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Munqaxus

Munqaxus

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  • @MarcoPoloYolo said:

    3 back to back SWF matches filled with nothing but meta perks from the survivors. The first was a wannabe bully squad that thankfully were terrible at looping, their communication being the thing carrying them to a tie. The second was just your average just playing group that happened to be skilled. The third, like the first, had a map offering, with 3 brand new parts (somehow this ended in a draw like the rest).

    You guys do it as well. I didn't pay any attention to the people saying that the survivors were sweating massively. Boy are they right. I was running an off-meta build. The meta build is staying on for the rest of the event.

    You got ties against 3 SWFs and one with 3 Brand New Parts??? Are you seriously complaining??? You must be one of the most entitled killers on this board.

  • @Thr_ust said:

    Only bad thing about hawkins is wraith moves so fast he just jumps right over the holes in the cat walks and in the upside down rooms.

    Actually, that would help that map. Add the upside down through the portal and maybe add some Demogorgon buttholes around the map. It's just to small, to narrow and to many gens in the center.

    The only strategy for survivors is to try and do 2 of the center gens and save the upside down room gen and upstairs gen till last. No one ever does that.

  • @Power_Guy said:

    The problem with the view of most people who complain about NoED is that they think it 'rewards failure'. This could not be more wrong.

    See, the Killer did not fail just because 5 gens popped; the Exit Gates still need to be opened, and the Survivors still need to actually leave the match. At any point between those two things; the Killer can still hit and hook and kill people.

    But, the way I see it, most of those who dislike NoED know this. They just don't want to accept it. So they invent some arbitrary event; the Exit Gates being powered, and then claim it's somehow a fail state for Killers.

    In this way, they have just created an argument against NoED; that it 'rewards failure'. They're wrong, but they will stick to it, because it's the only method to attack NoED that they have.

    Because, and let's face it, their other argument of 'It has no counter' is an utter lie, given the number of anti-totem perks and items that exist.

    So they tried to invent another flaw with the perk; the 'rewards failure' tripe. It's also a lie, but they keep trying.

    I don't see how you could call it anything but rewarding failure. You failed at killing survivors so you get rewarded by BHVR just giving you kills.

    Plus NOED is the ultimate face camping perk in the game.

  • @Chocolate_Cosmos said:

    I wouldn't call a perk that rewards bad play / mistake and (unless used in the open) has 0 counterplay a "one of the best designed Survivor perks".

    It rewards good play because the survivor is playing with the intention of using Dead Hard.

    Like a person who waits for the killer to get close before Sprint Bursting away is playing with the intention of using Sprint Burst.

    0 counter play? You can bait it out. I swear there's a lot of really low level killers in here.

  • Totally agree. Hawkins Lab needs to be removed or reworked. It's way to Killer sided and way to small.

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2346752#Comment_2346752

    Except they don't.

    Sprint burst only is useable at the start of t he chase. Again, it's strength is getting you out of a dead zone and to a loop. Additionally it has an actual downside.

    Lithe automatically activates when vaulting something, this means you can't do perfectly efficient loops without dropping pallets anymore. Additionally, once i know a survivor has it, it becomes clear that they WANT to go for a window, so instead of trying to chase them, or do a fake, you KNOW they want that window, so you fake going one way and as they go through the window, you can often hit them.

    Balanced Landing can only be used in a small amount of places on each map, and, like lithe, it is obvious as hell when you are about to use it. Hills are terrible normally, so if a survivor is going for a hill i can expect it. Additionally like lithe, once i know a survivor has it, i can play around it, i can just NOT chase the survivor in an area near a hill, for example.

    Smash hit requires a pallet stun, which, unless the pallet is really unsafe, is already a chase ender because you usually need to stop to break the pallet. This means that if they use it, i just break the pallet and start chasing someone else.

    By your reasoning every exhaustion perk should be nerfed. They all do something the other ones don't.

    In certain situations Sprint Burst out-shines all the other exhaustion perks, so does Dead Hard, Smash Hit, Lithe and Balanced Landing.

    Dead Hard never out-shines any of the other exhaustion perks all the time. It's balanced and you haven't presented an argument yet to justify it being nerfed.

    Here are you arguments for nerfing and the counter arguments.

    • It gives you 1 second of extra chase time - Other exhaustion perks give you 2 to 3 seconds.
    • It gives you extra chase time after the first hit - So does Lithe, Balanced Landed and Smash Hit.
    • In very specific situations it out-performs other exhaustion perks - So does every other exhaustion perk.
  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2346083#Comment_2346083

    I feel like you are intentionally being thick. When you use these abilities are you using them in a flat plane of a map with no objects in it? Or are there loops, pallets, windows and structures?

    Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing and Smash Hit all get you to the exact same loop, pallet or window and they get you to it 2 seconds faster.

    Dead Hard isn't doing something that another exhaustion perk doesn't do except for the i-frames and it's 2 seconds shorter.

    What you should do is play survivor with Dead Hard for 2 weeks, only. Then play survivor with Sprint Burst for 2 weeks, only. You have this fantasy that Dead Hard is OP and it isn't, because all you see is a completely killer sided perspective. Once you play Dead Hard and compare it to Sprint Burst, you'll see that they're pretty much equal (And will most likely see that Sprint Burst is just better).

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2345977#Comment_2345977

    Because you can't use the sprint burst in the chase. You use it right at the start of the chase. So i, as a killer, have options. Dead hard only activates and becomes usable after you already spent 30-60 seconds finding and chasing the survivor then just are about to land the down and BAM, dead hard to a window for distance, now i have to spend another 30 seconds chasing you (and that is assuming you don't use vaults or pallets).

