LiveBritishReaction
LiveBritishReaction
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456220#Comment_3456220
So with that Id assume you also have a problem with every single license this game has
Yes. Licensed content is a gimmick meant to generate hype and money before it's a healthy addition to the game in 9 cases out of 10.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456835#Comment_3456835
Tell me being injured isn't scary vs:
Nurse
Blight
Spirit
Any of the stealth killers
Wesker
etc.
It still very much is a bad thing, given as though people still heal in the highest level of play. The whole point of these perks is to add a playstyle that's risk-oriented to preserve efficiency. If you choose not to heal, you get a bonus to your gameplay and can add 10+ seconds to your gens, but will remain at one healthstate and be trackable through sight and sound.
If DH still didn't require hooks, I would agree with you, since you'd have two health states always.
-Nurse, Blight, and Spirit are known outliers because they're, you know, game-breakingly strong. I don't really like to fall back to this defense but they very much do not count—hell, I've gone against Spirit with MFT more than once and being able to easily outpace her before she can start phasing makes a massive difference in your distance management and survivability.
-Being injured against a stealth killer is only really all that and a bag of chips against Wraith; the others have little to no mobility that prevents attentive survivors from outwitting and outrunning their stealth tactics.
-Wesker is eh; he's a balanced killer and if you can loop him while healthy, you can loop him while injured, especially if you have Made For This.
-"etc"
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456825#Comment_3456825
Can you quantify what you mean by "strength" then? Do you have stats or any data to demonstrate what perks you think are best?
Obviously, usage rates don't directly correlate to what helps people win the most but since we don't have access to those kind of stats (or at least, I don't), we need something tangible to discuss or else it's all just personal feelings and anecdotes.
So, in general, can we agree that people will bring whatever helps them the most in to a trial? If so, usage rates can help paint a picture of what is currently being used as it has the perception of being the most helpful. That was all I was trying to convey.
That last paragraph is very often not the case. Sure, being perceived as strong will encourage people to use something, but between strong things that people don't want to use because they're hard to use, strong things that don't get used because they're boring, strong things that don't get used because people don't think or realize that they're strong, and—last but certainly not least—the decently high percentage of players who either a) deliberately avoid using strong things for the sake of fun, virtue, challenge, or b) simply are appealed to more by specific builds or playstyles that aren't meta—on top of a myriad of other incidentals that I didn't list, collecting a bunch of raw, unrefined numbers is not a strong or helpful correlate very often. Especially in this game where RNG is a powerful determinant on the outcome of a match and the matchmaking is so broken to the point where the vast disparity of players in a match is so common and horridly skews numbers all the time.
There's plenty of examples where if you correlate usage rate and strength, the numbers will lie. Self-Care is still one of the top three most used survivor perks, for example, even though you and I can agree that it's pretty much on life support and is basically a fifth killer perk 99% of the time. And like I said earlier, Twins: The least played killer in the entire game bar none even though most people agree they're very strong.
That all is to say: No, I don't trust the numbers in this game and instead rely on deducing the theoretical strength of something through my understanding of how the game works, practical strength through testing it myself, and debating these ideas with others—which is what we SHOULD be doing instead of just slapping arbitrary numbers up on the screen.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456811#Comment_3456811
Just because you and others seem to think being injured is irrelevant doesn't mean that's how the game works.
It's not that it's irrelevant. It's that being injured isn't nearly as scary as you're painting it out to be, especially when you have a passive bonus to your distance management, AKA the core skill curve of chases in this game. Being injured should be a bad thing, but there were already perks that gave you a big offset to what risk there is to being injured like Resilience and Dead Hard, and MFT is far and away the biggest offset for what little risk there is to being injured that has ever been introduced to the game.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456808#Comment_3456808
The person I was replying to was saying that survivors got 2-3 meta perks in the past year while killers only got 1 seemingly based on their personal feelings on the perks. I was pointing out the actual usage rates that seem to contradict the narrative.
I made no statements on strength other than what is implied based on the playerbase making logical choices when selecting their perks.
And "meta" concerns strength, not use rate. It quite literally stands for "most effective tactic available." What's your point?
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This looks like you watched one Otzdarva tier list and then let that define your entire worldview.
