Nick
Nick
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You picked Blight though, who's (with Nurse) the only killer out of the 34 Killer roster who can accomplish this. So not the best example you couldve used
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Getting tunneled, love me some chases
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@Caiman said:
I agree. The sound and visual are very annoying to me so I want them to only appear at the 6th regression event, so they will be rarer and will only appear when the killer should start caring about it.
Yeah not to forget that crunchy sound.... ooooof so annoying
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660379#Comment_3660379
The prevent unhook thing is probably untrue... If you compare the current values to the ones on PTB it is a difference of 5% so like 0.05 seconds... If he makes unhook impossible on PTB he would do so on live, but apparently nobody noticed in that case?
Yeah you can already stop unhooks in the live game, but you dont see anyone complain about that. Somehow now after the upcoming patch its a problem? You need 2 people
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You see the game as a 1v1. If his shock doesn't stop interactions like they do know he'll be a Trapper without traps
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You're talking about tunnel vision. Blindly chasing the first moving object you see at the start of the match. But most people mean getting chased direct off hook, when theyre at their most vulnerable.
As killer you have to play strategic if you want consistent results. You could be the best chaser in the world, but getting 8 hooks before getting a kill every game will make you lose games you easily could've won.
Finding a weak link (or someone in a weak position), and hitting them straight after the unhook or waiting out bt is in many situations very efficient.
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@I_CAME said:
They need to implement limits to how many perks of a certain type each side can bring. Maybe a max of two slowdowns for killers and two second chance perks for survivors. It would encourage some perk variety at the very least. One of the most unfun things in the game for both sides is when you run into an opponent that plays like their life is on the line. Then the game becomes almost as much about the perks as it does the players. I personally don't enjoy getting teammates with meme perks and a Blight who is running four slowdowns.
They said in a livestream they don't want to do this because it limits your freedom. They want you to be able to pick whatever combination you like
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Is that a balancing problem or are most of your teammates just very bad? You can give them 10 buffs but it wont suddenly make them good. People have to learn and get better.
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People expect a clock callout team Eternal member when they see you are P100. Even though its roughly 110m BP which is what... 600 hours? 700? 800? There are people with 20x that amount
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@Nos37 said:
Implementing this seems easy enough, and I'm all for it.
However, we have to think about all the map offering players have been stockpiling over the years. All those indoor map offerings stealthy killers have been hoarding will now be useless. Same with the Garden of Joy offerings survivors have been grabbing up.
The devs will need additional time to devise a tool to calculate and redistribute map offerings in player's inventories. Either they add up each character's total number of map offerings owned and redistribute them equally (and each player has somewhere between 10 to 40 characters, and there are thousands and thousands of players).
Or they just calculate an average number of map offerings based on play time. (A player with 700 hours should have roughly x number of map offerings, so we will divide that number up between each of their owned characters.) But they would also have to consider prestige levels. A player wouldn't want all of their map offerings from their P100 survivor main to be distributed to all the survivors they don't play.
I think it's about time they let all characters (survivors and killers) share the same offering pool (Black Wards, White Wards, and Moris would be in the same pool, but only equippable for the appropriate role). Then they can redistribute map offerings based on play time and have map offerings deny a realm instead of guarantee it. Plus, it would finally bring value to shroud offerings and allow killers to make survivors start together or allow survivors to start the trial split up.
I think your first point shouldn't be a problem. You see, the 'good' offerings you will probably have the least of. Same with add-ons. Because you're using those all the time now. When I look at my Ghostface for example. I have like ~50 of every map offering, except only 1 Lerys. Even though I prioritize Lery offerings when doing bloodwebs, for obvious reasons. People don't hoard stuff they use loads of... because they're using them :)
Second point I absolutely agree with. Offerings should be shared across all killers and items+addons+offerings should also be shared on survivor. But I think that's a feature we will definitely see in the future, but that shouldn't be a potential reason to block the idea I have for map offerings. It's a different topic.
