NMCKE
NMCKE
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@SoulKey I think your jumping to conclusions, it wouldn't be very unsafe to a point where it's a GUARANTEED hit for the killer. It would be unsafe enough that it's a mind game to loop the killer, which I feel like the developers are trying to do with line of sight blockers. If you have a problem with the developers direction, go to the developers and complain please.SoulKey said:ummm then what would be the use of the pallet if you can just go around it in less than a second and take a hit ? Are you serious ?
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@GT_Legend2 It's why I stopped playing Huntress, it's ridiculous how stupid the lag is! Then I get called "Your trash!" and I'm like "Dude the Huntress has a lag issue with her hatchets." Then he said "Don't play all innocent! The typical lag excuse lmao!" I wish Huntress didn't have such a crippling lag issue so I can hook and repeatedly hit this person while he's on the hook to show him "Remember how you called me trash ^.^ They fixed the hatchet lag issue so I wanted to test it out on you for fun you know?"GT_Legend2 said:@Nickenzie The Lag is too much, paired with a controller, the Huntress is a mid tier killerTHE DEVS MUST IRRADICATE THIS AT ONCE
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@chickenman12365 I think you either need to learn how to loop better or know when to abandon the loop. This should help you with that
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@GT_Legend2 OMGOSH someone, finally someone points out the the Huntress FPS issue with her hatchets! I thought everyone was accepting the Huntress FPS drop when throwing her hatchets, thank you for speaking out!GT_Legend2 said:I haven’t played the update yet on XBOX, but I know I’ve had terrible frames when I release hatchets on Huntress, this should be fixed soon, too frustrating -
@Cetren The killer can CLOSE the hatch if they find it first which will sacrifice the survivor. If they decide to stand in the middle of the hatch which for some reason it won't give the survivor the option to jump in, it's only two minutes. However I'll state again, the killer can CLOSE the hatch so there should be no reason why the killer would have to stand in the center of the hatch if he can just close it.Cetren said:This doesnt seem to really solve standoffs though, what's stopping the killer from standing on top of it until two minutes have expired if they find it first? -
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@Nosferatu
I feel like pallets should be more of a "throw it down and forget about it" type of thing instead of a place to waste the killer's time. Here's my idea, increase the amount of pallets to 30 but every pallet loop will be unsafe, there would be no such thing as a safe pallet. What this would do is that if a survivor tried to pallet loop a killer, the survivor would be taking a BIG risk on getting hit every time.
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@jiyeonlee I didn't know why they didn't do the, 3 second running requirement to activate your Sprint Burst. It would allow stealth killers to do their job and it wouldn't let survivors be cocky anymore with the perk.
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@DocOctober Great idea, I would careless if that was a possible change!DocOctober said:Alright, let's say "remove" as in remove the current functionality. I know that the devs won't delete a Perk.
I'd prefer it if NOED would have no one-hit, but a greater and permanent movement speed buff. Kind of like a No One Outruns Death. A 6/9/12 percentage would be good. That gives most Killers the speed of a cloaked Wraith on Tier 3.
One of my main things I look for is, will the perk change be fun for both survivors and killers alike. Your idea is really fun, GREAT JOB because no one likes getting NOED.
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@DocOctober I highly doubt the developers will go as far as REMOVING a perk because they didn't do that with Decisive Strike. They thought Decisive Strike was worth trying to save so they took their valuable time to rework it. Currently, I love the their version of Decisive Strike, it's more killer friendlyDocOctober said:I think I gave my reasons why.
Since you don't like the, current state of NOED, how would you rework it? I'm just curious of how you would change it because I seen your other post about perk balance which by the way you did amazing on, so I want to see the direction you'll take with NOED
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@DocOctober I strongly agree with your statement and is something I'm trying to understand. Why use perks balance the game? It should be a rework of the game mechanics like pallet vacuum which helps with looping, not a perkDocOctober said:Yes, but that is a problem of fundamentally flawed game mechanics and shouldn't be "fixed" with Perks.
Developers, I know your trying but NEVER use perks to balance a game.
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@DocOctober I think I know where your coming from because NOED can reward killers for their mistakes. However just keep this at the back of your head, most killers are weak, and can't apply pressure as fast as Nurse can. It's why you see Wrath and Freddy use NOED because regardless of how skillful the player is, they always get gen rushed but that's not their fault, the killer itself doesn't allow the player to be skillful. Yeah they can play a different killer but they might not want to.DocOctober said:And yes, NOED may punish Survivors for bad play (not cleansing totems), but it also rewards the Killer's failure at putting up pressure, which is the part which I dislike about it.