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@Sharby said:
Unlike any of the other haste effects, this one requires you to be injured. Having one health state is plenty cost for a boost.
Pretending like its unconditional is dishonest.
The fact that this abhorrently reductive and ignorant reply has the same number of upvotes as the original post really makes me understand by BHVR has a reputation for not listening to community feedback.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456580#Comment_3456580
Survivor perks you mentioned usage rates:
Overzealous - 1.04%
Reactive Healing - .35% (lol at this one even being mentioned)
Reassurance - 3.35%
Hyperfocus - 1.51%
Potential Energy - .74%
Fogwise - 1.12%
Teamwork: Power of Two - .32%
Blood Rush - .54%
Killer perks since that time that all have higher usages rates:
Deadlock - 11.78%
Hex: Plaything - 4.44%
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance - 14.75%
Call of Brine - 5.21%
Nowhere to Hide - 10.24%
(Stats from Nightlight)
Because usage rate and actual strength are one and the same, right?
cough Twins cough
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MMR has always been a bruh moment. It's just functionally flawed. It's designed to do two things: Indicate your skill level, and match you with players of a similar rating. It does neither with even a semblance of accuracy.
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It's crazy how BHVR takes years and years to implement changes and yet they somehow still feel like knee-jerk reactions.
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Doctor, kinda. Not much though.
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You say that until you get one singular match of a zoning and/or 3-gen killer which is like half the roster these days and then you'll come crawling back begging to be wesked.
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Not even a little bit.
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@wimpy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423615#Comment_3423615
Yes, of course I did MORI. But you said "it's literally impossible to do it without getting, at the bare minimum, 2 sacrifices during the endgame collapse" and I just proved you wrong.
*Maybe my calculator is just broken and you are right....
It's up to the player to decide which of those is more difficult, and I agree that neither approach is easy.
So, what did you accomplish? You proved that by running an ultra rare addon and jumping through hoops, my statement was off by one EGC hook. Congrats?
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@Jejune said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423593#Comment_3423593
I dont see people healing others with medkits so they failed.
I'm guessing because they're so used to hogging medkits and are so poor at coordinating that they haven't yet really adapted to healing others with their medkits yet.
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@wimpy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417491#Comment_3417491
it's literally impossible to do it without getting, at the bare minimum, 2 sacrifices during the endgame collapse
Really?
Yes.
1 hook action is 500 points, 1 hook phase is 200. 700 per hook.
If you hook someone during the EGC, you get a bonus 250 points, and another 500 if they die. Add that to the base hook score, it's 1450 bloodpoints.
If you hook 11 people during the match before EGC starts, you get 7700 points. You have room for one more hook which is obviously a sacrifice. 7700 + 1450 = 9150. If it's 10 hooks and the last person is on second stage, then that progression into the sacrifice phase compared to having a full separate hook action would be a net loss of 500 points. The only way to break 10k is to get another full hook action, at which point it can only be 2 survivors on death hook.
There's something you're not showing me in this video. Did you mori any of the survivors? A mori on someone who's been hooked twice would net 300 points more than the third hook sans EGC, and even then you'd still need at least one sacrifice during the EGC because (1400 + 1000) x 4 = 9600. You would need either an Ebony mori, or need to 2-hook everyone twice and then mori 3 of them with Devour, before EGC hooking the last survivor—both of which are entirely unreasonable hoops you'd need to jump through just to fill out one bloodpoint category if you ask me.
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Not really. The visual TR is just the three layers of the TR music/heartbeat in visual form. Spine Chill is a gradient that shows you exactly how far in the TR you are.
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@ehe said:
he has fair and fun counterplay, and is generally unique and engaging.
That mobility can be completely eliminated by survivors at any time, and if he TPs while sealing then he had to stop what he was doing. Typically that means he was either looking for a survivor or in a chase, and no demo is gonna give up chase to stop a portal seal. It also has a relatively long cooldown. And about the 3 gen demogorgon... gen kick perks are dead, 3 gens are significantly easier to break now. If he goes to chase anyone that progress you get is practically guaranteed to stay there.
