Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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Balance mode wont be balanced at all until solo-cwf gap and killer compensation get adressed.
And for the 2v8 naysayers, check idv's duo hunter rules. If dbd can copy their skillcheck design for mobile, they might get inspired there too.
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Mario kart and party are stated to be causual games, yet even you might heard of people BLEEDING to win in mario party.
Good old 3v1 tug of war minigame.
Just because there isnt a esport scene doesnt mean the game isnt competetive.
Just because its possible to farm in dbd doesnt mean its the normal gameplay. Remember how backwards thinking EVERYONE said the emblems were when these "think of their feelings too, think of those potatoes" scores were implemented.
Im more perplexed HOW people might consider DBD "casual"
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When did survivors ever care for the killers fun?
What survivors consider tunneling or camping is so vague and subjective they'll accuse you of camping in any situation.
There are survivors adamant on claiming that facecamping still exists, even though killers were made unable to block the unhook prompt.
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Like I mentioned earlier, Adrenaline and now Second Wind or Inner Strenght only are "better" at healing because they ignore (or "dont scale") with healing speed. If they were to in any way be affected, even with a better scaling, their popularity would plummet down.
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The minecraft creeper
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647959#Comment_647959
Self Care was a god perk before the healing nerf. Nobody is saying it wasn't. The 84% usage was justified because it really was that good at the time.
But Self Care is most definitely a trash tier perk today after the healing nerf. And especially in this slow down meta where killers run Sloppy Butcher and Mangled Addons like it's going out of style.
Bond is infinitely better than Self Care, and the trick is not to be afraid of being injured and be USEFUL to the team while injured. Do some gens for crying out loud. Even just breaking totems is fine if you're feeling too much heat to go to a gen. Anyone who is just running around for 16 seconds doing nothing is just as bad as a Self Carer.
Wow didnt expect an answer to a ~2month old post.
While I agree that the time spent selfcaring could be better used if that survivor doesnt want to get full health asap, I still stand by my opinion that selfcare is a timesaver when playing solo or being unable to find others quickly.
Im just annoyed when it's called trash because of the healing nerf. ALL healing got adjusted except instant heals or those new delayed instant heals that dont scale with healing speed.
Yes bond can be better than selfcare, but that entirely relies on your fellow survivors. Obviously it'll be faster to get healed by your swf buddy who you can yell in the ear to turn around and heal you. But then there are those randoms who will either fail to notice you or downright ignore your buttdance next to them.
(Not implying bond players crutch on swf, but its a huge factor in its effectiveness)
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/778130#Comment_778130
I mean, you can blame SWF for that but isn't it the fact that you don't have good stuff and they do? This game is literally "Whoever brings the biggest guns usually wins", and they brought the big guns, you didn't.
Except survivors best toys is not part of the game and technically a terms of service violation.
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*gimp your power, get bonus bp addons*
Nurse got 2 of those .
2 Speed limiters
Padded jaws.
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Dont bother, survivors apparantly need that safety blanket.
Just be happy killer doesnt have some "free kills" mechanic. The complaints would be unreasonably worse than what killers rightfully complain about free escapes.
Remenber boys and girls, there are no kills that dont have survivor counterplay. Or killer gameplay. Enjoy the iwin-button.
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/775339#Comment_775339
If killers farm with me and my friends..we ALWAYS give them the kill
You and your mates mist be leprachaums or unicorns, maybe just more rarer.
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Survivors seem to dislike guesswork and reactive gameplay.
My guess is theyre so used to leading the chase that they stumble when forced to guess what those killers who can actively dictate the chase willo do.
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Well, displaying the average escape rate and average emblems of the last 10 trials in the lobby would actually negate the swf advantage over solo. (The rest is communications)
I dont see why -some- stats could hurt.
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I think the game would be faaar more balanced if survivors would hate going against any killer the same way.
Love that fake "fun argumentation"
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Damn survivors should've gotten a victory cube too instead of the emblems for killers.
Theres no game if no one is trying.
Isnt Mario Kart like mario part one of those friendship killing games? Cant really call those casual.
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Well they nerfed both her minimum and maximum performance.
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Perhaps you should've put short introductions for people who dont know what SCP are.
The "lore/canon" version of 096 is quite overkill... that guys either too docile to initiate chases or too savage for hooking survs if his face got exposed.
