Orion
Orion
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- Orion
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Comments
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@FeelsVeryBadMan Two weeks means two weeks after the last rank reset. I'd rather have five days, a week tops, before any ranking changes or rank reset, which is what we got. It's the "purest" data, when everyone has settled into their ranks and we can accurately gauge the game's balance.
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@No_Cluie_Louis You do know that connections work both ways, right?
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@FeelsVeryBadMan Why is 5 days not enough? Keep in mind that if the time frame is too wide, you'll catch people who're still settling into their proper ranks after the previous rank reset.
I get surviving isn't the same as fun, but if survivors escape more often than not, this means you can run sub-par (fun) builds and still win (escape).
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@Peanits Dude, hardly anyone brings medkits. Besides, if 10% already makes the medkit useless, buffing it won't really change much in regards to how it interacts with medkits, will it? Sorry, but that example is irrelevant.
Dropping it in a chase is also a counter right now, so, again, this wouldn't change anything.
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@FeelsVeryBadMan Yet the survival rate at rank 1 and 2 is high. 60% for rank 2 and 80% for rank 1 (though the rank 1 survival rate is due to the way rank 1 works and the way they acquired the data). So I understand having to run meta perks on killer to have a chance, but survivor, not so much.
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@Emeal That's just as arbitrary as any other time zone and has the same result.
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@fcc2014 I didn't have anything specific in mind, just that even if you maxed out every other category, unless you escaped as survivor and got 2 or more kills with killer, you would not be able to pip past rank 10.
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@Master_Bad_Guy That survival rate is not separated by rank, which makes it worthless. Everyone knows newbies are bad.
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@Peanits The only shocking thing for me overall was the survival rate at rank 1, but your explanation basically confirms what @Delfador said, which makes sense.
Can we get a weighted average of rank 1 and rank 2 survival rates, to get an idea of how often the very top DbD players survive?
Also, just so we're clear, stuffing more potatoes in top ranks doesn't make the game more balanced. It just makes ranks less significant in determining skill levels. I say this because you mentioned the survival rates after the pipping threshold was lowered, but all that means is that a significant portion of survivors pip despite failing at their chosen role.
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@not_Queen First of all, thank you for replying. It's always appreciated to get a "full" reply from a developer regarding an issue such as this.
I must admit I'm skeptical about your claim that you don't have the necessary data to ascertain who is or isn't abusing the bug. Maybe not automatically due to a lack of infrastructure, but I'm fairly certain you have access to vault events and other stuff that occurred during trials. IIRC, such data was even compiled during an event.
That said, I will be recommending that people record their killer trials to find people who are exploiting this. Do you prefer clips containing just the abuse, or the full rounds?
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@Peanits I meant the killer usage rate, separated by rank, but that's nice as well.
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@245_Trioxin The organized strike started in March, yes, but the overall drop in players was due to killers quitting en masse, for one reason or another. And yes, there were other factors, but you have no evidence to suggest those releases were responsible for anything by themselves. I do remember players saying they were quitting to play other things due to being frustrated with DbD, however.
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@Delfador You know what, Delfador? You raise a very good point that I hadn't thought of. However, even if we take the survival rate at rank 2 into account, it's still a 60-80% winrate (since we'd need to group up rank 1 players as well, but don't have enough data to do a weighted average). It's way too high.
@Peanits Can we get this discretized data in full?
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@Master_Bad_Guy It's right here, dude: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/61114/data-sheets-community-requests
Check "Survival rates". Note how the survival rate at rank 1 is 80%.
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@245_Trioxin However they're doing it, they shouldn't be doing it that way. 80% escape rate is absurd.
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@NuclearBurrito Yup.
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@245_Trioxin It's either that, or you suggest that it's all a massive coincidence, including the player count.
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@245_Trioxin No data was given, but unless you think it's a massive coincidence that many players all suddenly started suffering from high queue times at roughly the same time as a large group of players stopped playing, then had their queue times returned to normal once that large group of players returned to the game, I don't see what more you'd need.
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@Master_Bad_Guy Well, I know your complaint is irrelevant, because we have statistical data that objectively proves you wrong.
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@245_Trioxin Then rank would become irrelevant. Your logic is like saying that if we discriminate against everyone, then inequality will be solved.
If they balance around the top players and understand how the game is played there, then they can make adjustments that don't affect the top players, but will affect the others. That's how every game ever has done it, and it works well, regardless of how competitive they're meant to be. Doing what BHVR is doing now is how Evolve died (there were other factors, but the main one was the balancing hunters around mediocre players and balancing monsters around top players).
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@Master_Bad_Guy Anecdotes are not evidence. Statistically, survivors escape a lot more than they die at rank 1. And against the Nurse, the problem is your skill.
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@245_Trioxin The last time there was an organized strike, survivor queue times spiked and player count dropped.
So no, not false. In fact, demonstrably true, because it's happened before.
You know what they say about those who do not know history.
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@245_Trioxin There is an eighty percent escape rate at rank 1. That's four out of every five survivors. Killers do not expect a 4k every trial, they just expect the devs to balance around the 2k that was promised, and to do it at rank 1 like every other game.
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@245_Trioxin Every killer that leaves means another four survivors can't get into a trial. They need to balance the game and the rest will sort itself out.
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@245_Trioxin There is a double standard by survivors' actions. They expect to be given hatch escapes and whatnot (and often do receive them), but god forbid they pay the same kindness to killers. I've yet to encounter a survivor in-game who surrenders to the hook freely to prevent the killer from getting a 4k.