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@Visionmaker Yeah, what you said is all true and with great reasoning! However this where we enter a grey area, when a survivor is on the hook, they aren't guaranteed another chance to get off. DS delays you from entering X phase of sacrifice but it doesn't exactly save you from the hook. Once your on the hook, you'll need to hope that your teammates will save you. At most Decisive Strike grantees you at least one "get out of jail free" card while the hook is completely random with you getting another chance, you may get one hooked, two hooked, or three hooked. Additionally, Decisive Strike has a "hard counter" which is called dribbling but this requires you to be downed near a hook. On the other hand, the kobe combo can save you while your on the hook, your talking about making something that's supposed to be unpredictable and making it predictable. There has been multiple situations where the killer left me to chase out the remaining survivors through the exit gate.Visionmaker said:It's not though. You sacrifice your entire first stage for a chance to get away without assistance. DS prevents you from lowering your hook stages period, basically giving you an extra life.
Again, it doesn't matter if DS resets your hook stages or prevents you from moving to the next stage. It will be meaningless I'd you get one hooked after using it and DS can't save you then. The point I'm trying to make is the hook is something you can't really escape from and DS can't help you with escaping. It basically delays the process from you moving on to the next stage of sacrifice.Visionmaker said:DS prevents you from lowering your hook stages period, basically giving you an extra life.
I meant to say two minutes because most killers won't be so paranoid about someone kobe-ing, it's a 4%. If the killer is going to camp you, 9/10 times they will camp you through the first and second stage of sacrifice which is two minutes, not just the first. Actually I never seen a killer camp a survivor for the first phase of sacrifice because again it's a 4%, mostly every killer won't worry about a 4% unless they seen 2-4 salty lips on the offering screen.Visionmaker said:Even if the killer camps, the killer would be wasting two minutes of his time which is time for my teammates to do generators.
Also, you're incorrect: the killer doesn't have to camp you for 2 minutes. The killer only needs to camp you for 1 minute. First hook stage is when you are allowed to Attempt Escape and it only lasts 1 minute, not 2.
@Visionmaker You have a point with saying the kobe combo is inconsistent. It's RNG, the killer may camp you, and you may not be able to escape. However kobe-ing is just so fun!
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@DocOctober How does Ruin or NOED reward you for your for mistakes? Not that I don't disagree with you but I'm just curious as to how you see NOED and Ruin as a handicap to killer's when it's not the killer fault. The survivors have more control than the killer on how fast the game will go. Even the best killers like Nurse without ruin would have to play out of her mind to do well. All killers have to rely on pressure (momentum), if your applying a lot of pressure, the game will slow down. While applying little to no pressure at all will cause the game to go faster which is something you don't want. The problem is that most killers can't apply pressure fast enough, a good example is trying to down a survivor. If a survivor loops you for 3 minutes, that was 3 minutes of you having no pressure has caused the other 3 survivors time to do generators. C'mon you'll have to admit at one point that you played a map where one survivor looped you for a great amount of time and you couldn't do much about it due to the pallet spawns, not because of YOUR MISTAKE. Ruin slows the game by allowing the killer to go for long durations of not applying any pressure at all which NOED punishes survivors for NOT cleansing all of the totems because they took advantage of you having no pressure which is something killers struggle with.DocOctober said:@Nickenzie
I despise Hex Perks in general. Not a single one of my Killers (I have levelled them all) uses Ruin. I'm doing fine without it.And as I also said: I despise Perks that reward people for their mistakes. I don't care whether or not a Perk has counters or is "needed" in a current meta, they need to go.
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@DocOctober I completely agree with your DS statement and reasoning however I completely disagree with your NOED suggestion. Okay, let me state the obvious meta which is gen rushing, games are just too fast killers. Now think of NOED as a hard counter to this strategy, if the survivors gen rush you, they won't have enough time to cleanse every totem. If the survivors do try to cleanse totems, they are not focusing on generators which buys the killer time. In a sense, it's like a reverse ruin which can catch multiple survivors by surprise.DocOctober said:DS rewards the user by screwing up a chase and getting caught. It completely resets any progress the Killers has worked towards in that chase and can oftentimes make the difference between a kill or not, especially end-game.
NOED rewards the user for not being able to put enough pressure on the Survivors to prevent all Generators from powering. It tends to give a lot of kills that regarding the circumstances, are not deserved/earned by the Killer.
