Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Clownin said:
3 years later and this post is still relevant
If by relevant you mean completely wrong, then yes, it is relevant.
The change to the regression ruin was one of the greatest changes the devs have ever done and i think is a prime example of buffing something that was weak with high level players, while nerfing that same thing that was too strong against low level players.
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@Astel said:
As the title says, what is your opinion about Gearhead? I haven't seen this perk even after its rework in 6.7.0
Its pretty good. I'd use it over other stuff if the survivor aura didn't blend in so hard with the generator making it really hard to sometimes see it. But in general i think that is a visibility problem in general, and i don't know why their colorblind modes don't make them different colors.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
With upcoming nerf to MfT, i believe we have most healthy meta ever. All of these perks have some pros and cons which makes them fair and balanced.
The game is only healthy if both sides can run no perks and have a 50/50 chance of winning at high mmr. That is not the case currently.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593091#Comment_3593091
I addressed that. I think that at best what you're talking about is a wholly separate endeavour, not a necessary component of any meta shakeup. There are different metas - that feel different to play, that are differently healthy for the game - within the concept of players gravitating towards one type of perk.
What you're arguing for is a completely different goal than the goal of 6.1.0, which was to change the specific meta explicitly because people were sick of seeing the literal exact same perks constantly. The Ruin/Undying meta was meaningfully different to the CoB/Eruption/Overcharge meta, which was also meaningfully different to the Pain Res/Pop meta. They're all slowdown, but you can't say they're all literally the exact same in terms of experience quality and game health.
I feel like you think that anyone who isn't you is all the same person. I'm making the argument that the original goal of 6.1.0 was bad. Not that it failed. And no, the metas are not "meaningfully different" they are literally the same meta, with the same perks that are functionally the same, they just do the thing very slightly differently.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593083#Comment_3593083
It's a bad problem to solve until the usage is sustained for so long that people start complaining and asking for it to be solved.
But you still are missing the point. The usage hasn't changed. All we did was go from ruin undying to cob/overcharge/eruption to pain res/pop. Its all still functionally the same.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593072#Comment_3593072
Considering the problem was usage, yes, it is very much balancing around usage.
The problem they wanted to fix is that the meta consisted of the same perks for multiple years. The complaints they were acting on were about how this was stale.
The way you fix that is to nerf what is currently being used and buff things that aren't being used.
Wesker hasn't even existed for as long as the stale meta that people were complaining about, so he's not an example of something that would also require this drastic effort. When we reach four straight years of Wesker having a crazy high pickrate, maybe, but we're not there right now so he's not analogous to the situation 6.1.0 aimed to address.
There are two big problems with the way people talk about 6.1.0, in my experience.
First, we have what I've just gone over: People have very much forgotten why it happened and what it aimed to achieve, which leads to criticisms revolving around how the devs "arbitrarily" decided to nerf things just because they were popular, missing the wider context of the actual not-at-all arbitrary reason why they felt compelled to do that. 6.1.0 was not a normal balance patch and the reasons for its choices are not broadly applicable to the game's ongoing balance, it was a specific solution to a very specific problem.
Second, we have a bit of a hardline stance about what counts as changing the meta, which is where we're at with your last few sentences. People seem to think that a meta only counts as changed if the kind of perks people run radically change, which is a bit silly in my view. Killers are always going to run slowdown even when it isn't the best option (which frankly I'd argue is the case now) because it's just easier + more convenient than the alternatives, and survivors are always going to run primarily chase perks because conventional wisdom is that chasing is the only fun/skilful part of the game.
(There's a secondary fallacy in your post about how killers MUST run slowdown to stand a chance, which isn't true, but I don't want to derail too much. Same for the survivor side.)
To try and pin the success or failure of a meta shakeup on this seems like a doomed venture. It should be enough to look at the specific perks, and how they're used. So, let's do that: Did 6.1.0 change the specific perks used, and is there a clear distinction between how they were used before and how they're used now?
Yes. Moreso on the survivor side, where only a handful of perks are even literally the same and there's a distinction between the ultra-heal meta and the stay-injured meta, but even on the killer side there's a difference. That difference isn't entirely positive in all situations - the CoB/Overcharge/Eruption meta was pretty miserable, after all - but it is very easily noticed.
Personally, I'd go so far as to argue that the killer shakeup was still a success because far more perks and builds (and even killers themselves) are viable versus before, but it's fair to keep the bounds of conversation just to what people are actually choosing to use rather than what they could use.
You're right that people are always going to gravitate to slowdown and chase perks. You are wrong, in my opinion, to identify that as a problem or a necessary component to alter for a meta shakeup. The game is more nuanced than that, and not all examples of slowdown or chase perks are equal in experience or usage. Metas are more granular and specific than just 'slowdown' and 'chase'.
Usage is a bad problem to solve is my point. And you also didn't address that FUNCTIONALITY of the meta was still the same and still remains the same since the games release. Until that is changed any "meta shakeup" they do is pointless because it results in everyone playing the same.
When people ask for a meta shakeup, they want something to fundamentally be different about the game.
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@GoofyGooberRock said:
I've been seeing more and more games now where killers are tunneling hard at 5-4 gens and they would purposely stand and face camp the survivor for them to hop off the hook only to be tunneled down very hard
even when you try to take body blocks for the survivor they would down you and ignore you going for the person they were tunneling hard for
Make it not possible and rebalance the game around it.
Tunneling is required against high level survivors because the game simply goes too fast for them. Better would be to make it impossible to "get someone out early" and then balance the game around 4 survivors being in the game longer.
My proposal has always been:
- Scrap the current AFC mechanic (you aren't going to need it)
- Make kindred base kit and make it work through blindness.
