KayTwoAyy
KayTwoAyy
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Me After My first 2 games
"It doesn't really feel like anything has changed. Sure, gens are slower, but a bad killer is still a bad killer."
Me after 5 games of killers camping and tunneling at 5 gens
"Really? Are we making up for lost time or what? Can we maybe not continue to tunnel the poor Jake on deathhook, 2 minutes into the match with no gens done?"
Me after encountering too many killers running Thana/Call of Brine/Overcharge
"Okay, this is just boring af. I've been working on the same gen for the past 5 minutes, and you haven't commit to a single chase. !#&% it, i'mma go find another gen to work on. ...really? all the gens are zero? tf is everyone else doing right now."
Me after realizing I'm in ELO Hell
"So you're just gonna try and finish that totem during a chain hunt, huh? You're not going to pick up that box that's 2-feet away from you?"
"So you just wan't me to pretend I can't see you crouching next to the hook on kindred, letting your teammate go to struggle, while I'm in chase across the map?"
"So you're just going to watch me do the last gen by myself, instead of finding your own, while the Mikaela is in chase? Yeah, no, that's fine. This couldn't possibly end poorly when the killer interupts me and finds out only 1 gen has progress."
Me after last game
"Nope. !#&% this. I'm done playing DBD. I am not spending the next 30 minutes trying to complete one generator."
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@Mozic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074763#Comment_3074763
I guess? If it's no longer reliable it might be worth slotting a different exhaustion perk.
I like risk/reward perks, but the variables that are creating risks for Dead Hard are a) physical human limitation and b) uncontrollables (i.e. network & hardware)
I am personally fine with running a different perk, i've been running a different perk my whole DBD life. But that doesn't excuse the fact that Dead Hard is now useless. Dead Hard as a reaction is not feasible with the current lunge animation times.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073095#Comment_3073095
And what is the goal of this improvement?
To please Guenther Steiner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5WVVls74mIWarning: Strong Language
I would have just posted the gif, but i'm sure it would have been considered trying to evade the chat filter
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073069#Comment_3073069
Nothing you can do about it. Unfortunately the survivor that does know what they're doing gets screwed up because they're matched with 1, 2 or 3 survs that don't or that are still learning.
And the fact that this game provides no info for survivors that are playing solo, makes it even worse.
There is nothing I can do about it, which is why I advocate for a more challenging game (for survivors). Making the survivor role more challenging is the only way that players will learn to improve.
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@Gorgonia said:
It's not okay... making one class rather useless simply because you wanted bad killers to look good is not okay. We have been getting 4kd in solo Q by awful killers.
This game is still incredibly survivor-sided--even in solo queue.
I'm sorry, but the average survivor is a complete airhead. That, or they play this game with a fraction of their brain, because the game has repeatedly rewarded them for doing so.
Basic concepts like "divide and conquer/split pressure," "take aggro/play safe" or "create space/don't loop near the f'ing hook" are completely lost on 90% of the survivors I come across.
I was in a lobby earlier today where the Jake stared at me doing a gen for 30 seconds, then deliberately walked into a zombie and tanked 2 hits before urban evading into the corner. I followed him, and we wasted the next 2 minutes together as I tried to deduce if he was AI or an actual player. Jake survived for at least 8 minutes, and finished the trial with 4k bp.
We completed 4 gens, and I died on first hook. How do you think that game would have gone if our Jake had even half a brain? My poor teammates are probably crying "this patch stinks, the killer is too strong!" when the problem is clearly not the killer.
This was an extreme example, but I see player behavior just as egregious on a daily basis.
Survivor is still a joke, and those that struggle to learn simple concepts should not be catered to. Learn how to play the game.
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I find it interesting that when I played Fortnite, I always made assumptions about a player's skill level and tendencies by their cosmetic.
Then I come over to DBD, and I couldn't care less what character or cosmetic people are using.
I mean, sure... Claudettes have a stigma (you're either a blendette who will urban evade all game, or you've got a flashy cosmetic on and you won't stop going for beemer saves), but I don't have any preconceived notions about any other characters or cosmetics in the game.
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On paper, Legion has always been good.
But in practice, he is only good against survivors who insist on constantly being full health--same with Plague.
Other killers know how to close the door. Legion only knows how to open it.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3051509#Comment_3051509
The difference being those Perks are made instantly available. You don't have to "find" them in the Blood Web or hope your favorite ones show up first on a new character.
They are already there. Grind over. Just play the game with the build you want and get T2 and T3 as they come when you level your character normally.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3051464#Comment_3051464
New players have not been screwed.
New player buys DBD, reads about the game, discovers which Perks from which characters they want.
So they go about leveling those characters to P1 to unlock the Perks they want.
The mostly likely scenario is that after they've done that is when they will settle on the character they want to play as the most.
