NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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Ok so mostly looks good.
Some things to note:
- Hour 1's haste effect is always active. It would thus make sense to just put that down as the base speed (4.7) and then have Hour 1 just be the base form with no alterations. Btw the flat haste increase is 0.1 M/S
- Hour 3's broken effect being every other attack is a bit counterproductive. It would feel terrible if when going after people it worked out that you were only giving injured Survivors the broken effect (at which point it doesn't matter anyways cuz they are downed). I'd make it 15 seconds on EVERY basic attack.
- Midnights effects translated into flat values btw is 1.1 M/S (or just 1 M/S if we make the base 4.7) and 8.5 meter TR. The speed is fine (5.7 M/S total btw) but the terror radius seems slightly too small considering it. I'd bump it up to 12 meter TR increase for a total of 40 meters.
- Next thing regarding Midnight. The missed attack penalty is a little pointless. It's only 7% so it's not really doing anything and this is his moment of power anyways. I'd just remove it.
- Finally there is the deep wounds effect. This guy isn't like legion, he's not a stall Killer but an agro Killer more like oni. Deep wounds doesn't fit here. What I would do is instead take the broken effect from hour 3 and put it here at 30 seconds.
- Lastly I wouldn't disable hour 2's effect at midnight. Rather I would just disable it AFTER midnight. That way he keeps the increased lunge range during the 30 seconds.
To sum everything up:
Base stats 4.7 M/S and 28 meter TR
Hour 1 is baseline with no change
Hour 2 is the lunge increase (which is perfect btw)
Hour 3 is broken on hit 15 seconds
Midnight is 5.7 M/S and 40 meter TR, 30 second on hit broken, 60% CDR on basic attacks and aura reading at a distance (come to think of it 16 meters might not be enough wiggle room. It may need to be a lot more such as "Survivors outside of your terror radius"). Goes away after 30 seconds.
Last thing to think about would be addons.
Good things to alter with addons would be:
Time between hours
Duration of midnight
Duration of hour 3 broken
Duration of midnight broken
Midnight MS
Midnight terror radius
Midnight aura reading (assuming it's not being tied to the TR)
Midnight basic attack CDR
Midnight duration
Downing Survivors requirement (ultra rare removes it?)
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Anyways as for the Killer. His base stats are missing.
Also please try and use flat values instead of percentages. I know it's easier to use percentages but given how the game tracks them it can be inconsistent sometimes given how we talk about speeds in terms of the Survivors base MS. (If a Killer is 115% MS then is 5% more 120% or 120.75%?)
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@Riku_Odayaka said:
Seems like an interesting idea! I've got a couple suggestions though.
- Oh Come On!: The killer getting 3 hooks is usually a thing that's earned by them with difficulty if the killer evenly distributed hooks instead of tunneling. I'd say this perk would be better of slowing down the second stage instead of giving them a third struggle stage.
- Aftermath: Showing the auras is a bit overkill. If the killer is nearby to the generator, that can cause a pretty rapid down. Just the Exposed status effect is a good balance for that.
- Sacrificial Calling: While this is a good perk for slower killers, all perks are teachables. At the maximum speed boost, it's possible to make the killer 13% faster. If that was used on a Hillbilly, Trapper, or other fast killers, that could become problematic.
Aftermath doesn't show auras. It shows locations. Big difference.
As for Sacraficial Calling, having it be in flat numbers helps and making the temporary speedboost override rather than stacking with the permanent one would help.
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Removing bloodlust AND making pallets respawn would be completely gamebreaking. let alone making lunges even more punishing thus buffing Dead hard, which beyond bugfixes does not need a buff in the slightest.
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174090#Comment_1174090
Fair enough, bad choice of words on my part, I would say Wraith can be more active in direct generator regression than other killers.
In that case yes. Wraith, Billy, Legion, Freddy, Demogorgon, Nurse and Spirit all can get around the map faster and thus can regress generators significantly more often.
Oni's power is such that the extra mobility would only be used for pressure and chases rather than general mobility.
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174053#Comment_1174053
Yeah I was just categorizing them mostly arbitrarily, but I agree with you that down and hook pressure is more effective than just straight gen pressure as it occupies 50% of the team at once, one guy hooked, one guy who has to go and get them.
And yes you echoed my thoughts on clown, his entire game is downing survivors and ending chases quickly to force survivors to abandon generators and pick up their people, if you play him trying to directly combat generator progress you're probably going to lose.
I could make the argument that wraith has more generator pressure than you give him credit for because of his mobility, since he's so fast he can often get to the prioritized generator and kick it with pop easier than other killers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174059#Comment_1174059
Oh absolutely, in fact that scariest thing I see when I play legion (he's my guilty pleasure) is when I see survivors refusing to heal, because that's them basically saying "we know how you work and we're not playing into your game, come get us if you can" which usually makes things a lot tougher. This is one reason I think you see a lot of Legions run Thanatophobia, as he's one of the few killers who can actually get something from it, along with Plague, and it kind of forces survivors to either just accept 16% reduced repair speeds or start healing. Sadly I think it still loses to perks like pop but it is what it is.
But yes, kill pressure is king above all else as it forces 50% of the team to engage in something other than generator progress.
I wouldn't count going around the map to kick gens as gen pressure (and I say so in the link I sent you). Because while it does stall gen progress, it doesn't pressure anything.
A Survivor isn't going to not do a gen because it's regressing, so using PGTW doesn't pressure anything, they will just do gens anyways.
The only perks that can grant gen pressure are:
- Devour hope (by being too big a threat to ignore)
- Thanatiphobia (enhances injury based pressure)
- Dead Mans Switch (Effectively locks in whatever gen pressure you GAIN in the next 45 seconds)
- Thrilling Tremors (Effectively locks in whatever gen pressure you currently have for the next 16 seconds
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1173859#Comment_1173859
Why do you even read these threads if all you do is get offended and clutch your pearls? Genuinely asking, it would seem a person with delicate sensibilities like yourself would be better served just not being on these forums if they bother you so much.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/139246/you-cant-apply-pressure-as-a-killer
So I think one of the failings on the devs and really the entire DBD community is they've thrown out this phrase of "applying pressure" without really saying how to do it, or even defining it.
Pressure can be exerted on survivors in multiple different ways depending on what the killer is best at. It doesn't have to be strictly generator or map pressure, pressuring survivors to get off generators and rescue their fellow teammates can be just as compelling.
There are generally speaking three different types of pressure.
- Generator (or map) pressure.
- Kill and Hook Pressure.
- Injury Pressure.
