Munqaxus
Munqaxus
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914917#Comment_2914917
A-C isn't viable. At most you could say A-mid B is viable, but C isn't viable.
C tier Killers are usually situational at best.
Otz's test proved the "meaner"(smarter) side wins, not that every Killer is viable.
I disagree with "how good the player is". It's plain out wrong. At some point, you won't get better at the game with most Killers, you'll only be able to play smarter, which not even that will save you sometimes, not against smart Survivors anyway.
Nurse is not broken, her Add-ons are. Her base-kit is fine, the winner comes down to who plays smarter
You know something, there really isn't an easily findable solid definition of the current Tier list that everyone uses, LOL. Not even on Tiermaker.com.
So everyone is making these stupid Tier lists for games and no one actually knows what each tier means. I tried some google-fu and didn't see a single definition for what each tier means. Even the Wiki doesn't have a definition for each tier. (I didn't go past 2 pages but I find that absolutely amazing that every keeps making these Tier lists and there doesn't seem to be an explanation for what each tier means).
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
His design inherently sets solos and SWFs even further apart than normal against him because the box is an additional objective that solo survivors can’t coordinate as well. I’m hoping that when they make the general solo q changes (eg. the portrait status icons they teased) it might help out a bit with that.
Having said that, I think he’s mostly fine, but there are a couple changes I would make to him.
- Survivors cannot be passively attacked by chains while attempting to solve the box, unless Pinhead summons it himself. Although there is a way to play around this, it’s not intuitive at all and causes a lot of frustration if you don’t know about it, and quite frankly there’s no reason for it to be this way.
- In return, Pinhead can walk through his own chains without breaking them.
This is exactly why Pinhead is an issue. It's not that he's overpowered, it's that he increases the divide between Solo and SWF. People without voice comms are screwed against him.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914882#Comment_2914882
Every Killer is playable, most aren't viable. Just because the SBMM system pairs weak Killers like Trapper with weak Survivors, even if the Trapper player is good at the game, doesn't make Trapper viable.
Not every Killer had to be Nurse/Blight levels, but every Killer should be A tier, which most aren't
If you are using the Tier system, Tiers A - C are all viable tiers. S Tier is the tier that gets nerfs and the D Tier is the tier that gets buffs. If you look at the average tier rating of killers from these forums, almost all killers fall within Tiers A - C, which means forum users sees a large majority of killers as viable.
And I know forum users hate it when I bring this up, but you have people like Otz, that has a youtube video in which he plays every single killer and gives the survivors a 30 second head start and doesn't use any perks and still gets 4ks. We know he plays at the highest MMR and he's able to beat high MMR survivors with Trapper, Trickster, Clown and all the other killers people say aren't viable.
If he can beat high-MMR survivors without perks and with a 30 second head start, then people can definitely use those killers at high MMR with perks, addons and a 30 second head start.
The problem people need to realize is it's not how good the killer is, it's how good the player is. Not everyone is a top MMR player, in fact, only about 2.5% of people are top MMR players.
On top of that, Nurse is just flat broken, everyone knows that. You can't judge other killers on a killer as broken as Nurse.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914805#Comment_2914805
No one said anything about losing being bad, what I'm saying is that over 90% of the Killer roster is unviable
Unviable means 90% of the roster is unplayable which is not true. The entire roster is playable and can get plenty of 4ks because of the MMR system.
No matter what you do to Demogorgon, you can never get Demogorgon to the Nurses level of play without losing Demogorgons essence, it's not doable. And who would you play against if all the Killers are as broken as Nurse and Blight. Between 68% to 95% of players cannot play against Killers that broken.
You would literally never find a match if all the killers where that stupidly overpowered.
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@CrimsonPotato said:
I have no clue why bodyblocking was re-allowed. I just got paired with a quad SWF group. I had one knocked in a corner. I pick them up and can't move because I'm surrounded by three other people. I hit each one once before they left but I couldn't hook anyone(including the person I had knocked). There's no way in hell that should be possible/allowed. A good way to look at it is: Is there a good reason that it SHOULD be allowed...