Now this character already knows all of the Perks. They don't have to find them in the Bloodweb. They don't have to worry about not getting their preferred Perks first. They know them. They can start just playing the game and using whatever build they want because Tier 1 Perks still work just fine and in most cases the differences between Tiers is marginal.
It doesn't matter if they just want to play one person, it doesn't matter if they don't already own the game and pick it up new after this update.
It's a reduced grind.
New players absolutely have been screwed.
Old System
All 3 Teachables Unlocked by Lvl 40
New System
Zero Teachables Unlocked until Lvl 50
Tell me how the new system is better?
Previously, one could even stop investing in a character at Lvl 30, if they only cared about the first teachable.
The only people this "grind reduction" helps are those looking to P3 every character and have every perk available on all characters. This new system screws those who just bought the game and want flexibility in their builds.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
People always say swf should play kyf but there is no incentive to. No BP, no achievements, can't complete tomes or rifts, and no ranking. Custom games can be fun but I'd rather play against people who are also trying to win, especially those who are trying to win for a reason.
you should see the survivors I get paired with. I'd be baffled to learn that any of them are ever actually trying to do anything other than get me killed.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068499#Comment_3068499
Yes, I'd rather die and move on to the next game than get saved at the last possible moment, and have the killer down us both when there are still 4 gens left. You're missing the entire point. Ofc I don't expect people to go for unhooks when the killer is face-camping or proxying, I meant when he is clearly patrolling gens or is chasing someone else.
I'm not "crying or complaining" about people not having BT, that's an example of how it goes when the very few people (lately) that do go for unhooking, do it at the last stages of the 2nd hook stage. My main point was about the matter of the majority not going for hook rescues at all. When it clearly is safe to do so.
yeah, but your mindset is just as, if not more, selfish than that of the survivors who leave you on the hook. No one is escaping if a survivor dies at 4 gens. Clearly your teammates realize that, which is why they are making an effort (albeit untimely) to keep you in the game as long as possible.
If you want to give up just because the going gets tough, go play something else
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I don't run DS, but I'm also not going to dance around the fact that even 5 seconds is menial against more than half the killer roster.
Most of the time, the survivor with DS is downed because they were hook farmed or in a dead zone--either way, they rarely have many safe places to run in the allotted time.
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Well I would like to ask...
Would you prefer they leave you to die on that hook because they don't have BT, or would you rather they unhook you and pray a) they can body block, b) you have DS, or that c) the killer is merciful?
I sympathize with your post, but you cannot complain about "being unhooked without BT." Not everyone runs BT, and it is entirely possible no one in your lobby has BT. Cry all you want about being left to die on first hook, but when push comes to shove you need to be grateful someone is even attempting to trade their life for yours.
If I have BT, I know I'm the only one with BT, I can see on Kindred that the killer is camping, and I'm working on a generator across the map, guess what? I'm not running across the map to save you. That doesn't make one iota of sense--it is more time efficient for me to finish my gen, and trust the closer guys to decide your fate.
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I have 2.5k hours in this game. My experience has taught me that our collective chance of escaping is higher if 3 gens are completed while a survivor enters Stage 2, than if 0 gens are completed and the survivor is unhooked during Stage 1.
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As long as the killer isn't hook camping/farming purely for the sake of ruining another individual's game AND my teammates are not collectively doing nothing while that is happening... I can find something to enjoy.
I've got a lot of gripes with DBD, but I take no bigger issue than a buzzkill killer and 2/3 teammates who don't know how (or simply refuse) to punish that behavior by slamming gens.
Edit: ...if this post was your roundabout way of asking for fun build recommendations:
Try: Balance, Smash Hit, Dead Hard, and Head On
With the goal of activating each perk at least once while in chase. Killer will lose his f'ing mind.
I run a variant of this build with Vigil instead of Head On quite often now, only because Head On is difficult to see value without Q&Q
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@TheKissKing said:
opinion on your creations:
Reduce, Reuse, recycle: I assume 1 plank per broken pallet? if so seems fine, should get 2 uses on average per game, somewhat map dependant tho. Overall not bad.
Light the way: useless tbh
Immediate action: Not bad, an exhaustion perk that isnt a chase perk other than head-on. sounds good but still kinda weak compared to other exhaustion addons. Comfortable B tier
Locked in here: can be abused to troll, bad. its like repressed alliance (bad perk design)
Cold Blooded: the concept of punishing killers for taking very long to down you is interesting, but your method is very weak and needs and overhaul
Boon: interesting, seems balanced on paper but i cant tell for sure
Good feedback, thx!
Light the Way: The intention with LtW is to fill an information perk role while providing an opportunity for killer interaction like with Diversion. A survivor would use the perk to a) tell other survivors where they are, b) tell the killer where they are, or c) trick the killer into thinking a survivor is an area.
