MrPenguin
MrPenguin
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Yeah that's just as dumb as survivors who think tunneling is a reportable offense 🙄
I must have missed the contract in the patch notes lol.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507766#Comment_3507766
My complaint is the community's overall mindset that getting kills should be prioritized above all else. Yall focusing on one portion of what I said. It's the community mindset I have an issue with
Tbf its the same thing on the survivor side and one reinforces the other.
Gens get slammed so killers tunnel to keep up. Kills get slammed so survivors tunnel gens to keep up.
Unless both agree to not do that it won't stop.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3509697#Comment_3509697
Is that really comparable? A regressing gen can go back to zero, taking all progress with it. Survivors wont get a hookstate back, so the killer progress is permanent. For survivors its only with finished gens.
If you want compare the unfinished gen, then you should compare it to hit and run, because a survvior can completly heal from that.
But noone is expecting killers to do that, are they?
Yes.
A gen cant be regressed once its complete, the same way a chase time can't be extended once the survivor is hooked/dead. Both make the "checkpoint" of progression take longer.
It's a little different for both sides in the details since its an asym game, but both are easily comparable as they have equivalents on either side.
But trying to compare a locked in completion amount (hook state) to an incomplete one (an unfinished gen) is not the way to do it.
A hook state or kill is a completed gen. Which the killer also can't do anything about.
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@Orochi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3510084#Comment_3510084
Yeah, except Killers have a choice to not camp or turn back around the instant they hear the unhook, despite efficiency. Survivors do not have that freedom when working on gens.
Killers can still win by spreading hooks, Survivors can't work on a gen for 30% progress and go to the next one and repeat the process til 5 gens are done unless they want to lose. You simply stay on one gen as long as you can until it's done and then move to the next.
So no, your "tunneling gens" argument holds no water and if people really believe that it does, they are deluding themselves to validate their strategy. Tunnel all you want, but Killers comparing simply doing gens efficiently to tunneling to kill efficiently is reaching.
"Survivors can't work on a gen for 30% progress and go to the next one and repeat the process til 5 gens are done unless they want to lose. You simply stay on one gen as long as you can until it's done and then move to the next."
Replace that with killers and kills and you get the same conclusion.
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Unhealthy yes.
Unfair no.
As long as both sides can do it, it will be fair for both sides.
If you want to stop killers from focusing quick kills you also need to do something about survivors focusing quick gens.
Both are unhealthy, but neither are unfair due to the other also existing.
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I mean, yes that's how the perk works so can't prove you wrong on that lol.
But the effect itself is extremely strong. SWF can pretty much guarantee it. Otherwise its just more unreliable, but still strong. You can play a little more unhook proactive if you want to increase your odds.
That's similar to saying unbreakable is weak because the killer might not slug. Not being able to use it every single match does not mean it's weak.
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Agreed, remove the self unhook outside of perks. It's an unhealthy mechanic that allows the bypass of the DC penalty essentially for free.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481937#Comment_3481937
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481938#Comment_3481938
I tagged you both because I think this reply covers both comments because I think he said kind of similar things.
For the record, I don't think that streaks are a true indication of balance, general representation of public matches as a whole, or killer strength. I do think streaks can signal inbalance - which factor in add-ons. But also I didn't watch the clown streak, so I don't even know if the dude used pinky finger or not every match, so I don't even know if that's really even the case. I don't think it's that balanced of an addon as compared to the rest of his kit/addons, and much like tombstone/tombstone piece I think the existence of it actively hinders the possibility for either killer to get buffs that they need.
I do have an objection specifically with 'streak is a streak even if you manipulate MMR" though - because I wouldn't consider it a streak is, say, the guy deranked for hours on that killer offline. That's essentially what the guy who did the demo streak did, and when question about it he said "on steam streak". Which I think by definition is not a true streak at all.
