Kalinikta
Kalinikta
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- Kalinikta
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Funny the person complaining about not winning is telling others to not care about winning... the irony.
Doubt I am at high MMR, yet if you don't play the game as it is supposed to be played as a killer by being merciless the survivors will walk all over you. Just face it Sluzzy, you are just not that good of a survivor... the hatch mechanic, if you rely on that mechanic to get escapes is very telling. If you get tunneled out of the game at the start, your team isn't doing a good job of protecting each other and that is why high MMR is difficult.
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Mmmhhhh... or try and play the game, people like you is what makes solo queue so rough.
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@melodyabusa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2591481#Comment_2591481
What section did I post my topic in?
Doesn't change who I posted it for it is still for the game developers.
I still don't care about your opinion and agree to disagree.
What section did you post your topic in? The Dead By Daylight Community Forums, feedback and guess what you received... the feedback from the community! This is not your personal messaging board to the developers this is a public space and you claim to not wanting to invalidate the feelings or experiences of others, yet that is exactly what you do when you tell people when you tell them "I still don't care about your opinion".
Numbers do not care about how we feel, you can feel how you feel that doesn't make a 200%, 300% or 400% healing speed buff objectively viable due to the math involved. It literally has nothing to do with your feelings or experience, it has to do with the design and mathematics involved, while considering both sides.
A 200% healing speed buff to self heal in 8 seconds is OP, a 300% or 400% heal speed is even more ridiculous... not because it doesn't feel nice for the person using it, but because it is not balanced and destroys any momentum the killer has.
Removing a perk from the opponent in the same time effect as applying your own, is objectively unfair and unbalanced. Not because it isn't a haha feeling of sticking it to the killer, but you have to consider the killers point of view.
You can feel like you want, you can complain and cry all you want... but if you are unable to be objective about the game there is no reason that the developers will ever take anything you say seriously. Multiple people have explained to you why they changed what they did and the developers unlike what you believe... actually do want to create a game balance for all to enjoy, not just your selfish entitled survivor only viewpoint.
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Now that we had a nice story of your stance on what Behaviour is lets have a look at what they say about themselves?
Our Story
Founded in 1992, Behaviour Interactive is Canada’s largest independent game developer and publisher. The company boasts more than 850 employees at its studio in Montreal, Canada. In 2021, its most successful IP, the award-winning Dead by Daylight, surpassed 36 million players on all platforms.
Our successful development history includes multiple partnerships alongside the entertainment industries’ finest brand owners, and creators.
Our Difference
We have built our reputation on rigorously developing unique games and transforming the world’s most renowned intellectual properties into interactive experiences that are designed to engage audiences across every platform.
Montreal-based Behaviour Interactive is one of North America’s largest independent game developers with over 70 million games sold. Find out more.CREATIVE IN OUR IDEAS YET DISCIPLINED IN OUR EXECUTION
We are in the innovation business. We strongly believe in trying new tech, methods, and ideas. It’s the result that counts, not how we get there.
PUSHING OUR LIMITS AND LEARNING FROM OUR MISTAKES
We boldly venture into new platforms or audiences, learning along the way, as we fix and ship.
DESIGN-FOCUSED
Our seasoned teams have proven expertise in all aspects of design required by today’s evolving market, including traditional gameplay, systems design, game economics, user experience, social mechanics, and data-driven live operations.
Our games are prototyped and fully playable before they reach the pre-production phase … Creating hundreds of experiences across all genres and platforms has enabled us to mold our design teams into effective and efficient creative powerhouses.
TECHNICALLY ADEPT
Our engineers are skilled technical veterans who have worked with every technology available, including our partners’ proprietary tools and engines. We are experts in Unity and Unreal, having developed, ported, and remastered numerous titles on these engines.
We have also created our proprietary backend technology, which is currently live on multiple games and many platforms, supporting millions of players worldwide.
DATA-DRIVEN
Behaviour has outpaced the competition and created its internal Live Operations group consisting of product managers, data analysts, customer support specialists, and community managers.
Our teams utilise a wide range of technologies; always learning and adapting processes to be as efficient and data-driven as possible. These Live Operations teams are integrated early in production to drive the business strategy from soft launch onward, focusing on emergent trends and marketplace success through Key Performance Indicator optimization.