DBD is over-saturated with Aura Reading perks that provide little-to-no value for survivors who no longer need help finding things. Light the Way aims to move away from single-purpose training wheel perks that provide zero value to 90% of survivors.
Locked in Here: Troll potential came to mind when designing the perk. I don't believe it would be a prevalent issue, because most players develop their petty desires to sandbag teammates during the trial (after they've already selected their perks).
That said, this is the first iteration of a concept I have in mind (mainly, prevent teammates from abandoning one another once the gates are powered, and provide them with incentives to stick around), so I'm happy to redesign it.
Cold-Blooded: This is a tricky one to balance. I don't actually know how many times a killer gains bloodlust while in chase with me, or how often I make them lose it by forcing them to break a pallet.
In my experience, even good killers depend on Bloodlust Tier 1 to secure downs at relatively unsafe pallets. If every survivor was running this perk, it'd have an effect on the killer similar to Thanatophobia for survivors.
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I sort of agree with you..
I'd prefer it knocks you down a tier of bloodlust. So if you're Tier 3, it brings you down to Tier 2; Tier 2 down to Tier 1, and Tier 1 down to no bloodlust.
I don't know if it matters much tho, because if the survivor puts enough distance between you and the pallet the chase will end by the time you even finish breaking the pallet--thus removing bloodlust.
Personally, I only reach Bloodlust Tier 2 or 3 if i'm running a gimmicky build or entertaining my own curiosity as to what it would be like if I didn't break any pallets. I'd like to see some of those gimmicky builds made a bit more viable with this change, just to add another playstyle into the mix
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Sorry OP, but it is YOU who is missing the point.
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Huge respect to OP for the time and energy invested here!
Right off the bat, I never understood how unlocking 3 teachables at Lvl 50 was being advertised as 75% faster than unlocking 3 teachables by Lvl 40. Given the size of bloodwebs from Lvl 40 - 50, it should have been immediately apparent to anyone that the grind was doubling (if not tripling, with the removal of BBQ & WGLF bp bonuses).
This "grind reduction" update is incredibly tone deaf.
The playerbase is predominantly survivor--thus they do not care about having the grind reduced to max out every character. Most people, new players especially, want the grind reduced to unlock every teachable in the first place.
This update might alleviate my personal grind to P3 every character, but I'm lighting a candle for all the new players who have been screwed over by this change.
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@Ksekwlothreftis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050452#Comment_3050452
I dont know how what to comment about your situation.
U probably had your fun and most likely the killer had fun aswell. Neither u nor the killer should influence the amount of fun someone gets of a game. Its not your job to do. While u distracted the killer your teammates managed to complete the gens and escape.
As the arbiter of toxicity, I'm asking what you think of the killer's behavior
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@Ksekwlothreftis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050332#Comment_3050332
Thats the thing though isnt it? If u neglect aura perks u wont get aura. If u play a killer with a chase oriented build dont expect to protect gens efficiently. Same goes to survivors running second chance or healing perks
Right, i'm not disagreeing with you. Just felt I should comment on the nature of why people won't stop complaining about toxicity anytime soon.
While we're on the topic tho, what do you think about this scenario? Happened just minutes ago...
Watch "He tried so hard..." on Streamable.Killer running Franklin's chased me over half the game, then place a portal over the medkit I set on the ground and defended it instead of patrolling the last 2 gens or contesting the exit gates. The portal made it really difficult to pick up the medkit, and although I was chased 75% of the time, I wouldn't say I was tunneled because it was a short match.
I had fun--I accepted that my win condition was to escape with my medkit or die trying, and it didn't feel high stakes to me because I have 20 other purple medkits on Haddie.
Things to consider:
- My enjoyment was most likely at the detriment of 3 other survivors who had little-to-no interaction with the killer
- A survivor with less BP/less medkits in reserve may feel singled-out or targeted by this behavior
- In general, this was a massive refusal to participate in normal gameplay
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I think most people agree with you, OP. The issue is that the killer and survivor have two wildly different perspectives on how a match is evolving, so any particular behavior at any given time may appear more personal or vindictive to the opposing side.
Exhibit A:
The killer hooks their first survivor at 5 gens remaining, and can see the remaining 3 survivors are near or running towards the hook to make a play. The killer opts to camp hook, rather than commit to a chase, as securing a trade or even running the hook timer to second stage are strategically correct decisions.
The survivors, who are all solo and have no line of sight or aura reading on their teammates, see the killer is camping first hook at 5 gens. Each of them spin circles hoping the killer will run to them, but neither is succesful in goading a chase. From the survivors point of view, the killer is being toxic because they are forcing a second hook state/trade 3 minutes into the match with no gens done. What the survivors don't see is that no one is making any real progress on the objective, giving the killer substantial reason to leave hook and spread map pressure.
