Onyx_Blue
Onyx_Blue
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@ItzPixelYT Freddy shouldn't have slowdown add-ons in the first place lol so making it so every killer has a form of this would just be obnoxious. Do you know how many killer players already spam slowdown builds for the pressure they desperately lack in-game? Loadssssss. If a killer cannot defend generators then they are playing badly. If you vs a team who are all good runners, change the style of play to best vs them. People who complain about new Ruin making it easier to be gen rushed have zero pressure on the map, simple as.
Killer players who rely on perks and add-ons to hard carry the effort are unskilled and have zero pressure too. If a killer cannot play around specific survivor playstyles they will lose. A good killer can actually spot the styles and prevent themselves from falling for conditioning, baits, and actually have a strategy...a plan A, a plan B and maybe even a plan C.
This goes for every character too, yep, that's right, M1(R2/RT) killers can have strong map pressure too, without slugging yadayadayada and playing like a forehead, scumbag, trashcan etc whatever you wanna call that boring playstyle.
The devs have said they are making it so obnoxious synergisation of slowdowns won't always be a thing. And toolboxes are being changed too. For now, i'm happy with hearing that. It'll be good to see actual killer players peeling away from crutch stacking pressure builds and actually playing at a good and fun level. And on survivors, it'll be good to see that they won't be able to abuse the crap out of gen repairs with toolboxes. It allows more room for killer interaction if the gen isn't popping as fast as they have the potential to atm. So win win there.
And to respond to your recent post, if a killer only wants to play for their add-ons, that's something already available to them now. They just need to be aware that the way they want to use their add-on build may not be the way to defend gens. And shouldn't be suprised if they lose quickly
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If you wanna hear good ideas for changes to the Pig, watch Scorpionz on Twitch -- he's a Pig main. He's said about this before, how he feels Pig would be more fun for everyone if she couldn't see her own Jigsaw Boxes as base kit. I definitely agree, her being able to just bounce around the boxes hoping for easy hooks/kills is so boring to vs, Plague doesn't see her Pools until it is used, so this idea isn't far out there.
And tbh I don't understand how you guys have a problem with her stealth ability. You should know the distance survivors hear terror radius at by now, so just crouch just before you enter the range. Plus, having her heartbeat close and then disappear is a very strong paranoia mechamic, survivors often get scared and move off a gen they are on just in case she pops up near them; so it's a good mechanic in that way. She can't have faster movement speed while crouched, because that would break her Dash attack. She would never miss, since she'd be able to reangle herself too easily in the loop with a smaller frame. Leading me to this, her dash roar is fine as is. A survivor needs to know what is going on, since the louder roar happens towards the end of the bar, the survivor knows to expect an incoming Dash imminently - vs a good Pig she will land this attack pretty much every time even with you knowing it's coming. So I don't see an issue on that part of her gameplay. Yeah, some of her add-ons are pretty boring and useless to use, the status effect helmets, for example (except Blindness, that one is actually pretty useful). So those could be replaced, god knows what with though lol
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I'm just gonna say that, if you gain 9/12 tokens before the last gen is done, you've come close to winning/have killed everyone already...so that part of the idea should be rethought.
I would say this is very similar to my idea that I posted, except mine just had Exposed permanently once the required number of tokens is achieved before Exit Gates are powered. And for examples sake, my required amount was 4 tokens (since NOED is primarily used as a crutch for baby and unskilled killer players. Having to earn anymore tokens is harsh on them, since an experienced killer using a perk like NOED is overkill now and will always be, so that aspect of consideration is void)
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It feels like i'm the only person who thinks he's fine as he is, when it comes to these debates.
You can do so many unique mindgames with Clown since he is very audible heavy with everything he does. Plus his bottles aren't just for slowdowns, they work better than Freddy's Snares at shepperding survivors and they act as a very good blur/mist effect to mask mindgaming movement.
Not a lot of Clowns use these tools to proper effect in my opinion. Did you guys know vaults are impossible to loop vs a great Clown? Since you cannot move for perfectly timed and placed bottle throws, mixed with the audio mindgames, he will mess your life up. And dropping pallets early against him doesn't waste as much time as you think, especially if the killer player knows how to juggle and pressure properly, all it does is make that area a deadzone later when you need it desperately once you know how devastating he's playing.
