Munqaxus
Munqaxus
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@Labrac said:
SBMM on a still unbalanced game was a mistake. Sure you can still hold your own on high MMR but for that to happen you have to resort to unfun and unskillful tactics like proxy camping and tunneling. Not even mentioning that for survivors it's way more efficient to literally just run forward and keep pushing gens than it is interacting with the killer. I can keep an average of 2k or even 3/4ks just straight up camping and tunneling everyone and using NOED, but where's the fun and skill on that?
Scrap the system, balance the game around the fun and skillful aspects (chases, killer-survivor interaction) and then add it again, because right now it feels you're punished for getting better on the game.
What I don't understand is BHVR actually give you the ability to play at any skill level you want to play at. If you want to play for fun, then you can play for fun and SBMMR will balance the game around you?
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546313#Comment_2546313
Maybe that's your exp. but when I tried new killers or killers that my MMR should be more lower(for example, legion) I would still get basically the same kind of players and same kind of copy paste game, some people like you claim that the MMR is working for their lowest mmr killers, some of them, like me, having a different experience of still having tough matches with their "supposed to be" weaker killers.
What do you mean when you say you are having "tough" matches. How many average kills / escapes are you getting?
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2542529#Comment_2542529
Aim for one thing but hit something else? This reminds me of a quote.
"Shoot for the stars but if you happen to miss shoot for the moon instead"
Actually, they are getting about a 60% win rate. So they hit that target about perfectly, it's at 65%.
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@latinfla4 said:
Escaping or killing survivors dont indicate skill in this game.
Noed kills, camping hooks, etc. dont show killer skill.
Hiding and escaping dont show survivor skill.
A good killer gets multiple hooks and pressures survivors.
A good survivor loops for long chases or does plenty of gens.
Should these be the new mmr standards? Any thoughts?
I think the current system is working fine. However they have it setup seems very fair.
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@Nathan13 said:
As a stranger things fan yes, but at the same time probably not so much when I'm playing as killer.
H3ll No
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546288#Comment_2546288
The solution to the problem is a tough one, since this game balancing is surely intended for old ranking system purple ranks, maybe even a bit of green ranks(when played in true matching skill and not boosted).
The state of the game right now in high ranks is this - play a strong anti loop killer, be a truly master of his power and maybe then you'll might get a win.(if you wanna play fair and hook 3 people in turns, if not just tunnel straight away).
I would suggest for all players here, instead of the devs(cause they don't care) to take my advice and if they're in a medium/low mmr right now, start practicing on 1 viable killer that is considered strong and is fun for them to play, so when they'll reach high MMR they'll might have a chance to win some games.
Since each killer has a different power levels, you can play any killer and hit a ceiling with that killer. The good thing about MMR is if you have a weaker killer, then you will always go against survivors at that skill level. I think MMR actually fixes a lot of problems with their system. I play Trapper a lot and he's considered a weak killer. With MMR, I will always be placed against survivors that will challenge me but won't totally decimate me every game.
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@Wedeguy said:
Hi guys,
After playing killer in high MMR(I mean only seeings 4 gamers join my lobby at once, almost all the time, 1.5k hours -6k hours each, avg of 2.5k hours usually as I've tested) I've come to some realizations, as I'm a 50/50 player and sometimes was a survivor main.
- Playing killer became truly unfun, no matter if I ended chases quick(quick for strong survivors as i mentioned moves between 40-60 seconds), by the time I hooked them and went for some gen pressure, I would had lost 2 gens. If the chase was longer than that(which is possible, survivors are good), I would had lost 3 gens.
- Pressuring other players and dropping the first chase if it's too long isn't a good idea in high MMR, all of them can play the game(most of the time) pretty well, considered they all have quite some hours and they can all run you for a bit. THERE IS NO WEAK LINK in higher MMR.
- You must be a master of one Killer. In the previous ranking system, I enjoyed playing many killers and I became pretty good with them, which borught me nice results. Now, In high MMR, if you're not REALLY good with one killer's specific anti loop power, you're gonna struggle. be a master of one if you wanna try and compete in this level.
- Which brings me to the next point, most M1 killers are not viable in HIGH MMR. I consider myself a good M1 killer but when I played pig, even with dashes and all her stuff, I get stumped by good survivors, they know how to counter m1 killers easily in most maps.