This is one scenario out of dozens, if not hundreds, that can occur in-game. And while the opposing side might be unjust for accusing their opponent of being toxic, this problem will never be remedied. The game is designed with information (or a lack-there-of) at its core.
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I sympathize with your sentiment, but I've been burned too many times by "scummy killers," and these other survivors have probably had the same experiences. Theres just not enough good faith going around because too many people take advantage of others' courtesy.
The two on death hook probably left because they didn't trust that you wouldn't take advantage of an opportunity for free sacrifices. In their eyes, it was the burden of the third survivor to unhook the fourth survivor. Its also possible they were a 4-man SWF and abandoned him for a laugh--my buddies and I will do that if we've had too many easy/chill games in one day.
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Just last night I was playing a game with my friends, we were all pretty beligerant at this point and not taking the game too serious. My one friend gets 3-hooked before the rest of us even get hit once (I wouldn't really say he was tunneled, because his dumbass kept running straight at the killer like he's never played DBD before). I end up D/Cing on first hook, because my friend's incompetence paired with the Dredge's build (MYC, Starstruck, Darkness Revealed, SH: Floods of Rage w/ Iri Plank & Boat Key) quickly became a buzzkill. My other buddy took this as a sign to let the killer hook him so we could all requeue immediately, so he runs straight at the killer.
The killer downs my friend, and slugs him for 2.5 minutes as he scours the map looking for the last survivor. He picks my friend up on two seperate occasions and even lets him wiggle off at one point. I advise my buddy at this time to help the killer find the last survivor, so we can play the next game, because the killer is now holding our game hostage.
At this point, as someone who plays both roles fairly evenly, I personally believe the killer owes it to the slugged survivor to give them hatch for playing along and having to tolerate 4+ minutes of sheer boredom. Killers who take advantage of the slug timer to 4k (and need the entirety of the slug timer just to find the last survivor) are doing so at the detriment of the slugged survivor's gameplay experience. Its pretty scummy to do so without showing the compliant survivor any form of gratitude.
My friend can't see anything in Darkness, so he can't find the last survivor and instead tries to get the killer to down him and put him out of his misery. That doesn't work, so I advise my buddy to go stand on a hill and AFK (there are 5 gens left, so no reason to even bother getting them done 2v1). Eventually, the 4th survivor is downed and hooked. The killer comes right over to my friend, and as soon as he picks him up, the 4th survivor unhooks themself. Immediately my friend is dropped, and we have to wait another minute before the killer downs the 4th survivor. The killer eventually comes back to my friend and hooks him on the nearest hook.
The whole thing felt really disrespectful. My friend could have d/c'd when I did and we would have found a new game faster than had we waited out this killer's BS. There also then would have been the chance that our 4th teammate escaped thru the hatch or exit gates.
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TL;DR Players don't treat each other with enough humanity to entertain someone who looks like they are farming
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@DoritoHead said:
Mindbreaker, I mean- Fearmonger, may become a legitimately good perk on Sadako or Freddy
this perk will never be good, because it helps survivors 99% their sprint burst. Depending on the changes to Spine Chill, it might receive a shadow buff. But as someone who either runs Sprint Burst or no exhaustion perks, Fearmonger is a joke.
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Personally, I recommend stepping away from DBD and finding another way to occupy your time.
It has become increasingly more difficult to enjoy just about any online PvP game these days, because content creators make a living advertising what is overpowered, what is meta, and what is a waste of time.
It seems a lot of gamers are gravitating to games/mechanics that can fulfill their power fantasy and give them the dopamine kick their brain is looking for. I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'd wager a lot of the toxicity and aggression we see in the gaming community comes from player expectations (what they watched in a video) not matching their reality. The dopamine never kicks in for these players and they lash out as a result.
I don't really see this problem going away any time soon. Individual game studios have been forced to navigate this problem on their own; few have managed to overcome, most are just barely keeping their neck above water (typically by constantly shifting the meta to create the illusion of diverse gameplay), while others like BHVR are drowning and far from the water's surface.
BHVR specifically has a LONG LONG WAY to go to resolve DBD's balancing issues. They simply are not making enough changes fast enough to facilitate the change needed to improve the game. Meanwhile, the meta has remained unchanged for years, and the playerbase has a whole has shown no indication that they ever intend to explore the plethora of other perk options.
I stopped playing DBD in January, and it really has been all sunshine and rainbows since.
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@GoshJosh said:
“Solid 10/10” - if you only play killer, I guess.
Across 5-6 thousand games, I most likely played Survivor 80% of the time (solo queued roughly 60% of that).
The game has been so easy for survivors for so long, that the foundation on which the game is built is crumbling under itself. Survivors are bored--they're not attacking the objective with any real sense of urgency, and they're often seen acting against their team's own interests.
BHVR cannot correctly assess which direction the game needs to go in when so many players are refusing to participate in normal gameplay.