- Remove the ability to 4%, all it does is lead to griefing, or RNG causing games to go longer than they should, or for killers to lose due to RNG.
- Rework the luck mechanic now that 4% is removed (maybe tie it to items or skill checks or something)
- All survivors now share the 1st hook state, and only go into second stage after the team's first hook state has been removed.
- Basically, this means that in order to kill a survivor you have to go through 6 hook states minimum before you can eliminate them.
- This also means if you hard tunnel someone, you have to hook them 6 times to kill them
- Camping means you need to wait 6 hook states (a full 6 minutes)
- This basically eliminates camping and tunneling as a strategy to win, because camping for 6 minutes against a team with kindred is going to easily cost you the game. That gives 3 survivors plenty of time to finish 5 gens, 99 the gates, and then go in a for a couple of save attempts
- Only the FIRST hook state is shared, after that survivors each have 2 individual hook states. This means that 1 survivor can't cause you to die on your first hook, you'll always get at least 2 chances.
- Now that camping and tunneling are not effective strategies for winning, now you need to make them not possible for killers who want to be toxic. And you do that by doing this:
- Remove the basekit borrowed time
- Survivors now gain a new status effect called "Ethereal" for 30 seconds after being hooked.
- While a survivor is ethereal:
- They see the aura of all other survivors
- They are invisible to the killer
- They make no noise
- They make no scratch marks
- They have no collision with other players or killer objects (like traps) (no hitbox)
- They are unable to perform any action other that heal or be healed.
- They move at 200% movement speed.
- Basically, they get spirit's power.
- Deactivates in endgame.
- The idea here is that, after being unhooked, you have plenty of time to go run to a teammate away from the killer and get healed so you can get back into the game. The killer CAN'T tunnel you, because they don't know where you went, and you can't abuse that to body block for the person who just saved you. On top of that, the killer now knows that you effectively have a 30 second timeout where you can't be working on gens. This means the killer knows they have a little time to go chase someone else and they KNOW you can't be hard tunneling a gen without getting healed because you can't do anything else anyway.
Then after all that, if facecamping is still a problem (it shouldn't be) but if it is, you add in this mechanic:
- If the killer stands within 8 meters of a hook, the survivor is teleported to a hook that is closest to the teammate that is furthest away from the killer. (Basically, if the killer camps you, you get teleported away, and by the time the killer gets to you, your teammate should have unhooked you, giving you that ethereal status meaning the killer can't tunnel you.
From there, you probably need to buff killers in some way, probably by doing something to gen speeds or an early trial warmup to get the game started. etc.
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@jesterkind said:
It wasn't senseless, it made perfect sense and is very easy to understand.
6.1.0 was a patch aimed at addressing complaints about a stale meta. The only way to guarantee doing that is to make meta picks less appealing and to make not meta picks more appealing. If the end result of the change is that you still want to run it consistently, that patch would have failed.
I wouldn't mind seeing Ruin buffed up a bit to be more useful, especially now that we're over a year past the point where its prevalence (among others obviously) was causing complaints, but the actual nerf it got can't be too much for the goal of the patch. I'm not saying I want the perk to be useless, but it being useless isn't a mark of failure either.
You don't fix the meta by randomly nerfing perks that aren't OP. Thats balancing based on usage not actual effectiveness. Does that mean they should also nerf wesker into the ground because people play him a lot? Its because he is fun.
On top of that, doing this won't ever actually fix the meta, because the meta is still the same, they just shifted around which perks you use, but functionally the meta still is the same. Killers still run 3-4 gen defense perks, and survivors still run 3-4 second chance perks. Like, look at the killer perk changes.
- Super old ruin (the skill check one) and pop were meta
- Then they nerfed ruin (to the regression one) and we just had pop for a while
- Then they added undying and it was ruin undying
- Then they nerfed undying But people still used ruin undying.
- Then they added pain res and it was pain res/DMS
- Then it was thana for a hot minute when it was buffed before it got quickly nerfed again.
- Then they nerfed pop and DMS and buffed eruption then it became CoB/Eruption/Overcharge
- Then they nerfed that and changed pain res again and it was pain res/dms
- Then they buffed pop up a bit giving us the current meta of pain res pop.
Sprinkle in the fact that most killers are running some kind of aura reading and corrupt/lethal and every "meta" is the same.
What changed there? Nothing, every single time the meta was exactly the same, you slow down the gens as much as possible with your perks, all that changed was which perks you use but the functionality of those perks was the same regardless.
Survivors have a similar progression from old DS to Dead hard to a few things in between all the way to MFT and when MFT gets nerfed when we will start to see the same meta play out with just different perks.
The problem here is the fundamental game mechanics. Nerfing or buffing random perks isn't going to change the meta while the core gameplay loop exists such that playing with no perks is not balanced. Both sides should be able to play completely perkless with equally skilled players and get a 50% win rate. But as it stands that is not the case because killers HAVE to take tons of gen perks to slow down the gens because basekit they just go too fast and regression is too terrible. In return survivors HAVE to take a ton of perks that give them second chances and make chases last as long as possible because with all that gen defense they can't basekit finish gens fast enough before a killer can hard tunnel someone out.
If you want a real meta shakeup, you need to change the base game, changing perks won't change anything.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Making the game a 1 v 3 will always top getting a hook on everyone,there has never been any incentive to spread hooks.This stuck out to me. Its true. But the part I love is that these humans need an incentive to enjoy a game. Do killers not enjoy the chase? Is the 3-4k all your tunnel vision can see? That cannot be a fun and exciting way to play and be enjoyable everytime. I've tried tunneling a few games, and it's boring and quite lacking in any sort of skillful approach.
I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong or 'I love tunneling! so fun!' Cool! You're still not skilled at the game. You're still doing something you know is pretty crappy to other people. But in this world, that's humans!