A killer like Billy and Freddy as you've said gets pressure through high map mobility, however they do it in different ways. Freddy's teleportation makes it very easy for him to counter generator rushes directly, especially if he's just going from hook to gen to instantly hit it with pop goes the weasel. Billy has more of a combination of pressures 1 and 2 as his high mobility and one-shot ability allow him to both get to generators and kick with pop, while also forcing survivors to abandon gens often as he ends chases quickly.
Somebody like a Clown is pretty much reliant on pressure 2 as their main strength is the ability to end loops quickly. You need to always be hitting, always be hooking, in some ways even running generator perks may not be the best idea as you don't have to time or mobility to worry about stopping generators directly, you just need to kill, kill, kill.
Doctor has a similar ability to end loops quickly while also having good anti-stealth capabilities so he should always been in a chase.
A Legion or Plague exerts multiple pressure through getting everyone injured and in Plague's case broken, this means everyone is always one hit away from getting downed, and Plague even actively punishes for survivors healing and cleansing.
Now admittedly, some killers are more effective than others at Pressure, true enough, but one aspect of "forcing pressure" is recognizing the killers you are playing and what kind of pressure they excel at, will this win everytime? Probably not, but it can help if you are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole so to speak.
I find it more useful to refer to category 2 as gen pressure and category 1 as map pressure, since map pressure doesn't actually stop you from doing gens while being occupied by being chased, being downed/hooked or helping someone off a hook obviously does.
Map pressure can be most usefully defined as how much of a threat you are to Survivors you are NOT chasing. This definition applies to things most people associate with as map pressure and exclude things generally not thought of as map pressure.
For gen pressure I have this guide
@NuclearBurrito said:
Don't like being gen rushed? Want to get survivors off those pesky generators? Win chases quickly but still get bronze or lower gate keeper? Here is how you maximize pressure on gens!
First off a definition. There are many ways we could define Gen pressure but this is the definition I am going with:
- Gen Pressure = The factors that force Survivors to not repair Generators.
An important thing to note here is that:
A - Survivors can be off generators for reasons besides gen pressure. For example disarming Trapper traps is usually not an example of gen pressure (although sometimes it can be), same goes for other optional tasks like Sabotaging hooks and opening chests. For our purposes we will assume Survivors are reasonably altruistic however and will stop doing gens if there is a big enough threat they need to deal with.
B - You can stall the game with means besides gen pressure. For example Dying Light doesn't increase your gen pressure but stalls the game, same deal with regression and perks related to it.
Gen pressure is a subcategory of stall and is by far the most effective method of stalling the game.
Gen pressure can be quantified in terms of the number of Survivors not doing gens on average as a result of the preformed action. This will be referred to as GPR short for Gen Pressure Rating for the rest of this thread. At the start of the game your GPR is always 0.
Basics:
The easiest way to get gen pressure is to chase a survivor. While you are chasing a survivor that survivor cannot do objectives meaning it has a GPR of 1.
Sometimes you can get lucky and find multiple survivors at once. Until they split up none of them can do gens giving you an even higher GPR, however they usually split up quickly. The idea behind juggling is that you can repeatedly switch between chasing multiple survivors in order to pressure all of them, however unless they group up this is impractical without additional factors and thus shouldn't be done at the start of the game unless your Power/Build has some synergy with the strategy.
The absolute best form of Gen Pressure however is a downed/hooked survivor. For the purposes of GPR a downed and a Hooked survivor are each identical to each other. Having a hooked survivor means
A: That survivor cannot do generators
and
B: Another survivor has to leave gens in order to save them
This means it has a GPR of 2 AND it doesn't require you to actively do anything once they are Hooked/Slugged, meaning you can chase a survivor while this is happening for a total GPR of 3! This is why snowballing is so important. If you can keep this amount of pressure going throughout the game then you should have plenty of time to get enough downs in order to win.
Note: If you camp then the survivors likely won't go for the save, thus leaving you with a GPR of 1 instead of 2 or 3.
This is also why the early game is so important. Once you get a hook Survivors are working on gens at 1/4th their normal speed. Meaning up until that point the Generators go incredibly quick unless you have Ruin.
The 3rd basic way to gen gen pressure is Killing a survivor. This gives a permanent GPR +1 for the rest of the game. If you Kill a survivor and Hook another then you can easily get the max GPR of 4 thus stalling the game indefinitely so long as you can keep someone on the Hook.
This also shows the ups and downs of tunneling. In the long run a dead survivor is the best form of pressure you can have. However in the short term a Hooked survivor is worth twice as much pressure as a dead one since another survivor needs to go for the save. Generally the long term pressure is better but it's still worth keeping in mind when prioritizing your targets.
Situational Pressure effects:
Injuring a Survivor does not necessarily force them off of gens per say. However as more and more survivors are injured things become more and more risky thus making survivors want to heal anyways. The existence of the no heal meta means a few people being injured isn't a big deal. But if everyone is injured you risk everyone being slugged.
Thus injuring survivors has an estimated GPR of 0.25 per injured survivor unless you are the Plague.
Also some Killers can get pressure from their power. For example:
Legion's DW effect
Pig's RBT
and
Doctors Madness tier 3
All of these have a GPR of 1 per survivor effected and of these Legion has the most reliable form of it but also the fastest to remove.
Something harder to quantify is where you block off specific Generators rather than stopping a survivor from doing ANY generator. For example Corrupt intervention blocks 3 gens for 120 seconds. And both Trapper and Freddy can block off a Generator with a few traps.
In the event that the survivor needs to do the blocked generator that survivor is pressured for the time it takes to disarm the trap in one way or another. Until they do gen progress can be completely blocked by trapping multiple generators this way and guarding the rest yourself. This is the basis behind the 3 gen strategy.
Be careful when doing this. It won't last forever and should only be used to recover and relying on it is doomed to fail if you aren't also getting Hooks at the same time.
The final way to get GPR is totems. Ruin is annoying but good survivors will work through it until they happen to run into it. NOED is unknown until it's too late and thus wouldn't qualify for gen pressure either. Most other totems are too weak to force them off gens as well. However, Devour Hope once stacked will force survivors to cleanse it or else they will die to Mori's as well as your increased speed after hooks (I know people like to ignore the speed but even just 10 seconds of haste is very good for snowballing). Thus Devour Hope with 3 tokens is worth a GPR of 4.
In general, your goal as a Killer should be to reach a GPR of 4. Either by getting a Kill + a hook or though a combination of a lot of injured survivors, your power and a slug or 2. Once you get that you need to maintain it as long as possible.
This all may sound very obvious, but the shift in mindset from thinking in terms of #ofhooks to win to #ofsurvivors off gens is a big one. You can't brute force Gen Rush. You have to stop them from doing it in the first place. Low tier Killers are low tier because by the time they get those first 1 or 2 hooks there are already gens popping. It's all about getting that first hook and then keeping something going.