But going back to MMR - I think MMR should have two jobs specifically: actually have a balance match, meaning you're put up of against opponents who are going to be either at your skill level or equipped to handle you (which would give a more normalized playing field and preventing someone from going on streaks like this), and to separate brand new players from everyone else (which, in general, it does, to a certain point). I actually think that MMR system itself is somewhat decent, and I understand their reasoning for kills/escapes being skill by proxy..... but it's pretty well known at this point that the cap is way too low and also that the system just throws the entire thing out to prioritize queue times. Which I also understand why they did, because no one should be waiting for hours for match, but at the cost of MMR not working properly, or as good as it can be.
I really do think that in the cases of these streaks right here from the op are entirely caused due to matchmaking issues. I do feel like you are sort of downplaying that, busted add-ons in the equation or not. There's no doubt in my mind. mmr malfunctioning is something I see anecdotally. I have close to 3,000 hours now in this game, 2000 of them are on killer, and I'm constantly matched with survivors who have less than 500 hours in the game that get absolutely decimated, and it's getting to the point where I don't even find the game fun to play that much anymore. But that's a rant for another day.
Also, edit, because I hit submit like a dummy immediately.
On MMR I agree completely, the cap is way too low. I believe I saw a statistic that said like 55% of the player base is at or above the soft cap and are all being matched together. That's way too much.
I'm sure the MMR issues like the soft cap definitely played a part.
You could still tank your MMR then start the streak and it would still count as manipulation imo. Since you'd be inflating what you would get otherwise. You could also use something to change you MMR that's not losing a match, like a certain MMR reset exploit.
My main point was that we have no way to know if they did it off stream or not unless they admit to it, like that one demo guy did. Whose to say others didn't do it too and just didn't speak up. It's not exactly about what we consider a fair streak or not, it's about not even knowing if those parameters got broken to begin with. So to us it would still be a streak even though it's really not.
In case its not 100% clear, I agree that that's not a "real" streak, just that we wouldn't know if that's happening. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
On the whole add-on thing, I was commenting on the arguments being made by others that a normal average killer is way stronger than they say because of win streaks before you jumped in/replied, and that's where using the" busted add-ons every match" came into the picture as that's not the norm. So if you believe it's not indicative of the general player base then that should be put to rest as we both agree on that point, and like I said before it can be evidence of a particular add-on being too strong so on that we also agree as far as I can see.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481900#Comment_3481900
I feel like people are uneccisarily gatekeeping what constitutes as a streak.
I can see the argument on the other page about 3 genning being hard nerfed, because doing a streak in that way is no longer possible.... But what would it matter if the clown ran pinky finger? Where are we drawing the line of what constitutes a valid streak, and why?
A streak is a streak, regardless of how it's done (whether you hard tunnel, use perks, use add-ons) - regardless of if you are talking about the general player base or not. And if we're talking about in general, big streaks also shouldn't even be a thing, anyways. So I'd honestly consider it part of balance, as well as MMR not working properly.
I mean, its still a streak, you just shouldn't use that to say "ah yes the average everyday player using normal add-ons is complaining too much because of this other person only using the best add-ons possible every match". A streak is a streak even if you manipulate MMR too, its just silly to use that to draw any conclusions about balance.
Lets assume it is pinky finger for sake of argument.
The same people who are saying "well its not a SWF every match" are also saying in essence "this 500 pinky finger Clown should be proof the average killer is stronger".
No, at most that's evidence that pinky finger is strong, not that Clown is a strong killer in general. But we already know that there's busted add-ons. Myers isn't considered strong because of tombstone is he? No he's considered bad. Same standard for streaks, not proof of a killers general strength or lack thereof. An exception, not the rule.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481590#Comment_3481590
Which is why I don't think it needs to be anything more than a passing mention.
We can't just assume every streak is bad.
Well no I didn't say that.
We just also can't assume every streak is legit. Reasonable doubt exist. If something looks odd, like Clown for example, then its reasonable to suspect somethings off unless somehow proven otherwise.
