NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924799#Comment_924799
I see your point, however, survivors can still be overpowering without bringing a thing. Since they still have access to perks and addons to go on top of that, I think it is still fair for a good killer to have good addons too. There is no reason Nurse, Demo, and Oni have bad ultra rares.
Nurse Demo and Oni are all powerful Killers on their own that can handle those Survivors you are talking about. Having super amazing ultra rares on top of that would be too much.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924819#Comment_924819
Dare I ask what is in Section 7 sub section 5?
Just some rules and regulations.
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@AAAAA said:
How has this thread turned into both Trusteds discussing their terms or their service and some people sharing some... unusual fetishes...
Pretty sure butt is a normal fetish
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924725#Comment_924725
Food for thought, but she's also missing an ultra rare and a very rare. You could add some of those as add-ons without replacing one another. I think refunding successful hatchets would make a great very rare.
It would.
I was thinking either a Very Rare with a downside or limitation (such as a cooldown) or an Ultra Rare with neither of those.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924603#Comment_924603
No changes. I think Ultra Rares should have little to no downside. The reduction of so many hatchets are almost too much, requiring another addon. It's way too ez to dodge a long throw hatchet making the addon useless if you did that. All your recent killers, including the nurse rework have the worst ultra rares in the game. Their downside is so great that I would never use them and I would put them on par with a brown addon. Killer addons need buffing not nerfing.
Super amazing addons for either side is always a bad thing.
Both Killers and Survivors have a finite power budget, and going outside of that power budget makes that thing OP and unfun to play against.
Since a Killer is both his/her power combined with whatever addons they bring, that means that the base kit combined with the addons need to be within the power budget, as a direct consequence of this the base kit needs to be weaker than it could be so that addons don't make them OP. More importantly the stronger the addons the weaker the base kit has to be in order to compensate.
This is how you get addon dependent Killers like Trapper, Legion or Leatherface.
And if you ignore this and give the Killer strong addons anyway then when those addons are taken the game breaks.
This is how you get things like old Prayer Beads Spirit or old Instant Heal Squads.
TLDR: Strong Killers imply weak addons by necessity in order to maintain balance. Thus you want a Killers addons to always be as weak as possible.
Freddy is a great example of this in action. His addons are meh, yet he himself is a great Killer that doesn't need addons anyway.
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Ok one major issue:
The camera starts behind the Survivor, this means if you position the camera correctly, the inner cone of the camera will completely surround them. Additionally, if that doesn't work for some reason (such as the possible fix of only counting the cone where the camera passes through the Survivor) it is still possible for multiple Survivors on a gen to cover all possible directions at once, again making them completely safe.
Some generators such as the upstairs generator in hawkins can be covered with just a single Survivor due to them only having a single entrance.
This means that a SWF group can stick together in order to ensure that they can complete every generator with 0 chance of ever being downed even if they straight up never even try to run from the Killer.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924733#Comment_924733
Hence why I included the TL;DR version below all of that. 😝
ikik. I'm reading it now. You'll see any feedback on the thread itself
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924478#Comment_924478
I'd Happily sell my soul if the devs also agreed to use my favorite, and most well balanced (imo) killer concept in game as well:
Too much backstory text REEEEEEEEEEE /s
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@Peanits said:
The tell I feel is pretty obvious. Once you see someone go down from healthy once, you know she's using it. Ideally you don't want to get hit by a hatchet even if she's not using it, so it's not really a "too little too late" situation.
Anyway, I'd be totally okay with that personally. The most interesting idea I've heard was to make long range hatchets (>24m or 32m) instantly down people. That way it stays powerful, but requires a lot more skill to use and has way more counterplay. What do y'all have in mind?
Personally I would ditch the instant down effect entirely.
In my addon rework thread I suggested:
- Hatchets Pierce through Survivors and apply on hit effects (aka: Anything that says it triggers on a basic attack)
Of course that's really weak for an Ultra Rare, which in the addon rework was the point, but here isn't going to cut it.