5 posts, that's explains this post perfectly.
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@AntiJelly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914017#Comment_2914017
How so are they underpowered? In what way?
Because flashlight saves are a massive-massive waste of time in almost every instance.
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@GuyFawx said:
Buffy would be cool but we also better get a Joss Whedon survivor
Joss Whedon could have the perk "Perfectionist" and whenever he works a gen with another survivor and that survivor messes up, then Joss Whedon will yell at that survivor and make him feel bad. 25 years later, that survivor will get prissy and go on camera telling everyone how horrible it was to get rich and famous under Joss Whedon!
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@AntiJelly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912702#Comment_2912702
Saying flashlights aren't powerful is blatantly wrong, and you saying "9/10 times they lead to a slug fest" just sounds like you strawmanning flashlight users as bad survivors. Balance should not be made around the average, and what you're talking about is the average. On top of this, the only thing I think is a huge problem with flashlights is how absurdly long you can make them last, along with how useless all the other add-ons are for them besides duration. My aim with these changes I presented is to make flashlights more interesting and powerful in the moments that they are used, but also making them not able to be used for absurdly long amounts of time.
He's right, flashlights are massively underpowered. I can't believe you have even have suggested that they need a nerf.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904446#Comment_2904446
I've played DBD on and off since 2017. I stopped playing it for most of 2020-21 and picked it back up a couple of months ago for the ring as she seemed fun. If you want my hours then here.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OVJXAMCW2QSY/image.png
So yes, I am quite experienced and played both killer and survivor at high end MMR and actually played dbd on the day they buffed him and noticed within a few hours how strong he is. There is no way to loop him due to the speed and distance of his swing. Even if lets say you do everything perfect, and you actually beat him around a tile and manage to drop it, he still instantly breaks it with his chainsaw and because there is no penalty, within no time can use it again. You are either going to: A go down very quickly due to his ability to instant down or B drop the pallet early and burn through your limited recourses very quickly.
And I do agree about Tier list, they are mostly subjective. My point was a little unclear. I just think he is already quite strong and adding counterplay to him would not cripple him but balance him.
I made a post in a reply to somebody else on this discussion about a few posts above where I linked a video showing how much distance and how fast his swing it actually is. This is not meant to be condescending but could you please watch the video before replying and explain to me why his swing needs to be that far and that fast with the ability to instant down.
As a kid, I was making a building with MMR in our playroom. I didn't have enough MMR. So I asked my younger brother Robert if I could borrow some of his MMR. He said, 'Okay, but you have to give the MMR back when you're done.' I used all of my MMR, then all of his MMR, and when I was done I had a great MMR, which I then glued together. Robert never did get his MMR back.
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@ProfSinful said:
Flashlights aren't even remotely powerful. 9/10 times they lead to a slug fest and easy wins because altruism is the 5th killer perk, so to nerf an already weak item would be hilarious. Especially considering medkits are far more problematic than a flashlight will ever be
Once survivors legs and arms have been removed, only then will Killer-mains be satisfied.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
It already is base-kit, it's called knowing Survivor spawns
It's a 50/50 guess on the 2 gens most far away from the killers spawn.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2913664#Comment_2913664
I'm hoping so all these nerf dead hard topics will stop😀
Killers will just be asking for nerfs on the next survivor perk they don't like, so it won't stop the nerf topics.
However, I think both survivors and killers want an update on what's happening from the developers on Dead Hard.
Tell us something BHVR, if it's being actively looked at or if it's on the back-burner or if it's even a concern.
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@deckyr said:
i just tried to get adept sadako and got lobby after lobby of survivors bringing the strongest possible perks, playing as hard as they possibly could, and being nasty in the chat afterwards.
so i switched, equipped a bunch of strong perks including devour hope, stomped the hell out of the lobby i was in, and noone said anything to me
i don't feel good before doing that, and i don't feel good after doing it. i'm just not having fun no matter which way around i play. playing casually is impossible, and playing sweaty isn't fun it's just miserable even when i win.
i just really want something to be done about the strong perks on both sides. remove all the second health state perks from survivors, remove all the instadown perks from killers, and let's just play the video game normally again, yeah?