Hope I run into any of you. You'll chase me til the gens all pop and Ill enjoy the moonwalk out. Especially a tunneling Blight. What a joke they've been lately lol
Humans enjoy winning. And if you watch this game at high levels of play, survivors also hard tunnel the gens too and yet the double standard is that people only complain when killers do it.
You know what would be the actual best outcome here? Is if the devs made it so that the most effective strategy for both sides to play the game and WIN the game was also the most FUN way to play the game. Game design 101 will tell you that players will ALWAYS optimize the fun out of your game. So the goal should be to make the most effective thing to do, also the most fun thing to do. But for some reason the devs here are super afraid of ever changing anything in any meaningful way.
This is why every patch we get small tweaks for 1 or 2 killers in a roster of 30. Or why 5 perks get changed when we have hundreds. And even those are just number changes that realistically should take a dev 2 minutes to change: "yay now trickster moves 4.6 instead of 4.4, that was such a hard change to make!"
And then once every year or 2 they make a "big" patch that "changes everything" in hopes of a "meta shakeup" when they don't actually change anything, all that actually happens is people change the perks they use, but they still use perks that are functionally the same, they just do it slightly differently than before. I.E. all metas were:
Killer meta:
Pop/Ruin turns into Ruin + Undying turns into Corrupt/Pain res turns into CoB/Eruption/Overcharge turns into Pentimento turns into Pain res/Pop
Survivor meta:
Sprint Burst/Spine Chill/Resilience turns into Decisive Strike/Dead Hard/Unreakable turns into Dead Hard/Off the record turns into MFT/Resilience turns into Dead hard/MFT
Killers focus on delaying the game as long as possible with their 4 perks and survivors focus on giving them as many second changes as possible.
If they want to make small changes like that, they need to be patching like every week. Or they can take the DotA approach and make changes to everything every couple of months. At least then we'd have some real changes happening. But as it stands now, they spend 3 months, make a couple number tweaks, then never touch the thing they tweaked for the next 2 years.
And the devs wonder why people have such visceral reactions to every buff/nerf they do, and it is because they take eons to actually change anything, so nerfing something just means its gonna be useless for the next 2 years. Or buffing it means we'll have to see it every game for the next 2 years.
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@treystar679X said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0YBHUKPZ5WOQ/5bc2fd3f-f400-4a2e-b7c4-6a6c96eced26.jpeg
I CAN buy the game, and the Silent Hill edition on my PS5, but what I don’t know is whether or not I’m directly buying the PS5 version of the game, or just the PS4 version. Any help or comments would be appreciated.
It says PS4 on it. That's the PS4 version.
The one box says PS4, the other one is explaining that "this game is playable on ps5 but some features might...." because its the ps4 version.
Personally, i would suggest buying the game on steam rather than console. Cross progression hasn't come out yet, and even if it does Sony tends to be the biggest holdout to that kind of thing.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
IMO the Devs want to avoid that Killers run Endgame-Builds. Because, unlike Survivors, Killers can actually do this. Endgame-Builds for Killers are probably the most boring things so far and the Devs worked against that on other occasions (You can escape with a RBT when you get one once all Gens are done, old Freddy was basically used as Endgame-Killer for 90% of the games).
And they probably want to avoid that Killers run around with a Build which does nothing for the majority of the match and just get their Kills in Endgame. E.g. Batteries Included, NOED, No Way Out, Remember Me. Nobody can say that this would be a fun build to play or play against, when the Killer is basically perkless before Gens are done and then runs around with 124% Movement Speed and Instadown.
That's not bad for the game. Different builds do different things. If you run an endgame build like that, you know what you aren't running? Pop, pain res, corrupt etc. So you in theory will complete the early and middle game much faster. Such a build is a high risk high reward for the killer.
That is part of the job of the survivors. If the killer isn't running all the stuff, and they realize the gens are going much faster, they can take the extra time to go and find all the dull totems to cleanse them so noed never comes into play. It actually creates different gameplay strategies then "rush gens as fast as possible" and "hard tunnel out a survivor as fast as possible"
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590807#Comment_3590807
good perks are not situational. good perks are consistently high value every single game. the perk that are not consistent are usually perks that have -broken- effects like Adrenaline, Decisive strike, Hope etc.
Correct, that is my point. The vast vast majority of perks in this game are situational for both sides. The ones that are not, are the only 5-10 good ones on either side.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590807#Comment_3590807
Killer's perks are not situational
The vast majority of perks are situational.
But in general, yeah, its a 4v1, the 1's perks by definition should be stronger.
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@Tinay said:
It's not a recent chapter, so it should be on sale, or there is another reason why it's not?
Probably part of the deal, in terms of netflix is probably treated as if it was brand new to the game. So i'd guess they can't put it on sale.
Also, i believe sales on licensed stuff is always up to the license holder, usually those things don't go on sale.
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@GoofyGooberRock said:
been missing them more and more lately as now it feels like the killer can hit when you're a thousand miles away and female window vaulting is always being broken for some reason
@Ayodam said:
1.) Your hit box drags behind you when you’re running.
2.) Killer’s ping is prioritized with hits. So if they appear to hit you on their screen (even if the hit didn’t land on your screen; I.e. they have bad ping) you’ll be damaged. No, it does not work for survivor (low ping doesn’t help you avoid hits). However, grabs are supposedly favored by survivor ping.
Dead by Daylight is an asymmetrical multiplayer horror game in which four resourceful survivors face off against one ruthless killer. Developed and published by Behaviour Interactive. This subreddit is not owned, operated, or moderated by Behaviour Interactive.tl;dr - when it comes to picking out of things that feel crappy, "getting hit by something I dodged on my end but might have avoided if I picked the worse option" is significantly less problematic than "i have to predict the future on every single attack ever"
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590327#Comment_3590327
Slight correction here, your hitbox does not drag behind you as you're running. It is exactly where your survivor is.