Probably won't have very much new information for you in particular (it is more intended for people who hear "gen pressure" and don't even know what exactly that means anyway.) But does include a working definition.
But basically, Clown has gen pressure because he can end chases with his power quickly and thus force Survivors to get off gens to make saves often.
Wraith has plenty of map pressure due to his ability to travel across the map quickly and silently.
Clown does not have any map pressure what so ever. He is a complete non-threat if he isn't actively chasing you.
Wraith does not have any gen pressure beyond what a base M1 Killer has. His power doesn't significantly help with hitting Survivors which outside of some Killer specific mechanics is the ultimate method of pressuring gens.
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@Milo said:
Then people wouldn't cleanse EVEN MORE!
No longer an issue due to the recent plague buff.
Though I'd still hesitate to say this is a good idea in spite of that.
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First of all I'm fine with this as a mechanic for a specific Killer or 2. (like have a Killer power directly effect base gen repair speed). However in general this would case more problems than it solved.
Among other things it gives away which Killer it is at the very start of the match. It makes it harder to balance things like toolboxes and gen slowdown perks.
It also is extremely easy to get wrong, as the devs impression on how strong a Killer is might not be the same as it's actual strength. So a more general approach along the lines of a rubber band mechanic would be more effective and less bandaidy.
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I haven't played against very many Freddies so I can't say about against (though the few games I have played against him were very enjoyable). But playing AS freddie has been a blast.
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Me because I prefer not to be genrushed. Unless you hook swarm in which case my pray is already here so why leave?
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the lack of sound in general (aka: being healthy) is less useful than the lack of sound when the Killer is expecting sound
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Well that makes sense. You don't lose bloodlust for missed basic attacks either. And the hook itself is more comparable to the Plagues vomit than something like a chainsaw or a hatchet for the purposes of stuff like this.
It's the basic attack afterwards that actually downs you remember?
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@Peanits said:
That's just a bug fix, not a nerf. You're locked into the animation at that point, you can't cancel the hook and go for that other guy.
Clasifying something as a bug fix doesn't make it not a nerf. The terms measure separate things.
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Ok so, if 16 meters is too much, while 6 meters is too little, there are numbers between 16 and 6.
Like how is 12 meters? Or 10?
Or what if we make it only reveal Survivors within 16 meters of hooks in the Killers Terror Radius.
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Ok but tier 2 myers getting a 8 meter TR AND still having 115% MS is completely fine.
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@Peanits said:
If they're camping and it's backfiring, that sounds more like they're shooting themselves in the foot more than anything. Gun puns absolutely intended.
I prefer shooting OTHER people in the foot.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1156541#Comment_1156541
I wouldnt.. If survivors were smart, they'd make you waste your 1 pool and continue not to cleanse.
I only need 1 pool if no one cleanses.
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@PigNRun said:
The Legion rework was handled very poorly. Too many nerfs in different directions for no reason. Its interesting how almost half of those awful "ideas" were reverted after a while (such as decreased Frenzy movement and vaulting speed), almost like they shouldnt have happened in the first place.
Back to the main topic, the M1 penalty is actually a remnant of old Legion. You would lose part of Frenzy charge so that you couldnt Frenzy instantly afrerward, cancel and down them. Why is it still here? Refer to the first paragraph. IE: The rework was poorly designed.
Actually it still makes no sense there either. You can just activate frenzy before the first hit and do the exact same thing.
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@fcc2014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1156447#Comment_1156447
Just curious any different with the extra pool to start?
Big difference. People actually cleanse now. It's great
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Just take a break for a week. It'll die down.
If it makes you feel any better I've been playing Plague. So if you happen to run into me then you'll get your wish.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155830#Comment_1155830
Uhhh. What if I want to use the tracking from Frenzy to switch targets and waste their time more by giving them a deep wound so they have to mend?
Or if you downed them and want to go after a 2nd not injured Survivor while slugging the first.
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@Mo4ntus said:
How does not a single pig get a 4k
oink oink motherf**ker
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@C3Tooth said:
I made a Survivors' idea perk discussion long time ago, here I put all the idea that people gave in the discussion. Re-read these I noticed there are real perks now.
. I refuse: extend the struggle time on 2nd stage hook for 5/10/15% (by @Wolf_of_the_Rift) - now its Steve Camaraderie
. Loot luster: can carry 2 items in trials, but you can not bring in 2 items into the trials. When you pick up an item when you're already have one, the item icon will replace the Loot luster perk icon. When you drop on-hand-item, the item on Loot luster will automatically being on your hand (how to change the item by your-self). Loot luster can carry a common/uncommon/rare item (by @C3Tooth)
. Enthusiasm: haste 5/6/7% for 2min when the trial starts (by @C3Tooth)
. Leave it to me: foot stomp on the ground, make notification noise, leave big scratch mark of 16m diameter. Great use to erase your injured friend's scratch mark and help them escape, or catch Killer's attention. Cause exhaustion for 60/50/40sec (by @C3Tooth)
. Dispel the darkness: clean Totems 20/25/30% faster. (by @C3Tooth)
. Signal behind the fog: survivor whistle, makes other survivors see his aura for 3/4/5sec. Cooldown time 2min. (by @C3Tooth)
. Share your pain to me: If you never get hooked in a trial, you able to do "healing" action to a Healthy survivor that hooked twice. They gain their 3rd hook but isnt a dead hook, in exchange you go to 2nd stage hook when you get your 1st hook. This "healing action" is performed in 20/15/10sec (by someone I dont remember, please claim this idea)
. Beginner Luck: if there is no generator done while you get hook, you have a 100 % chance to unhook yourself during the escape attempt and receive mangled status effect. You see the aura of nearest generator for 3 seconds. (by @Neot)
. Repay a favor: If you get saved on the hook, have the safe unhook the perk will become active for 40/50/60 seconds. When this perk activates you can give 1 health state of your own to give to another survivor. So example would be if you have 2 health states and a teammate is in 1 health state or dying. You can give them 1 and now you have 1 health and the have two or in the case of the dying state you both have 1 health. Or in a case of you have 1 health, you can use your health on a dying survivor and technically switch places. (by @elk) - now its Zarina's For the people