So maybe have successful hatchet hits auto-refund?
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@Elvenmonk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/919127#Comment_919127
Maybe not your friends but mine are all ex mk ultra.
Ex mk ultra friends cannot communicate information they do not have.
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@Tesseract said:
Use PWYF and he's actually not too bad. (No addons required either.)
Nemesis is a PWYF buff, so this actually works much better now.
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@dooces said:
75% killer win rate, and you want more buffs to what? take the survivors 25% down to 10%? 5%? talking about any killer needing a buff is hilarious.
First of all it's not 75%.
Second of all that's the Kill rate. Not the winrate.
If you get 1 Kill every game you have a Kill rate of 25% but a win rate of 0% for example.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/923167#Comment_923167
Player numbers mean everything. At the end of the day, the game came out on Discord over a year ago, and was DOA. Now it's on Steam, and it's also DOA. Literally two releases, both DOA. It means the world.
Ok but a 100% completely ######### game can still have cool ideas that other games can use as inspiration. So those numbers would be important if the claim was "Last year is going to overtake DBD" or "Last year is a superior Asymmetrical Horror game" (although even then that's subjective and wouldn't be something you prove with numbers anyway). However in this case the claim is that "Last year has some cool mechanics that I'd like to see equivalents of in DBD". Which isn't something the player count can be used to contest on it's own.
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@BoneFish said:
So why play Oni when you can play Billy?
They both offer the same thing except Billy just does it better. They both close gaps with their dash and they both have an insta-down. The difference is that Billy can do it whenever he wants and Oni has to charge his power.
What MADE Oni different than Billy before the nerf was that his dash was objectively better because he was able to flick easily into a down while being extremely mobile, with the downside of it not being available at all times.
So what, now he's just a worse Billy? I mean do you honestly think his dash is that much better than Billy's to even warrant him having to charge it up? It might seem like it is on face value but in reality it just lets you get close enough to try to land a really slow M1 that is jukeable. You're not hitting any good survivor with that crap consistently.
I might as well just run after them with billy and charge my chainsaw. Atleast I can do it whenever I want.
To you and everyone else that is saying the dash is removed.
READ THE OP TO THIS THREAD.
The flick is still there. It's 90*
There was a bug that let you go above 90* by altering your controls to get up to 180*. If you don't alter your controls at all then you would not have seen this anyways.
That bug has been fixed. The specifics behind the fix ended up making the intended Flick, which still possible, feel kinda bad and hard to use. They are already working on a solution for this and the OP specifies what the problem is and how they are solving it.
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@SmuggsBunny addons look good?
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@Aceonfire said:
"We prefer to analyze a character for some time after release, before buffing or nerfing them"
Or in layman's terms,
"Thank you for alpha testing our product and doing our jobs for us. In return, We appreciate customer's like you who don't desire to purchase a finished product: please accept our massively overpriced cosmetics and the fact there are key features that adversely affect all aspects of the game which we will continue to ignore, as a show of our appreciation".
Those.... aren't layman's terms.
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I added the addons.
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@SmuggsBunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/922200#Comment_922200
About the perks, you made a good point. I wanted to think of the perks against experienced players, and I was thinking about how they could get around the perks or something in that sense.
About the Killer itself though? I don't know. Maybe if the killer could place the terror radius in a Hotspot, or have the mist off and on in loops to give the survivor limited view? The power could be powerful. If the killer has the red light on while in the mist though, that could take away the whole stealth aspect of the power.
I would like to see a drawing or a concept of what the Shadow looks like, y'know, is it human or a being? Just curious.
When I was making this I kept going back and forth on if he would have a red light or not.
I ended up not having it be automatically suppressed because it would be hard to see it in the mist anyways (since it's monochrome making it gray) and because he can manually suppress it if needed by locking the mist.
