Nicholas
Nicholas
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- Nicholas
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I knew it wouldn't change. The "community" (aka: crying streamers) said the same thing about map sizes, gen speeds, kick action speed, DH, DS, Hatch, and the need to patrol being primary reasons why everyone has to play S or A-tier Killers. Well, all of those were addressed in The Killer's favor, and we still don't see anything other than the same Killers and Perks. The LED pistons have free up S tier killers with high mobility from patrolling gens to zeroing in on the one with the most progress and more free time to tunnel and camp.
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The game should be responsive and adjust the map layouts (and maybe Perks) based on The Killer. This is the only way to balance things when the cast is so vast and varied.
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@Blueberry said:
Hit issues are ping related. Not much to do here.
I agree the top S tier killers are hindering balancing for all the rest of the lower tier roster.
I just think we should remove the skew towards the current ones, we don't need a different skew. Keep it random.
Ping is a factor, but the real issue is how hits are handled; hits are still handled on The Killers' end. That's the problem! The game needs to transition from Server-Side Hit Validation to Server-Side Hit Authority. The system is officially referred to as 'Favor The Killer,' and it does precisely that.
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You're right, look at the generator pistons. They were changed to coincide with other anti-tunnel and camp mechanics, but despite those being scrapped, they haven't reverted the piston change, which is a tremendous buff for Killers. It does seem like a lot of these changes are a precursor to justify more killer buffs that never seem to get reverted. One of the most significant pain points for survivors, even survivors that are unaware of it, is 'Favor The Killer.'
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It's a huge buff for killers. I can now see from a great distance which generators have progress, it saves time by avoiding running across map to a generator with little progress.
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@cogsturning said:
It's a stupidly small distance. Camping is still really easy. The change they were going to do wasn't enough and it still got canceled, which is wild to me.
I agree, but I'm not surprised because the devs are terrified of trying anything that doesn't benefit The Killer. They always revert it or go too far in the wrong direction. Boil Over change is a good example. All they had to do was either add Hooks to certain areas or reduce BO a bit, but instead they nerfed BO, added MORE Hooks, and added Hooks to new areas that never had them.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028975#Comment_4028975
1 token. With constant wall hacks the perk is useless.
I agree, the game is basically Dead by Auras nowadays—too much aura reading. Faster killers, faster break and kick actions, less need to patrol (thanks to LED pistons), frequent aura reveals, and smaller maps have made it so that The Killer is often in chase 24/7. I rarely see The Killer not in chase. And the hopelessness of many Trials is a significant pain point too. And DbD needs players to feel HOPEFUL about Trials; it's an important motivator to keep playing, knowing there's a chance to succeed, but that hope has dwindled with each update.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
If you talk about Skill… are all Killers allowed?
Remember the Skill gap between Trapper and Nurse.
Survivors would need some base game things or you have a full Slug Party for 4 Minutes or Camping on demand (if you remember the last Chaos Shuffle it was free tunneling cause no perks.)
Yeah, Chaos Shuffle gave a taste of what it would be like, but worse, since Killer Powers vs nothing doesn't sound too fun for Survivors. I imagine queue times for The Killer would reach 60-90 minutes. Chaos Shuffle would be better if The Killer were also shuffled, and no add-ons/items for anyone. That mode makes people bring their best killers with top add-ons! I want Lights Out to return.
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I also wonder, especially with good ideas that benefit everyone. I remember asking if we would ever get a higher tick rate (benefits everyone) and it was downvoted into oblivion. What's not to like about the servers updating more often? lol
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
A short, of the top of my head, list of "reasons that killers tunnel", since about 6.1.0:
- Gen speeds
- Dead hard
- DS
- Dead hard again
- Circle of healing
- Prove thyself
- BNP
- Medkits
- Maps are too big
- Tile chaining
- Pallets are too strong
- MfT
- Survivors are playing healthy (too many health states)
- Survivors are playing injured (just doing gens)
- Distortion (can't find anyone)
Every one of these has been addressed, and each time the goal post moves again. Because tunneling itself is the problem and the cause.
why they occur
Tunneling is a base kit comeback mechanic that is always available and has no downside for using it immediately as the game starts. It is simpler to execute for the killer than it is to counter for survivors, making it highly effective.
