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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847489#Comment_3847489
This. The dog forces survivors to path poorly even if the hitbox isn't generous. You'll get an M1 off of them dodging the dog.
And oh my god the bugs. This dog is like my goldendoodle. He only listens when he feels like it.
This. The dog forces survivors to path poorly even if the hitbox isn't generous.
No he doesn't, you can literally move a singular pixel from a dog that's directly on top of you and make him miss completely, if the survivor pathed poorly or overcorrected their direction it is ENTIRELY on them.
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@ad19970 said:
I don't know, it doesn't seem that small to me. It can't be too big either because survivors should have a fair chance at dodging the dog.
They do have a perfectly fair chance at dodging the dog, it's called finding a thicker-than-average pocket of air for him to get stuck on
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FINALLY
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Gates should regress if left alone for too long.
Grim Embrace still isn't that good.
Billy isn't that hard to play anymore.
Clown isn't that bad to face.
Neither is Knight.
Demogorgon however is absolutely miserable to go against.
Most survivor perks are actually totally viable, people just think they're bad because they're not meta.
Jake players have big wieners.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703588#Comment_3703588
His power isn't pre-drop or hold W, it's duck and 360.
If a Nemesis is getting his whip 360'd it's time for him to close the game and head to bed for the night.
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Because one successful Dead Hard can cost the killer the match.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685847#Comment_3685847
I don't know about that, I think Demos shred with barbs glasses is most likely faster than Nemesis tentacle when destroying a pallet... And his zoning is not that good either, demos shred is probably better at zoning. Overall Nemesis is a really average killer.
The hitboxes is not really forgiving it is more about how the strafing works.
The animation is faster but the little bit of movement Nemesis gets after breaking a pallet makes up for it. His zone is also really good at keeping distance, even with the reduced range compared to shred. It's a monster of a zoning tool AND it can hit over things which Demo can't do.
The hitbox is extremely forgiving. The strafing is enabled by the fact that the hitbox lingers for like a full half second after you've thrown the whip out. Like I said, a huge portion of my hits come from smacking a wall and then walking around it and murdering the survivor with, I don't know, the T-Virus infested air molecules.
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@arcaneGospel said:
Nemesis' chase power isn't good.
Like, even if we assume the zombies work for anything with any consistency--they don't--Nemesis doesn't have a good chase power so he kinda needs it. His power is 6m range, that's like, the same as a lunge, I think? And it's only six meters in tier 3--which can take a while to reach. His ability to break pallets is alright. His strengths are all wildly overstated, so if you only left him with his tentacle, he'd probably be worse than he is now and he is really bad right now.
I'm not gonna deny he needs a rework, but I feel like the zombies are the least offensive part of his kit? They can be annoying, but like, only once every five games when they decide to do anything. I'd rather they were less of a 'random chance of annoying one guy in particular' mechanic, but they're really the least of Nemesis' issues.
(I know opening my reply to a post about the zombies with talking about the other half of the power is really weird. in my defense it is 3 AM)
His chase power is incredibly strong. One of the best zoning tools in the game, very good at maintaining distance even when you mess up, counters predropping and god pallets much MUCH better than Demo's shred, and by a landslide the most forgiving hitbox in the entire game. I swear I've gotten more hits by whipping a wall and then strafing around it than actually whipping survivors.
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Honestly? Keep it that way. I used to alt-tab while waiting for a match to load since loading screens will just periodically go through phases where they take ######### forever but ever since the mute change I couldn't use the sound of the match loading in to let me know the video game was ready to be a video game.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681469#Comment_3681469
Rich you think that is counterplay because for every other Perk Survivors use Killers are quick to cry NO COUNTERPLAY.
Because to counter a perk you need to have a good intuition of its existence and when a survivor immediately runs into the basement in the middle of a chase that's a pretty big tell.
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@Lixadonna said:
So petty. Heaven forbid Survivor does anything fun besides slamming Gens.
Heaven forbid the killer employs counterplay to a perk.