. On the watch: You are affected by the Expose Status Effect for the duration of the Trial. You perform altruistic actions 50% faster, you gain a small speed burst after unhooking someone, if you are the obsession, you can Instantly and completely heal others on secondary action once per trial and your aura will be revealed to the killer for 6 seconds after the next generator is repaired. (by @Theluckyboi)
. Blood, sweat & tear: You have been in worse situations, you teach your buddies how to remain calm and work more efficiently, the less the better. When there are only 3 survivors left everyone recovers from exhaustion 10%/15%/20% faster and repair generators 10% faster. When there are only 2 survivors left everyone gets a 5% bonus to movement speed and the stun from pallets is 1/2/3 seconds longer. When you are the only survivor left on the trial you will get 10% bonus to movement speed and the hatch will be highlighted to you and the killer. The effects of this perk WONT STACK and will remain as long as you are alive. (by @Theluckyboi)
. Stubborn: Your experience fighting against superior enemies allows you to fight them back. Press the Active Ability button while running to charge towards the killer and stun them, causing you to get injured. You cannot use Stubborn while you are injured. You can use stubborn to stun the killer while he is carrying a survivor, but this will injure you to dying state. Causes exhaustion for 120/90/60 seconds. (by @Theluckyboi)
. Hard work yields success: You are stressed when you are alone, but also to keep up and be useful to others. Whenever you are working on a generator with at least one other survivor, press the ACTIVE key when not within the killer's terror radius to begin a rapid skillcheck wave for the next 30 seconds, but with good skillchecks being 5/10/15% larger (or smaller?) and great skillchecks 10/15/25% larger. If the killer's terror radius begins to play during this sequence, the skillcheck wave will immediate stop. (This perk is weak and strong against Hex Ruin and very weak to Hex Lullaby). Has a limit of five usages (by @Ember_Hunter)
. True altruism: You truly wish to save your fellow survivors, but the Entity's hate for you is much stronger. After being unhooked one time, your will becomes strengthened. Whenever you rescue hooked survivors on the 2nd phase, and they are healed in any way (mending, selfheal, etc) and you gain the safe unhook notification, the next time the survivor is hooked, they will instead be in the beginning phase of the second phase instead of instant death. However, when you are hooked, your sacrificial progress is 20/15/10% faster. Has a limit of effecting one survivor, if another survivor has the same perk, the perk will work for whoever activates it first. The other survivors with this perk will gain a 5% altruistic action speed benefit, and all survivors gains a 50% bloodpoint bonus in that category. (by @Ember_Hunter)
. Intervening soul: Your close observance of Killers and the Entity allows you to interfere with the trials. As long as you are injured, you can: See killer scratch marks; Interact with the entity whenever it is present in physical form (excluding hook sacrifice) by succeeding three difficult Skillchecks to disable all Entity related perks for 2/3/4 minutes. However, failing any Skillcheck will result in a 10% action speed penalty until you have succeeded 5 skillchecks in any way, also reveals your aura, gain a bonus bloopoint amount to boldness. If the end game collapse timer is finished, you will be immune to the Entity for 10/20/30 more seconds. (by @Ember_Hunter)
. Geographist: Your screen play has a compass showing the direction (N/E/S/W) that your camera is facing. You can do 0/1/2 Marker ability (like map add on Glass Bead) at anytime, other survivors can see only your previous Marker (example for 2 Marker: you Mark A, every survivors see the Mark A. Then you Mark B, you can see Mark A & B, but everyone can only see Mark A. Then you Mark C, Mark A is removed, you can see Mark B & C, but everyone can only see Mark B). This is a great combination with Plunderer & small game. (by @C3Tooth)
. Tough guy: You feel the need of helping your mates, You earn 1 token when unhook a survivor to a maximum of 3. When you got the 3 tokens you earn the ability to perform a dash when being healthy, press the action button to perform the dash, doing this will give you a little burst for a split of a second, avoid any hit from the killer, cause you the exhaustion status effect for 90/75/60 seconds. In case you perform the dash towards the killer, this one will get stunned, and it will give you the fractured status effect for 120/110/100 seconds (by @Gato_Loco )
. It didnt hurt me: if you get hit when injured, you're down. Except if you're running, you will dragging forward 2/2.5/3 meters. And the time you paused on the ground before you can crawl is decreased by 100%, which mean you're able to crawl as soon as you're hit the ground.(by @C3Tooth )
. Veteran: Everytime you heal a Survivor gain a token up to 7. Your scratch marks last 1 second less per token. If you are ever put into the dying state lose 3/2/1 token(s). (by @NuclearBurrito)
. Watch your step: The sounds caused by walk/running reduced by 60/80/100% (by @C3Tooth)
. Sniff the dirt: When you start running, you make a smoke behind you about 6/8/10m in length, 4m in width, smoke starts to fade away after 2sec. 60sec cool down. (by @C3Tooth)
. Sorry for that: You have a single trap in your hand, it take 10sec to lay trap on the ground, you can pick up after setup. Other survivors can see trap aura when in 20m radius, if they hit, they get trapped, but can escape in the 1st try but leave injured (or down if already injured). If Killer get hit, they get stopped like Trapper hit his trap. This trap is destroyed after hit a survivor or Killer. (by @C3Tooth)
. Sneak Around The Hook: You leave no scratch marks when the hooked survivors are within 20/24/28 meters from you. (by @Pennosuke )
. Determination: When hit by the killer during the endgame collapse, your sprint is extended by 3/4/5 seconds. As the last survivor, hit an impossibly difficult skillcheck to immediately pick yourself up, avoiding damage for 2/2.5/3 seconds and gain a 10% speed bonus for that time. You will slowly bleed out as if in the dying state until healed to healthy. Note: By impossibly difficult I’m talking maybe 2/3’s worth of a great skillcheck size, which is affected by distressing. Failing the skillcheck deactivates the perk permanently. (by @AetherBytes)
. Martyr: Your sacrifice increases the resolve of others. When you are sacrificed or killed, the other survivors get a 15/20/25% bonus to altruistic actions, and a 3/5/5% increase to generator repairing and opening the exit gates. (T3: They are also able to pick themselves up from the dying state once.) (by @AetherBytes)
. Anywhere but here: Your absolute panic distorts the killer’s aura reading abilities. After being unhooked, when the killer attempts to read your aura, it will be shifted 16/24/32m in a random direction for 20/25/30 seconds. Skill check chances are tremendously higher while active. (by @AetherBytes)
. Denial: You refuse to let the killer win. When on the killer’s shoulder, your wriggle speed is increased by 3/4/5%. If you wriggle out of the grasp of the killer, start sprinting at 150% of your normal running speed for a maximum of 3 seconds if not exhausted. Causes the Exhausted status effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
. Paranoia: When on the edge of danger, you become paranoid, heightening your senses. When suffering from the exposed or mangled status effect, see the killers aura in an 8/12/16 meter radius. You cannot see survivor auras except if they are in the dying state or hooked. (by @AetherBytes)
. Final wishes: Your friends deserve all the protection you can give, even if it means risking your own life. When you take a hit for a survivor while exposed, Earn 1 token. When you have 3/2/1 tokens, the next time you are hit while exposed, instead of going to the dying state, go to the injured state, unless already injured, and gain the Deep Wound status effect. The perk deactivates after being used. (by @AetherBytes)
How exactly are these perks real?