- Master a killer who is viable, my blight is good, but since I don't know too well how to hug tech, Z flick and do more techs well, good survivors stomp me because they know how to handle normal good blights. become a master of a viable killer, if you master a deathslinger, you're gonna get stomped cause they will hold W and pre drop strong pallets until you lose, for example.
- Not only that there's no weak links in chase, because they're good survivors, they know how to be efficient on gens and really crush you. I never resorted to tunneling or camping because I find that gameplay boring, but it looks as a neccisity now tbh. ruin undying would get cleansed really fast in high mmr.
I can continue with more points but this post is already long enough, about the second part of the title:
If you've seen Otzdarva's last "Best Build for every Killer" video, you would see that almost all his builds are the same. Ruin+Pop+Corrupt and something for info with slight varities. this is a silent message for the devs I believe, that in high MMR you gotta have some stacked slowdown gens/crutcs one shot perks like Devour in order to stand a chance.
This is not fun since it renders most perks of the game useless. the other tactic is to tunnel and camp and tbh after playing killer in high MMR, I would never blame killers for doing that again, I truly understand why you're doing that. I won't because it's boring but understandable.
Sorry for the long post, hope you get some intake from it.
So what would you suggest? I guess the developers can add bots so you can play against them?
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546021#Comment_2546021
Getting 2 kills via face camping is probably never going to result in high mmr. Rofl. I love the vote of confidence, however.
But lets be honest. Face camping nets a Killer 3 to 4 kills most matches, so they will move up in MMR.
I was playing with a SWF, with a toolbox and Prove Thyself. We saw a Bubba take a survivor all the way to a basement in the two story building in the swamp. We knew immediately that the Bubba was face camping. We did only gens and didn't attempt to save the survivor. The survivor struggled the entire time. By the time we powered the gates, the survivor died and Bubba came out of the basement and got a second survivor and face camped.
In close to one of the most optimal situations, Bubba was able to get 2 kills by doing absolutely nothing but face-camping. So basically, if any survivor makes a mistake, doesn't have gen speed-up abilities or even goes to check on a face-camping victim, then the Killer is going to get at least 3 kills if not 4.
It's a tactic a 10 year old can pull off, yet it will push them up in MMR way further than some above average skilled killers can go.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544795#Comment_2544795
U know u can face camp 2 guys with 2 hook plays (one at the beginning and second after 5gen pop) or your statistics just count kill rate and not hooks? Lost of survivors complain they are either tunneled or face camped during game. And killers complain they need to play dirty. How u can be sure game is balanced?
Why shouldn't face camping 2 people to death not be considered kills. The killer worked the entire match to get those kills. Those type of killers should be pushed up in MMR so that they face players that can deal with that type of play.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544788#Comment_2544788
- Already an upgrade over hex perks. You can pick a hidden spot rather than something out in the open, easy to see.
- Only takes 15-20 seconds (I think) to bless. Not very long.
- But they can be relit.
- Survivors have Maps and Totem Aura perks to help them find totems super easily.
- Survivors are notified when they’re under the effect of a hex.
In summary, survivors have easier ways to counter hexes than killers do for boons. FACTS.
Do survivors have Ruin
Do survivors have NOED
Do survivors have Haunted Ground
In summary, Killers have hexes that do insanely powerful effects that affects the entire map, when duplicated 5 times with Undying, you suddenly have a seriously unbalanced game.
You do see how how having Ruin, NOED or Haunted Ground which effects the entire map duplicated 5 times is entirely different than having a medkit that only affects a small area.
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@GeneralV said:
At the very least, Undying reduced the amount of camping and tunneling for most of the community and gave survivors an actual reason to go after totems.
MoM was just plain broken.
There is a difference.
So Killers didn't need to camp and tunnel to win the game. They were just given a win.
Now Killers need to camp and tunnel to secure a win. Seems like the real loser here are the survivors.
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@ShakeyGames said:
Before I began levelling up Laurie, every time I got tunnelled I was like "Damn, this is why DS is meta!"
Now that I have unlocked DS, I don't think I actually have even been able to use it, ever. It's either because the killer decided to tunnel me 61 seconds after I got unhooked because they didn't find me, or I touched a gen and forgot that it deactivates the perk.