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He's got good mobility but that's it. Curving is absolutely demolished by just leaving the loop, so he's got no extra chase beyond backrevving. He's not that strong.
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Lightborn is fine, flashlight squads are annoying. Not because flashlights are OP, but because believe it or not, having your entire occipital lobe turned completely off every single time you kick a pallet is not that fun.
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Start at 5 seconds and decrease by 0.5 for every gen that's done.
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@AhoyWolf said:
Chucky is an amazing Killer, I think however that there are a few things in need of changing.
Scamper
This may be a controversial opinion, but I think Chucky should only be able to Scamper during Slice & Dice, this counts pallets and windows. Scamper is really strong and uninteractive when not used in the Slice & Dice attack. This would make him a lot weaker tho, so buffing the Scamper speed for both windows and pallets to 1.0-0.9 seconds from 1.4 seconds iirc would be nice.
Also to compensate this a bit.
Cooldown
The cooldown is a bit weird, sometimes it depletes, sometimes not, there are some things that need adressing to be honest.
- Make Chucky start with Hidey-Ho Mode fully charged by default.
- Reduce the time it takes to recharge it to 14 seconds.
- Manually cancelling Hidey-Ho Mode no longer depletes the power gauge.
You are already warned when Chucky is in play when you see the illusionary footsteps, so the first change would just make his gameplay a bit smoother.
The second change is to encourage more Slice & Dice plays, and since Scamper without Slice & Dice is no longer a thing I think it's fair.
The third change is just for QoL, not really fun to have the option to hinder yourself haha.
However, to make the counterplay on the Survivor side a bit more impactful.
- Hidey-Ho Mode depletes fully when missing or hitting a basic attack.
- Stuns deplete Hidey-Ho Mode.
- Blinds deplete Hidey-Ho Mode.
- Hidey-Ho Mode only starts recharging when Slice & Dice has ended. (not during Slice & Dice)
There are a bit more means for Survivors to deplete Chucky's power gauge now.
I think dropping the power time to 14 seconds but making the cooldown start after S-n-D is self-defeating. As it stands right now, if you go for a decently-long S-n-D, the time for that and the swing cooldown animation to play out is already 4-5 seconds, so unless you're only using, like, a fifth of a second of S-n-D the cooldown out of an attack is already effectively 15-ish seconds. So it just ends up doing nothing to help S-n-D's cooldown and only buffs using H-H for M1 mindgames.
Also, this is just a personal thing but I really enjoy being able to speed up my cooldown by using Scamper mid-dish and extending the time I'm in it. That particular form of agency over your power's restrictions/cooldown is a fun thing that very few killers get to play around with.
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I wanna say Kuchisake-Onna but that was probably the inspiration for Spirit's design so that's a pipe dream.
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@Beatricks said:
I'm pretty sure his pickrate doesn't justify sinking time and effort into him.
If they don't put time and effort into him his pickrate is going to stay the same.
Wacky.
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A lot of people in this thread are highlighting killers like Demo, Nemesis, and Xeno as being proof that STBFL is problematic. If you ask me, this goes to show something else entirely: A lot of the killers being mentioned here are so good with STBFL not just because they can easily M2 you to save stacks, but also because of how they shutdown loops—by zoning you to death. Just by existing near a loop/prop they can force you to dodge their M2 and immediately just cancel into an M1. Meaning they can just feed themselves free STBFL stacks, as opposed to needing to truly earn them like M1 killers do, on TOP of conserving them by committing to an M2 hit.
That’s not a STBFL problem. That’s a zoning killer problem. Been saying this since the grandfather of this atrocious method of power design (Demo) dropped in twenty-effing-nineteen. This kind of antiloop is extremely unhealthy; one of the things that has me standing by the fact that DBD has been on a decline for a long time now is BHVR’s constant insistence on cranking out zoner after zoner after zoner for the past four years.