106 would work similiar to freddy, perhaps? I doubt the entity taking that guy over into her playground with his kit fully intact. And i seriously doubt the survivor tolerance for a killer that can walk through walls.
While 049 does sound more reasonable at first glance, wasnt his thing some sort of instant death touch additionally to the whole "makes people zombies"-operation? Also as already mentioned, theres no way survs should be in control of those zombies.
I think theres really only a handful of Scp useful as dbd killers. Theyre either too overkill or a joke. Example 173 would be an example for being useless, being made stationary by a dwight seeing you approach.
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Sorry, but the very concept of safe spaces in such a game is quite... Weird.
Survivors are only crying about "unsafe" pallets because the devs made the mistake to introduce "safe" pallets into the game.
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Killer is supposed to have the information advantage in the lobby. its part of the balance btw.
Funny that survivors want those borderline gamebreaking CWF-infos for all, but demand killer to lose all available info.
But fine, hide all that info, but in exchange, all killers would get buffed to go against 4 toolboxes, 4 flashlights, 4 keys, 4 firecrackers etc all at once. Doesnt matter if survivors cant bring that many tho.
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why'd it be unfair to solo specifically? its working as intended.
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I want to state some of my opinions before joining in on zhe debate:
- There are no ingame differences nor different score juries between solo and swf/cwf
- All buffs to "solo" will also affect "swf/cwf"
- Swf's advantage is knowledge about the posssible "skill", playstyle and intentions of the other survivors
- Cwf's advantage is real time information exchange.
- Regardless of this topic, weaker killers' abilities should be buffed to get closer to strong ones.
First thing, Survivors dont want swf to become the norm, it's Cwf theyre gunning for. To implement swf to all survivors, the lobby would only need to display the average survival-percentage and eblem scores for the last X games for every survivor.
Now there are multiple ways to normalise cwf, the cheapest way being "just add voicechat. That said a huge chunk of the community would hate this implementation, even with regilatory options (turn it off, working reports etc).
There are quite some ideas thrown around to give more info to survivors without resorting to VC in this forum. Among others:
- "Current action/status icons" in the hud
- Game message systems (IdV uses one)
- Assorted ideas about ping tools or non automatic "current status"-messages
- Implementing certain Aura reading into the base kit (I list this despite my opinion that this might possibly even stronger than voice chat)
I feel the need to explicitely point out again that people putting VC to good use already will also benefit from instant HUD-information. Every piece of info they dont have to ask for will reduce the time spend investigating and allow quicker coordination.
Another thing would be the survivor-killer balance. I'll flatout claim that closing the gap between solo and cwf will need massive compensation. I'd prefer to not include changes to killer abilities in this topic, as those are more part of the killer-killer differences.
I think such a compensation needs to focus on the basic killer mechanics or survivor-killer interactions. Sadly I dont have many examples at hand for this, Im rather tired at the time of writing this:
- Map size
- Generators regress at 0.33/s, survivors need to repair 2charges until the regression stops (should take about 3-4 seconds). Numbers are just examples.
- Fix killer hearing
- Fix killer eye position
- Make vaulting healthy survibors grappable. (Maybe an unnanounced "hard" skillcheck to "only get injured" instead of grabbed)
- Something I thought up myself would be to punish survivors for getting hit midaction. IDV handles this with instantdowns, but that would be too much in dbd. Flinching survivors in place (ministun) on actions like healing, possibly with a slight regression and interruption. On vaulting, "the remainder" of the animation could be slowed down slightly (survivors falling down for a moment after getting hit while jumping through a window, for example). Would probably need a lot of new animations to not look stupid.
- "Bad" ideas would be brainlessy tweaking variables like ms and attack-cd.
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I'd probably like to see Pyramid Head. But konami are being stupid and even the original creator is kinda annoyed by PH's oversaturation in media.
So an Expy of him might actually be more reasonable for DBD. I mean some torturer/execution/gaoler would totally fit.
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One should differentiate between the normal flow of the game, and such a snowball-killer's unique kit.
Normal flow of the game applied to everyone...
The "snowball killer" gets stronger ADDITIONAL to the normal stuff.
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I dont think such a slowstart would be in any kind balanceable at all.
"He has endgame potential, so we have to make his early game atrocious" - thats how such a killer would be designed in DBD, start as F tier, endgame turn into C tier.
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Swf cant be "slightly adjusted" because there is no difference between swf and solo ingame.