Maybe they were manipulating MMR, maybe they were running pinky finger every single match match, maybe both. Either one kinda voids the results to a degree, if not completely, when talking about the general player base and killer.
Just another reason why I don't think we should be taking win streaks for anything other than, as you put it, a passing mention. Cool trivia with no bearing on power of the overall role or balance.
Killers aren't stronger than perceived just because of win streaks as some have asserted in the thread. Maybe they are, but win streaks are not good proof at all.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481575#Comment_3481575
Sure, it's something to consider but unless someone cares enough to do the work, there's not much of a point to just talking about it.
Yeah, it could happen but we just don't know.
Well, that's all that was being said really, that its a consideration and we don't know.
I think believing all of them are 100% legit is a little naïve. But no one would truly know except the streak holder, who won't out themselves for obvious reasons.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481544#Comment_3481544
You'd have to lose the same amount of games as you won, if not more.
You really think someone who streams DBD for 8 hours is gonna spend another 6-8 hours de-ranking?
Even if they were, we could literally tell via Devotion level.
Like I said, you don't need to even be on the game so how much they already played the game doesn't really matter.
You're also assuming complete reset, they could always just drop their MMR some, not all the way, which would still make an impact.
Just saying its possible and not unheard of for people to fake records for clout.
Devotion could possibly be a clue, but afaik no one checked that and that also means they were not playing off stream at all.
Someone could bring up devotion and they could just say "oh yeah I played a few matches off stream on a different killer, so the streak still stands".
Again, we just have no way to know for sure. Now I'm sure there's legit ones in there, but there could also be fakes.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480434#Comment_3480434
Literally almost all of these are on-stream.
@lifestylee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480434#Comment_3480434
Alot of these streaks are on stream with 20+ games in a row, i dont think they lower their mmr. You dont have to find it impressive all tho it is difficult to get really high streaks i mostly just find them entertaining or educational.
Loss farm off stream?
Unless they leave their stream running with the game up throughout the entire streak, we have no way to know if they aren't farming losses off stream so when they "resume" their supposed streak their MMR has been massively lowered.
Even then you can play the menu footage on loop to game that system.
You don't even have to actively play the game, just boot up a match and go afk. You can even set it up to do it automatically while you sleep or go about your day.
At best we have their "word" but that's not saying much. I'd like to believe they're all legit but there's been many cases across the gaming scene where supposed records where manipulated in some way to be easier/longer than would be otherwise. I don't see why DBD would be an exception.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480266#Comment_3480266
I don't believe tunneling is OP. Survivors can win against a tunneling killer just fine if they're good.I agree on the concept, tunneling does have clear counterplay, though it creates its own problem. At low and mid MMR there are not a lot of players who are capable of the counterplay, while any killer regardless of skill can engage in camping/tunneling. So killers who do that vault up the MMR until they get matched against teams who can counter it, then they get crushed and complain about the game being broken.
So at no point of the experience are people really having fun.
"It's just really unfun, which is still a problem."
I pretty much said I agree lol, not sure if your just adding on or didn't read the full thing.. Yeah it's generally known that in low skill settings killers dominate and once survivors get competent it starts flipping.
Any killer can engage in tunneling sure, but any survivor can also just M1 gens and make them fly. Both sides strongest and unfun strat is kind of braindead unfortunately.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480266#Comment_3480266
For me they are both the strongest strategies for either side.
For killer, i would argue the best way to get consistent 4K is to hard tunnel a surv at 5 gens while using deadlock and pain res. Tunnel and proxy camp the hook and you will probably be in a 3v1 with 3 gens remaining. Slug the 3rd one bypassing hatch and you are good.
For survivor, the best way would be to bring 4 commodius + BNP and smash different gens while using PT on the last gen to power the gates at 4-5 min.
One of these is getting nerfed in a few weeks.
