Oberon
Oberon
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- Oberon
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@Peasant said:
The removal of Survive With Friends is ill-advised at best and just petty at it's worst. While I understand that it can be frustrating to play against a group of friends in Dead by Daylight there are some key things to remember.
1.) People were already queuing with friends before SWF was officially added. Before SWF was added survivors would jump in and out of lobbies until they happened to join the same lobby and this was detrimental to everyone else as it botched queue times. Reverting the SWF addition just brings back old problems.
2.) Regardless of SWF good players are good players. Sure, a group of survivors escaping is always frustrating as killer, but they don't need to run as SWF for this to happen. There are times where you just get outplayed and even if the voice chat can help it's often not the one thing that causes you to lose.
3.) A large number of people picked up Dead by Daylight simply to play survivor with their buddies. I understand that if you main killer you might not care but look at it this way: What if on March 8th BHVR removed the ability to play as killer entirely and just added bots so you could only play as survivor. That feeling of betrayal and rage at time wasted is just what the SWF community would feel.
So my advice? Get over it. SWF groups all have the same freaking weakness of being determined to get everyone out and are often in voice chats so exploit that.
You're equating removing SWF to removing killer? Are... You're serious, aren't you?
Wow. Wowowowowow. Okay.
I'm not suggesting removing SWF. SWF is great without voice comms, imo. It's super fun and atmospheric and cool without voice comms. It's the ability to have the same information available with perks for free that is the issue.
My suggested fix: remove the incentive to play SWF by lowering the amount of BPs they gain and locking their MMR when they're SWF. Then, they can't go up or down ranks and will eventually need to play solo to make up the BP loss. SWF can still have a fun time together, but it lowers the SWF groups playing at any one time.
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@CashelP14 said:
I know personally I wouldn't be playing this game if it wasn't for swf. Purely because playing solo survivor is horrible with how bad some players are.
I always say that people are forced to become swf teams at higher ranks due to the fact the randoms your matched with are usually really bad.
Also the information gained by an swf isn't the reason it's so strong. Yes it helps a lot but the fact you usually have a full team of good players is why it's so strong.
I always said the game should buff solo survivor to give them the same info a team gets, while in the same patch buff killers overall.
And that's also a completely viable solution. I'd be interested to see what kinds of buffs would help balance killers against that, but I do think solo survivors have a tough time competing in the current meta.
Tbf, solo survivors have a better horror experience, tho
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No, I get the point that you're trying to make, but it doesn't work.
The hex affects the survivors by regressing the generators that they're working on. Yes, it regresses the generators, but that regression affects the survivors. Therefore, it affects the survivors by regressing the generators...
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It affects the survivor's gameplay by regressing the gens... It becomes a hindrance once they start working on gens...
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Imagine thinking playing with a friend makes someone a good player.
Imagine thinking that being in constant communication with another player doesn't provide a tangible advantage to both of them...
Also, it completely ruins the atmospheric horror intent of DBD. Let's not forget that it cheapens the experience.
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It affects the survivors once they touch the gens. Before they start working, nothing can regress.
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The Hex is revealed once it starts affecting the survivors. You don't get a notification from NOED or Devour Hope until they first affect the survivors with an instadown. You shouldn't get a notification from Ruin until you start working on a gen.
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@KingOfBadRNG said:
1st swf was always designed to be in the game the survivors mains didn't cry or anything like that.
2nd solo ques fun ha good joke I've been played solo for around 2 years and it's still more stressful than killer unless you have decent teammates because you have to carry the team.
3rd- discord seriously all game console have party chats since xbox360 and it's not going to change if you hate it so much go play on the switch or something.
I get the feeling you're a survivor main and atmospheric horror isn't a big draw for you. Cool.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1128685#Comment_1128685
Dividing the player base into competitive and casual ques would be a disaster for que times.
Not saying dividing the player base. Just that SWF groups don't gain or lose MMR and receive fewer BP. They can still load up in the main queue. They'd just be internally flagged to receive fewer BP and not receive an MMR change.
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@thrawn3054 said:
While I don't disagree that it's an issue. What do you want the devs to do? Removing swf is not an option at this point. They can't control voice coms. They could add voice coms to the game. But I think the majority of players would refuse to use it.
Casual play with SWF: reduced BP, no MMR change.
Competitive play out of SWF: increased BP, full MMR tracking.
Simple enough.
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@toxcitynacl said:
"Killers may have access to moris, but survivors can get keys, styptic, and the syringe." Keys are good, but styptic and the syringe are basically trash since the rework.
Regardless of your opinions on those add-ons, the sheer amount of survivor second chance perks clearly skews the game in the survivors' favor. They have nine to choose from at any give time, and every survivor can run four of them. A killer who doesn't care about slowing down gens or downing survivor can run four. That's sixteen second chances against four situational second chances (especially hex perks and blood warden).
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Okay... I had a reply on here, but it disappeared.
