Langweilig
Langweilig
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I thought this was a new discussion. I got bamboozled.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915316#Comment_3915316
I do t think people would ever run a perk that benefits killer. Soloq is bad, but not that bad. People will rather run a med kit or a syringe. That's the reality.
Some people already run it without the self healing part, so giving it that back and keeping the current parts can only increase its play rate. It wouldn‘t be like treacherous crows where you become broken and get a mediocre effect. A health state is very valuable in a lot of situations and the time would probably be worth it (even when it benefits the killer). For example when you are almost healed, you can finish it or when you are on death hook, you rather waste a few seconds to be on the safer side.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915225#Comment_3915225
Your mark is removed as soon as you mend. The timer is not an extension of the mark, it is only an extension of the Enraged Mode once no one is marked anymore.
When you finish mending you can also immediately see the "Mark Removed" score event on survivor.
You are probably right, but the timer should still apply to make this addon better.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915215#Comment_3915215
You didnt really go into my point at all. The problem was the self sustainablility it provided combined with the lack of value a killer got for getting a hit. As most decent killer players know, leaving a chase for someone else is often a very viable strategy. This perk, until the self heal got removed, completely negated that. I dont have to mention how hard of a blow this was for hit and run killers, do I? Their entire gameplay got basicly removed. Just ask a Twins- or Hag-main that played during that time and they will tell you fun stories.
Back in the day, killers where able to break boons. They are able to do it now. BHVR´s solution to breaking boons was shattered hope. Was that perk every really used to combat boons? No. It was a drop of water on hot stone. The problem with that perk was:
- You dont know if your opponent brings it, rendering it completely useless if no boon is in play. (This wasnt the problem back then mind you)
- A survivor with CoH would just boon the next totem. Repeat. (This was the real problem imo, because until the killer wasted so much time getting rid of every new CoH, the survivors had made so much progress through the efficiency provided by that perk, that the killers basicly lost the match already just through breaking boons.)
How did people therefore deal with it? Stack more slowdown, tunnel, camp, play killers that are so strong in chase that they never have to leave a chase or play killers that disincentivize healing (e.g. Plague and Legion (mind you, coh often made it efficient to heal even against a Legion back then.))
In regard to your suggestion. Why would a survivor ever pick something that would slow down the game for them? Old CoH sped up efficiency. Thats why it was so good. Its the same reason syringes will never get out of style if they dont get reworked entirely. If self healing comes back at more than 30 sec, then why would anybody use this perk? You could literally just run botany self care. Or even better: a med kit. > med kit with syringe (doesnt even waste a perk slot).
Shattered hope is not a basekti perk for a good reason. It would make almost all other boons so awful that wed have another treacherous crows situation. Thats why it was never made basekit but a perk imo. The other boons where not strong enough to warrant a basekit mechanic by any means. ONLY CoH warranted this kind of ability, which speaks volumes about its strenght.
"My version would very much benefit killers, because it would work as a natural healthy slowdown. Survivors would search for totems, bless totems, keep running over the whole map to heal and take ages to heal. This is a lot of time. Use an anti healing build and survivors will stand there for minutes."
- you summed it up here by yourself. Why would a survivor use a perk that would benefit the killer???
Our argument in the beginning was about the speed and self healing as ability, which I think we come to an agreement. My version would not be too strong.
Why would survivors run it? Because soloq is soloq and they often don‘t want to heal you or refuse to. Additionally you could start healing while waiting for another survivor to heal the rest. Current circle of healing is for that exact reason only useful in swf.
Shattered hope basekit: I would only do that if I buff all boon perks accordingly.
I didn‘t need to go into your point, because it wasn‘t necessary for my point, which was purely about the speed. I don‘t deny that old COH was too strong and so on, however, there were ways to keep the self healing.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915266#Comment_3915266
I think that does sound like a better idea. What would happen is after 1 great skill check they'd just only do goods for the rest the match so it would never proc again, but I suppose that's at least a little extra less gen progress if they only can do goods for the rest the match. A small, but nice buff.
Imagine the faces of hyperfocus players after playing against that😂😅
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915226#Comment_3915226
For Monitor would this be all replacing the old base effect or in addition to as just an improvement? Also curious on your numbers for how much on each token. I like the addition of affecting lullaby, makes it usable on more killers, including Sadako. Although I don't know if it would be good enough to compete for my perk slots on her lol
For Distressing that could work. Would make it a bit more confusing. I like this.
