ProfessorDunwich
ProfessorDunwich
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3 stacks are incredibly toxic to solo Survivors, especially if they find the Killer is resistant to their bullying efforts.
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@Caiman said:
Next patch isn't going to change anything. People will play xenomorph for a week, realize he's not that good, then go back to their usual mains, or stop playing.
I suspect people playing Xeno will just get fed up with constantly walking through flamethrowers.
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MFT really muddied the waters in regard to this.
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I suspect it is done to increase the FOMO. If you know you will never have another chance to get something in the Rift, you are more likely to spend real money on the game. You are also forced to stay engaged with the game if you don’t want to miss something.
Playing because of a battle pass at the very least increases player count along with making it more likely you will spend money on cosmetics and characters.
Battle passes feel great if you are playing the game daily. If you are playing intermittently or want to play another game as well (especially if it also has a battle pass), you see how unsavory they can be.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512843#Comment_3512843
This is different, because Sabotage is not a built-in counter to Trapper. The mentioned Killers have built-in counters in their Kit. It would be the same if the Survivors can find Metal Detectors against Trapper.
@Topic:
The thing is, counters make it possible that the Killer abilities are actually strong. Singularity and Alien would need to be much weaker if you cannot use EMPs or Turrets.
Who is actually playing Singularity? Why would I play a Killer who constant gets their power shut down? Being an M1 Killer these days is almost an insta loss.
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He can be fun against average Survivors but you are going to be absolutely miserable against good ones, especially with MFT and the vault changes.
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@Crowman said:
At least Alien can actually counter turrets. Singularity just has to eat EMPs.
Still snapped out of their power by the time it is destroyed.
@Xernoton said:
The idea is to force some kind of interaction between survivors and killers. That isn't a bad thing by any means. The execution however is far from perfect.
Interaction is fine. Having the Killer fighting to be able to use their power at all is not.
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@jesterkind said:
This is the problem with trying to boil every single update down into a strict nerf or a strict buff. The answer to your question is... they aren't! They're reworking her!
It's not even that the intent is to make her weaker. The intent is to make her stronger! They just need to change a few things because it's not quite hitting the mark on the PTB, and that's exactly what the PTB is for. This way of looking at things is deeply unhelpful and actively obscures what's going on.
The intent is likely make Condemned unviable as Survivors don’t like it. Which is being done. Any changes for the people who actually playing her are an after thought at best.
Condemned should be reworked to something other than a mori. Also after all this she STILL has her lullaby, stealth killer with a lullaby.
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@Beatricks said:
If only the dev team could implement this whole idea in a controlled environment where the strengths and weaknesses could be observed and then the values adjusted.
Imagine if we publicly tested this feature on a server, gave feedback and the devs addressed any and all issues.
That would be pretty neat huh?
Minimizing and condescending.
@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434061#Comment_3434061
I think @1ettuce gave you all the rebuttle you need, honestly.
But personally, if you are camping at the 10-16m range, you are effectively face camping. That said, we don't really need to be a semantic samuel about this, because the issue isn't a matter of semantics. The issue is "how many meters away from hook do we want to discourage the killer from camping?" It appears the developers settled on 16m, and I would agree with them. A killer who is standing within 16m and watching the hook is not being very engaging--they are facilitating a behavior that should be discouraged for the health of the game.
If you're going to complain about "he said-she said," then you're not looking at the real issue.
You are trying to spin 16m into “face camping.” Unreal.
Boom, gottem’.
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If you are going to play Killer, certainly not. Killers are having tactics removed one by one and it will continue until the Survivor Rulebook is completely forced.
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@Nos37 said:
Stop acting like if you step one foot closer than what's shown in the last pic that the survivor on the hook immediately unhooks themself, the exit gates magically open, they teleport to the gate, and their t-bagging sets your machine on fire.
Go patrol gens.
Minimizing and condescending. Standard forum Survivor main.
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They are basically forcing Killers to play by the Survivor Rule Book at this point.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
As I was convinced by this announcement, BhVR is probably the same as the people who make the Survivor's rule book.
Really seems they are trying to force Killers to play this way.