What? Hes like if skull merchant could tp to drones? Unlike the mid merchant, he doesnt expose or track survivors. Her 3 gen is WAY better than his. Like, just because they can both place something that potentially scans nearby survs does not make them the same. Demo only scans so he can actually defend portals well. The time to teleport is long enough to get to a loop every time, and sealing a portal is really fast anyways. And he has to go around placing each one again if you break them.
His "insanely good zoning" has a visual and audio cue, along with a charge up. it has a long range but can still be dodged, so you often need to predict where the survivor is going. Meaning that his power is more fun mindgames at loops. Speaking of demo at loops, his power only does jack at really long loops (which are already very good for survivor) and shack. You can bait him into dashing into a walk, window, etc etc and then if you pull it off you get massive distance.
no way you out here complaining about the demopupper, one of the least played killers and one of the most balanced.
"is generally unique and engaging."
Shred is a generic mid-range zoning tool that bucketloads of other killers have done before. Matter of fact, most killers who do the same thing have some kind of gimmick that makes them more unique than Demo. Pyramid Head does the same thing but goes through walls. Nemesis does the same thing but goes over short loops. Trickster does the same thing but fast. Victor does the same thing but plays with the Z-axis a lot more creatively. Deathslinger does the same thing but can get you through tiny holes.
I bet you wouldn't call any of those killers "unique and engaging."
"That mobility can be completely eliminated by survivors at any time, and if he TPs while sealing then he had to stop what he was doing."
That mobility takes a good while to be disabled, can be replaced at the tap of a button, and in a 3-gen scenario "stopping what he's doing" is hardly an issue when what he's doing is kicking a gen and then leaving to kick another one.
"Unlike the mid merchant, he doesnt expose or track survivors."
Portals can literally track survivors. Read the addon description for lifeguard whistle, and then understand that such a feature is in his base kit only he has to tap M2 to activate it without using the addon.
"His "insanely good zoning" has a visual and audio cue, along with a charge up."
The charge up is barely faster than a Deathslinger ADS, and having a reactable cue doesn't matter when how you react is null and void. It especially doesn't matter when it's easy for Demogorgon to just not commit to the Shred and M1 you. That's what zoning is, and he is, indeed, insanely good at it.
"no way you out here complaining about the demopupper"
If you unironically say the word "demopupper" I lose all ability to take your opinion on balance seriously. It's that stupid neckbeard Redditor boop the snoot-esque attitude that lets this killer get away with being so poorly designed and getting praised for it.
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@crogers271 said:
dislike going against Demogorgon on account of how annoying he is both to be chased by and to engage with in a 3-gen scenario.No one can tell you what you find fun or not, but most people seem generally confused why you would find Demo unfun given the other killers in the game.
Others have asked this and I don't think you've answered: what killers do you find it fun to play against?
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Demo is one of my favorite killers to face while playing survivor. He has options on how he plays, but none of them seem overpowered.
Well, generally speaking the killers I dislike going against are zoning machines (Demogorgon, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, etc.) and killers who do hit and run (Wraith, Dredge, Legion). So to answer the question of "Which killers do you like to face?" just find a killer who isn't in either category. Wesker, Billy, Oni, Sadako; hell, I'll take a Twins over a zoner/hit-and-runner any day of the week.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417651#Comment_3417651
You can't honestly think that demogorgon is anywhere near the top.
... What? Firstly, where did you get that, secondly, I literally made these points using the EXACT DATA you so triumphantly touted. And, again, I reiterate, who bloody cares what his kill rate is?
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@ehe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417535#Comment_3417535
If the survivor at shack doesnt vault and demo doesnt shred, then they just lost the mindgame. If demo is at that distance where he needs to shred for the hit, the survivor has enough distance to either fake the vault, or just run back out and keep looping. If they arent far enough to do that, chances are demo could just make the lunge normally and they lost that chase.
Shack is one of the strongest tiles in the game, it just so happens that demo shred and shred-esque abilities counter shack quite well. Run them on the weaker loops and they cant do much.
9
That is blatantly false. The distance from the window to the door at shack is not a great distance at all; if you struggle to manage your distance with your zoning in that scenario than that's on you. You can easily catch up to a survivor who jukes the window.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417598#Comment_3417598
I like the part where i showed you the data, and you ignore that and continue attacking a different point. Pretty sure that's a different logical fallacy.