Overwhelming presence is in a weird spot for its purpose. Like if you wanted to counter items, you'd just run franklins over this. Like even with that change I can't see a scenario that i'd rather run it over something else. Maybe unlike Franklins that's used to counter items, it could instead be a way to benefit off their items. Think maybe something similar to Face the Darkness, that isn't a hex, but it only periodically triggers to show survivors that have items in their hands. So less risky than Face the Darkness but more situational. If we have it just show their auras when they use items that's so little to not even matter for a perk slot and if the perk in any way tells them you're running it, then it's also dead since they'll just put the item down. Something like this or maybe you have another idea as well.
Monitor: The new effect would work on top of its old effect, so it is 8 meters + 4. (1 meter for each time you hook a survivor for the first time).
Overwhelming presence: I got this idea from people complaining about toolboxes. Making the terror radius map wide for the first 30 seconds would make toolboxes during that time really bad. The aura reading has more a psychological purpose like I see it does something, but it would also show you the aura of people healing with medkits, using their flashlight at pallets…. or when they use their aura key. I wouldn‘t let the survivors know I have it with little icon. If they notice their item depletes faster, they know - if not then not.
Think maybe something similar to Face the Darkness, that isn't a hex, but it only periodically triggers to show survivors that have items in their hands
I like this idea, that‘s very cool. I just feel like this should be a new perk.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915242#Comment_3915242
While I agree that it is part of its identity, skill checks determining balance isn't good for the game. As I mentioned before, it only punishes bad players and is useless against good ones. The ideal design we want is weaker against bad players and better against good ones. As long as it's based on skill checks it will rarely ever be used. The retrigger being added isn't really relevant to make it any better as it's flawed in design. I do like your extension of block effects giving it more synergy though.
What do you think of giving it a secondary effect of blocking a generator for 0,5 seconds (which gets extended by 3-5s) when survivors hit a great skill check? It’s a goofy idea I had.
Even tho the normal skill check part is more effective against bad players, I wouldn‘t remove that part. Otherwise there is no real difference to pinheads gen block perk. In the end they only get combined together and both get nerfed. The skill check requirement keeps it kinda safe from getting nerfed or being too strong.
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OG Sadako sounds good with some adjustments of course. The other things should come back as event game mode. I want to try dash DH.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915221#Comment_3915221
All these killer can instadown, meaning that even if survivors use Duty of Care, they will die for it.
No even mentioning Tombstone Myers (which I will run more after Orela goes to live) and maybe Iri Flesh Bubba, although I'm not certain about how effective it will be.
Lol I haven‘t thought about that. Do expect the devs to nerf the perk, because I do? I don‘t think they will release it in its current form.
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@Blueberry said:
Another one rarely mentioned is Merciless Storm. Having this based around skill checks makes it bad against good players and really good against bad player. This is the opposite of the kind of design we want. I propose removing the skill checks entirely and just make it block a gen for 25 seconds upon reaching 90% progress.
The skill check requirement is the identity of the perk. Removing that would be really sad to see and is not necessary in my opinion.
I would suggest that it can reactivate after a cooldown of 50 seconds again on the same generator. (This should also apply for tinkerer). For perk synergy I would suggest that it gets an effect that extends all generator blocks by 3-5 seconds. That way it buffs itself by 3-5 seconds and other perks.
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@Blueberry said:
I find a lot of the issue with the TR perks is just how little they affect the survivors. Something as simple as making the affect linger on them for 15 seconds after leaving your TR would probably go a long way.
This effect could be cool for the global terror radius effects and distressing. For monitor it would be a downside tho.
My idea was for distressing was that it plays the wrong terror radius layer after a certain time, so survivors think you are close while you are not. For overwhelming presence the idea was to counter toolboxes and let you see people that are affected by it. Monitor is just buffed and doesn‘t need more. The other idea was to no longer exclude lullaby killers (Sadako) and give synergies with perks that only work in your terror radius and make them mapwide with distressing.
What do you think my fellow Sadako enjoyer about increasing or decreasing her lullaby?
Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it as always.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914866#Comment_3914866
That Oblivious addon only has an effect while they're marked and haven't mended. As soon as they mend it goes away, the countdown timer doesn't matter for that addon at all, it does not work during the countdown.
The timer does matter! That‘s what the addon says (on the wiki).
- Causes them to suffer from the oblivious Status Effect until the mark is removed.
If survivors stay marked, it would make them oblivious for longer and keep them oblivious even after they mended for a short period of time.
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@SoGo said:
Fun part, one or two low tier killers can make it so using this perk means you die.
Myers and partially Ghostface.
Or Bubba.
Can you explain?