So, lets be real... Behaviour is not a small company and even by industry standards are considered large at this point in time, they are supposed to be held to a high standard and it is something they themselves state that they do. Do not create a picture that the bodies that govern the company and the developers are somehow two separate entities, they are one company and they are all responsible for what is delivered. Being critical of what they deliver is perfectly reasonable and the correct thing to do, they set their own time lines and their own expectations. While I might not agree with some of the negative backlash they receive, but it doesn't mean that we should throw all sense of standards out of the windows.
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@melodyabusa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590308#Comment_2590308
Agree to disagree. I don't care about your stance or idea so post it in the feedback forum which is what this is for. My feelings my experience, your feelings your experience. Honestly feedback for the devs not for you or towards you.
If you do not care about the stance of other members of the community, then you clearly do not understand the function of a public forum. You are opening up a "Discussion" in the community... your claims this isn't for us all clearly is false. This isn't a private board to talk to the developers.
There were glaring issues with 200, 300, 400% healing speeds and if you are unable to see that from an objective point of view. Same goes for the increased time of blessing hexes, it adds decision making game play to the survivor and time efficiency where you create a loss for your opponents perk while getting the benefit or yours.
This isn't about your feelings or experience, it is about game balance, facts and simple mathematics!
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The most recent experience I had of an actual bully squad:
- 2 Survivors with Flashlights and Head on
- Spam the lockers to get my attention (2 next to each other)
- One of their friends had No-Mither on for some reason
If you tried to grab them: the other would pop out and flash light save.
If you stood near it; they would come out and head on stun you and hop back in.
How I handled it;
- Played along, waiting for a mistake on their end as they almost always do.
- The moment I got one down, stood above him, looked down and guess what survivor 3 showed up.
- Hit the 3rd survivor and managed to down the first of the initial 2.
- Pretty much just slugged them and camped their bodies, the guy with no mither showed up smacked him and hooked him asap.
- Slapped down the guy that got picked up.
- Got an injure on the 4th.
- Had to deal with an unbreaking so 1 on hook, 1 on floor
- Landed a nice shot (playing deathslinger) and got the 3rd down.
- Chased the other guy and down him.
Then I let them bleed to death, I normally never do... but these guys pretty much had it coming and the audacity to complain afterwards, if you want to BM and go out of your way with builds and such to make the opponents life as miserable as possible you should expect the same in return.
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Overriding a perk of the killer now takes additional time, because you are not just blessing but taking away. The time to bless a dull totem is identical. There was no choice blessing and cleansing a hex totem shouldn't be the same, if you disagree you are clearly biased.
The overlap was OP, it is when the circles intersect meaning that multiple totems from other survivors would stack... the effect itself of CoH is a flat 100% buff, but nooo... you want it to be 400% because 2 second heals sounds anywhere remotely fine. The multiple perks still apply to the same totem.
Go play killer, actually leave like the lowest of the low MMR. The boon perks are still powerful, if you actually understood the game from both perspectives you would notice that. If you have to rely on the hatch... you aren't really that good.
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If you are dying at 5 gens, that means your team literally is actively avoiding doing gens...
Ofcourse Killers are trying to get a 3/4k as that is their objective.
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The killer won't be scary just by graphical design, you will tea bag them at pallets just the same as Legion.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Base regression is to small right now.25 charges per second VS. 1.0 for a single Survivor progression
If the Devs bumped up base regression to .50 then no one would be "forced" to run regression perks
@Kalinikta You forgot Dying Light, Eruption, Huntress Lullaby and Overcharge... Also Gen Highlighting perks like Discordance and Surveillance... But to your point there are so many Perks but only 2 are being used most of the time I wonder why
Also Gen Regression is different from Gen Stalling (that's what I'm going to call it)
The reason you see Pop and Ruin mainly is because they give solid regression and base regression is simply bad. Oppression has a way to long cool down, Eruption mainly needs setup of kicking gens and as established... kicking gens is quite bad baseline, Surge is location based and sees some play, Thana is useful for killers that can keep survivors damaged and Dying light is more of a trade off between the other survivors and the obsession.
Huntress Lullaby, Overcharge aren't regression but more hinderance that affect lower / newer survivors and relies on survivors missing skill checks?
Thrilling, Dead Lock and Corrupt Intervention are anti-momentum perks, they don't regress it but do buy you time.
Discordance and Surveillance are information perks, same for Tinkerer though it has some side utility.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2580289#Comment_2580289
That is most definitely not how the game is designed and nor is how it has been played for at least 3 years. The concept of gen regression perks didn't even exist before Hag's release and honestly once the concept of gen regression perks came into the game it quickly became a band aid over a larger issue. The gameplay has become very optimized and very stagnant which means what used to naturally take 10+mins can now be done by a majority of players in half the time or less. They're aware of the pace in which games can be driven these days and seem to feel it can be dealt with through perks, but then turn around and nerf those perks drastically limiting their effectiveness.