What actually happens is because of latency, the Killer always sees you (your actual Survivor) a fraction of a second behind where you actually are. They aren't swinging at an invisible hitbox that got lost and is not connected to you. On their screen, they are actually hitting you. This is because it takes time for your system to tell the server where you are, then for the server to tell the Killer where you are. We do some trickery to minimize this and project where you're going to be, but there's no way to eliminate it entirely.
This is a problem with any online game, but especially one like DBD where one person is chasing another. The person chasing will always see themselves as closer, but the person being chased always sees themselves as further. Then to add to that, purely by nature of how the game is played, many hits come down to super close calls where you just barely hit someone before they can vault or drop a pallet.
In any case, I'm not quite sure what we're referring to as old vaults in this instance since the vaults currently are the same as they have been for a few years. If we go back any further (pre-movement extrapolation & dedicated servers), the latency discrepancy would be even larger and even more Killer-favoured.
I'm guessing what they mean is the hitbox while running/injured. because the survivor leans forward when they are injured, and lean forward a bit more when running hitboxes end up like this:
Images above are taken from this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/158j9t5/dbd_hitboxes_visual_guide_detailed_explanation_on/
which is honestly a solid thread for talking about latency in DBD and why it works the way it does.
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@KILL3RStoney said:
Ok so to start with, I’ve been playing DBD for the past week and all matches I’ve encountered tunnelling Killers. Even when one gen has been done! the fact that killers moan as an excuse by saying that survivors are being toxic. As long as the killers are happy right!
Survivors tunnel gens, and then get mad when the killer tunnels back. Its pretty sad TBH.
The reality is though, there is this double standard where, when the killer plays "efficiently" it is toxic. But if the survivors play "efficiently" its "git gud scrub" or "just pressure gens 5head"
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@Rudjohns said:
Without Buckle Up, FTP is only useful in 2 situations
-The killer is hard tunneling and you want to heal the unhooked survivor so they can have more of a chance and buy more time for the team
-The killer has Make Your Choice
That's how perks work, every perk is relatively situational, the problem with these "meta" perks is that they have value every game and everyone is so used to it.
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@sluc16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590264#Comment_3590264
Are you kidding me? Like trapper's power is not weak enough, you also have to be super precise or it won't work? That's lame
I am not kidding you, and yes it is stupid.
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@sluc16 said:
I'm fairly new to killer, always been main surv. I was playing trapper, I had a trap right on a vault, a survivor vaulted and nothing happened, like if the trap wasn't even there
If you put the trap too close to the vault, they can just vault past it.
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@KammieLoren said:
When are you going to stop the killers camping the hook, it’s not like they’re not already completely overpowered compared to any of the survivors!. You’ve given the killers one hit kill basically, like why??. You’re making it impossible for survivors to even think about escaping!. No one wants it easy, it’s all about the challenge and showing off skill but right now it’s not far off impossible !!. Everyday I’m hatIng the game more!!. WRAITH iS THE WEAKEST KILLER OF THEM ALL… take away his invisibility and see how many ppl play him as killer then!!. Guarantee you NO ONE WILL!.
- Take away his invisibility and see how many ppl play him as killer then.
Yeah, nobody would, because then he literally would have no power. That is his power....
That's like saying "take away trappers traps and nobody would play him"
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589769#Comment_3589769
My understanding was they were only using the killswitch on things that impacted a significantly large enough percentage of matches. There was that one patch where the Twins were actually bugged unplayable (sometimes on swap to or from Victor it would lock the camera in the ground), and they didn't killswitch it when they should have. Similarly with Pinhead in another patch (I think Survivors couldn't play and were perma incapped?), and when Merciless Storm was regressing ~80% of a gen on a failed check where they weren't killswitched.
If what you allege is true I would like a link to that claim (only bannable things are killswitched). The picture (of Mandy's post) in the OP clearly states 'hugtech' is a bug exploit (technically just a bug, but its intentional usage means the player is exploiting it), and with the game rules they list exploiting bugs for a competitive advantage or gaining what isn't normally possible to be against the game rules (see exact text in my prior post).
It was mentioned by a dev at some point when someone asked why people weren't getting banned for abusing some bugs but not abusing others. An example i think was the legion bug that allowed you to infinite stack mending. People were banned for exploiting that bug, but not another similar bug, and the reason was because at that time killswitch did not exist, so they banned people for it. Now "if something is ban worthy" they can kill switch it.
Obviously for stuff like the flashlight locker thing they also kill switched flashlights, but they couldn't kill switch getting a flashlight in a chest, so people who still exploited it were banned.
Found a few recent examples here:
@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129986#Comment_3129986
If we're banning for an exploit with a perk (which is likely not to happen any longer as if we feel something is a big enough issue to do that, we would use the kill switch), we do list it in the issues in the game rules, and an in-game news notice would also be given.
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373596#Comment_3373596
WE will not ban for bugs in the game without first notifying the community that this action is being taken. It's highly unlikely we would need to do this now, as we have the Kill Switch, which means if something is highly abusable it's able to be temporarily removed from the game, without needing to ban players!
Basically if they consider something an "exploit" that is abusable and "gives an unfair competitive advantage" such that it breaks the rules, they would kill switch it and not ban for it.