By making map offerings 'realm blockers' you fix the following problems:
- Killers picking certain builds to stomp teams on certain maps (example; Aura reading nurse on Midwich/The Game)
- Survivor groups hand picking a strong map
- People dodging map offerings during loading screens (you wouldn't dodge a map blocker because it blocks 1 out of 21 possible realms. Or maybe 4 if everyone uses one. Still a 1-17 roll)
- It will remove the weird side effect the Sacrificial Ward currently has. When you use a Sacrificial Ward and a map offering is played, there's still a chance you will get that realm, because you're only removing the extra chance from the map offering. The realm itself will still be in rotation. (I have once used 2 sacrificial wards in a row. Both blocked a MacMillan and Lerys offering, AND WE STILL GOT THOSE TWO MAPS! BS!) Not a pirate story btw, also made 2 posts here on the forums with screenshots ;p
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
If all 5 players played one you'd potentially be removing up to 10 maps with the repeat prevention factored in. Squads could just eliminate maps and still get a map in their favor.
I don't understand your logic. Could you tell me how a group would take advantage of this? Now they can just bring 1 single Garden of Joy offering. So you're scared of a whole team bringing Lerys, Hawkins, Midwich and Nostromo every match? And take a 1-17 roll for Garden?
- Nostromo (Nostromo Wreckage)
- Dvarka (Toba Landing)
- Autohaven (Wreckers', Blood Lodge, Azarov's, Gas Heaven)
- Shattered Square (Borgo)
- Crotus (Disturbed Ward, Chapel)
- Eyrie
- Ormond
- Swamp (Pale Rose, Grim Pantry)
- Hawkins
- Coldwind (Torment Creek, Cowshed, Rotten Fields, Thompson House)
- Garden of Joy
- The Game
- MacMillan (Storehouse, Shelter Woods, Suffo Pit, Coal tower) x2 variants
- Midwich
- RPD (East/West wing)
- Dead Dawg Saloon
- Lerys
- Haddonfield
- Red Forest (Mother's Dwelling, Temple)
- Springwood (1-5)
- Yamaoka (Family Residence, Sanctum of Wrath)
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
If all 5 players played one you'd potentially be removing up to 10 maps with the repeat prevention factored in. Squads could just eliminate maps and still get a map in their favor.
There are 21 seperate realms, even if all 4 survivors ban 1 of those realms it still has to roll between 17 different realms.
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You're saying survivors are bad but should still win. I wish survivors would get better but most are just crazy chill
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It's a nerf right? I think it's a nerf
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This would be meta and everyone will run this
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Agreed, the bubble has to go
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In my opinion they should've just added a gen. So instead of 7 generators you now have 8 on the map, with 5 to repair. So with 1 generator remaining you have 4 gens left, instead of 3. Much cleaner fix
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651423#Comment_3651423
Okay, so soloq should stop complaining as they are just as strong as swf. Fair.
So how about killers stop complaining swf is so overpowered? Not fair?
Sure, swfs are as good as solo q according to the stats. So everyone should stop complaining. Stats are leading.
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Because they balance based on statistics. That's the reason why Blight has had like 8 add-ons which were all incredibly strong (on top of his already strong basekit). Because the pickrate on all of these were very balanced (obviously, because all add-ons were amazing). And they nerfed Marvins Blood (Only good Nemesis add-on) and Engravings (Before Billy rework) because the pickrate on those was insane (also for obvious reasons, those were their only usable add-ons. Doesnt mean they were too strong though. But hey, stats)
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Yes, after some time. But those stacks you have you can't get rid of for some reason. When you're on 2 stacks you will get injured + deep wound + hindered at some point
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Good point actually, because currect percentages are laughable
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So Solo Q isn't that bad after all, same escape rate as SWF
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The killer (can) apply hindered, broken, deep wound, mangled, hemmorage, oblivious, while also being undetectable, and getting haste with no tell. Run to a pallet, place a drone, run to a pallet, place a drone (gameplay loop). Can't get rid of your stacks also, youre going to get that random injure at some point
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The problem is it works best on the killers with high mobility. Which are usually the stronger killers anyways. Nurse, Blight, Billy, Spirit, Wesker, Oni. They all profit the most from the Pain Res, DMS and Grim combo
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650996#Comment_3650996
Agreed, I’ve always thought it was kind of unfair that you can take down a whole perk slot in seconds if not multiple slots incredibly quickly before any use can be had from it, they should at minimum come with a can’t be cleansed for x amount of time. Maybe make them all look dull like the others as to at least not draw attention to them for x amount of time. Idk something.