@DocOctober I want you to not use ruin, just see how much control you have over the survivors on generators. I can guarantee you that you won't have no more than 5-7 minutes that games unless the survivors you are facing are low ranked or just joking around.DocOctober said:NOED rewards the user for not being able to put enough pressure on the Survivors to prevent all Generators from powering.
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@Visionmaker I mean it kinda is DS technically because it gives you a get out of jail card if you do kobe. On the live build, I used the Up The Ante + Slippery meat combo because I was tired of using meta perks. I basically kobe-ed every game (the RNG lords loved me) and it feels so powerful, one time the exit gate was open and the killer was chasing the three survivors out. Before they escaped, I kobe-ed and dead hard past the killer. Even if the killer camps, the killer would be wasting two minutes of his time which is time for my teammates to do generators. Additionally let me correct you, I wouldn't have three attempts, you would have six attempts (Slippery meat) which I think you seen my math that it gives you 77.48004% to kobe (with @DocOctober version), you could probably do it in 5 or 4 attempts. However this is where you made a great point, it's RNG, if I don't kobe, I basically threw the game for my team but it's more fun to kobe with my amazing odds of success.Visionmaker said:
That's quite an exaggeration. It doesn't effectively give you an extra life like DS does, and you still have a minute maximum to Attempt Escape. If you actually want to use the third attempt, you have to begin it within a few seconds of being hooked.Coupled with the risk of the killer being too close and the individual being the only target without anyone else to serve as a shield or healer, you're essentially giving yourself a huge chance of suicide.It is innately countered by camping, tunneling, and by the nature of hooks. Alongside the fact that the act of kobe-ing leaves you incredibly vulnerable for a few seconds.I think it will be powerful, but a risky niche at its very best, even when discounting complete failure to unhook one's self.The only reason why kobe works at all right now is because it's so rare that killers don't bother with it, and some killers even let people go because it's so absurd.
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@BLUE_APE Great job on your suggestions, somethings are off a little but that doesn't matter. KEEP IT UP
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@DocOctober I'm assuming everything you posted before is exactly the same as before because you haven't changed how OP your version of Up The Ante would be. I'll repeat myself from the other postDocOctober said:- Up The Ante: buff the numbers to 2/4/6 %.
Great job on the changes, well done! However Up The Ante will become the new Decisive Strike with those numbers, I'll explain with math. So your version of Up The Ante with 3 tokens will give every survivor including yourself a 18% chance to all RNG actions, not bad but let's look at specifically the "Attempt escape" action when your on the hook. It's a 4% currently on 2.0, so your new kobe % will be 22%, holy moly! 100%-22%=78% to not kobe for one attempt, now let's cube that number, 78%^3=47.4552% to NOT kobe in 3 attempts. Let's use slippery meat to spice it up
78%^6=22.51996% to NOT kobe in 6 attempts, oh boy, the new Decisive Strike! Yeah you'd have to use 2 perks to have a 77.48004% chance to kobe and all 3 survivors for the best % chance. However being able to safe yourself from the hook is probably the most powerful thing in the game. "Dang, I got hooked... hey guys just keep working on generators and I'll unhook my self when the killer leaves." "Okay, we'll keep working on generators." Yeah, it's RNG but your likely going to kobe around a 8/10 ratio so it would be rare to not kobe.
- Up The Ante: buff the numbers to 2/4/6 %.
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@ShrimpTwiggs I was hoping they would nerf Sprint Burst by having a 3 second running requirements before your Sprint Burst would activate. I mean the exhaustion nerf was okay but I feel like that was a unnecessary nerf and they could have took a different approach.
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@Runiver I remember in KYF that everyone would use slippery meat and Up The Ante. It's basically a 100% to kobe when we did and it was odd, I never seen what it looks like to kobe, it ruined the surprise. I wanted it to be like winning the lottery which makes you feel better about getting so lucky.
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@DocOctober Great job on the changes, well done! However Up The Ante will become the new Decisive Strike with those numbers, I'll explain with math. So your version of Up The Ante with 3 tokens will give every survivor including yourself a 18% chance to all RNG actions, not bad but let's look at specifically the "Attempt escape" action when your on the hook. It's a 4% currently on 2.0, so your new kobe % will be 22%, holy moly! 100%-22%=78% to not kobe for one attempt, now let's cube that number, 78%^3=47.4552% to NOT kobe in 3 attempts. Let's use slippery meat to spice it upDocOctober said:- Up The Ante: buff the numbers to 2/4/6 %.