Basically, gen speeds are too fast/survivors don't have enough objectives. Survivors can each slot 4 second chance perks. That's 16 second chances for the killer to deal with, and they have nine to choose from. The killer gets 4 second chance perks to choose from, and they're racing against the clock.
Killers may have access to moris, but survivors can get keys, styptic, and the syringe.
With the amount that a killer has to do in a single trial, that's too much.
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I agree that both are second chance features of the game, but I would argue against it being wholly balanced for the following reasons:
- Gen speeds/pressure. We all recognize that there's an issue. Survivors aren't required to do enough to escape. A competent group of survivors can escape with 3/4 every time. Easy. Killers have to struggle and fight for every inch, so it's frustrating to see survivors have a final second chance to escape after the killer did everything in their power to prevent it. Killers have to juggle more than survivors do, and they have to plan much further ahead than survivors. The furthest survivors have to plan ahead is to avoid a possible 3-gen.
- Second chance opportunities for survivors. Survivors have a ton of second chance opportunities. Between Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Deliverance, Adrenaline, and Unbreakable. Not to mention Lithe, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing, and Sprint Burst (Head On may be exhaustion, but I wouldn't consider it second chance). Oh, AND Styptic Agent, Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe, and Keys.
- In contrast, Killers have the following second chance perks: Devour Hope (if it isn't broken), Blood Warden (if you can activate it), Remember Me (if you get your stacks and the survivors aren't coordinated), NOED (if it isn't broken). Moris are available, too, but unless you're lucky, they only affect one survivor; whereas, a key can provide an out for everyone.
The disparity is real. Sure, killers have instadowns, but while they're using up time chasing and downing a survivor, gens are being done. And with nine possible second chance perks across four survivors PLUS second chance items or add-ons vs. the killer's four? Yeah, taking keys out of the game wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to survivors.
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But, but... If they weren't toxic, then how could they bully the Killer?
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@Endstille said:
Oh please stop victimizing killers.
OoO is a fun perk to goof around with friends. The drawback is obviously that you can see the obsession and that is a huge downside if the killer knows where you are. I hate to say it to you but killing yourself on hook, you ruin the game for everybody else and you obviously do not care about the fun of other people.
Killer who feel powerless shouldn't play killer, they are the power role and need to get good.
"They are the power role"
You haven't played killer lately have you? The killer has to struggle constantly to make up for everything the survivors are capable of accomplishing. Between gen speeds and second chance perks, the killer starts the game in a position of weakness, hunting for survivors and desperately trying to stop gen progression; meanwhile, survivors start the game in a position of strength. Especially with SWF (as it gives them three free aura reading perks).
Regardless of whether OoO should exist, the game is heavily tilted toward survivors. Play killer at prime time in the mid to high ranks, and you'll learn.
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@hex_genrush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1128219#Comment_1128219
Do you t bag at exit gates and do the cheeky ds locker play?
Cheeky DS locker plays are valid. Annoying, but valid.
Teabagging is straight up BM, though. That's like a killer M1ing a hooked survivor. Just poor form, bud.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1128196#Comment_1128196
no you care for other players not feeling bad about using scummy tactics, and you dont want them to feel bad because if they do not you got peers, people like yourself, so then you dont have to feel bad (even though you know perfectly well what you are doing is anti social/self centered/sad)
And I dont look at who makes the posts.
"scummy tactics"
SCUMMY TACTICS
You don't want to die? Don't play DEAD BY DAYLIGHT.
You want to try and survive? Cool. You might not have a killer play by your imaginary rules, though.
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@Zamblot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125220#Comment_1125220
Wow I skim read your post first and didn't realise you think that playing with friends and voicechat is cheating. How in god's name is it cheating if developers are all for it. You don't hear any developers saying that you shouldn't do it and they support it by adding SWF when practically anyone playing with friends is voicechatting. Why the ######### would I want to play with my friends if we weren't speaking, that would LITERALLY be like playing with strangers. You people are so illogical and blame the game on your lack of skill. Hate the player not the game, if you don't like it go but no one wants you here trying to ruin everyone's fun. Sure you may be unsociable and have no friends to play games with but don't try taking everyone else's ability to play with their friends away. I assure you if SWF was taken away you would have an even less enjoyable experience as people would go off dead by daylight so fast. Multiplayer games are meant to be sociable activities so take away the ability to play with friends and it's just utter #########. Go play a single player game if you have no one to play with but don't try to blame other people for your lack of social skills and inability to accept people enjoy speaking to their friends while playing
The developers are only "all for it" because being against it would kill off their player base, and therefore, their revenue stream. With a four to one ratio, the developers will always try to keep the survivor mains happy because it's those players that bring in the most money to them. Killer mains are literally not as valuable as survivor mains to the developers, so they care less about their enjoyment and balance.
But what happens when killers start leaving the game? Queue times increase, killer skill decreases, and survivors start quitting. They're creating a death spiral for their own game by focusing inordinately on the survivors.