Tunneling at 5 gens is not a response to anything. In fact, doing so makes gen speeds worse, because the killer has decided to force the game to be a race: put all of their attention on one player and leave 3 others to do gens. The match becomes a race to see if 3-4 gens are finished before the killer can get 3 hooks on the same person to eliminate them.
When it works, the killer wins.
When it doesn't work, people post like this: complaining about the flavor if the month, or defaulting to "gen speeds". Even if "doesn't work" is one match out of an entire game session.
And, clearly, the killer community does not allow BHVR to actually address this issue, so it will not get better.
This really encapsulates the situation perfectly. You missed DS 2.0, when they restored the stun to 5s and Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe. Killer players also complained about DH Validation and Pallet Validation, resulting in the elimination or gutting of those systems. I specifically remember the healthy complaints and how Self-Care was too strong, and I thought to myself, 'people wasting time in a corner to heal is great for The Killer.' So they nerfed it, and more people decided to stay Injured and work on Generators. They don't want people to be able to heal, but they also don't want them working on gens while injured.
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I can't stop laughing when people try to compare something finite and mostly one-time use add-ons to what The Killer can bring. Killer add-ons are unlimited, usually work in perpetuity, and most fundatamentally change The Killer's Power in compelling and sometimes devastating ways.
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Yes, more servers, a higher tick rate, and, most of all, Server-Side Hit Authority! I am tired of the high-latency killers having an advantage in every match. Move the hits to the server.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951593#Comment_3951593
Yeah that would be great! it shouldn't be to hard to optimize it xD
I hope we get 120, but I would also be happy with better visuals on the PS5 Pro. I wish they would say. Did they upgrade the game for Switch 2?
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The problem is that tunneling is too easy and effective, and the game doesn't do enough to discourage it. I don't think punishing The Killer is a good idea. They should be able to tunnel if they want, but make it more challenging to do so. After getting unhooked, the Survivor should gain speed, silence, and concealment from Aura and Killer Instinct, and make it a meaningful number, so if The Killer wants to tunnel, it will come at a great effort and potentially at a devastating cost.
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The Status Effect should always show when The Killer has a way to one-shot you, even if it is optional. It helps alert Survivors to a potentially devastating strike. The Cannibal and The Hillbilly can also one-shot at any time, so it makes sense that they lack the Status Effect. However, The Oni should have too, since, like The Shape, his is limited to specific periods. It's why The Ghostface has the Exposed icon come up. The game needs more uniformity, not less. So any Killer that can one-shot you during specific moments should trigger the Exposed icon.
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@JPLongstreet said:
From what I recall unless the achievement or trophy is completely impossible to attain they cannot alter them at all.
Many developers find ways around it, such as running events or offers that double or triple progress to ease the requirements.
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The issue is excessive or time consuming activation conditions for perks that provide a very limited, narrow and mediocre effect. Then there are perks that deactivate too easily, or are no longer available. Then there are some perks that have a use limit that doesn't always make sense. And then they are so slow to change, it takes them months to research whether they should add one additional second to a perk.
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Yeah, and when was the last time they talked about Realm Beyond?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
I don't think it's been disabled — I just don't think there was ever a robust system to validate hits in the first place. This has been an ongoing problem for years, that they only made worse by removing the ability to view the Killer's ping in the lobby.
Until they implement a decent hit validation system, you should be free to abandon against players who have crazy ping IMO.
I agree we should be able to leave the match without penalty under the circumstances. It was a miserable experience for everyone, and as a result, no one wanted to play anymore. They're just aren't any prolific Survivor streamers that raise the issue, so it never gets talked about. It's also a topic the devs don't want to bring too much attention to, they always avoid it.
