Leachy_Jr
Leachy_Jr
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I'm sorry i am absolutely TERRIFIED for that perk at high level play. Literally almost everyone uses pop against good teams and it can come in clutch for most games against genrush squads who solo gens.
Could be me overreacting but I think it's going to plague high ranks not as much as DS, but something as much as BT.
Why was this perk even invented in the first place? Pop isn't OP and it absolutely did not need such a hard counter.
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@USELESS said:
Having some trouble with gen rushers any good build especially for trapper and doctor?
NOED.
Put all of the "eww noed" thoughts aside, use it.
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I would absolutely adore a competitive scene for this game, but unfortunately, the amount of RNG and bugs kinda kill this games competative aspects.
Want to play nurse? Heres a bunch of random deadzones.
Want to play spirit? Heres the chance of survivors making no audio due to a bug thats been in the game for like what? 6 months? and it can destroy a game for a spirit.
Even down to the tiles you get it's RNG, and one pallet at competitive play can possibly either get the killer a 1k or 3k. Doesn't help that literally every second literally has an impact on the match.
I could go on with how powerful survivors actually are at that level but id have to write a full novel to explain it.
I just don't think adding any rules could make this game fun and fair at a tournament level. Don't get me wrong IMO this game is competitive, but ever since ruin was removed its just waaaay to RNG dependent and completely in the survivors control.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269517#Comment_1269517
Whats wrong with unbreakable?
Rewards the survivors for messing up and it has too much of an impact.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
Lets say you were a dev for a day what changes would you make?
1: Add second objective so the game is actually balanced and more fun.
2: Add something that closes the gap between SWF and solo and rework perks accordingly (like a map wide bond).
3: Delete/rework DS, Unbreakable, Object and make so BT works in it's proper situations.
4: Nerf moris and keys once I know that everything is mostly balanced.
Aaaaand when that's all done:
5: Adjust any perk that is unbalanced (whether it's too weak or too strong).
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@Meroko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263565#Comment_1263565
BT doesn't work against Stealth killers, so not just scratched mirror myers. It also doesn't work against Freddy at all unless you're awake. So yeah, BT can be useless for a lot of killers
BT technically doesn't work against stealth killers, but it creates situations where its a free escape anyway:
- Cloaked wraith - Free unhook, you can bodyblock for the unhooked guy
- Pig - Free unhook cause shes crouched, can bodyblock again
- Ghostface in stealth - Only a very well timed stealth activation will work here, but you can bait unhook and put him on cooldown
- Myers - Terror radius isn't small enough
- Freddy - Make an awake survivor unhook so BT activates, another survivor bodyblockes the unhooker.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
Who are some of your favorite content creators who focus on a single Killer or a few Killers? I'm working on a project and I'd like to put together a list of players who have Mastered at least one Killer.
Example: Umbra is known as an excellent Huntress player and would be a good fit for this project. Tru3Talent is known for playing all killers well, but has no main and is essentially a Jack of all Trades but a Master of None. This would prevent him from being part of this project.
I'm particularly interested in learning about smaller content creators who you think deserve more attention than they currently receive as a master of their preferred killer. A content creator that you would watch in order to learn a particular killer.
Ideally I would end up with a list of creators for each available killer, with no creator listed more than twice.
Thanks for your help :)
Trapper: EntitysLeftHand, Otz (tentative)
Wraith:
Hillbilly:
Nurse:
Shape:
Hag:
Doctor:
Huntress: Umbra
Leatherface:
Freddy:
Pig: Scorpionz
Clown:
Spirit:
Legion:
Plague:
Ghost:
Demogorgon:
Oni:
Deathslinger:
Ill name a ton:
Wraith: possibly marth, but doesn't play dbd much currently.
Billy: 100% Battleguy, he has an insane number of hours in billy.
Hag: Michi is good, also hi space big fan :D
I don't have a link to michis content unfortunately :(
Doctor: Druid is pretty good, don't know any others tho
Clown: There was a clown named techy but i can't find any content on him, plus i think he quit dbd.
Legion: Hewie in my opinion is better than raging, he has the most downs in deep wound at about 8000. Theres also a personal favorite at 2nd place called "frank_is_tired"
Plague: Fungoose is a pretty good plague, dunno if he mains her tho.
Demo: Bronx is the demo main.
Bronxs Twitch
Oni: Scott
Thats all i can think of, i hope all my links are correct as well. :D
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
Heyo, so today I wanna talk about my top 3 killers, their playstile and my opinion on each one. This is just my opinion and you're welcome to argue with me in the comments.
Let's start with the strongest of the bunch, imo, good old Sally, the nurse. People believe that she's useless because of her rework, but I absolutely believe that the rework was a success. The cooldown was well deserved and her add-ons aren't awful anymore (except the red add-ons which I believe are the worst red add-ons in the game). Nurse is the hardest to both play and master character because she doesn't get looped normally, you need to predict accurately where she's gonna go. A good nurse predicts your predictions and can dominate easily. Nurse is the most non-addon dependant killer, unlike for example wraith, and when you get good with her she's extremely strong. Something I don't actually enjoy is her huge skill cap. I tried to learn her for more than a month, and I decided to stop because I had severe depression after all those loses.
Let's continue with spirit, my personal favorite and main. She is loopable only when she doesn't have her ability and she's not as braindead as other killers. Imo, trying to master spirit is extremely difficult, and I can say that even tho I main her for more than 3 months, I have definitely not mastered her. She relies on the tiny details, for example, did that bush just move, or are the brunches of this bush a bit wider, or did she double back? I can't hear her footsteps anymore ect. Once you get decent with her she's gonna be extremely powerful. A weakness is that she is add-on dependant. You can play with different playstiles, but if you don't know how to track, hear and predict, you're gonna have a bad time.