Even if I was able to use it, I would use it a very little amount of times. It's such a situational perk that uses up a precious perk slot. Why is it meta?
Decisive Strike isn't meta.
Tunneling and Camping are meta. Decisive Strike is an answer to Killer game play.
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@AgustinPichi2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544752#Comment_2544752
Yes, but (maybe I'm wrong, I don't have 8000hours or anything) Genrush, If you separate the word It means Rushing gens, that could also include:
- Not purifying totems , and that could mean eating a noed, so at the end idk why It would be the killer's fault instead of the survivor's for not cleansing It.
- Not healing and cry because you got down to quick
Ok, I guess this is the question then. What is the difference between survivors regular game play and survivors genrush game play.
What makes the 2 different? A survivor working gens is normal game play. A survivor bringing a toolbox into a game is normal game play. 2 survivors bringing a toolbox into a game is normal game play. Where does normal survivor gameplay turn into survivor genrushing game play.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544795#Comment_2544795
It’s not 65% because killers are over performing, it’s 65% because survivors make mistakes or get too cocky.
65% is still 65%, no matter how the survivors play or killers play.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544774#Comment_2544774
Even experienced killer players that I watch on stream can struggle to get a hook before 2-3 gens pop. The game isn’t even balanced right now for 2K/2E.
Some “stats” that show more than 50% kill rates are very misleading. Perks like NOED can secure endgame kills when they aren’t deserved. Survivors can get too altruistic. Survivors try to wait around the hook to get saves instead of rushing gens… the list goes on.
If survivors are efficient, there is no reason they shouldn’t get at least 2 escapes every time.
Kill rates are at 65% last time I checked 2 weeks ago. So you are right, the game isn't balance for 2 kills / 2 Escapes.
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@Rey_512 said:
Remember the nerf to Hex Undying? This was the statement released by the developers:
”Transferring the same Hex multiple times can get out of hand: Hexes are meant to be strong perks that can be destroyed, and having to destroy the same Hex four times can be a bit much.”
In the September developer update, the devs describe Boon Totems as “much like Killers Hex Totems” in that they “are tied to Survivor Perks”. I know some people love to be technical and claim that by saying “much like” it shouldn’t be taken as a direct comparison. Well that’s wrong. Keep reading.
So obviously they are trying to create the survivor equivalent of Hex Perks here. We have a couple of perks to start, but more will come with the potential of game breaking effects (unlimited Unbreakable for the whole team within the aura?). However, we all know that even if a killer snuffs out a Boon Perk it can be relit indefinitely by the survivors. So where’s the consistency?
If you (BHVR) thought it was “a bit much” that FOUR survivors, who already have access to totem-finding perks and Maps, have to cleanse 4 totems then why is it not “a bit much” for ONE killer player to have to scour a map to snuff out a totem that can just be relit?
If BHVR wants to introduce new mechanics (Boon Totems) with strong effects that shake up the meta that’s great! But it would be nice if the survivor bias and hypocrisy wasn’t so apparent.
Boons are completely different from Hexes. You can't compare the two as if they are the same thing. It's like comparing an apple to an orange.
Boons
- Any totem can be selected to be a Boon
- Boons do not start at the beginning of the match
- Boons can be destroyed in 1 second
- Boons make a loud chiming noise within 28 meters so the Killer can easily find them.
- Boon notify the killer when they are made.
Just because you add "totem" at the end doesn't make them the same thing. Saying there is hypocrisy in balancing makes absolutely no sense.
You realize that Hex: Undying was nerfed because Ruin and Devour Hope existed. Boons don't have Ruin or Devour Hope like effects. Now if the developers made a Boon that made all gens speeds go faster. Or if the developers made a Boon that let you Mori a Killer, then you would have a point.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2542809#Comment_2542809
Your logic is outstanding, my guy. Calling killers entitled when your post is literally entitlement.
Basically saying survivors should all have the game handed to them because the enjoyment of 4 players is more important than 1 (the killer).
You are the one saying that Killers should be handed 3 kills per every 1 escape. The is the very epitome of Entitlement.
2 kills / 2 escapes is exactly even and considered a draw.
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@AgustinPichi2 said:
Why the killer's tactic bad? It's the same as genrush no?
Genrush means to quickly finish the gens to do your objectives.