No I don't mean they're not the same as in they're not the strongest for either side, they are.
They're not the same as in gen rushing is more powerful than tunneling. We're at the point where a gen can be done in 40 seconds or less working on it solo.
Hopefully the nerfs bring it more in line.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480249#Comment_3480249
If we put something on the same level as current tunneling, then it will create its own set of problem. The main problem with tunneling is how most survivors arent able to deal with a killer hard tunneling at 5 gens thus it makes for an easy strat to use every game with every killer.
Take a look at the other side, genrush let's say. Survivors are not getting something "equally strong as a reward for not genrushing", they are getting a flat nerf to PT and a rework nerfing BNP because they cant possibly incentivate survivors to not bring 4 BNPs and smash gens in 5 minutes. With tunneling is the same.
I don't believe tunneling is OP. Survivors can win against a tunneling killer just fine if they're good. Maybe not Nurse and Blight, but that's a problem for those 2 not a general killer problem.
It's just really unfun, which is still a problem.
Gen rushing is the same in the sense that its the equivalent strategy on the other side, however the power levels are not the same.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480239#Comment_3480239
I disagree. Pain Res and No Way Out are literally 2 of the best perks in the game curently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3YNmVPmIeY). If they were made base kit, kill rates will literally skyrocket to above 85%. It would be like playing killer with 6 perk slots. This change isn't balanced and I only used it as an example to show that not tunnelling can be made strong.
If they were made base kit, I would stop tunnelling on most of the killers I play. Tunnelling is a risky strategy since you are betting on being able to tunnel a survivor out fast. Going the alternative route of getting value from Pain Res and No Way Out is much less risky and gives similar or better value. This is coming from someone who tryhards as much as possible to win and 3-4ks almost every match.
My solution relies on making not tunnelling an option that is equivalent or better to tunnelling, so tunnelling is no longer vastly the best option. You say my solution gives killers no reason not to tunnel but that's false. The reason not to tunnel would be to win, which is the strongest incentive.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479997#Comment_3479997
The specific examples are irrelevant. The important part is the general idea that killers need basekit help getting into a chase with a different survivor, that are reliable enough for killers to feel like it’s worth the risk of leaving a hooked survivor.
I agree 100%
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480163#Comment_3480163
The problem with that solution is that even while having those two perks basekit, tunneling is still the easiest most effective way to win a game in dbd. Meaning that everytime a killer maybe losing the game they will switch back to tunnel as you are not actively punishing it in any way.
Your solution relies on killers willingly choosing not to tunnel while having no reason not to.
You don't just need a small bonus effect to reward the killer for not tunneling, you need to make it large enough to offset and/or be better than tunneling. Removing one player from the game is huge, so you'd need something equally huge.
We can punish tunneling, but only if we also put something equally strong as a reward for not tunneling in its place at the same time, or buff killers/nerf survivors to compensate. But if we just made not tunneling superior then it shouldn't really be necessary as winning is the strongest incentive.
If you just punish tunneling and that's it then either A) killers will still tunnel just be worse at it or B) you'll be forcing 12 hook games or something similar while the game is not in a state to really facilitate that gameplay in any match with competent players actually trying to win and not goofing around (unless you're Nurse).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479873#Comment_3479873
Yeah, that's a swear not a slur. A slur is what you hear in a CoD lobby. You're choice of phrase was intentionally picked to evoke a reaction.
Yeah that comes off like a massive excuse. "Oh, sorry I four man slugged til bleedout, I was just playing to win, oops you're fault that you had a bad time"
Nobody is stopping you from tunneling off of first hook. Nobody is stopping you from grabbing 3 friends and slamming out gens in 4 minutes while t-bagging at the gates. You can play that way and be completely within the confines of the game.
It can be both. I gave you the definition itself, what you said falls under that quite easily as far as I see. It was not my intention to offend, I was just addressing what you said. I'll just say insult instead if that'll make it easier. There's no need for you to include insults into your arguments. They got addressed and called out for what they are, insults to a group of players just for trying their best (key word) chance at winning.