You could also make a concept where Hex perks start as a dull, but turns into a Hex totem after X amount of hooks, with each hook increasing it's strength (with a cap ofcourse)
Example:
Hex Ruin starts as a dull totem, 100% regression speed
- 1 hook, 125%.
- 2 hooks, 150%.
- 3 hooks 175%.
- 4 hooks, 200%. Cap reached. Dull totem turns into a lit Hex totem.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650989#Comment_3650989
Ahh alright, thank you. I thought it was a perk that blocked any totem and not a specific totem. That person shouldn’t listen to me then, I clearly need to read up on the perks on killer side.
also devs should consider a totem blocker perk for any hex, even if its conditional(for balance or whatever)
You could use Undying to protect your Hex totem, but that takes up a whole perk slot and is also a Hex. I really like to use Ruin by itself but it always hurts when people just spawn on it and instantly cleanse it. Hex perks in general need a rework
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@HeroLives said:
So hex blood favor, plus whatever that perk is that blocks your totem from being cleansed. Again idk the name, but as survivor it’s very annoying when I want to touch that totem and can’t. Idk how much of your build you’re willing to sacrifice though to try something different.
That's Plaything. But that only blocks Plaything totems for the other 3 survivors for 90 seconds, only the person affected by that totem can cleanse it the first 90 seconds.
Imo if you want to use a Hex perk you should use 2 impact Hexes, Plaything and Penti. But on Bubba that can be doubious as you dont have map presence to rekindle Penti totems
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650963#Comment_3650963
Games with a dc are not counted in the stats
Oh the whole game doesn't count? Fair enough thanks for informing me
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@powerpuffCheryl said:
Because SoloQ is garbage
But Solo Q has basically the same escape rate as a full SWF according to the official stats. Mmm.... makes me wonder
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
She has 70% kill-rate. And dcs are not even included, probably she is even higher with them.
It's obvious, survivors are refusing to play against her. I doubt she is that strong, it's just survivors don't want to play against her.
And this brings us to this question: Do you think BHVR is fine with her and just gonna ignore that or she will get another big update? What do you think?
DC's not being included won't make much of a difference. As someone DC'ing basically kills the other 3 survivors. Which are included in the stats
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405456/bamboozle-on-bubba-is-not-worth-it
Idk the name of the perk I don’t play killer that often, but I imagine that the perk that blocks pallets would be very useful on him.
does anyone know the name of the perk that blocks pallets btw?
Thats a Hex though. You wont get to use it most of the time if thats the only hex perk you're bringing.
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Skullmerchant has a 70% killrate. How many of those are people giving up on hook or games getting ruined because someone DC'd. Don't take those stats too seriously, there's BHVR stats
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So stop complaining about Solo Q being so hard. Pretty much same escape rate as a full SWF
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646880#Comment_3646880
The fact remains that in order to provide a viable avenue for the 2 last survivors, there needs to be 'hope' for the final survivors survival, irrespective of the survivors objective progress.
This is currently provided by the hatch, but if the hatch did not exist, it would need to be provided by some other 'sudden death' sort of mechanism.
This mechanism, whatever shape it takes, will always be seen as "cheap" by shortsighted killers, because is has to be disconnected from gen progressn, and will seem "unearned".
There is no way to reconcile the need for a viable exit for the last survivor, with a killers desire for a reliable method to achieve a 4K.
The only other solution is to make a 4K less desirable. I'd propose that most of your "problems" are only problems in the context of killers trying to guarantee a 4K and not being content to either settle for the 3K or at least leave the 4th kill up to chance. After all it's not actually that difficult to 4K, if you can 3K reliably then the 4th kill being essentially a 50/50 shot is absolutely fine. If you miss it in one game, then you're likely to score it in 5he next 3K game.