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@Jtflorencio said:
Why? Would a Haddonfield rework really be fair? because why nobody talks about others
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4L8AWKKLVFAH/my-image-285-29.png
If each offering had "2 variants"
1- side survival
2- side killer
There would be less crying, or just remove the offerings mapThis is so wrong. Realms represent more than just ONE map you don’t like.
Yes haddonfield rework would be fair. Killers have perks and stuff to deal with maps. For survivors maps are the only thing they have. With a map being trash they can literally do nothing. Behavior just needs to meaningfully buff weaker killers instead of balancing maps around them while the strong killers stomp everyone there.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914321#Comment_3914321
The problem was 100% the self healing. BHVR tried to deny that aspect for over a year and nerfed the healing speed over and over. The perk remained a big problem after every single nerf. After the self healing was finally dealt with, the perk was immediately in a much fairer state.
The problem with the self healing is the incredible increase in self sustainability each single survivor gained just for one bringing this perk. A killer was rarely able to leave a survivor injured because they would gain no value what5soever in slowing down gens. The injured survivor would heal by themselves at decent speed (pretty fast with a med kit on top) and no other survivor had to leave a gen.
This got even worse when you look at bodyblocks, as people could heal themselves up by themselves, run in, take a hit and repeat that process. That times 3 creates a big problem.
The problem as it got nerfed was still the speed and not the ability and that killers weren’t able to break totems. Whenever behavior nerfed the numbers they weren‘t drastic enough and they didn‘t separate self healing from altruistic healing.
First version: self care at 200% - 8 seconds
Second version: self care at 175% - 9,1 seconds
Third version: self care at 150% - 10,6 seconds
Fourth version is what we have now.
My suggestion: self care at 45-35% (35,5-45,7seconds) and altruistic healing at 100%.
When you look at this, the problem was still clearly the speed and not the ability itself. I would even be fine to give killers shattered hope basekit for getting self healing back at 35-45 seconds.
My version would very much benefit killers, because it would work as a natural healthy slowdown. Survivors would search for totems, bless totems, keep running over the whole map to heal and take ages to heal. This is a lot of time. Use an anti healing build and survivors will stand there for minutes.
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@SoGo said:
These sound nice!
Overwhelming Presence needs help, so does Distressing.
Monitor is really useful on more than just Doctor, tho. Deathslinger and Hag benefit from it a lot, to name a few.
I mainly used Doctor as example for distressing. Sorry for writing the intro a bit poorly. You are of course right with hag and I add pig to it. Thanks for the comment, I appreciate your feedback.
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@Eiwarte said:
Everything you said in your post is the Ghoul working as intended.
To explain:
1) Survivors losing their marks instantly when mending if you have other marks is normal, only the last one will create the time as, as long as someone is still in deep wound with a mark, there is no need for a timer as your power is infinite in this state.
2) The Sliding after a Leap only happens if you are still in power. Since the power is depleted right as you send out your last leap, the slide cannot occur. If you cancel your power during a leap, you also will not slide right after. This is done this way to probably make the Grab-attack not make you slide way past the survivor.Maybe it’s normal. I don‘t know.
- „there is no need for a timer“ He has an addon that makes survivors oblivous with the mark. It disappearing obviously affects that addon very much.
- That‘s sad if true. He should definitely slide at his third leap.
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@Akumakaji said:
maybe is me just not getting used to all the new ins and outs, but tonight every game with the Ghoul felt miserable: I was constantly getting into the grab cooldown when my Kagune failed to hold on to something (why is that even a thing?), before I felt like Spiderman, traversing the map in agile leaps and bounds, now i feel like a fat toat on a string, getting pulled along before flopping to the ground, and with the bite you now have to be extremely precise and I have gone for three chases back to back were I got no chance to get enraged.
I guess thats it and we nerfed another killer into oblivion.
was constantly getting into the grab cooldown when my Kagune failed to hold on to something
I agree. They should remove that. It would be a huge quality of live change for him. I would also love to see a option in the settings to make his crosshair permanent. At the moment I struggle to know where it will pop up and get confused. PC players can already do it so why not add something like that to console?!
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914854#Comment_3914854
"Other people do it too" isn't a valid justification, as you're only perpetuating that cycle at other players and being part of the problem. Its also not your place to decide for your 3 teammates when a match is "already lost," thats depriving them of shared agency necessary for the role to function. Basically you're making their choice for them, while assuming your assessment of the match is immaculate (regardless of actual evidence.) How easy you find killer is an irrelevant deflection, the point was that if a killer ever feels like they "already lost" they do not have the option to avoid the DC penalty like you are apparently enjoying.