Nerfing STBFL because of zoning killers is like when Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of Starstruck Nurse. Something fun gets ruined for the whole family because the killer roster’s golden children are immune to being reigned in.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
It's a trade off. You get the benefits of larger FoV but in return you are easier to blind. Also, it's a slider. You don't have to use it (like the visual heartbeat, which some people find distracting, so they don't use it). Also if you genuinely believe they are redesigning the blind system with an entirely separate "blind" hitbox, you are... very optimistic to say the least.
A trade off for what? Being able to play the video game within actually acceptable calibration and accessibility parameters?
Besides, the blind angle is so absurdly wide anyways that they could leave it completely untouched and it’d probably be more in line with the new maximum FoV’s cone of vision.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616949#Comment_3616949
I'm not trying to suggest Rapid is better than STBFL just that it's very good in it's own way and there's more than just Singularity that can use it well. I will say Rapid probably has a higher floor than STBFL in terms of giving you results consistently but STBFL's ceiling is much higher. There's also some scenarios where the obsession is the weak link of the team which makes STBFL very annoying to use which is not a problem Rapid has but that only happens every 4th or 5th game or so.
I really think Singu's teleport is the make or break for Rapid. Killer weapon wipes take such a huge chunk out of your distance that an STBFL token count anywhere higher than 3 beats out Rapid basically everywhere else. Moreover, STBFL is not only great for keeping distance, but it's also vastly better when it comes to M1'ing a survivor and then following up with an M2 ability on killers like Artist, Demo, Pyramid Head, Deathslinger, Chucky—hell, even unlikely candidates like Knight, Twins, and post-buff Trickster can benefit greatly from this aspect of the perk, albeit more situationally so.
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The fact that people think there's anything wrong with this perk baffles me. Only killer it's even remotely problematic on is Demo because Shred has absurd range for how easy it is to land. Other than that, the perk is totally fine.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
They need to remove 2 stacks and m2 hits on obsession also removes stacks. Problem solved.
That would kill the perk lol
@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616894#Comment_3616894
Nah I've run a lot of Rapid Brutality and it's amazing on Singularity but also Skull Merchant since you have basekit bloodlust, Clown for obvious reasons and Slinger to get you in range of another shot more quickly. I did the math and it's roughly 3 stacks of STBFL you get right away and doesn't care about the obsession and actually gets better when used with STBFL because you get to use more of the haste.
It generally ranges to being very average to a bit disgusting on killers it fits well with. STBFL is the stronger perk overall for sure but I've run Rapid by itself and it does not feel bad by any means.
Even on Clown and Skull I'd still take STBFL. Rapid is only really good on Singu because he's the single best M1 killer at negating the on-hit boost which is Rapid's actual counter.
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We don't need a basekit tracking perk, we need scratch marks to make any kind of sense. They will spawn in areas nowhere near where a survivor ran, go through walls, show up late, etc. and have just gotten steadily worse at indicating where survivors were and where they went.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601857#Comment_3601857
Not really.
Trickster is already an extremely oppressive killer in the chase. You will down no matter what. PTB version made it even worse and more annoying.
They better just leave this killer to die if they are not gonna rework his power. We don't need another DC monster like Dull Merchant.
"Trickster is too oppressive" mfs when you show them what a wall is:
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591768#Comment_3591768
A joke in what sense? They have thousands of hours in the game and are miles better than 99% of players, sure there are better and worse comp teams but you cannot in all seriousness think that those guys are not really good at the game. Unless ofc you wanna prove yourself like that one guy that flamed a pinhead player in a tournament and got shown by eternal that he was wrong so...
I don't think the advantage is overrated, especially in combination with his 3rd person perspective...
I can think that when the comp meta is pre-throwing pallets while your team holds M1.
Also all the 3rd person camera does is let Chucky have the FoV of a regular killer. It's not an advantage whatsover.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591726#Comment_3591726
So on that regard I watched several different content creators and their opinion about it, what stuck most in my mind was Knightlight stating that Chucky might be the 4th or 5th best killer in the game, even in front of Wesker. I think I heard something similar of ScottJund and Hens but I'm not as sure on that part..