Tunneling is killing people quickly to finish his/her objectives.
Normally people say that when you tunnel someone they don't play the game, so my question is What is to play the game? Is it just repair a motor 80seconds 5 times to finish the game?
People say that when you tunnel their game finishes quickly and they don't have chance to play, but when you genrush, survivors finish quickly the game, so isn't that the same? There are videos in youtube where the 5 gens pop up in 3 minutes. But when that happens people see it as a strategy, but If it was the other way, the killer killing all 4 in 3 minutes It would be toxic?
Genrush does not mean to quickly finish gens. It means that you have a SWF group that all bring BNPs, Prove Thyself and other gen speed up perks while ignoring hook survivors to finish gens.
People really need to understand the definitions for these things. Doing gens is part of the game, it's up to the Killer to manage gen speeds by running survivors off of gens, hooking survivors and bringing in perks to slow down gens if needed.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2542377#Comment_2542377
So it shouldn't be balanced at all then? I rarely ever complain on these forums. When I argue with people this right here is what I am arguing against. No, I will not play a game where the killer stomps every game because "it's the power fantasy role!!!"
I mean, what's the point. If a Killer was able to always get 3 or 4 kills every game, why would you want to play it as Killer. There's no skill required at that point.
This is a competitive game and what competitive game do you know of where one side is stacked against another. It would be like going to a weight lifting contest, yet your bar is 20 pounds lighter than your opponents. Or going to a baseball game and your team doesn't count foul balls or strikes against them.
I can't even begin to understand the thinking here.
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@slendermansmoom said:
old undying even as a survivor main i know that boons are unfair
As a person that plays both sides, boon totems are fine. Killer mains are making them out as if they are the second coming of Christ, just like they did "Lucky Break". And look how used "Lucky Break" is now. That's right, zilch.
Let me put this in context. Circle of Healing is a totem version of a medkit. Is any rational survivor, who is playing to win, going to give up Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, any Endurance perk, Unbreakable, Iron Will, Adrenaline or Prove Thyself. Why would you give up a perk slot when you can just slot an item for healing or walk over to a teammate.
Shadow Step may be used just because there are so many Killer aura reading perks and the only perk to address that on the survivor side is Distortion. But then again, a killer not being able to see auras, doesn't really handicap a Killer to much either.
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@Pulsar said:
Old Undying is more fair currently.
Sure, it COULD take 5 cleanses, but it usually didn't and you could ALWAYS permanently destroy it.
Boon totems cannot be destroyed and can always be replaced. The Killer has no way to stop them permanently.
Thwt being said, they are both massively unfair.
So, do you think it would be more fair that Boon-Totems spawn at the beginning of the match, exactly like Hex-Totems. That Boon-Totems make sub-audible crackling sound exactly like Hex-Totems. Survivors can see the Boon-Totem, just like Hex-Totems. And that the Killer can break them, just like Hex-Totems.
I bet Killers don't want that at all, do they?
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2542298#Comment_2542298
So you’d prefer 8 hooks and 0 kills over 7 hooks and 2 kills? Interesting.
Back to the OP, the balance should be 3 kills (preferably at least 9 hooks) and 1 escape TBH. Killer is supposed to be the power role and survivors should be scared of the killer. This may be an unpopular opinion, but escaping so be a thrilling experience because you outlasted a horrifying situation, not basically a guarantee if you have a good team. Instead we have t-baggers at the exit gates clicking flashlights. Playing survivor doesn’t feel like I’m playing a “survivor”, it feels like I’m playing Pallet Loop Simulator.
Wow Killers are so fraking entitled.
Did you even think about this before you typed it. You have 4 players one 1 side and 1 player on the other side in a competitive game. Do you not think that 4 human beings probably don't want to play a competitive game where the game is literally stacked against them so hard that it's 3 loses to ever 1 win.
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@R2k said:
Hello fellow survivors, please stop relying on your perks and actually learn to play. Bringing up DS DH BT and coms every game won't make u any better, so stop abusing it.
Yes, it makes the game more challenging, but who wants easy games every time? And you DON'T have to win every match you play! Sometimes, I have more fun in the matches that I lose because the killers looped me well and I actually had to try in order to escape.
Did i miss something? 😂
You know it was a Killer player that said this, not a survivor player.