You have no idea what you are talking about! Having a dead teammate at 3-5 gens left is already a lost cause and that‘s objective not even subjective. I don‘t need to be better than all the others and torment myself if all the other don‘t do it themself. It‘s human nature, you have to get over it. As long as behavior isn‘t addressing any of the problems, that‘s not my fault. You are also assuming that I do it all the time, which I‘m not. I wrote if I do it, which already implies I‘m not doing it often.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914852#Comment_3914852
And what happens to the other 3 survivors who might be completely fine with playing said map? What happens when its a map that the killer finds especially unfavorable? You're affecting 4 other players' games, not just your own.
I‘m only doing it when the match is already lost and to be honest it’s more often done to me than I do it to others. At some point it is exhausting. On the other hand I barely play survivor anymore. As killer I can handle every map and adjust my build accordingly. Survivors don‘t have perks to work against terrible maps.
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If I go next it has something to do with the horrible map I have to play on. Some maps are incredibly unfun and unfair to survivors. Haddonfield/both borgo realms/rancid and others still being their current state are miserable to play on and against a decent or strong killer not winnable aside from hatch.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894268#Comment_3894268
Swamps high grass means that Victor, crawling Xenomorph and Onryo can very easily lose tracks of the Survivor they are chasing, and Xenomorphs turret can be completely hidden in the grass. The weird geometry means that Snug gets stuck constantly. There are multiple gens that can spawn literally at the wall of the map and are therefore so out of the way they are hard to defend. The weird gen spawns also throw of Onryos TV spawns.
We don‘t need more nerfs to plants on maps. Trapper needs them. I agree with you that it can be hard to see, but that‘s what you are choosing with these killers.
Swamps totem and gen spawns are good. These are the only maps that are different, which gives them something unique and makes them interesting.
Sadako‘s TV spawns could easily be fixed. It‘s not a problem of the realm, rather that chests take priority over TVs and they need to add a few better chest spawns for her TVs.
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Why are tierlists always with S, A, B,C,D tiers?
If I would make one my tiers would be the following. Very strong, strong, okay, weak, very weak.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914549#Comment_3914549
I was responding to why moderators are sometimes replying to my suggestions. Many peoples suggestions are drastic and very biased.
I did by no means want to imply that you are one of these people. Excuse me if I made it sound like that.
I don't think a TV should turn on after TP to it. TP has currently no cooldown (which is good) this means you could constantly TP to tvs to keep them on. That's too strong. Condemned has a cooldown that is tied to tvs being turned off. That's fair. As I mentioned before, this is an insta kill mechanic and therefore difficult to balance. Small changes like this would make a big difference imo.
Thanks for clarifying.
You are probably right about the turn on thing. Such things are difficult to suggest because you can‘t really know how it will play out in the game without testing.
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@Haseyana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914492#Comment_3914492
You have very good ideas. I really like that one of be able to tp to turn off tv's, as an iri, (even if obviously they don't inflict condemn, the ones turned off I mean) because it's a disgrace that her iri addon is the meme one because disables your power..
I think only with that her could be pretty good honestly.
I have many ideas too, but I feel like they make her too opressive: Such as passive condemn, destroy the tape with a hit like the second version, but maybe without giving them stacks (or at least one) and of course bring back the "long" animation to take and deliver tapes so survivors can't deliver them that easy.. this way her could be more balanced without the need of a rework
Thanks for the nice words. It means a lot here on the forums.
Passive condemned could work on the current version, but it would have to be a lot less effective than in her first version. It would need a to apply condemned very slowly and only after a long time, otherwise it would just be unfair and survivors would get punished whatever they do.
Destroy tapes without giving them condemned is fine too. It giving condemned in 2.0 was just unhealthy and gave survivors no real counterplay.
@Skitten56 always suggested to remove TV auras when they hold a tape. This would nice, however, I still think survivors shouldn‘t see TV auras (except the one where they need to put their tape).
@radiantHero23 also suggested making delivering tapes take longer like you. Agree with both of you. 1 second is too short. It was 2 seconds before they changed it. 1.5 or 2 seconds would both be fine to me. If they change that they should also apply the same time to turning off TVs, which currently is 0,5 seconds.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914492#Comment_3914492
No. She wasn't a good chaser back then. She never was. She had mobility yes. But mobility = strong chase. If blight could not attack after a rush he would be similar to what sadako was back then. Sadako still has one of the best mobility powers in the game. You just have to fight for it compared to her first iteration, where condemned was so weak that survivors generally ignored tvs alltogether. Now that condemned is strong, survivors can't ignore tvs. Thats logical to me.
