KateMain86
KateMain86
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@mugi said:
Goodbye, my Rancor.😥
Simply asking for obsession not to switch survivors if the killer has rancor is not me asking for rancor to be removed.
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If you spawned as the Obsession and see the Killer's aura for 3 seconds when a gen gets completed, it's a sign that the Killer has Rancor and you as the Obsession should get as much distance as possible from the Killer towards the end of the game especially when 1-2 gens are left.
I stopped reading your reply here, because you clearly didn't read mine and assumed I didn't know how Rancor worked when this had nothing to do with me not knowing how it works.
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@Crowman said:
You are complaining that a killer running two perks that don't really do anything before all gens are done combo together in the end game.
I'd prefer to not become the obsession with exposed and instant kill status effects for dropping a pallet. There are too many random chance encounters in this game, and so many of them favor the killer.
@appleas said:
Nemesis + Rancor is rng now?
You would have a better argument if it was Game Afoot/Friends til the End + Rancor
Rancor is in fact RNG. The obsession is chosen at random in every match unless you're using something that makes you the obsession. The randomness of it all is dropping a pallet in a time when it should mean the most and you get insanely punished for it. There is nothing fair or balanced about that.
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A lot of really great and super popular games have come out recently like Palworld so my guess is people are just playing other games right now.
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@lagosta said:
It was scrapped bc it paradoxically gave killers an incentive to slug
Sometimes I wonder how much thought actually goes into some of these proposed changes.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647465#Comment_3647465
But here is the thing: they aren't BM. Choosing a cool animation instead of a third hook as a way to finish the game does not reflect someone's toxicity, or lack of, in any way.
The same reasoning can be applied to keys, as they are an optional way to finish a match. Instead of going through the gates, you jump inside the hatch. Sometimes an entire team did it, I myself had the achievement before they made it impossible to get. But it doesn't mean anyone was being toxic, it just means the match ended in a different manner.
Its usually when it involves proxy camping and tunneling that I do, which unfortunately is what I see most common with them. If you're tunneling survivors, I just consider you toxic.
Your complaint here has nothing to do with Moris themselves, but instead with playstyles. A toxic killer can tunnel someone out immediately without a Mori, just like a toxic survivor can tbag at every pallet without having a key. There is very little difference in the two.
But the offering itself doesn't have anything to do with toxicity. Like I said, if you assume the worst for everything that happens in a match, you'll see toxicity everywhere.
You can keep saying the same things but it doesn't matter to me. Moris in DBD are no different than fatalities in MK. They are 100% BM when you have the option to hook the survivor or kill them in a brutal manner. You can take it as agree to disagree or keep rambling on. You're not going to convince me otherwise. I don't assume the worst for everything that happens in a match. I come to reasonable conclusions based on player behavior. If I see a killer tunneling, I consider that toxic. If I see the killer go after the unhooker instead of the unhooked survivor then I respect that killer. Its all about discerning situations, but its also personal because there are players who don't think camping, tunneling or slugging is toxic at all despite the fact changes have been made to the game to address some of these issues.
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@IamFran said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647064#Comment_3647064
How a game mechanic of an offering is toxic? it is just a cool cutscene which make every killer even more unique. When playing survivor I prefer to die in the hook instead of being moried, sure, but it doesn't mean I consider it something toxic. Also, considering how rare the mori offerings are because most people perfer to use BP offerings make the mories feels like a waste of resources when designing a killer, a finishin mori would make them more frequent so it doesn't feel like something wasted in every killer.
A finisher mori would negatively effect how survivors play the game too much in my opinion. I think many, maybe even most survivors wouldn't want to be the last survivor. They could see it as humiliating, or not care either way. Its too risky of a change that risks changing the way people play the game too much.
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It really needs a buff. Apart from literally just face camping, it doesn't seem to do too much. It doesn't deter killers from staying away from hooked survivors as much as it should have. At best, its only stopped the face camping. Thats good, but it needs to encourage killers to go around more places than just stick around the hook area.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647315#Comment_3647315
So does mine. Ever since I first started playing DBD, all the way back in 2018, I've met countless players who like the Mori animations. Especially as they became increasingly more elaborate throughout the years. Oni's mori, for instance, is vastly different from Wraith's.