Even if he did that and you are right... Tell me which bad killer can perform well against a comp team?
" Tell me which bad killer can perform well against a comp team?"
Most because most comp teams are jokes.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591691#Comment_3591691
Considering his smaller size makes him harder to see and the footsteps are not enough to counteract that he is still way better off than your basic 115% m/s killer. Just look at the showcase Otzdarva and Hens did with Cucky against a comp team, he did fairly well, despite only being 110% m/s.
Also seeing the footsteps is not equal to seeing him... It can still throw you off.
"Considering his smaller size makes him harder to see and the footsteps are not enough to counteract that"
In what world? In my matches against him they completely destroyed his ability to do anything without his power. Even if they're not pinpoint accurate which they absolutely are, free wallhacks against a 110 M1 killer are free wallhacks against a 110 M1 killer, period. They completely negate any advantage he might get from being tiny—an advantage that people vastly overrate.
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@CatnipLove said:
Doesn't his small hitbox mean that he can loop more efficiently than other killers? It that's the case, it might offset him not being 4.6, at least when it comes to looping.
It probably offsets it partially but definitely not enough to make up for the fact that a) it takes a full 50% longer for him to close a given distance on a survivor than a 115 killer, and b) you can see him through walls.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
he has add-on to reduce his cooldown. automatic screw driver gives 15% on missed attacks and power drill gives -20% on successful. It is just that he is now reliant on those add-on to use his ability. I think he is still going to be strong killer. apart from running shoes and iri amulet with pallet vaulting, those were his best add-on's in ptb. I believe otz showcased a match with those exact add-on's.
Afaik the screw driver doesn't reduce your power cooldown after a miss, it reduces the time you spend in that missed attack animation. Basically Unrelenting but for his power. If it does reduce the cooldown, that's odd, but at least it's something.
I just don't understand why they adjusted his dash length and the related addons to "reduce addon reliability" but completely ignored the aspect of his power that he's ACTUALLY addon-reliant on, extremely so in fact.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/397833/no-cooldown-buff-for-chucky
He is considered one of the best killers in the game, I don't really think he needed to become much stronger.
lol, said the raven, lmao
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@SqueakyArmor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587775#Comment_3587775
How do you know? Do you have a chart of how many players play knight?
Look at me bro.
Look at me. Knight main to Knight main.
You find me 5 other Knight mains in this community and I'll find you 5 liars.
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Sarcastic answer: Because greatswords are cool.
Real answer: Modelling and animation issues as specified above. They'd probably put the effort into alternate modelling and weapon wipes if more than 5 people played Knight, but as of right now it probably wouldn't be profitable enough for them.
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Because one is something good and the other is a Chucky DLC.
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Looking at the silhouette of the missing knife, I'm moreso hoping this is a long-overdue Myers update than I am hoping it's the worst old school slasher villain of all time.
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I honestly enjoy most of the killers in this game, even Twins. Used to main them. When it comes to favorites, though, it'd probably look something like this.
-Wesker: Grew up loving RE5 well before DBD was even a thing, and as a killer Wesker is full of personality and flair that fits his RE5 iteration perfectly. Plus he's just really fun to play. He makes you FEEL powerful which is a hard sensation to come by on a lot of killers.
-Twins: For as clunky and buggy as they are, the things you can do with them if you really put your mind to it is so exhilarating. Juggling survivors to verse and outwit the whole team at once, making full use of the vast disparity between Charlotte and Victor's kits, some of the pounces you can do with Victor give more dopamine than any other ranged attack in the game, the list goes on.
-Knight: He's a knight. I like Soulsborne games. I like Knight. Also, again, knowing how to actively place and manage my guards to bring the 4v1 state of the game into a position that's advantageous for me makes me feel like a glowing brain genius sometimes.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473637#Comment_3473637
The important thing is - comparing it to lithe/sprint/mft/balanced/new smash hit/overcome/.... And I would say it would definitely NOT land at the top of those power wise (sure, it's absolutely also not as bad as old smash hit). Fun-wise, it would actually probably get to the top though.