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@Mistikus said:
chpter will be out people will play with boon totems for 2 weeks max and then killers will be still crying that survivor meta dont chage for years
Exactly this. Look at the stupid buff for "Lucky Break". Killers were bawling because of the buff to "Lucky Break". The Devs weaken the buff and NOBODY plays "Lucky Break".
No one would have played "Lucky Break" even if the Devs didn't weaken the buff. These boon totems take a second to destroy and I guarantee no one will use them AT ALL after the 2nd week. Then everyone can go back to complaining how the survivors only use Meta perks again.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510480#Comment_2510480
You don't need all that to gen rush.
Solos without toolboxes can and will gen rush.
A survivor who gets off the hook and goes for a gen instead of healing, is gen rushing.
That's not gen rushing, that's called playing the game.
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@Underdawg said:
TLDR; There is no point in being so sweaty, caring about having high MMR, or trying to "win" every trial.
A lot of people don't like the new SBMM system. As best as I can tell, people are caught in some endless cycle of sweat. Survivors gen rush because they think the Killer will tunnel them out of the game as soon as possible. Survivors bring the strongest perks to combat this. Killers tunnel and play mercilessly because they feel like the game will immediately slip through their fingers if they don't. They bring the strongest slowdown/insurance perks to help them. People are using their strongest builds. Both sides cry that the other side is too sweaty. Both sides are right.
Here's the rub: This isn't a problem of Behavior's creation. We did this. We convinced ourselves that “efficiency” was the goal of the game. How many times have the Killer mains on this forum said that tunneling is the most efficient way to “win” a match? How many times have Survivor mains complained about their teammates “not doing gens”? What did we expect? Behavior didn't explicitly state a “win” condition, so we went about creating one. 4K or 3K and hatch as Killer. Escape at all costs as survivor. “Don't bring that perk, it isn't efficient!” we told ourselves.
With the old rank system, we had shiny badges “I'm a red rank, what rank are you bro?”. As far as I can tell, there are people who want to be told how MMR is measured simply because they need a shiny badge as validation. Tangible evidence on how good they are at this game; in some ways a symbol of superiority. But that doesn't exist anymore. (Coincidentally, I see a trend in using “hours played” as replacement for this – despite the fact that time spent doing something is not an accurate measurement of actual skill in doing said thing. While there is a correlation between how long you do something and how skilled you are at it, it's not 1:1. Some people pick things up faster. Some people plateau quicker)
So seeing as the new grade system is mainly a measure of how much time you've been playing in a month, and our MMR is hidden from us, what exactly is the motivation to sweat? What is the motivation to attain high MMR?
“I like to win. I play games to win.”
Fair enough. But if the only way you get enjoyment out of this game is winning every match (or having a high win rate), then I genuinely feel sorry for you. I don't mean that in a condescending manner at all! I feel sorry for you because it seems that the Dev don't want anyone to have a high “win” rate. They want you to average somewhere around 2k or a 50% escape rate. I imagine that must be frustrating to be told that you're only going to have your definition of fun 50% of the time – but understand that this misery is of mainly of your own creation.
Any time I'm playing killer and a SWF squad gen rushes and leaves in 5 minutes, I shrug it off and think to myself “Enjoy the games against Spirit/Nurses/Blights”. Anytime a killer tunnels me out of the game, and destroys the rest of my teammates before we've even done 2 gens, I shrug it off and think to myself “Enjoy the SWF sweat squads”.
You want to “win” every match? That's fine. Eventually you'll be put against people who feel the same way – and play in the same “efficient” manner. You can't eat your cake and have it too. If you play sweaty, or have played sweaty enough in the past to earn high MMR then this is the new reality for you. If you want to play chill, then play chill. Stop caring so much about “winning”. When you “lose” a match, you don't actually “lose” anything. There is no actual tangible reward to having high MMR!
There are a lot of things about this game that Behavior should be (and hopefully are) working on fixing. Our individual attitudes and competitive nature are not on that list.
100% this.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510352#Comment_2510352
I've never seen a gen rusher complain about gen rushing. Since there are so many of them, I suppose they like holding m1.
That's because gen-rushing is when you have a 4 man SWF, all with toolboxes and BNP and leadership. So there's really hardly any of those. Where as face-camping/proxy-tunneling is about every game now.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Kill rate of 70%~80% here and I don't tunnel. Majority of my matches I get 3/4 BBQ stacks before hooking somebody the 2nd time.