As for what the shadow looks like, definitely pitch black such that you wouldn't be able to see any human features (although he's humanoid). Kinda like some depictions of the grim reaper minus the scythe. Other than that I don't really have much of a vision, I never really cared for aesthetics regarding this sort of thing. I'm far more interested in the mechanical side of things.
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@SmuggsBunny said:
I feel like Creeping Dread would help experienced survivors more than it would hinder them. Maybe make the skill check an "Overcharge" -like skill check.
For Twilight Approaches, it would probably be a waste of a perk slot after the first 3 chases. Maybe you could increase the tokens or make it a Hex perk.
Ravenous Hunter, I think that's good. Like a faster Play With Your Food without having to act awkward to get one stack.
Other than that, I think the rest is cool! Nice idea
Btw what about the Killer? You've only commented on the perks.
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@SmuggsBunny said:
I feel like Creeping Dread would help experienced survivors more than it would hinder them. Maybe make the skill check an "Overcharge" -like skill check.
For Twilight Approaches, it would probably be a waste of a perk slot after the first 3 chases. Maybe you could increase the tokens or make it a Hex perk.
Ravenous Hunter, I think that's good. Like a faster Play With Your Food without having to act awkward to get one stack.
Other than that, I think the rest is cool! Nice idea
The function of Creeping Dread isn't to create a skill check which the Survivor will mess up on, but to create a skill check that distracts the Survivor. Remember it's distance based. So you'd approach them as a stealth Killer for a sneak attack and then the Survivor would have their attention drawn to a skill check JUUUST as your about to jump out and hit them. If it was an overcharge skill check then it would be a warning instead of a distraction.
Or as some other non-stealth Killer the Skill Check comes just as your about to get too close, forcing the Survivor to either miss the Skill check or wait to complete it giving you extra distance on them.
Twilight Approaches is stronger than you are likely giving credit. It's a perk that gives you a boost in your first 3 chases, which is the most critical point in the game as that's where Survivors have the ability to complete generators the fastest.
I could still buff it anyways, but it wouldn't be with more tokens.
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
You hear that @Peanits @not_Queen ????
You don't?
Damn, Im hearing a lot of negative feedback on this change.
Not because we don't like it, but because this was too much on Oni, you basically made his power have no skill anymore and kinda lied about his turn rate, so there is another lie again, you cannot "freely" move you camera movement until at the very end of the Demon strike when coming out of Demon dash. Which, you don't have enough time at the end to freely move.
"Our design team is planning on changing the turn rate ratio to improve on the feeling of the Dash, allowing you to freely move your camera within the limit. This will be included in a later update."
it would be lying if you in fact WERE able to move the camera freely the entire time. Because they explicitly said this is upcoming.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/921796#Comment_921796
Well I mean like any minor opening to the survivor’s hitbox if said survivor is using a surface to potentially block a hit... the killer has to aim above that currently but back then it just locked in as a hit.
ok... but whats your point? Regardless of changes to stuff like that it's not hard to hit Survivors and dodging is practically impossible. Sure you sometimes 360 a Killer, but if you know about it then it's not hard to hit a 360ing Survivor, and you aren't going to be surprised as the Survivor when it happens.
The tools Survivors can use to prevent the Killer from hitting you are (baring Killer specific stuff):
- Running tiles (looping or just running to a pallet/window, using it and immediately leaving)
- Stealth
- Mindgames
- Jukes (the transition from being chased to stealth)
Of those jukes at the least reliable
Looping is the most reliable
and Stealth is the most effective when it works (since it wastes the Killers time but you can get back to a gen faster)
Changes to infinites as reduced the reliability of looping, but nothing has fundamentally changed about that list.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/921702#Comment_921702
You could literally be behind the killer... he’d swing and you’d get hit. Everything connected back then automatically :P
I didn't contest that. I just said it didn't matter because it's not hard to spin and hit them anyways even though it's not currently like that.