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I agree with OP. They could implement a few minor changes now to provide some relief. Namely, concealment from Killer Instinct for X seconds after being rescued, so you don't get insta-tunneled by The Legion during Feral Frenzy after you're rescued. Basekit Ubreakable after X seconds of slugging. There's also a trend that negative changes for Survivors go live despite pronounced protestations during PTB (AFK Crows, for example). Still, the other way around, they usually get cancelled within days of the PTB (Some exceptions, I'm aware).
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I hope Lights Out at least returns for a shorter duration, even a Lights Out weekend event would be nice. I want to experience it once on my OLED.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
It really isn't but I guess we will see how these changes will change the balance of the game.
Either way, I am all for anti tunnelling measures as the tunnelling is ridiculous at this point. A minority of killers ruined it for everyone, as they simply tunnel someone out every single match, which makes the match almost unwinnable for survivors and just creates all round misery for the majority of the players in the match.
This took longer than I hoped it would but better late than never.
I agree. Tunneling is useful and sometimes needed but it's become so rampant and effective that it needed intervention. Some tunnel out of the gate, before anything is done. I just don't want to see useless potato Survivors given a boost. I wish they factored in contributions because if you're only hiding all game, by all means get taken out lol
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I wouldn't guess it is always a licensing issue because many original Chapters lack a map or realm! Why didn't we get new realms or maps for The Twins, The Trickster, and The Blight? The dev started skipping new realms for Chapters, then they started doing variants of existing maps instead, and now we're down to a single tile lol
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This needs to happen. Killers have a tremendous advantage with lag, and some abuse it. I have great matches with Killers <50; it feels snappy and crisp. Even 100 isn't too bad, but when you start getting higher, especially at the 250 range, it's a problem. It's not fun; the hits are so delayed and strike from such great distances.
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Yes, it's really annoying, especially when you're trying to go eat or do something, but can anyone really blame survivors? I've been in that situation, and I'll surrender myself, and it's still not enough for them. They have to slug and go after the other person instead of just letting the Trial play out, and maybe they get the hatch, and maybe they don't.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987720#Comment_3987720
If you mean when you vault window with lythe and he grabs you or what you loose your window perks?
Yeah because the usage of all window and vault perks and then it snaps you into his grasp on the other side of the window with everything on cooldown. So now you've lost your perks, you've lost your momentum, you'll slow vault because you're so close to the window and ultimately you're screwed lol
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@Foggyguy said:
It's due to the devs deciding the game needs to at it's fundamental level cater to killers. Any and all hit detection is validated on the killers screen instead of the sever so the worse ping they have the easier it gets for them and the harder it is for you.
Yes, exactly right. They are coddling killer players from the old P2P days, where The Killer was the server. They are reluctant to adopt a neutral and fair system that lets the server handle hits. This also makes exploiting Killer so easy. If you want easy downs, induce the right amount of lag, and you will always hit. The thing I hate about The Mastermind is facing him with any vault/window perks. You lose them and still get snapped into his grasp. At least reset my Perk CD when this happens.
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@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3985561#Comment_3985561
how is that on player exactly…?
that's on bhvr to fix it not the player ?
and that's not even a matter of balance that's just a matter of ping which can be abused by both sides???
i don't get the point of your reply
the system is known to favor one killer that has a pull because of fps related issues which has no relations to actual balance so the game must be killer sided
????
please re-read what i said i think u misunderstood something?
You misunderstand, and so feel free to reread it. I also never said it was anyone's fault, but now that you mention it, some Killer players will induce the lag to take advantage of it. Survivors have no lag advantage; that's a misconception. "Hits are handled on The Killer's end," is the official statement. Read the dev blog or look up the stream discussing the matter for further insight.