I ignored the data because it has no relevance to the conversation. Not only are kill rates from from a be-all-end-all, especially in a game like DBD where the matchmaking system is piss-poor and luck and loadouts often have just as big of or even a bigger influence on the outcome of a match than killers or actual skill, but just because other killers have higher kill rates does not change the fact that I greatly dislike going against Demogorgon on account of how annoying he is both to be chased by and to engage with in a 3-gen scenario. Just because some other killers are broken messes doesn't make me enjoy Demogorgon more. "Strong" and "unfun" are not synonymous; hell, Trickster gets nothing but hate even though his kill rate is the lowest in the entire game.
By your logic:
-I should absolutely despise going against Billy, Pig, and Myers, because their kill rates are higher than Demo's
-My most hated killer should be Wesker because his kill rate is the highest
-Dredge, Plague, and Wesker are all in more dire need of "prioritization" because their kill rates are higher than Nurse's at the top 5%
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417574#Comment_3417574
Also, it isn't whataboutism, it is quite literally prioritization. The devs have shown for years now, that despite being a company with like 1k employees, they can't ever do more than 1 or 2 things at once. And most of the time, that is delegated to releasing a new killer, and then balancing the new killer in the following patch. Midchapters are relegated to changing like 6 perks, because god forbid they make more 3 changes to the game at a time. Rarely do we get a small addon pass with some killers, and we get like a total rework once a year maybe.
Once every 2 years they decide to actually do something and make sweeping changes, but we probably won't see that for another year or so at this point.
The point is, prioritization is important. And there are far far more things that are more important to change, than to change a killer who is arguably underpowered (and maybe unfun in some people's eyes) that isn't actually available to be purchased in the store anymore, and will overtime fade into complete obscurity.
Also, your argument quite literally is whataboutism. The very spitting image of whataboutism. Your response to me saying "Demogorgon is oppressive and unfun to play against" is "But what about Nurse?"
Yeah, Nurse is strong. I still hate going against Demogorgon. Way more than Nurse, in fact. Your whataboutism does not invalidate anything I said.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417535#Comment_3417535
In that shack example the survivor can bait the window, if the demo doesn't shred they can just go to the shack pallet, if they see demo cancel shred you drop the pallet and waste time if he keeps it you crouch tech him, literally 3 opportunities to counterplay idk if you really need more.
If you go to the pallet he just... keeps holding his Shred and puts you in that same situation I described above with the pallet. Any Demo with half a braincell won't fall for a crouch tech, so if you run to the pallet then you either drop the pallet and it breaks and you get hit because he loses no distance, juke and get hit with an M1 attack because he loses no distance, or run through it and get hit with an M1 attack because he loses no distance.
So much counterplay.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417574#Comment_3417574
Also, it isn't whataboutism, it is quite literally prioritization. The devs have shown for years now, that despite being a company with like 1k employees, they can't ever do more than 1 or 2 things at once. And most of the time, that is delegated to releasing a new killer, and then balancing the new killer in the following patch. Midchapters are relegated to changing like 6 perks, because god forbid they make more 3 changes to the game at a time. Rarely do we get a small addon pass with some killers, and we get like a total rework once a year maybe.
Once every 2 years they decide to actually do something and make sweeping changes, but we probably won't see that for another year or so at this point.
The point is, prioritization is important. And there are far far more things that are more important to change, than to change a killer who is arguably underpowered (and maybe unfun in some people's eyes) that isn't actually available to be purchased in the store anymore, and will overtime fade into complete obscurity.
So, because numbers say Nurse is strong, and playing with friends is a sin against God, that means I am not allowed to dislike going against an annoying, zoning 3-gen killer?
Your logic is flawless.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417535#Comment_3417535
examine yourself. Why are you complaining about demo, when nurse and blight and SWF exist. Priorities
Examine yourself. Do you have any more of an argument beyond fallacious whataboutism?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417489#Comment_3417489
I don’t believe this is true. It was a little better in that I think you could feel hopeful if you saw your teammates doing useful things (gens), but it didn’t really stop survivors from doing use*less* things.