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@McCree Face camping is blocking the hooked survivor in such a way that the "Unhook" prompt doesn't show up. This makes rescues mechanically impossible.
Hard camping is just standing next to the hook. This makes rescues slightly risky, nowhere near impossible.
It's not the same. I'm sure you and others are already thinking "OMG such a pedantic #########", but the reason for this distinction is that face camping came back a while back and took a long time to be fixed because reports of "face camping" are ignored, since survivors don't know what the term actually means and think hard camping is bannable.
Just because a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet doesn't mean you should call it a tulip and pretend they're the same.
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@245_Trioxin It's not odd. The new pipping changes made it extremely difficult to reach rank 1, so only the best of the best can get there. This shows exactly what everyone already knew: killers cannot win against opponents of equal skill.
And no, it makes no sense to balance around mid ranks. Every game balances around the best players, because that's what makes sense. Think about it, do you think it's fair to change the rules of chess based on how the average players fare against Kasparov?
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@245_Trioxin I play both sides. The "nicest" thing I've seen from survivors is the lack of toxicity (which is just normal human behavior, IMO).
As for my comment, I'm just tired of the double standards. Killers are expected to wait on survivors hand and foot if they stub their toe, whereas survivors are often more toxic if they win.
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80% survival rate at rank 1. The Nurse is the most played killer at rank 1, so how come the survival rate is still absurdly high, if indeed she's as "broken" as you claim?
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@245_Trioxin I've yet to meet a survivor in-game who understands there are humans behind the killers. That's why I've stopped playing nice.
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@Master_Bad_Guy The Hillbilly is probably the second most played killer at rank 1, with the Nurse being the most played killer. And still, the survival rate is 80%. Strong, you say? Don't make me laugh.
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My main conclusion from the survival rate is that the game is balanced for rank 8-11. There's an 80% survival rate at rank 1, which is even higher than I thought it was.
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@McCree You did imply he should've let you win the chase by chastising him for "tunneling". Now you're chastising him for making sure his only catch dies (what you call "face camping").
PS: Face camping is an exploit that was removed. What you encountered is just hard camping.
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First we need to see these kill rates separated by rank and get confirmation that they do not count DCs as kills, don't include trials where one or more survivors don't load in, and don't include farming rounds. Then this information might be relevant.
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@Aven_Fallen It's the same thing, just a different case of the game being stacked against you. No dice. Until survivors show reciprocity, I will act toward them as they have been acting toward every killer I've seen for three years.
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@Aven_Fallen Indeed, survivors need to git gud instead of demanding free handouts just because someone else disconnected.
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@SlinkyJinky Those surprise attacks, stealth attacks, etc., are all bugged. They are all supposed to trigger MoM. Furthermore, dealing double damage is irrelevant because it's still a hit. It'll trigger MoM just the same. This brings down the list of killers who can counter MoM all the way down to 4, with the Plague only being able to do it if survivors cleanse against her (which they often don't). Only counting viable killers, the list gets reduced all the way to 1 - the Hillbilly.
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I've heard reports of the offering itself causing instability and making games crash.
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@Elegant The only reason Epic can afford such low rates is because they have no features. Steam offers a ton of features, and those features cost money. They're more consumer-friendly.
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@Jesp It is indeed roughly equivalent to giving a hatch escape. However, it's borderline mythological at this point, as opposed to hatch escapes.
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@Johnny_XMan Basically irrelevant because it's nowhere near as prevalent as looping. Shouldn't the bigger problems be fixed first? Isn't a bridge collapse a little more important than a pot hole?
If the generators can't be finished because every survivor is in the basement, then you can report that player for holding the game hostage. They get banned, and you laugh. Problem solved.
TL;DR, basement body blocking has been fixed. If the generators are repaired, survivors die - this is coming in the next update. If the generators can't be repaired, the killer is banned - reports and bans are already a thing.
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@Johnny_XMan Everyone has to deal with annoyances. Compared to looping, basement body blocking is basically irrelevant. If "not fun" is a reason to change how the game works, then looping should go first, since it's much more prevalent.
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@Johnny_XMan Collapse will kill you, eventually. Basement body blocking fixed.
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@NoShinyPony And we're saying that the precedent set with the Legion's exploit makes that distinction irrelevant.
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@se05239 It's not the only PvP game I play, but I also tend to stay away from them. I prefer co-op and single player. Less toxicity and I can play co-op with my boyfriend.
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@SlinkyJinky The point of wiggling is to make sure the killer doesn't stuff you in the basement every single time. You know how Deep Wound and RBTs aren't actually dangerous unless survivors purposefully ignore them? Wiggling is that kind of mechanic, but on the survivor side.
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None whatsoever. If an EAC update decides to scan for changes to perk icons, you'll be banned. The fear of the ban hammer is always there.
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@se05239 Me neither. Toxic behavior is the main reason I stay away from multiplayer games. People are #########.
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@Heroiq I've heard other people do it as well, but I've never actually seen it for myself. I won't be holding back until I see survivors do it at roughly the same rate as killers.
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@thrawn3054 Killers give hatches, let everyone go, and allow farming. Why don't survivors ever let killers get kills or farm? But like I said, no more double standards. Everyone gets steamrolled to the best of my ability and add-ons (which I rarely used before).