Last one on my list is Billy. Where can I even start with this unit of a killer? He has insane map control and a saw that can oneshot. Once you get the hang of him you will dominate the trials. Even tho behavior says he's easy to play on his profile, he's not at all. You need to learn the stability of his chainsaw, where to m2 and where to m1, how to drift like crazy ect. Unlike the others, he is known for his fun matches on both sides. He's both fun to play as an against and he's incredibly satisfying. He's not that much add-on dependant but I do think he needs to have em checked.
What do you guys think? Let me know down below.
Here's a hot take:
1 - Spirit - Uncounterable, with some mobility.
2 - Nurse - Uncounterable, but buggy and unreliable. Some maps are a pain.
3 - Deathslinger - Uncounterable, but no mobility or pressure.
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@AhoyWolf said:
Thank you so much for fixing Legion lagging when vaulting over pallets and windows, that's nice.
But what is that loss of momentum after vaulting a pallet? It feels awful, I don't remember being it like this.
I hope that it is a bug, because it feels awful to vault a pallet then stop and being unable to move for like a half a second.
Legion has always lost momentum when vaulting a pallet (edit: and window) i'm pretty sure, unless while vaulting you stop holding w (or forward) and then hold w a little while after while still in the vault animation. For some reason when you do this you just fly away from the vault father than if you just kept holding forward and you keep momentum.
I don't want them to patch the loss of momentum though, helps to hit people who are trying to juke you by technically window tecing you. And if you want to keep momentum while vaulting a window you can do what i said earlier.
They might of patched that though as i haven't played Legion nearly as much as i usually do, but for the few games i played i really didn't feel a difference.
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@RepliCant said:
Nothing in the patchnotes talks about him, even though you can see through walls during his chainsaw cooldown and pallets break extremely fast
According to a billy main I know curving is a lot harder now as the curve speed at the start of the sprint is really weird. Overall i'd say he's just really janky and annoying to play.
Peanits said in another thread that his bugs are being worked on though, so that's good.
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@Stinde said:
WARNING! Long post, TLDR at the end.
Hey everyone,
I'd like to start by telling the amount of experience I have with this game. I have played since April 2018, have over 1.5K hours (I'm PS4 player so it is just an approximated amount), I'm devotion 8 level 80 and have a platinum for this game. I play about 65/35 survivor/killer, play both roles every gaming session and have played all the killers but mostly focus on 9 of them. Even tried to learn nurse three times on console (over 50 matches). I'm red rank on both sides. I have followed the forums for over a year now, reading a lot of threads and upvoting comments i agree on, even if I haven't been very active with commenting myself.
I'm a solo survivor, have been doing fine with all the balance changes and I am overall happy about the direction the game is going. I'm glad the devs started reworking/buffing weaker killers and finally balanced some of the maps. I find the survivor side being easier and killer being more stressful and that's the reason for playing more survivor. Now I don't like being spoonfed in games. I have always liked challenges, that's why I have played all the soulsborne games multiple times and am addicted to roguelikes like The Binding of Isaac. If I'm having difficulties I go to youtube and find a video to learn to get better. I have learned the counters to nurse, to spirit, to new doctor etc.
Now, finally to the topic after this lenghty introduction. Freddy is the only killer I have a problem with playing against. I have tried different playstyles and tactics but nothing seems to work. I'm starting to come into conclusion that Freddy has too much going for him. Most Freddy players I have played against aren't that good, they can't get the first hit while survivor is awake but it does not matter since Freddy can just wait the survivor to fall asleep and spam the snares. Trap the loop, go through the pallet. If Freddy has difficulties, just camp with inbuild counter to borrowed time. If you are doing well, just go dominate even more with good map pressure and pop. Most of the time the Freddy players I have encountered have proxy camped and tunneled and at the end swept the floor clean with NOED if the match reached end game.
Now as I wrote that paragraph I realise it might seem like an unreasonable rant. But no, my intention is not to yell "I LOST, NERF FREDDY!" I have no problem with camping and tunneling because there is time and place for those tactics in some games and most killers don't play like that anyway. I have no problem with NOED. My experience just is that Freddy has all the tools with no downsides and barely skill required. It feels you are doomed no matter what. I bought the Nightmare on Elmstreet chapter after Freddy's rework and got the adept on first try, without sweating like with every other killer adepts. In one of the last streams last year the devs said that Freddy is the most lethal killer, it was around when everyone wanted spirit nerfed. So if the Spirit was overperforming then, my experience is that Freddy is starting to be at the same level. Also as a solo survivor I have no way to tell my teammate who is asleep being chased that what pallets are real if I'm awake or what area I triggered all the snares at if I'm asleep. This is one of those cases that SWF have clear advantage compared to solos.
So I would like to discuss about Freddy. What would be a good solution to rise skill ceiling with Freddy? Should some counterplay mechanism be added? Do you have tips for me and others who struggle against Freddy? Is there a good compromise to be found so that it feels skillbased playing against Freddy without robbing him his power?
My suggestions are:
1. Have the alarm that wakes the survivor up be random or change it to be not the one farthest away and not the closest one but some of those in middle range.
2. When a snare or dream pallet is triggered give a bubble notification to other players same way the doctor's shock gives. That way even solos can work together to counter Freddy's power.