"it didn't really stop survivors from doing useless things"
So it's not a solo queue issue then. It's a skill issue.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417479#Comment_3417479
Its more than that, the charge time is a second, and you aren't going to launch it literally at a second, because it is super super telegraphed, so you'll need to hold it for at least 2 maybe 3 seconds to see what the survivor is doing (unless you know they vaulted or you are trying to make a read on a pallet like shack or something).
The charge doesn't happen in a vacuum, you aren't charging for the minimum time exactly every single time. I generally need to hold the charge for at least 2-3 seconds to bait the survivor into doing something, or to cancel it. During which time they likely had time to round a corner if i guess wrong.
My point wasn't to compare the killers, my point was for you to see exactly how slow 4% slower than survivors really is. And playing nurse is the easiest way to do it, since i'm assuming you don't have demo otherwise you wouldn't be making such a thread about probably the most balanced killer in the game.
It takes 0.65 seconds to hit minimum charge and 1 second to hit maximum, and you don't start slowing down until you hit minimum charge. If you're actively holding it to bait something out, then you're either zoning and will only need to hold it long enough to get the bait you want of not vaulting a window or not dropping a pallet, which takes like half a second of holding out Shred at most, or the survivor is actively juking, and at 96.25% movement speed, doing anything other than running in a straight line directly away from you means you're getting free distance.
Outside of that, there really is no reason you should be holding it for any considerable length of time. If you're actually going for a shot, you should be making a prediction to how the survivor will react rather than holding it for so long, and while that does have some skill, compared to most ranged attacks in this game the prediction is a pretty basic toss-up with a very forgiving hitbox.
Let's use shack as an example. Shack is the go-to hypothetical. You're at the door where there isn't a pallet, and the survivor is running towards the window. You pull out your Shred. Either the survivor vaults the window and gets Shredded because of animation lock, or they juke into you, and you just exit Shred and M1 them. If they run towards the pallet, if they do anything other than predrop the pallet, it's the same story, and even then Shred breaks pallets very quickly so you lose only a small amount of distance, especially if you have Barb's Glasses equipped.
Shred is a very strong and easy to use zoning tool. And putting all this aside, even if the reduction in movement truly were all that bad, Rat Liver is a brown addon that can be run every single game without issue and completely nullifies the distance loss argument.
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I've seen more than a few antiheal Wesker builds with Coulrophobia, but I really like the one I use: Coulro, Distressing, Terminus, and No Way Out. Wesker has a big TR by default, and Distrassing makes it even bigger, so you're getting tons of Coulrophobia value, and then if you've been chasing well and getting good hook pressure, not only is No Way Out a good perk on its own, but because Terminus only deactivates 30 seconds after a gate has been opened, 4 NWO tokens guarantees that, at the absolute bare minimum, survivors spend almost 2 full minutes after the gens are powered completely unable to heal thanks to Terminus. It's NOED but better with this build.
I know there are like 5 Twins players on the planet but if any of them can read this—I'm not exaggerating when I say that Dark Devotion is legitimately one of their best perks. Victor can activate DD despite not having a Terror Radius, and the obsession's TR stays even if you're playing as Victor, so having a fake TR on the map as a killer whose Terror Radius uptime is inconsistent and sporadic messes with survivors SO bad. Stealthy Charlotte gets people just as much as Victor hiding inside of a Terror Radius he's not supposed to coexist with. It's so good and I never take it off on my Twins.
As survivor: Just look at my pfp lol. Solidarity4Lyfe
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Yes, actually, though it was usually with a friendly killer.
As killer, though? Never once received 40k BP because it's literally impossible to do it without getting, at the bare minimum, 2 sacrifices during the endgame collapse (source: I did the math, and you can find it here https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/355289/sacrifice-score-events-need-to-be-increased-a-bit#latest).
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Solo queue became so much better after the HUD update that it made me actually enjoy playing the role again. I think it's in a better spot than it's been in for a long time.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416908#Comment_3416908
Try playing nurse for a bit, and just spend a few seconds chasing a survivor without using your power, and you'll realize how much slower 4% actually is.
Right, because playing as a killer who constantly moves slower than survivors vs. a regular 115 killer who only enters that speed for less than half a second is totally comparable.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416834#Comment_3416834
He's full of it, it literally is a commitment because charging the shred makes you move slower than a survivor unless he uses an addon that makes him move at exactly the same speed as a survivor. Missing a shred is also punishing as well and the survivor will gain more distance depending on the circumstances.