    Sprint burst, because it happens at the start of the chase, i can choose to NOT chase you, and go for someone else, especially if i see you are running to a part of the map that has no generator. Additionally, even if you do use it, and i follow, all it did was get you to another loop. It didn't let you extend the chase other than the "hold w" aspect, which isn't even why it is strong. Hold w is it's own problem, but all it does is add 7 seconds to the time it takes for me to catch up to you if all you do is hold w. Not nearly as long as dead hard. The strength of sprint burst is that you can repair generators in a dead zone and safely get to an area with pallets if the killer shows up.

    Dead hard is effectively a 3rd health state. You do a chase, loop around something for 30 seconds, land a hit. Do another chase, loop around something for 30 seconds, dead hard. Loop around something for 30 seconds, 2nd hit. In the hands of good players, dead hard becomes a 3rd health state.

    Let me simplify.

    • Dead Hard = 1 sec
    • Sprint Burst = 3 sec
    • Lithe = 3 sec
    • Balanced Landing = 3 sec
    • Head On = 3 sec
    • Smash Hit = 4 sec

    The time each ability gives you is the exact same every time. Just because Dead Hard can ONLY be activated in the second part of a chase, doesn't mean it gives you more time. Lithe, Balanced Landing, Head On and Smash Hit can ALL be activated at the start or the second part of a chase.

    Dead Hard has a downside, like every other exhaustion perk. In fact it's downside is much worse than Sprint Burst, Lithe and sometimes Balanced Landing. You have to be injured, you can't use Dead Hard at all against one-hit downs in a healthy state, you only run in a straight line and you only get 1 second out of it.

    The only difference in Dead Hard is it has invulnerability for a split second, and honestly Head On gives you 3 seconds of invulnerability functionally.

    You act like breaking off a chase is game breaking for Sprint Burst, where in fact it means you spend that much more time not in a chase which is much much worse than an extra IMAGINED 30 seconds of chase time with Dead Hard, (You are definitely not doing an extra 30 seconds of chase time every time someone uses Dead Hard) that you also have to do with Lithe, Balanced Landing and Smash Hit (However they give you even more chase time)

    Also, every single exhaustion perk is a single key press to outplay, so that's a really really bad argument.

    ---

    If you want a perk nerfed, then present unbiased hard data. Not made up scenarios that mean absolutely nothing or a single video. Get out excel and document. Otherwise you're building your entire argument on a strawman

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343631#Comment_2343631

    Not true, dead hard lets you get to a pallet or window you otherwise would not.

    How the heck does Dead Hard get you to a pallet or window that Sprint Burst doesn't also get you to the exact same pallet or window but 2 seconds earlier. Your logic makes absolutely no sense.

    Sprint Burst = 3 seconds

    Dead Hard = 1 second

    Please explain how Dead Hard is getting you to somewhere faster than Sprint Burst.

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343405#Comment_2343405

    I don't even need a spreadsheet for that, simple math.

    Sprint burst lets survivors run at 6.0 m/s for 3 seconds. The killer moves at 4.6 m/s. That means if the survivor waits till the last second to activate it and the killer follows them, they gained 1.4 * 3 = 4.2 meters on the killer. Lunge range is 6 meters, so you just wait the sprint burst out and lunge at them. Waiting till the last second isn't optimal, it's better to use it earlier. But, again, if you do that and you play to the shift + w meta, again, all you did was gain 4.2 meters in the chase, which since a killer moves .6 meters faster than a survivor, if both are running in a straight line, sprint burst gained you a total of 7 seconds with 4.2 / .6 = 7.

    Sprint burst is not as good compared to dead hard. It's strength is that you can sprint burst away from a dead zone and get to somewhere that isn't a dead zone.

    And Dead Hard gained less than 5 seconds. Sprint Burst wins.

  • @BrokenSouI said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2341688#Comment_2341688

    It is survivor sided. Mostly because most of the maps are survivor sided

    Yeah, that 40% survive rate is oppressive to killers!

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343370#Comment_2343370

    You really aren't reading my post, every other perk has a downside.

    Sprint burst requires you to walk

    Smash hit requires you to land a pallet stun (which is already normally a chase ender) and is riskier to use, additionally killer's can play around it by respecting the pallet.

    Lithe requires you to vault something, and by it's nature means you aren't looping as efficiently.

    Balanced is highly dependent on map and/or only usable at certain parts of the map

    Head on can't really be used in a chase

    Adrenaline activates once per game.

    Dead hard, just is. Yeah, you have to be injured, but if you are being chased you are likely going to be injured at some point.

    If a survivor runs off with sprint burst they can't use it for 40 seconds. That is a really long time in this game, that is half a gen. Meanwhile i'm patrolling the gens and looking for them.

    But again, you aren't challenging my point. Please explain to me how i, as a killer counter dead hard for distance? I'll wait.

    So does Dead Hard. You are pretending like it doesn't.

    But I tell you what. Prove to us that Dead Hard is so freaking overpowered.

    Get out Excel and take down the average length of chases using Dead Hard vs Sprint Burst. Survivor starts at a gen. Killer starts 32 meters out. Do the exact same looping path for both Sprint Burst and Dead Hard. The survivor can wait at the gen till the last moment till the killer gets there and can Sprint Burst away, which is what survivors do in higher ranks.

    I guarantee that Sprint Burst will beat Dead Hard over and over again.

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343303#Comment_2343303

    Again, please read the rest of my post. The point of dead hard is not the "1 second of speed" the point is to extend a chase by getting a window or pallet that you otherwise would not have been able to get to. Once you have done that, you have effectively extended a chase by at least 20 seconds if you do nothing but hold w and run to a corner of them map. Additionally sprint burst has a downside, they survivor has to walk very slowly around the map if they want to make sure it doesn't activate. What is the downside of dead hard? There is not one.