A buff for 2 very underwhelming killers and a new mechanic that Survivors need to play around is a very healthy addition to the game. It doesn't solve all the problems, but its a step in the right direction.
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@bm33 said:
They seem to rely alot on stats saying something is fine while ignoring the player base going "this isn't fun, it's encouraging unfun gameplay."
It'd be like a chef giving you something that has all the nutrition you need but ignoring people when they say "this doesn't taste good, it needs more flavor."
Great analogy. Take my upvote!
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@Pulsar said:
Maybe we could look at why people hate MMR instead of punishing them.
I'm not excusing smurfing, but it's really just indicative of a larger issue.
Also, maybe make the MMR actually determine skill.
Not to detract from your great point of looking at why people hate MMR, but smurfing has been around for almost 20 years. It is a thorn in the side of all ranked games, regardless of how good their matchmaking system is or gameplay balance is.
BHVR absolutely needs to take a look at MMR, but nothing other than its existence is to blame for smurfing.
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@Munqaxus said:
@KayTwoAyy Only forum user, so far, willing to go down the data rabbit-hole to bust forum myths.
eyyy
<3 right back at yah! Easily one of my favorite discussions having been a part of on this forum.
Hopefully this response sends because i’ve been having a lot of trouble for some reason (:
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High MMR survivors don’t need to see their MMR to know they are in high MMR, so you must be in low MMR.
xd jk lol gotcha!
But seriously, those are the type of comments I’m seeing on this forum. It renders an entire discussion futile, because its not even an argument worth winning. …not that I think anyone was ever trying to have serious discussion on this forum in the first place.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Ignoring the Fixes to Nurse (which were asked for A LOT) and the Fixes to the false feedback from Dead Hard (which was also asked a lot)?
This community...
With 10k comments on this forum, you should know as well as anyone else that no one here plays Nurse. Of course no one is going to jump for joy at her bug fix--it's a long overdue solution to a problem the Nurse mains have been asking to see for years.
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@GuyFawx said:
So im forcing myself to actually get good at being Hag as ive always found games against her fun. So its time to flip the script as they say in showbiz and finally really give playing a killer a shot rather than just an easy way to make bp. There are a lot of old guides for hag out there and while they are still somewhat good im looking for a build and play style for her that is newer maybe using some artist perks tho the build doesnt need too. So please give me some tips and strats to playing her well as well as what perks to switch too if i see a flashlight in the lobby. Thanks in advance for any advice you may provide.
Unfortunately I have nothing to offer in terms of advice or resources.
...but I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why hag is fun to play against.
Personally, I find her to be the most boring killer to play as and against, so I'm slightly intrigued by your post.
I should note:
Every hag I come across is either running Devour Hope/Make Your Choice (rightfully so, it is a strong build) or Franklin's with Silent Traps. Its a landslide 4k every time.
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While 100 games is a decent number for any person to play, its really not that many for determining MMR when you're only playing a killer for 4-5 games, on average.
Even if there is a weighted MMR system, where your General MMR will passively effect your Killer-Specific MMR, constantly playing new killers is going to slow the rate at which you rank up.
Either way, I think we can all agree that the MMR system is too unsophisticated to be any real indication of a person's skill and ability to win. That, or their back-end system cares more about correctly predicting the outcome of a trial than providing an evenly matched one.
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@Haddix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731377#Comment_2731377
You're looking for a reason. I told you the reason.
You did not, and I stated this. I'm looking for a reason as to why all of these meaningless changes are prioritized.
Apparently, you prefer to just assumed BHVR is a studio filled with idiots.
Nope. I'd prefer not to throw snarky comments at each other either, so keep them to yourself. I'm not insulting your intelligence or your deductions, and I actually validated the reason (for individual changes) that you provided. It makes SENSE for BHVR to use "identity" as reasoning to change things regardless of their place in the overall balance of the game or character, even if I don't personally agree with that reasoning. However, as I said, you're missing my overall point. It's not about Marvin's Blood or Toy Sword and the individual cases as to why they were changed, it's about priority and how it's been consistently bad, confusing, insulting, and out-of-touch with the community for a very long time now, and, since you introduced your argument, given that you're correct in your assumption about the value they place on the identity of characters, why they'd value identity and the minuscule, time-wasting changes they're making to adjust their personal visions for the game over balance when balance and the health of the game are far more of an issue at the current moment.
It's like a surgeon who's fixing a broken toe and treating a cut on the leg while a brain is leaking blood, with a whole room of people behind them SCREAMING to just address the brain. Sure, maybe fixing that broken toe and patching up that little cut on the leg would be good things to address later on, but you cannot deny that the leaking brain is far more of a problem, and neither can you blame all of those other people in the room for getting more frustrated for every minute the surgeon ignores that problem.