An endgame where there is more interaction between the two roles would be nice though? Now you're just both running around hoping for good RNG. And when you do manage to close the hatch you have to hope for good RNG on the gates again. I often have survivors feeling themselves when they manage to get the hatch with 0% of their objective completed. Kinda doesn't make a 3k feel like a "win", because 1 other survivor also won. It feels like a rushed way to end the game, coin flip to see if you can say "ez" in chat or not
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@aerie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646880#Comment_3646880
no, i liked their comment because i agreed with it. i read your post. i feel writing everyone who disagrees with you as "people who didn't read your post" is lazy and proves you're not really here for a discussion.
plus, it's not like you gave people suggestions or anything to discuss. you just said hatch bad in 50 different ways and called it a day. idk what you expected us to say, you expected us to be like "oh yeah this guy definitely likes the hatch mechanic no problem here" like no. you clearly want it removed. replaced, sure, but yet again, you offered no solutions. you just gave a subjective complain thread and are wondering why people aren't enthusiastically agreeing with you. obviously, your subjective opinion on hatch gameplay is different than other people's because not everyone's played through the same matches as you. that doesn't mean they didn't "read what you said", muffin. it's so tiring reading people on these forums unable to handle people disagree with their subjective thoughts about gameplay mechanics.
But he's saying something I didn't say? How can you agree with that? Literally his FIRST sentence is:
"Ok, so there's 2 survivors left, there are still gens to repair, and the Hatch doesn't exist anymore."
And the FIRST problem I mentioned is:
"Two survivors hiding when the game is lost, waiting for the other to die. So they can go for hatch."
And not to mention, at the end I even asked for NEW ideas for the endgame. But that guy just assumed I would want the hatch mechanic to be removed. Making up stuff I said is not a way to "discuss" as you call it
So ofcourse I'm saying those people, including you, didn't read because you're literally arguing with no one. I didn't say to just remove the whole endgame I even asked for other ideas, I didn't say I wanted "every 2K to automatically turn into a 4K" or I want the last 2 survivors to hide?????? THATS LITERALLY A PROBLEM I MENTIONED, THE FIRST ONE!
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I have been saying for years that I hate the hatch as it forces slugging for the 4k if killers don't want anyone to escape. I cant be bothered doing this as killer, unless they were a particularly unpleasant team to deal with but plenty do like you waste your time by slugging you to get the last person. There is no benefit at all to killers for the hatch mechanic
It's only downsides for the killer. But for the survivor also, because your teammates can stop doing the objective because hatch exists or you can get slugged for 4 minutes because the hatch exists.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Its funny how survivors geta pass to just stop doing gens "because its just hopeless". Be honest, you're just doing it because scumbagging for the hatch is easier. Killers supposed to play the whole trial regardless of gens/survivors left, so survivors should do too.
Theres a solution thats already implemented in Identity V: really aggressive idle crows when you havent touched gens in a while.
When I play survivor and the game is lost with 2 survivors left I just stick to a gen and get a nice last chase. I cba to sit in a locker for 10 minutes to wait for an uneventful endgame, but the game kinda wants you to do that if you still want to win that game
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@Khastrx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646877#Comment_3646877
Seldom do I think the hatch is a problem, if anything; many other things are much higher on the list of being problematic, thus it's fine as it is.
Fair enough. Sadly hatch bothers me more than anything. Especially when playing insanely well as killer, last survivor randomly gets hatch and they write "ez noob". And rightfully so, because they escaped so they also won. But that kinda makes the 'win' not really feel like a win, because someone escaped. And I don't want to slug for the 4k, because that's boring for both sides.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646873#Comment_3646873
What if there is no fix and hatch is best fix we have?
I refuse to believe that a mechanic with so many problems is the best we have. Especially after almost 8 years. But if so then that's a shame and I expected more from this game
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@Seraphor said:
Ok, so there's 2 survivors left, there are still gens to repair, and the Hatch doesn't exist anymore.