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Spirit - Love the mindgame style of play rather than just running in circles
Oni - Matches are always super tense once he gets his power. Love the atmosphere he creates.
Ghostface - Having to worry about being jumped at any moment keeps me engaged while M1ing on gens.
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I wonder what perk will become 100% if Noed is reworked?
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This isn't Poe's law right?
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Current DS and old MoM reward failure.
BT and NOED mitigate failure.
The difference is that with DS, I would rather be downed and DS the Killer than not be downed. And MoM gives you a health state for being hit, again making you better off than not being hit.
However while BT and NOED give you a power boost relative to not having the perk, you are still worse off compared to if you had just succeeded to begin with.
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Reward for failure != mitigation of failure.
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When your standards for one group or individual are different than for another.
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Because that method of balancing SWF is futile. Someone who is determined to use the benefits of SWF can establish communication in a solo que lobby by sending everyone a discord link and dodging lobbies until it works.
So it would only effect people that are NOT specifically using SWF for a power boost.
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@Boludosattendant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136185#Comment_1136185
ok, if i wouldnt be ban for that so, i can freely enter in "AppData\Local\DeadByDaylight\Saved\Config\WindowsNoEditor\GameUserSettings.ini" modify the "Gameusersettings.ini" and "Engine.ini" with a notepad and make the killer red light more bright,remove grass and fog etc?
@Peanits can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure perk/addon/whatever icon modifications were specifically a whitelisted modification, where other modifications are not whitelisted.
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perk system. The specific perks may not be the best, but the fundamental types of perks that exist are really cool
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Lore - A loyal worshiper of the Entity even before being pulled into the fog the Acolyte is very used to making sacrifices.
Weapon - Ornamental Dagger + Blood vial (when hitting a survivor he has an animation of the blood dripping into a vial
Movement Speed - 115%
Terror Radius - 32 meters
Height - ShortPower: Blood Ritual - Every time the Acolyte hits a survivor he gains a blood token. He can channel M2 (2 seconds) to expend 2 tokens in order to call upon the entity's favor giving him a choice of 3 essence orbs: Green, Red and Blue which can be selected from simply by looking at the appropriate orb and pressing M1.
Once an Orb is obtained pressing M2 again will consume the currently held orb which will grant you a temporary Absorption buff depending on the color of the Orb used for 20 seconds and then a permanent Essence buff also dependent on the color when the duration runs out. Each Essence buff may be collected multiple times and stacks with itself indefinitely.
The effects are:
- Green - Increase your movement speed by 0.2 M/S and your vault speed by 20%. Essence effect - Increase your movement speed by 0.04 M/S
- Red - Increases your pallet and generator breaking speed by 25% and decreases your Successful Attack recovery by 50%. Essence effect - Increase your pallet and generator breaking speed by 5%
- Blue - Decreases your terror radius by 10 meters and increases your Lunge duration by 0.2 seconds. Essence effect - Decreases your terror radius by 2 meters.
Add ons from most common to least common
COMMON ADDONS
- Cursed branch: Start with 1 Green essence
- Blood stained cloth: Start with 1 Red essence
- Unopened letter: Start with 1 Blue essence
- Talisman: Slightly increases summoning speed (-0.25 seconds)
UNCOMMON ADDONS
- Alm of Haste: Moderately increases the absorption vault speed increase of green orbs. (+5% vault speed )
- Alm of Bloodlust: Moderately increases the absorption attack cooldown reduction of red orbs. (+12.5% attack cooldown decrease)
- Alm of Secrecy: Moderately increases the absorption lunge range increase of blue orbs. (+0.05 seconds lunge)
- Canvas Talisman: Moderately increases summoning speed. (-0.5 seconds)
- Decorated vial: Increase absorption duration by 10 seconds
RARE ADDONS
- Aged Alm of Haste: Increases the effect of green essence moderately. (+0.02 M/S haste)
- Aged Alm of Bloodlust: Increases the effect of red essence moderately. (+2.5% pallet breaking)
- Aged Alm of Secrecy: Increases the effect of blue essence moderately. (-1 meter TR)
- Rotten Talisman: Considerably increases summoning speed. (-0.75 seconds)
- Crystal necklace: Moderately increases all Absorption vault speed, attack cooldown and lunge duration effects.
VERY RARE ADDONS
- Rotted Alm: Moderately increases all essence effects.
- Cultist Robes: Orbs cost 1 less blood
- False Idol: start with 1 of each essence
- Sentimental Relic: The first time you absorb each color Orb all Survivors will receive the exposed status effect equal to it's duration and you will not receive it's essence afterwards.
ULTRA RARE ADDONS
- Iridescent Alm: Each orb grants an additional essence. Reduces the Absorption duration by 15 seconds.
- Bloody Offering: Your first 3 orbs are free, tremendously increases summoning speed. (-1 second). Additional orbs will cost 1 more blood than normal.
Perks:
- Ritual of sacrifice - You may kill 1/2/4 survivors who have been rescued from the hook after the summoning phase (Note: This only saves the time between picking them up and hooking them since they are dead on hook at this point)
- Hex: Devotion - Each hooked survivor increases your movement speed by 5%. This effect is persists for 5/10/15 seconds after the survivor is unhooked. These effects are disabled if the hex totem is broken
- Curse of solitude - A random survivor is the obsession. Anyone who does a cooperative or altruistic action with or on the obsession or has a cooperative or altruistic action done to them by the obsession gets exposed for 20 seconds. The obsession gets a 15/10/5% action speed bonus to non-altruistic non-repair actions preformed alone and an additional 5% bonus for each other dead survivor
SURVIVOR PERKS:
- Hyper Sensitive - Pain fuels you. You gain an additional 50% speed when getting hit by the killer for the (first 1 second)/(1.5 seconds)/(entirety) of the speed boost.
- Without a trace - You escape with nothing left from you. When the exit gates are powered you leave no scratch marks for 40/50/60 seconds.
- Fleet feet - You make your way around easily. While healthy and not in the killer's terror radius or in a chase you run 4%/5%/6% faster
Credit to @L3gi0nMa1n for most of the addons and @8obot1c for the Survivor perks
@NuclearBurrito said:
The Reaper
Movement Speed: 4.4 M/S (110%)
Terror Radius: 32 Meters
Height: Tall (floating like the Nurse)
Weapons: Scythe
Power: Soul Thief - You may charge your Scythe for 2 seconds to ready your power, gradually slowing down to 3.6 M/S (90%) during the charge (average of 100% M/S if released immediately).