    So "1 second of speed" gives you 20 seconds of chase time. How long do you think "3 seconds of speed" gives you in chase time? At least 22 seconds but would actually be more because the survivor has even more time to get to a better loop than the "1 seconds of speed" gives you.

    And you don't have to walk everywhere for Sprint Burst, that is crazy talk. Sprint Burst comes back plenty fast enough that you can use it to get to objectives faster and have it ready for the next chase. So not only is Sprint Burst wasting your time with chasing, it speeds up doing gens, which killers don't notice.

    BTW, Dead Hard's downside is being injured. If Leatherface is chasing me with an insta-down chainsaw while I'm healthy, Sprint Burst is going to get me to a pallet or window. Dead Hard will do absolutely nothing. Against an insta-down killer, Dead Hard is going to cost you 1 hook state. Sprint Burst never costs you a hook state.

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/264431/should-dead-hard-get-nerfed

    It's just so much better than the rest of the exhaustion perks because it has no downside in comparison to the others. Dead harding to dodge a hit is fine but the "dead hard for distance" can extend a chase far more than any other exhaustion perk and has no counter. For example, right now we have:

    • Sprint Burst
      • Sprint burst can only be activated at the start of a chase, meaning the killer can break off of the chase and just go after someone else, or try to cut the survivor off somehow. In order to make it usuable in a chase, it must be 99'd, however then you can't do ANYTHING, because if you stop to heal, do a gen etc. you now ready it. Additionally you have to walk everywhere if you want to hold onto it, making you slower outside of the chase
    • Lithe
      • This one requires you to vault something, which means you aren't necessarily being efficient in a loop. If you want to hold onto lithe in a chase, you have to drop a pallet, which is a limited resource and carries it's own risks. Additionally, once you know the survivor has lithe, you can play around it and know now that they WANT to go through the vault, so you can loop a different way, or cut them off early since you know what their plan is.
    • Smash Hit
      • Unless the pallet is some really unsafe pallet, getting stunned is already a chase ender. This perk just makes getting pallet stunned to be even more of a chase ender. additionally it requires you to actually drop a pallet and get a stun. Both of which can be played around, as a killer, i can respect the pallet, and back off. Then when they see i do that, and just keep running i can react to that and no longer respect the pallet, creating our own little mindgame around it. Trying to go for a pallet stun can also be risky for a lot of different reasons depending on the killer
    • Balanced Landing
      • Balanced only works on a few parts of most maps, outside of that it is very map dependent. This means it won't always be readily available to you, and you are stuck to staying around a certain area if you want to use this perk, otherwise you might not get a chance to use it. Also, similar to Lithe, the killer can play around it, it becomes pretty obvious when you are going for that hill, which otherwise would be useless and actually bad for you.
    • Head on
      • Head on can't really be used in a chase unless paired with other perks. Additionally it gives you less distance than most other exhaustion perks. It's main extra function is that you can stun the killer that is carrying a survivor.
    • Adrenaline
      • I'd say the main function of this perk isn't really exhaustion related and is mostly done for the heal and the quick getaway. It also can only activate once per game and also only at the endgame, so it can't really be used to extend a chase.
    • Dead Hard
      • Then we come to dead hard. In theory the downside of dead hard is that it requires you to be injured. But in practice, this isn't actually a downside. Unlike the other main exhaustion perks, in which you give up some level of efficiency in one area to gain efficiency in another, dead hard has nothing but gains. If you are being chased, you are likely going to be injured at some point, meaning it has no downside. Additionally, you can activate it whenever you want, this is the only perk (outside of head on) that you can perfectly control when it activates. All of the others have some sort of condition that you need to play around or achieve in order to activate. Dead hard is just "press e". Dead hard for dodging a hit is actually fine, and has counterplay, just bait the dead hard, and then swing. Dead hard for distance though, has no counter, they just round a corner, press e, and suddenly they are at a pallet or window they otherwise would not have been able to make it to. There is literally no counterplay around that.

    Ideally, to fix dead hard, i would do 1 of 2 things:

    • Make it so you can't control exactly when it activates
    • Make it so it actually has a downside.

    If we want to make it have a downside, i would make it such that using it gives you a debuff that makes it take twice as long for you to be healed for like 60-90 seconds or something. This way it has an actual downside, as a killer, if i see someone dead hard, i now can drop chase with them and be confident that they are either going to be out of the game for a little while trying to heal somewhere, or that the next time i see them i can be sure that they will already be injured.

    Another thing that could be done is changing what it does and how it activates. Since it is about being injured, what i would do is make it increase your movement speed when you get hit. This would be similar to what it is like when you get hit and use sprint burst at the same time, you get a super speed boost for a few seconds. If dead hard worked like this, then it has a downside, in that you CAN'T use it while injured. This means that if i drop chase now, again, i can be confident that you are going to spend some time off of the gens to heal, or on the flipside, if i run into you again injured, i can be sure that you DON'T have dead hard now.

    LOL, Dead Hard can extend a chase longer than any other exhaustion perk!!!

    • Dead Hard is 1 second of speed.
    • Sprint Burst is 3 seconds of speed
    • Lithe is 3 seconds of speed
    • Balanced Landing is 3 seconds of speed
    • Smash Hit is 4 seconds of speed
    • Head On is a 3 second stun

    If you break off a chase with someone with Sprint Burst, that means you didn't even get a chance to do anything because of the perk. How is that worse than Dead Hard??? (On top of the fact that, as a Killer, you wasted all the time going toward the Sprint Burst survivor and then wasted all the time leaving the location of the Sprint Burst survivor after you break off the chase!!! That's way more time wasted for the Killer than Dead Harding for distance will ever do.)