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@AAAAA Which is one of the points I touched on. I want Ranks to matter again. I don't wanna be vsing boosted killers all the time. I think every survivor match I played today I versed green ranks. Greens who play like Browns. All but ,like, two used NOED in the match I played them in. Soooo, yeah, ranks need fixing. And other elements (like NOED) need to be looked at and altered to help that process along. When I play as Red Rank killer I vs Red Rank survivors, occasional lower colour than that thrown in, but those are usually swf duos, trios, quads or something. Only as survivor am I vsing lower ranked players. Matchmaking is in an awful state currently, and every step that can be made to fix the big picture of Rank/Matchmaking needs to be made. No debate, those steps must be made. Am I saying this version of NOED I suggested is the perfect solution, I'd like to think so, but regardless if it is or what gets changed, something towards the bigger picture has to. This new algorithm of pairing up against players of similar form I cannot see fixing it, because there are still underlying issues such as NOED in general, toolboxes, certain broken infinites that still exist that waste too much time and just shouldn't exist anymore. But yeah, it all needs fixing
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@Raptorrotas when the perk has significant impact on pips, yes it does. And then take Survivors, Survivors rank up easily because Ranking for survivor is a joke. I've had a few matches recently where it felt like I was doing nothing all game and still pipped. So you can alter the way ranks are effected by altering certain perks. New Ruin means you have to have pressure on the gens, and map in general, to get benefit from the perk. Hence why so many stopped using it and moved to DL, SB, Corrupt, Thanatphobia because they were hard carried by passive perks. Which is exactly what NOED is, a passive end-game perk
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@Raptorrotas it's a point about the players using NOED, not the people vsing it. If a killer has barely the basic grasp of how to play the game, they shouldn't be getting to green ranks and higher as quickly as NOED takes them there. Simple as that. Ranks need to be fixed, and this is a change that would be a step in the right direction. The other step would be reverting rank reset back to the old way of 1 to 15, etc etc for a 1or2 months, so that way boosted killers and survivors will need to try to actually play skillfully to get back up. And then once the rank balance is back, revert it back to the previous reset of Rank 1 to 10 etc etc. Steps need to be made to fix Ranks meaning something again
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@Marcavecunc What? You've clearly misread everthing I said in the thread post. It isn't nerfing the game to make it easier for low ranks at all. This idea for NOED makes it so that the killer player has to achieve the set perk criteria - hook 4 times in the match - in order for NOED to be primed and ready for activation. As opposed to now where a typical NOED killer has zero pressure all game, chases one survivor for 5 gens and then, because at least one totem was left up (for whatever reason) now NOED is active. This unskilled, boosted killer now has the potential to get multiple hooks/downs in that match even though they have zero game intelligence and skill at the game. This idea makes it so these killers learn basic pressure at the minimum before being rewarded with ranking up higher than what they should be (into green for example), since they have to get numerous hooks in the match, forcing them to learn proper chase pressure, unlike now. And this idea isn't brand new either. Hex: Lullaby works the same way, each hook gains a token. It would work exactly the same, only this perk activates at end game once all gens pop and if a dull totem is still in play as well, on top of that.
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@Acromio i'm guessing you didn't even bother reading the thread. I spoke about this, the reason why "just do bones" isn't a valid argument is because majority of killers use NOED at low ranks vs survivors who aren't skilled enough to manage their time well enough and are usually too bad in chase, so they just do gens asap without considering NOED. Since NOED is an endgame perk, surely the killer should have to perform some criteria to get it active, as opposed to now, just losing all the gens and hoping you have a dull still up. Bloodwarden doesn't activate as soon as the doors open, the killer needs to fulfill the criteria of hooking when a door is open. Makes sense that a killer need to do something similar for NOED, since they are getting a very strong effect from this Hex. And usually underservingly so
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@Mringasa Yeah, walk away from a killer who is watching you move. Easily activates her power and appears on you. You seem very passionate about this, but seem to have missed a massive hole in your point. I've already covered this in previous responses. It isn't the issue about moving away stealthily, it's the fact that, at the time of posting, it appeared as though there was no way of telling if she was using her power or not with certain cosmetics. Trying to evade a killer who is watching you by walking away isn't a strong gameplan, mate. So with that said, the thread is pretty closed for now, since i'm taking @WRussoW's advice and applying it into my gameplay to test it out.