I really am beginning to believe that everyone on this forum needs to seriously relearn how to play games. It seems like everyone has forgotten that you play games for fun, not some fake reward, such as raising your MMR, getting red ranks or getting adept achievements.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2913507#Comment_2913507
2k is a draw though, if a DC is null then you only got 2kills that's still a draw, you need 3kills to be a win.
Not that I care for the W in a game with DCs I was just curious and if a DC is null and the games treats it all as a 1v1 then 2kills, 1escape and 1DC is a draw
The MMR system is setup to award you points for each individual kill and to take away points for each individual escape.
Say a kill is 100 points and an escape is -100 points.
If you have 2 kills, 1 escape and 1 DC/Hatch Escape, then you would gain 200 points for 2 kills, -100 points for 1 escape and no points for a DC. Adding it all together, you gain 100 points, hence a win.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912420#Comment_2912420
So let's say I get 1DC, 2kills and 1escape this would balance out as a draw due to the DC being void?
But if I was to get a 1DC and 3kills it's a win in the killers eyes
2ks and 1e would be a win for the killer. You don't count "nulls" as either a win or a loss.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912181#Comment_2912181
Doesn't work well. Some killers are insanely fast at moving across the map. Or it's Huntress with a ranged hatchet. Killer still knows your location and you have to get off the gen and hide from the patrol.
Distortion and Boon: Shadow Step.
And yes, I agree with you. Survivors should have better anti-aura perks.
With fast killers such as Blight, Nurse, Billy, etc, you don't have enough time to hide, before they can physically see you.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Looks like a pirate skin, too bad Twins will continue to suck to play as, aswell as being weak
Twins are strong but they are really clunky because they have a 2 sec delay when using their power, very similar to a Nurse after she blinks.
Instead, to make the Twins less clunky to play, the developers should
- Remove the "Nurse-vision-dimming" mechanic completely
- When you press the activate ability...
- You should be able to move the Twin you are changing-from for 2 seconds, instead of a 2 second long pause.
- Then immediately switch to the other Twin.
No "nurse-vision-dimming" and no 2 second long pause. The 2 second delay in switching Twins is still there, there just isn't that clunky feeling, as if you are trying to crank a beat-up Pinto on a cold winters morning.
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@beatddb said:
I've been playing nurse for a long time, and the things I found to hurt me/ work against her the most are:
1) Double-back after losing LOS
2) Keep moving in the same direction she last saw you before losing LOS
3) Lose LOS and move away from the tile instead of doing point 1 or 2.
I swear to god most survivors in my matches do point 1 90% of the time and by the time they understand it doesnt work they're on death hook already.
Playing against nurse is about mixing these 3 points together and to be unpredictable as possible, you can also avoid doing things like looking behind you if you're about to double back because that just gives it away a lot.
But when I face survivors who do a combination of those 3 things it really messes me up.
What do you do against a Nurse where you can't break line of sight for long enough to do one of these strategies?
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911992#Comment_2911992
The game is stressful for all killer across the board thanks to being the more micromanaging, nonstop action/concentration role, if the matchup is equal or favouring survivors. No one would say that it's stressful to kill less skilled survivor.
So that problem is still not solved at all. And please don't come me with everyone saying that they are at high MMR, we both know that most don't know and just say that to emphasize their claims "legitimacy" on both sides.
It's absolutely less stressful to kill less skilled survivors.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912049#Comment_2912049
Thanks, Peanits! I figured it was low, your “very very few” sounds like it’s closer to 1% than 10%.
Someone else mentioned a concern about long term MmR drifting upwards, but I suspect that probably doesn’t happen much (since a very low percentage of people are at the cap) plus I’m guessing Behavior periodically monitors how many players are in various brackets in case they need to adjust the ceiling or initial ratings.
If it's a bell-curve, you are most likely right. 68% of a bell-curve is 1 standard deviation. 95% of a bell-curve is 2 standard deviations. 99% of a bell-curve is 3 standard deviations.
So the top percentage will either be 16%, 2.5% or 0.5%. My guess is 2.5% is considered the top players.