The auras I can get by…
TP to a TV that is turned off? Yes with a drawback though. If you TP to a turned off TV, NOTHING spreads condemned. Not the tv you TP'd to and no other turned on TV. Everything else would be too much. If that's the payoff, then, yes. That would be a good change imo. Not too strong but helpful.
IRI tape was so dumb back then because it enabled to constantly spread condemn without much counter. That's why I'm against it ever making a return. It was way too strong.
I always try to be fair for both sides. Dbd is a pvp game. Therefore things need to be seen from both sides when something changes. Sadako is a very difficult killer to balance due to condemned. Small changes can, similar to good piggy, make her too strong or too weak.
I think your idea: you can TP to a TV that is turned off but spread no condemned whatsoever in the process is an ok idea that would need to be tested though. I might be wrong and it could be too strong if made basekit. But as an iri addon? Definitely fine by me and 100% worth to be tested.
Sadly we have not seen massive changes to her addons ever since she came out, soooo.... I dont get my hopes up.
Edit: I personally still want the tape insertion time to be reset to what it was. Being able to interrupt tape inserts was a good thing and a fair thing.
For me she was a good and fun chaser back then. I don‘t need a killer with a huge anti loop power to consider her that way. She made up for that with her mobility for me and if you played her well she was very strong that way with iri tape.
About the tp to turned off TVs. Like you said, I wouldn‘t want her to spread condemned there as well, but I would make the TV you teleported to turn back on afterwards, so it gives a little benefit to condemned. I don‘t think this is too much, however I wouldn‘t need the last Part.
I don‘t agree with you about old old iri tape like we discussed in the past. It was great for mobility and they could have kept it for mobility by making it worthless for condemned. There is no reason not to do that and it was definitely not too strong in her first version. You can argue about it making a way too big difference between playing that addon and not playing it back then, but that could have been solved by making it partially basekik. Strength wise it was fair for survivors at that time.
I don‘t know why you mention you try to be fair to both sides. It is kinda implying that I‘m not doing that and I am trying do the same as you. Sure I‘m suggesting strong stuff, but I‘m not suggesting anything unfair.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914457#Comment_3914457
What I mean is, if mmr works somewhat consistently, I should face very strong teams. I also perceive my teams as really strong due to my experience with teams that I've build over my time playing this game. The people I face are not bad by any means.
Don't take this the wrong way, but where are you while they turn your tvs off? Chasing? Then you give them the tvs for free. Sadako is not a chaser. That's why my playstyle works so well imo. I rarely chase with her. I only commit if I know I get a hit / down / stack / pallet. Then I leave. I fight for my tvs more than my gens and this keeps them on consistently.
I really need to start recording my games again don't I?
I feel for you and want to help you, I just don't know if I can.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914466#Comment_3914466
I win despite them playing good. Everyone makes mistakes. Nobody plays perfect all the time. Not me, not your survivors and DEFINITELY not comp players. Trust me, I know.
I think I know where your issue with her lies. You play her as a stealth killer and chase people. Sadako is not a chase oriented killer. She's a killer with a strategic skill ceiling that suffers from chasing. Your power gives you mobility, slowdown and lethality. You power is the tvs. Not demanifestation or invisibility mindgames. Those just help you by playing your tvs.
If you start to chase people, they will abuse that and you will lose very fast. This is why I very rarely commit to a chase with her. I dont give them power over my tvs. I fight for them.
Sadako's condemned works on almost every map. Some worse, some give you free wins (Gideon meat plant). My hardest map is probably Ormond. Even Erie isn't that hard to play as her. She is not that map dependent imo. If you, sorry this might sound harsh, just chase people, then yes. She struggles extremely hard. You try to force her to be something she's not.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914468#Comment_3914468
Always glad to help. I love playing Sadako and want others to see how strong she can be as well. I don't mind taking the time to explain.
I think Sadako has one of the most hard to grasp skill ceilings in the game. She's easy to pick up and play, as she is indeed a noob stomper. She also seems simple on the surface, which doesn't make it any better. The aspect of a strategic skill ceiling is something only few killers have and it's a skill that dbd doesn't teach or explain at all. It's not easy to learn or master her because there is so little info about what to master in the first place. A lot of trial and error.
Pig is very similar to this. Mandy however has a decent chase power with a mechanical skill ceiling. Something Sadako lacks.
„Sadako is not a chaser“ The thing is she once was very good at chasing. Not like blight but she had one of if not the best mobility abilities. You could play her very well that way.