I hope you understand my point this time around.
I really didn't intend for that to be a snarky comment. Was just my observation that you threw my response out the window and posed the same question over again.
Your point is much more clear now.
I agree with you, I think they do a pretty poor job responding to problems (even glaring ones), and they have a history of releasing content that is incredibly tone-deaf. I don't work for BHVR, so obviously I don't know what their internal structure looks like, and how that effects the game's development, but whatever process they do have in place is wildly inefficient.
The second half of the developer notes are all changes I probably would have thought up on the drive over to the office. An hours worth of work at most. These are the kind of changes I think they should be implementing every week, because they are easy number changes to program and the worst that happens is they break the game for a week--instead of months where we all scream and shout and wait until the next major bug fix.
But when it comes to listening to community feedback, I think there is a major case of "too many cooks in the kitchen." There are a lot of strong opinions on this forum, and very few people seem interested in having an actual conversation.
Just look at the Feedback page on these forums. Its dead. No one actually wants to discuss potential improvements to the game or promote community-made ideas. Its no wonder that so many feedback-related posts are created in General Discussions, because everyone knows their ideas are Dead on Arrival in Feedback.
As a result, there is no real serious discussion happening on these forums.
It must be really difficult for the devs to filter out the noise, especially when mods are constantly punting conversations over to Feedback that are far from constructive.
BHVR missed the boat when they decided not to use Fog Whisperers as consultants. Not only are Fog Whisperers playing their game as a full-time job, but they are directly interacting with the community. They may not always have the best ideas, but they've got their finger on the pulse.
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@Pulsar said:
Nobody talking about the huge Nemesis nerf.
They nerfed his two best add-ons and are still refusing to see WHY they were so popular.
I addressed the nerf to Marvin's Blood in another forum thread.
I'm fairly certain we can look at their comments surrounding Trickster's main event to ascertain that Marvin's Blood was ruining the climatic moment they are looking to build with Nemesis.
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@Haddix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730703#Comment_2730703
Marvin's blood did not remove or significantly change his identity.
If something slightly alters the identity that Game Designer #4 intended, then its position in the game should be assessed. First of all, to a degree, we have to recognize that addons are intended to change the killer's identity. It's when they go too far is when they're problematic (i.e extremely transformative to the point where the killer is FAR different in a way that's not very healthy).
Is it stripping the killer from their entire identity? No.
If it WERE to, could that "new identity" be adopted as an improvement on the original? Sure thing, because game design as a whole is an iterative process.
Is it unbalanced? No.
Is it widely agreed upon that it feels bad to play against? No.
Is it too transformative? No.
Is it even really TALKED about? No.
Is it used a lot? Yes.
Is it used a lot because it makes Nemesis far too strong of a character? No.
Is it used a lot because it's a useful add-on that's more appealing than the other weak links in the addon set? Likely.
Is Game Designer #4 very happy that it doesn't PERFECTLY align with the identity that they intended Nemesis to have? Sure! What should we do about it? Give them a "too bad."
Why "too bad?" Because there are so. many. other. places. to direct focus, time, and thought towards; things that THOUSANDS of people are asking for, not just one person in BHVR's office. This change is meaningless. It's unnecessary as hell. So are all of the others that I listed.
I'm not here to talk about Marvin's Blood my friend. That's one teeny tiny little piece of the much bigger picture that shines a light on the awful design philosophy that BHVR has. I'm done talking about Marvin's Blood. We disagree. That'll be all.
The bigger picture is that they have a vision for each killer, and they adjust add-ons based on that vision. ...as was the case with Marvin's Blood.
You're looking for a reason. I told you the reason.
Apparently, you prefer to just assumed BHVR is a studio filled with idiots.
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@BlindMole said:
Why just a river? Cry me an ocean! Dude, always try to get the big picture
You think there are enough of us to make that happen? I always thought it was just 20 of us posting on the forums every day. xd
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@Haddix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730442#Comment_2730442
Dude, you need to calm down.
I understand that I'm being a little dramatic, but that statement has never once calmed anyone down in the history of humankind. Convince me instead. Convince literally everyone else here.
Just because you don't understand, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason.
While you might only care about balancing changes, BHVR values thematics and design intention.
That is not a good reason. This is a multiplayer PVP game; you don't value "thematics" over important, significant balance changes that can improve the quality of this game. Neglecting good changes in favor of things that nobody else but BHVR's balance team deem an issue creates such a huge disconnect between the community and them. What you're providing as reasoning is the kind you'd see in patchnotes for a game like Fallout or Skyrim, not Dead By Daylight.
Either way, that reason alone does not help me in understanding their thought process. If they're valuing thematics, then I can get why individual changes are made, but I don't understand THAT'S what they value for their multiplayer PVP game. Why is Marvin's Blood's nerf being more thematic for Random Game Designer #3 and #4's intended gameplay flow for Nemesis more important over 1. Balance 2. Actual changes that we are asking for.