If tunneling, camping, 3 gens, gen rush, or w.e. is an effective way to win then it is what it is. Again, its not the players fault, get mad at the devs if you want. Advocating for it to be changed or expressing that for you it is unfun is one thing and on that I would probably agree. Insulting players just for playing in a way that has been shown to get results just because you don't like it is another and I will say that that is always unnecessary and hostile.
If that's not how you feel or what you meant, then perhaps that was just poor word choice.
I myself have advocated for changing these things and proposed solutions in the past, but as the game is now it's not the players fault. Unless we're really going to argue that taking your best shot to win is something that shouldn't be allowed and/or something that should be mocked and shamed.
Make going for the 12 hook a good play. Better than the tunneling alternative and actually strong, not a detriment. Then we'll see more players shift and play that way.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479860#Comment_3479860
Don't know where you're getting me calling people slurs from and I'm moderately upset at the implication.
If you want to tunnel one person out at 5 gens, you are free to do so. You don't have to in pretty much any circumstance.
Play Blight with Alc Ring + C33 with 4 slowdowns and tunnel the first person off of hook. You're allowed to do it, but you're playing like an ass for no reason.
Slur: "an insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation."
You calling them an ass is literally a slur, so that's where it's coming from. So be upset with yourself if you want, it was your actions.
You're not "playing like an ass" unless you're doing something with the express intent or sole effect of causing the other players to be miserable. Playing something because its strong and wins or is your best option does not fit into that category. Even if a side effect is some people get upset at it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471721#Comment_3471721
This is a ######### argument.
Everyone has known that tunneling is the best strategy for YEARS. Everyone has also known that it can be exceedingly unfun.
All you're trying to do is take the blame off of the Killer and say, "See, they had no choice!". If you're gonna play like an ass and tunnel at 5 gens, own it.
So taking your best chance at winning is "playing like an ass"? Yikes.
I don't tunnel and camp because it's not fun for me, but I wouldn't call someone who does because they want to win a slur. That's the point of the game, to win. It's completely understandable.
That's such an immature viewpoint imo. "It's not fun for me so you're a bootie for doing it". It's the game designs fault not theirs.
That's like saying survivors are booties just because they split up on gens, it's ridiculous.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478534#Comment_3478534
I did not personally comprise this list.
I do not know of any other Survivor streaks besides Hens', which they lost at around 200.
That still puts them below Killers like Onryo and Clown.
I merely pointed out that people don't have much interest in doing Survivor streaks because Solo, Duo and Trio streaks aren't really possible. You need to have four competent and skilled players in order to have a chance.
"That still puts them below Killers like Onryo and Clown."
Exactly, and meanwhile killers like Executioner and Huntress are under all 3 of those. I might think PH is overrated, but being worse than Onryo and Clown? Absolutely not and Huntress is also a pretty solid killer.
I agree that you need a group to at least be reasonable to try, but that's more because other survivors aren't the best or will leave the match purposefully after not getting their way. Not because of power level. 4 good solos who are actually trying are still better than most of the roster in my experience. I'd say anything mid-low A tier and below depending on how good we're talking.
I'm not an amazing survivor imo, but most of the roster is pretty simple to get around most of the time for me. Whether I'm solo or not.
I just don't think people should be using win streaks to try and say anything about power level/balance. I could tank my MMR and win a ton of matches with Ghostface. That doesn't make him good.
Like I said, its interesting trivia but that's all.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478520#Comment_3478520
Pretty sure the only recent streak that comes to mind with Survivors is Hens' streak, which I think was over 200 games like I said in my first reply.
People just aren't going for Survivor streaks because they aren't generally feasible outside of a 4-man.
By OP I meant original post, I probably could have made that more clear my mistake.