The mere fact that moris are optional and by no means required to win a match makes them a form of BM.
I don't follow your line of thought here.
Doing Totems is optional, not required to win. Is that also BM? Using keys? Opening Chests?
Something being optional definitely does not make them a form of bad manners. Keys are known as the equivalent to Moris, but using them doesn't automatically makes a player toxic. The complaints about keys had to do with balance, and it is the same for Moris.
A player can be very respectful and still want to use a Mori or a Key during a specific trial. A toxic player is easily able to play a match without using them. I've seen both scenarios since I first started playing.
If you assume the worst for everything that happens in a match, you'll see toxicity everywhere.
The only things I've ever really considered toxic in DBD is camping, tunneling and slugging. When I say moris are a form of BM because they are optional has to do with the means by which the killer chooses to eliminate the survivor. That is why I used the fatality in MK comparison as an example. You can end the match with a basic attack, or you can choose to rip their spine out and hold it up as a trophy. You see how the 2 different ways to end the match can be taken very differently. I know some people don't care. We just have different perspectives on this. If you're fine and never see any ill intent behind having your guts ripped out, especially after being tunneled down, then more power to you. I see it as BM. If moris were the only way killers could eliminate survivors then it would just be part of the basic mechanics of the game so you could never really consider any other intent. There are some occasions where I don't consider moris as BM. Its usually when it involves proxy camping and tunneling that I do, which unfortunately is what I see most common with them. If you're tunneling survivors, I just consider you toxic.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647204#Comment_3647204
It most certainly does not reflect the experience of every player out there
It doesn't, but neither does yours. We have to offer our own perspectives, and they might not be true for everyone else out there, but that is what makes a debate. Otherwise, this discussion becomes pointless.
I absolutely do not see Moris as a form of BM, they are simply a more elaborate manner of eliminating a survivor from the trial. The same goes for Pyramid Head and Onryo, who can execute such kills at base-kit. Or Myers, who has two add-ons for it. We can also mention Rancor or Devour Hope.
Are all of those toxic? I really do not think so.
Negative opinions towards Moris are often associated only with balance. Together with keys, they were considered overpowered. But that is no longer the case.
And even back then, not everyone disliked them. I've even played with several survivors who had usernames requesting Moris.
But it does reflect the opinion of many players I have played with over the past 3 years. You were speaking exclusively from your own experience and opinion about them as if there was nothing intrinsically wrong with it. The mere fact that moris are optional and by no means required to win a match makes them a form of BM. Its fine if players are doing it for a challenge or think it'll give them a better chance to win, but don't pretend like there is never any ill intent behind players using them. I've dealt with enough toxic killers over the past 3 years to know otherwise. I can tell you the many leatherface killers I've went against using the red mori and face camping before the changes weren't doing it to be sportsmanlike and without any ill intent. Like I said, if moris were built into the game as normal gameplay from the very beginning we wouldn't be talking about this.
This change would make becoming the last survivor the most avoided thing ever. I think it would change almost entirely how survivors play the game and not for the better.
@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647204#Comment_3647204
It's impossible to know what someone's intent is behind using a mori. If you assume the worst of someone's intentions then you tend to end up seeing toxicity everywhere. I've played plenty of games where someone perceives BM purely because they are in a bad mood. One time someone said I was being toxic because I did air combos on them in Tekken. It wasn't toxic. They were just upset that I beat them and they wanted some justification for their salt and subsequent outburst.
A lot of perceived toxicity is just the recipient having a bad attitude. There's plenty of BM in this game, but using a Mori alone isn't enough to dermenine that.
I've seen enough survivors tunneled into a mori to come to a pretty clear understanding of what their intent is. Either way, this all comes down to how we each see it personally. I absolutely reject the idea that moris are not used as a form of BM by many players. Besides that, the idea of a finisher mori to end the match seems too rewarding to the killer. It would also mean killers wouldn't have to 12 hook to 4k anymore. I think it would also encourage more slugging to the last 2 survivors since the killer knows that if they down 1 and refuse to hook them they only have to find the other one to win.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647139#Comment_3647139
They are also optional and bad mouthing. You're not saying GG to your opponent when you do a fatality on them. You're pretty much just throwing a middle finger in their face.