While it would be nice to play more variable builds, it simply isn't an option if you want to maximize your bp gain and play a semi normal length game. The killers who can get by without gen regression are few and far between.
Regardless of what you claim; Perks are part of the games design. The fact that it used to take 10+ mins naturally, but is now 5 means that was always the case just that people weren't that good yet. Unless something drastic changed to how gens work and regression, the reality is simply that 10+ min games aren't the pacing of the game.
The design choice was made to have a regression perk into people builds, just like exhaustion perks are now a staple in any survivor build. It might have started with Hag, but we have Pop, Surge, Oppressions, Ruin, Thana all to slow down gen progression and gen locking like Corrupt Intervention, Thrilling Tremors, Dead Lock to help with the momentum as well - though alternatively you can go for instant downs, sloppy, etc for momentum alternatives. However you want to view it the games design is about having perks in each category, the regression ones were nerfed because people stack them and still do. The game is designed for you to spend a slot on the different categories or supplement them based on perceived weaknesses.
I do not disagree that it would be nice if more variable builds that seem somewhat equally viable; yet there is some space here for variety if you seek and have the skill (I personally am not that good yet). I also do not disagree that the base regression mechanic is pretty much useless; kicking gens is simply not worth it 99% of the time unless you have a perk active.
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Perks are part of the design, just as survivors run exhaustion perks and BT.
The game is pretty much built with the idea that you being: 1 information perk, 1 momentum perk, 1 regression perk, 1 chase perk. Sure you can swap parts out and adapt it to suit your own abilities better.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575402#Comment_2575402
And what they did to us why I could not did this to them ?
You are literally crying about how they treated you, but feel justified to treat other people in a similar manner.
Imagine... the entitlement and childish behavior. You are not doing it to the people that acted that way, you are doing it to others.
Where did I treat you that way, yet you feel justified to treat me as such... did I start it or did you at that point. Grow up!
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2574812#Comment_2574812
They started first !
How does the justification that someone did something first means you can now do it to others?
You made the initial post here and by lashing out to everyone that might have a different idea than you... you are no better than those that did it to you. In this conversation, you started first!
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573949#Comment_2573949
There are a lot of people in the forum who said if we dont boycott we are for NFT and terrible person.
So before saying to me to let people make their decisions, told the people who boycott to not blame people like me who just want to enjoy the game.
Im not for NFT.
Isn't that a bit of a hypothetical argument though, you made a post calling them woke, told them to show unquestioning support for the game and all that. You are part of those lot of people that bash others for not being on your side.
Yet now I have to feel sorry for you that others treated you in the same way?
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@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573694#Comment_2573694
Pffttt the killer knows where the gens are. I never said survivors weren't toxic, but clicking and crouching too much aren't stopping you or me from being a killer. Hook facing and slugging on the other hand does and makes zero sense for a game based on chase. It should be penalized again like the vaulters and people who ger crows over their head like the abuse of game it is.
A survivor is at some point supposed to be on a hook or put in the dying state. You are still a survivor, it is still part of their game play cycle.
If everything is purely about the chase, gens make no sense either or stealth play. You now just are making things up and wanting to determine what the game is about. There are multiple ways to play the game, there isn't just one. You are salty entitled because people don't play as you want them to play.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573906#Comment_2573906
I support the game and the content and the very talented devs.
That is a decision for all to make on their own.
You calling people to not do it, dictate that they have no reason for it, they are woke and demand their unquestioning support for BHVR... is the ludicrous part.
There are most definitely reasons to be against this development within the company. If this isn't a deal breaker for you or completely irrelevant continue your patronage. Yet it goes both ways, those that are against it can most definitely raise there voice and zip their wallet.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573797#Comment_2573797
I totally get your point. The thing is dbd isnt selling NFT at all. I dont get how Steam could ban dbd. And Behaviour is not stupid they know Steam rules.
They are not selling anything related to NFT.
However I hope everyone is enjoying the new update :)
They helped develop them base on cosmetics, it can grant access to content within the game namely the chapter. It is an endorsement and attachment of their name, game and it are their assets made into NFTs.
This is a new area of the industry and Steam is adamant about their position. They can simply view it as a loophole, you own NFT X and now gain access to content Y. By proxy the NFT now is a means to gain access to content and that could be enough for Steam. In the end it will be Steam that makes that determination, not BHVR. It is also a gateway for them to continue adding it to deals and threading a line.