Therefore, blight is not kill switched, thus hug tech is fine to use.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588816#Comment_3588816
Is Chucky supposed to swing when he collides with a wall? He appeared to be working as intended (when I checked him out). Blight is designed to bump when you rush at an object, and aiming down is not meant to change the collision of objects, making it clearly not working as intended.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588815#Comment_3588815
I'm not sure where you are getting "substantial unfair advantage" from. This is the game rules text:
Exploit bugs, errors in design, or undocumented features to gain access to what otherwise would not be available or to obtain a competitive advantage
The specific phrasing they use here is "competitive advantage", which the bug exploit most certainly grants, as well as "what otherwise would not be available".
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589303#Comment_3589303
My understanding is when they 'fixed' his crotch height camera to be the other head instead, it disconnected the 2 checks they had programmed for collision. 1 was connected to the physical location, and 1 was connected to the camera. When they were they same spot, it was (mostly) working correctly. When they attempted to fix it (after moving the camera), they 'duct-taped' on the second check, and called it a day more or less.
Honestly reverting Blight to his old crotch height camera (which fixed most of his bumping bugs at the cost of being slightly annoying to play) would probably be for the best.
Devs have made it clear in the past, that now that they have the killswitch, things that are "exploits" that can be killswitched aren't bannable. If they thought this was an exploit, they would killswitch blight until it was fixed.
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@MrSquiggles said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NBQKS88W7FLA/screenshot-1.png
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/321750/thoughts-on-blight-tech (Found in this post)
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitch, or use elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers, in a way that gives a substantial unfair advantage to players using it." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit)
So, i said this before in a similar thread, but basically there are a couple of possibilities here:
- Mandy was wrong. This is entirely possible, as Mandy is not a dev but a community coordinator who is responsible for taking information from us, and giving it to devs, and vice versa. Mistakes happen, and it isn't that big of a deal.
- Someone Mandy talked to was wrong. You can talk to one dev, and they say its not working as intended, but then maybe they went to the person who is most knowledgeable about blight, and they said "no this is actually intended" and they didn't give the info back to us.
- It turns out this is impossible to fix without completely destroying blight, so they decided that they aren't going to fix it.
- They changed their mind after doing testing, and found that it caused more issues than it solved, and decided to not fix it and keep it in as working as intended.
Now comes the most important question for YOU though. How would YOU fix hug tech? The reason that hug tech exists, is because blight has some immunity to bouncing off of thing when he starts a dash really close to something. This is something that DID NOT EXIST on the PTB for blight. And do you know what happened? Blight would constantly get stuck on the tiniest little rocks or cracks or slight bumps in the geometry of the map, that you often wouldn't be able to actually use your power in many places.
In light of that, how would you fix the hug tech issue, which itself is caused by the fix for the issue of blight bouncing off every tiny surface, without reintroducing the original bug/oversight/poor design/issue?
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588898#Comment_3588898
You don't get 4 downs to build up 8 stacks. Good killers hit multiple people to build up pressure without always downing them. You cannot be committing to every single chase where you get a first hit.
You also do not go for long shots with demo shreds unless the survivor is corralled in some way since out in the open it is very easy to dodge and the correct play is to go up to them for an M1 if in this situation.
Please, just stop, you don't know how to play those killers, what any comp player play them and you'll see the difference, they very rarely go for m1s.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588946#Comment_3588946
It could work. Do you think it's something that BHVR would consider doing though?
Doubtful. In general i think they would be worried about population size at that point. But i think basically they have 2 options:
Option 1: Just add voice chat to the game and be done with it
Option 2: Split up the queues.
I don't think they want to do option 1, but if they aren't willing to split the queues up they have to do something to bridge the gap, and voice chat is about the only thing that will. The only problem with that, is that you can't guarantee that your team uses it, and you have a ton of other problems like toxic chat you need to deal with. So that's why i think splitting the queues would be better.
Most other online games do this already by have an unranked and a ranked mode. For the larger games they also often have an extra split in ranked for solo queue vs teams as well. For example DotA/LoL/CS2 have all of this.
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@Foempticol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588946#Comment_3588946
"Killer good, survivor bad"
You killer mains always want easy matches, it's pathetic. Survivors may as well start on the hook at the beginning of a match and immediately die.
Where on earth in there did you read "i'm a killer main who wants easy matches"
Am i missing something here?
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@CatnipLove said:
Are gens too quick in a match with super optimal survivors in a squad with comms? Yes.
Are gens too quick in a match with average survivors including solo queue? No.
Therein lies the problem. How do you slow down the most optimal squads without making matches for average survivors even harder? Survivor is both the strongest and weakest role in the game. Making it really difficult to balance. For example, if BHVR makes the BNP weak enough that four together isn't as strong, what will one do when an average solo queue player brings it with them? Next to nothing. That's not great for an extremely rare add-on.
By splitting them up into different queues.
Casual match:
- You can only play with solo queue or a single friend
- No MMR/matchmaking
- Game is balanced as it is now (maybe even with some buffs to survivors as a whole, basekit kindred?)
Ranked match:
- You cany only play with a squad of 4
- Shows your MMR to you and other players.
- Game is balanced such that survivors are more nerfed and/or killers are buffed (maybe like, survivors have to repair 6 gens instead, or gens take 100 seconds, or something like that), or maybe the killer win condition is to just kill 1 survivor, or get 6 hooks or something like that.
Now you balance both modes different in terms of "basekit" for both sides, and your problem is solved. Give killers a 2x bloodpoint bonus for playing the ranked mode.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yes, it was overkill. It was a Double-Nerf, which should show that it was overkill. In general, double-nerfing things just shows that they wanted to get rid of them. (See Ruin)
In my opinion, Iron Will would have been totally fine if it would still reduce Grunts of Pain by 100%, but makes perma-exhausted. This would mean that Survivors would have to decide if they want to have Stealth OR Exhaustion-Perks. Which would be a fair Trade-Off IMO.