3. Maybe lenghten the time it takes to fall asleep a bit, maybe 15 seconds or something. This would reward Freddy players that can mindgame awake survivors and punish those who just wait survivors to fall asleep.
4. Revert the change that gave Freddy the undetectable status effect when survivors are asleep. That was unnecessary addition to his already powerful toolkit.
Please keep this discussion civil and I hope that everyone who contributes gives reasoning behind their suggestions/claims.
Even if Freddy will never be changed again I will keep continuing to try getting better at playing against him and not giving up. Thank you for reading.
TLDR: Freddy has a very diverse power that works even when the player playing him is not that good. Could there be a way to rise the skill ceiling when playing Freddy? What would be a reasonable way to add counterplay against him but not nerfing him back to weak level?
I play Freddy a noticeable amount, possibly my second most played killer under Legion. I see many peoples issues with Freddy and I can easily tell when i'm being a total pain in the ass to play against, which isn't because of my playstyle (I never use forever Freddy, never tunnel unless needed, never camp unless needed, etc...), but because of the teammates not having long chases.
Freddy thrives off of short chases, it's his make or break whether he's gonna have a 20 second chase, or a 70 second chase and that's what people fail to understand and what people need to play around. He's horrible at switching targets and it's why pop is so god damn good on him.
This causes him to be an absolute stomper against bad to mediocre teams with very little skill required, however, I don't have a problem with that. If the team is playing bad then it shouldn't require much skill to actually beat them. When it comes to actual good teams however you'll notice your decision making as the Freddy player really matters and where the skill cap on him is truly tested. You need to know when to fake tp or actually tp, know when to and where to set snares, your chase game needs to be on point etc. I guarantee most players who say he has no skilful things going for him would be destroyed if they versed a good team.
More importantly he's actually fun asf against a good squad.
Personally I only have one hate against Freddy and that how he gets passive pressure with Forever Freddy, other than that I have no issue going against addon-less Freddy as I know that if I lose it's most likely me and the team playing bad.
As for changes, i really wouldn't do anything to him. If anything id buff his CD on his gen TP to promote a more hit and run playstyle and not a "tunnel someone down" playstyle.
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@Joelwino said:
I understand why Pop and NOED exist, and I don't think they're unnecessary perks on most killers. But against the top tier killers, they become too strong. It is widely agreed that the counter to NOED is to do bones, but against a good Nurse, Spirit, Billy or Freddy you simply don't have the time to do bones against them. You have to hold M1 on gens any time you aren't being chased just to have a chance at winning the game. So guess what happens? If you waste time doing bones against them, you lose the game because you wasted too much time not doing gens. If you hold M1 on gens, you get hit with NOED because you didn't do totems.
The same thing applies to Pop. If it's a good Nurse, Spirit, Billy or Freddy then they can just pop everything almost constantly and no one can get gens done against them. I understand the need for Pop and NOED on killers like Pig, Legion, Clown, Leatherface, Doctor and so on but on high tier killers it's just too oppressive.
Pop is countered by having a long chase and tag teaming gens, if you know the killer has pop, do this. Prove thyself is about to be hella meta with the current pop meta on killers.
Lets assume it's a nurse:
- 2 people on a gen - 40 seconds
- Finding a survivor - 5 seconds at a bare minimum
- Hitting survivor once (assume 2 blinks and recovery) - about 10 seconds
- Hitting survivor again - about 10 seconds
- Process of hooking a survivor (pickup, etc...) - 10 seconds
- Finding the actual gen - 5 seconds at a bare minimum
So it only just evens out at 40 seconds each side, and this is assuming extremely unrealistic circumstances for the nurse. Gens will be tag teamed and will be done long before you can get to them. The only reason people use pop is to soft counter the solo genning which can end a game in 4 minutes.
As for NOED, high tier killers would rather have 4 perks the entire game, other than 3 perks and another that could work. In fact the things that make these killers strong is their 4 perk synergy, such as spirit - Stridor, BBQ, Pop, Sloppy. Trade out even one of them perks and shes weak in a category. BBQ? No tracking. Pop? Bad pressure. Stridor? Weaker in chases. Sloppy? Nothing to keep survivors injured.
In strong builds like these it's not worth running NOED, as these 4 perk synergies are arguably better than NOED. They're also a lot more fun to play with.
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I mean the thread got bumbed, but its still a fairly relevant and valid topic.
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@luvcraft said:
had a few times now where I've died to pig trap because I happened to do the wrong three unlock boxes and ran out of time. I'd like it a lot better if it just required you to do 2 boxes (maybe with an add-on that raises that to 3) instead of 1 random box, because I have a super-human ability to always roll the worst possible outcome on random tables. :)
I know the answer to this is gonna be "the other survivors shouldn't work on gens while you're trapped", but many survivors don't realize that gens accelerate the traps, and even if they DO know it becomes a way to grief other survivors and I think we'd all agree that giving players ways to grief each other is something to avoid.
I have to agree with you, but I wouldn't make it after 2 forced boxes, I would have the first box always fail and increase the timer by 30 seconds.
What people don't realise is that pigs traps are not supposed to kill, but to stall, the fact that she can have a lucky death with tampered timer + master plan (add 1 macabre I think) with no survivor input is just so god damn stupid. If you hate spirit because shes a "50/50" guess, then you cannot say having life or death on a dice roll is fine.
If they plan on doing this they should reduce her terror radius to 26 - 28m and make each box a respective probability depending on how many boxes are left.