„I feel for you and want to help you, I just don't know if I can.“ The only thing I really need is no TV auras, being able to teleport to turned off TVs and a change to her lullaby (no longer directional or/and smaller radius).
I don‘t know if you seen my suggestion for iri tape. It basically allows you to teleport to turned off TVs and turns them on after you teleported to them, but doesn‘t spread condemned when doing so. If this addon got changed like that it would be huge or if they change current iri tape that it removes TV auras and survivors can‘t interact with them would be nice as well.
If you want to help and suggest something. A addon that solves those 3 parts is all I need or they fix those things basekit. The other things I always suggest in my feedback aren‘t needed even tho I would like them. For some reason I feel like the devs listen a lot more to you than to me and others. Mandy even responded to you directly about your critic and she normally never responds to anyone about balance things.
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@Haseyana said:
The thing I feel with Sadako is like the team you play against have to make mistakes for you to win.. in chase, or for not picking tapes. You can't win most of the time because you did well, is just because they played bad, that's what I find so frustrating.
I don't exactly know which changes exactly needs her.. because I wish she had a "fun" chase power like Wesker, but that's just my personal opinion.
Just.. I think now doesn't feel well to play with, at least that's what I feel, because I need survs to play mistakes, I depend on map too..
Also: Doesn't have chase power, the mobility is managed by survivors, and your power which is condemn depends on map, and again, they making mistakes..
And yes you can turn them off sometimes and prevent them to shut off your tv's, but if they are coordinated, they are going to pick all the other 3 tapes they are working on.
The thing is.. I want to win because I did it well, not because they did it bad
The thing I feel with Sadako is like the team you play against have to make mistakes for you to win.. in chase, or for not picking tapes. You can't win most of the time because you did well
Same I want to win because I did well and not because my opponents lack knowledge on a killer and I want the mobility from her first version back, which they robbed her by forcing survivors to turn off TVs.
That‘s what I‘m suggesting to make her more fun for both sides again:
@Langweilig said:
What do you think of these changes and the addon pass in the comments?
Let's start with the reasons why I want the following changes.
- Her teleport became too limited and predictable by introducing so many things that help survivors with condemned.
- Spamming the teleport for condemned is still a boring, unfun, abusable and annoying way to be forced to play her and against her. I want more freedom in playing her again in fun ways. In the past you could decide whether you wanted to chase as her or condemn survivor first.
- Her stealth isn't really stealthy.
- Tapes are being hoarded by survivors.
- Turning TV's off is too free and fast.
- Survivors who know how she works make her ability useless, while survivors who don't, lose all the time. Both situations aren’t fun. I try to make her simpler for people who don’t understand her and more consistent across skill levels.
- I want her to be better at chasing survivors (again).
- Her TVs are constantly turned off, which makes them unusable for getting close and chasing survivors. I want to discourage turning them off.
Chase/flicker buffs
- While demanifested, the visible duration gets reduced to 1-1,2 seconds (was 1,5s).
- The lullaby radius, terror radius, threshold of full invisibility in the otherworld is decreased to 18 (was 24) meters.
- Her Lullaby is no longer directional.
- She keeps her pallet stun immunity, loss of collision and undetectable for the lingering flickering duration (,which lasts 4 seconds without the mirror addon). (New)
- She flickers for 4s after crawling out of a TV. (new)
- She keeps flickering while breaking pallets and vaulting windows (currently deactivates after starting those actions).
Teleport/TV/chase buffs
- Please remove the TV auras!!!!!!
- Increase the tape insertion, grabbing and the speed for turning off TVs to 1,5-2 seconds (was 0,5s/1s).
Changes to her condemned mechanic
- Passive condemned: Every 25-35 seconds of holding a tape gives 1 stack condemned. (New)
- Only one (was all) TVs spread condemned.
- Hooking a survivor (with a tape) gives all other survivors 1 stack of condemned. (new, ring drawing basekit)
- On the second hook all (was 3) condemned stacks get locked in.
- Every 60-90s survivors receive a stack of condemned passively. When a survivor is in chase, on hook or carries a tape their timer is paused. (new)
The thing I enjoyed the most about her:
When playing as her you had the best mobility (at the time) in the game and you felt like you were at all places at the same time. (This was sadly no longer possible since her first rework.) Also at the time the visual heart beat wasn‘t yet introduced, which made her stealth a lot better.
On the survivor side I loved how scary she was and therefore bought her. You were never certain where she exactly were and always feared her coming out of nowhere, be out of an TV next to you or just appearing behind a corner. The thing is her lullaby is almost not noticeable and without the visual heartbeat you didn‘t notice she was there until it was to late at a lot of times. This made her very different and exciting to face than a lot of other killers for me.
