NoShinyPony
NoShinyPony
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/879619#Comment_879619
Most of the time when I get a pallet stun on a killer that tries to mindgame me (walking backwards to hide stain, pig dash, Wraith windstorm, spirit phasing especially) I point and shake my head and say something like "No. You thought."
I don't see it as bm'ing and if anything it's a waste of my own time so I see no reason why it shouldn't be okay.
I wouldn't consider head shaking bm'ing either.
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1) The game is not dying atm. But it's worrying that the playerbase is not significantly growing despite all the great licenses that have been added and that the game is getting buggier with each update. We will see what the future holds.
2) That's a topic you could write a novel about. Part of it is that there are a lot of mechanics in the game that make toxic behaviour possible. There is a reason why some people call DbD a "bully simulator".
3) That's balancing. It's normal that this is a permanent process with a game like DbD.
4) Do they listen? Yes. Do they act? Sometimes, depends on the issue. Keep in mind that the community managers who read everything on the forums, twitter etc. are not the ones who program the game.
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It's not as if leaving through the exit gates after the hatch gets closed is the only way to escape in this game.
You can leave through the hatch before it gets closed. Keys exist as well. And of course, you can do 5 gens with your teammates and leave through the exit gates in a normal way.
If a survivor wasn't able to use several chances, I don't think they still need a 50/50 survival chance (or even higher).
However, I agree that luck plays often too big of a role in this game.
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It's sad to see how some people think bm'ing is something you do just in good fun.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875281#Comment_875281
I feel like challenges that wouldn't have any big chance to effect gameplay are possible.
Keep them simplistic and don't require any specifics like egc.
Do gens/drop pallets/heal/sacrifice/hit/use a specific perk etc are all good challenges.
Stuff you'd be doing normally anyway.
Unhooks are only a problem due to farming people hate getting farmed.
Challenges like get sacrifices during egc with noed could just be run noed and get sacrifices at any time.
Of course you can do challenges that don't hurt the game's health (significantly). Was there a massive outcry about the challenges of level 1 and level 2? No.
@Fibijean I get that you want to defend the devs but putting the blame on the players instead of the bad challenges is not the way go. Luckily the devs realized that these challenges aren't good for the game in their current state.
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It's a bug.
No idea whether the devs can fix this fast or whether it means enjoy your 15 matches for these sweet 30k bloodpoints.
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The upcoming rank reset change will make it so that half the community will be playing on purple & red ranks within few months. I don't see what's good about that.
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@luka2211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873872#Comment_873872
its 3 guys,they keep doing it over and over again,they find me down me after some time facecamp me and then mori me
They treat other guys in the lobby normally
If you want to report these guys for griefing, then you need to record all your matches as proof. The community managers can then decide whether your case is "bad enough" to count as griefing and be punishable.
Tunneling, camping & mori'ing itself is not a bannable offense. You have to get targeted over a significant amount of matches and be treated different from your teammates.
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Is it the same person doing it over and over again, let's say over the course of 10-20 matches? And does this person only play that way against you and treat other players completely different?
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Every killer can do well against some red rank survivors because red ranks are full with people who don't belong there. There are survs who only run in straight lines and ignore windows + loops. Of course you can win against these players.
And with the upcoming rank reset change, there will be even more people at red ranks.
The problem is when you are playing against well-organized survivors who also know how to run routes correctly.
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The level-3-challenges have the potential to be even worse for the game's health than last year's Halloween event.
The devs should really rethink what kind of challenges they are releasing. It's probably too late to change anything about level 3 and 4, but I really hope they make some big changes with Tome 2.
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A lot of the challenges are unhealthy for the game, as they encourage certain types of gameplay.
I played 3 matches as survivor yesterday and I'm already having enough.
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@Superstar_Saga95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873568#Comment_873568
I always wondered, if you throw down the pallet and you still get hit, but the killer is stunned, is that intentional or lag.
In most cases it's intentional.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873518#Comment_873518
Well then, pips are a terrible way to determine whether you won or lost. If the survivors literally just stand around and do nothing all game, and just let the killer down and hook every single one of them, the killer probably won't even pip. In fact, they might depip.
The current emblem system punishes you for trying to accomplish your main objective as quickly as possible. Compared to virtually any other PvP ranking system, emblems are a joke.