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@Sir_Child1234 said:
does anyone have some Pig builds?
The best pig build in my opinion is:
BBQ, Enduring, Monitor, Whispers.
However, my personal favourite build is:
Monitor, Enduring, BBQ or Brutal, Pop.
I really hate having the constant groaning of whispers in my ear so I don't run it. :L
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@KingFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1223152#Comment_1223152
You mean like how NoED rewards low skill killers?
Except NOED actually has a counter.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/145338/once-again-ds-it-not-an-anti-tunnel-perk
I think you proved a point here that doesn’t have anything to do with DS. The fact that killers can down people as fast as you’ve mentioned should be enough to realize there’s an issue with this game. They give killers way too potential to end games way too fast and when a survivor is trying to defend themselves the complaints start rolling in. You do realize it’s a perk meant to benefit that ONE survivor right? Why would it come with a downside of deactivating once someone else gets themselves hooked? That’s not his or her fault. Killers get hooks too ez they need to nerf these guys. Game after game it’s nothing but a DC penalty-locked in Mori and slug fest. That’s not fun.
This is the result of survivors messing up, not the killer being good though. DS is a problem because it rewards low skill plays.
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@Cookiescrumble said:
So I am going to get a lot of salt here from a lot of killer mains I feel like but here goes...
Am I the only one who finds that mori's just make games short and unfun?
I feel like Mori's need to be changed to second hook phase. The reason I say this is a majority of killer's who, after hooking someone, instantly tunnel for that mori kill. Adding another hook phase will add more chase and it also may make the games last longer depending on their skill. It makes it a challenge like it should be. So far mori's just aren't fun and ruin game experience for well--survivors and sometimes killers. I find as killer that Mori's are just an ######### thing to use and they make MY playtime short and unfun. Please change mori's or at least consider it? It's not fun, it's short for everyone at times. I understand dailies and getting kills by a killer's hand but that person should work for their kill not just hook someone once then get the kill. That's so aids.
Another cool thought that someone had was Mori people after all four survivors have been hooked, this one I am iffy on because sometimes that's not possible! Skill is a thing a lot of survivors have and I understand it's hard.
Please make it to where you have to work for the Mori.
I am by means not on any side. I have played enough of this game to enjoy both sides. Thank you. I am open to discussions, feel free to comment your thoughts.
Nerf moris when killers actually have a fair chance against SWF. NOT when we nerf keys.
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@BeHasU said:
I mean, look at this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/589/FODJDNW81U1Z.png
look how flat she is lol
at least she has a nice face :3
Shape is better than size. :)
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@PapiQuentin_ said:
I can't stress enough how easy it is to ruin a survivor's game by remembering their name and then playing extremely toxic the next time you play against them. The survivor can't even check who they're playing against so why is it fair the killer can see them?
Very rarely (and I mean very rarely) have I had a killer target me in particular, or my friend. Every time I have been targeted its been by an incredibly toxic killer, or someone I have had debates with in the past.
I'm not calling anything here because i'm almost certain I have versed you in the past and you weren't toxic but it's likely the killer got a bit mad at you for what you were doing. This could be because you're good (because some killers get mad at that fsr), or toxic.
I still think we should keep the gamertags, as it helps killers avoid incredibly toxic people, or people they don't want to verse in general.
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@mrpieseller said:
In my opinion, dead by daylight itself as a game is MUCH more competitive that Friday the 13th. Now that's a casual game. Dead by daylight is naturally more competitive, which is why I like it more
I knew id get split opinions on this.
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@ad19970 said:
I mean, the game is kinda casual, whether one likes it or not. The fact that RNG of maps or addons can impact the outcome of a match as they do in this game shows to me that this game shouldn't be seen as a competitive game, though it does have it's competitive traits. So I guess you could say it's kinda in between, but I would never see DBD as an actual competitive game, and I don't think it was ever meant to be one.
Despite that though, the devs can still do as good of an job as possible to make this game as balanced as possible, despite it being a casual game. Devs won't favor any side because the game is casual.
People having very different opinions on the game's balance is normal I feel, no matter if a game is casual or competitive.
Devs won't favor any side because the game is casual.
But there's the issue, do too many things that help casual and people with competitive opinions get screwed over.
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@OffensiveHumor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1214532#Comment_1214532
I'm not gonna acknowledge that because you have a ghostface PFP.
Well he isn't wrong. Heal or git gud and power through it.
Also imagine judging someone by their PFP LMAO.
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@survivalofdbd said:
Honestly though whycan the paluge down you witht the red vomit it should apply deep wounds and if leatherfaces chainsaw hits another survivor in the same tantrum that should also apply deep wounds
What is it with all these new account holy hell.
Anyway, Bubba is very weak and Plauge only gets 1 pool, she can be stunned out of it as well. Both these killers do not need nerfs.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I said it in another thread but these things get buried so quickly that I'm just gonna repeat it...
The issue is there are two kinds of SWF groups
- The group of friends who want to play together
- The SWAT Team (SWF Team 6 is a fun name for it too)
Group 1 is great to play with. They're fun; they get to have a good time with their friends while I as the killer get to go through my normal Killer Duties and stab people
Group 2 is the problem. While this may be anecdotal evidence, I have found that the SWAT Team is usually not only damn impossible to beat since they are in constant communication with each other but they're always the biggest toxic ######### to play again. If there is a cheap tactic, they'll use it and if they get any chance at all to mock the killer, they will 1000% take it.