And if there were, they'd go back to lobbyjumping until theyre "4 randoms".
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@PolarBear said:
iirc Last of Us (or another similar game) had a reactive cover system where if you just walked up to cover it would automatically use it without having to press a button to go up against it. If a cover system were to happen I'd like it to be like that.
I think such an automatic cover system would clash with looping, depending on implementation.
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While this cover feature doesnt sound like a bad idea, i think the current killers arent strong enough to warrant such feature.
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Thana and DL stack, but their synergy isnt as good as it sounds.
The more stacks for DL you get, the more survivors are likely to be dead, weakening thana.
Also, DL "at full stacks/power" means that only the obsession is left.
Obsession can ignore thana's healing penalty completely.
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- Iridecents head now delete 3 random owned perks from all characters of the person who ragequits when this addon is equipped.
- It also keeps its old effects.
Boom, changed it for less ragequits.
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The infinite ammo idea sounds nice, but it'll probably be reduced to:
- You cannot find hatchets in lockers
- Reduces amount of hatchets by 3-4
- Reloads 1 hatchet every 20 seconds
- Obligatory unecessary penalty to movement speed
You know, "for counterplay"
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Why is everyone talking like "that one" survivor couldnt prevent getting downed.
I remember from long times ago that "being hooked" was supposedly the same as being out of the game.
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A "Dead by Daylight"- movie should feature atleast 2 of the original 3, With trapper and HB requiring less introduction than wraith due to nonmagical abilities.
But Nurse could probably do a solo movie. "Disturbed Ward" as crappy movie name.
Huntress would get some really good thriller, wasnt a remake jason some crazy survivalist too?
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If we go into current lore, the entity feeds on strong emotions.
Having an assured escape route doesnt sound that exciting for anyone evolved.
"No need to panic, hatch gonna spawn anyways"
"No need to panic, doors gonna power anyways"
*monotone* yaaaaay, i escaped
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It'd be nice if most of his kit wasnt locked behind addons.
More afflictions basekit, one may dream
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@UlvenDagoth said:
I do wanna add though, all you Killers saying you don't care if the survivors have fun? Yall need to chill. Like its a game man. Everyone is meant to have fun.
I dont know which side you're regularily playing, nor is it important for the topic of this discussion, but honest to the entity,
Have you ever met a survivor caring if the killer has/had fun?
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/760200#Comment_760200
For those trying to use "kIlLeR mAiN bTw" against @UltraBanana in an argument please notice that if you quickly skim through his previous posts you can find some from 1 month ago stating he prefers to play killer...
You read it here first, I prefer playing survivors! All nerfs to survivors were important for the game and still not enough. Refer to this single post when I lobby against survivors in 2020 again.
---- Sorry for the snark----
It doesnt matter what you prefer to play, or claim so, it's more important which movements you're supporting. "Main" is just a condescending term like Camper, tunneler, sweaty Killer, SWF!, or the many more mean names getting tossed around here.
Survivor main btw
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Sweaty Killers is a made up term by survivors.
Going for 4 Kills is the equivalent of going for the escape as survivor.
Arguably the survivor has more shortcuts for reaching that goal tho.
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Maybe they just dont like you, your playstyle or the obnoxious perk which became the Face for "Second Chance Perks" 😗
Or it could be they're trying to get you to Ragequit. A killer spending just 5 seconds standing still next to a hook strangely causes the game to bug out and disconnect the hooked survivor. Happens (un)surprisingly often.
Maybe theyre part of the so called facecampers who do it by principle instead of reasons?
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I havent been around so long as the first ptb, but it basically went down like this
- Killer hooks survivor A
- Survivor B runs next to the hook, or loops the killer around the hook, or simply keeps nagging the killer nearby the hook
- Survivor C and D rush gens
This created the situation that the Killer now has to chose between giving a free unhook or giving free generators.
While it was infinitely easier to loop the killer back then, the basic principles would still apply nowadays. And as said before, survivors back then made it so that the devs told themselves to never consider such crap again.
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Nope
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Stopping the sacrifice progress when a killer is nearby has been tested on one of the first ptb.
Survivors abused the hell out of it and prompted the devs to never consider this idea again, ever.
The reason survivors cant have nice things has always been and will ever be other survivors.
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Unlike the other stealth killers, EW1 cannot be canceled and Myers needs to "ambush" one or multiple targets to remove the negative effect of his stealth.