Nope, you are just seeing an awesome animation. Same with the current Moris.
If I am playing Mortal Kombat and my opponent finishes me with Erron Black's Six-Shooter fatality or Freddy Krueger's Welcome To My Nightmare (those two are amazing) there is absolutely no way I'm taking it as some sort of BM. Again, same with Moris.
On both games your character's brutal death is a possibility, and it should be. We're talking about a horror game and a fighting game, after all.
They aren't toxic, never have been.
You're assuming the intent behind every reason why the player does it is of no ill will. If you think every time a killer moris a survivor they're doing it to say GG then I don't know what to tell you. You're speaking from your own perspective on this. It most certainly does not reflect the experience of every player out there. I know from my own experience with my friends and that of the thousands of other players I've played with that moris have not been received well by everyone. Maybe it would be different if moris were a basekit feature for killers since the beginning players would see them differently but they've always been an optional way to eliminate a survivor. You don't have to do it, so when a killer does do it I hope you can see how players could take it as a form of BM.
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A character like Legion shouldn't even be in DBD. A killer that has a power that lets you track every survivor after hitting one just once and forces them to mend off the effect or it downs you is beyond OP. Not to mention the fact it lets him fast vault pallets and windows too. He's just too annoying to deal with.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647139#Comment_3647139
I disagree with this personally. Death by the hook or death by a mori. How that makes them feel is on them. Mori’s by themselves are not bad mouthing. It’s just an alternate way of defeating your opponent.
The reason why they are bad mouthing is because they are optional and forces the survivor to watch the killer brutally murder their character in a cinematic scene you can't skip. Its like hitting hooked survivors on the hook. The killer gains nothing from doing it other than some sort of deranged self gratification. The offering itself is also rather unfair as it prevents the killer from having to 12 hook and lets them 4k with only 8 hooks. So its bad mouthing and comes with a match advantage. Survivors don't have an offering that lets them complete their objectives faster, but killers do.
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647139#Comment_3647139
Not necessarily. Fatalities are just cool to do especially on different characters and maps. Experienced players stop doing them because they've seen it before and they want to speed things up.
They get boring really fast. Don't get me wrong. I'm a big Mortal Kombat fan (up until MK X) and its always cool to see the new things when a new game comes out but as far as the fatalities go you just get sick of seeing them after awhile.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647064#Comment_3647064
I do it because Mori’s are fun. I just enjoy the animation.
Thats fine. But this is also why they should be optional and not a basekit mechanic in the game.
@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647064#Comment_3647064
I think this sentiment also comes from a time where people would run Iri Mori’s and just tunnel people off first hook and kill them instantly.
Mori’s used to be stupidly OP, same with keys.
They were and I remember criticizing the old mori system back in the day too. It was beyond unfair that all the killer had to do was hook you once and then tunnel you down off the hook to get the mori. This was also in a time where there were no basekit unhook protections.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647064#Comment_3647064
Toxic? Fatalities in Mortal Kombat are awesome, they are one of the reasons why people play that game.
Moris in DBD lack brutality, but they are cool. The downside of them being nerfed is that you barely see them anymore.
They are also optional and bad mouthing. You're not saying GG to your opponent when you do a fatality on them. You're pretty much just throwing a middle finger in their face.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647036#Comment_3647036
I don't want it to be scrapped entirely. Having moris be a part of the base game would be really cool, but the way they did it was really weird.
I think it would be a good idea if the Cypress Mori was made basekit, and anti-slug mechanics would activate when 2 Survivors are remaining. That way we'd see the animations more without affecting the base game so much.
I've met killer mains before who said they don't use them because they consider it toxic. Its like fatalities in Mortal Kombat. You don't have to do them but a lot of people do them to bad mouth their opponent.
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I hope the next update we get is that it has been scrapped.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646339#Comment_3646339
Yeah, hatch is too RNG based. But just as often as I've had the hatch spawn in my face as a killer, the same has happened to me as a surv. I've had the hatch spawn right in my path just as the killer was going to down me on more than one occasion. And yeah, it feels bad to get totally jobbed by RNG like that. It feels every bit as bad to play an amazing, fair game of killer, get three kills, and then have the hatch spawn right under the last surv.