It's not that free, if it removes other perks that in fact ARE free distance (and exhaustion perks were always class of perks that gave "free" distance - which is needed to at least partially counter dead zones that killers can create).
It's one of the most free perks I've seen in a long time. What those other exhaustion perks are good for bar MFT is helping you get to a new tile. I know that Dramaturgy's numbers are smaller, but when you're actually looping, the thing that's truly important about the speed boost is you have an on-demand ability to completely outpace the killer for a full 2 seconds with almost no drawback. That is EXTREMELY free. An on-demand boost like that WILL get you to that pallet or window you're playing around, and it is precisely what made old Dead Hard so obscenely broken.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473246#Comment_3473246
You get 0.5s warning instead of 0s of warning. It takes 2s (4s if you are lucky) instead of 0.5s, you make 2m (or 4m if lucky) extra distance instead of 4m, you can be hit during the thing (so no going thru hatchets, trapper traps, doctor's shocks, etc). And also old DH absolutely made you exposed for a short time. Yes. Exactly the same thing...
The amount of overreaction on every even remotely useful perk for survivor is insane
It's free distance with nothing but a 0.5 second channel that barely gives you any kind of slow-down. It's an on-demand free escape from a lunge or leap to a pallet/window whose only potential drawback, 12 seconds of Exposed, barely puts you at any risk when you can just vault the window or throw the pallet you got to for free and depending on RNG you'll get a free commodious or syringe instead of any sort of punishment.
Not that good, though.
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Meanwhile Nic Cage's new exhaustion perk is literally old Dead Hard but uninjured.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472118#Comment_3472118
shrug never said it was a great idea, but if its not gona be the counter to sabos like before and its use is gona be limited, we figured go big and see what happens then fix it.
{"we" is the ones sharing this account}
In the vein of making hooks unbreakable and of having a throwback to Hangman's original iteration, maybe scourge hooks broken via sacrificing could repair themselves after 60 seconds. Hangman's used to do that.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Personally we'd want something like a throwback and make those hooks unbreakable, but if going your route, we'd say 2/3/4 more scourge hooks with maybe reducing range.
I don't think doubling the number of scourge hooks in the trial would be a super great idea given how scourge hook perks ARE balanced around giving you substantial rewards for making it to these specific hooks; if we make the hooks in question too easy to get to then that'd create issues. And when it comes to making them unbreakable, I countering sabo squads was Hangman's reason for existing since its inception and the original rework kept that vision intact; to me it feels like they're trying to move away from that with these changes and make it more of a general information perk.
Also, who's "we"?
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@Dreamnomad said:
I'd be good with it though I do feel the need to point out a few things. Your suggested change doesn't actually address the issue you mentioned "This would make Hangman's Trick the only scourge hook perk whose benefit in no way involves actually USING the scourge hooks". It still wouldn't do anything as far as hooking a survivor on the scourge hook. I also think you are underestimating how much space the aura reading would actually be. But I think having 5 scourge hooks wouldn't break the game either.
Right, but after making that comment I immediately followed it up with "To me, this screams that it is meant to be used in conjunction with other scourge hook perks." which this change aims to bolster.
And nah, running an entire scourge hook perk just for an aura reading range with less reach than Demogorgon's shred on 4 specific props with an RNG-based spawn during one specific short-lived scenario? If you want hook-based aura reading then BBQ and Awakened Awareness blow Hangman's Trick out of the water.
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The new Blast Mine change is gross. Kicking gens is already a huge waste of time without pop; receiving a 4 second stun and getting a headache for utilizing a base mechanic that is mediocre 99% of the time is awful.