  • @Superyoshiegg said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2340690#Comment_2340690

    ...and what about the inverse, where the two gates are so far apart the Killer has literally 0 chance of making it from one to the other in the twenty seconds it takes to open? That's a free escape for the Survivor.

    It's fine how it is now, where it has a random chance of favouring either side instead of always being in the Survivor's favour.

    In a 1v1 EG situation.

    Almost half the killers are able to patrol 2 gates completely opposite each other or use some other means to still win. Nurse, Billy, Trapper, Wraith, Spirit, Freddy, Hag, Legion, Oni, Blight, Twins. Even without that, most maps are so small, that you can get from one side to the other before the survivor can escape. On top of that, the killer needs to see the survivor to win. So even large maps, there's a chance a non-movement enhanced killer will still win.

    Single survivors have absolutely 0 chance of opening a gate when the gates are side by side. Small maps, they have no chance.

  • @Kate_Main_01 said:

    A question for my fellow Survivors!

    In the majority of games that I have played in the past two weeks when there are two Survivors left in the match the Killer will slug to ensure that the hatch opening is never an option. I have played a few rounds where Survivors have called this taking the game hostage. Some talking about reporting over it.

    I consider it a cheap tactic and a sign of the Killer knowing that the two remaining Survivors (usually who are at no/one hook and have outplayed them in the match before) are more skilled and that one will escape. I personally view it as sweaty and boring, but I don't think it is taking the game hostage which is a reportable offense. That might be the 'saltiest' thing I've said on these forums and it's not meant to instigate anything. 😅

    The counter to this is obviously to bring keys. I've been extremely outspoken for literal years about how anti-key I am but at this point it is the only viable counter to this kind of gameplay. I've got over 75 red keys in my inventory because I've never used them. Countless greens with countless add-ons. As unfun for me as it will be to have to start using them I'm nearing that point.

    So, Survivors, how do you feel?

    This isn't taking the game hostage. It's extremely bad sportsmanship but isn't taking the game hostage.

  • @KateMain86 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328972#Comment_2328972

    To be fair I don't think I have ever seen anyone successfully use this perk since it was added in the game. How often are survivors carried through pallets anyway? The only time I see it really working is if a killer leaves a survivor on the ground at a pallet for a few seconds and they also have flip flop. But again, how often does that happen? Theres a reason why you hardly ever see certain perks used in this game.

    Exactly. People are acting like Killers can only walk between pallets when carrying a survivor or survivors always go down right underneath a pallet. This just doesn't happen. Once the Killer knows you have it, they are going to avoid walking between pallets and they are going to avoid slugging. This buff won't even make it a meta perk.

  • @WishIcouldmain said:

    Sole Survivor and Distortion hopefully for the Mid-Chapter

    Distortion could use a buff, especially since there are so many Killer aura seeing perks now.

  • Correlation does not imply causation

  • @Reinami said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2327665#Comment_2327665

    This is why i'm a nurse main. But then i get told i'm a "tryhard" or "boring" and survivors DC half the time.

    Well there's your problem. You play a broken killer and are comparing every other killer to Nurse.

  • @BingBongMan said:

    We've all had the situations as survivor wher we get unhooked. Only to find that our savior has vanished into thin air, leaving us injured as you hear the heartbeat grow louder.

    We've also been on the other end of the spectrum, where we pull a move so smooth brained that it puts us back on th hook.

    Point is that it's not always the killer being a dick that causes the tunneling. Sometimes our teammates leave the killer no better option, or we put ourselves back on the hook with a bad decision.

    Yes it sucks to be on the receiving end, but sometimes it just happens.

    Here is a definition of tunneling.

    Tunneling /v/ - When a killer player stays close enough to a hooked survivor player so they have the ability to return to the hooked survivor player the moment that player is unhooked with the intention of exclusively chasing, downing and hooking the same survivor player, that was hooked previously, before that survivor player is able to perform any other actions with the intention of removing that survivor player from the game or reducing the number of hook states that survivor has.

  • @Power_Guy said:

    For me, it's when Survivors verbally abuse me in end game chat because I broke their made-up honor system about camping/tunneling/slugging, so I was 'toxic first' and 'deserve it'.

    But we all know those types will ALWAYS be vile, and will invent any excuse to blame their target for their own actions.

    Now that's kind of interesting. There's already a lot of people on this thread saying that camping/tunneling and slugging is toxic. So I guess the question would be, does one type of toxic behavior justify another type of toxic behavior.

    I think being toxic hurts your own psyche as well as harming other peoples psyche's. When you participate in toxic behavior, it reinforces that type of behavior in your own personality. So where before, you have to actively force yourself to act toxically, more and more, your default behavior is to be toxic. No longer are you just being toxic to strangers over the internet as you continue, all of the sudden, you are subconsciously being toxic to friends and family, alienating them.

    I think it's a learned behavior that eventually becomes a subconscious behavior.

  • @Power_Guy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321982#Comment_2321982

    You don't seem to understand that the Killer's goal is to remove everyone from the match. All you can focus on is HOW they did it, say you don't approve, and demand they be punished for not doing it in a Survivor Approved(tm) way.

    Sorry, but you're wrong. The Killer does not deserve to be punished because they did not let Survivors get an unhook, or did not chase the first survivor they saw like a brainless AI NPC.

    You don't get to decide what are fair ways, times, or methods to which the Killer has to adhere too, or face justice.

    So again, no. No, there should not be a BP punishment, or ANY punishment, for camping/tunneling/slugging, just because you don't approve of it. That's not how balance works. That's not how player agency works.