The biggest issue that Group 2 causes though is that these are the groups killers remember and these are the groups that make killers quit the game because they're not only frustrating to play from a game-play standpoint, they always seem to make sure to rub it in your face and make the experience as awful as humanly possible.
The problem is that I don't know how you could solve Group 2 without directly hurting Group 1. If Group 1 starts getting hammered and frustrated by nerfs, they're gonna quit and now you just lost four players from your player pool. If you just ignore Group 2 though, Killers are eventually just going to say "F*#$ this S$1* I'm out" and now no one has anyone to play against as your Killer pool Yeets out.
I do not envy the position that the DBD team is in here
I see your point, but even group 1 can be frustrating sometimes. Even with the simple communication of "yea it's a Hag at shack" all survivors now know where the killer is, who it is and what they need to look out for. They can just all now work on gens because there is really nothing else to do. People are not going to not work on gens just for the sake of the match and the killers fun, unless of course you have one of them head on SWFs, etc. These SWFs are rare however, much more rare than your casual 4 man just playing and a lot more rare than your average death squad.
My point is that punishing SWF would balance the good 99% of them. It would only punish the absolute meme SWFs who probably don't care about winning anyway.
Hell don't even add a punishment for SWF, add a bonus reward for the killer for each person in a SWF. So a 4 man or 2 2 mans would give the killer a 150% bonus, a 3 man 100% bonus and a 2 man 50% bonus to BP. It would also help adding a SWF indicator to help after the match.
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@Superstar_Saga95 said:
I’ve been put up against a lot of clowns lately, and I’ve noticed they really like to throw their bottles everywhere, on vaults, pallets, and hooked team members, and on myself when their chasing me. Any tips on how to deal with Clowns or is this something you just have to deal with.
Abusing windows is a good play against clown, with this update most of them will not god tier loops (thankfully) but will still be strong. Lithe is a good shout to help get distance when you vault these windows so consider that.
Structures that have high walls that the clown can't strategically throw bottles around are great to hang around, so if there is lets say coal tower gen, it's best to do that last when the pallets are most likely gone as the clown can't contest that gen easily. Them building usually have them windows in them as I said earlier so that's a bonus.
Running in a straight line helps you extend the chase by ages even if the clown does slow you down. It also helps not creating deadzones in one area because you will be throwing all the pallets very fast.
Cleansing totems - albeit can be a waste of time - is good as clown is considered a low tier killer, so people will usually run perks like NOED. Not only that clown is good at creating deadzones, with NOED, clown becomes deadly at endgame.
Other than that you really wanna genrush the hell out of him and abuse the lack of pressure he has. Clown isn't very fun to play against and many people would like to just get out the game, so doing a gen if someone is being hard camped/tunneled is the best choice.
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Will semi - god loops (windows/pallets that are strong with a bit of distance) be looked into alongside these map adjustments?
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@Auron471 said:
By default, survivors will ALWAYS spawn in either groups of 3 or 4. This way, if they all hop in the nearest generator, they are all hit with the now increased diminishing returns. But, if they want to avoid the penalty, they will have to run away from each other, both wasting time, and increasing the chance of the killer finding them.
Shroud of separation: Is now a survivor offering, and forces all survivor to spawn in groups of 1 or 2.
Shroud of union: Is now a killer offering
This would be a great change, as it helps lower ranks do the first gen faster as the killer who is bad likely won't know the spawns, but it also helps higher ranks as it forces the survivors to split up at the start, wasting time.
Id be all in for this change.
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@lunaticlifter said:
Demogorgon is rarely used, because he has some skillcap and people don't want to go through the bullying phase while learning new killers... personally i think i learnt everything i needed to with demo, every mindgame, cars tech, shred distances, timing.. so after playing him for a long time, i got that rat liver makes demo viable against good survivors... he's not bad without it, don't get me wrong, but he's much weaker and suffers some loops.... since it's a brown add ons and it's so good, at this point make it basekit.. It makes Demo efficient at every kind of loops, short, medium, long and so viable against good loopers, without being oppressive or too strong..
I'm not a Demo main, but I play him sometimes. I also want rat tail built into him so portals can be set up quicker at the start. It wouldn't even be a big buff, just a nice QOL change
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I hate Myers btw.
It seems as though everyone has vastly different opinions on who is fun and who isn't.
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My build is:
Enduring, so I don't have to respect pallets and so I can very quickly vault the pallet after getting stunned, hitting the survivor. Also it's just nice.
Pop goes the weasel, so I can regress gens if people are solo genning (which is a popular strategy against Legion).
Thanatophobia, so I can pressure gens even more so if they decide to not heal. This perk is a must on basically any build.
Brutal strength, so I can kick gens with pop quickly in Frenzy, and so I have a higher chance of forcing them into a deadzone after breaking a pallet. This perk is also just so nice to run.
You can trade out Brutal strength for Spirit fury, but I run BS as I like the kick animation and having the ability to kick gens in Frenzy with pop. Brutal is the "free" perk here, so if you want to try another perk, almost always ditch brutal. The order you should ditch perks is: Brutal (weakest), Pop Enduring, Thana (strongest).
Also, unless you're inexperienced with Legion, never run tracking perks. Like ever. BBQ is cool for the bloodpoints and it can help on massive maps like mothers dwelling, but for some reason people very commonly spawn together on large maps, already giving you enough tracking.
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@BenZ0 said:
"I hate these new killers that have abilities to help them in a chase but they have no pressure, chases"
New Freddy has so much more pressure out of chase with the clocks and teleport. And what about the other new Killers with map pressure abilitys? Oni, Demogorgon and new Doctor? They all have high mobility or other abilitys that stall the game? You seem to not know much about Killers and pressure, I recomend to you to keep playing or watch guides.