I've kept track of my kills/escapes and it's hovering around 62%, killer favored.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Well, Sluzzy's got a point there. The huge queues on high SBMM prove that climbing up MMR is way easier at killer than at survivor. If the game is killer or survivor sided is another discussion because it doesn't revolve only around high MMR, but the fact is against a lot of killers only 4 man SWFs can compete against, and on a game where the majority of the survivor playerbase plays on solo/duo I highly doubt people who say "killer is sooo hard".
Imo, stacked active slowdowns should be looked at.
I agree with you. The queue times for Killer are massive, which indicates that there's a whole lot of Killers or there's a large amount of Killers at my rank.
If the top half of MMR is only a few SWFs and the bottom half is a large amount of mostly Solos, then that shows that the majority of survivors can't compete at the same level as the majority of killers.
Longer queue times for the majority of killer players because there's only a few SWFs out there that can compete. While solo survivors are only able to compete against noob killers.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510429#Comment_2510429
Too much work to change the game to make it balanced when they can just... Not.
Ain't that the truth. :)
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510380#Comment_2510380
Yep, well said. It really does seem like a lot of killers feel like getting a 4K every game is balanced. I really don't understand these people. I consider a 2K a good game. 🤷
That's what I'm getting from the obvious Killer mains on the forum. It's like they expect to get 4k every game with a possible 3k "loss" every once in a while. Might as well put survivor bots in the game if that's what you are expecting.
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@Sumnox said:
I have had the exact same experience. I made a thread about it as well. Killers were always campy and tunnelly, but ever since the DS destruction and very specifically the new rank system, it is literally a nightmare. Every - single - game without an exception it's camp and tunnel. I have played 9 games today, and in 7 of them I got facecamped and tunnelled after being BTed without an exception. In the other 2 it was my friend (we were a duo) being facecamped and tunnelled. This is the same as the previous days, every single match someone got camped and tunnelled, 100% of the matches.
This made me stop playing today and I'm going to take a break from the game. I can't be bothered to be tunneled and face camped every single match I play.
My guess is that face-camping/proxy-tunneling has gotten so bad that it will force the developers to do something. Survivors players aren't even getting to play the game, it's so bad.
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@Artemisha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510411#Comment_2510411
I played Smite ranked and casual. On conquest casual we had the same rules, but people used to have another mentality. They played there to prove builds, characters or simply because they wanted to play chill. Of course there were some people going very serious, but it was a small percentage.
League of Legends has a casual mode and it feels exactly the same as ranked. The only reason players play casual mode on LOL is so they don't see their rank.
Well DBD doesn't show a rank anyway, so it shouldn't matter.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510316#Comment_2510316
Then maybe BHVR should fix their bullshit map designs. Their bullshit gen speeds. So killers arnt really compelled to camp, tunnel, slug. So they have the luxury of having more then 4-5 chases before all gens are done.
Fixing gen speeds and map designs does not address proxy-tunneling/face-camping. In fact, gen speeds are fast because proxy-tunneling/face-camping exist.
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@Boss said:
Btw, what do people want to achieve with a casual mode?
Cause one thing i hear people want with that mode is that it'd be without ranking, which sounds insane to me as you'd essentially lump the ultimate sweat with the ultimate newb.
Absolutely this. What is "casual mode" suppose to be? If you want to play "casual" then play "casual" until your MMR is at a "casual" level. Unless players are just wanting to be put against noobs, which is what it seems like they are wanting. So play against bots. I just don't get it.
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@Hex_Llama said:
I've gone against a lot more tunneling and facecamping since MMR. I don't know if it's because I'm playing with different people or because people are playing differently.
In most of the games where this happens, the killer tunnels and camps one person and then plays fairly normally once that person's gone (which is also new for me -- in my previous camping games, the killer usually continued to camp people for the whole match). But, it seems like they're trying to eliminate one person to make it a 3v1.
As I was watching that happen a few times today, I tried to think of a solution and I couldn't. Any measure I could think of to stop tunneling and camping would be vulnerable to abuse -- even rewarding the first person who dies is vulnerable to abuse, because people sacrifice themselves on first hook. Then I thought "Maybe the game should just be 3v1," but then I thought, "No, 2 is going to be easier than 3, so they'll tunnel someone at 3, too."