    Give the hooked Survivor BP for being camped, so the match is not a total waste for them. That's all.

    Those screaming for 'punishments' are saying 'Force Killers to play by my pre-approved methods, regardless of circumstances. I demand my fake rules be followed!'

    But game balance does not work like that, sorry. The opposing team does not get to decide how their opponent plays, because the opposing team, wanting to win, will always have a bias in those rules.

    You are reacting, you are not thinking.

    You agree that allowing one person to completely remove the ability of another person from playing your game is bad game design from a game developers perspective?

  • @Power_Guy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321904#Comment_2321904

    Read page 2, buddy. Camping punishes itself, and SURVIVORS reward it by going TOWARDS the camping killer instead of doing gens.

    I love this mindset of 'Camping is rewarded by Killers!'. it's 100% WRONG. Survivors reward it by walking into the waiting arms of the thing trying to find them, then whine that Killers are being unfair over what is, at it's core, bad SURVIVOR play.

    If Survivors do gens instead of walk towards a camping Killer; the Killer gets ONE kill before 3-5 gens pop. How is that not punishment?

    Oh right; because the Killer got an 'unfair kill'. 🙄 I will go blind if I roll my eyes any harder.

    The person playing killer makes the decision to camp. That person has decided to remove another person's ability to play the game for 2 minutes plus the amount of time it took to get into a match.

    The person that has decided to remove another person's ability to play the game for, at the minimum of about 7 minutes, does not deserve to be rewarded but does deserve to be punished by whatever is necessary to change that type of behavior. Right now, the punishment is not severe enough.

  • @Power_Guy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321776#Comment_2321776

    It does not need justifying.

    Killer's don't need your permission, or need to write Survivors an essay on why they need to camp, to get permission to do so.

    They also don't have to chase Survivors just because they see them, like you seem to think.

    If I see a Survivor slinking around; a good bet is that his friend is ALSO nearby. That's 3 of 4 people around the hook. 3 of 4 people not doing gens.

    Why the hell would I walk away from the hook at that point? Because Survivors demand I do so? Sorry, but I'm not a bloody AI; I don't have to do what you want, nor give you chances for unhooks. You failed to save your friend when you showed yourself to me. As a reasoning human being, I cam be rather sure you're not alone. I'll try to hit you, but I won't bail on the hook because you demand I 'play fair'.

    You're trying to win, and I'm trying to win. You don't get to decide how, or when, I get to try killing Survivors. You don't get to demand I be punished because you don't like how I went about winning.

    I'm your opponent; if you can't accept that your opponent will try their best to win, then maybe you need to rethink how PvP games work. Not trying to be insulting, but allot of 'Punish camping!' threads boil down to people not understanding that Killers can try just as hard as Survivors to win.

    Exactly. Aside from EGC, a killer is rewarded for playing poorly and for ruining another players experience by camping.

  • When you are causing another player to not be able to play a game for 2 minutes, plus queue time, then yes, camping does need justification. Why do you think this type of behavior does not need justification?

  • @Power_Guy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321725#Comment_2321725

    I can think of how it would be abused:

    Survivor #4 is hooked. #3 and #2 stand out in the open, where the Killer can see them, but too far away to be chased easily.

    Now the Killer has to decide between a punishment, or giving up a free unhook.

    Stop with this BS. It was tried with a slowed/paused Struggle Timer back in the day, and Survivors abused it EXACTLY how I just described.

    Just because you dislike camping does not mean it needs a punishment to force Killers to conform to your made up rules. Rewarding the Survivor is enough.

    So your reasoning is that Survivor #2 and #3 are giving you a far easier chase target than you would normally get, yet you would prefer and sit in front of a hooked survivor and camp them?

    I mean think about it, if Survivor #2 and #3 weren't sitting out in the open, then you would have to find Survivor #2 and Survivor #3, then start a chase.

    In your scenario, Survivor #2 and #3 and letting you being a chase right off the bat instead of having to search for someone.

    How does this justify camping?

  • @Power_Guy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321714#Comment_2321714

    No. The Killer does not need to be punished. Survivors would abuse this by camping nearby to force the Killer to camp.

    People need to stop trying to invent punishments for petty reasons.

    Yes, the killer does need to be punished for camping. It stunts the ability of the killer to improve in skill and it actively causes a player to not be able to play the game.

    If a survivor is camping nearby and the Killer isn't chasing the survivor, then the killer is intentionally camping. Either the killer sees the survivor and chases him or the killer doesn't see the survivor and leaves the area? Can you think of another reason why a killer would just stay around a hooked survivor?

  • @Sypherpathic said:

    Why not just give bloodpoints to the the survivor on hook when the killer is camping? I'm effectively 'keeping the killer busy', so why not?

    You could count it within a certain radius and have done with it. Say 5m or 10m or something. Maybe as long as the default Kindred would show the killer's aura?

    I mean, it's no penalty to the killer and gives something to the poor schlub that's being camped.

    I think it should go further. If a killer is within 32 meters of a hooked survivor, EGC isn't active and the killer isn't in a chase, every 10 seconds, the survivor gets 1000 bps and the killer loses 1000 bps.

  • @Mooks said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319238#Comment_2319238

    Pretty sure leatherface doesn’t count as transgender. He doesn’t even get the concept of genders at all. He just wears different outfits for different occasions with appropriate faces without knowing about gender roles

    It's possible. But I do think of "Silence of the Lambs" and Buffalo Bill. He was making a woman suit. However, they did mention in the movie that the psychology test did show he wasn't transgendered. What should be added to the DBD story is that LGBT+ people can't be taken to the entities realm because they are just to good for the entity to take. ;)

  • @Raptorrotas said:

    Short answer: No.