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@PigWithTvs said:
healing circle took
4 MONTHS TO NERFover a year to nerf not to mention it was broken beyond balance, i don't wanna even see anyone telling me it was balanced or even close to balanced on releaseit literally reached the point where all killers quit whatchu on about??
"killer sided" the game hasn't been killer sided since springtrap, gens fly, healing is in the moon, killers are struggling hence why there is a lot of tunneling
yes i agree fog viles got overnerfed but that doesn't make the game "killer sided"
ridiculous amount of nerfs they do to survivors….?
they didn't they just buff bontey knowledge? and vigil is still broken….sure…"NERFS"
oh and they removed the only counter to strong medkits and toolboxes franklin's look at all of these survivor nerfs
do u even play killer or this game in general?
the only buff killers got was clown and literally even clown mains were against it
nothing about the current game or these formus is killer sided lmao
The game has been "killer-sided" since day one. Before the introduction of dedicated servers, everything was handled on The Killer's end, and Survivors endured years of a permanent killer advantage in every Trial. Now with dedicated servers, Survivors continue to endure a killer advantage in every match where The Killer's ping is <350 ms. If The Killer's ping is over 350 ms, the server will "validate" certain hits and interactions, but The Mastermind is one of the exceptions; his power isn't validated, so a laggy Wesker is almost always gg. This system is known as Favor The Killer, and it does precisely that.
Note, the 350 ms threshold has been tested by players as the threshold where the server begins to validate hits, but the precise figure is unknown and could change at any time. Bhvr hasn't disclosed it.
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Seeing who is in a Locker, crouching, running, or idling with crows would be nice info on the HUD. I doubt we will ever see it. The one thing that would be GREAT to see on the HUD is wiggle progress. It would make taking hits much better for randoms. I always feel bad when someone takes a hit, especially if they get downed. Meanwhile, my meter is 60%, or they have Iron Grasp, etc.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983080#Comment_3983080
That's an extremely good suggestion and one I can comfortably say has already been shared with the team :) I'd be more than happy to re-share it, though! As for the size of BP rewards, I'm happy to share that feedback as well. We're always looking at how we can make challenges like this feel rewarding, and that doesn't necessarily have to mean BP.
I'm tired of BP; it has become an essentially meaningless currency. I never not have any to spare, usually swimming in millions. Yes, I know you can use them to Prestige, but that system is pointless outside of P3 for the Perks.
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@Pulsar said:
It's a nice video, but I've heard a lot of talk from BHVR over the years.
We'll see what actually ends up happening.
Well said. They make lots of promises, and it all sounds great, but then it never materializes or is endlessly delayed. Like what happened with next-gen (now current-gen) improvements to the game? Improved visuals, Ray Tracing, Enhanced Lighting, Realistic Blood, Shadows, etc. We never got any of it. We also never got the promised PS4 Pro and Xbox One X Enhancements. And the Realm Beyond is still unfinished.
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@Teh_DuuuDe said:
Nothing will change. Behavior will just give out a million blood points or a free cosmetic and hope things quiet down.
Maybe this time we will get a DDoS Charm to commemorate the occasion as a thank you.
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I've seen it twice so far. Once against The Cannibal, and since Survivors all spawn together, he got two downs at the start lol
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Pre-nerf Franklins was super annoying and pretty strong, but from the killer perspective there isn’t much else available to counter a team all bringing strong items. As is usually the case, it was overnerfed and is basically useless now. It needs to have at least some effect on removing charges from items to make it worth using.
The devs have a habit of this. When Boil Over was buffed, it became overtuned and oppressive on specific maps, such as the old RPD Library and other upper levels without a Hook. Then they nerfed Boil Over, added Hooks to upper levels, and opened up some spots to make the path to a Hook shorter. They often overdo it, going too far too fast prematurely.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Do gens if they camp the hatch. They can either camp the hatch or come after you.
They can do both. As soon as you finish that generator, they will close the Hatch and now know where you are. This is not always a viable option.