Releasing the charge will Reap all Survivors within an 8 meter radius regardless of obstacles, causing them to scream and granting you their soul. Your terror radius is reduced by 8 meters per soul in your possession.
To regain their soul Survivors must head to one of 3 Alters and preform a 4 second channel. While preforming the channel the Alter becomes active showing it's aura to the Reaper and will remain active for 5 seconds after the channel ends.
While Soul Thief is charged and you have at least 1 soul you may press M1 to preform Void Strike and instantly teleport 4 meters forwards and attack the first Survivors in the path. This may be recast by pressing M1 again for each additional soul you have so long as the attack hits a Survivor. You may Void Strike in the direction of an active Alter to teleport directly to it.
Soulless Survivors preform ALL actions 10% slower including movement and vaulting and will appear monochrome and their character portrait will no longer be filled in.
Addons
BROWN
- Increases Reap range by 1 meter
- Removes 1 Alter
- Hitting a Survivor with Void Strike inflicts Mangled on the Survivor until they are healed
- Increases Void Strike range by 1 meter
YELLOW
- Increases Reap range by 2 meters
- Alters take 1 extra second to use
- Increases Void Strike range by 2 meters
- Soulless Survivors are inflicted with Blindness
- Hitting a Survivor with Void Strike inflicts Broken on the Survivor for 45 seconds
GREEN
- Increases Reap range by 3 meters
- Decreases Soul Thief charge time by 0.5 seconds
- Aalters take 2 extra seconds to use
- Increases the Slowdown on Soulless Survivors by 2%
- Void Strike will steal Souls from Survivors if you don't already have them
PURPLE
- Increases the Slowdown on Soulless Survivors by 3%
- Each Soul stolen decreases your terror radius by 4 more than normal
- Reaping a Survivor inflicts Exhaustion on them for 30 seconds
- You are undetectable while charging Soul Thief
RED
- Soulless Survivors no longer have their movement speed reduced. You move 5% faster per soul in your possession
- All Survivors start the trial Soulless. Survivors are Oblivious while using an Alter
Perks
- Hex: Despair - Every time a Survivor heals gain a token. Hooking a Survivor will consume a token, inflicting the broken status effect for 30/60/90 seconds once they are unhooked. When the hex is cleansed you can no longer gain tokens but you will keep your existing tokens and can still utilize them.
- Isolation - For every Survivor not within 32 meters of another Survivor gain 1 charge per second. At 80 charges gain 3/4/5% increased movement speed. Downing a Survivor will reset your charges.
- Unpaid Dues - You are obsessed with one Survivor. Whenever a Survivor is unhooked that Survivor will gain a permanent 10% action speed penalty to repairing generators, healing and sabotaging hooks. The Obsession will gain a 10/15/20% action speed penalty instead. This debuff stacks up to twice per Survivor.
@NuclearBurrito said:
The shinigami
Movement Speed: 4.2 M/S (105%)
TR: 20 meters
Height: Small
Power: Mark of Death - Preform a 2 second channel while looking at a Survivor within 12 meters to apply an Omen on the target. You and the Survivor are both rooted for the duration of the channel and cannot move.
While effected by an Omen the Survivor is oblivious and their aura is revealed to all players. In order to remove an Omen a Survivor must find another Survivor and have them preform an 8 second channel. Additional Survivors can speed up this channel (8 seconds for 1 Survivor, 4 seconds for 2 Survivors and 2 seconds for 3 Survivors). The channel does not need to be preformed all at once.
Every second your movement speed increases by 0.04 M/S up to a maximum of 0.6 per Survivor with an Omen. This movement speed is temporarily disabled while a Survivor is inside your terror radius. (Note that Survivors with Omen's are Oblivious and thus are never considered within your TR)
Striking a healthy Survivor inflicted by an Omen removes the Omen and makes the Survivor marked for death. A Survivor that is Marked for death does not leave scratch marks or blood marks, their aura will still be revealed to other Survivors but will turn white to signal that they are marked and they recieve a 50% movement speed increase that decays over 10 seconds. At the end of the 10 seconds the Survivor is downed. (Note: the Killer isn't given a notification of where they fall)
For 30 seconds after inflicting a Mark of Death you will be given the blindness effect. This will only prevent you from seeing Survivor aura's.
There is no escaping the Mark of Death. Those marked WILL go down.
Perks
- Show of Futility - For the first 10/20/30 seconds after a Generators starts to regress it will regress 300% faster (1 charge per second up from 0.25). Afterwards it will stop regressing.
- The Lonely path - The Obsession receives the hindered status effect when within 8 meters of another Survivor slowing their movement speed by 5%. This effect lingers for 15/20/25 seconds after leaving the Survivor
- Trail of Body's - Whenever you hook a Survivor gain a token up to a maximum of 4/5/6. Whenever you down a Survivor gain the undetectable status effect for 5 seconds per token up to a maximum of 20/25/30 seconds.
Addons
Names pending. Please give suggestions
Brown
- Decrease omen application time by 1 second
- Increase omen application range by 2 meters
- Increase time to remove an omen by 1 second
- Survivors with an omen are inflicted with blindness
Yellow
- Increase time to remove an omen by 2 seconds
- Marked Survivors gain a 10% smaller speed boost (down to 40%)
- Marked Survivors are downed 2 seconds sooner
- Increases the rate at which you accumulate movement speed by 50% (0.02 M/S/S)
- Decreases post mark blinded duration by 5 seconds
Green
- Marked Survivors gain a 15% smaller speed boost (down to 35%)
- Marked Survivors are downed 3 seconds sooner
- Increases the rate at which you accumulate movement speed by 100% (0.04 M/S/S)
- Decreases post mark blinded duration by 10 seconds
- Each Omen increases your maximum movement speed bonus by an additional 0.2 M/S (5%)
Purple
- Each Omen also decreases your Terror radius by 4 meters
- When a Marked Survivor is downed all Survivors with Omens scream
- Survivors in your terror radius no longer disable your movement speed. Each Omen increases your maximum movement speed by 0.4 M/S less (10%)
- Survivors outside of your terror radius have their action speeds reduced by 5% for each Omen
Red
- You may see blood and scratchmarks from marked Survivors. When a marked Survivor is downed the nearest Survivor screams.
- Increases your base movement speed by 5%. You no longer see the aura's of Survivors with Omens. Applying an Omen or a Mark reveals the aura of all Survivors outside of your terror radius for 10 seconds.