That is something we can agree on.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873514#Comment_873514
Kill rates released that DEFINITELY show that survivors are NOT FAVORED at red ranks.
People on the forum: "This means nothing. We kept saying that survivors are favored against killers when it comes to ESCAPING. Now that the stats show that we were wrong, it's time to move the entire conversation to something else to prove our point.
Wow.
We don't even know the difference between solo and SWF teams. If you take a look at the forums, most of the complaints of killer mains are about balance issues with SWF teams at high ranks.
And pips tell you whether you "won" or "lost". It's the rating system the devs have implemented, so we can't ignore it.
Before you get a wrong impression, I'm a survivor main.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873471#Comment_873471
That sounds like a problem with the emblem system, and not the actual balance between survivors and killers. BHVR has stated that the ideal average kill-rate should be 50%, so it sounds like the emblem system should be reworked to fit that ideal. 1-0 kills should be a depip, 2 kills should be a safe pip, 3 kills should be a single pip, 4 kills should be a 2-pip.
Pips are what currently defines whether you "won" or "lost". So if we want to talk about whether killers or survivors are favoured, we can't ignore the pips. Pip statistics are as important as statistics about the difference between solos and SWFs.
I don't know how long you have been playing the game. Your suggestion is basically the old Victory Cube.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873471#Comment_873471
So now we are moving the goal posts to "winning" based on pipping? In my three years of playing this game, I have yet to meet anyone in after game chat that said "Wow guys, I didn't win. I 4kd all of you, but I didn't pip : ( sadpandaface"
The majority of the posts on here talk about balance around kill ratios, also. You are debating in bad faith. Also, when I say "favored", I'm obviously talking about kill/escape ratios, not pipping.
You're then twisting my argument. My argument is that the game is killer sided at red ranks because MOST times, MOST of the survivors do not escape. You could most certainly draw this conclusion from the statistics.
Pips are supposed to show how you performed in a match. Pips decide at which rank you play. With the current system, pips & winning are very much related. It's not my system, it's the devs' system.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873451#Comment_873451
They give a solid overview of the state of the game. They're quite valid to draw upon as evidence. It's not the level of information that you could get from a fansite like Dotabuff, and it certainly isn't everything (For example, it doesn't tell you why Freddy is performing so well), but looking at the data, one can safely conclude that every killer performs well, except for low-ranking Nurses.
Why shy away from hard evidence just because it doesn't provide every scrap of information we could want from the game? The ideal goal of any debate is to discuss a topic and find the truth of a matter, and hard evidence gives you a great way to do just that.
I'll just copy/paste my reply to another user:
A 2k is usually a de-pip at red ranks, a 3k a safe pip. If you want to draw conclusions from the very limited information, then you would have to come to the conclusion that the average killer de-pips at red ranks.
I don't see how this is favouring killers.
We also don't know anything about the winning (pipping) statistics for survivors at red ranks.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873451#Comment_873451
You could most certainly draw the conclusion that killer is favored at red ranks. I actually can't believe that people are arguing that you can't draw that conclusion.
A 2k is usually a de-pip at red ranks, a 3k a safe pip. If you want to draw conclusions from the very limited information, then you would have to come to the conclusion that the average killer de-pips at red ranks.
I don't see how this is favouring killers.
We also don't know anything about the winning (pipping) statistics for survivors at red ranks.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873284#Comment_873284
There's a difference between drawing conclusions based on data, and using statistical data as evidence to back an argument.
Or, if we're not even supposed to do that, then what was the point of releasing this data at all? To justify the paycheck of some intern at BHVR?
These statistics lack so many information that I wouldn't draw any conclusions from them.
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The statistics suggest that the average highrank match ends most likely with a black pip or a de-pip for the killer. (It's an assumption because of the kill rate. We would need statistics from the devs to be on the safe side.)
We also don't know how many survivors still "win" (=pip) despite getting killed. And we know nothing about the difference between solos and SWF groups.
These statistics give so limited information that they aren't really useful.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872442#Comment_872442
Optimal strategies are not a problem in themselves, but by their nature they do tend to be unenjoyable for the opposing side, and so coming up against them over and over can be quite demoralising and drain the fun out of the game. There are good reasons why many people like to avoid red ranks.