78%^6=22.51996% to NOT kobe in 6 attempts, oh boy, the new Decisive Strike! Yeah you'd have to use 2 perks to have a 77.48004% chance to kobe and all 3 survivors for the best % chance. However being able to safe yourself from the hook is probably the most powerful thing in the game. "Dang, I got hooked... hey guys just keep working on generators and I'll unhook my self when the killer leaves." "Okay, we'll keep working on generators." Yeah, it's RNG but your likely going to kobe around a 8/10 ratio so it would be rare to not kobe.
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@TheDarkLycan Why would you joke around like that I was about to pee my pants and sing "For the first time in forever" (Yes, it's still a thing in 2018)
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@Onehouse I'm going to post my idea here and hopefully this will be a possible solution to the hatch problem
Don't ONLY say things like "It's bad" "Won't work"
"Just no"... tell me why you think that.Introduction: Hatch
Currently the hatch is really frustrating for both survivors and killers alike as they lead to the games lasting too long. The Hatch was meant to be for the last survivor, their last ditch effort to survive! However, instead, it's a staring contest in which the killer has nothing else to do but wait or give up, same for the survivor side.Fun and Fair: Suggestion
When there's only ONE survivor remaining in the trial, the hatch may spawn and open. Simultaneously, the fog will begin to get very thick and will build up to help hide the survivor more better and the hatch. The survivor will have a two minute sacrifice timer below their portait icon and will decrease over time. As the timer decreases, the survivor will begin to get covered with a yellow substance, think of this like being exactly like the yellow spots in legacy skins.
This will build up on you overtime, this allows the killer to see you more clearly through the fog. If the timer expires or if the killer closes the hatch, the survivor will immediately be engulfed by the yellow substance and be sacrificed. The timer will pause if the survivor is in the killer's grasp, this will prevent the survivor from being sacrificed as the killer is carrying the survivor.
However the survivor has hope and the killer doesn't, according to lore so the survivor will have a edge. The killer can hear the hatch in a 8m range (was 16m) and the survivor will hear the hatch in a 16m (was 32m) range.
Rebuttal: Q's & A's
How will we be able to use the key if the hatch doesn't spawn when there's more than one survivor?
Like before the hatch will spawn depending on the amount of generators complete and survivors alive. However when it comes down to the final survivor, the hatch will sink into the ground and spawn somewhere else to prevent the killer from going straight to the hatch.
Will end game perks activate?
Yes, because this is technically the end game and would spice things up for both sides.
How will the killer chase the survivor due to the fog?
You don't have to chase the survivor, the Entity will do the job for you if the survivor timer expires. Remember, if the survivor timer has decreased enough, you'll be able to see the survivor due to the yellow substances.
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@IronWolf115 I always wonder why they can't just try these changes on the PTB, however I'm just happy that there's one person who is thinking like me. Developers, go for itIronWolf115 said:Yeah I mean that is why im a little annoyed about how balancing in this game is right now, if it was simply that they had to release patches into the live server without the PTB then I understand a bit more. But they HAVE the PTB so I dont know why they can't try some big LF buffs or Freddy buffs or Wraith buffs, because then at least if it did prove to be too powerful they can just adjust it without fear of it being in the live servers.
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@Th3Nightmare I seen a recent post about someone suggesting a breaker room and how you need to find a part to repair the broken breaker in the room. Additionally if the killer camps the breaker room, survivors can rig jury the exit gates which will take longer than fixing the breaker. After the a survivor rig jury the exit gates, (s)he can now open the exit gate normally.Th3Nightmare said:Yep, is better a secondary objetives, because more time of repair is a boring... is to hard holding M1 for repariing a gen XD
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@SaltyKiller It's mostly complex but at this point, I'm willing to accept anything that would solve the hatch problem. Additionally, if they could, they could put this in the survivor/killer tutorial to help the newcomers to understand the mechanic.SaltyKiller said:It's interesting but I think you're over-thinking it. Getting to the hatch and re-opening it should be simple. What your proposing is too complex for the average Survivor player to understand.
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@SaltyKiller Would you think my suggestion would make the end game completely different? I did a check list of all problems of the hatch.SaltyKiller said:They said in the Q&A that they want to change the entire end game now. They didn't specify how or when but they want to change it so Survivor's will stop staying behind and acting like #########.
One wonders if they even play their game because they just now noticed this...