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@Prex91 yeah that would be how it looks in-game. Like whenever you get a hook, Lullaby gains a token, so for this NOED you'll get up to 4 tokens and that's what allows the perk to light up and activate after the end game collapse occurs.
@Milo I mentioned that in the thread, but ultimately I see it as, it's too easy for it to activate, especially since it awards Exposed effect and Haste too. It simply allows easy rank up for killers whom should still be low rank. That needs to be addressed
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@Ohnoes i'm not talking about her passive phasing. And for the time being i'm taking @WRussoW's tips and seeing if they are a solidly reliable technique to know if she is phasing. I'll give it time and once I can recognise the cues over and over and if they are accurate enough I will probably post on the thread or make a new one saying she is fine lol but if my testing comes up as unreliable then i'll do the same but saying she probably still does require looking into
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@WRussoW alrighty, i'll focus on those when I vs Spirit in a ranked match and see if it is clearer once I notice it more and more. Since pretty much every Spirit uses the cosmetics that hide/remove the shards.
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@WRussoW so, I did multiple tests on this. And yes, you're right, there is like a hiccup animation where her hair stands upright. But, this is a very hard static animation to catch. I got it wrong loads more times than I got it right, even though I knew what the cue was. It isn't that reliable. Whereas her shard glowing, I can spot them every time without fail, since they literally change from a dull grey to a bright blue. So yeah, she does have a static cue to see when she initiates phase, but good luck catching that every time in the heat of a chase. I would still push to have a 100% telltale put in. From my perspective it would improve quality of life drastically; because atm she is very obnoxious to vs
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@WRussoW alright, i'll test it on KYF and see how often I get it right, once I know the cue. I'll be back with my findings lol
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@Wesker why do people like you always ruin the thread by adding childish comments like that. I clearly know how to vs Spirit, since in my initial post I spoke about her vs mechanics quite explicitly
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@GamingHulk123 it isn't even a substantial nerf if it happens. All it would do is remove the bs factor of vsing Spirit. Whenever I vs a Spirit it feels like i'm just vsing myself, I have no idea if my movement or mindgame has worked until she pops out of phase (if she even was phasing to begin with when I guessed that she was). How can people think this would be horrible to put in the game?
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@Deadeye When it comes to the standing still issue, I only have an issue with her doing that with certain cosmetics. And also, not every map has LOS near loops for you to peel away to and mess her vision of you up. My point, as I keep saying, is with certain cosmetics there are a lot of situations in the game, which is practically the majority of the time, where you'll be in a situation where the Spirit is always gonna be in control of the chase. If a survivor has no indicator of a killer doing something then they are likely going to lose that chase. Spirit with certain cosmetics on is a pain in the ass to vs. Hence the thread, if that guy tells me what to look for and it turns out I was just unclued on the telltale then i'll hold my hands up and repost in this thread thanking him and detailing it myself as well to back it up. But if it doesn't (which I am confident of) then i'll ask again that the devs go back and rework Spirits husk mechanic, since nothing in DBD should be tipped more to one side, balance wise
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@WRussoW 99% ready, so even after seeing these noticable traits of phasing, you still aren't certain? This is my point, when Spirit uses variations of her base cosmetic (ie the bandage garments) you can 100% tell she is phasing because of the shards glowing. With the alternative costumes you're saying I have to spot an already twitchy killer make a specific kind of twitch? Please describe this specific amimation, or hiccup even, that let's the survivor know she has fully activated phase. I'll go to a KYF and see if I can successfully spot when she phases and how often I can redo that feat.
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@WRussoW Please enlighten me. You know she's phasing in every situation? Please enlighten people. Because I am yet to see any sign she is phasing when wearing the outfits that I highlighted
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@SurvJoe precisely my thinking, this change wouldn't remove her strength at all, because the survivor still has minimal knowledge of her movement in phase (grass, footsteps on certain surfaces). So once in phase, the only difference is that the Spirit actually has to think with her phase plays to actually outplay a survivor. Rather than what this so called mindgame currently is with her phases at loops
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@Marcavecunc you are talking about stuff that is irrelevant to the point I made. I know there are different kinds of playstyle with Spirit. What I was raising awareness to was the telltale function and how it has issues that remove fairness from certain aspects of chases, rescues etc vs her.