The reason I said that the chase idea was luck-dependent is because, while it does depend on your own skill to an extent, it also depends on map selection, tile generation, the killer's skill and which killer is being played, since some are much easier to loop (and to stay consistently in a chase with) than others.
We might have to agree to disagree on the window vaulting one. I can absolutely see people just staying at the same window, vaulting back and forth as much as they can while the killer closes in, because who cares if they get caught as long as they get their challenge? (Their teammates, that's who.)
Optimal strategies are the reality. If they are unfun, this has to do with imbalance/too strong items/too strong perks/too strong game mechanis. If we are at a point where players say "playing the game optimally is unfun" and "let's not encourage players to play optimally", it's time to really worry about the game.
Challenges should be about the player's skill. Chases are basically the only skill-dependent activity in DbD. Repairing gens & unhooking survs is not skill-related. If you say that chases are luck-dependent, then everything else in this game is just even more luck-dependent. 🤷
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At red ranks, a 2k is usually a de-pip for the killer and only a 4k will give you a pip in most cases.
A 75% kill rate at red ranks would make me assume an average black pip for the killer, 60% is maybe closer to a de-pip.
So instead of knowing only kill rates, it would be important to know the amount of pips, too.
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@Fibijean I don't see a problem with "encouraging optimal strategies", it's the normal thing happening at the higher ranks anyway. Not a lot of people will attempt to get their challenges done with meme builds anyway.
Lasting a certain amount of time in a chase heavily relies on your own skill and is the opposite of luck-dependent. Survivors are running "infinite loops" already, it's the devs' jobs to fix these.
Vaulting windows does not encourage people to throw chases. It's literally the opposite of "just drop as many pallets as possible" which is making the game worse for all survivors.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872309#Comment_872309
To be fair, I can't think of a single challenge they could have implemented which people wouldn't have rushed and ruined the game for other players by focusing on the challenge instead of playing the game normally.
For example:
Escape/Get x amount of kills with no perks/a certain perk/without using a certain perk.
Escape/kill everyone within a certain amount of time.
Last x amount of time in a chase without getting downed.
Vault x amount of windows during a chase.
That comes to my mind immediately, so it shouldn't be a problem for somebody who is doing this for a living to come up with something better.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872309#Comment_872309
No, I’m telling you that stuff like this will always find a way of happening.
With the current state of the game, yolo-saving will always be an issue. But that challenge encourages people to go for yolo-saves, therefore it's unhealthy for the game.
I don't see a reason why we shouldn't say it how it is. If we pretend that it's not so bad, we will get more challenges like that.
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@dkyguy1995 said:
I just don't get it. We finally get challenges in DBD and people are complaining because they can't finish the challenges on their first try everytime.
People are complaining because a lot of these challenges have nothing to do with skill. Some are just a lot of farming, others depend on how (bad) the opponent plays. Some even require you to play bad on purpose.
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"Everything like this will have outliers, people will get done with this challenge soon though."
So you are telling me to not play the game for a couple of days because the devs came up with a challenge that encourages ruining the match for other people?
Wouldn't it be better to clearly tell the devs how bad these challenges are?
The saddest thing is that it was clearly foreseeable that something like this would happen with this kind of challenge.
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@Azgard12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872197#Comment_872197
So I may be much less skilled than you, but I went 14 games without being able to do the 4 traps goal.
I only got it due to a player who wanted to farm, basically.
I hate farming.
So I'm conflicted about even attempting 5.
This has not a lot to do with YOUR skill, it has something to do with the SURVIVORS' skill.
I was lucky enough to have gotten my level-2 challenge done at the first attempt, but that was only possible because the survivors didn't play well.
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You are completely right: These challenges encourage hook farming and other stuff to throw the game. Happened already to me today.
I really have to think about playing anything else than 4-men-SWF. I'm not in a happy mood after the matches I had this evening.
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Also important to note: "unhook [high] amount of survivors" challenges motivate random teammates to not play the game properly and instead just farm their teammates. I saw this already happen today. Stuff like this is killing the fun when you aren't playing in a 4-men-SWF group.
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These challenges don't make me want to play the game more. Quite the opposite, I can see myself playing other video games more often.