-No standoff
-Fair and fun
-Adds a new mechanic to DbD
I just don't want them to re-add the first hatch patch change. It was more worse than the current hatch standoff because after the killer closed the hatch, the survivor would basically do nothing and waste around 20 minutes of your time basically doing nothing... Ugh
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@SaltyKiller If I remember correctly, they said something about making the hatch end game unique and different for the last survivor. I thought this suggestion would fix the staring contest because the killer can still close the hatch which would immediately sacrifice the survivor in my suggestion while being completely fair because the survivor can hear the hatch better than the killer.SaltyKiller said:Honestly? They fixed the problem with the first iteration of closing the hatch in the last PTB. But they changed it because of crybaby Survivors. The second iteration was worse but honestly? It was SOMETHING. You could at least close the damn thing and stop the whole "Bee-line to the hatch because my SWF buddy told me exactly where it was." Nonsense. At least in the second iteration you could get ahead of them, close it, and then they're done.
But noooooo.... We couldn't even have that. The scrublords need their absolutely 100% earned free hatch escape. So now we get to wait god knows how long for some kind of fix.
@Master The killer can close the hatch in my suggestion which would immediately sacrifice the survivor, no standoffMaster said:Definitely better than the current situation, but hatch standoff would still be a thing ( it would just be a 2 min standoff then)
16 / 32 meters are definitely too much though, that would even be whispers distance
The timer just prevents the survivor from doing nothing which was the only thing I disliked about the first hatch change. After the killer closes the hatch, the survivor would basically do nothing which would extend games to be longer than they should be.Nickenzie said:If the timer expires or if the killer closes the hatch, the survivor will immediately be engulfed by the yellow substance and be sacrificed.
@Master The 16 / 32 is just test numbers and something to help you get the understanding What do you think it should be?
Thank you two for your support
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@Abyssionknight I mentioned a suggestion about a different nerf for Self Care and all healing actions in "weekly Q&A". Basically the MOMENT you stop healing, you'll lose 25% of your total healing progress, and then you'll slowly regress after that.
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@Runiver Apparently it's that simple but certain people don't realize how straight forward it can be. It's a hex totem for crying out loud, I just don't understand why nerf something that can be counted before it can even have a chance to be activated. Ugh...Runiver said:Just break the totem.
(It's the killer's version of "Just break the pallet")
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@Judgement I was thinking more on the lines of having skill checks to simulate you struggling because it easier for console and PC players alike! However just make it were the skill checks aren't affected by debuffs *coff coff* madness, reduced success zones, Huntress Lullaby, and etc.Judgement said:You've all been there, yes?
You with PCs that aren't forged from legends, or with internet that isn't created by the gods themselves.
A mere framerate drop, a slight lag spike... just like that you're dead on hook.
Your spacebar jams. A random window pops up in front of your game. You unconsciously fail to tap the button fast enough. Your game freezes. Killer lag-switches.
You're out. Body disintegrated and soul devoured by the entity.It is extremely unhelpful that people with lower-tier PCs that only barely manage 30fps be at a disadvantage during the struggle phase of the sacrifice. Rapid-tapping the spacebar has an insane amount of potential problems tied behind it, especially in a game like this where the situation can be dire for your character and participation in the trial.
One single minor thing that happens to your PC or internet will remove you from the trial.Rather than forcing us to mash the key to stay alive, change it to a button press to die. BHVR were going to change Decisive Strike so that it can be activated on a button press rather than with a skill check, so the same should be done with Struggle.
Make it so that we can die from struggle at the press of a button instead of having to mash the key to stay alive.There's a number of benefits that could come with this change;
- Survivors with lower-tier PCs that can suffer framerate drops will not be killed because of it.
- Survivors with weaker internet that can cause lag spikes, or a host with a bad connection, (high ping) won't kill a Survivor anymore.
- Players with physical disabilities that can cause temporary harm or permanent injuries, or disabilities that impede physical capabilities, won't suffer having to mash a key. This includes disorders that include having brittle bones, muscular dystrophy or impediment, weakness, etc.
- No more keyboards have to suffer with the spacebar being mashed.
Quickfire counterarguments. These are just so that I can, in advance, counter the arguments that I know that the less desirable people of the community are going to make. I want proper debates and reasoning in this thread. No 'get good' or 'get a better PC/internet', as if life is that simple to get whatever you want on a whim.
"It's to simulate you struggling for your life."
Yes because my life can be ended instantly because the universe decides to stop working for a short moment."Use a macro."
The entire point of this post is the fact that we should not need to rely on an external software just for the sake of not having to press a key repeatedly to stay in the game. Macros should not, ever be something that is required just to play a game. Especially people with disabilities.
Being forced to use a macro shows an insane, massive flaw in game design. It's not those peoples' faults that the developers of the game didn't bother making something more friendly to disabled consumers."Get a better PC/internet."