They are associated with the practices of NFT, as they literally helped their development. The tech has some solid areas where it can serve a purpose, but the ones BHVR helped develop is not one of them. They used resources to develop this, this is what they paid people to make. There is most definitely a financial incentive here to do so, but is it something you as a consumer want to support?
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Hhhmm wanting 1v1 the killer and use 0 resources?
The art of looping is about how long can you last before you have to drop the pallet and how long you last before going down...
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@SabunoHakia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573694#Comment_2573694
Toxic survivors are real, flashlights abuse, gen rushing pallets reset to be reslammed constant teabagging who is to hlame? Both. Started with survivors and killers adapted to make ends meat.
Survivors can clicky click their flashlights all they want at me or do gens as fast as they can, they can teabag at a pallet if they want. Like literally nothing really toxic about it, though I really dislike those that macro the clicks as that sound is just horrid.
I don't know what you point is here exactly or why you are quoting me. I have no issues, if people want to use tactics, mechanics and abide by the rules... it is fair game. Do your best, try and win by any tactic you want.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573651#Comment_2573651
I think you dramatise the situation. Dbd will not be removed from Steam they dont violate the rules at all.
I think there is other ways than boycotting to be heard.
They are placing themselves at risk, you might want to read the guidelines of steam and their latest update:
Applications built on blockchain technology that issue or allow exchange of cryptocurrencies or NFTs.
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/onboardingThe fact that the NFT is a model within the game and it might grant you access to the corresponding chapter, it means that they most definitely seeking a line here... is that a guaranteed boot off the platform, no... as that is for Steam to decide. However, it is a slippery slope that actually places the players that have the game on Steam like myself at risk, to no longer have access to it and BHVR having to think of alternatives; which would cost them substantial amount of money and the requirement that we swap platforms, which historically isn't something many people are going to be very happy about. That is just reality, Steam is taking a hard stance here and they might want to plug loop holes and set an example of zero tolerance.
There are other ways to be heard, but the choice to get into the NFT is one motivated by money. It might have been part of the deal they struck or something, but it for sure is based on money. One of the oldest ways to cast your vote in a meaningful way is by having your wallet do the talking! Actions speak louder than words, people do more than just one to be heard; look at the forums, social media, youtube content creators, etc. It is not a question of exclusivity, you can actually do multiple actions at once to be heard and combining multiple is truly a lot stronger than just the one.
Supporting a company or not based on their policies, decisions and the risks. It isn't woke, the use of NFTs is more than just environmentally impactful. It actually puts the game I own in my steam library at risk, literally for a money grab and introducing perceived value items for real money (meaning this doesn't even have a set value) into a game... which is not really what I want to see in games I play to be completely honest. There are better ways to monetize, that isn't pretty much exclusive to the rich.
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@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567514#Comment_2567514
They can't more often thab not and it still hijacks a game for one or more people who are actually trying to play iy. Unhooking is apart of the game. Chasing is apart of the game. Killing is apart of the game. Standing there staring is no and should be penalized as the abuse it is.
Survivors can't hold still for too long eiher on that note lol
Penalize facers and sluggers who do only that the whole game.
You cannot sit in one spot for extended periods of time? Euhm... ever done a gen? 80 seconds of sitting still.
Like I literally just got out of a game where the killer got someone into the basement at 4 gens, camped the basement and snowballed that into a 4k. I helped one other member to get the unhook before they died, I traded and was now hanging on the hook... my team healed and reset, then messed up horribly... but it happens.
Just because you do not like the tactic doesn't mean it isn't valid.
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Since when did it become woke to vote with your wallet?
Just because not everyone in the company is responsible the heads and people in control did make the decision to get involved with NFT's.
@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2571553#Comment_2571553
Boycotting = massive fired of employees.
Im not that person sorry, Im here for workers.
You might want to look up the word btw. Trying to avoid the firing of employees, indicates that you are aware of the social impact that no longer supporting a game can have. Instead of looking at the choices made by the company and the implications of those decisions to make a determination whether or not you want to support it.
NFT's even without the association with the environmental impact, it binds game assets to perceived value of assets within it and real money. It is a pure money grab and has many scams associated with it. Additionally the flat out removal of games that are associated with it on Steam, puts the game at risk for many players... if you think some people voting with their wallet against the choices the company makes is anywhere near as impactful as being removed from the leading game platform on the PC market!