    • It's fine
    • They did it for a reason
    • It's more balanced
    • It was too strong compared to other anyway.
    • It was ised in unintended ways
    • Bad players get carried by it.

    It doesnt deserve or warrant a second usage. Its stun wasnt even nerfed.

    "it got nerfed but the devs have to give it a huge buff to compensate"

    • Judging by the market increase in tunneling, it is not fine.
    • BHVR did it so you don't have 1 minute of invulnerability. This buff has nothing to do with that.
    • It can be improved to address the current off-the-hook tunneling meta, that the Current DS does nothing about
    • It was unbalanced when it gave you 1 minute of invulnerability. This buff doesn't change that.
    • Yes. Again, this buff doesn't allow it to be used in unintended ways.
    • No. Good players took advantage of the invulnerability, which was removed. Bad players didn't get carried by it.

    It does warrant a second usage because of the new tunnel-off-the-hook meta and because it doesn't deter tunneling now. The nerf unintendingly made DS useless against tunneling, because before, killers respected DS more and because DS was used more.

    And to address this final argument. "It got nerfed by the devs have to give it a huge buff to compensate", let's just look at Hex:Ruin and how powerful it became after it's "nerf". Plus, if you over nerf a meta perk that was preventing an undesired behavior (tunneling) and all the sudden tunneling comes back with a vengence, then that meta perk will need to be buffed to reduce the undesired behavior (tunneling).

    The Dev's already tried adding a default object of obsession to try and nerf tunneling and that didn't work. Tunneling is in the game but obviously the Dev's feel that it makes survivor players not want to play the game, so they wanted a counter to it. Plus, it's a crutch that bad killers use. A good killer just doesn't need to tunnel, in almost all but very specific situations. And tunneling shouldn't be a guaranteed free kill for killers either.

  • Now if there was a LGBT+ killer, I would be up for that. I personally don't was the LGBT+ character getting killed over and over again. :)

    Leatherface is either a cross-dresser or is possibly transgendered, in movie lore and he has a female outfit.

  • @Edilibs said:

    The game is balanced around Ruin being up, regardless of how fast it can be destroyed. Ruin is high risk, high reward or a coin flip so now high levels (us) are resorting to using a perk slot for Undying with the hopes of Ruin staying up a bit longer. Heres the problem... In more than a few games i had within a day Undying/Ruin got destroyed within the first minute of the match and notice i didnt say Ruin got destroyed, no BOTH Undying and Ruin have been getting destroyed in my games rather fast and back to back too which is discouraging because you only have two perks to use ( and in my case at rank 2 i play Freddy to get back to rank 1 and i have to power through teams with BBQ/Pop). I know some people will say just run Corupt/Pop but honestly i dont like Corrupt because it sometimes conflicts with my 3 gen strat so i prefer BBQ for a little more consistency.

    Bottom line, as fun and or challenging killer can be it is in no way easy and because other perks dont really slow down gens too much (Thanatophobia, Dying Light) they are virtually useless against strong survivors who just power through the gens anyway, gens just go way too fast at high level.. So what im getting at is the very title of the thread. Expect your Undying/Ruin to get destroyed early and learn to play two perks. I think this is only the case because all other perks do very little without Ruin to win you the game or draw (2k and Brutal Killer), even Pig who has her own in game slowdown can lose or struggle with teams because of this so there you go. It would be nice to see at least 70% of killer perks to get buffed or do something with the gens, i dont know, something

    Right now, there have been a lot of anti-hex perks on the survivor side that have been added or buffed. You have to really consider how easy it is for survivors to get totems, even if they are hidden in the absolute best spot in the map. The meta has shifted away from hex perks, so you have to adjust.

  • Personally, I feel that all forms of entertainment in this day and age have adopted a philosophy that every race, gender and sexuality have to be perfectly represented in every film, game or television show. This is not realistic and it's amazingly bland and lacks artistic integrity. A story of any type, should not try and force an ideal into it just because. In fact, the best stories are ones that form organically, without agenda's shoved into them.

    For example, John Carpenters, The Thing did not have a single female character in the entire movie, yet it was still a great movie. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon didn't have a single Caucasian character in it and it was great.

    Another example is Supergirl TV show. It has every race, gender and sexuality represented in it and you feel like there's an agenda trying to be shoved down your throat. It doesn't make the TV show any better, in fact it's a detriment to the show a lot of times.

    I'm gay. I like Supergirl the TV show. However, it would be better served just telling a story instead of trying to shoe-horn all this political agenda stuff into it when it really doesn't need it most times.

  • @gatsby said:

    Smash Hit is the exhaustion perk that you can run with another exhaustion perk. The key to Smash Hit's strength is that it never makes you exhausted unintentionally and it is VERY strong when it does get used. Killers do not expect multiple exhaustion perks and will play around the first exhaustion perk they see.

    If you use Smash Hit first, the Killer will play around that as your exhaustion, which opens the door for completely unexpected Dead Hards or Balanced Landings and vice versa. Keeps your chases varied and the surprise factor usually allows you to use both perks in the exhaustion combo.

    You can do that with Lithe, Balanced Landing, Head-on and Dead-Hard.

    Honestly, I think Smash Hit needs a slight buff, since it's only usable when using a pallet to stun the killer. Since pallets are already so limited and all the other exhaustion perks are pretty much unlimited. I would say Smash Hit should active when you throw down a pallet either with or without a stun. Otherwise, every other exhaustion perk WAY outclasses it. It's just underwhelming.