What are survivors supposed to do? They're guaranteed to be killed the moment either one of them is found. The other one won't have the opportunity to repair any remaining gens and escape when they're the only objective left for the killer.
If the last 2 survivors don't have any chance of escaping, then they'll just give up. Which means every time the killer manages to kill the first 2 survivors, the last 2 survivors are automatically killed.
2K and 3K games will no longer exist, every 2K becomes an automatic 4K, the only outcomes will be 0K, 1K, or 4K.
Is it not 'cheap' for 2 kills to automatically become 4 kills? Were the last 2 kills 'earned'?
It's not 'cheap' that the final survivor gets a 'sudden death' 50/50 escape mechanic (that doesn't actually count as an escape btw). It's necessary for the health of the game.
Without it, every 2K is a 4K, kill rates skyrocket, tunneling becomes a more effective 'guaranteed win' tactic, forcing BHVR to heavily nerf killers.
You (and the 7 people who liked your comment) probably read the title and called it a day. I even put a TLDR at the bottem where I said the following:
"Will there be a moment somewhere in the feature where we could expect a new concept for the endgame? Has someone thought about one, is there an idea floating around? One which includes more interaction between the two roles? Which feels more satisfying for both killer and survivor? The current endgame situation creates, in my opinion, toxicity and awkward scenarios."
.... I'm not saying to remove the hatch and just let the other 2 survivors die. Because that's literally the first problem I mentioned, the last 2 survivors hiding. That will be a huge problems if you just remove the hatch like that, so why would I keep it that way?
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@Shroompy said:
After a match has reached 15 minutes, Survivors positions will be revealed briefly every so often. The frequency scales with how many are left.
4 Survivors = 3 minutes
3 Survivors = 2.5 minutes
2 Survivors = 2 minutes
Survivors also receive a repair speed bonus. Once again, this scales with how many are left.
4 Survivors = 10%
3 Survivors = 15%
2 Survivors = 25%
In addition, when only 2 Survivors remain they can pick themselves up without the help of another Survivor.
This way the killer cant just patrol a tight 3 gen (even with the current system, it can still be difficult to break through) and Survivors are more than likely not going to stick around for a 10% speed boost.
Same goes for the 3 Survivors remaining, how ever the speed boost is still not significant enough to stealth just to get it, and they get revealed every so often.
When 2 Survivors are remaining and there are still gens left the game can feel hopeless, especially if the killer slugs to get the 4k. This way the killer cant slug, but is incentivized to take chase as they get information on the current whereabouts of Survivors. This also acts to incentivize Survivors to do gens instead of hiding, because they cant.
Once 1 Survivor remains, the game stays as normal. Endgame perks are deactivated but ONLY if they close the hatch. Meaning itll still work outside of a 1v1 scenario.
Of course the numbers could be tweaked, but let me know what you think
Look, now that already sounds more interesting! The endgame we currently have is so stale. When I'm playing nurse I sometimes cba to float around the map circling every tree and rock because 2 survivors are hiding for hatch. There should be a mechanic (like you just mentioned) to keep the momentum in a game going. 3-gen completely removed that momentum but so does hatch (or the problems it creates)
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Another post about hatch is being problem but without solution of how to finish game without it.
Some people really want to back to era where EGC did not exist lol.
I don't know what's mechanically possible, nor is it my job to fix it. I'm not getting paid.
I only listed the problems I have encountered and asked if there was an idea floating around for a potential new endgame.
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Guys, I'm not saying to remove the hatch and "turn every 2K into a 4K". Read the last part of my post, I will quote it again:
"Will there be a moment somewhere in the feature where we could expect a new concept for the endgame? Has someone thought about one, is there an idea floating around? One which includes more interaction between the two roles? Which feels more satisfying for both killer and survivor? The current endgame situation creates, in my opinion, toxicity and awkward scenarios."
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Increases blind speed which makes the blind too early, so he wont drop
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@Vanishlord said:
Current hatch is fine as it rewards the last player as say if they have 2-3 gens left it is unlikely and will take them ages so it is just to give them a chance and the killer can close it.