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I'm surprised someone on the team still remembers this killer exists tbh
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My favorite should be Trickster because he's such a complete garbage-tier 110 M1 joke of a killer who crumples like wet paper the second survivors acknowledge the existence of walls, but it's gotten to the point where I just feel bad for anyone naive enough to think they would get to play the game when they picked him.
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I'll take 10,000 Wesker matches before I take 1 match against like 80% of the killers in this game lmao
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Spirit.
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People optimize the fun out of everything. I've stopped playing survivor unless there's a 100% bloodpoint incentive because of killers whose sole goal in life is making the match into a 3v1 where I'm not one of the 3, and on killer I've swapped to Ghostface for the duration of this event because of how good he is at countering the current survivor strat of using MFT to W key to an unmindgameable god window and then block it with an invitation.
Anyways, I haven't been playing much of this event at all. Should not come as a surprise.
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Agreed +100, it's so spicy.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379875/riddle-me-this
Lets put i this way.
- Average killer's movement speed is 4.6 m/s
- Survivors movement speed is 4.0 m/s
- The difference between them is 0.6/ m/s
Now, if a survivor gets a 3% movement speed buff, they will then move at 4.12 m/s. This makes the difference between the killer and survivor 0.48 m/s
If a killer gets a 3% movement speed buff, they will then move at 4.72 m/s (percentage movement effects go off base movement speed of 4.0 m/s) This makes the difference between them 0.72 m/s.
Now, if we have a hypothetical killer chase an injured survivor starting at 32 meters, and pretend they run in an infinite straight line with these movement speed differences, how long will it take the killer to catch this survivor?
0.6 m/s - 43.3 seconds
0.48 m/s - 54.16 seconds
0.72 m/s - 36.1 seconds
The 3% movement speed on the killer saves 7 seconds, but on the survivor it saves 11 seconds. This is due to the nature of how the DIFFERENCES in movement speed work out. Which is far more important than the absolute movement speed between the two. Movement speed stacks in a diminishing way with itself, such that, every 1% extra movement speed gained, is weaker than the previous 1% movement speed gained. And since killers start out at 115%, 3% movement speed is weaker than a survivor that starts out at 100%.
Now, this is actually the WORST case scenario and still favors the survivor. The big thing to keep in mind is in the terms of looping. Because the hitbox of a survivor is actually much smaller than that of a killer, they can run loops tighter than them, so they actually REDUCE the difference in movement speed more when they loop tightly.
I don't actually know what this difference is, because the sizes of the exact hitboxes aren't known (as far as i know, but if someone has them, please let me know and we can do the math on them.)
But anyway, because of these hitbox sizes, the difference in movement speed while staying the same, the survivors have to travel less distance around a loop than a killer does. Thinking like a circular racetrack
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SC4BD8LS4YCV/image.png
I threw this together in paint so it isn't exact, but imagine these are perfect circles:
Blue is the survivor
Red is the killer
Black is a rock.
In order to go around the rock, the survivor has to travel less distance than the killer because their hitbox is smaller. So if you increase a survivors movement speed by 3% in this case, it is a big big difference, whereas if you are increasing the killer's movement speed by 3%, it doesn't make as big of a difference because they still have to loop around it in a "longer" path because of the size of their hitbox.
Really look at the difference between a 110% killer like huntress and a 115% killer like trapper. Average size of a map is around 10k meters squared. So if we take that as a perfect square the map is 100 x 100 meters. So traveling in a straight line from one end of the map to the other is 100 meters, how long does it take each killer to travel that distance?
Huntress = 22.7 seconds
Trapper = 21.7 seconds
Not much of a difference right? Because the difference in movement speeds between these 2 killers isn't actually that significant. But try looping a survivor around a tight rock as huntress, and then again as trapper (not using their powers) and see how much longer it takes you to hit the survivor as the huntress than the trapper.
Now for fun, lets look at these different movement speeds and how long it takes them to run in a straight line of 100 meters.