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@jesterkind said:
The more I think about this system, the more game I am to see it tested. Obviously a lot will depend on the numbers we don't know, and anything can change between PTB and Live if problems do arise, but they've given themselves a lot of leeway to let this system be impactful because the "fail state" for the killer isn't actually that bad if you aren't facecamping.
If you're trying to spread pressure and cycle through targets, you're going to expect that a survivor is unhooked anyway, pushing them from stage 1 to stage 2 or from stage 2 to dead doesn't really happen unless they've been left there for long enough that you only have to fend off survivors coming for the save for a few seconds. This is an area we don't know the effects of this system on, because we don't know the numbers; if it takes long enough to fill up that you have that spare ten to fifteen seconds, great, you can still punish mistakes just as well as live and nothing's changed. If not, that can be tweaked.
If a survivor tries running you near the hook, though, what's the worst case scenario? You occupy two survivors for however long it takes for that meter to fill up (meaning the generator efficiency with all survivors still alive is down a whopping 50%), and unless you get completely clowned on, you've got an injury + you're likely to have a down to replace the self-unhook with. That's a trade, those happen all the time in live and it's not actually a huge deal for you.
The better case scenario for survivors running you to the hook is that you down them before the meter fills all the way. That way it's definitely a trade at minimum and even has the potential to be two on the hook if you're on the ball; that makes running the killer to the hook a risk, not a guaranteed-value avenue for abuse like it would be if the system disabled powers or applied debuffs.
In short, I don't really see the value in trying to think of ways this system will be abused unless it's to make note of for testing later. We just don't know enough specifics and what we know sounds mostly fair. The only time this system ought to have a huge effect, on paper, is if you're putting all your eggs in one basket and don't have any hook states or pressure on the other survivors- in other words, if you're camping.
You are going to expect a Survivor to be unhooked by another Survivor, which takes that one off gens. It is absolutely a huge thing if a Survivor can unhook themselves.
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@indieeden7 said:
The terms 'camping' and 'face camping' have been used interchangeably for years
Not really. Camping also includes proxy camping.
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@maybelawliet said:
I’m a survivor and killer main, and the only reason being a killer is so fun is because you can actually win games. Being a survivor is like being a chicken in a pen with a lion. It’s not fair how survivor perks are being nerfed constantly and killers are being buffed. I’ve played about 5 games today as a survivor and won in NONE of them. But as a killer, I win several games in a row. It’s like bullying a bunch of kids that can’t do anything and have no defense. I really dislike it.
The number of upvotes this likely disingenuous post has just shows the Survivor bias on these forums. If legit, must be playing Killer vs low MMR folks or they are a god and would love to see their gameplay footage.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433225#Comment_3433225
I think most people play both roles. They may have a preference for one over the other, but they still play both.
And the perk overhaul of update 6.1 happened because of killer complaints about the survivor meta of UB, DS, DH, and IW. So no, killer complaints aren't dismissed. The gen kick meta got changed up, but BHVR said after 6.1 that meta shake ups will be a regular occurrence. And it is.
I think most people heavily lean towards one role.
The gen kick perks were nerfed with no alternative for gen control given. No FoV slider. Etc.
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@Nazzzak said:
This is starting to feel like the same sort of panicking that happened around Fogwise and Blood Rush, both of which were unwarranted. There's no point in running the killer to the hook if they aren't camping. Especially considering killers are faster than survivors and running in a particular direction as opposed to taking advantage of nearby loops is likely to get you downed faster than if you just looped the killer and let a team mate get the unhook (and heal). Plus you're putting both yourself and the newly unhooked person at risk of both getting downed. It doesn't make sense. I can't see it.
Chases typically go between tiles. Survivors have a lot of control over where the chase goes.
Fogwise and Bloodrush are not fundamental parts of every game.
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
i'm about to live up to my name in this next mid chapter patch no more hooking survivors ever
Don’t worry. This forum is full of Survivor mains who will go out of their way to dismiss any concerns you have as Killer, in this case by minimizing.
Killers will be encouraged to slug if these changes go through. Then they will bring back those awful basekit Unbreakable changes. Killers will be forced to play by the Survivor Rule Book. I suspect only the very best Killers will continue playing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't understand the people claiming the system may not be subject the abuse in the OP.