If the devs are serious about bringing a Trial to a quick close, there's no valid reason why the Hatch shouldn't auto-close. The current experience deprives Survivors of opportunities and Perks that may provide relief or even a comeback from some situations. This was done in the name of "swiftly ending matches so everyone can move on to the next." Keep it consistent. The Hatch should auto-close so everyone can move on to the next match.
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@jesterkind said:
They're different kinds of perks- afaik most survivor aura reading perks, which would be the better comparison, do work when the survivor using them is in the dying state.
IE, if you have Alert and the killer breaks a pallet while you're on the ground, I'm pretty sure it does still activate.
Survivors have a bunch of perks that activate in the injured state specifically, and killers don't have an equivalent because they don't have an injured state. Killers do have perks that only work on injured survivors, though, like Alien Instinct or Blood Echo.
Some good points, but these perks don't have to also work in the Dying State. The fact that these Perks do work makes slugging super practical and appealing.
You don't need to bring slug perks, but you should to be an effective slugger. No one runs Deerstalker because you get better value out of myriad other Perks, Powers, or Add-ons, which will show the aura of Survivors regardless of their health state. I wonder if removing the aura read on dying Survivors would make slugging a little less appealing. And if adding slugging perks would cause players to consider their playstyle and approach more closely.
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@ThatRyanB said:
I really appreciate you flagging this! I've raised this to the team so that they can investigate.
That's a good thing considering how Favor The Killer lets laggy vomit hit you. Not to mention The Executioner's Torment Trail being invisible on your screen, but it still inflicts Torment on the Survivor. Put some urgency on these issues that impact the Survivor experience.
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P100 icon should be animated!
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I agree, and also think it's time to take advantage of the power of the PS5 Pro and add additional enhancements to the game. Perhaps we can finally get a 120 FPS mode or the five-year promise of Ray Tracing.
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I have three words for you: Favor The Killer! Look it up if you're curious what it means, but it has to do with how hits are handled.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I agree that something should be done about situations where there are two survivors left and one of them gets slugged because killer is trying for 4K and slugged survivor can’t abandon because the other survivor is hiding, holding out for hatch. Easiest solution would be to allow the slugged survivor to abandon in these situations because at that point the match is essentially over. I can’t really see a downside to allowing abandons in these situations.
No, because the bot will crawl towards you to get picked up, and if they are injured, they will run to you to get healed. Some killers will abuse this to find the last survivor. What we need is the ability for survivors to bleed out and die with dignity or to restore themselves to the injured state. Abandonment is not optimal for every situation because it creates a bot, and sometimes that can exacerbate the problem in the first place.
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Solo Q is miserable. I noticed few commit to gens and often abandon them, letting that 50% or higher gen just regress unnecessarily. A lot of times, they are too afraid, even at zero hooks and in the healthy state.
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Yeah, too killer-sided. The best thing to do in these situations is to cram all the challenges during the final week. That way, you can get a lot of them done simultaneously since some overlap. I always do this to minimize the headache and inconvenience of playing in an event playlist that isn't fun
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904848#Comment_3904848
Interessting that it didn't tag me xD
Well probably, but they didn't do it very much until now then. Depending on map, killer and general mood of dbd you will have framedrops from time to time. I play on highest setting you can to be fair even tho I know low would run much better (I think I heard medium is actually the most consistent fps-vise), but that still shouldn't be a reason to drop - dbd's requirements are really low, and I can play re4 as example with 120 fps and some of the highest graphics xD
I must've missed this, but yeah, that makes sense. I'm still hopeful we can get some improvements. I'd love to see 120 or even RT that they promised over five years ago.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
So in your scenario, you were on hook and your friend was downed. Why are you assuming that the killer would wait for the mori? They could have just… picked up and hooked your friend. Game over.