And also would give information to the Killer. Survivor Silent --> they wont use any Exhaustion-Perk at all. Survivor makes sound --> They probably have an Exhaustion-Perk.
I also dont think that Iron Will would be as good as before. Killer Instinct gets added to so many things nowadays. And well, Ultlimate Weapon exists, which makes stealth even less viable.
The funny thing with the ruin nerf too was that they nerfed ruin, so nobody ran it, then everyone switched to gen kick 3-gen builds with old eruption.
So they traded a pretty healthy meta strategy that revolved around ruin and undying, which made it cleansable, as well as requiring you to actually pressure multiple survivors/gens and not camp/tunnel in order to get value out of them. For the meta where you pick the nearest 3 gen, kick those 3 gens constantly, hook a survivor in the middle of it, then hard camp them.
Smart move.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586780#Comment_3586780
But killers like demo are not going to m2 someone at point blank, they would rather m1 with 8 stacks of stbfl and cut the surv's distance gained by like 40%. A demo m2 has literally 0 value out in the open unlike wesker and nemi.
The point is, if you are playing those killers right, you aren't going to be be "point blank" that often, and you'll want to go for longer range shots as they vault something. Additionally, you have to BUILD UP those 8 stacks, which takes 8 hits, which is 4 downs. By the time you get 4 downs the game is probably already over one way or the other if you are going for these m1 hits.
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@BlueMoonBRUHMOMENT said:
Or maybe because the last universal perk to be released (shattered hope) was preceived negatively.
Rightfully so though because it's a dogshit perk
@UnusedAccount said:
Shattered Hope 2.0
That's because shattered hope should have always been basekit, then they could have actually made boons useful outside of the healing one that they have since made at less useful (still viable but heavily overshadowed by other perks these days). And actually make them a "survivor hex perk" high risk, high reward.
Except now we are stuck with either, survivor perks that are way too OP (old COH). Or ones that are completely useless (dark theory)
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@ElionTron10 said:
It is impossible to repair a generator without a teammate going down, in a solo q team the teammates go in 2 sec down before the first generator is repaired. The perk is overpowered, on killers like Nurse, Spirit, Blight. If you're going to nerf MFT, then you should nerf pain resonance in return. In 60% of the matches its 5 hooks before the first gen is finished
You realize that if you could "repair a generator without a teammate going down" the killer would get 2 hooks and then the game would be over?
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
This is more of a gen spawn problem than SM problem. Any Killer can use their power and equip 4 regress perks and hold games for long time if they are very dedicated.
This calls for 3-gen issue solving, not SM being bad as usual.
How exactly would you propose they "fix" 3-genning? And, if they actually did fix it, would you also be in favor of evening out the game? Because by design, the killer is extremely weak at the start of the game, and gets stronger as there are less and less gens to patrol. That is a fundamental purposeful design choice. So, would you be in favor of buffing killers at the start? Perhaps with an early trial warmup phase (like the old scott jund suggestion)?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586780#Comment_3586780
Spirit phase attack is M1. She's still get the benefit. Blight can M1 then use the weapon cool down buff for M2 to shorten the distance even more. Its not like they need the perk. But aint doing s is wrong.
On M2 killers, If they miss M2 trying to save STBFL stacks, its on killers' fault. Not "nah STBFL isnt good on Demo because I miss alot of M2" on another topic. Its the lack of counter to the perk (by Obsession taking a hit to reduce stacks) against actual good M2 killer players.
You have it backwards.
First of all, there is no spirit in the world that is any good that is using STBFL, she doesn't need it, its a waste on her.
Blight does not need it and should not be using it. A GOOD blight, is hitting m2s from super far away, if you are m1ing as a blight into m2 you are taking too long to do the m1 and aren't a good blight.
For the others, you have it backwards. You don't want to be m1ing at all, you want to be m2ing, so if you have STBFL you aren't getting any stacks anyway, and if you are, you are playing the killer wrong.
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@timetodohottakes said:
I know Sloppy makes healing slower and regress it when canceled on a basic attack and it's applied instantly but....why no one uses Gift of pain? I know it requires hook RNG and such but...it literally does the same thing while also debuffing the survivor once they heal, back to healthy but they now do everything slower until you start a chase again and injure them, shouldn't killers use Gift of pain over sloppy? why is sloppy King while Gift is extremely superior?????
Because it requires you to hook the survivor. Sloppy works every time you hit them. Meaning it is much more effective for hit and run. The other thing with GOP is that you basically have to ignore the person you just hooked to get full value, and often times they'll tank a hit on purpose to remove the debuff and call it a day.
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@BigKuhfahl said:
I simply want to talk about the whole 3 Gen Tactic where the Killer protects three generations and does nothing else since I find it terribly dull and demonstrates little to no skill in the match. Personally, I see these kinds of matches back-to-back most of the time these days. I'm simply curious what the community feels about this type of playstyle in the game. I don't play like this when I play Killer, but I don't expect anyone to play like this in a video game; however, I will say I find it weak and uninteresting.
How frequently do you participate in these kinds of matches?
How frequently do you DC or die on the first hook?
Do you believe there should be something in place to accommodate this type of play?
Overall, how do you feel when you play in these matches?
I would be happy to see 3 gen go as a strategy IF the game wasn't so front loaded. When you do the first chase against any decent team you WILL lose 2-3 gens in that first chase. The game is VERY frontloaded right now, where it either super snowballs against the killer, or the killer drags the game out forever on a 3 gen with 1-2 gens remaining.
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@Fërgesë said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586780#Comment_3586780
Totally forgot about NWTH. Didn't you remember the outcry for this perk?
The only real outcry on it was the fact that people though it was bugged then the devs said that the "bugged" part of it was intended. So people haven't really said anything else about it.