If the timer is too long too prevent face-camping from ruining the game for a player ... what good is it in the first place?
If it is not, Survivors swarming hooks and pulling chases to hooks is EXACTLY what is going to happen.
Just put it in the PTB and let's all see what happens.
There are many more Survivor mains here than Killers. 2 reasons I suspect, have to be way more Survivors for the game to function and they can take casual breaks in game to post here.
Anything that may make the game worse for Killers is quickly dismissed. Survivors complained about the gen kick meta, that got changed in their favor (with no other gen control for Killers added), then they moved to camping and that is getting changed in their favor as well. They also got huge HUD buffs. Meanwhile, Killers cannot get an FoV slider.
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@Pulsar said:
How can you even list anything when we know nothing about the system?
I described the system in the post, saying we know nothing is not accurate.
@1ettuce said:
"To be clear it is not so much anti-camp as it is not being around the hook at all." So..anti-camp?
There can be gens being protected, other Survivors running around, pallets to break etc. Being by the hook does not necessarily mean you are camping.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433132#Comment_3433132
And none of this information can be used to form a solid opinion without knowing all about the timer as well, which we do not.
It will have same issue as Boil Over, either too strong or useless. They aren’t going to bother if it is the latter.
@Mushmallow said:
- It doesn't stop the progression when a survivor is near. It only slows it down, which means it's easy to abuse.
- 16m is giant and will trigger from the killer going through the map or patrolling gens.
- The anti-camping mechanic will also activate when multiple survivors are hooked together or near an important gen, 3-gen, or totem.
- The survivor on the hook sees the progress meaning they will always know exactly when the killer is in the range.
- The killer has no way of knowing if they're in the range or not for certain.
Excellent points. I highly doubt BHVR has even considered these.
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@shofarian_starfall said:
What the hell did I just do.... Why did I just subject my self to two pages of some Goofball arguing with himself and changing his argument WOW ..... Jerry Springer vibes in here... <passes blunt>
Sounds like a you problem.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423939#Comment_3423939
"I was bullied horribly too. Not much brings that feeling back more than a group of toxic Survivors."
Quoting you directly.
Clearly that quote sums up ALL my feelings on DBD. Nothing more to it. You have it all figured out.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423915#Comment_3423915
If it upsets you that much, stop playing.
Harsh? Perhaps. However, you shouldn't be playing a game that makes you feel miserable and bullied all the time.
Nuance is not your strong suit, is it?
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423864#Comment_3423864
I'm not Pulsar, obviously, but it's not even cognitive dissonance. Pulsar is pretty on point, but also goes beyond further than what he said. Nothing in game is comparable to bullying. I was bullied for years, much of my adolencent and teenage life in school. People saying flashy clicking, t-bagging, gen rushing, or generic "bully squad behavior", in addition to the other side saying camping/tunneling, etc is bullying completely trivilizes the meaning of what bullying is and what actually constitutes actual bullying, which is completely traumatic and often times unavoidable, especially when the bullying happens in schools, like mine was. Calling anything in game, other than, say, when people targeted black creators with blackface bubba, for instance, is not remotely close to bullying, and to say otherwise IS cognitive dissonance on what it actually means to be bullied and what bullying actually IS.
I was bullied horribly too. Not much brings that feeling back more than a group of toxic Survivors. Before you say it is a me issue, people constantly say Killer is far more anxiety provoking than Survivor. Killer anxiety is not an uncommon topic discussed. I suspect this is why.
It makes total sense too. It’s not one team making fun of another, it is 4 people laughing at one person. If you have ever seen streamers or YouTubers play SWF they are often having a grand old time making the Killer miserable. Check out Aryun’s SWF Head On Squad video if you want to see an example.
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@Orthane said:
How is it that a gen can finish before my TVs spawn as Sadako? How can I constantly have 2 people on me, and 4 gens are done in 3 minutes? How is that even playable? Gens get done so fast that I can't even play the game even though I have 25-50% of their team occupied. It's driving me insane because it feels unplayable.
You have to have at least one gen regression perk to have a chance, most of the good streamers I see run multiple, consistently. Corrupt and Deadlock are solid choices, Jolt on M1 Killers. Meanwhile Survivors have 4 free perk slots and can do just fine with any build.