New Freddy, yea ok, but Oni doesn't for the start of the game, Demo has very little unless you are running rat tail and Doctor has barely any.
I think you missed the point i was trying to make that newer killers are too focused around the chase and not pressure. The last actual good pressure killer we got was pig who I think has the perfect balance between pressure and chase.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206078#Comment_1206078
Again, what do you do from there after you waste your time mindgaming for the first hit? Old Freddy had absolutely zero tools to assist him in a chase, meaning he is entirely at the mercy of both the skill level of the opposing team and the layout of the map.
Then you had a choice:
- Bail the chase, and sleep and hit someone else
- Keep chasing if you know they're about to go down because of a deadzone
- Go back to someone you hit earlier and hit them down.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206040#Comment_1206040
All that stallin' don't mean much if he has nothing to aid him in downing people within that time. Sure, he can get the first hit pretty easily if you mindgame correctly, but then what? At that point, he's a Pig with no ambush.
Good point, but he had a few things to help him. In the dream transition you could mindgame the survivors at pallets, getting a hit as long as you did it correctly. When visible, go around a side of the pallet, when invisible, double back and get the hit. This could be done in many ways such as pretending as though you're leaving an area, just to appear right back.
The reason this wasn't used much is that there was no indication of when you were invisible. Only the good Freddys memorised the timing for this and was a reason his common block add on that reduced the transition by 0.5 seconds was so good.
Also if he got pallets down he could herd and force people going into deadzones if the game was lasting a while (which it should).
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@Reborn2020 said:
Marth was never known for being smart. It wasnt buffed its just a bug when you lose a chase.
What. You literally cannot get the chase its not a bug.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Okay I'm a freddy main, current freddy and old freddy (started playing just after the first nerf).
He was #########. There's no other way around that, he was absolute #########. He didn't have pressure, he had a sleep world where you dial a skillchecks and all of his pressure vanishes. Other survivor? Pressure gone. His power was a hindrance not a help, and he was the only killer I felt okay seeing noed on.
His power was countered by rng, which is not something you want ever. He had nothing to assist in chases and it was pallet drop into pallet drop into pallet drop into ######### that's 5 gens done. There's a difference between a power helping in chase and having no power, and freddy had worse. He had a hindrende not a help, you had to wait 7 seconds after you found someone to hit them, by which point they find a loop and yay.
He was fun, when I played him god was he fun, and definitely underrated. But just because sometime is underrated doesn't mean it's good, just not as bad as people think.
He also was a noob stomper, strong against new players but find someone who can hold w and you're incredibly weak.
I never want to see old freddy again.
He had pressure, let me repeat myself from the other guy:
Failed skill checks have a 10% regression penalty + 3 second pause which adds up to 11 seconds. Assume it takes 4 seconds to get the skillcheck (which is quite fast). Then, in 15 seconds, you have only made 2 seconds of progress. Now assume you put a survivor to sleep twice who is soloing a gen and you find someone else. That gen now lasts over 100 seconds to complete. All Freddy had to do was press M2 twice and find another survivor (which was easy for him).
That is pressure, stalling the game.
Also if you used the transition to your advantage, getting free hits was easy, so he did have something in a chase. I linked a video somewhere in the thread.
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@DWolfAlpha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1205934#Comment_1205934
It only makes it regress like 3%. That's more than made up for by the seven seconds that it took for them to go to sleep. I have had a 4 man swf complete a generator in my face without me being able to put any of them to sleep because they just kept blowing the gen. 1 person blows the generator, and everyone wakes up.
Failed skill checks have a 10% regression penalty + 3 second pause which adds up to 11 seconds. Assume it takes 4 seconds to get the skillcheck (which is quite fast). Then, in 15 seconds, you have only made 2 seconds of progress. Now assume you put a survivor to sleep twice who is soloing a gen and you find someone else. That gen now lasts over 100 seconds to complete. All Freddy had to do was press M2 twice and find another survivor (which was easy for him).
Also you got unlucky with that 4 man.
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@DWolfAlpha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179357#Comment_1179357
No. Old Freddy had no pressure. Waste 20 seconds? It took 7 to bring them to the dream world, and if they were already on a gen, they would just miss their next skill check and wake up before going to sleep. Not only could survivors deny you your power, but they could deny you ever even hitting them. By failing.
Them missing a skill check is regressing a gen, making them waste time, which is pressure. I wouldn't class it as "denying" a power if you're making them waste that much time.
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@Chekita said:
I know all this discussion its not something to change anything at all. But even in a discussion like this you should refer to what standards you are talking about.
Saying you or a skilled player was good with Freddy and he didnt had to be reworked because of this its not a very good argument. First what actually you consider good, and what is your standard? For most people, including the devs, saying a killer is good means he is either easy to learn and use, or have very high potential due to his power (like Huntress and Nurse IF mastered, meaning they have low kill rates despite having high potential).
I can agree the very first version of Freddy had some potential, but its not nearly as good as this new version of Freddy from both standards. One thing I can also agree is that the first version of Freddy was more original and more fun to play with, but that doesnt make him a "better" killer. When he was changed he already became very weak and easy to counter. New Freddy is not as nearly as fun as the first version, but he has more map control and more chase potential which is two of the trademarks that make the best killers in the game unnanimously. If that isnt enough to convince now he has very high pick rate and kill rates that just proves this point.