110% (huntress) = 22.7
115% (trapper) = 21.7 seconds
118% (SM with 1 stack) = 21.18 seconds
100% (survivor) = 25 seconds
103% (made for this) = 24.27 seconds
You can see there that the difference between the trapper and SM (where SM is 3% faster) is .52 seconds, around half a second. Whereas the difference between the base survivor and one with made for this is 0.73 seconds. We can conclude that the 3% from made for this for a survivor is actually around 40% more powerful than the 3% gained by skull merchant. Again, this is because the multiplicative nature of the movement speeds makes it so the 1% gained at 101% movement speed, is actually more impactful than 1% gained at say, 151% if the killer was moving at 150%. Each 1% is weaker than the last.
So, to conclude, to compare skull merchants movement gains to made for this, skull merchant actually needs 4.25% movement speed to be around as powerful as made for this. And again, this only factors in that straight line, not factoring in looping around a rock/hitboxes. Which i think would make it significantly more. Again, if someone has the numbers for the hitbox sizes we could calculate this out, and it would be an interesting exercise. But anecdotally. I'd say you would probably need around 7.5% more movement speed to make up that looping difference. Because PWYF doesn't feel like it does at 1 stack, but it does at 2 stacks. But again, that is just based on feelings and not actual math.
Agree with a lot of this, but one small correction: Haste is calculated based on the character's base movement speed at any given point, not a static 4.0 meters per second. A survivor's base speed when running is 4.0 m/s, but a 4.6 m/s killer with a multiplicative haste will receive a slightly higher movespeed boost than a survivor running at 4.0 m/s, because you're multiplying the haste buff by their base movespeed, which is higher than a survivor's. Similarly, Blight's 9.2 m/s rush speed receives double the extra speed than a 4.6 m/s killer.
Just wanted to let you know, because it does affect your math, if negligibly.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456876#Comment_3456876
Well... Yeah? That's sort of the point of getting licenses, to bring in players. More players = more money, more players = healthy live game, and bhvr is still a company who exists solely to make money.
Edit: I reread this thinking you were saying originally it wasn't healthy in 9/10 cases, but I think I misunderstood and I think you are saying it is healthy, which I agree with
I'm saying in 9/10 cases, it's unhealthy. The licenses pull in players, but the content itself is a nightmare of balancing and rarely has a positive effect on the game. I wouldn't complain if BHVR stopped doing licenses altogether.
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@SirCracken said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WEC3I72162EA/made-for-this-description-png.png
Made For This is the most broken survivor perk released in recent years. And I will be going into detail explaining why. Including some rebuttals I have to people defending the perk. Let's begin.
Why Made For This is Unbalanced
1 - The speed boost is too accessible
Being injured is far too lenient a requirement for a near-permanent 3% speed boost. Despite having the 2nd lowest Haste effect of all Haste perks, Made For This manages to be the most powerful because of how easy the extra speed is to access. Every single other Haste perk requires at least some effort to either obtain or maintain the speed.
- Hope - Requires all 5 generators to be repaired
- Bloodpact & Teamwork: Power of Two - Requires another survivor to be healed and forces them to remain close to you
- Boon: Dark Theory - Requires lighting a boon and staying within 24 meters of it
The reason why Made For This is a problem but other haste perks aren't is that it requires so little effort to activate. Getting a speed boost of any kind is huge because it can make the difference between getting hit or reaching a pallet in time. There's a reason why most killers move only 15% than survivors. Tweaking the movement speed too much for either side will quickly lead to unbalanced games.
This is easily noticeable since Made For This is very commonly used now. And effectively grants whoever uses it a permanent 3% speed boost just by being injured. Survivors should not have access to something as powerful as Haste so easily.
2 - It can be used with certain Exhaustion Perks
The only other requirement that Made For This has to be activated besides being injured is to not be Exhausted. This is supposed to make it so you have to choose between the constant 3% Haste of Made For This and the 150% Haste of traditional Exhaustion perks. The problem is that you can still benefit from both.