The information was not researched or included. To me that would be an obvious inclusion to mitigate the community tribalism us-vs-them as much as you can.
4 man is still "survivor" the same way Nurse is still "killer". If you're going to include nurse for a general "killer" statement/data then you need to include 4 man SWF in a general "survivor" statement/data to represent the high end on both sides.
200 is better than most of the killer cast streaks as well. Win streaks don't point to balance but if they did this would still put killers on the losing side.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478289#Comment_3478289
It demonstrates that killer is not anywhere near as weak as delusional players make it out to be. It's unironically a skill issue if someone can't consistently win games as killer.
I mean if they're delusional yeah no duh that's a given lol. Same with delusional survivor players who think the game doesn't favor them in general the heavy majority of the time (if they're good).
In the general balance though? Not really. Win streaks are not indicative of balance, especially when you're trying to generalize something like "killer" where you have Trapper, and then you have Nurse with everything in-between.
This original post and thread are also ignoring and leaving out the multiple survivor win streaks that have also been in the hundreds as well. Which to me reeks of survivor bias but that's just my opinion.
People can tank their MMR, get lucky, ect. Win streaks are interesting little trivia but not much more.
The claim of "killers can't get win streaks" was disproven, but that was a silly statement to begin with. The worst character in most game have win streaks, that doesn't make the character not weak or suffering from other issues.
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Honestly good change.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465082#Comment_3465082
I actually tried this build. I cannot do all the totems on my own and if I do that means I am not doing gens. So which should I prioritize? I am starting to think those advising me are bullshitting me.
Prioritize gens, if you can't do the totems and they have NoED then just break it at end game like many have suggested. If they end up having any other hexes then you'll also be better equipped to handle it than your teammates (most likely).
Break them when appropriate. Knowing when you should and shouldn't be breaking the totems is all about game sense.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462331#Comment_3462331
“I break all the totems solo for BP pretty regularly” sure you do
Yeah I do, do you have anything to suggest otherwise?
Just because you're incapable or unwilling, doesn't mean everyone is. Not everyone is a sweaty gen jokey player, although given the survivor base I can see why that might be hard to believe.
I don't like when killers tunnel/slug or when survivors slam gens, so I don't do either when I'm playing the respective side. I stick by my beliefs that if survivors want killers to play more casually/slowly they need to do the same. Maybe if more would do that instead of perpetuating hypocrisy we would be in a better gaming environment.
So I do totems as it lets me get BP with potential other benefits depending, while also giving killers some of the breathing room they need to reasonably play without sweat tactics if they so choose.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464286#Comment_3464286
I meant it sounds like you're telling survivors they should be okay with being tunneled out of the game because that's the only play style some Killers choose.
Gens are the main objective for survivors that's how they escape, unless there's only one Survivor in the game in which they can try to find hatch before the killer does. Tunneling is an optional play style it's one way killers are able to do their objective But not the only way.
Survivors need Gens to get as many as possible out of the exit gates unless the devs decide to add a third way for more then one survivor to escape. (Not sure what that could be)
Considering Gens are already 90 seconds long and Killers have Gen regression perks, and their goal is to get Hooks/Kills (As in occupying a survivor's time and taking them away from a Gen) and once a Survivor has been hooked three times they're out of the game while the killer gets to go all the way until the end, I don't see why survivors should have to slow down because of a Killers inability to keep up with regressing the Gens, that's a part of the challenge Killers face in this game if you don't have that then and the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not the Survivor you're chasing is good at looping which for me would take away from playing Killer and make it boring and almost predictable, as in if I knew I had a whole chunk of time to stay in a chase for far too long or to get the amount of kills I want to be happy.
I never said Killers should stop getting hooks or kills or not try to win I'm saying they should use different play styles, when every killer you go against tunnels you out of the game as soon as possible it makes it very unappealing to play Survivor.