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@not_Queef said:
I don't think Pain Res is fine. It feels awful to see large chunks of your gen progress disappear in a manner that you can do absolutely nothing about. Even worse when the killer's other three slowdowns kick in.
I would prefer that it simply blocked the gen for 30 seconds, similar to Deadlock. Technically this would be a buff since 30 seconds is longer than it would take to re-repair the missing 25% progress, but survivors wouldn't have to endure the psychological impact of such massive gen regression. That way you can leave the gen and maybe do a totem, a chest, go and take the chase, maybe get a flashlight save. But as it is, it is even more imperative that you just sit mindlessly holding M1 for even longer.
It's not so bad when it's occasional, but Pain Res is in every single match and it's really making the game a miserable experience, especially since the matchmaking pits 200 hour teammates against 5000 hour Blights and Nurses.
Gen blocking perks are much healthier for the game than gen regression perks.
I mean, if the meta didn't REQUIRE a killer to take 3-4 slowdown perks to not lose 3 gens in the first chase, it wouldn't be as big of a deal if they nerfed them.
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@Fërgesë said:
What perks are next for the chopping block? Pain Resonance? Sloppy Butcher? Unrelenting?
Can't wait.
Both perks are fine. NWTH is much better than UW and STBFL is really only good on the killers that need the most help. On nurse/blight/spirit it aint doing #########. On demo/neme/wesker they want to use m2 anyway, so only bad players rely on STBFL. But on trapper/myers/doctor/Deathslinger? Those killers that need it the most are the ones that benefit from it.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586293#Comment_3586293
That's true but UW is more convenient. It's not overpowered but definitely more convenient to trigger. You don't need to be around a survivor to activate it, after all.
UW is a good perk because it's easy information (essential part of the game), useful on most killers, has no significant downsides (other than seeing the position rather than the aura of survivors), is easy to trigger (unlike Floods of Rage) and it is a counter to the most popular survivor perk. A perk that is used as a crutch rather than a learning tool.
I have tested a few blindess builds over the past couple months and they always worked best in chase. Because many survivors really rely on that one perk and basically run around like headless chicken when it doesn't work. Funnily enough, the unhooking part of blindness wasn't that big of an issue (with small exceptions).
Its not more convenient than something like Nowhere to hide.
Think of it this way:
With UW:
- You have to check a locker, something you probably don't want to be doing anyway outside of 2 killers (which btw UW sucks on huntress because her TR is tiny), wasting time
- It has a 30 second duration then AFTER that the 30 second cooldown ticks, meaning it basically has a 1 minute cooldown, because once you use it, a survivor screams and you go after them. Rarely do you care if the other 3 survivors scream at that point, meaning effectively a 1 minute cooldown.
- The survivor SCREAMS meaning they know the killer knows were they are, giving them a warning.
- It only makes the survivor scream showing you where they were, not where they are. If survivors pre-run forget about it, and if survivors attempt to hide, walking movement speed is 2.26 m/s. Meaning that a survivor could easily walk 14 meters before the killer gets to them that's nearly half a terror radius and gives them plenty of hiding spots. And then if you don't find someone oh well, no perk for probably another 45 seconds.
- Blindness as a status effect is good against solo queue survivors, but useless against SWF. And i would argue that the entire blindness mechanic needs to be completely reworked rather than nerfing the perk because of it.
Now compare that with something like Nowhere to hide:
- You have to kick a gen, something you usually want to do, not wasting time.
- The perk has NO COOLDOWN. Meaning i can go around kick a gen, see noone, know that gen will regress a bit, and go to another gen and kick that one.
- It shows you survivors around a gen, meaning that, as you approach a gen, survivors tend to hide, you kick the gen, and they are likely still nearby.
- Even if they aren't nearby the duration and distance is quite large, being 24 meters means you are probably going to find someone, or at least if you don't, now you know where they AREN'T at, and you get some gen regression because you KNOW they aren't nearby to stop the regression.
- It shows the survivors AURA meaning you know EXACTLY where they are.
- The survivor gets no warning that the perk is active on them (unless they have distortion, but distortion is limited unlike calm spirit)
- On high mobility killers like blight and nurse you can actually use it to pretty much see auras on most of the map.
The only thing that UW really has on NWTH is the blindness. But i'd trade that any day for the loop that NWTH creates. Where i can, goto a gen, kick it, know if a survivor is nearby, usually with enough time to either see where they sprinted away, or definitely see where they are hiding. If i see noone, then i can be confident i'll get some good regression in, and i can go to another gen and repeat the process till i find someone. NWTH basically makes hiding useless because it centralizes around the objective that survivors want to be doing. And it is great when paired with other gen kick perks.
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@Seraphor said:
Blindness is underated, particularly in a Windows of Opportunity meta.
But frankly, I wouldn't say UW is overpowered. It's a strong perk though. It could maybe do with a slight cooldown increase. 45s would still make it a very good perk.
45 seconds would give it a 1 minute 15 second cooldown. People keep forgetting that the cooldown is already 1 minute. Because you use it, then it "lasts" for 30 seconds, but then AFTER the 30 second duration is up THEN the cooldown ticks.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
A few reasons. The tracking it offers is too powerful for how easy it is to activate the perk and for how often the perk can be activated (the cooldown is too short). There's nothing wrong with the perk being easy to activate, but if that's the case then it shouldn't turn your terror radius into a moving detection zone for an entire 30 seconds. In that time you can basically cover the entire map and once it's over you only have to wait 30 seconds before it can be used again. You mentioned how the perk doesn't have very many limits/restrictions on its use and that's part of why it's too strong. It simply gives too much information for free and has a degree of reliability that no tracking perk should have.