  • @Facture said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318490#Comment_2318490

    East Coast NA? Because I'm not having that problem between 9pm-3am est. My survivor games are about a 5 minute wait and killer games are less than a minute.

    Yeah East Coast NA. 5:00pm - 9:00pm. Survivor is about 5 to 10 minutes. Killer is probably around 1 minute.

  • @chargernick85 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318334#Comment_2318334

    Idk where your playing at but those times are not accurate for me. Survivor 30 seconds or less, killer 20 minutes. I'm east coast and only play between the hours of 5pm - 11pm and it's been like this for idk roughly 2 weeks maybe 3. Oh I know maybe it's because the game is broke? It's broke for killer too but you need less killers then survivors.

    Me too. Killer is taking much longer to find a match than survivor. East Coast, same times.

  • @PsychoTron said:

    As a general rule that is what I've been led to believe. But I keep getting teammates adamant on healing me and others even with mangled status. Gens don't get done, people get too many hook states and die, game over.

    1. Run to the corner of the map furthest away from other survivors when Legion uses his power and is chasing you.
    2. Start mending right in front of Legion. If the Legion is bad, he will cancel his power. If he does, begin looping him. If he doesn't, mend up.
    3. Do a 360 right before he hits you, this may cancel his power.
    4. Wait at a pallet after he uses his power and starts chasing you. Let him hit you, then drop the pallet. It will cancel his power, then you can loop him like normal.

    ***The best thing to do against Legion is stop him from using his power. Even if he downs you, after cancelling his power, it means that 3 other team mates didn't lose a health state. 5 health stats is worse than 2 health stats.

  • @Edgars_Raven said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316874#Comment_2316874

    Survivor basics such as?

    He gets everyone injured quickly then is an m1 killer when getting the second hit. He also has good map presence because he can literally run to gens which elevates him above more basic m1 killers like mike, clown and trickster (dont get me started on trickster).

    Trapper is a little different because it depends on how well the team is coordinated. Trapper can lockdown an area, but good teams can easily counter that, where as with legion as the map gets smaller the survivors have a harder time staying uninjured and if youve been getting rid of pallets around your 3 gen thats a dangerous spot to be in no matter how coordinated you are.

    I think any of the movement killers tend to already have an advantage, so you are right about Legion. However, Clown also can move across the map really quick with the buff he got and he has 2 different anti-looping abilities now.

  • @selflessnea said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316851#Comment_2316851

    I dont know man. All I know is that once I stopped looking at ranking I started to enjoy the game more

    The pip-system for DBD makes absolutely no sense and does nothing to indicate good team play. It should be based on 2 kills/2 survives.

    However, I'm with you, ignore the ranking system and you'll have more fun.

  • Trickster and Trapper need buffs. The other 3 are C tier which is fine and I would argue the Clown might be a B tier.

    D Tier and S Tier need either buffs or nerfs. S Tier is Nurse, Spirit and Blight. Nurse just needs a straight up rework.

  • @AVoiceOfReason said:

    Do you think it would be balanced? Maybe fun? Big combo plays? Let me know what you guys think.

    I think we should actually have half-perks slots for really bad perks like Solidarity and Monstrous Shrine. If a perk is in the bottom 90% of perk usage, it becomes a half-perk. You can use 2 half-perks in 1 perk slot.

  • @zarr said:

    If you can at all manage to, please record some of these games where you feel that you have trouble dealing with survivors "holding W". It's difficult to say what you could do better without that, and for me personally all the more so because I have a hard time seeing how that tactic would even work out in any consistent fashion like people are making it out to.

    Mindbreaker is not an awful perk ever since it got buffed, and it can pretty much counter Sprint Burst on its own. To counter Spine Chill, try looking away from a gen when you are approaching it. It's silly to do the crab walk I know, but it works. Also, if you have someone on a hook and survivors do the run away early thing and have a lot of distance on you, just go back to the hook periodically ("proxi-camping"). If they want to "abuse" distance by running early, use that against them by pushing them off gens while simultaneously having the hook timer tick down.

    And to your question of "do I just play blight forever?", I do have to say that a totally valid answer could be "yes". Some killers in this game are clearly stronger than others, and there is no reason not to always play them. Not only that, but most of the stronger killers have very rewarding and engaging gameplay and a high skill ceiling that allows you to keep practicing and improving even after months and years of playing them. Believe it or not, there are people that have been maining Nurse ever since she first released and still do. It's not like a killer like Myers or Clown has anything going for them that makes them particularly compelling or riveting to play, so one can totally just... forgo playing such killers in favour of killers like Blight. That's not to say it's impossible to succeed with lower-tier killers such as Myers or Clown - far from! -, but the performance potential of a killer like Blight is obviously much higher. I do think a fair few of those lower-tier killers should be buffed, but I never got the thing where people knowingly pick one of the weaker killers and then are upset if they don't manage to do well all the time. Just pick and practice one of the stronger killers and play them all the time, it's a win-win.

    Nurse, Spirit and Blight are all probably close on the nerfing-block. (I'm honestly surprised Nurse has lasted so long).

    Trapper, K-Pop Killer are probably close on the buffing-block.

  • @TumbleElf said:

    You may know that In the 5th anniversary stream announced a change to keys (they will be changing them to make them more balanced, or reword them in general, we don't know)

    I would like to know your ideas on the upcoming key change! (What do you want the keys to be)

    Thanks!

    I don't think the question is how we rework/nerf keys.

    I think the question really is, how do you nerf killers for the extra kills they will be getting on top of their 60% kill rate, from the removal of the hatch and keys.

  • @DwarvenTavern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316418#Comment_2316418

    How? At best you made me walk into a wall, that's all. May I ask where you got this... falsified tip at? Because it doesn't waste as much time as normally looping would be, trust me. I know this..