But the reality is that the game is essentially always decided by RNG to some degree via map generation. If you're playing DBD in either role, you're either being helped or hindered by luck. It's baked into the DNA of the game. But all that passive RNG doesn't seem like as much of a direct middle finger as when the hatch spawns under the killer, or vise versa.
That hatch is a coin flip, and that's about as statistically fair as it gets. If we're looking for a "skill based" alternative, I don't think one is forthcoming. What could one be? Last surv can hack the gate via minigame? Solve some sort of puzzle? Any solution would difficult when there is only one surv for the killer to focus on, and if it were a means that was quickly accessible, it wouldn't be fair to the killer.
I'd actually be curious to see what the stats are when hatch spawns in terms of the killer closing it vs. the surv getting through it. I'd expect near 50/50.
If someone has a viable alternative, I'd be happy to hear it. But there is a lot of complaining about hatch, but essentially nothing in the way of solutions (if it can even be considered a problem).
Less perks and more basekit powers is a start. The more perks that are added the more the RNG factor kicks in.
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All this does is reward the killer a 4k for getting 2k. Way too much plays in favor of the killer in this game. The current hatch system is not very good either in my opinion. Its complete RNG that takes nothing into consideration. You could be the most altruistic, gen repairing, totem cleansing, killer looping survivor on the team but if you end up being the last survivor the hatch could still spawn right at the feet of the killer and then you die. There definitely needs to be an alternative way to escape for survivors and the current hatch system isn't it.
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It shouldn't be possible for the killer to eliminate a survivor within the first 2 minutes of the match who is actively trying to avoid the killer. This game needs a foundational change to its playstyle and objectives. If you can't even stay in the match long enough to at least safety pip (which shouldn't be a thing) then there really is no point in even playing. And this isn't a skill issue by the way. Its a gameplay and RNG issue. You can't do anything to stop many killers from focusing you down on maps like the farm where most of the terrain is just open.
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Yea hillbilly is not fun to play against now. Its just endless power spam. I think I've seen a hillbilly use their basic attack maybe 3 times since the changes.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644981#Comment_3644981
Because of his colors or because he can hide his red stain?
Both. Ghostface and Myers are pretty spooky in this mode.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644977#Comment_3644977
It kinda bogs my mind why ppl would pick a stealth killer like GF in a gamemode where EVERYONE has no TR. At that point, why not just play Bubba?
Its because he blends in well with the darkness effect. I hardly ever saw him coming every time.
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Ghostface and Legion. Ghostface was pretty fun to play against. Legion on the other hand is Legion. He's never fun to play against.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643069#Comment_3643069
If you want any sympathy, post an unedited entire match where a killer does this so we can see why.
They quit in a time of DBD where anti camp and unhook protections weren't even a thing. It was a lot easier in those times for killers to abuse camping and tunneling. Even as a SWF team we were only able to deal with these situations effectively maybe half the time. I've tried to convince them several times to come back. Even with all of the changes since then, they're still not interested. Keep in mind these are people who played DBD from the very beginning.
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When changes are made to a game people like that doesn't sit well with them it usually causes a reaction, and it should. If people didn't say anything about their experience with the game we'd still be dealing with 1 hook moris, no unhook protections and no anti camp system. Its great we have a place where we can give this kind of feedback on the game where the devs can see it and make considerations.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642448#Comment_3642448
When are they gonna solve SWF getting 87 perks for free? Also killers don't do this to be toxic. I bet $20 you are running boil over and your teammates have flashlights, and then you wonder why you get slugged.
All my friends quit DBD over a year ago because they were sick of toxic killers ruining the game for them. I've been playing solo since then. And no, I don't run boil over anymore and rarely use flashlights. Boil over rarely gives any return without the help of breakout from another player. Flashlights are mostly only effective if you time it when the killer picks someone up. Most killers just simply look up to avoid them.
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Its a hard nerf to survivor. Every single killer I go against now is using some kind of gen regression perk, often times more than 1, which basically just makes the new system even worse for survivors. It takes so long for survivors to recover from altruistic demanding situations and now we have to stay on gens for a few seconds after they are kicked to stop the regression. Whats next? 5 seconds to unhook survivors?