I don't care if Toy Sword being 0.05% weaker is more in-line with the 3rd paragraph of Twins' lore, nobody is asking for it. This wouldn't be that much of a problem if this was just an isolated incident, but this has been happening over, and over, and over, and over again. This community is dissatisfied. Prioritizing so much ######### that's barely relevant to the design of this game is an i n s u l t to that. This is the type of garbage that is filling up more than half of a midchapter patch. This is what they dedicated time and resources towards thinking and changing instead of things that we are asking for.
So TLDR, to respond to your first statement, I DO understand why specific changes were made. I DON'T understand why those changes are prioritized, nor why their reasoning is anything but balance (not thematics, not design intention) when so many things could benefit from the effort that was put towards these meaningless changes.
The reason thematics is as important as balance is because a character's theme is the reason you play them--it is their identity.
Balance is such an iterative process; it is a lot of trial and error, looking at data, listening to feedback, etc. If you just follow that process wherever it leads, the final result can end up very far from where you started. Identity is the captain that stears the ship.
So when any developers are designing a game (or elements within a game), all the changes they make are held up against the game's identity and asked "does this change your identity?"
If yes, then they go back to the drawing board and try to find a better solution.
Sometimes, in the case of Freddy, the developers will decide to abandon an identity and establish a new one.
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@DBD78 said:
..have two buttons one for "Well played" and one for "GG" and that is all you can say, since that seems to be so important to hear after a game for some people.
Either people play toxic to get reactions in chat or they have to be toxic in chat to make up for losing a game. Why give these people such platform?
And before you say ignore the chat I play on Xbox having messages not allowed so no problem for me. But I see how this upsets so many getting threats and such and I can't understand the point of a chat for a game like this. There will always be a lot of minors playing this game and at least they need to be protected.
I'm far more likely to play a multiplayer game with a global chat feature than I am to play one without.
I don't know the psychology behind it, but I've abandoned games that were relatively fun on the basis that I couldn't communicate with the other players.
Whether it is a wholesome "GG," and inquisitive "why did you do that?", a snarky "get good," or a less favorable insult, being able to express my thoughts and hear others' scratches a certain part of my brain that keeps me coming back.
I understand the desire to remove a means in which people can try to cyberbully others, but those who really want to hurt others will always find a way. I recommend closing the chat bar, because I think I'd abandon this game without the ability to talk after a match.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730442#Comment_2730442
I hate to inform you of this but even after the nerf it will probably only take one more hit
So you can out of here with the it's design bullshit when the difference is only one hit
Okay, be ignorant. Fine by me.
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@Haddix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730236#Comment_2730236
This is why I'm so fed up. There are SO MANY people here who play this game a ton and have so many great ideas for healthy balance changes and fun gameplay ideas that would improve the gameplay loop...but the people who ARE in charge, the ones who are making these changes, are making them off of raw numbers. I know they argue that they play their own game, I know Almo2001 used to stream this game every other night or so, but that doesn't MEAN anything. What makes that mean something, what SHOWS that they understand the community, is reflected in the changes that they make.
The changes they make are not based on good experience playing this game. I haven't heard a single person complain about MIKHAEL'S EYE or MARVIN'S BLOOD being too strong of an addon. That is PURE, PURREEEEE ignorance. It was a change that was EXTREMELY obviously made from blind faith in statistics, and I doubt those statistics even indicated they were too strong.
I understand they're minor, but it's not the changes themselves, it's what they represent in how the devs prioritize and make changes. It saddens me. It saddens me so much.
Dude, you need to calm down.
Just because you don't understand, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason.
While you might only care about balancing changes, BHVR values thematics and design intention.
Looking at the discussions around Trickster's Main Event, and the Developer's desire to build up to a crescendo with his power, we can reason that Nemesis is designed with a similar power curve in mind. Nemesis is not supposed to be super strong early in the trial--his Tier-system is an intentional design choice, as is the limited number of antidotes.
Early in the trial, survivors can shrug off an infection by picking up an antidote, and pallets can actually be used to put some distance between the survivor and the killer. As the trial goes on, Nemesis grows in power--quite literally as he Tiers up, and by proxy of a deminishing number of antidotes remaining in the trial.
Marvin's Blood completely negates the thematic intentions of Nemesis' design, and provides players with an underwhelming shortcut to the finish line.
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I see #2 and #3 most often.
It becomes tedious.
It is also a vicious cycle.
First come the people that need to do a background check just to respect your opinion. Then, once you’ve entertained them, in walk the people who make fun of you for “bragging about how good you are.”
By the end, the discussion is no longer on topic, and it has devolved into a petty war where everyone is comparing 🍆 sizes.
