Suggestion for changing some Perk values

DocOctober

This is a big list of many Survivor and Killer Perks and how I would change their numbers, based on more than 1.8k hours of experience on both sides of the Campfire.

Originally (back in 2016), most Perks had very low values, making their effects barely noticeably and many Perks retained those low values. Currently, we seem to move to Perks with much greater effects that are also much more noticeable. That is the philosophy I applied in all suggestions:

Survivor Perks

• Alert, Plunderer's Instinct, Spine Chill: buff the ranges to 24/32/40 metres, the base ranges are too low.
• Boil Over: buff the ranges to 16/20/24 metres, for the current numbers, it's rare that the Killer needs the aura-reading of Hooks in the first places.
• Bond/Premonition: buff the ranges to 20/28/36.
• Botany Knowledge: buff the percentages by 10 %.
• Calm Spirit: with the upcoming buff, reduce the percentages to 50/75/100 %, especially in comparison to my suggestion for Spies From The Shadows.
• Hope: reduce the numbers to 3/4/5 % and remove the cool-down timer.
• Leader/Streetwise/Prove Thyself/Vigil: give them a lingering effect of a couple of seconds.
• No Mither: make the Survivor start off as healthy, then apply the No Mither effect upon the first hit, has no effect on Thanatophobia
• Open Handed: buff the numbers to 8/10/12 metres.
• Resilience: buff the numbers to 5/10/15 %.
• Small Game: make it light up the Aura of the tracked object for 1 second. Often times, it's not clear where exactly the object is located if it's in an area with a lot of line of sight blocking props. Alternative suggestion: make it have a metal detector effect, with a beeping noise that gets gradually louder the closer you are to the object
• Spine Chill: buff the repair/heal/sabotage percentage to 3/6/9 %.
• Technician: buff the reduced hearing ranges to 4/8/12 metres and add a new modifier for when repairing it with other Survivors and leave those at the current 0/4/8 metres, change the explosion prevention chance to 40/50/60 %.
• Up The Ante: buff the numbers to 2/3/4 %.
• Windows Of Opportunity: remove the cool-down or reduce it to the same values as Quick & Quiet.

Killer Perks

• Bamboozle: buff the numbers by 4 seconds to block down long loops (Badham School building and Lampkin Lane houses).
• Beast Of Prey: remove the cool-down, there's no good reason for having one.
• Blood Warden: QoL: add an on-icon timer
• Brutal Strength: buff the numbers by 5 % to re-instate its former speed.
• Deerstalker: buff the ranges to 20/28/36.
• Distressing: QoL: change it from percentages to numbers (6/7/8 metres), makes it easier in usability and has the same effect on all Killers, no matter their default Terror Radius.
• Fire Up: buff the numbers by 6 %, so that the maximum is 16/18/20% on 4 Tokens.
• Insidious: reduce the numbers to 2/1/0 seconds, to counteract the TR now fading away and effectively making it take longer for the Perk to reach its full effect.
• Iron Grasp: buff the numbers to 5/10/15 %.
• Make Your Choice: make the icon light up when out of the specified range, like Devour Hope
• Monstrous Shrine: make the Perk affect all Hooks with the current values and buff them for the basement hooks.
• No One Outruns Death (formerly NOED): You are animated by an unseen force when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping. Once at least one Exit Gates are powered, cool-downs on successful and missed attacks are decreased by 10/15/20 % and your movement speed is increased by 6/9/12 %.
• Pop Goes The Weasel: increase the timer to 60 seconds.
• Spies From The Shadows: increase the values to 50/75/100 % and 24/32/40 metres, with how lethargic crows are these days, that shouldn't be too severe a buff.
• Stridor: increase the values to 25/50/75 % and 0/25/50%.
• Surveillance: Remove the timer. It's nigh impossible to damage 3 gens within 16 seconds and there's not really a good reason for it to have one in the first place, it's the weakest Killer Perk, the Killer's Déjà Vu.
• Territorial Imperative: Remove the cool-down timer and increase the range to 40 metres as a trade-off.
• Thanatophobia: make it take into account dead Survivors.
• Unrelenting: buff the numbers by 10 %.