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@Mandy said:
No, it's not mid level to high level. It's the extreme end of the high level - they will be matched with the next level down, so the really really good players basically.
Mid level is not going to change and that's where the majority of players are. The camp will not be reduced enough to affect mid level matches, just those at the top end of the scale.
Ah, I appreciate the explanation.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911859#Comment_2911859
Yeah i just read it myself and saw your quoting notification pop up.
From the looks of it (if they can manage what they theorize here) it might not be as bad and only the top half or less of the "mid-skill-section" might be in for a worse time as sacrifice for the top players "amusement".
But that remains to be seen and from i saw the last time i played, matchmaling didn't even do what they promised and for example o myself with 300 hours since release and intentionally throwing games after 8 hooks for over a year still sometimes got matched with several thousand hour players or even their swfs.
But even than the fact remains that they, similar to old ranked based mm, are planning to sacrifice mid level skilled players for the high skilled players fun which means that survivor that get boosted by swf and comms get easier killer to bully and streamer get survivor fodder for their win streaks. At least the low skill and new players might be saved.
It does sound like the developers are going to be sacrificing mid-level players to high level killers so the matches will not be as stressful for high level killers, doesn't it.
Then again, that's the complaints I'm seeing on these forums. Matches are too stressful for high level killers and need to be less stressful. So I guess the way to solve that is to give them easy 4ks.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911798#Comment_2911798
Easy to learn? Subjective.
Easy to master? No, and that's objective.
No, you're not. Trapper is easy to play. He requires some knowledge of where to place his Traps but that's it, he's a basic M1 Killer with a situational, weak Power.
Nurse and Blight aren't exactly enjoyable to play on console, and even if they were, they're not Demogorgon
All of the killers goals are exactly the same: chase survivors, hook survivors and prevent gens from being done. Some killers have much better tools to accomplish this such as Nurse and worse tools to accomplish this such as Demogorgon. If you are equally skilled with both Nurse and Demogorgon, then you cap out with Nurse, because you are 4king every single group you go against. Most likely, you'll never cap out with Demogorgon, so it's very possible to be a higher skilled killer with Demogorgon than it is with Nurse, just because with Nurse can cap out.
If you make Demogorgon as good as Nurse, at what point does Demogorgon stop being Demogorgon. If you can transverse the map as quick as Nurse, that means that you stop using your teleport. That would make Demogorgon competitive in higher ranks but doesn't Demogorgon lose his essence at that point.
You should check out the developer thread on MMing, it might make you feel better about it.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911698#Comment_2911698
I don't want easy 4Ks, and I don't want to not stand a chance against a 4-Man.
Nurse and Blight are pure skill-oriented Killers, and require skill to play as and against. If the Survivors/Killer lost, it's because they played badly.
Sure, every Killer can get a 4K thanks to the SBMM pitting them against weak Survivors, but if SBMM puts good, equally skilled players against each other, and the Killer isn't Blight or Nurse, the Killer loses
Blight, I've always thought of as a low skill killer, when I play him, he's very easy to learn. Nurse is extremely high skill, but she's also all muscle memory, once you've developed the muscle memory for Nurse, you're done.
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Ok, I'm just being hypothetical here.
Say I'm playing Trapper, who is considered a bad killer but one that I really love playing. Even if I am struggling against a mid-level SWF, I'm still using the same amount of skill as I would playing a Nurse at the highest level of play, maybe even more skill. Because lets be honest, a Nurse going against a high-level SWF is easier than a Trapper going against a upper-mid level SWF.
Personally, when I win with Trapper, it feels more significant to me because I know the Trapper is more difficult to use than, say Blight. (I'm sure I would say the same thing if I spent the time to get the muscle memory down for Nurse).
If skill levels of both parties being equal is important for you, why not just play Nurse or Blight?
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@Eareland said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911641#Comment_2911641
Slug against Soul Guard and new recovery boon? What makes you think I knew their ALL perks when I entered the game lol
You aren't playing hexes so Soul Guard is irrelevant. The second you pick up a survivor, you knew they had boil over. Since you go to the forums, you also probably know that RPD has an issue getting survivors to hooks if survivors goes to the top of the library. If you didn't, then you would quickly learn that is an issue when you can't get a survivor to a hook.