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@Sylhiri said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423769#Comment_3423769
So flashlights and being able to sabo the hook should be removed from the game because players are using flashlights and sabotaging hooks in ways that the developers intended?
In that case I got a list of stuff that irritates me that we can get rid of as well.
Are you willing to say camping and tunneling is as the devs intended? Or does that logic only apply when Killers don’t like something?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423833#Comment_3423833
Says the person who thinks going for a save is bullying.
Lmao.
Gross misrepresentation of what I have been saying, hence cognitive dissonance.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423814#Comment_3423814
You might genuinely be delusional. You've already admitted that you use Lightborn, ergo, people arent actually flashlight saving against you. Your feelings are so hurt by them even attempting that you resort to calling them bullies.
You are trivializing actual bullying by saying that someone pointing a flashlight at you is bullying.
Grow up.
Cognitive dissonance in spades.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423804#Comment_3423804
Attempting a flashlight save isn't bullying.
Shame on you for even insinuating it's even remotely comparable
Flashlights are magnets for bully squads. Shame on you for purposely ignoring that.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423632#Comment_3423632
Same here, but no reason to make a giant fuss about it. Its just generic ingame BM.
It only matters if they do it in retaliation for camping/tunneling?
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423769#Comment_3423769
"Goal is usually to antagonize the Killer for their own amusement" ... it's not that deep
Bullying rarely is deep for the bullies, that’s the problem.
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422730#Comment_3422730
Killer is stressful? Please. Argument destroyed RAHHH
You got me.
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@thrawn3054 said:
So basically you get all butt hurt and are willing to risk throwing the game over it.
Looks like you have me all figured out.
@Sylhiri said:
Flashlight saves and sabotaging the hook trying to get the killer chase a new person while ignoring the downed survivor seems pretty much the intended goal. Basically anti-tunneling.
Goal is usually to antagonize the Killer for their own amusement.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422751#Comment_3422751
Camping and tunneling isn’t fun for survivors, therefore, it’s not part of the game and you must avoid it at all costs in order to spare their emotions.
Saboing, blinding, locker stunning, body blocking, t-bagging, and everything else survivors can do is fun for them, regardless of how the killer feels, so it’s all part of the game. You should understand by now that the killers feelings are irrelevant to 99% of survivors.
Now it all makes sense. But in all honesty, an excellent summation.
@Shroompy said:
You can tunnel and camp some one who FL or Sabo saved sure
But dont be upset or surprised when their team or even that same Survivor rub it in with a few clicks or tbags at the exit gate
In my experience, they do it regardless.
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I think if you are playing with randoms, there is a decent chance they will DC or die on the hook. Not many Survivors are willing to be face camped unless it is for their friends. Makes sense how going for saves is a top priority.
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If you say so.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422848#Comment_3422848
Sidebar.
What playstyle would NOT be boring to you?
1. Camping is the most boring thing
2. Ruin+Undying is the most boring thing
3. Slugging is the most boring
4. Anti-loop killers are the most boring
5. Tunneling is the most boring thing
6. 3-gens are the most boring
7. Hit and run is the most boring <----------------- you are here.
8. Killers Pressuring gens is boring
9. Anti-Healing is boring
10. Killers even playing the game is boring
What style is not boring to you?
It’s boring unless a Trapper is whiffing constantly and stepping in his traps. 0 hook escape with tbagging at the end.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0QA6ACVPDHEB/image.png
Play however and move on to the next match.
Same topic that has been posted about a million times.
You literally took the time to make a picture to say who cares. Give that some thought,
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@Wilx said:
I mean that's why I do sabo or flashlight. I want your attention at that point to give my fellow survivors time to do gens. Keep it up. 👍
It’s pretty obvious when you are trying compensate for a less experienced friend playing. I’ll go for them or wait till you are out of position. People act like there is no nuance to these things.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I don't believe there's a single survivor who doesn't expect this.
@MrPsych said:
Person figures out how cause and effect are a concept, makes post.
Appreciate how the narrative went from that’s not cool to how obvious it is. 🙄
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422767#Comment_3422767
So you just look for excuses to tunnel people?