The only thing I can think of is if survivors had some way to keep participating in the match after they were dead -- in which case getting killed right away wouldn't matter as much. But that would totally change the game.
I mean, isn't that kind of asinine. You face-camp/proxy-tunnel a survivor out of the game right at the beginning, the play the game normally, because you know you've won the game at that point. 3 survivors almost never can complete 3 gens or more.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510342#Comment_2510342
He said a game that is designed to have half of the people ALWAYS escape is nuts.
Well, how many should you be able to kill. The answer is either 3 or 4. (Since half is a bad answer)
What do you think the kill/escape rate should be? You are playing a competitive game, how would you balance it so that it's fair for all the players?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510333#Comment_2510333
Nobody said that.
He said 2 kills/2 escapes is nuts. Who wants a horror game where you get a 50% kill rate. Sounds pretty much like he wants 3 to 4 kills every game.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509260#Comment_2509260
Didn't they say they wanted games balanced around 2 kills and two escapes?
Which seems nuts to me because who wants a survival horror where 50% of the game is destined to escape by design. The play seems to represent this too...
When I play survivor I often don't even interact with the killer as they are hard tunneling two other survivors because if they don't we'll all get out, so you get 1-2K and 2-3 escapes aparently that's balance.
When playing killer I sweat like a beast to get close to a kill or two or I just have to meme around and accept that there is no threat to the other players at all from me.
Its almost as if matches are now designed that only 50% of players intereact for the game and you can choose to play it an dprobably die on hook or not to play it and just sit on gens till you walk out the door. Its an odd design and not much fun.
Why don't you just play bots if you want to get 4k every game.
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2508413#Comment_2508413
Okay to evade a hit is fine but what about to use it for distance?
It's fine because it only gives you 1 sec of distance instead of 3 seconds of distance. 1 sec of distance and a chance for an evade make up for the other 2 seconds of distance.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Make every map around the size of Coal Tower and Midwich. The biggest maps should only be the size of Ironworks at max.
It won't happen while Nurse, Spirit, Blight and Billy exist.
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@Jarol said:
Obviously I have said the harsh reality that killers live and even more with this MMR.
God, I'm tired of having to face the premades, having to endure click click with flashlights, see t-bags, spin the killer, etc.
Just admit it, the fear of the killer was lost and the survivors consider him a low-level player.
Dbd needs to remove the premades from public games.
You need an option where the killers choose to play public matches or play against premades. It would be fair but knowing the devs, they will do nothing about it, taking away the fun and happiness of killers players, promoting stress, anger and toxicity. So on, toxicity is created in this game.
Which has a solution but they do not want.
Honestly,
I think Killers should be afraid of the survivors. The survivors almost always win in horror movies and usually end up killing the Killer.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499198#Comment_2499198
So what if you get downed first early in the match and because you don’t like the killer you can just ######### right there? Survivors would abuse that hard.
Because survivors already DC off first hit or they suicide on hook. The only thing it would change is it would allow survivors out of a toxic match. I say, after 1 minute of being slugged, a survivor can suicide. That's the same time you can suicide on hook.
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I really like the Mettle of Man idea, that makes it counter an insta-down.
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@Potassium said:
we brought old ruin back?
it remove's it's inert synergy with tinkerer so and it goes back to being an early game perk
that way it gives the tool back to lower mobility killers and becomes a little less desirable for high mobility killers
as a nerf though , i'd ask for survivors not to be cursed while a generator is blocked to stop it from stacking with corrupt/
Yes, please bring old ruin back and get rid of current ruin.
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@Gaming_Gamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499036#Comment_2499036
What do you mean by the levels seem pretty consistent? SBMM doesn't use the grade system for matching so they in essence mean nothing to the players' skill level.
I would also disagree with your assessment that it doesn't look lopsided by scores. They look low to me. With those scores I would assume he didn't hook many survivors so he got low scores for not being able to down enough survivors and they got low scores because there wasn't much opportunity for altruism.
16k to 22k is about normal for a survivor escape scores. He also killed someone really fast.
The grade system isn't used by SBMMR, however the grade system does grade you on what it considers necessary for a win. So it can still be used a rough estimate of their skill level.