Oh my dear god. You're a genius! Suddenly a couple thousand dollars has arrived in my bank account for me to build a PC of legends and the infrastructure in Australia has changed to United States levels! Thank you so much for your kind wisdom!"Stop playing the game."
Why should I have to stop playing a game that I enjoy playing because you don't care to have an actual argument besides defending that this game is pure, sacred, and without fault? This is a thing the developers need to look into and fix, not something that should force me to stop playing this game."Rebind struggle to mousewheel."
That is not my point! It doesn't matter whether I use the mousewheel or spam spacebar to struggle, struggling still requires me to spam the button assigned to it, and it can still kill me when the game lags, my PC frame drops, or the Killer lag-switches.
The fact that it's the spacebar that has to be spammed is NOT the point of this post - it's the point that a button needs to be spammed to begin with, and that problems external to the game itself can make your efforts worth nothing.Thank you for your time and attention.
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I'll just flag you, let the mods handle you, and won't argue with you! You have lost my respect.Might_Oakk said:So basically you're a garbage player who needs NOED to play...
You could just not run it and play at a rank for low skill players...
I'm usually r1 within 3 days of reset and have never needed NOED, just sayin gitgud
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@Peanits You made me laugh so hard when you said that lmao! Next time when I have a problem with my Xbox and need to call support, I'm going to say "Yo what's up bro! Just wondering if you dudes can help a brother out with his xbox one!"Peanits said:"Hey what's up fam, how that update coming along?"
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@ArcaneMantis It really depends, like if one survivor DC'd instantly and you camped someone. I would consider that being toxic because it's a 3v1 with 5 generators, no reason to camp, it's unnecessary and rather unsportsmanlike. Overall it's really your intentions, if you are trying to be toxic then your being toxic and vice versa.
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@Fizz I was playing as Nurse and the exit gates were open, I had to camp the hooked survivor because I knew with my luck that someone with borrowed time would save him, so I did. Eventually the survivors snowball into the hook and pick off 1 by 1 until I had multiple kills. Since I'm on Xbox one, I got hate mail. Just keep in mind that it was their decision to feed themselves to you and don't worry about what they have to say.
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@Visionmaker I wasn't including the safety seconds with my suggestion. I'm talking about in general, the MOMENT you stop ANY healing action, you'll instantly lose 25% of your progress and then the rest of your progress will be regressed by 2% every second.Why not? Not that I don't like your suggestion, I am just curious as to why there needs to be any more of a compromise (beyond a few seconds leeway) to begin with.
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@MineAntoiya Couldn't have said it betterMineAntoiya said:Sadly a lot of DBD players lack normal Discussion Etticate. Currently, NOED I think is fine. There's nothing wrong with something that wastes survivors time even more, as they can pretty much get i back by looping which is easy as hell to do anyway. Usually I'm too lazy and when I'm hit with it I accept my fate and chill. I also enjoy seeing killers with 1 shot potential who have it because it's a hilarious surprise.
In the words of Bricky: Play how you want, and don't let any made up honour code get in the way of how you play!
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@White_Owl Bravo on the detail and effort on these changes! I really liked most of your ideas, well thought out and with great reasoning! However I did had a thought, when Wraith is cloaked, he should be able to go through everything he decides to walk through (kinda like the nurse but without the blink or speed). The Wraith shouldn't have a glimmer on him, he should be completely invisible to allow him to sneak up on survivors.White_Owl said:I keep seeing people suggesting that he can move through wall while cloaked or during decloak and I admit that would be really fun, but I can't keep my hopes up about a big change like this, so I'd try to propose some, more feasible, changes.
Map Presence
The Wraith lacks map presence compared to other killers, but differently than other killers with low presence, his power doesn't have a way to slow down or snowball the game, so I think increasing his map presence would help him.
I can think of two changes that would improve this aspect:Increase his speed while cloaked
Currently his cloaking speed is only 10% faster than normal, but his Windstorm addons prove that his chicken legs are capable of more. I won't say to make him on par with the Hillbilly since the Wraith would still retain his full mobility, but a sort of compromise could work. I won't give numbers because I have no idea how strong they would turn out, considering this could be useful in chases too.Make the shimmering not visible from a set distance
How many times it happened that I saw his shimmer from a very long distance and could keep an eye on him to know when he was gonna come in my direction... some maps are especially bad for this reason, like Rotten Fields and Autohaven Wreckers.
While the use of cover is what distinguish a good Wraith from a bad one (not only that, but still...), the situation described is beyond the player control since you can't know a faraway survivors can you see you clearly. Making the shimmer visible in a 20 meters radius would help his ambushes, but also his map presence.