I think its fun to argue how he was more original or more interesting to play, but clearly in terms of performance there is no denying he is better in the general sense devs and players think.
In summary, I think you are wasting your time trying to prove he was better in these standards, because everyone can see the charts and say otherwise (specially regarding the reworked Freddy 2nd version). You should probably focus on his originality or his gameplay, or fun, instead of saying he was better because you were better with him. No one will change the game because a handfull of people were better with him in said version. Think about changing your angle, otherwise its really pointless to discuss something so easy to dismiss.
I think you kinda missed the point I was trying to make.
Saying you or a skilled player was good with Freddy and he didnt had to be reworked because of this its not a very good argument.
This is true, however, i'm not saying we should bring Freddy (or a substitute) back because I was good with him, we should get him back because of the other reasons I listed.
First what actually you consider good, and what is your standard?
A good killer in my eyes is someone who doesn't break the game (like old Legion) and who can beat good teams reliably meaning they have high potential, old Freddy had good potential, but barely anybody realised it.
When he was changed he already became very weak and easy to counter.
This is what I think you missed, i'm debating that old Freddy was good and should be brought back in some form. Even if they kept new Freddy in the game, a spin off of old Freddy would be great as he was both fun (which is kinda subjective) and viable. IMO new Freddy is just barely better than Old, but i'm pretty certain the majority of people in this community hate versing him.
This is what i'm kind of getting at: He was slightly weaker than current Freddy, but more fun for most. I personally would class that as a better killer.
In summary, I think you are wasting your time trying to prove he was better in these standards, because everyone can see the charts and say otherwise (specially regarding the reworked Freddy 2nd version).
You kinda contradicted yourself here, as you said earlier, huntress and nurse have low kill rates but high potential. Now i'm not saying old Freddy is as good as nurse, but its the same situation. Few knew how to play him properly, which is why his kill rate was low. As for fun factor, I see very few people saying new is fun. I find him fun to play as and against, but the majority of the community I would say doesn't. With your last point, whats the point in not changing something only a handful of people in the community find not a problem? It goes both ways.
To clear a few things up I don't want new Freddy changed, but if it meant getting old back id be all for it. Id rather prefer getting a different killer with a similar ability.
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@matchmakingworksfine said:
Hawkins is the most survivor sided map in the game imo.
0 hooks on the second floor
3 pallets in every single hallway and 2 pallets in every room
And with the huge debris everywhere it is impossible to play efficiently as oni and Billy.
If you dont think this map is survivor sided your not past rank 15.
IMO unpopular opinion here, but the map actually is survivor sided when the survivors know what they're doing. If there's a pallet on a corner you drop it early and loop around the wall next to it that can lead into a room. It's quite hard to explain but I have been looped and looped killers this way for quite a long time.
It also doesn't help for the killers reduced mobility due to all the rooms they have to move around and the fact that there isn't many long LOS so it's harder to find survivors.
Id say the only thing killers have going for on this map is the difficulty for the survivors to find gens, the 2nd floor deadzone and how looping on that map requires distance and skill.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202063#Comment_1202063
Can only get unlucky so many times in a row.
I know the devs are not the kind of people to lie about something that can effect gameplay as much as this, I haven't played PTB but from looking at other people the pallet density looks just fine. Maybe test a few maps?
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202038#Comment_1202038
I have eyeballs and I went on the PTB.
You're just getting unlucky then if you see less pallets.
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@Jaster said:
Hi everyone!
Hope you're all staying safe and healthy during this time.
Other people I play this game with, as well as myself, feel like the Mori is too overpowered. It severely cuts the game time and, as aesthetically pleasing as it is, there is no equivalent for the survivor to get around it. Also, there is no repercussion for the killer using it. "Getting good," just isn't enough, as the game seems to already lean in favor of the killer. I feel it is an unfair game mechanic and causes the game to lean even more heavily in the killer's favor, especially when the killer can Mori every single Survivor in the match (provided conditions are met with perks, add-ons, and Offerings that are attained). I specifically recall a time where The Shape walked up to me and killed my Survivor on the spot. Perfectly healthy, not even in the Dying State.
One or even two survivors would be acceptable but all four I feel is too much. I think either a heavy limit on it or removal all together would be fair options- or even a Perk/Add-On/Offering for Survivors that allows them to avoid it.
Thoughts?
Should only be changed after SWF is balanced out. I wouldn't mind them becoming more rare though.
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@mouse0270 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198286#Comment_1198286
Lets consider both situations:
1) If the killer was doing their job, there should really only be 2-3 people remaining, if all four have made it to this point, you screwed up as killer. The survivors did their job, you didn't. This should be harder for you. However, lets say you secure at least 1 kill before End Game. That means you have a high chance of getting two more kills or at least 1 more kill to tie the game. You can either a slug or hook and proxy camp for the save. Don't commit to a chase you can't win, at this point in the game you should realize what chases you can win.
2) In a 1v1, the killer already has the upper hand in a match. It shouldn't matter how the match got to this point. As killer you don't deserve a kill, you earn a kill. You're asking for a free kill, sorry I want more of a challenge.
Also the fact that you think slowdown perks are second chances and you want pop nerfed just tells me that you either ain't a killer main, or you're a rank 15.
I love this, Oh, you don't play like me, so you must be bad... I'll refer you to my previous statement, it pretty much applies to you too I guess
I am sorry my 1.7k hours (which I will safely assume 1.3k of those are as killer) doesn't count me as a killer main for you. I am sorry I am not a sweaty try hard, need a 4k to feel good about myself type of player. I am sorry I get to red ranks without running unfun perks such as Pop, in fact, I never even made ruin teachable until after they changed it. The closest thing to a slow down perk I run is Corrupt. Basically I am sorry I don't live up to your standard of a killer main, I get the strong feeling you wont live up to mine either.