@Raptorrotas How would it remove the mindgame? I just gave explicit examples to detail that it would actually raise mindgames in her gameplay
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I can't say i've ever noticed drop in frames when status icons appear in general. My point was on about the visual effect that Sloppy Butcher has - the spurt of blood is the issue
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I'm not trying to say it's uncounterable, perks counter perks, and simple intelligence and strategies counter things too. My point for opening the thread was to see if there is a slight overlook on the devs part about the perk. Because, majority of the time I have no issue with this perk. But there are scenarios where it is just the worst thing to go against - I'll refer to the most recent Q&A where they spoke about keeping perks individually viable but synergy wise, less obnoxious (I know they were mainly speaking of slowdowns, but it isn't far out to say they can do the same for other perks too). Main reason I opened this thread is because vsing the obnoxious combos this perk, Infectious Fright, has is just the worst. Matches turn into slug simulator and can loop like this for a long time and result in a 4-man slug/hook or killer messes up the momentum and the game slowly restarts but then devolves again. This mainly happens vs the obnoxious combos such as Infinite-Tier 3 Myers, Haunted Ground Nurse/Spirit for examples sake. These combos latch together in very boring ways to vs. I'm all for both sides having fun, so when it comes to obnoxious combos and playstyles, I would look for an alternative; or in this case, a quick examination by the Devs into the perk and see if they agree or not.
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Yeah, like you're supposed to know that a killer has Infectious Fright right from the start? Talk about skipping over the point
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Simple really, there is currently a mechanic with Spirit that when she phases shards of glass in her arm and legs glow slighty when phase is fully activated. This is only clear and obvious for her basic cosmetics that don't cover her body/rearrange her shard placements.
At the moment it is impossible for a survivor in close proximity of her to know if she is using her ability, thus making it 100% guess work what she is doing. Thus making what a survivor does a complete stab in the dark gamble about their next move being wise or stupid.
Making it clear to the survivor that she has begun phasing allows an actual war of minds to happen between the survivor and killer. Does the survivor sprint a little, walk back and drop the pallet to try and bait her to thinking they moved sides? Has the spirit simply phased but stood in the same spot to bait the survivor to her side? Does the survivor walk away and hope the Spirit doesn't pop out right next to them? Do they fast vault the window and slow climb back again? Does the Spirit enter phase and pop out instantly to get a bigger lunge at the survivor? All of these now become actual plays that the survivor and killer are mutually thinking of at the same time because now the survivor knows what she is doing. It allows the killer to get further into the survivors head while the survivor is fairly allowed to get into her head. As opposed to now the survivor is at a complete loss and guessing everything without any intel to go by while the Spirit dominates the control of the situation with all the intel.
This game is all about balance, and like I said before, every killer has a clear tell tale they are using their power, thus giving survivors intel to work with when they try to loop/juke and counter them. Spirit does not have clear intel that she is using hers and making it so she does will be a healthy step towards making the game more fun, fairer and more balanced
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Bubba will be getting a redesin to add-ons and maybe power too, just like Doctor and Hillbilly too. They don't fit the ctiteria of add-on rarity that every other killer has
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Cannibal will be getting a redesign, at some point in the near future, along with Doctor, Huntress and Hillbilly. They currently don't fit the formatted criteria of what killers add-ons should be. 2 Ultra Rare, 4 Very Rare, 5 Rare, 5 Uncommon, 4 Common.
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Honestly, it is a cool idea, and if they do change Ruin, it would need to be decided on what kind of slow-down perk it would be. Do they make it an insanely strong early game perk like Doc's idea? Or do they make it a perk that rewards passively for certain criteria like my idea? Or do they look at a different aspect of it and do a combination? We all know perk changes are coming, I just hope we see a change that actually feels like you're getting use out of the perk slot (which, Hex totems right now do not)
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Yeah it is, a perk that effects skill-checks not having any quality to it that boosts what it does is odd. Look how often it is right now that survivors have done about 2 full gens and not gotten a skill-check. Unnerving Presence has this aspect to it; it'd be cool to have more perks do this. Current Lullaby, Ruin etc would benefit from this addition
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But what happens if they don't get a skillcheck? There needs to be a secondary function to it that gives it the effect it needs.
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Are you serious?