Chase
He is an ambush killer. This means that after surprising a survivor, he is mostly an M1 killer, whose height and ability allow less mindgames compared to other killers (think for example of the Pig and her crouching and dashes). On the contrary, the use of his power makes pallets and windows in many cases stronger unless using the Windtorm addons. But even then, I think we all agree killers shouldn't rely on their strongest addons for basic functions like mindgames.
So, the changes I'll propose aim to make him fearsome during chases:Make him immune to pallet stuns while cloaked (but not during cloaking/decloaking)
While cloaked he walks the Spirit World and to interact with objects he has to partially leave it: lore wise, he shouldn't be able to interact with pallets and viceversa until his whole body in the Spirit World.
Gameplay wise, he already has a weakness to lighburns (even stronger than the Nurse's, check the Lightburn page on the wiki for details) that force him to decloak. Having pallets do the same thing is just redundant. Besides, since he can't attack while cloaked, pallets against a cloaked Wraith are 120% safe, which is kinda absurd. Making him immune while fully cloaked would open a lot of mindgame possibilities, with a way for good Wraiths to make survivors waste pallets for nothing.Allow him to grab survivors while cloaked
Currently the Wraith can grab survivors from lockers, so there's no lore reason as to why he shouldn't be able to grab a vaulting survivor or one too immersed in his gen repairs to look around for danger. This would give him a way to be dangerous at any time, especially when injured (since vault grabs work only on injured survivors), and could make All Seeing addons a bit more inviting (if you think about it, they really shine when finding a survivor in a locker, so when they allow for a grab)Make him vault faster while cloaked
When followed by a cloacked Wraith, vaulting a safe window is the most safe way to make him loose his momentum. This change would help him a bit. This one is optional because (thanks to RNG) I still have to try Bamboozle on him so I still don't know if the perk is already enough.
So that's it. With these changes I think the Wraith could be in a way better spot and be funnier to play. Thoughts?
ps thank you forums auto save function... I almost lost this
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@Visionmaker I do agree with the Self Care nerf but I don't think it should remove all of your progress. I think it should be a instant % amount removed then it regress after that instant % removal. Example: Your at 85% progress but let's say you had to stop for a few seconds because of Nurse's Calling. You'd lose 25% instantly and then it will regress by 2% every second either until your % progress is at 0 or you start healing again. I think this should be applied to every type of healing action instead of just the Self Care action.Visionmaker said:+1 I highly doubt anyone would take self care off despite the proposed nerf.I can get behind keeping the progress for a few seconds because of the teammate issue Jack brought up, but it should fall to zero quickly thus after. -
Couldn't agree more ^^^SoulKey said:Having to hide for 1 minute after each unhook is extremely harsh, seems way killer sided to me. You can't compare it to BBQ which is a 4 seconds thing. Don't make SoloQ even more harder for survivors. Plus sometimes you take a hit for unhooked survivor to give him a chance or take the aggro, This is a legit play and should not be punished this way.
Plus you can already know if killer has make your choice without the exposed notification, just by hearing your scream after the unhook. For all i know, swf will only benefit from it since they will probably tell each other anyway.
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@Might_Oakk Wow... that's just rude. I will just give you the honest version of what I'm trying to tell you. NOED is currently is fine, you just need to destroy 5 totems before the last generator is completed. If you couldn't do that because you didn't have enough time due to your team's gen rushing or you didn't search hard enough, it's nothing but your own fault. It's really that simple! It's why I run Blood Warden or remember me and NOED because survivors won't have enough time to destroy all totems if they gen rush. It's a win win for killers because they get punished for gen rushing or slow the game down to destroy totems.Might_Oakk said:I see your dumb asf...
Fix the killers. Don't make broken perks to try boost killers. Derp.
Here's my question for you, do you also want to nerf ruin because every killer INCLUDING nurse runs it? You see it's not only because the killers are weak that they use NOED, far from it! It's because the game is just too fast, think about it, if games lasted for 15 minutes or more, you wouldn't see NOED or ruin as often because the game allows killers to do their job. Even Nurse struggles sometimes with this gen rushing meta which is kinda sad since she is the top tier killer, yet should we buff her with 3 blinks due to a flawed game design? No.