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So I dont see a problem with slugging in general, you say you dont either, but you clearly do because you want killers to be forced to immediately pick up.
Quote me where I said this. I'm not going to continue a conversation with you if you're going to blatantly mispresent what I am saying. I have said excessive slugging is the problem. I also said that a minute and somewhere between 30 seconds to a minute is a fair time to leave a survivor on the ground. Beyond that the killer should be punished for it. That isn't forcing killers to pick survivors up right away.
As far as playing killer goes, I have no interest other than to sometimes go for the bonus BPs you get at every rank reset. I'll play a level 1 Myers with only 1 perk (brutal strength) so I can break pallets and kick gens faster. I'm currently at bronze 2 and going to see how far I can go with no addons, offerings and 3 empty perk slots. I also usually stay in tier 1 evil within so I don't even take advantage of his instant down power. I'm going to try for Red 1 rank like this and if I get there I don't ever want to hear anything about how hard it is to play killer.
because you arent just dealing with just 4 perks you are dealing with 16 perks
And yet I have screenshot after screenshot showing killers slugging my entire team going up against 16 perks. There is no big picture I'm not seeing here. I am speaking from experience. 3056 hours of experience playing survivor. All of the things you mentioned aren't as big of a problem to killers as you think they are. The RNG in this game seems to always play more in favor to the killer than survivors.
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I don't like when killers slug for a 4k, but I would not say to remove the ability to slug, thats absurd, because its a bandaid on a bigger problem that will cause more problems and frustrations for killers.
I never said to remove the ability to slug. I have made clear excessive slugging is the issue. There is no situation before the end game collapse that a killer should leave a survivor on the ground for more than a minute at most. I said incentivizing hooks more is how to deal with this problem. How do you do that? Well if killers knew that if they left a survivor on the ground for too long it would not go well for them then they would probably choose to hook them before that happens. If killers knew that a survivor could pick themselves up after so long I guarantee you they won't leave them on the ground. No Mither is a great example of this. Most killers who see a survivor using no mither will ever leave them on the ground for more than a few seconds. Why? Because they know that survivor will pick themselves up. This is not hard to solve.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642565#Comment_3642565
If they were going to remove slugging, it would’ve happened by now.
Not every survivor has to carry a load out for slugging, you only need one perk for that.
I still stand by what I say, if all survivors are on the ground, you should all be dead if there are no perks to help you get up or anything else by any means.
My main issue with your statements is you’re saying it’s “toxic” and the killer should be severely punished”
Not many people agree with you respectfully as you can see.
This thread is not a viable source of data for the overall opinion of slugging.
Neither is this thread I made last year which has 250 comments.
@KateMain86 said:
Its one thing to leave a survivor on the ground for a moment while you engage another one you saw nearby, but when you leave the last 2 survivors on the ground for an entire bleedout knowing there is absolutely nothing they can do about it then that is when slugging becomes a problem. This pic below was taken after me (Kate) and Mikaela crawled across the map hoping they'd hook us so the match would end. Mikaela eventually made it to me and the killer decided to stand there and wait for us both to bleed out. This is why we need basekit abilities to deal with these situations. If nothing exists to deter and discourage killer players from doing this, they will keep doing it. The killer has no strategic advantage at this point. They already won, so the intent is clear. They only do this to be toxic.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/041HUABCPK6G/20230512222243-1.jpg
But to disregard this as a non issue is clearly not reflective of one of the more common talked about subjects of the game. The reason why I say slugging is toxic is because its a playstyle that reflects the same sentiment people felt about other problems that have received changes by the devs which many people also considered toxic. Face camping was considered toxic by survivor mains, so they did something about it. Tunneling was considered toxic too, and they did something about it. It took years for them to implement these changes and I believe in time if slugging is considered to be detrimental to the survivor experience in the game something will be done about it. This is why player feedback is important. I think if they did an in game survey that asked players if they think slugging is fair and whether or not something should be done about it I really do think the majority would agree that its not fair.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642484#Comment_3642484
Agreed but she only wants to punish the killer. If it’s not a nerf on trickster, she wants to nerf Billy, if it’s not Billy, slugging for the 4K is toxic and should be an extremely punishable offense. She’s constantly blaming killers left and right on threads without looking at the big picture from everyone that is trying to be helpful in the feedback.