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@Advorsus said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3JTXN3WA2KQJ/img-20210915-003424884-7e2.jpg
Yup that's totally fair. Level 1 pig, 3 games played on her, this is how every match goes with any new killer I try.
How do you expect people to try new killers, or even new players to start playing this game???
I get that I have experience on other killers, but that doesn't translate to new killers. And yet you think it does for some reason. You think that because they all have basic attack abilities then it just translates into the same thing. But it's already been established many times, that just basic M1 killers don't do well unless they have a strong build/add-ons.
So my only option is to wait and farm up a megaton of BP to level up my new killers with before I even get to play them?
I'm not saying I should be going against newbies by any means. But I'm going against people with hundreds to thousands of hours, while I'm using a killer I have maybe 30 minutes on. These are the same type of survivors I'd play against my doctor. And out of the few hundred hours I put into the game, 90% of it was on doctor.
A year and a half, almost two years spent too accomplish nothing but longer queue times. Congrats
It's hard for me to tell what's going on here but from what I'm seeing is you are playing against 3 ash players and 1 bronze player while you are also an ash, so the levels seem pretty consistent. Also, the score seems pretty even across the board so the game wasn't crazy lopsided. What's the issue?
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2496931#Comment_2496931
If you think Proxy Tunneling is not optimal depending on situation. You simply don't play killer well.
You didn't read what I said. Proxy-tunneling is a skill that Killers learn when they first start the game. They learn it before they learn to use their own power properly. It's basically a crutch that Killers use and can lead to Killers not learning other more difficult skills that allows them to compete in higher ranks.
I mean, why learn how play against higher level survivors when you can use a no-effort skill that works on low level and mid level survivors. You're basically avoiding chases when you proxy-tunnel-off-hook, so all those chase skills you need against higher level survivors isn't there.
In the end, you are screwing yourself because you're elevating your level way beyond what it really is using a play-crutch. A killer is going to be very frustrated when MMR boosts them. Which is a lot of what I'm seeing now on the forums and with streamers.
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2496259#Comment_2496259
Then you guys, as survivors, are making mistakes. Balls in your court. Tunneling off the hook is 100% one of the best ways to win if the survivors don't properly counter it.
"you aren't developing the killer skills needed to handle high level play." Tell me you aren't a high level killer without telling me you're not a high level killer.
If survivors SEE someone just camping the hook, they go finish gens. They don't just sit behind a rock crouched waiting for the killer to maybe look around a little too far from the hook. I run Kindred 100% of my games. If I see a killer camping I go, "Well that sucks for that guy but I get two free gens out of it."
As a killer, tunneling out a weak link with enough gens left in the game, basically just wins you the game outright. Stop pretending like a killer is toxic for doing what they need to do to win. Like it or not, tunneling someone out of the game is one of those best ways. Camping a hook is just bad all around, it loses you the game instantly against any decent survivor. Proxy camping however, or tunneling, wins you more games than it loses assuming you know which survivors to target and do it properly.
Actually, it's the Killer's making the mistakes. They're just pushing themselves into a higher MMR with a low-skill strategy that will just leave them frustrated when it no longer works and they don't have the skills to survive at the higher levels.
Instead, they should be learning how to play without proxy-tunneling and face-camping, so when they do get to high levels, they'll have the skills they need to play at that level.
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@latinfla4 said:
As a survivor I understand why killers do it (1 in chase and 3 on gen means the killer usually loses even more with low mobility killers).
As a killer (when I get matches...some days I dont feel like waiting 15+ minutes) I will injure all of you as much as possible and tunnel the weak link as quickly as possible to make it a longer and fairer match.
What are your opinions? Do you see it more in both roles?
I don't get the proxy-camping-tunneling-off-hook meta that has developed after MMR. It was bad before, but now it's insane. That's all I get as survivor now. All those Killers are doing is making their games even more unfun by pushing themselves into high survivor ranks without having the skills to handle those high rank survivors. Let's face it, if you are proxy-camping-tunneling-off-hook (which is a really low-skill tactic that killers learn in ash/brown ranks), you aren't developing the killer skills needed to handle high level play.
I've been keeping track of the kills/escapes and it's actually worse for survivor than it was before MMR. The killers in my games are getting about a 75% kill rate now, where before it was closer to 60%.