You are asking the killer to slow down their main objective. If killers have to be fine with survivors slamming gens survivors have to be fine with killers slamming kills.
So the survivors who want to keep slamming gens should not be complaining about tunneling. That's hypocrisy otherwise.
The killers main objective is kills, you are asking them to get a kill partway then go work on another one or do something else. The survivor equivalent would be to do a gen partway, then go work on another one or do something else.
Just because the killer has different ways to delay themselves doesn't change that they're doing it. Survivors have their own ways to delay themselves.
Survivors need gens and killers need kills. To use your phrase, I don't see why killers should have to slow down just because of survivors inability to keep up with kill speeds.
Killers have regression, survivors have gen speed perks and toolboxes. Survivors have looping to delay downs and by extension kills.
Any other strat is delaying yourself significantly since currently nothing compares to getting a player out the game ASAP. Not tunneling is not fully trying to win. You're handicapping yourself. Same as not focusing gens.
Everything you're saying about killers can be reflected to survivors in their own version, so both either slow down or shouldn't expect the other to do so while they don't.
Killer is also miserable when gens fly.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449643#Comment_3449643
So yeah we agree it's possible for Killers to "Win" without tunneling, they don't have to Tunnel they want to, it's 100% reasonable to observe other strategies the fact that you don't is a mindset you put yourself in because you don't want the possibility that you might not "Win" and you don't want to be okay with "Losing" even though you're telling survivors they should be okay with "Losing"
I'm not sure what you mean by saying survivors should be ok with losing. Even with tunneling you're going to lose as you could with gen focus.
But like I said, is it possible sure the same way its possible for survivors to win while doing all totems and chest and spreading their gen progress. They don't "need" to focus gens they want to.
I wouldn't say its reasonable to ask people to play sub optimally on purpose while trying to win, especially whole they don't do the same on their side. If its the most efficient strategy then it is what it is. We should buff other strats up to that level before dragging this one down.
You seem to be making it about ego when generally that's not really the case. People just want their best shot at winning, which yeah that makes complete sense. You don't have an ego just because you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot every match.
Now if both sides agree to play sub optimally than sure that's different since it'll equalize the playing field, but that's not really what I see being expressed.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462860#Comment_3462860
I didn't know we had an official guide like that, lmao.
Funny thing is that guide is incorrect, you don't win by sacrificing the survivors you win by killing them with sacrifice being one option.
The devs are at it again I see lol. Probably just an honest mistake but them contradicting themselves has led to a lot of misinformation flying around.
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The only valid thing that comes to mind is so hatch can spawn.
Which in that case just make the second to last sacrifice instant and remove all other instances of self sacrifice.
Or just remove/rework hatch entirely to not be such an unhealthy mechanic and also get rid of self sacrifice.
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No it's generally not as bad as people will lead you to believe.
There's a lot of players who have such broad (incorrect) definitions of camping and tunneling that basically playing the game as killer will make them accuse you of doing it.
Not that it doesn't happen, but it gets blown way out of proportion, especially slugging. At least in my experience.
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Because when the requirements were more lenient tons of survivors were just getting their invitation or whatever and then throwing themselves at the killer to suicide on hooks.
Other survivors complained about losing matches and not being able to play a normal game.
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As the game is now its not inherently toxic to go for the 4k by slugging #3, as you need to account for hatch.
Now if hatch was removed that'd be a different story. Assuming nothing takes its place.
Bleed out on the ground is kinda in the same boat due to being able to pull yourself off the hook. Remove it, make hooks respawn from sacrifice, and fix hook dead zones and there'd be no excuse.
As I said earlier, bad mechanics beget other bad mechanics.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462053#Comment_3462053
Yeah, I'm sure if I played in a SWF no totems would make it to end game, but as it is I am not and I cannot control my teammates. Try harder next time with your answer, thx.
I break all the totems solo for BP pretty regularly, SWF is not required. Even when I 'm in a SWF I'm usually the only one who does the totems lol. It would be more efficient if they did obviously, but it's not needed.