Rewards the last player for what exactly? Not completing their objective? Letting their team die? Or putting on a hatch build to play solo mode? Or am I missing something
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646721#Comment_3646721
Yeah agreed hatch just has to go for the sake of game health. All gens must be done, and if a singular survivor makes it that far just give them a buff to open the door quicker if they spawn right next to each other(feels like free sitting duck kill against high mobility killers)bc screwed by RNG. Normal door speed if far apart killer goes into BL for movement speed instead.
They could also rework it all together and make a final endgame chase of some sorts where you both have some influence on the outcome. RNG into RNG is just outdated, hatch has to go
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@crogers271 said:
So can we just have a mercy out for 2 plus gens with 2 survivors remaining, and call it killers favor idc. They beat us, they win.I feel that a lot of people misunderstood the OP, which is fair because it was a long post and when people talk about removing the hatch they usually mean something different. If I understand the OP's argument, its that if a killer can get X kills before Y gen completion, the game just ends in a killer 4k.
Conceptually I like the idea, realistically I don't think it would work.
Why I'd like it:
- Speed up pointless games for both sides.
- Survivors might work together more to prevent someone from getting eliminated early in the match.
Why I realistically don't think it would work
- Lots of the game is built around the concept that the survivors are not a full team. Survivors have times were they have to decide to play for themselves or the groups. I don't think BHVR will ever move away from that.
- It might result in the opposite outcome where if the survivors get a bad start they just rush to sacrifice to get the game over (though I think this is the game as is).
- It might feel good for veterans, but would be annoying for new players. The game just feeling like it arbitrarily ended would be a confusing experience.
My opinion on hatch:
Hatch itself is fine, even the random nature of it. The only problem is the standoff where multiple survivors hide to draw the game out. Much like how we've addressed 3 genning because long drawn out games aren't fun, this should be addressed as well.
My suggestion:
When 2 survivors remain and more than one gens needs to be completed, both get a 60 second timer. Every second not on gens or in chase the timer decreases, every second on gens the timer goes up by 3. Once a survivors timer runs out their aura is permanently shown to the killer. If the survivors get it to one gen remaining, normal gameplay resumes.
However, at the same time that change is made, slugging for the 4k should also be addressed. If two survivors are left and there are still gens to complete, any survivor who is downed have their bleed out timer increased by 5 times the current rate.
With those solutions you will create some very BHVR-style problems.
1. Increasing(??) the slugging timer x5? Won't this make slugging even worse? So instead of crawling around for 4 minutes you will be lying there for 20 minutes? Can't see how thats fun for the survivor. Also the other survivor will have to hide for 20 whole minutes? Surely you meant DEcrease, right?
2. The aura idea might create some weird problems where people hide in lockers with distortion, hop out and in to avoid crows and recharge distortion in the locker. You'd have to go for killer instinct.
3. Problem still remains where a killer can stand on top of the hatch and wait (like Wraiths do). You'd have to give your position away by repairing a gen and die anyways.
4. RNG gates after RNG hatch. After managing to stop survivors from completing their objective you have to walk in circles to find a random hatch. Even if you also manage to reach it first you have to hope for good gates and look left and right for 2 minutes like you're at a tennis match. If you are unlucky and the gates spawns are bad you lose the survivor anyways. Reward for doing your initial objective well I guess...?
5. Hatch has no interaction between the 2 roles. You're both walking in circles twerking for the hatch to spawn in your favour. Sometimes you don't even see eachother up until you read that "ez noob" in endgame chat.
6. Hatch fuels toxicity. Survivors can play full solo builds and let their whole team die just so they can get a potential free escape at the end. It feels a bit cheap, thats why I think some survivors say toxic stuff in endgame chat because they know it was cheap and want to rub the escape in your face. Even though you won as killer it still feels cringe to let one go for free.
- This all because of the hatch btw.
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Also a problem with her is as survivor you can't lose stacks. You should lose your stacks when deactivating a drone. When you have been scanned you will get randomly injured at some point
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Change the objective from killing survivors to making survivors suffer. (Like a suffering bar, whatever). I like chases and getting chased