So, at this point, you should have changed your strategy to slugging.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911629#Comment_2911629
Any Killer that has a chance to 4K every game, like Nurse and Blight. Every other Killer kinda just gives up against a 4-Man SWF
Under the current system with SBMMR, every killer does have a chance to get a 4k.
Unless you mean you want a 4k every single game. Which, personally, I think adding bot survivors would help with that.
Or you mean that you want the highest skilled person to take the worse Killer against an equally skilled SWF and get a 4k, 50% of the time. If Otz is any indication, that's also possible.
I would say Nurse and Blight are able to go way past the skill level of the survivors and still get kills, especially the Nurse.
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@Eareland said:
Just ridiculous. There's nothing wrong if it would be normal gameplay but obviously it isn't and was planned...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M8UMB9YDVAXS/dbdboil.png
First problem is that you didn't drop the first survivor that you picked up on top of the library and slug them, since you immediately should have known they were going to abuse the flaw in the RPD library.
It's the same as survivors having to face a AFK Pig, you have a way to win, you just have to adapt your play style.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911533#Comment_2911533
It's an average, and the average Survivor is worse than an average Killer, which means they'll die more often, which leads to the average ~50% killrate.
If we would look at high MMR, things would be different, but we don't have such stats, so the best thing we can do is speculate.
After all the unbalanced things/buffs and nerfs the devs added to "balance" the killrate, I don't really care what they consider "viable"
What would you consider viable?
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911424#Comment_2911424
A draw doesn't mean that a Killer's viable
It's an average of 2ks and 2es, which means the killer can get 3ks an 4ks, which is a win and can get 0ks and 1ks which is a loss, while also getting 2ks and 2es. So, on average, any killer wins half the time, which means the killer is viable, base on what the developers have decided is balance.
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@cburton311 said:
How is dead harding for distance any different then, lithe, sprint burst, or balanced landing. They all grant 150% speed for 3 seconds, which if I am doing my math right is a ~5m distance gain on the killer (4m/s * 150% = 6m/s for 3 seconds = 18 meters of distance traveled, killer travels 4.6*3 - 13.8 m or 4.4*3=13.2 m depending on running speed).
After dead hard do all these other perks need to get nerfed next?
Of course, perks should grant the user of the perk an advantage when used?
So, how long does it take for a Killer to catch up to someone using Sprint Burst, vs someone using Dead Hard?
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911357#Comment_2911357
Both sides are equally important, Survivors shouldn't be treated with more respect than Killers. What you're saying is that Killers are meaningless drones that are there to be a toy for the Survivors.
Killers carry the game, not the Survivors. No one really cares about playing Meg or even Laure Strode, people want to play as Michael Myers, Freddy Krueger, Amanda Young, Ghostface.
Survivors already are the priority when it comes to balance, it's why there are only 2 viable Killers in the entire game
Every killer is able to get 2k/2e because of SBMM, meaning that every killer is viable according to the developers standards. Nurse is able to break the 2k/2e rule that the developers have decided is how players are balanced.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910756#Comment_2910756
Circle of Healing only takes longer than Self-Care to use because of the time it takes to set it up. Time that the other three survivors don't have to put in, because it's already been set up.
Ergo, CoH is better than Self-Care for the whole team, just not if you only consider the person who brought it.
The calculations take that into account.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910736#Comment_2910736
The true value is that instead of running four Self-Cares on your team, you can run one CoH and your teammates have a slot freed up for a strong perk like DS or Unbreakable.
Self Care is considered a bad perk because it takes so long to heal. Why would a smart survivor waste a perk slot of Circle of Healing, which actually takes longer than Self-Care to use. You are basically giving Self-Care to everyone on your team.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909249#Comment_2909249
Assuming you actually put your Boon in an intelligent spot, you're still almost always going to get mega value even with the newest nerf.