What I DID contest is hitting though obstacles such as solid walls. There might be a bug to that effect but it definitely wasn't a serious mechanic outside of windows.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/912870#Comment_912870
People criticise infinites (which they should have been gone) but the way killer’s had a 360 auto-aim... it was the only way to avoid getting hit back then xd.
The killer basically hit the survivor no matter the direction they were in/obstacle in the way if they got just close enough to the survivor.
Killers could never hit though objects unless you are talking about windows or specific bugged situations. And 360ing isn't something you should expect to save you anyways.
Distance has always been how you avoid getting hit, and removing infinites didn't change that. The only difference is that now it's possible for a non-potato Survivor to fail.
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@Callmehandsome said:
If oni flick was unintended, why did you only nerf it first from PTB instead of removing it completely like you did now..?
They didn't. The flick is 90* right now. The bug was that you could bypass that limit and get 180* flicks
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@Spooky13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/919963#Comment_919963
Compared to the other killers, Demo is definitely the cutest. He just wants some snuggles!
He's certainly up there with piggy
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But I want them to use the fountain. As the Plague I mean.
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@rch614 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/919241#Comment_919241
Using perks to correct issues (specific issues...not like looping or windows) are band aids / lazy fixes until they get around to fixing the underlying causes.
For example, the changes to Balanced Landing (note: the nerf itself) is a bandaid fix to map design they will get around to in the future. Regardless of whether or not we think it needed a nerf, fact is they nerfed the perk instead of fixing core issues with map design. Matter of fact, before Balanced Landing was even added, survivors used to have no stagger so they added stagger and then had BL remove it.
This isn't a perk, but Bloodlust is also a bandaid fix to, again, map design and "infinites". It helps killers deal with it, but doesn't fix the core issue. Like the Kindred buff is doing now. It helps solo survivors but doesn't fix solo experience on its own and requires a perk slot to even function.
I don't see how the BL nerf is a bandaid fix.
Any problems it solved were only problems when BL was in play, otherwise a nerf to BL could not possibly have solved it. And a change to the basic mechanics that fixes problematic loops is a valid long term solution, as it reliably makes the issue go away.
Something is only bad map design relative to the mechanics of the game it's a map for. So a map that's badly designed without a stagger, that same map could be a well designed map WITH a stagger. The issue with BL here is that it means all maps would need to be balanced both with and without a stagger, which is both much harder and more limiting. But removing the possibility of that fixes the issue entirely.
The reason we say that something like Bamboozle is a bandaid fix is because it's not something that will exist in ever game, making it a poor solution to the issue even if it is a quick one. However if they had just increased Killer vault speed again then it would NOT be a bandaid solution, since the maps would now be perfectly fine given the new vault speed.
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918798#Comment_918798
So you think green ranks vs red ranks is OK? The intelligence is not strong with this one.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918887#Comment_918887
Have you played nurse since the nerf? She has fatigue, cooldowns, and no lunge to speak of, plus SWF will just tell them that I'm coming back.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/919061#Comment_919061
I've got no problem with flashlight blinds, I DO have a problem with being able to hide outside of a killers vision, with them facing a wall, and still get the blind off.
Nurses Lunge was not changed by the nerf. The fatigue was already there. SWF won't be able to communicate that you are coming back in time, since going back just means you start charging your blink while chasing the initial would be flashlight save... and then spin around to blink the otherway towards the slugged Survivor. If someone is there you can immediately hit them, they wouldn't have had time to run since they all thought you were chasing the other person, including said other person.
SWF can't communicate information they don't have. They don't know what you will do before you've done it.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918887#Comment_918887
Not basically lol. They literally have to start the blind before you start the pickup and you have to let it happen.
My point exactly.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
i’mma pitch in to BVHR and say make his 90 degree turn normal and if he’s “overperforming” don’t change the flick but the lunge of the his basic attack in fury (Otherwise then obvs he’s just fine)... honestly seems fine for the killer to get a 90 degree flick... makes him unique.
His 90* turn IS normal.
The bug was that you could go even MORE than 90 degrees.