Moving less than 4 percent slower than a running survivor for a length of time whose frames are countable on one hand is a commitment?
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@AverageKateMain said:
The only 1 annoying thing about him is zoning but he has to commit for a shred while other killers who are ranged don't have to do too much like demo. He's a fair killer
In what way does he have to commit? He gets little to no slowdown and ever since Deathslinger's ADS nerf, Shred is the only zoning power that you can just tap and feather. Every single other ranged killer is much slower on the draw and requires much more commitment and better positioning.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416788#Comment_3416788
You have 3 portals on 3 generators for a 3 gen, you have 3 pocket portals that once placed wont be cleansed if survivors are not AI, so you can effectively use a pocket portal 3 times in your 3 gen.
Regarding zoning demos shred attack is a way easier attack to avoid than say nemesis tentacle which is subjected to strafe tech or pyramid head with flicks, you can bait demo incredibly easy or put object inbetween to make him collide.
He can zone all he wants but if you have good routing you can absolutely be sure that shred wont present a thread to you.
But alas this discussion wont get anywhere, I cannot convince you a killer you deemed something already is not that thing, and as such you cannot also convince the makority of players that a killer that is widely consider to be mid at best is anything else.
You could also place the 3 portals in a somewhat smart location so they're not out of reach once used. Is it really that hard?
As for dodging Shred, do you know how zoning works? I've said it before and I'll say it again, the reason Demogorgon is so good at zoning is if you try to juke his Shred, he receives no punishment for just exiting it and hitting you with an M1. That's why Pyramid Head is good at zoning, that's why Nemesis is good at zoning, that's why Deathslinger is good at zoning, and that's why Demogorgon is good at zoning.
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@squbax said:
Idk why OP openly asks why are people not bothered by demo and when given reasons why, they just state its incorrect, demo is easy af to destroy, he cannot tp whenever and whereever he wants because he needs a portal under him to do it, which limits a lot the supposed 3 gen capability and since a demo zoning has reduced movement speed you can bait/get behind cover, you can also crouch tech him.
His stealth is non-existant thanks to his loud sound cues, making it literally imposible for him to surprise you, he has do many counters avaliable, if he catches you outside a deadzone you goofed up.
Pocket portals are an easy strat to pull, especially since he won't need all 6 portals in most situations. Just because he's not Blight doesn't mean he doesn't have great mobility.
And Shred's reduced movement speed, again, is zilch. It has such little uptime and is barely slower than a running survivor. You can just feather your Shred for free zoning and literally not even receive a movespeed penalty. There are several killers that have much, MUCH more cumbersome movement speed penalties and are still fantastic zoners. Demogorgon is a zoner, and a very strong one, movement speed penalty be damned.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416761#Comment_3416761
I mean, you can make up excuses for dying to Trapper as well but...
What a fantastic, well-constructed, insightful counterpoint.
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@Chadku said:
Imagine complaining about best boi and comparing him to Scum Merchant
I'll take Meme Merchant over Demo any day of the week lol. She does one thing, she doesn't do it well, and Demo does it better.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416737#Comment_3416737
If you start clearing a portal right after he's used his teleport, it's impossible for him to get back through it before you've destroyed it unless using certain add ons. Two survivors working on it makes it impossible flat out.
Shred works in a straight line, you can bait it out and Demo will fly right past you, leaving you unharmed.
This is like complaining about Trapper being too OP.
If you try to cleanse the portal, Demogorgon will see you doing it, and unless he flew across the entire map, there is no way he won't be able to just walk back to you and smite you down. Plus, that time you spend doing a portal, which is a good while, is time you spend not doing the gen, so he's still getting good stall.
As for baiting Shred—if you start juking to the side instead of running away from him, his movement speed is fast enough that he'll just catch up and hit you point blank, especially if he's running Rat Liver. And if his mechanical skill is so poor that doing even that is too hard, then he'll just exit Shred and hit you normally. That's what makes him a good zoning killer. Same with Pyramid Head or Deathslinger. He doesn't get punished for not committing to a Shred mindgame... well, ever, really.