The only time Circle of Healing is better than Self-Care, speed-wise, is if Circle of Healing is within 2 seconds walk of the aura and a generator, lol. It's a horrible perk now. If you are more than 3 seconds away from the Circle of Healing aura, you're better off using Self Care.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910224#Comment_2910224
I mean even against decent survivors mindbreaker does nothing but help them if they're using sprint burst.
Mindbreaker is a pretty overpowered perk. It severally handicaps exhaustion perks. You have to remember, if someone uses an exhaustion perk, they have to stay off a gen and walk to get it to recover or get hooked.
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@Mozic said:
Hey! I was joking with my friend over the latest twitter post that I'd bring my aluminum water bottle into the Fog since I'd get thirsty, and it quickly turned into an idea for what I think would be a healthy and practical expansion to the survivor's repertoire of items:
Water bottles would hold charges to allow a survivor to expedite recovery from exhaustion. They would need to stay put while they channel the item (like a medkit or toolbox) but while they do so, their exhaustion recovers at 200% or higher, depending on addons & rarity. A handy water bottle could mean the ability to stay closer to the action or re-engage the killer faster, at the cost of an item's charges (and the opportunity cost of bringing a water bottle as opposed to a medkit).
I'd see a brown water bottle providing about 8-12 seconds worth of saved time while a purple would mimic its medkit parallel and allow for much more. Addons could be used to expand capacity, increase the recovery rate (potentially depleting charges faster) and an iridescent effect could be something like being able to consume the bottle like a syringe for an instant 'mini-sprint burst'. You may also include the ability to offer water to a teammate like you would heal a teammate, though it'd be hard to know which teammates are exhausted without external comms (or I guess, your teammate frantically teabagging and pointing at your hand, desperate for your trusty canteen)
Water bottles would be especially useful for survivors in situations where they would prefer to remain injured (such as against killers who score easy injuries like Legion or Plague, or killers who have exposed downs like Ghost Face, Meyers, Billy, and Bubba) or to complement injury builds like No Mither, Resilience, and so on.
Water bottles would be worthless to survivors who have no exhaustion perks equipped, but exhaustion perks are common and it'd be easy enough for game knowledge to spread regarding the appropriate situations to use the item.
What do y'all think?
The developers need to fix the other 2 items before adding another. Keys are worthless and Flashlights need a buff of some sort, they are to weak right now.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910280#Comment_2910280
No. Gen speeds are worse with CoH because survivors heal faster. It's less time healing overall. I'd rather survivors have longer heal times or make the poor decision to stay injured.
Healing is not a secondary objective.
You have noticed that gen-speed threads just suddenly started popping up after the CoH nerf was announced. I counted 2 today. I don't remember seeing them before the CoH nerf announcement. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Survivors were using Resilience, Spine Chill, Dead Hard and Adrenaline to be able to rush through gens before boon totems. CoH replaced Resilience, and created a healing meta that allowed Killers some breathing room. In the games I've been watching, I've noticed a big increase in survivors working on gens while injured, which means they're probably running Resilience. Just saying.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910261#Comment_2910261
Gen speeds were like this before CoH was even a perk. All CoH changed was allowing survivors to heal faster and more often before getting back on a gen.
Exactly. Gen speeds were faster before CoH and CoH slowed down gen speeds by giving survivors a "secondary" objective, which was healing. The developers gave Killers exactly what they wanted, slower gen speeds, by adding a "secondary" objective and killers complained that survivors where using the "secondary" objective and got it nerfed. Now the gen speed issues have come back.
You can't give survivors a useless "secondary" objective and expect them to use it.
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@Exxodus21 said:
This shouldn't be possible. I was pig on Temple of Purgation. A gen popped before I could even get to it and 2 more popped during my first chase. This all happened under 90 seconds. This shouldn't be possible and isn't fun at all. I got 1 kill because I resorted to camping after the 5th gen popped in under 4 minutes. Fix your GD maps BHVR. A generator should never be able to be completed before a killer can physically make it to the gen. If a gen can be completed before a killer can actually walk to all 5 then you know your map is poorly designed. Be better.