There is so much evidence to prove you wrong. First of all, map size will always be an issue, since not every map can be small otherwise it will be boring. Killers impact on generators without perks is very minimal: they take 1.5 seconds to kick and begin regression of a gen, and a survivor takes 0.05 seconds to tap the gen and halt the regression.
Genrushing isn't an illusion, it is a fact of the game being in an unbalanced state. Any skill level of survivors can do gens in the time it takes for a killer to patrol to a gen, and down someone. The typical/average game has a trade of 1 hook for 2 gens, at the start. Is that fair? A killer gets 1/12 of 100% towards winning for 1 hook - survivors get 2/5 of 100% towards winning out of that trade.
There needs to be changes to, both, mechanics of the game and perks
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@AsePlayer ahhh, yeah I think I did lol
Yeah that would be cool, only down-side would be that it alters tbe function of Hex perks. Ie the concept is that they only have an effect when the totem is still in play
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But that would be the tiniest of changes. My idea behind this perk change makes it the counter to Adrenaline and the secondary use of DS. So survivors repairing injured are somewhat slowed from getting out for free. And obviously combined with other slow-down perks like Sloppy, it would actually be a nice perk to run. Instead of being a passive throw-away perk for 90% of matches played. And survivors can't destroy the perk either which is always nice lol
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@ShoobertBlaster i've heard the progress decay idea before for exit gates; on gens it would be weird, since the killer kicks it to regress it. I think regression should have a faster impact on gens. Because atm it isn't even worth kicking a gen on 85%+ because it takes too much time to go regress, and in the time it takes you to kick it the person who ran off means you have too much distance to make up. Plus, another survivor can just swoop by and repair it. Also survivors take wayyyy less time to interupt regression than it does to be damaged. I think the amount of time it takes a killer to break it (without Brutal), should be the same time it takes a survivor to bring the gen back out of regression. So they have to sit on it for the duration of it with a secondary progress bar charging up and then when that's full the gen can start gaining progress again.
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@Devil_hit11 That's the thing, every killer excels at certain things, Doc at keeping tabs on people; Trapper and Hag at controlling certain terrirories of the map; Myers, Pig, Wraith and Ghostface at causing unease and having no detection but a deadly strike; Billy, Nurse, Freddy and Spirit at being very mobile etc etc etc but no killer should be too punished in other aspects; eg keeping gens protected (since this is a universal killer objective). Because a survivor can play in any way they desire and not have perks that boost those aspects and still have a very chill time
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@Rezblaze Dying Light isn't as strong as people think it is though. It takes 5 hooks to get 1% less than Thanataphobia with 4 stacks is - 16%. And by that time you have people dead on hook and most likely 1 or 2 gens left to defend. By the time you get any sort of passive pressure, from debuffs, you have either almost won or almost lost the game anyway ๐ 5 tokens only adds 12 seconds to gens. At end game specifically that doesn't do much in my eyes
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@Devil_hit11 yeah, I don't understand why the obsession is boosted when them sinply being alive is a boost to them. They don't suffer the debuff and the killer cannot kill them or risk losing his tokens unless obsession switches. But like I said, perks should not be what a killer needs to feel like they have passive pressure on the map
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I've heard stuff like this before, and last years Hallowed Blight did a great job at showing how much slower games can be with an additional objective to do.
Only reason I leant towards extending repair time is soley, for now, that I can't see any drastic new changes to dbd coming; with the archives and rift, I can't see a brand new change coming soon. So in that vein, I feel like an extension to gen speed in the current dbd state of play is the best way to go. It's a meme at this point that "killers play because they love to feel pain" etc so why would it be fine to leave dbd in this state for any longer?
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@Okayado Thanataphobia with 4 stacks adds 12.8 seconds to 100% of the gen repair time. That is very underwhelming and I encourage Plague players to use perks that help her intimidate and threaten every survivor. That way they will be more likely to cleanse, and if they don't, then you punish then with instadowns
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So, actually trying to play out a strategy and help yourself and the teammate escape is knowing nothing about survivor?