Here are what I think are my most fleshed out Killer ideas.
Please give feedback on them <3
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@Seanzu said:
The issue I have, and I play both sides is that killers want EVERYTHING and it's going to put the game out of whack.
They want gens increased, maps smaller, killers buffed & survivors meta perks nerfed.
I don't think you can change all these and still keep the game reasonably fun for survivors, they're clearly working on maps and bringing weaker killers up a level or two every couple of patches and that's what they're focusing on
You do realize the cause is that multiple people suggest different solutions to the same problem right?
So one person says they want to fix gen times by decreasing repair speed, while another wants smaller maps to accomplish the same function.
Taken together it can look like they want both, but that isn't quite the case.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126315#Comment_1126315
Can you tell me what happens to the one that is hooked at that moment? When you swing, you basically break the chain, the survivor would not even be injured when you swing too early or miss. I think you don't apply Deep Wounds to anyone in your scenario. So it should be the combination of M1 and gunshot. And your third paragraph explains exactly how Legion worked before the nerf. Frenzy "applies Deep Wounds to your basic attack", and Frenzy hits applied Mangled etc. through Sloppy Butcher. And then they changed it.
@ZoneDymo @TAG @NuclearBurrito As I said, we can keep discussing, but they will change whatever is needed, if intended or not, when they argue with "consistency". The current state is PTB and most likely not the final version, maybe even buggy. Let's just see what happens. Noone wanted the Legion changes to let Frenzy hits not be basic attacks anymore because it simply removed a bunch of perks being useful. I think they will change this for the Deathslinger as well.
Legion attacks do not have the basic attack cooldown, do not apply 1 health state of damage and does not interact with exposed, nor did they ever.
As for your question, the chain is indeed broken with no negative effects applied to the speared Survivor.
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Again?
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125976#Comment_1125976
Frenzy could also be regarded as a sprint mainly, that applied Deep Wounds to your basic attack.
If you chose to break the chain, nothing happens. They need to "wiggle" free. Still your "base attack" applies the Deep Wound when reeled in, same as Frenzy does. We can argue back and forth, it is up to them to decide if it is a basic attack or not. I just put my money on "they will change it"
The chain is what applies the deep wounds. Not the Basic attack. You can prove this by what happens if you break the chain with an M1 but hit someone other than the Speared Survivor. No deep wounds is applied, because the attack itself isn't the source.
Legion Frenzy M1 has several special properties, not just deep wounds. For example it has no attack cooldown, refills his power bar, doesn't down Survivors (it's a set to injure, not a 1 health state damage) and activates a Killer instinct effect.
In this case however, it's that hitting a Survivor with the gun applies the "speared" effect, and the effect has a property where if a speared survivor is hit with a basic attack they will receive the deep wounds status effect.
All properties of a basic attack are included in the attack itself. It deals 1 health state of damage, and thus downs injured Survivors, it interacts with status effects like exposed and it has the standard basic attack cooldown.
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it's when an images graphics has the dimensions 3840 x 2160.
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Alerting crows in a chase isn't useful. You aren't hiding in a chase.
It's only real benefit is the interaction with other perks.
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@Dreamnomad said:
They really should remove the cooldown. Even without a cooldown it wouldn't be a meta perk. But to answer your original question as to why it has a cooldown in the first place that is because BHVR plays it way too safe with new content. There are a lot of perks that could have been pretty neat but they just clog up the bloodweb and never get used because they are scared of making things too strong. And yes, you need to be concerned about "power-creep". But if you have a true understanding of this game then you should know where the line between overpowered and underpowered is.
Also power creep isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be sometimes.
The issue is when it's hard to modify old content, such as with physical card games. But here the end result of power creep is just that everything ends up stronger to maintain balance with the existing strong things.
And that's not bad or unbalanced. It just is. Balance is relative.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Surge is really weak right now. Here are a list of possible ways it could be fixed. These are all individual and only one of these should be implemented.
- Remove the cooldown and the basic attack requirement (range scales with tier)
- Remove the range. Now effects the ENTIRE MAP
- Make the perk 10% and remove the basic attack requirement
- 12% regression on the 2 gens with the most progress
Benefits of 1 - Plays on the perks current main strengths, specifically how fast it is to trigger. Throw on the perk and find a group of Survivors. Downing one of them doesn't do much but you can down both of them for a 16% regression on nearby gens. PGTW is still more total regression, but would require you to stop to hook the Survivor, find a gen and kick it. Currently PGTW is so much more effective that it's worth it, but with no cooldown and working with chainsaws ect it would be a different story
Benefits of 2 - Lets the perk give more information and consistency while playing up it's quantity over quality approach to regression. 8% and a cooldown makes sense when it's consistently on upwards of 3-5 gens instead of 1-3.
Benefits of 3 - Doesn't change the fundamental mechanics of the perk making it easier to implement compared to other possible changes and increases it's combo potential with working on non-basic attacks
Benefits of 4 - Much like 2, very consistent and gives info. However this one won't potentially give insanely large reductions when Survivors are all spread out and won't give very little regression when they are grouped.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1121181#Comment_1121181
I try to promote debate and discussion. It seems though that a lot of people simply don't want that.
That's also nothing against @TAG specifically, it's just that if you are going to criticise something that I've said, then it would just be better to actually give me a way to improve on my point if it's an idea to implement, or good counterpoints relevant to the discussion at hand. I admit that my idea is open to abuse, but so is the current system.
You could start by properly defining it. "Honor system" isn't meaningful by itself.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119822#Comment_1119822
3rd down maybe, I was talking about guaranteed 2k. You cant get an unhook against camper when you are all exposed.
And 2k for doing nothing is a big deal imo. Thats better than Nurse's killrate lmao. Not to mention that camper may black pip.
2k is if there are no factors working against the Killer.
Amazing chases, no kindred, no SWF, no patrol time.
It's not that he's guaranteed a 2k. But that he's guaranteed to not get MORE than a 2k if the Survivors play smartish.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118203#Comment_1118203
You forgot about totems. Just cleansing NOED is more than 80 seconds. Not to mention finding them. So in the end NOED camper will always have time to catch at least 1 more survivior, so its a guaranteed 2k.
I did more detailed math above
You do not need to cleanse totems here. Even if the Killer runs NOED he will need to leave the hook in order to get a 3rd down. At which point he isn't camping and you could get an unhook.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118122#Comment_1118122
This. The narrative that if a killer camps the first survivor to death it guarantees 3 escapes for the other survivors is definitely not the case the majority of the time. That only works if the first survivor leads them on a decent enough chase, does not struggle or suicide on the hook and nobody wastes any time trying to save the camped survivor (which is harder against stealth campers) and entirely focuses on gens.