EDIT: Changed the numbers on Up The Ante, added alternative suggestion for Small Game and changed No Mither.
EDIT2: Changed the ranges of Bond and Premonition, to not make the max tier larger, but buffing the lower tiers.
EDIT3: Added Deerstalker.
EDIT4: Added NOED
EDIT5: Added Blood Warden

Volfawott

These all sound really nice but making no mither start you off in the healthy state would ruin it synergy with resilience, dead head and this isn't happening as to activate them you would have to be injured so you would go out of your way to go find the killer just to get hit.
The likelihood is that that's going to lead to a hook which is leading you one step closer to death.

If you want a buff it having it not apply thanatophobia unless you all downed hooked or with your buff to it dead also taking away the annoying injured music would be another good thing.

Visionmaker

I think Small Game might be too effective with aura reading. Maybe make it a hot and cold game, like it being louder or quieter depending on how far away a detected totem/killer belonging it is?

I don't think Iron Grasp needs a buff. I think it's already incredibly difficult to wiggle off without 2-3 bodyblocks with an IG killer, unless they get super greedy.

I don't think Pop Goes The Weasel should have a higher duration, since it's supposed to pressure the killer to leave the hook. I'd instead buff Surveillance to highlight gens at 75 or higher percent, so it can pair with PGTW and the new Tinkerer.

Luigifan64

Aari_Piggy66 said:

These all sound really nice but making no mither start you off in the healthy state would ruin it synergy with resilience, dead head and this isn't happening as to activate them you would have to be injured so you would go out of your way to go find the killer just to get hit.
The likelihood is that that's going to lead to a hook which is leading you one step closer to death.

If you want a buff it having it not apply thanatophobia unless you all downed hooked or with your buff to it dead also taking away the annoying injured music would be another good thing.

It wouldn’t ruin the synergy, it’d still be there, you’d just have to get hit; which isn’t all that difficult. Escaping the killer isn’t all that difficult, and I wouldn’t mind not having Resiliance for the first couple minutes of gameplay if it means the killer doesn’t know that I have No Mither.

NMCKE

DocOctober said:

• Up The Ante: buff the numbers to 2/4/6 %.
  

@DocOctober I'm assuming everything you posted before is exactly the same as before because you haven't changed how OP your version of Up The Ante would be. I'll repeat myself from the other post

Great job on the changes, well done! However Up The Ante will become the new Decisive Strike with those numbers, I'll explain with math. So your version of Up The Ante with 3 tokens will give every survivor including yourself a 18% chance to all RNG actions, not bad but let's look at specifically the "Attempt escape" action when your on the hook. It's a 4% currently on 2.0, so your new kobe % will be 22%, holy moly! 100%-22%=78% to not kobe for one attempt, now let's cube that number, 78%^3=47.4552% to NOT kobe in 3 attempts. Let's use slippery meat to spice it up  78%^6=22.51996% to NOT kobe in 6 attempts, oh boy, the new Decisive Strike! Yeah you'd have to use 2 perks to have a 77.48004% chance to kobe and all 3 survivors for the best % chance. However being able to safe yourself from the hook is probably the most powerful thing in the game. "Dang, I got hooked... hey guys just keep working on generators and I'll unhook my self when the killer leaves." "Okay, we'll keep working on generators." Yeah, it's RNG but your likely going to kobe around a 8/10 ratio so it would be rare to not kobe.

Visionmaker

Nickenzie said:

Let's use slippery meat to spice it up  78%^6=22.51996% to NOT kobe in 6 attempts, oh boy, the new Decisive Strike! Yeah you'd have to use 2 perks to have a 77.48004% chance to kobe and all 3 survivors for the best % chance.

That's quite an exaggeration. It doesn't effectively give you an extra life like DS does, and you still have a minute maximum to Attempt Escape. If you actually want to use the third attempt, you have to begin it within a few seconds of being hooked.