Everyone seems to sheep popular opinion too much. Survivors have started dcing if the killer slugs for the 4k - or they wimp-out and just wait until the killer concedes and goes for a hook or the teammate dies. Actually playing out a strategy eg working on a gen not near the patrol route, and healing up the survivor and going back to pop it, then take them on a chase or evade him until your teammate heals and then split the focus on gens. But no, survivors lose all balls when they see that the hatch is nearby and could be available to them. All they need to do is actually try to help their teammate and then play for hatch if their teammate cannot stay on their feet long enough to get doors powered. Is it effort? yes, because actually holding your own in a team based game when your team is dead is difficult. But should you try? Yes, because it's boring being boring
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@ReviloDBD a way to get a 4k without slugging is to use perks that allow you to keep tabs on the last 2. Whispers, Sloppy Butcher, Discordance, Surveilance, Nurse's Calling, Dying Light etc. These allow you to leave survivors on their feet and do the objective at a slow/hesitant rate while you look for he elusive 4th man. Keeping tabs on the vulnerable one is a very reliable strategy to get a 4k without slugging. You need to not make it blatant that you're leaving them alone on purpose though so they don't just start hiding and doing nothing too. But Whispers is your best bet if you want to find the 2 survivors at end game and 4k without slugging
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Soooo, your idea to discourage a strategy that killers feel they need to do to pip is to do the same thing that survivors do already...make no attempt to pick up the survivor on the floor and wait for hatch...great idea. Survivors actually moan about a killer wanting to kill all 4 survivors, it's almost like survivors are entitled or something ๐ค I do not care if a killer wants to slug to get a 4k vs me, because I actively try to do gens and pick my teammate up so we can both escape. How about doing that too? Actually make the killer work the extra 2mins of the match to finish us off. It isn't mind-numbingly dull for both sides and there is a bigger chance of survival than just waiting for hatch or exit gate camping and praying. If the killer has killed 2 survivors and has the 3rd at his mercy, he has every right to do whatever strategy he wants to secure a 4k. It's the survivors job to outplay him and out strategise him to escape. Wasting everyone's time is a very simple and boring attitude to have
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@themirrortwin Demogorgon is incredible ๐ so fun to play as and has a high-skill-cap to learn how to play him. He has unique mindgames in chase too ๐
His perks are designed as combos and best utilized on other killers ๐ Surge + Surveilance on stealth killers is a great perk loadout.
Cruel Limits on Plague, Huntress, Leatherface, Billy, Nurse & Spirit is devastating.
Mindbreaker on Wraith, Clown, Legion is very useful to them. It also works great on Demogorgon too, it prevents Dead Hard and Sprint Burst coming off a gen countering your Shred.
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@The_Manlet@The_Manlet His portals are awesome. They have so much mindgame capability to them. A lot of people use his portals like quick map transportation, but I think the best way to use the majority of your traps are as arena control. And use a couple in the distance to keep map presence there as precaution. But you need to remember the survivor cannot see an inactive portal, so if you know someone is going for sneaky insta-rescues or to work on a gen just damaged; teleport to an inactive portal close by to the hook/gen area and bait the rescue/repair to give you free pressure. And also use traps to cut off routes that a survivor is taking mid-chase. Appear from an angle they don't expect.
His Shred is a very effective mindgame too, if you use it at unpredictable angles of loops, leading the movement of the survivor and pouncing into their path. Also it can be used as a catch up mechanic if you have Mew's Guts, for example. Demogorgon can be a very scary multi-tasking killer if played well ๐
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@Frosty There is always bugs when a new chapter is released. Doesn't mean you can't appreciate and enjoy the new content
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The matchmaking is in the process of being fixed. This community would do well to be positive with the stuff executed well ๐ the negative things are addressed more than enough to be spoke about as much as they are. The Devs keeps up as posted as possible on things that are changing, fixing, new etc that the community shouldn't forget to be grateful for a great and fun game.
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@Th3Nightmare I agree completely, gen repair speed does need looking into and adjusting on a base level, not just perk changes and additions. But you gotta have faith in the Devs; I have been guilty of slagging them off before, moaning about the current/previous state of the game, but i'm also aware that the devs are growing with the game. They will soon make changes that balance the game properly. Not near in the future soon, but soon enough that the life of the game will not be hurt. Because afterall, Behaviour are the front-runners, the bar setters, as to what a successful Asymetrical Horror game is. DBD and the devs will keep getting it better and better
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Stick with them. The Devs are making steps in the right direction. They've said numerous times, recently, that map design changes and killer adjustments are pending. The game will be in a gold state come this time next year...gotta have faith in them ๐
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That's Monitor&Abuse