The Blindness component of the perk is not a problem and does not need to be changed.
The tracking it provides is worse than every other tracking perk, especially nowhere to hide, which is much much better.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
The cooldown isn't long enough, that's it really.
The cooldown gives you a minute between uses. How is that not long enough?
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@Gastongard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585427#Comment_3585427
Not only shows you where everyone is inside your terror radius, but also give them blindness, how that is worse than every other aura perk, more knowing than WoO is the most used perk by survivors...
So i guess doctor is OP then? Since part of his power basically is UW on a shorter cooldown.
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@Gastongard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585387#Comment_3585387
Brother you are mentioning perks that all have a requirement, UW is literally FREE, the power of knowing where all survivors are almost all the time is stronger than any of those aura perks by itself, not even mentioning it denyes enterely things like door openings in a 1v1 scenario, but also, in your head every blight, nurse or wesker its just using this perk because how bad it is? c mon.
Kicking a gen is free, especially since the range is so far, i assure you that Nowhere to hide is far better as a tracking perk than UW is.
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@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585387#Comment_3585387
Here the main reason why us complain about Ultimate Weapon
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585151#Comment_3585151
Bbq : need to hook a survivor
Flood of Rage : need to hook a survivor on scourge hook
Nowhere to Hide : need to kick a gen
Lethal : active only for 9 second and after that boom become a support perk +2 second aura for others.
Ultimate Weapon : ......
Kicking a gen is skillful? What about the myriad of survivor perks that do the same kind of thing? Windows? You don't have to do anything to activate. So saying "you don't have to do anything skillful to activate it" isn't really a good reason as there is a ton of stuff in the game that works that way. Is coup a problem? After all you "activate it" by losing a gen, seems like it helps you when you are losing. What about fire up?
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@Gastongard said:
Its just simply not fair, and killers defending it are the equivalent to survivors defending MFT. Its that simple. As the comment above mentions, it should require you make something to earn it, not holding W to a locker and pressing space. The downside of making it hook-activated is that it would work as an improved BBQ, so what d the point of using BBQ, but again, having now a perk that can replace a whole bunch of tracking perks doesnt seem fair either.
How about this.
I am defending it, because i don't use it, because it is a terrible perk. Any of the aura tracking perks are far FAR better at doing what you want them to do.
- Lethal
- BBQ
- Nowhere to Hide
- Floods of Rage
All of these are far better perks, Lethal gets you into a chase immediately and is great when paired with some other aura reading (like the other perks above). BBQ shows you where to go next right after a hook saving you valuable time. Nowhere to hide shows you if someone is hiding nearby, simply by kicking a gen with nothing else required and when combined with Lethal lasts a really long time, usually enough to help in an early loop. Floods of rage is the best when chasing, because it can often help you win a chase by giving you free wall hacks for several seconds.
What does UW? It has a massively long cooldown of 60 seconds (yes 60 seconds not 30) because you use it, then in order for the 30 second cooldown to start ticking, it needs to wait out the duration of 30 seconds. Meaning you can use it once a minute. On top of that it only makes the survivor scream. It doesn't show their full aura. So many times i can use it, and end up not actually starting a chase with the survivor you found.
You know what perk is a much better tracking perk than UW? Thrilling Tremors. It has the same cooldown, and gives you the same information BBQ does, and on top that actually blocks some gens from getting rushed, preventing a survivor from working on the nearby gen as you pick up the survivor.
What does UW get you? At the beginning of the match it is worse than Lethal, in the middle of the match it is worse than every aura reading perk because it doesn't show exact location, and it has a long cooldown. The only real thing it does is give easy blindness. Which, i'll agree is annoying in solo queue, but i generally think blindness as a mechanic needs to be completely reworked.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584228#Comment_3584228
Name 1 map besides The Game.
Having a map spawn 4 long wall jungle gyms with a shack and a dumb main building are still pretty common.
This is where RNG is a problem. Sometimes you can have maps spawn 4 jungle gyms, other times you get for 4 TL walls. When really it should be more spread out. Imagine a square map like this:
This would be the ideal map layout basically.
You put something like a strong main building in the red circle, then the green circle is a shack, so they are opposite each other. Then you have a pallet gym in the yellow circle and a maybe a jungle gym in the blue circle.. Then each of the squares are your junk tiles and TL walls and 4 lanes. Basically, you have a couple of stronger structures, and then between them are the weaker ones.
The big problem though is, sometimes you can have a map like the above spawn and everything is relatively fine.
Other times you can end up with shack into jungle gym with the windows facing each other into a main building into another jungle gym. And with setups like that you just can't possibly win as a killer unless the survivors throw hard.
Then on the other side, you can have no strong structures spawn and you get main building into TL wall into Junk tile into TL wall into shack into deadzone into TL wall into another deadzone where basically half the map has nothing and you just die immediately.
This is why in general i think they either:
A) Do away with RNG spawns entirely and make every map work like Dead dog.
B) Normalize the RNG so that you always get the exact same number of pallets and the strong structures aren't able to spawn next to other strong structures.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Now with upcoming MFT nerf, i am seeing more people are using these 2 perks. Probably people are trying to adept new meta.
Your thoughts are on these perks? They are fine or you dislike these perks as well?
Both are fine.
Lithe means you can't fast vault without activating it, so you can't loop efficiently. Meaning, you'll either burn your lithe early, or you'll burn a pallet early.
Sprint burst means you have to walk in order to not activate it. Slowing you down. Sure, you could always 99 it, but then you can't do anything at all (not even fall from a decent height) or you have it ready again. Additionally, it always activates right at the very start of a chase, making it much easier to play around. See 2 people on a gen and one of them sprint bursts away? Guess you know which one you are chasing.