    I do not have raw data, so this is theory-crafting. (Since you are also theory-crafting too without data to back up your assumption, I think this is fine). Also to note is the fact that I don't think this is true of every killer or even half the other killers, just Killers that have several anti-looping abilities. For example: Nemesis can hit through pallets, has a ranged attack, can hit over short walls, can hit through windows and can break pallets almost instantly with his power.

    This is also based off a red-rank 1 Nemesis player.

    So on average, you are going to get hit through a loop wasting at least some of your 3 seconds of speed from a hit, every 2nd or 3rd time you loop him (Because he has several anti-looping abilities). Also, you are probably going to loop the killer, relatively closer to the center, so it will allow the killer to get to the next chase quicker.

    Now, again theory-crafting, if you run toward a corner, furthest away from your team mates, throwing pallets down between you and the Killer, then you are going to get much further with your 3 seconds of speed from a hit, which also means more time for the killer to catch you. Also, it is going to take the killer much longer to get into a chase, because you ran directly opposite from your team-mates (because you no longer have to worry about running toward pallets or windows). It's also going to make it easier for survivors to rescue you since you're off in the corner of the map. And it prevent the killer from camping you and a half done gen.

    The true test of either of these ideas would be to go against a tier 1 Nemesis. 5 times just running straight to the furthest corner (To the next furthest corner if you still have the speed boost or a health state) and seeing how long it takes to get back to the other survivors. 5 times looping the killer and seeing how long it takes to get back to the other survivors (Not including the killer shack loop).

    I'm almost positive that the straight run is going to be more time wasted for the killer than the looping.

  • @DwarvenTavern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316200#Comment_2316200

    I gotta digest this.

    1.) Don't just run in a straight line, duck and dive if possible, I remember having this debate with Coal. If you make them miss, you have almost three seconds to get some distance. Him missing a punch is significantly quicker than him missing a whip. So if he only whips, use that to your advantage and waste his time.

    2.) When it comes to the pallet, it prioritizes someone who's on the other end of the pallet, zombie or survivor, it doesn't hurt and break the pallet at the same time. It seemed like poor wording, but I said this nonetheless just incase you think that.

    3.) No it doesn't hit through walls, but it can hit over them, so crouch.

    4.) It's significantly harder to hit these then Huntress or Pyramid Head's in terms of hit boxes, so while it does seem he doesn't have delay, he certainly does. That, and it takes three hits instead of two. So you have a free sprint burst with only .25 "seconds" of hindrance.

    5.) If it's easy for you to dodge Huntress' hatchets while you believe she has more, why is it impossible to train yourself to essentially go against a Huntress with unlimited hatchets since that's what Nemesis essentially is.

    6.) Again, don't do that thing you just said. You only really do that if they're faaarrr back, but if they're gaining on you, don't just quit and keep running in a straight line.

    You can do everything you are talking about but why? Running away from him in a straight line to the corner is going to be far more effective and waste more of Nemesis' time than trying to loop him.

    ***In very very limited situations, like the killer shack, looping him would be more effective.

  • @Hannacia said:

    When i play as killer only reason for me to do tunneling or facecamping is

    1 If you have a key, I dont like key users

    2 You were being toxic to me (macro flashlighting, buttdancing /teabagging or just pointing at me and being this im pro come at me survivor)

    3 There was 1 gen left or door were open already

    Even saying all this i never facecamp. I might walk around near the person being hooked but i dont stand infront of you hitting you with my weapon. Also dont call me a tunneler if you get off the hook and run to my lap or i see you again. Of course im going to take you down. If i hit you down instantly after getting off the hook i'll give you a chance and leave you on the ground. If noone saves you in few minutes after i've left you there well then that's on your teammates.

    Usually im the nice killer and i ruin myself trying to play by the books. If theres afker or dcer i let the last person go.

    This is how I play killer. Except I could give a rats-butt about camping a survivor with a key. I just don't see keys as a problem. Also, I'll avoid going after butt-dancing, flash-light clickers. They're trying to disrupt my concentration, so the best play is avoid them till the end because they end of wasting more of the other survivors time than actually doing anything.

    If there's a beginning game DC, I'm going to play really easy against the survivors and will let one of them go at the end, unless I forget or the 3 survivors are just freaking way out-classing me, then I'll try-hard.

  • @DwarvenTavern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2315917#Comment_2315917

    Huntress and Pyramid Head exist, why is now all of sudden that Nemesis suuuckks to go against? I don't nearly see as much belly aching for those two then I do for Nemesis and those two have been out for much longer.

    It's just be "new killer frustrating, help me syndrome" it happens to many people, but eventually.. we all adapt. I say all loosely though. Not saying you're one of them, but there are just some people who will sit there and beg for nerfs.

    I'm just saying that running in a straight line is the best strategy again Nemesis because he invalidates looping so efficiently. He can hit through windows and pallets. And if he hits you through a pallet, he also breaks the pallet. Can he also hit through walls?

    Pyramid Head does about the same but at least has a slight delay, where you can see where his power is able to hit. Huntress isn't that big of a deal because she runs out of hatchets. Nemesis and Pyramid Head never run out of their power, so why try and loop them when running in a straight line is more efficient? In fact, you pretty much can't loop either one of them, so why do it.

  • @GeneralV said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316058#Comment_2316058

    Yeah, right... 10 pallets to 7 pallets. "Fun".

    And no, the nerf did not improve the fun of playing as or against him. And I play this killer almost exclusively.

    The "nerf" that removed Freddy's invisibility. It ended up being a complete rework but it was brought about because it was not fun to play against for survivors.

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