Killer shouldn’t be punished as you said and many others said. A surrender option or if nobody has the means to pick themselves up by any means than the timer could be ignored and all survivors die?
This is not a universal issue amongst all killers in the game. Most killers are actually quite reasonable to deal with. Its mostly the anti pallet and instant down killers I take issue with. As far as slugging goes, some killers can do this a lot easier than others but the outcome is still the same for the survivors. Wanting the match to continue when a killer decides to leave survivors on the ground for entire bleed outs is not an unreasonable opinion.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642479#Comment_3642479
The anti face camp is actually what it is. Hence survivors getting more and more basekit features added to the game.
The developers have stated over and over the Slugging isn’t toxic and that it’s part is the game. It’s a non reportable offense as it should be.
There’s more than one way to pip up and not every killer slugs every single trail of their game.
Also it is an argument because there are various counters to this and none of which you are willing to apply. Not the killers fault.
If all survivors are down and nobody has a perk to help them get up, then all survivors should be dead. 💀End of story.
There are not various counters to this. You're wanting every survivor to be forced into a loadout forever to deal with something that shouldn't be happening in the first place. What is the point of perks if were forced to use a specific loadout to deal with something that might not happen? This is why I say many survivor perks should be basekit.
The developers have stated over and over the Slugging isn’t toxic and that it’s part is the game.
They also allowed 1 hook moris, no unhook protections and no anti camp mechanic to be in the game for years before making changes to those things. They can say whatever they want. What matters is the player experience and feedback regarding things in the game. If enough players say something is not right in the game and they make changes to accommodate those things then their opinion on the issue didn't matter.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642446#Comment_3642446
This could be fixed with Surrender option, no need to punish killer. You can ask for that instead...
There are actions survivors can do, where slugging is only counterplay, so it doesn't make sense to punish it in any way.
I would prefer the killer be punished for playing like this, not rewarded. A surrender option would make since in certain situations such as 2 elimations with 3+ gens left and the situation seems heavily in favor of the killer. Other than that, no I don't support a surrender option for killers who choose to play this way.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642457#Comment_3642457
Why throw that line in your reply to me though? My post your replied to didn't even mention my stance.
"How anyone can be sympathetic towards killers in the situations shown in my screenshots above or the idea of excessive slugging is beyond me."
I don't see an issue with slugging as a concept. If bHVR really wants to remove it they could do something such as instead of downing the survivor they are instantly picked up (of course this could cause other issues).
Now, your pictures seem to indicate a killer going in an just slugging (especially the 1st and last). I don't think they should be able to just go in slug everyone and let them bleed out. You won't see me defending that but I also know pictures don't always tell the whole story. I've had times when I'm just trying to hook a survivor and the rest will swarm me. I will slug if necessary to make a point of saying "back off". I'll then pick one up and let them wiggle off so they can pick the rest up.
It's not about bias. It's I play both sides (more survivor) and I can see how something would be unfair to the other side.
I did say probably. So if you don't do this then great, you're not part of the problem. Its still a problem.
Slugging feels unnatural to the flow of the game if its done excessively. I can understand downing a survivor then running after another one who was nearby or may be trying to make a flashlight save. However to leave 1 or even multiple survivors on the ground for long periods of time is completely toxic and ruins the survivor experience. I don't mind being left down for a little while, but to just blatantly do it because you can gives an unfair advantage to the killer. Remember that its the survivors who lose control when they are downed. Killers cannot be stopped. They can only be slightly delayed with stuns, loops and blinds.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642446#Comment_3642446
I don’t feel bad. If this keeps happening to you why aren’t you changing your loadout to help prevent this? Why aren’t we thinking “ how could I have played this better?”
Instead of the killer needs to be severely punished for this it’s toxic… makes 0 sense.
It’s literally part of the game, it’s not toxic. The developers are never gonna go through with punishing killers for this. If you don’t want to be slugged, then try some different strategies or perhaps take a break from Dead by Daylight, you know what you’re walking into when you load this game up.