Lithe, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing and Smash Hit, can all be activated at will when their conditions are met. Which means people who use Made For This can select their Exhaustion perk of choice and run for as long as possible before activating it. Getting maximum value from the 3% Haste from Made For This before getting the 150% Haste or Endurance from the aforementioned 4 perks when the killer is close to hitting them.
You get to have your cake and eat it too. The synergy that Made For This has with Exhaustion perks is far too great.
3 - It also gives you Endurance
There is no reason why a perk that can already massively extend the duration of chases should also allow you to get Endurance of any kind. Being rewarded with a constant 3% Haste while injured and being able to tank a hit after performing a heal is absurd. This is pure perk-bloat.
On it's own, (Or on a more fitting perk), this effect would be fine. It's the fact that it's packaged with an already powerful perk is what makes it unnecessary. Imagine if Sprint Burst also granted you extra unhooking speed. It simply doesn't need to be any more powerful.
Arguments against nerfing Made For This
"Getting 3% extra movement speed isn't that strong"
This argument shows a blatant lack of understanding of DbD's mechanics.
Moving 3% faster at all times is incredibly powerful. Since survivors have smaller collision boxes than killers they can circle around objects faster. Any extra movement speed they get will multiple the distance they can move around loops considerably. To the point that 110% movement speed killers simply cannot catch survivors at certain loops if the survivor is moving too fast.
A perk being able to give players that extra speed so easily is simply not balanced or fair to go against.
"Just exhaust survivors and you can easily disable the perk"
This argument ignores how powerful the perk is and relies on all killers being able to easily exhaust survivors for it to make sense. This is not the case.
Aside from the few killers that can apply exhaustion directly to survivors with their add-ons, Such as Huntress, most killers cannot exhaust survivors with running certain perks. And all of them are conditional. There's no way to guarantee that a survivor will be exhausted when you chase them.
And even if there was, you shouldn't be forced to run perks or add-ons just to counter a single perk. DbD is sorely lacking in viable build diversity and forcing already struggling killers that can't apply exhaustion with their power to all run Fearmonger will only make this problem worse.
"Made For This is only a problem when combined with other Haste perks like Hope. By itself, the perk is fine"
While it is certainly true that being able to run at 110% total movement speed once you reach the end-game is completely busted, that doesn't mean the perk by itself is fine.
To reiterate, what makes Made For This unbalanced compared to other exhaustion perks is the ease of use. All you have to do is just be injured and you get the haste.
If you were to run Bloodpact and Hope together you would be able to run 14% faster. 4% faster than Made For This and Hope. But only after you reach the end-game, heal the obsession or vice versa, and remain close to them. There's sufficient conditions to activate the haste to balance out how powerful it is.
Made For This only has 2 conditions to work. Both of which are incredibly easy to meet at all times. That is why it is unbalanced;
Made For This provides too much power for how easy that power is to access.
How to fix Made For This
Although I would like the perk to be nerfed, I also don't want it to be rendered useless. I believe it is possible to fix the problems the perk has whilst still keeping it useful.
- Remove the Endurance gained on finished healing. And move it to Buckle Up. There's no reason for the perk to grant Endurance given how much the 3% Haste already does. Buckle Up, on the other hand, is a perk that doesn't do enough. And being able to tank a hit while injured after you pick someone up would play to the perk's strengths and give it a much needed buff.
- After being in a chase for 20/25/30 seconds while injured, Made For This causes Exhaustion for 30 seconds. This change would allow the perk to remain useful during a chase whilst making it no longer overbearing. The 30 second exhaustion timer would allow players to choose to either run for as much distance as possible in hopes of losing the killer, or to use a 2nd exhaustion perk before the timer is up to gain more distance during a chase in exchange for a much longer exhaustion timer. Since both the Exhaustion of Made For This and other exhaustion perks would stack.
To be honest, I think if you completely removed the Haste, MFT would still be a very good perk. Just take away the Haste effect because it's fundamentally broken and then take away the exhaustion caveat.