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@AssortedSorting said:
His anti-loop has a mobility commitment that means moment to moment chase gameplay is ripe with mindgames and potential counterplay.
It's hardly a commitment though. The movement speed penalty is virtually zero, and the time to either enter or exit Shred is of similar insignificance to Demogorgon's positioning.
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@Seraphor said:
Oh look, someone is complaining about Demogorgon again, one of the weakest killers in the game.
- Portals can be destroyed faster than he can teleport to them.
- Shred can be dodged very easily.
The reason you struggle against demo might be because he's so unpopular (because he's not strong, and because he's no longer available) which means the only killers who play him and those who play him a lot, they're Demo mains, they know how to use him very well.
Both of those are false. Portal cooldown is obscenely short and Shred is one of the easiest abilities to hit mechanically. Its hitbox is huge, and the charge time/movement speed penalties are virtually nonexistent if he wants to zone or do anything noncomittal.
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For Twins, definitely Lynxi. There's knowing how to do bland comp strats that any killer can do, and then there's actually pushing the killer to its limits like Lynxi does.
Huntress, JordiRex. Insane predictions and tile knowledge.
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Much as it pains me to admit it, Nemesis.
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ahem
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@liamdicaprio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408881#Comment_3408881
why do you think its called 2nd chance perk?
So you admit, the perk is relied on by people who need a free mistake corrector?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408876#Comment_3408876
Genuinely, what are you talking about?
Key differences between Skull Merchant and....Trapper with Surveillance: The drones apply the exposed the status effect. The drones mask her TR. The Skull Merchant gets a passive haste buff for every claw trap on a survivor. To avoid the the exposed status, survivors must wait 10 seconds for the active mode to expire on a fresh drone and then hack the drone.
Not to mention, the Skull Merchant can use perks like PWYF to make bouncing between 3 gens and not committing to anything even faster on top of her passive haste. So the notion that it's very easy to pick away at the gens between the haste stacking and her drones ignores basically all the variables that come into play in a game of DbD. Not every gen in a 3 gen is always workable depending on the gen location, map RNG, and killer loadout.
The players chiming in thinking every game of DbD is played in a vacuum where everything is ideal are extremely inexperienced. Or players saying to "yo-yo" the gens. You know what makes that unrealistic? A killer moving at 120+% between PWYF and claw traps, and needing to avoid the exposed status because of the killer speed with 1 gen on a hill, 1 in a deadzone in the middle of the 3 gen, and 1 safe.
I would have loved for that to be a Trapper with Surveillance. Easiest game of my life.
The Haste, Exposed, and stealth are all so borderline ineffectual, especially given how easy it is to just disable her drones entirely, that they are completely negligible in factoring in one's ability to actively pressure gens as a powerless M1 killer. On paper, they sound super neat, but in practice, she really is just a killer with basekit Surveillance as her entire power if you try to hold a 3 gen.
"PWYF" any killer can do the exact same thing with that perk. Find obsession, get stack, run back to gen, rinse and repeat. Skull Merchant has no synergy with PWYF that any other M1 killer shouldn't also have.
Her power is not a threat. And if she's not a threat, she's not going to be good at forcing survivors off gens. And if she's not good at forcing survivors off gens, she's not a good 3 gen killer.
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@liamdicaprio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408302#Comment_3408302
its beeb less then a week and its already bad. put it that way
Or maybe people just need more time to commence with the gitting of the gud?
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408271#Comment_3408271
People still think its not entirely her raison d'etre? Especially now the maps consistently spawn 2 gens within sight of each other?
Here's a fun experiment. Try to hold a 3-gen as Trapper without ever using his traps. But, you're allowed to equip Surveillance in your perk build.
Congratulations, you've fully recreated what Skull Merchant's power does in a 3-gen. She is an M1 killer with basekit Surveillance. If you run that perk on any other killer, you are by default a better 3-gen killer than Skull Merchant, because you are getting the entire effective value of Skull Merchant's power in a 3-gen plus the effective value of the actual killer's power.
Skull Merchant is terrible at holding 3-gens. If you get 3-genned by Skull Merchant, especially now that Overcharge and Brine are completely dead, it's genuinely just a skill issue.
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My guy it's been less than a week, calm down