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I used Wake Up a ton while going for the achievement where you need to finish the last generator as the last remaining survivor and escape thru the exit gate.
It will always be great for that last alive scenario, so whether or not you find value in the perk depends on how often you find yourself in that situation.
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Agreed, I was expecting something more.
Especially disappointing knowing this means another 6 months will go by and nothing has been done about the balancing issues on our two newest maps
All the changes look good, tho. Some new perks made more viable is always great.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727954#Comment_2727954
By all means, bring the dictionary. All they said was "Tru3 did this, and came up with this". This isn't gaslighting. It's not challenging your sanity in any way. It was stating a fact that something happened and data was gathered.
Sit down, and read the dictionary.
Stay on topic, please.
@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727935#Comment_2727935
That Otz isn't evidence of anything and you do a massive disservice to yourself trying to use his video as evidence of anything.
please go reread the context I provide around that video. Does it sound like I’m treating Otz’s words as gospel?
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727935#Comment_2727935
Gaslighting doesn't mean what you think it means.
Dictionary.com walks into the coversation...
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727854#Comment_2727854
Tru3 did this exact same test and got 0.98 average.
Are you trying to gaslight me? What is your point with this comment?
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@Kalinikta I've been meaning to ask, why do you think the developers are so pressed about the issue of face-camping, and not all forms?
I am of course assuming that we agree I do not face-camp (as demonstrated in my video).
I think it stands to reason that face-camping is the least effective form of camping, so why is it a problem? Are we just accepting that so many people in the community are incapable of overcoming an insignificant challenge? Or are the devs recognizing that the game is not designed to help survivors overcome this problem?
And where does that leave my demonstration of camping? I wouldn't classify what I did as proxy-camping--it is a hybrid.
I think my demonstration is a more concerning issue than face-camping because it presents the same quandry that we've seen in DBD and in many other online multiplayer games--success via low skill floor with big reward.
...but to play devil's advocate against myself for just a moment, I wanted to share a video that Otz just released. Although I don't think it instantly discredits the results I've been seeing, and their correlation to camping, he does point out that my success in this study is not a 1 to 1 causation. We touched on this topic breifly @Kalinikta, when I asked you what you'd think about matchmaking accounting for player builds.
Edit: You also brought it up early in this thread, but I don't think the conversation at the point was ready to identify the problem, so I had put off the remarks until now--the conversation has since shifted to thinking about solutions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acHiwnCW7eI -
@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726004#Comment_2726004
Not trying to be rude but I love how you say it's continue it's trajectory but even the graph you posted shows it going down and down these past few months I'm sorry I just found that hilarious 😂
It is clearly on an upward trend.
If you've never seen Steam Charts before, that tail end downward slope is this month, and it will be up above the red line by the end of January.
The current month is always "down" until the month ends, and then it reveals its true position. Considering we should be receiving a mid-chapter patch this month, the average player count will most assuredly be higher in January than it was in December.
...and if you are reffering to the hill in the middle of 2021, that is just the rise and fall of players following the announcement and release of the Resident Evil chapter. You will notice that 2020 has the same, albeit smaller, spike in the middle of the year--this was for the Silent Hill chapter. And again, 2019 had a spike for the Ash vs Evil Dead chapter and in 2018 for the release of Spirit (and probably a marketing campaign).
These spikes are not indicative of the overall trend, which is that DBD is rising in popularity and growing at a steady rate.
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726082#Comment_2726082
The developers already said "NO". They do not want 8 scourge hooks in the game.
MS should be a scourge hook perk:
- Kobe is not possible on scourge hooks;
- Accelerates Sacrifice Progression by 3/6/9 %.
- Scourge hooks are always the ones in the basement.
If devs are a hard no on 8 Scourge Hooks in the game, then I'm a big fan of this proposed rework. I believe Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain's status effect appears the moment you are hooked, so Monstrous Shrine would let survivors know "hey, you can't unhook yourself so don't bother trying."
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Fun might be subjective, but we are playing a video game.
So it 100% belongs in the discussion.
In fact, it is a fruitless endeavor to balance something that is not fun.
Fair ≠ Fun
Fun ≈ Fair
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I think Monstrous Shrine should be turned into a Scourge Hook that makes basement hooks Scourge Hooks--the Undying of Scourge Hooks.
If you actually crunch the numbers, Monstrous Shrine does nothing.
It only makes it 15% harder to self-unhook.
That is .6 of 4 or .006 of 4%. Regardless of whether they calculate the 15% out of the percentage, or just the number 4, Survivors still have a 3.4% chance to unhook themselves AT BEST. Why would anyone equip a perk that negatively effects survivors by only .6%?
I had 4 of 6 survivors unhook themselves in the basement while I was running Monstrous Shrine. 3 of them escaped on first attempt.
Edit: Corrected typo