Your just using it as a justification.
You aren't even getting flashlighted and your feelings are so hurt by the attempt that you try to tunnel other people out.
Weird.
I don’t need an excuse to camp or tunnel. I will do it as I please. That said I am more likely to with Survivors I find distasteful. My criteria is my own, regardless how you feel about it. Also it feels like you are literally always here.
@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422730#Comment_3422730
id love to see this amazing survivor play of yours. would you show us?
I said it wasn’t stressful. Never said I was amazing. I’m not amazing at Mine Sweeper or Solitaire, but I don’t find them stressful.
@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422738#Comment_3422738
if a game stresses you out.....maybe its not the game at that point? maybe its a you thing
Pretty wide consensus is that Killer is way more stressful than Survivor. If you don’t think so, you are either messing around or don’t play Killer.
@MimiDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422768#Comment_3422768
I see you need an elaboration so here goes. Sometimes killers might need to tunnel or camp to try to make pressure later in the game I do this sometimes as well. That is strategy and can sometimes turn a game around that's not going well. In your post however you tunneled (targeted) a specific player because they beamed you or sabo which is just playing the game. can you see the difference? One is being used as a last resort to attempt to win and the other is a killer salty they did not pay attention and got outplayed.
Yes. Sometimes you get a down out in the open where you can't protect yourself from a beamer but there are just as many situations where you can bait the beamer out and switch targets (give or take situation). Usually you can switch target hooks when they try to sabo as well very rarely does a perfect sabo happen. Tunneling and camping are raising the kill rates to a point the devs think killer is fine. I wish there was a way to dismantle these strats so killers can be buffed but won't happen with the current state of the player base. Regardless I don't have an issue with tunneling/camping per se but I do in the situation you describe.
Your criteria are arbitrary and you think they should be set in stone. At least many Killers wait till there is a perceived wrong to be distasteful, SWF decide on a Head On/Flashbang or Sabo squad before the game even starts.
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How else did you mean “targeted”?
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@Pulsar said:
Your feelings are that hurt from a flashlight save?
Nah, I just use Lightborn.
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@MimiDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422724#Comment_3422724
I am in support of solo buffs but survivor could never be more stressful than killer. You actually get downtime (Gens, healing, totem, etc) where as the killer is full go entire match. I actually play games on my phone or listen to music while doing my primary objective as survivor. I could never do this as killer. I don't agree with OP either...sounds like the survivors were targeted for playing the game.
How is saboing and flash saving just “playing the game” but camping and tunneling is not?
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@Steakdabait said:
is there a real point to making this self tell post other than bad bait?
Seems like many Survivor’s think that the Killer should not throw out the Survivor Rule Book based on how the Survivors play. I am trying to dispel that notion.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422730#Comment_3422730
It can be if you have potatoes in solo queue. For example, earlier I had a game against myers. 3 of us were left with 1 gen remaining. Each person was hooked once. No one else was doing gens no matter how much I tried to urge them and i did all the unhooking/healing....we all died. Trying to carry your team is stressful
I have played soloQ more than Killer. It is not stressful most of the time. When it is clear I have potato teammates, resignation sinks in, not stress.
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@coolgue1 said:
could say the same thing to every killer that only mind-games while the rest of us want to have fun simple games they continue to tryhard. Part of the game, sure. Incredibly aggravating while playing a stressful role, absolutely. You can play how you want but don’t be surprised when they sabo or gen rush (BNP) or flashlight save the argument goes around and around
Survivor is stressful? Please.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422680#Comment_3422680
Truthfully it’s more frequent in killers. In the past, it was definitely survivors.
Nope.
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I do actually have rules, think many Killers do. I want the game to be enjoyable. SWFs have no such qualms.
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Tough to focus someone when the whole team is in on it. Also that usually gets me a bunch of free hits. Turned a 1K into a 3K recently because they tried to bodyblock me from going to the basement. Just couldn’t accept they might not get a 4 man escape.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
Seems like a given
One would think. Survivors complain about it plenty though.
”All I did was sabo the hook, forcing him to drop, and he focused me! Some Killers are so sensitive.”