Played only 3 matches today. Yolo-saving teammates are really killing the fun. These guys were most likely farming for their challenge, and I'm afraid it will continue to be like this.
So it's either playing 4-men-SWF or playing something else.
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866988#Comment_866988
They said in another thread that games with DCs in them are completely ignored for the statistics. It's in one of the threads about the stats somewhere.
Thank you!
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Are matches with dc's included in these statistics?
(Sorry if this got already asked somewhere.)
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@Shorty_Hutch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865490#Comment_865490
Us. The players, who else? I'm not saying anything about rules at all. It may not be illegal or against the 'rules' but there's a reason why people complain about it. Same as survivors who hide in lockers and just crouch around a rock. This is ' surviving ' but still bullshit. There's a reason why there's a score penalty for staying near hook
Following that logic, "genrushing" aka focussing on getting the job done would be against "the spirit of the game", too, because a part of the community is complaining about this.
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I definitely want to see an old lady survivor. But please first a cute, small male surv.
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Don't worry, you'll not notice the perk change on maps like Shelter Woods.
You'll only notice the change where Balanced Landing used to be able to create too-powerful loops, so everything is fine.
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BL's problem is not the sprintburst but the permanent stagger reduction. The devs' upcoming change is exactly what we need to bring more balance to the game.
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I want to see the day when game health comes first...
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@Shorty_Hutch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/863942#Comment_863942
Yes, yes it is. Arguably, against the spirit of the game is camping the hook tbf..
Who decides what's "the spirit of the game"?
You are talking about some made-up "rules" where the killer has to play generously, is not allowed to play efficiently, has to be the fun-provider for the survivors and where at the same time survivors are very well allowed to focus on getting their objective done.
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@Shorty_Hutch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/863734#Comment_863734
I never said it's a reason to harass someone..? but it IS going to attract bad messages in reality. And the things you've listed cannot be compared to camping and tunneling, it's the objective.
And killing the survivor is the killer's objective.
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@Hatty said:
Every game with servers is working horrible or not working at all. This is not their fault
Which ones?
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Honestly, I would prefer it if they stopped with new chapters after the current roadmaps ends and instead focussed on game health.
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The game is just not getting any optimization. You can watch the performance getting worse with each update, at least on PS4.
That's the one thing that makes me less eager to get the next update: From experience, we can expect the performance to get even worse after the Oni-chapter goes live. :/
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It's better than the old matchmaking. Don't worry.
If you notice during the match that you are facing newbies, you can play generously, of course.
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Nothing wrong with that. You are allowed to bring a good loadout and focus on getting your objective done, you don't have to play generously. This applies to both the survivor and the killer role.
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How should this even work? The devs need the PTB to test the changes, so they can't stay a secret.
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This is a video game with real people playing it. Don't try to justify toxicity with lore or whatever. Don't justify toxicity at all.
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A lot of people forget that slugging is not only boring for the survivor, it's also boring for the killer.
So why do killers still do it, even when it's boring? Because it makes a big difference in Emblem points and bloodpoints whether you get a 3k or a 4k.
What is the obvious solution? Give killers more points for a 3k.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/853332#Comment_853332
Pallet vacuums were never added, they've always been there. If you go back and watch any footage of the game at release you'll see people warp right to the far side of the pallet.
Having played since the start, I've gotta' say that it's never been easier to play killer. Even going back just a little over year ago, I used to have to deal with people teleporting to the far side of the pallet, Borrowed Time that protected both the unhooker and the person who was unhooked, DS that worked the first time you downed someone with no way to avoid it, and the list goes on.
That's not to say that it's perfect now, but to deny that it has gotten way better since would require a very selective memory. It'll likely always be more stressful just by the nature of the role; it all depends on you. You are the only one facing the four survivors. There's nobody to watch your back if you mess up.
It has never been easier to play killer, but just in theory. You have to keep in mind that players get better at playing the game and using the tools that are available to them. That's why some mechanics get changed/balanced only after a year and not immediately after they go live.
Also killer is not the stressful role because you only rely on yourself. It's stressful because of the short amount of time that survivors need to get their objective done. An extreme example: If nothing changed on the killer's side and survivors had to do 10 gens instead of 5, then killer would be the relaxed role and survivor the stressful one.