The major difference why I‘m still advocating for 1.0s design is, it discouraged taking tapes, which left your TVs online almost all of the match. Survivors only took tapes if they had to remove condemned or feared her coming out of an TV next to you. Since 2.0 and also in 3.0 survivors are forced to turn off TVs, which makes her unable to have this map traversal. The only real difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is that survivors who understand her can nullify her power and survivors who don’t understand her will get condemned insanely fast.
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@highpingmeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914450#Comment_3914450
The only other account I have is on club penguin. 1v1 me scrub.
I don‘t care about anything you say. Call me whatever you want. It doesn‘t mean anything to me.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914454#Comment_3914454
Glad to help.
Nice insult mate. Keep it going.
He will soon be gone.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914446#Comment_3914446
How often do I need to win then? I very rarely lost with her FOR YEARS now. A majority of people I face have comp all over their profile.
Does nobody understand the counterplay then?
It doesn‘t have to do anything with winning. I just find it frustrating, that you can never use your teleport, because survivor shut TVs down at all times when they understand her. Same with condemned. They can disable it completely at all times. This just isn’t fun.
I see it in my games all of the time. When not playing much I face only people that don’t do anything to counter her. Easy win. Then sometimes I face one team, that completely nullifies any options to use all game long. I don’t enjoy completely dominating and being completely dominated depending on whether or not the survivors know how she works. The more I play her the more I get those teams and she only becomes frustrating to play. I didn’t get such teams much if I switched between killers, but if you only play her ….
I would be fine with losing all my matches if it was fun.
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@highpingmeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914434#Comment_3914434
They should nerf onryo so you finally shut up.
You just lost another account if the mods are clever and read this. You made it completely oblivious that your other account got banned.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914434#Comment_3914434
Please read what I've written above. It works.
Edit: her strongest map is awful for most m1 killers. She's borderline broken on it.
I‘ve read a lot of it and I know your opinion on her. It still doesn‘t change a thing about my argument and this character. She is only working because survivors either ignore her counterplay, don‘t know it or underestimate her. If survivors actually do what they are supposed to, all your stuff wouldn‘t work and you would have a completely different opinion. The only thing that makes her viable is the her noob stomper character.
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@radiantHero23 The only reason why current Sadako performs halfway decent is her low pick rate and survivors not understanding her, which both works together insanely well out for her. If survivors would do her counterplay, she would be insanely trash to play. If you don‘t have a good m1 map and if survivors use the extreme advantage they have over her whole ability, Sadako will lose against any well looping survivor team.
The only reason why her ability works is because you can abuse the fact that some people don’t know her counterplay, which screws over the whole team.
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Sadako is in a bad spot, agree. They only focused on condemned and gutted her mobility completely to make condemned stronger after her first rework. After which her condemned was too strong and they decided to weaken it, but they left her mobility still in the dumpster. Now her mobility and her condemned are terrible, which is a shame. But I guess her low pick rate makes her viable, because survivors still forget to do her counterplay and how she works.
PLEASE Behavior #Bring back Sadako map mobility
They should return her tape and TV mechanics to them from her first version (passive condemned, one Tv spreads condemned, no Tv auras). There condemned was easy to understand, her mobility was great and she was less of a noob stomper than she is right now. 1.0 was the best and fairest version we had for both sides. All they needed to do was adding condemned lock in and the other buffs the gave her, but without changing how she functions entirely. If they wanted to make condemned more lethal, they could have increased her radius where she spreads condemned or add a global passive condemned timer. This global timer has the advantage of being more consistent across all skill levels and being less abusable against players who don’t understand her.
The current all TV condemned is terrible designed. First of all, survivors who almost never play against her, don’t do the counterplay which gives Onryo the chance to fully condemned them in seconds. Against survivors who understand her and know the counterplay, she is basically screwed at all times. They can disable her condemned with 0 drawback and remove her whole map mobility.
Sadako’s ONLY strength is survivors misplaying at the moment.
3.0s design is so frustrating. I don‘t enjoy stomping people who don‘t understand her, while getting stomped without any counterplay on my part by strong survivors. Only because behavior decided to add so many things for players who don’t understand her, but these players aren‘t using these things either way. However, it makes her extremely frustrating to play against survivors who use this extreme advantage, which simply has no counterplay for Sadako.