SWF was controversial among killers when it first came out. It was controversial for all of the reasons that are being stated now:
- It destroys the atmosphere. When you can chat with other players in real time, telling them where the killer is and what they're doing, you remove the horror aspect of the game. There's not anticipation. No dread. No anxiety. The game becomes a gen/press 'W' simulator without any "horror."
- It provides SWF players the advantages of Bond, Empathy, and Deja Vu without having to run those perks. You know where the other survivors that you're speaking with are at all times. You know how many pallets they're using in real time. You know where they've been injured and where they're heading to. You know where the other gens are based on them telling you. The real problem is that killers have learned to work around SWF. If the game ever reverted, the Killer who have had to deal with it would be far better than the current survivor base.
- If you think the game's boring without SWF, then it wasn't your type of game to begin with. You don't like playing atmospheric horror games. You like playing team games with voice chat. DBD was not made to be that. The developers included it because it was requested by players who couldn't do well on their own or didn't enjoy the game as it was. They caved to the player base with the most money because money.
tl;dr: SWF destroyed the atmosphere because survivor mains didn't actually enjoy atmospheric horror, and the devs caved because money.
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@ruler33 said:
the only reason you can play the game is because of those awful awful survivor mains think before you say something
The only reason survivors can play is because of killer mains. If the devs keep this up, survivor wait times are gonna get awful long.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Oh please. More than anything else survivors hate camping and tunneling. Yet its still in the game for killers to do to their hearts content. Its definitely not all about survivors fun
I don't condone camping. Patrolling in the area of a hook is cool, but camping is out.
But tunneling? When a survivor gets pulled off a hook and then runs right in me, I'm going to knock them back down. That's not tunneling. That's taking advantage of the time I have because generators go by way too quickly.
There's no stress for survivors anymore. No fear. Survivors know how to loop the killer and eat of their time until the gens are done.
The horror aspect is honestly not there anymore. There's nothing for survivors to fear.
On the other hand, killers are constantly stressed by and afraid of the ticking clock that is the generators. One missed hit. One pallet slam. One single misplay, and the survivors snowball through the game.
It's a nightmare.
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@Cable2486 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106143#Comment_1106143
So your best argument is to present single perks and semi-effective counters? And drop pallets early? You act as if a killer is required to break them. As to Survivor perks:
Dead hard, for example, can be countered simply by faking a Survivor out or bringing Unrelenting to decrease swing time.
Franklin's + Overwhelming Presence + Unnerving should fix your toolbox issues nicely
Hiding from BBQ in a locker? Cool. Iron Maiden solves that nicely.
Sabotage issues, swarming rescuers, and hook blockers? Mad grit + Agitation + Iron Grasp, or Hangman's Trick
Deathslingers new hex plus Haunted ground + any other hex perk make life easier than ever.
Exhaustion perks? Gen rushing? Cool as well. Discordance + Mindbreaker + Surge
I can do this all day. The point is, a killers perks aren't what counters a Survivors perks: it's their powers + add-ons. Perks just offer fine tuning and alter play style.
Are you really suggesting that killers slot 3/4 perks to counter one specific situation?
Countering for toolboxes sacrifices gen slowdown and pressure perks.
Countering for sabo sacrifices gen slowdown and pressure perks.
And that Discordance/Mind Breaker/Surge combo sacrifices pressure for single gen/target focus. You lose gens across the map by focusing on a single target because news flash: even if Discordance pops, you can only chase one survivor at a time!
There need to be additional objectives. Or gens need to be locked behind an objective. Before a survivor can start repairing a gen, they must perform such and such interaction.
Anything to keep killers from losing two gens in the first 90 seconds of the game on Mother's Dwelling. Something to balance the playing field.
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For the People feels way too strong. Survivors still have bottled time. Working broken is nothing to a good survivor with a full second chance loadout.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1100622#Comment_1100622
He might have forgotten a 0. Otherwise he's been "shelving" the game for most of its life.
I can only play between 3-6 hours a week depending on my schedule. I have a life. The time I spend playing is valuable, so I want it to be enjoyable. This is currently not that
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I work 9-5, and I've got other interests. So, when I decide to play, I just want to have an enjoyable game. 2-3 sacrifices without SWF teams feeding my movements to each other or the gens being done before I can get anything done.
I especially don't want to deal with teabagging, flashlight clicking, vault spamming, and post chat taunting. And those are generally the SWF groups, anyway.
With all of the second chance perks, playing killer just isn't entertaining, especially with the limited time that i have to play.
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Well, if the killer has downed the survivor, then that's already an increase of 10%. Assuming it took them one minute to do so on larger maps or with stealthier survivors, then that's an increase of 20%. Thirty more seconds, and the survivors are back to standard progression speed. That makes it completely unreasonable to camp as the speed will only increase past standard as the killer is camping, making the mid and late game more challenging for them.