Coupled with the risk of the killer being too close and the individual being the only target without anyone else to serve as a shield or healer, you're essentially giving yourself a huge chance of suicide.

It is innately countered by camping, tunneling, and by the nature of hooks. Alongside the fact that the act of kobe-ing leaves you incredibly vulnerable for a few seconds.

I think it will be powerful, but a risky niche at its very best, even when discounting complete failure to unhook one's self.

The only reason why kobe works at all right now is because it's so rare that killers don't bother with it, and some killers even let people go because it's so absurd.

DocOctober

Nickenzie said:

DocOctober said:

• Up The Ante: buff the numbers to 2/4/6 %.
  

@DocOctober I'm assuming everything you posted before is exactly the same as before because you haven't changed how OP your version of Up The Ante would be. I'll repeat myself from the other post

Great job on the changes, well done! However Up The Ante will become the new Decisive Strike with those numbers, I'll explain with math. So your version of Up The Ante with 3 tokens will give every survivor including yourself a 18% chance to all RNG actions, not bad but let's look at specifically the "Attempt escape" action when your on the hook. It's a 4% currently on 2.0, so your new kobe % will be 22%, holy moly! 100%-22%=78% to not kobe for one attempt, now let's cube that number, 78%^3=47.4552% to NOT kobe in 3 attempts. Let's use slippery meat to spice it up  78%^6=22.51996% to NOT kobe in 6 attempts, oh boy, the new Decisive Strike! Yeah you'd have to use 2 perks to have a 77.48004% chance to kobe and all 3 survivors for the best % chance. However being able to safe yourself from the hook is probably the most powerful thing in the game. "Dang, I got hooked... hey guys just keep working on generators and I'll unhook my self when the killer leaves." "Okay, we'll keep working on generators." Yeah, it's RNG but your likely going to kobe around a 8/10 ratio so it would be rare to not kobe.

Yes, it's the same thread, this one being the "copy" for the devs in the Balance Feedback.

NMCKE

Visionmaker said:

That's quite an exaggeration. It doesn't effectively give you an extra life like DS does, and you still have a minute maximum to Attempt Escape. If you actually want to use the third attempt, you have to begin it within a few seconds of being hooked. 

Coupled with the risk of the killer being too close and the individual being the only target without anyone else to serve as a shield or healer, you're essentially giving yourself a huge chance of suicide.

It is innately countered by camping, tunneling, and by the nature of hooks. Alongside the fact that the act of kobe-ing leaves you incredibly vulnerable for a few seconds.

I think it will be powerful, but a risky niche at its very best, even when discounting complete failure to unhook one's self.

The only reason why kobe works at all right now is because it's so rare that killers don't bother with it, and some killers even let people go because it's so absurd.

@Visionmaker I mean it kinda is DS technically because it gives you a get out of jail card if you do kobe. On the live build, I used the Up The Ante + Slippery meat combo because I was tired of using meta perks. I basically kobe-ed every game (the RNG lords loved me) and it feels so powerful, one time the exit gate was open and the killer was chasing the three survivors out. Before they escaped, I kobe-ed and dead hard past the killer. Even if the killer camps, the killer would be wasting two minutes of his time which is time for my teammates to do generators. Additionally let me correct you, I wouldn't have three attempts, you would have six attempts (Slippery meat) which I think you seen my math that it gives you 77.48004% to kobe (with @DocOctober version), you could probably do it in 5 or 4 attempts. However this is where you made a great point, it's RNG, if I don't kobe, I basically threw the game for my team but it's more fun to kobe with my amazing odds of success.

Soren

Nice changes! I don't really think Bond needs a buff (it's IMHO the best survivor perk ever), I would like Distressing to change terror radius to a flat 40m regardless of the killer, that would make "terror radius builds" more viable on Myers and Hag, for example. It will also be neat on Freddy - you don't hear the terror radius, you don't see him, yet you have to deal with Coulrophobia and such.