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@Beaburd Yes, that would be a excellent idea to rework Sprint Burst! Instead of the 2 second passive Sprint Burst you normally get, you'll receive a 5 second Sprint Burst! Great thinking but there's one problem, developers aren't taking that direction but overall I think the developers nerfed version of Sprint Burst and other exhaustion perks is okay! Overall great idea!Beaburd said:Pretty simple suggestion:
Why not have Sprint Burst activate when hit, instead of when survivors start running for the first time?The biggest reason Sprint Burst is so powerful relative to other exhaustion perks is because it lets survivors get out of bad situations for free without a prior condition and nullifies any efforts a killer put in to ambush the survivor originally. This would attach a condition to activate Sprint Burst, and put it on par with other exhaustion perks as-is.
Something to keep in mind, however, is that this new Sprint Burst would have to be able to stack with the on-hit 2 second sprint burst survivors already get passively. If you let them stack though, there wouldn't be any issues.
This would also change Sprint Burst's identity from a general "get out of jail free" card to a legitimate opportunity to lose the killer once per chase when hit. After all, Sprint Burst + the passive on-hit sprint burst + the killer wiping his blade would grant the survivor an incredible amount of distance to try and lose the killer with.
See you in the fog! -
@Might_Oakk I think you miss understood what I meant by saying "Especially if your playing a killer that is dependent on NOED." Basically if your playing Wraith which is a LOW tier killer. High ranked survivors will immediately know "Hey Wraith is a very weak killer and will 99% of the time have NOED, I should probably cleanse every totem." Same goes for Freddy and other weak killer's because they NEED NOED to be viable without great add-ons. Other high tier killers like Nurse won't need NOED because they are already strong, but it's a good supprise if they do use NOED! Overall most killers don't need NOED because they can hold their own but weaker killer do need it to give them a boost in power. If you ever watch high ranked survivor gameplay going against wraith or Freddy, you'll see the survivor mention "Yeah, he probably has NOED." Why? For the reason I stated above. Hopefully I helped you understand my reasoning betterNickenzie said:
High ranked survivors know to cleanse totems, especially if your playing a killer that is dependent on NOED.
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@Might_Oakk I hear you but as a reminder that NOED has a counter, destroy all 5 totems before the exit gates. Ranks 20-10 you'll usually have at least a totem standing most of the times but any rank below that, NOED probably won't activate because all of your totems will be destroyed. High ranked survivors know to cleanse totems, especially if your playing a killer that is dependent on NOED. Overall I think your upset because getting NOED isn't fun when your the victim.Might_Oakk said:I think the game really needs to get away from these crutch perks. NOED is literally the definition of boosted. You go fast, 1 hit, and don't get punished for missing.
Loads of killers who aren't very good get boosted to a rank higher then they should be from it. Everytime a killer is getting shat on you know 9/10 times hes gonna have NOED.
It will still be a very strong perk.
I was thinking somewhere on the lines of make the perk a regular perk but instead you go into a 25 second bleed out timer while keeping everything else the same.
See you in the fog!
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@Wolf74 I totally agree for your first point, the perk should light up like Devour Hope when your far enough away from the hooked survivor.Wolf74 said:- Please give that perk an indicator if you are far enough to trigger it (just like Devour Hope).
- Remove the exposed indicator, so that the attack comes by surprise.
However I strongly disagree with your second point of it hiding the exposed status effect for the survivors, mainly for 2 reasons, it's not SWF and solo survivor friendly. Next it's will ruin the counter play for the survivors side, not unhooking the survivor is not a effective counter because you'd lose too many survivors. Yeah you could argue face camping is basically the same thing but again there's counter play, do generators. If there was a thing in the game that didn't have counter play, it would be considered OP. Decisive Strike is a great example because the only counter play is dribbling but it's very time consuming and you won't always be close to a hook so it's counter play is unreliable.
See you in the fog
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@cerealsauce I totally agree with your Self Care suggestion, bravo! It's like you read my mind lolcerealsauce said:3) Self care, I think this is a bit too strong of a nerf, maybe make the regression of the heal bar more gradual or even a base percent of total healing get undone, like 20/15/10 percent of healing bar is undone every time you cancel a self care,
4) deja vu, calm spirit, Ace in the hole, sole survivor, dark sense, bitter murmur, tinkerer, predator,whispers, sloppy butcher, and save the best for last, these I like and cant wait to see them added in the mid season patch.
Can't wait to see the other perk changes, like wow! They blown us through the roof with these changes! -
@Mister_xD They said "We're not looking into No Mither currently", notice how they said "Currently" because there's always a possibility that they will take a look at No Mother in the futureMister_xD said:actually, the devs already confirmed they wont change that perk, since it's working as intended, which means a hard mode for survivors.
I was thinking that maybe you start in the healthy state but you can't heal back to the injured state.
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Please make this a perk in DbD!