Bringing a map or totem perk helps a ton, which is more than fair. Using 1/16 of the survivor perks to potentially out 1/4 of the killer's as well as any other hexes is a pretty good deal.
Also like others have said, just wait for it to send out its "break me I'm here" beacon if you don't want to do any of that.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457274#Comment_3457274
Can't the exact same be said for NOED?
If survivors do all 5 gens why should a perk allow the killer to undo his bad decisions for the last 10 minutes?
I wouldn't compare a perk you might maybe see every once in a while to a base mechanic that's in every single game.
NoED requires you to play a perk down the entire match for an totem that reveals itself to the survivors if there's even a totem left. You might get 1 down with it and then the survivors will most likely break it. I haven't seen NoED in a long time personally after the nerf hammer came down on it hard, which is probably healthier for the game tbh. However if your in the bottom tiers of the MMR system then it might still be popular I suppose.
Hatch just spawns in for free, so you always have to account for it.
If you want to turn hatch into a boon perk survivors have to equip for it to spawn then sure go for it.
Also getting a down and getting an escape are 2 different things. If NoED just killed the survivor than it would be closer, but still not the same.
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Probably just because of how many people are playing. If you check the steam charts, the number of players is much much higher than its been for the entire year from the busiest being ~70,000 to now being ~87,000. That's about a 25% increase and that's just on steam.
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I mean, I'm just 2 hooking everyone.
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Probably just because of how many people are playing. If you check the steam charts, the number of players is much much higher than its been for the entire year from the busiest being ~70,000 to now being ~87,000. That's about a 25% increase and that's just on steam.
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Probably just because of how many people are playing. If you check the steam charts, the number of players is much much higher than its been for the entire year from the busiest being ~70,000 to now being ~87,000. That's about a 25% increase and that's just on steam.
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Yeah I haven't done any accidental kills yet but there have definitely been times where I'm like "wait, is this person dead on hook? I don't remember. Oh well guess we'll see."
Or like, oh I'm sorry, I don't remember which of the 3 megs still had hook stages left.
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@Pink_Ronin said:
They already increased the bloodlust speed for killers awhile back. You got enough of a speed boost, and there are other movement speed perks already for killer
Survivors had other movement speed perks and that didn't stop a new one, so I don't see why that matters.
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Probably just because of how many people are playing. If you check the steam charts, the number of players is much much higher than its been for the entire year from the busiest being ~70,000 to now being ~87,000. That's about a 25% increase and that's just on steam.
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@SpiritsHusk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461793#Comment_3461793
leveling up once will probably get you a cake.
I just got Hux today and didn't get a cake until like, around my 10th bloodweb.
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Happy I'm part of the 1% 2 hooking everyone I guess. Sucks you're going through that, hope it gets better.
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I mean, I'm playing killer (due to BP bonus) and trying not to kill anyone. I'll hook them twice but won't death hook them.
However I can't control their teammates, sometimes I just see someone die like "wait your team didn't save you? Why? I'm across the map."
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Maybe not open chat, but a chat wheel could work.
I would say a ping system but I see how players in League abuse that system to be toxic and rather not hand it to DBD players as well.
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The perk isn't the problem it's the maps.
It's not that WoO led you to 6 connected tiles/pallets, it's that the map spawned that in to begin with.
You could do this without WoO, it just makes it easier. Especially for your average player who doesn't plan routes ahead of time.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454502#Comment_3454502
Of course it can get nerfed.
Basically only movement speed aspect is problematic.
You could replace it with faster healing speed (downed survivors) and it would be great anti slugging perk.
Removing half the perk and replacing it sounds like a rework to me which is what they said lol.
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Because hatch exist as a get out of jail free RNG card that can just screw the killer out of 50% of their win (3 and 4k only are wins).
One bad mechanic causes another in this case.