Camping the first survivor to death and then using NOED is often a very effective strategy.
The time it takes to camp a Survivor to death is 120 seconds.
In that time Survivors can get over 4 gens done.
If Kindred and SWF is not in play then they must first take the time to check the hook. So lets just say they get 3 gens done, since the time that would be spent on the 4th gen is instead taken by the time it takes to gather information.
So once the first Survivor is dead there is now 2 gens left. If the Killer tries to camp an additional Survivor then the remaining Survivors have enough time to check the hook again, complete both gens and open both gates.
So that's enough time for the Survivors to force a 2k by just not being stupid. No long chases or expert hiding needed. Nor is SWF or Kindred required.
If the first Survivor found is in a SWF or has Kindred then a 30 second chase will guarantee the other 3 escape.
This is all before taking into account things like travel time and hiding. They play into both Survivors and the Killer, but moreso for the Killer due to the fact that he has to patrol while the Survivors don't need to spend much time not doing an objective of some kind.
So you would only expect a Killer that is camping to get more than a 2k if the Survivors screw up on their own. And if the Survivors DID screw up, then the Killer winning because of it is fine.
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Looks like I need to post this again:
@NuclearBurrito said:
The claim that the Devs are Survivor sided also includes the claim that the Devs will implement features such that the Survivors become more powerful given their implementation.
While it's easy to just point towards a list of Survivor buffs and declare that as the proof that this is the case, I don't necessarily think that's the case.
Specifically, instead of looking at things 1 patch at a time, rewind to a year ago.
Hatch couldn't be closed. EGC didn't exist.
DS worked on first down
More safe pallets
BL infinites and instant heals allowed for crazy long chases
probably a bunch of other things I'm forgetting about. But basically if you were suddenly thrust a full year into the past playing Killer would feel far worse than now.
If you go back even further the problem becomes even worse, trending all the way back to several infinite loops per map with no perks needed and no skill needed and also gens are even faster because ######### you.
The devs that brought us to this point are the same devs working on the game now. Yet there seems to be the idea that even though the game has been getting more and more balanced over time that the same devs that got us this far also are devs that want to make Killers suffer and hate progress and whatever other random idea people have.
I'm not trying to say that the problems people claim to exist don't exist. But rather, that over time the number of problems in the game has been going down and not up, and there is no reason why we should expect this trend to stop. Will all of our problems go away in one patch? No, but the trend has been positive, not negative. So try and consider the big picture before trying to call the devs biased and terrible or whatever.
Bloodlust, Entity blockers, the entire gen regression mechanic, Several killer animation speedups, the EGC and Hatch closing wouldn't have been added if the devs were truely as Survivor sided as people claim.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114627#Comment_1114627
I understand every killer has a limitation here and there but I feel Legion has too many in comparison to other powers. Its just every aspect of the power has more drawbacks then normal from basic function to add-ons and perks. Frenzy only boost you to 130% and has no add-ons to make it any faster. Spirit, since this is the example, moves at 176% at base (if sources are to be trusted) and has add-ons to go faster in addition to the post phase boost whereas Legion gets stunned instead. There's other factors of course, but no one in their right mind is going to say Legion is anywhere near spirit level of power. it seems like they took a ton of negatives and just threw it on legion because of the initial problems or something. Just a quick list of fundamental drawbacks
Legion:
1) Non-lethal
2) slow moving
3) long CD
4) getting stunned takes you out and drains the gauge
5) getting out otherwise stuns you anyway for longer
6) waste of time on injured survivors
7) not using the power and swinging normally drains the gauge, despite point #6
8) can't read auras
9) can't see blood
10) can't see scratch marks
11) can't use unless gauge is full
12) Getting blinded cancels the power
Spirit:
1) is 110% killer
2) can't see survivors
3) can't see auras
4)can't see blood
5) can't use unless gauge is full
Oni-chan:
1) is M1 killer until power is charged (gauge is full)
2) Global que on power use
3) can't turn well
4) Mini-stuns everywhere
This is off the top of my head so I probably missed a few here and there (not to mention I'm no Spirit or Oni expert), but there's just SO many drawbacks for such an underwhelming power and there's no real way to make it much better since no perk works with the power and half the add-ons are just a waste of BP I'd rather not even pick them up. I should be a least a little excited for a purple rarity add-on, instead its "Oh great, stab wounds study, oh and a mixtape. Greeeat. Oh look dirt! oh riiiight they nerfed it. Nevermind. Oh look a knife, oh, they nerfed that too." I get other killers have some high end add-ons that are kinda meh, but this seems like overkill.
Oh I didn't say that Legion wasn't weak, or even that this limitation is justified.
My claim is only that those Killers have a justification for NOT having that specific limitation that doesn't apply to the Legion.
Legion can see Survivors in his power, doesn't need it for general movement and has easy access to it.
So you can't use Nurse, Spirit and Oni not having the scratchmark limitation as a counterargument to Legion having it.
The limitation is designed to limit the Legion's power. Not the Oni's power. If you want to argue if it should, then you need to do so on it's own merits. Not exactly a high bar to clear.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114105#Comment_1114105
You're not wrong, but nothing stops most from just canceling their power if they aren't heading in that direction already (especially since they dont have a 4 second stun) and just activating it again. My understanding was "we'll you can be using it for travel so we don't want you accidentally finding survivors". Billy for example, has arguably one of, if not the best, travel powers in the game at a minimal cooldown while also being lethal. So it just seemed strange.
So just to clarify. Despite frenzy being a non-lethal, 10 second long, 20-second CD that gets partially consumed on a normal hit, and decently slower than other speed boost with a 4 second stun, its just the fact that they can turn if they want without cancelling that leads to this difference in the case of tracking survivors? This is also assuming in theory that they started frenzy to travel, found scratch marks along the way, and still had enough of their power left to find the survivor, chase them, and hit them before running out of time and getting stunned in addition to windows and pallets that could be around.
Just trying to understand and help others understand what is considered powerful enough to warrant these limitations. I understand there are other factors at play and I'm not saying turning is not a valid balancing point, but they already have so many other limits on their power while it seems like other killers barely have half while also still having a stronger power and add-ons that help much more, especially purple add-ons.
I don't speak for hillbilly. But Spirit has different limitations to the same effect due to making the Survivors themselves invisible, and Oni's power is harder to gain access to making the benefits earned.
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You can probably make anything sound OP if you list it's strengths in the right tone and leave.
For example:
OMG! This Killer can down you instantly just like, whenever he feels like it! I can't even use pallets cuz he will just instantly break it every time! At least make it so he has to aim.