This is a non argument. "Just play better" is not the solution to this. As I said, there is a reason we have gotten unhook protections, 2 hook mori requirements and the anti camp mechanic. These are all the result of long term toxic playstyles that many killers did that was literally ruining the game for survivors. Why didn't the devs accept "just play better" to the other changes? Because they finally saw the problem and determined something needed to be done about it. This is a problem and it needs to be dealt with. It needs a deterrent which can be as simple as survivors being able to pick themselves up after about 30 seconds. If the killer realizes that leaving survivors on the ground for prolonged periods of time is preventing them from getting hooks and eliminations then they will focus more on the hook objectives than slugging. Also doesn't slugging play against the pip system for killers? Clearly that isn't enough to deter this. Besides that, if they know they aren't being rewarded with ranking up then it just further adds to the argument that they do this to be toxic.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642388#Comment_3642388
"People who defend slugging are probably players who do it, so the bias in their argument is made clear."
I know you made that vague but I hope that's not an indirect way of pointing at me considering 99% of my killer games these days I hook everyone twice (if I can) and let them escape.
The point was that there is a bias in the argument to defending slugging. I can't imagine why or how anyone could defend excessive slugging when without some kind of self recover perk you have no chance at recovering from the situation. How anyone can be sympathetic towards killers in the situations shown in my screenshots above or the idea of excessive slugging is beyond me.
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There is none. I feel like it was a perk designed without taking the survivor experience into consideration. It gives the killer way too much power and control. These kind of perks serve as an extra power for the killer basically. The game is bloated with perks and RNG at this point. Its really becoming a tiresome and boring experience.
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Slugging is the next big problem they should solve. Survivors should be able to pick themselves up after so long if they are slugged and without the use of a perk or help from a player. Killers do this to be toxic. They ignore their objective to make sure your survivor experience is terrible. This only stops when they put effective deterrents in the game.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642381#Comment_3642381
Likewise, slugging needs to be seen in the same light as being extremely bad to the survivor experience
Not really, game doesn't end for you when you are slugged.
There are killers, where slugging is basically mandatory, if you want to win. It's nothing like tunneling even in terms of effectiveness.
You just want your hatch, even tho you lost that game anyway.
This is not Ok no matter the situation. I want fairness in this game. Nothing about slugging is fair when you do it for this long.
And this is only a few of the screenshots I have of this happening to me and I think these are all in recent time too.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641954#Comment_3641954
Killers shouldn't win when they win got it
They should win when they 4k, not 2k or 3k. If that comes from leaving survivors on the ground for minutes then no they should not win. The weight of recovery for the situation for the non slugged survivor is too much. That is the biggest problem with the survivor experience overall. It takes too much time to recover from altruistic demanding situations.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642228#Comment_3642228
You just see the mentality of some people. Instead of writing "I agree, 4K requirements should be removed as to not encourage slugging for the 4K" you get that reply.
Its more so seeing and acknowledging the absolute ridiculous power and control difference of the situations and bringing that to light. This is no different as to why we received unhook protections, 2 hooks for mori and the new anti camp system. The fact that people are blatantly ignoring these things and don't see the same problem in this situation as well is more telling of their mentality of the issue than mine. People who defend slugging are probably players who do it, so the bias in their argument is made clear.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641955#Comment_3641955
That's like saying survivor challenges for escapes should be void if killer has less than 4 hooks to deter gen rushing... It doesn't make any sense.
Not even close. You're comparing a situation where survivors are literally unable to continue their objectives to a situation where the killer can still continue theirs. Survivors have nothing on the same level of control as killers have when they leave survivors on the ground. Killers should be punished severely for leaving survivors on the ground. Similar to how they are now punished for camping survivors, why can't we have the same thing for slugged survivors? If you're left on the ground for more than a few seconds you get a progress bar start filling that recovers you from the dying state after so long. And no the killer would not be required to be close to you for this to happen. Killers are toxic because they are allowed to be without being punished for it. Why do you think we got the unhook protections now? I don't know how long you've been playing DBD but I remember a time where tunneling was to be expected and the norm for every match. Survivors had no protections off the hook. Killers could down you the very moment you were pulled off the hook. Being eliminated faster than it took for you to find a match was not fun, so they made changes to help deal with it. Its not enough by any means, but its a start. Likewise, slugging needs to be seen in the same light as being extremely bad to the survivor experience, which it is.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641922#Comment_3641922
Then remake every challenge, or achievement that requires 4k. I am not going to risk losing an adept just to spare survivor's feelings.