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918762#Comment_918762
And when they have two other buddies with flashlights? Chase one, and the other two heal the slug. Try to come back, and one of those becomes bait and the other guy comes back. I understand all of the tactics, but when they have communication and the tools to defeat them, it's really damned difficult and frustrating to deal with.
You are Nurse, if they are healing then you can be back and immediately hit them before they have time to react. You don't need to chase them THAT far, just far enough that they can't pick up the downed player, you can still blink back and hit whoever went for the heal.
Alternatively, next time you enter a lobby with a bunch of flashlights equip lightborn. I know we all forgot that perk exists, but it basically makes you immune to flashlights. If they are giving you that much trouble then it's worth the slot, especially since you can see what items they are bringing in advance, so it's not like you randomly are bringing it "just in case" everygame, you just bring it when you know you'll need it.
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918637#Comment_918637
Nurse is why. If you get survivors that know how to play her, they can run you long enough to get their buddy up, especially when they're running you into head on stuns. If I was using meyers, I would have taken advantage of their boldness and used EWIII to slug them.
Nurse shouldn't be an issue, even with the nerf they can't run you for very long without putting a lot of distance between them and the downed Survivor, at which point you can turn around and pick them up since they can't flashlight save in time.
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918544#Comment_918544
I tried this. You're thinking about this like a group that is doing archives and wanting to escape, not a group of toxic bullies that planned out exactly how to screw with the killer. The mere fact that there are perks and add on's that would allow survivors to be this OP is a serious failing on the part of BHVR. The fact that I was playing 6 ranks out of my league is a serious failing on the part of BHVR. Again, if I was playing a killer with an instadown, this would have been a different game.
If they aren't optimizing for escape then it should be easier to stop them from doing so.
Why exactly did slugging not work? Even if they keep trying to pick each other up you can hurt them faster than they can heal.
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My advice would be to slug you.
They are waiting for you to pick them up so they can go for a flashlight save, so just don't pick them up and go after the person waiting for the save. If they try to loop you then you can turn around and pick up the downed player before they can get back. If multiple Survivors swarm you in order to prevent this then no one is doing gens so you still can win.
The way to beat Survivors trying this sort of thing is always to not play into their hands and to keep your cool.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917734#Comment_917734
It would be easier if there was some lore
Sorry but I suck at lore
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@Waffleyumboy said:
The red add ons are great, the perks are well designed but The Lonely Path targets the obsession instead of trying to save them for last. I don't see how the new basekit could be exploited, this is a really cool and fun idea :)
Thanks! Any ideas on addon names?
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Discordance is an early game tracking perk.
Surveillance is a mid to late game tracking perk.
They are both superior at their respective functions.
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@anarchy753 said:
Oman is a country, an omen is a warning.
Oops
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@snozer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/912870#Comment_912870
False, pallet breaking is over all slower since they nerfed brutal strength while "buffing" base pallet breaking speed.
We can never get the same break speed back because the values of brutal strength do not match the previous iteration when added to the base breaking speed buff.
Brutal strength is not a core mechanic.
Basekit pallet breaking speed is.
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I added addons and perks to the Suggestion.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/916083#Comment_916083
Okay, and thanks :)
Take another look now plz
@TAG said:
Seems like Deerstalker would be a must-have on this Killer. Get close, give them an oman, mark them, wait for them to go down, then Deerstalker effectively renders the speed boost and removal of scratch marks/blood pools meaningless.
Fixed. If the Survivor is still down after 30 seconds then I'm perfectly fine with the Killer being able to use a perk to see them.
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Here's what I changed:
- MS is now 105% instead of 110%
- TR is now 20 instead of 16
- Applying an Oman now Roots both the Killer and Survivor.
- Omans no longer inflict Hindered but will now instead reveal their aura to ALL players including the Killer.
- The Killer now gains MS over time depending on how many Players have Omans. 15% extra MS per Survivor. This is disabled while a Survivor without an Oman is in the TR. Yes the Whispers esc effect this has is intended.