Look, more gen speeds are too quick thread after the "secondary" objectives, Circle of Healing nerf was announced. It's almost like survivors are switching from the healing meta to the gen speed meta. Gen speeds will only get quicker once the CoH nerf goes through and more survivors stop using boons and go back to gen speed builds.
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@Piruluk said:
I couldnt get any value from keys since the nerf.
1, Has to be the last survivor since Hatch only spawns if everyone else dead or left(at worst case means that you have like 10-20 sec to find it)
2, Hatch has to be closed by killer(since it spawns open so no need for key), and then you can search for the hatch use the key
They are completely useless and you equipping one is stopping you from equipping something much more useful, such as a toolbox, medkit or map.
Keys are also utter waste of bloodpoints on your bloodweb and make plundering chests absolutely useless.
My suggestion is forget about keys in everyway and use that time on gens. When the developers realize that survivors aren't using their secondary objectives and making gen speeds unbearable for killers, then maybe these "secondary" objectives will be buffed to the point where survivor will consider using them again.
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@itsPina said:
Otz recently posted a video where 70-80% of all survivors he went against for a few day span ran dead hard. How are the devs, notoriously focused solely on data, able to justify not ######### nerfing this perk? Are they going to let the player count reach zero? That's what it's looking like.
Remember when they said new killers would get touched up during the next mid chapter patch? What happened to that? What happened to the key/mori change? What happened to the bloodpoint change?
Dead Hard is the only perk I can think of that allows a survivor to make a play against a face-camping killer. You have to take a hit, before you can rescue a hooked survivor. You have to have Borrowed Time and hope that survivor is able to body-block for you and take a hit, so they can run away. Then you have to have Dead Hard to attempt to make it to a loop. No other perk in the game allows for this.
I don't think you can nerf Dead Hard without also nerfing face-camping so that there is a counter to it.
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@The_Krapper said:
I think bots should be there for a DC , or for custom games where you want to test new killers before a public match
Why not let people play against bots if they want. Look at League of Legends, there's plenty of people that have fun playing bot games. It's less stressful and you don't have to worry about the game being balanced. You can 4k bots all day long if you want.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905031#Comment_2905031
This. Keep nerfing items, healing, boons, perks, just about everything survivors have.. and see how fast matches will go! 🤷🏼♂️
That's true, but at the point, there's not really a challenge, because you will be guaranteed 4ks every game. Right now the games at 50%, you can slow down gen speeds without also buff survivors. Circle of Healing, slowed down gen speeds by giving survivors a useful objective, healing, to do and it buffed survivors healing while nerfing their gen speed.
Survivors aren't stupid, they know they have to be time efficient and if something isn't time efficient (CoH post-nerf), they aren't going to do it.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905031#Comment_2905031
The problem was that CoH was not a second objective in any sense of 'slowing down gens'.
All it took was people using it twice, and now they have actually GAINED time over healing without it. It stopped being a gen slowdown and started being a gen speedup because Survivors spent less time healing and more time on gens. It paid for it's own time sink with just 2 uses.
It definitely was. People keep forgetting that you have time trying to find a totem to bless. Also, since the boon as to be in a position away form the center, there is travel time to the boon and then travel time back to a gen. Let's say about 4 sec to get to the boon, then another 4 to get back to a gen. (I actually would say it's more travel time, but we'll go with the small number). With travel time, it takes 3 uses before it is better than the worst perk in the game, Self Care.
Even going by your numbers, without including travel time, it takes 2 uses before it's better than a perk that Killers want to see in their game, Self Care. And I know for a fact that Killers get rid of boons really quick and usually you only get 2 or 3 heals from it.
- 14 sec - Bless Totem
- 18 sec - Heal
- 4~ sec - Travel Time to Totem
- 4~ sec - Travel Time back to gen
- Total - 40 seconds first Heal
- 18 sec - Heal
- 4~ sec - Travel Time to Totem
- 4~ sec - Travel Time to gen
- Total - 33 seconds 2nd heal
- 18 sec - Heal
- 4~ sec - Travel time to totem
- 4~ sec - Travel time to gen
- Total 30 sec 3rd heal
I've said this before, if you want a secondary objective in the game to slow down gens, then it has to be seen as valuable to the survivors. Judging the current drop in usefulness, it's no longer going to be valuable to the survivor. With the nerf, survivors will see it as Circle of Selfish Care, because the numbers are so horrible on it.