You're right. I think the challenges and achievements should be void if you refuse to hook a survivor for more than 30 seconds. Like I said, they need to incentivize hooks and deter slugging.
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@bjorksnas said:
I mean at the end of the day its the killers choice to slug for the 4k or to give hatch or to really do anything, they got the match to that point so they get to choose what they do. If not slugging for the 4k was more consistent then maybe most wouldn't.
Heres how a slug for the 4k goes
3rd person gets slugged, ~50/50 depending on perks and killer if they can find the 4th survivor
Without it
hatch ~50/50
exit gates ~50/50 depending on how they spawn
You basically decide to flip coins on if you get a 4k or not or take a near guaranteed victory since even if you fail to find the survivor you still get those 50/50s after
its just the better option you can't complain that people want to win
Killers are winning with basically only having to get 3k. That is in no way fair to survivors. You don't realize how hard it is for survivors to recover from most situations in this game. It takes too much time to give you any fair chance to recover in a viable way. You're basically saying killers deserve to win for eliminating 2 survivors and downing the third. They shouldn't gain that much of an advantage over the match for playing in what many survivors consider to be extremely toxic. This game rewards killer mains far too much for playing in the most toxic ways. They should be incentivized to hook survivors and deterred from slugging them.
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@mikewelk said:
"Survivors are too heavily reliant on perks to deal with the worst killer playstyles in this game." This is really true. Why do we have to run trashy anti-tunnel perks that don't work at all, when the killer knows what they are doing, to counter the most mind-numbing experience the game could possibly offer?
With regards to slugging for the 4k, if the killer has Ultimate Weapon then 9/10 times they'll do it because it's basically guaranteed unless the survivor hides in the locker, then they'll just let the slugged person bleed out whilst you cannot do anything about it. I think a bleed out at 25-50% progress left feature would be the best option here because it wouldn't punish the killer too much and it would prevent four minutes of time wasting whilst they set up an ambush.
Killer players who slug, especially for the 4k at the end, should be so punished that it deters the behavior entirely. They shouldn't see any value in it. It should be absolutely detrimental to their ability to win.
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I watched a streamer play a demo of it last night for a little while. The game looks really good visually. It looks like Behavior is publishing the game and it was developed by Lunarch Studios. I'll need to see more gameplay to see if I may be interested in it.
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Yep. Pretty much what the OP said. The game needs to be remade from the ground up. I feel like killers are being designed and reworked to deal with SWF rather than be balanced around solo and casual players. Pallets have become mostly worthless considering how many killers can hit you over them or vault over them. The survivor experience is largely RNG given how we can't even see the perks of our team let alone anything from the killer. So many perks should have long been built into the basekit of survivors by now. Healing takes way too long even with perks and items. The amount of time it takes for survivors to recover from a hook situation takes too long. The biggest problem I think is how limited in movement survivors are. There really is no dodging in this game. Its just run until you die in most situations. We don't need more perks or items. We need DBD 2 with an entirely new experience.
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Yep. Probably going to drop the game for a long while and hope its in a better place sometime in the future. Most matches are just miserable and not fun for me.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640528#Comment_3640528
The chainsaw being everywhere was always the whole part about Billy... What do you even mean?
I used to be chased by hillbilly using his M1. He would usually use his chainsaw for map traversal or in open spaces without pallets or loops. Now people use his chainsaw all the time. Its actually become rare for him to use his M1 over the chainsaw. Now its map traversal and his main attack against survivors in most situations. It also just so happens to be an instant down. The last thing survivors needed or wanted was another instant down killer getting big buffs.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
So just because some spesific group used some colours, now we can't use them? What is this post? Nea's costume is looking pretty normal, you are just trying to see problem here even there is not any problem.
Yep and its downright selfish too. They would rather take a cosmetic appearance away from thousands of other players so they can feel comfortable using a skin for themselves.
If the devs ever come across this thread please don't think you have any moral obligation to change anything.