- Survivors can stack on each other to remove Omans much faster. 3 Survivors is disproportionately fast.
- Marking a Survivor for death inflicts blindness on the Killer for 30 seconds.
Why:
Basically, the intention here is that the Killer is supposed to be particularly effective against isolated targets, thus forcing Survivors to group up at which point the inherent benefits of dealing with grouped Survivors still ensures he has an advantage.
By making Omans easy to remove together but impossible to remove alone this can be achieved, but there is a problem I realized, specifically that if Survivors ARE split up then he still can't really capitalize on it all that well, and since part of how he makes Survivors want to group is that he can Mark a Survivor with an Oman and then strike a bit later (during which time they have a chance to act) he effectively has built in down time.
This somewhat reminded me of how OG Freddy played, and THAT reminded me of Freddy's strong suit, specifically how much control he had over the game once he finally got everyone asleep. Using something like that I can make it so going around to separate people to put Omans on everyone can give a similar appeal.
But of course this has a problem, since if I just make it aura reading and stealth then you could just loop him like normal as an Oman even if I made him a normal 115%, and then just wait until the Killer leaves to reposition for an Ambush. Thus I made it so he could become a 120% or more against a Survivor with an Oman. Unlike applying Hindered like I did before, this way he can use that speed to patrol as well.
Having it disable with a Survivor in the TR has 3 benefits:
- The Whispers effect is great for further enabling a roaming playstyle, and also is one of the tracking methods that can be countered by grouping due to it not saying how many Survivors are in the Area
- A Survivor without an Oman will still be pressured to find a friend, since if they get caught out while someone already has an Oman then the Killer can immediately apply an Oman and start chasing them with an already enhanced movement speed
- A Survivor that is not isolated is not vulnerable to this tactic, since while they are rooted a buddy can hide keeping the Killers MS bonus disabled preventing a quick down.
Some other reasons behind changes:
- Omans reveal the Survivors aura to other Survivors so Solo's can utilize that information to properly get together in order to help each other. Otherwise SWF would be the only ones that can properly fight the Killer.
- The Killer is inflicted with blindness to put a cap on his fairly large snowball potential and also to ensure Deerstalker doesn't negate the risk factor behind Marking a Survivor for Death.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/915963#Comment_915963
I still don't know how the survivors grouping up is going to stop you from downing a marked survivor
it won't baring body blocking. It just makes it harder to capitalize on in general.
Regardless though I'm about to rework a lot of this concept, so bear with me for a second.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/915694#Comment_915694
Why did you ignore me. If you get within 12m of a survivor I doubt another survivor can channel on them for 8 seconds.
If you immediately chase no, but it will take a bit before it starts to become a large advantage in catching up.
And basically the intention is this:
When you place an Oman on a Survivor it makes them Oblivious, but since they are notified you can't take advantage of it.
The Hindered effect takes time to build up (I'll alter it cuz I'm realizing I overdid that portion of the power a bit) so that further incentivizes going off for a bit to find them again later.
The Hindered effect could even be replaced if I come up with a better alternative (maybe aura reading?)
However if there is a second person then they can remove the effect, forcing the Killer to try and go in without as much set up, the eventual result is Survivors being forced to group up in order to Survive.
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@Ksoni said:
No counterplay at all. After picking this perk that shows you auras of dying survs within 36 meters its the same killer as old legion with sloppy and bloodhunt.
The counterplay exists but is the opposite of most Killers. You need to group up so you can quickly remove Omans or pick up Survivors after they become marked.
Unlike the Majority of Killers where it's better to split up.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Legion rework?
No. This is the opposite of the Legions function.
Legion is specialized on dealing with Groups.
This Killer is specialized on dealing with isolated targets.
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That's not how strategies work.
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I run Kindred and don't see any Killers camping.
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If a Survivor gets injured but still takes another 30 seconds before going down then I know I'm going to want them back up