It's better to rush gens and not worry about healing after this nerf.
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@Pulsar said:
I've always been in support of a second Survivor objective.
Few people enjoy sitting on gens and Killers don't enjoy seeing gens pop quickly.
There is 2 secondary survivor objectives. Boons and Chests. Both of these were meant to slow down gen speeds. However, both have become so useless that no one wants to use them anymore. The killers asked for a nerf to CoH and use of CoH is already dropping. Now we're seeing Killers complain about gen speeds because of the nerf they asked for. (Use of CoH has dropped 10% since the announcement of the CoH nerf according to nightlight, the aggregate stat site). My guess is survivors are going back to the gen speed meta and turning away from the healing meta that popped up with CoH.
I noticed while CoH was dominate, that killers rarely asked for gen speed nerfs at the time.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I have zero desire to play against bots
I'd quit the game before I'd accept bots being in the standard multiplayer pool of players
If you want bots for a practice mode or if you want basic bots for when someone DCs, sure, that's fine but I do not play a multiplayer game to play against a computer. If I wanted to play against a computer, I'd be playing a singleplayer game.
And no, as a killer, I don't just want 4Ks every game. I want the game to be fun. I can have a blast getting 0 Kills and I can be absolutely miserable in a 4K game depending on what is happening during said game.
You don't have to play bots if you don't want to.
I assume you are enjoying playing killer against survivors. There's a lot of killer-players on these forums, that it sounds like it's absolute misery playing killer. And the complaint boils down to, survivors need to be easier to go against.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902995#Comment_2902995
I know I'm high mmr because survivors don't dead hard into the freaking walls lmao
LOL.
In all honesty, no one knows what their MMR is. If you are resorting to face-camping and tunneling-off-hook, you probably aren't in high MMR.
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@vanGlasse1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903106#Comment_2903106
that's really surprising to me as well since that perk is really so useless considering how Luck affects so little as an in game stats + the value on the perk is not high enough to be useful as well. I would think the Corrective Action is even below due to being more recently added in game while also being kind of not very interesting to pick if not for the Adept achievement, but the other 3 perks in the list aren't so recent which is kind of funny
I want to know, how you are a game developer for a game that's been out for 6 years, and you think Corrective Action should ever be in the game. There's no reason to even make that perk.
Then again, the developers haven't really done anything with survivors for 4 years, except for Circle of Healing and that's getting nerfed into uselessness.
Literally 1 meta perk for survivors in 4 years and the developers are nuking it.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903264#Comment_2903264
Read the thread. Look at the comments. Most people agree the nerf was understandable, but the wrong way to go about it. Hell, the comment with the most updoots says exactly that and it's got more than the OP.
As an aside saying "KILLERS WANT THIS" and "KILLERS ARE LIKE THIS" is a really reductive way to get your point across. Folks that prefer that role are not a hive mind. Dead by daylight has two parts to it, if you're not playing them both you're limiting your experience of the game.
This was a response to a Killer-main that was saying survivors were being coddled. Maybe it's not the best way to go about it but d*mn, survivors haven't gotten any new that's usable, perk-wise, in 4 years except for Circle of Healing.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I haven't seen a single "WE WON" thread from these supposed killer mains.
What I have seen are a bunch of well-reasoned and insightful posts about how most folks didn't want it nerfed in this fashion. They wanted Circle (and boons in general) to be a powerful but limited resource. Their infinite nature means that they'll always have to have a weak effect to not be oppressive.
And honestly? Circle? Still a good perk. A-tier. It's telling how incredibly overpowered it was at launch that it's been scaled back drastically and is still a really good perk.
The day the announced the perk there was an actual, "We Won" thread posted by Killers, and I think it had 6 f*cking pages of Killers patting themselves on the back.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/316816/coh-nerfed-we-won-guys-we-won