BTW #RedRankGamer I guess the best advice I can offer you is, git gud.
I really don't get your first point, the doors can spawn close, but never that close that they survivors don't have enough time to stall the killer or take hits. If you literally cannot stall the killer for 20 seconds (give or take) even with 3 people, then as I said, your squad is trash. If the killer gets more than one down in this time, it's completely the survivors fault. Try using hope and adrenaline if you are having such an issue with this. There's really not much else to say.
To sum it up simply, stall the killer for 20 seconds, only one person max should die here.
As for your second point, stop making this around the killer "earning" or "deserving" the final kill or the 4k. It's about the survivor. I'll repeat myself:
About endgame collapse, the survivor has had so many chances to escape it absolutely should be difficult to escape at that point. Think, they could've done the gens, used their overwhelming amount of seconds chance perks, use a key or even just escape through hatch normally.
The survivors have obviously played bad if they have all died, why should the survivor now get an advantage or an even chance over the killer if they have had plenty of chances? The killer doesn't get an advantage when all the gens are done - unless the survivors play rarted of course, so why should the survivor when everyone else has died? I personally like the small chance a survivor gets to escape, but it would just be dumb if he had an equal chance after the amount of chances they've had.
To sum this up, it isn't about the killer "earning" a kill, its about the survivor who has played bad having a small chance to escape.
Also the fact that you just said that pop is "unfun" and that you have to say your hours tells me you ain't experienced with high tier play. :L
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@mouse0270 said:
@Leachy_Jr you do realize your first argument is, The survivors did their job and got to the end game, but then still have no hope of escaping because the game decided to put the only two ways to exit the game in a position the killer can see both? That is balance, that is clearly giving one side a HUGE upper hand.
Throwing the argument of second chance perks or using a key (which they may not have) is being biased. Killers often run multiple slow down perks, which in my eyes are the equivalent of survivors second chance perks. They also have the of using mori's. Which brings us to End Game Collapse, which can easily favor a killer more so than a survivor. So putting exit gates in a position where a killer doesn't even have to patrol is not balance, it clearly is unbalanced and favors one side more.
Saying a survivor shouldn't be able to run a loop for 2 minutes because its "god" loop and then turning around and saying exit gates are perfectly balanced is being biased.
Lets consider both situations:
1) The survivors have all survived until endgame, the killer can only really secure 1 down in the time it takes for someone to open the gates, and if the killer just patrols them, you can take hits and get them open easily. If your team cant get the gates open in the time it takes for the killer to get a down or take multiple hits then i'm sorry but your team is just bad.
2) The killer closed the hatch and 1 survivor is left, the killer should have an absolute upper hand here as they survivor has had plenty of chances to escape as I said earlier. Keys, second chance perks, etc...
Also the fact that you think slowdown perks are second chances and you want pop nerfed just tells me that you either ain't a killer main, or you're a rank 15.
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So a few things:
About endgame collapse, the survivor has had so many chances to escape it absolutely should be difficult to escape at that point. Think, they could've done the gens, used their overwhelming amount of seconds chance perks, use a key or even just escape through hatch normally. In this situation I think it is completely fair for the killer to have an advantage.
As for pop, it really isn't a problem, if anything it's healthy for the game as it rewards the killer for doing his job. You have to consider even with these map changes gens will still fly as they haven't done anything about solo gens, so killers still need a good perk. The only real annoying thing about pop IMO is that bad teammates just give free pops. You should try having longer, safer chases if you know the killer has pop.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1195074#Comment_1195074
People really underestimate how slow she is now. Her only attribute is 1v1. So many of my games come down to the wire becaude of how ridiculously slow she is traveling the map and finding survivors.
I play every killer at rank 1. There are absolutely arguments to be made for Billy over Nurse, Spirit over Nurse, or even Hag over Nurse in many situations/games.
Ikr, this is how i think of it:
Small size maps: Spirit is best,
Medium size maps: Nurse is best,
Large size maps: Billy, possibly Nurse is best.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
I personally think he's just a bit op but he dosent need major nerfs. Whats your opinion?
Nothing is actually OP about him, it's just Forever Freddy is boring as hell due to how reliant you are on your teammates having long chases. Other than that he's fine.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194818#Comment_1194818
Pebble? 😂 you mean diversion? 😂😂 is this fr?
Yes 😂😂😂 He means diversion😂😂😂As sometimes people call it pebble because you throw a pebble😂.
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@OmegaXII said:
Devs said they reworked ruin because it hurts new player so much, but has little effect for strong survivors.
Come to think of it, nurse cooldown hurts new killers so much, but has little effect on veteran killers.
So... why don't we just remove the cooldown since it only hurts new players? Also the cooldown is very annoying, and i think majority of the people here agree with this.
People need to stop thinking this cooldown has had no effect on god tier nurses, it absolutely has. Many nurse players including legacy nurses have quit her or only use double cooldown on her due to how frustrating she is to use. More importantly, its a nerf to one of the strongest (if not the strongest) killer in the game, which we need for guidelines on how to balance killers. Just like we might need weaker killers so we know what is good and what is bad.
As for your point, it really does effect veterans, and makes it horrible for new people. It's really not like old ruin. Wish it was though so the devs could remove the cooldown.