His slow movement in EW1 also hurts more if they get a headstart thanks to those perks.
Also he loses that advantage once he tiers up.
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...
The way i see it, Myers getting revealed by anything in EW1 is catastrophally worse than Pig or GF or even wraith getting revealed.
- Pig/GF can cancel her slowed movement at any time.
- GF simply can stand up and still be stealthed even if SpineChill radars him.
- Wraith doesnt care and just whooshes after his prey and uncloaks in chase sooner or later.
Those 3 all have the possibility to just cancel their stealth mode, or to be more precise the negative sides of their stealth.
EW1 Myers cant get rid of his negative effects unless he sucessfully ambushes (stalks) people. Theres a reason he was initially immune to those effects. EW1 can barely catch up to survivors, especially with the movement speed altering addons.
I think the complete immunity is part of his identity in EW1, and is balanced by his horrible movement speed he cannot change unless he gets rid of the immunity by tiering up.
For the really bad idea of canceling EW3 upon getting slammed, unlike plague it is still a melee ability and only has limited duration and ammunition. Really bad idea to let survivors cancel that.
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From what i gathered , this discussion is satire, the spirit one is held dead serious.
(Afterall its kinda pro-
survivor-balance guys discussing a rather hefty killer nerf) -
Illusions could increase madness or make survivors scream if they hit with the lunge attacks, lol
I hope they dont just tack a cooldown on his stance swapping. (Ignore this snark)
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@GrootDude said:
I see a popular suggestion to nerf spirit is to remove her collision, this would only nerf bad spirits who rely on collision (me) and would buff those who don’t. Removing her collision would let her zoom past you and appear in front of a window/pallet you thought was safe.
Her having collision has saved me a lot since I was able to quickly throw a pallet down that she would’ve otherwise just gotten to me with ease.
I believe he is referencing that thread
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Youre weirded out by susie? Try all of our guest killers....
Lol as if I'd post some pic you weirdos 😛
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*Reads title*
*reads discussion*
Indeed good sir, reducing the iframes would help noobs by learning a better timing and indeed gitting gud, as they say, cheerio.
Pffffff, well this is slightly better than that serious spirit proposal.
Good day and thanks for the laugh.
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Unlike ghostface or pig myers in EW1 cant just get up and chase them, he needs to tier up for that.....
Which doesnt happen if he gets found early.
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Her first blink is always mostly ready as soon as fatigue ends, the second one is the problem.
It might lead to survivors outrunning the max blink distance if the nurse doesnt use the recharge addon.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/748097#Comment_748097
Shouldnt we be targeting the lower tiers to boost variety so there's no complaints about 1 specific character... like if more killers had the same power level that freddy, Billy and spirit have then there would be more of them...
Thats what I think too.
I was being unecessarily sarcastic towards OP because i misinterpreted the thread title and didnt read ^^
Off topic but:
In my opinion
- Buff the weaker killers to close the gap towards the higher tiers
grant the survivors all that unecessary information buffs they want because swf get those by cheating. Implement the Solo-Cwf buff concepts, be it ping tools, message systems, "current action icons" and maybe show the average emblem score of every other survivor for the last 10 trials to survivors and optionally VC.- Buff the basic killer/game mechanics (and maybe some slight buffs to killer abilitites) to compensate the huge boost in power the survivors got by the hyperbuff of point 2. (by "killer mechanics" i mean gen regression, totems, map size might count too, etc). Inspired by IdV's terror shock, I personally fancy adding a small animationlock-hitstun/mini-slow when hitting survivors that are performing an action)
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Normalise her strenght by actually reducing the differences between killer tiers.
By buffing all other killers.
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*already has a cooldown that also prevents normal attacks*
ermAgheeerrrrd he needs a longer cooldooooooowwwwwwwnnnn....
Shouldnt you be talking about spirit before targeting hillbilly?
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Survivors who claim that are kinda salty, like everyone involved.
Survivors: No mechanical differences except "player skill". Also additional information available thats not accounted in game balance (SWF+ CWF)
Killers: Mechanical differences between killers plus the "player skill" to make the most out of it.
Unlike with Survivors, there are real differences in performance of killers, hence the Tier lists etc. Sadly devs decided to trim the top instead of reducing the difference between high and low tiered killers the better way.
Imagine you had to loosen a screw, would you use the screwdriever or your fingernails? - bad analogy is bad