Visionmaker

@Nickenzie said:
I mean it kinda is DS technically because it gives you a get out of jail card if you do kobe. On the live build, I used the Up The Ante + Slippery meat combo because I was tired of using meta perks. I basically kobe-ed every game (the RNG lords loved me) and it feels so powerful, one time the exit gate was open and the killer was chasing the three survivors out. Before they escaped, I kobe-ed and dead hard past the killer. Even if the killer camps, the killer would be wasting two minutes of his time which is time for my teammates to do generators. Additionally let me correct you, I wouldn't have three attempts, you would have six attempts (Slippery meat) which I think you seen my math that it gives you 77.48004% to kobe (with @DocOctober version), you could probably do it in 5 or 4 attempts. However this is where you made a great point, it's RNG, if I don't kobe, I basically threw the game for my team but it's more fun to kobe with my amazing odds of success.

It's not though. You sacrifice your entire first stage for a chance to get away without assistance. DS prevents you from lowering your hook stages period, basically giving you an extra life.

I don't doubt that the stars can align and it will be powerful. I have had times where I successfully kobe'd into a hatch. But there are also times when I had three luck offerings and Slippery Meat and I failed to kobe. I've also had plenty of times when I kobe'd and the killer came back and killed me in less than 20 seconds, or the killer is just standing there to catch me.

Also, you're incorrect: the killer doesn't have to camp you for 2 minutes. The killer only needs to camp you for 1 minute. First hook stage is when you are allowed to Attempt Escape and it only lasts 1 minute, not 2.

The problem is not only whether you fail, the problem is when you succeed and the killer downs you again. Realistically, smart players won't attempt Kobes until 15-30 seconds pass for killers to leave or chase someone else, at which point you're already halfway done with 1st stage.

NMCKE

Visionmaker said:

It's not though. You sacrifice your entire first stage for a chance to get away without assistance. DS prevents you from lowering your hook stages period, basically giving you an extra life.

@Visionmaker Yeah, what you said is all true and with great reasoning! However this where we enter a grey area, when a survivor is on the hook, they aren't guaranteed another chance to get off. DS delays you from entering X phase of sacrifice but it doesn't exactly save you from the hook. Once your on the hook, you'll need to hope that your teammates will save you. At most Decisive Strike grantees you at least one "get out of jail free" card while the hook is completely random with you getting another chance, you may get one hooked, two hooked, or three hooked. Additionally, Decisive Strike has a "hard counter" which is called dribbling but this requires you to be downed near a hook. On the other hand, the kobe combo can save you while your on the hook, your talking about making something that's supposed to be unpredictable and making it predictable. There has been multiple situations where the killer left me to chase out the remaining survivors through the exit gate.

Visionmaker said:

DS prevents you from lowering your hook stages period, basically giving you an extra life.

Again, it doesn't matter if DS resets your hook stages or prevents you from moving to the next stage. It will be meaningless I'd you get one hooked after using it and DS can't save you then. The point I'm trying to make is the hook is something you can't really escape from and DS can't help you with escaping. It basically delays the process from you moving on to the next stage of sacrifice.

Visionmaker said:

Even if the killer camps, the killer would be wasting two minutes of his time which is time for my teammates to do generators.

Also, you're incorrect: the killer doesn't have to camp you for 2 minutes. The killer only needs to camp you for 1 minute. First hook stage is when you are allowed to Attempt Escape and it only lasts 1 minute, not 2.

I meant to say two minutes because most killers won't be so paranoid about someone kobe-ing, it's a 4%. If the killer is going to camp you, 9/10 times they will camp you through the first and second stage of sacrifice which is two minutes, not just the first. Actually I never seen a killer camp a survivor for the first phase of sacrifice because again it's a 4%, mostly every killer won't worry about a 4% unless they seen 2-4 salty lips on the offering screen.

@Visionmaker You have a point with saying the kobe combo is inconsistent. It's RNG, the killer may camp you, and you may not be able to escape. However kobe-ing is just so fun!