@Shroompy said:
Ok so lets assume the mori wasnt the option
whats stopping him from just picking them up
@angrychuck said:
I really don't understand what you think was going to happen in this situation if the killer couldn't mori because they were definitely going on the hook and not just waiting around with the killer for a mori.
No, you're missing the myriad scenarios that play out so often that the devs decided to eliminate the waiting period for the Finisher Mori. The Killer frequently waited to trigger the Mori, but no more. This bypasses numerous perks and options for Survivors to make a comeback.
Three on hook, and one downed, doesn't mean game over if the slugged had access to several recovery options, including Deliverance. Now that person is instantly killed, and everyone else is sacrificed.
@ChucksterMainin said:
some of you killers in here might not do it but Killers do wait about 60% of my games they are waiting. slugging out the last person so on and so on
My experience is mostly waiting, around 95% of the time, for the Mori. Eliminating the waiting period is a nice change for The Killer, but it calls the Trial too early in their favor, and sometimes, there is still plenty of game to be had.
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The game feels stale and dull for Survivors, not much innovation for them. Boons were a significant and exciting change, but Invocations are a disappointment: they carry high risk and cost in terms of health state and time, with mediocre returns. The game is essentially becoming Undetected, and Aura reads every few seconds. I know firsthand, thanks to Object of Obsession. My Aura goes out every 30 seconds, and I can rarely ever see anyone in return.
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@cogsturning said:
As someone who plays both sides and has zero tolerance for people who hide and wait for teammates to die, I wanted something to be done to locate the hiding player. As killer, if I hook the second to last survivor and do a loop of the map and no one comes to save them, I will stand by the hook until they can unhook and, very often, they lead me to the coward. Unfortunately, I've never had a killer do this for me. Many don't seem to piece together what dynamics are going on on the other side.
When I play surv, I never wait for bleedout for hatch. I care more about being on a team and doing things to help teammates. We both deserve a chance to leave. But now, if I'm creeping my way back to a slugged survivor, I get crows. I have to stop and waste time touching a gen just to keep them at bay, which often broadcasts my location to the killer. I'm seeing people with crows when I play killer and there's a 3gen, and I know they don't deserve them, they just couldn't do much.
I don't know how they thought this would be good. The punishing of survivors is so baffling to me, since you need four times the amount of people who want to play that role, yet they make it harder and harder to do anything. And now when I switch to killer I just feel bad for the survivors because I know how rough it's gotten. The only people that ever seem to manage okay no matter what are the coordinated teams.
I agree, but sometimes being a coward is the smart move. I will die with dignity if the circumstances aren't optimal for a rescue, and I prefer the other to have a chance. I remember a recent Trial (pre-patch) on Backwater Swamp vs The Pig, two left, and Meg was hooked. The Pig was camping in a bush; I could see her from Meg's and Jill's perspectives. Jill was injured and crying; there was no way she could rescue successfully, so she left the area. The Pig facilitated a self-unhook, and Meg ran right to Jill, and both were killed. I wish Survivors considered the circumstances before they decide to betray. Jill did nothing wrong and was a great teammate. I hate playing with Survivors who are super eager to escape at any cost or would rather see everyone die than for one escape.
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This is a real thing, so why isn't it a consideration? I was in a Trial last night while using Boon: Exponential and couldn't even pick myself up. Why is this a thing now? I could've fully recovered and gotten the rescue; it wasn't a hopeless situation.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950252#Comment_3950252
Yes. But to be fair, this is also when you let the game autofill single Bloodwebs. It tries to go for the cheapest things, so if you want to stockpile Iridescent Add Ons, you will not really get them.
IMO the Bulk-spending is not worth it. I tried it with a BPS (which is the thing I want the most in Bloodwebs) in the active Bloodweb which would 100% be taken by the Auto-Fill, but the Bulk-spending did not get it.
In general, I think this is only really recommended for people who really dont care at all what they get.
I agree and so I'm going to stick to mostly manually leveling up so that I can choose.