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914321#Comment_3914321
No, the problem was self healing in general. You're essentially giving your entire team an extra perk
Have you seen anyone run self care in your recent memory? No?! You can‘t seriously think self care is too strong, so giving it to everyone is hardly any problem. It would benefit the killer far more if survivors waste 46 seconds self healing + searching for the totem + blessing the totem + running to the totem for self care.
Giving an extra perk slot to every teammate is also hardly a problem. Otherwise up the Ante would be one and it is extremely weak. The other boons are also a great example for this, they are all very weak as well and only useful in very specific situations. The only decent boon at the moment is shadow step, which isn‘t that great as well.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914128#Comment_3914128
Thanks for commenting!
Interesting take on CoB. That version could be good, but it would need testing to see how well it goes.
The other changes you mentioned also seem good.
I would not, however, make Undone punish great skill checks, as that would make it a lose-lose a bit-lose a lot perk.
I discussed Undone with @UndeddJester and there his argument was, that the perk should be aimed at being more effective against better players than being more punishing for soloq and bad players. This change also has the benefit of not being completely nullified by good players and countering extrem gen rush builds.
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914025#Comment_3914025
The self healing part was the problem. Thats why its gone now and has been gone for over 2 years already. So thankfully its never coming back
No. The problem was the speed at which you self heal not the ability itself or that killers couldn’t break totem basekit. You were healing yourself at 100% healing speed. With self care healing speed the killer would benefit a lot from survivors using it.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911869#Comment_3911869
There is no way in hell that more people were saying that he was a D-tier when the majority of the playerbase are survivor mains, let's be honest here.
Mandy is right. Most people underestimated him in the ptb and called him weak. Some said he is just another legion, who is considered weak…..
About „majority of the playerbase are survivor mains“, this doesn‘t matter. Most people in this forum are killer biased and guess who gives most feedback in the forum ptb section. In general killer players are a lot louder in the dbd than survivor players.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
Some? You mean most. Almost all of them. It's actually annoying. I'm a proponent for making Haste and Hindered not stack anymore but the execution here is so lacking. Why change barely any perks?
Agree. If you announce to remove stacking, you should have cooked up a lot to justify it.
All the perk changes in the ptb could have been done without removing stacking.
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This is massively overexaggerated!
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When everyone suggests to nerfs his vault speed, they forget to differentiate between pallet and window vault speed. The window vault speed should remain unchanged. The pallet vault speed is fine in my opinion, especially because he is a lot less enraged since the nerfs, but if they nerf his pallet vault the window vault should stay the same.
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Good suggestions.
I would suggest two more changes for COB with them it should probably stay at 150%.
- Generators on which Call of Brine is active, start regressing again when survivors leave them.
- Can be active on multiple generators (was one).
Instead of increasing Thrilling tremors duration I would let it activates for as long as you carry a survivor and make it linger for 16 seconds after you hook a survivor.
Thana could be 4%, that was the version before it got buffed to 20% and then nerfed to what we have now.Additionally to your suggestion Undone grants two tokens for great skill checks. That way it does something against better players as well.
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The haste of batteries include should be given to the killer based on the gen progress. Then it does something in the early game.
I hope for vault speed increase rather than more haste for dark theory and that they fix the general boon problems (too small range and too loud).
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Sad truth.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443277/kagune-mark
… Because Circle of Healing, if one Survivor brought it, would give people like three perks for free if they stood in an area and completely gutted hit and run playstyles when it was at its strongest. And it stacked with other effects.
The Ghoul's power can… get a hit with deep wound. And is part of the Killer's basekit.
This is the most bizarre case of whataboutery I've seen for a long time.
They didn‘t need to remove the self healing part tho. Just nerfing it down to self care speed and keeping the 100% altruistic speed would have been fine.
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@Dadeordye said:
What we got today is a step towards the right direction, but a very small one.
The two broken things about Kaneki are:
1-The speed of his vault while enraged = it's too damn fast. You can't go around a small rock again before Kaneki catches up tp the survivor. This needs to either be reduced or reduce the duration of Enraged Mode (because it still keep activated through the entire match basically).
2-Being able to cancel the power while still doing a leap = let's just say that if Kaneki can keep this then you have to give Wesker and Blight this option too.Blight and Wesker don‘t need to cancel their power, because they can already down you with it. Kaneki needs to cancel his power to down you on the other side.
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@Stibfa said:
Nerfing the cancel cooldown would make him useless in any loop and destroy his skill ceilling, the problematic thing about him is the vault that i can i agree with but if you touch his cancel any fun to be had on this killer is dead, and he turns i to a legion 2.0
Exactly. He‘s dead and the next chucky if they change his cancel.