Care about the workers? Maybe tell the higher management of BHVR that going for short term gains over longevity, give the gamers the best experience possible without risking the game on one of their major platforms? If BHVR goes belly up, needs to downscale... it is because of the decisions they made and the product they delivered.
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@Voodoo101 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567117#Comment_2567117
This plan only works if you queue as a team, not for the solo player. The lack of voice communication takes the team play away. Your team will play the way each individual plays. As a team you can coordinate efforts, do gens, heal, make saves and run the killer. As a solo player you do what you think is best at the time. You don't have the benefits of knowing the killer is camping till you go for the save. If you are the person on the hook, you may want your team to do gens, but they don't know that. You may hope that somebody in your team has dead hard, but with 4 perks slots per survivor, you can't all run that just in case.
There are only two reasons for a killer to camp the hook, the first is because the killer is so bad, they cannot chase in which case then they should practice, or because they want to be toxic. This behaviour is the same playing a shooting game with aimbot. All other games ban people from this play, DBD doesn't even have a penalty, in fact the penalty goes to the survivors who don't want to play this type of game and disconnects.
There is no need to camp. I have just started playing killer and on most games I get over 50,000 bloodpoints, upto 100,000. Even getting a few hooks and all four survivors escaping, I get over 50,000 bloodpoints. Proxy camping if fine, sometimes you get to the hook in time, sometimes you don't, but standing by the hook or hiding right next to it is stupid. I even think it is bad when you have trapper, hag or pyramid head putting traps around the hook, but at least that gives you fair game to escape.
I'm not saying that the killer should let the survivors win, just as I don't play racing games and wait at the finish to let the driver behind pass me and win, but I don't cheat in the game and take a short cut that no other driver can take, just to say I won.
I will highly surprised if BeHaviour even reads this post let alone take any action to change the game, after all their are posts and posts of players complaining about this, yet nothing gets done, but it was worth the try.
Solos are still part of a team.
Camping, tunneling, slugging... is not cheating nor toxic.
If you believe survivors won't abuse a system and make sure your proxy camp is punished, you bet ya...
You just started playing killer, just wait till you meet the survivors that know what they are doing. Ooh and guess what, mindlessly camping these guys usually isn't that fruitful either.
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@Voodoo101 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568672#Comment_2568672
I think people dont mind killers who camp the area, it is the ones that camp the hook. If you camp the area then their is an opportunity of the survivors saving. With killers who just stand by the hook, these are the ones that need to be punished.
Yet nobody is able to provide a single manner in which proxy camping or end game camping isn't punished and those mechanics are abused by survivors in order to punish this specific case... which is already able to be punished by the survivors if they do gens, make tactical hook trade and all that.
They all want blanket fixes that punishes all killers and they are to be given free unhooks. Them bombing hooks, hovering around the hook or any tactical decision making around it are all to be thrown out of the window... because survivors are entitled and need a free shift in the power dynamic more into their favor.
Before commenting .... maybe read the thread.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568305#Comment_2568305
Camping being a strategy that can favor the killer is subjective all the same. I asked if you would provide me some objective reasons for camping being a legitimate strategy.
That is simple:
- You have selected an area of the map you want to defend, get someone on a hook in it and camp that area.
- Using the person on the hook to lure in more people, so you can kill them. Do it in the end game for instance as the doors tend to be safe areas, having them on a hook pulls survivors back into the map.
- Use the person on the hook to lure in better players, because it can be used to get them out of position. Bank on their altruism and capitalize on it.
It is a legit strategy, because it can work and pan out. I think one of their devs one called it interesting and a high risk reward tactic. You are giving up a section of the map for immense pressure in a specific area. If it was not working out, if it isn't a valid strategy... you wouldn't be complaining about it.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568137#Comment_2568137
Theres no shift in power needed 😄 camping should have been penalized from the get-go. Not sure why you're still talking about generators because I think we both agree they are irrelevant to camping.
Camping has a tremendously negative impact for many reasons. Survivors get nothing out of it, and killers never learn to play better. Camping is, by and large, a form of giving up the game in favor of one kill. Sometimes this tactic snowballs into two or more., but the principle is the same from match to match.
I'm also not dictating how a match should play as a survivor. I'm dictating how the game should play from a standpoint that positively impacts survivors and killers both. My best games playing killer are against survivors who are better than me, which in turn helps me learn to play against better and better survivors.
Camping gets nowhere until it does and then it becomes a serious problem. Overall there is ZERO objective reason for why camping is a valid strategy. I think first and foremost you should try to explain why camping is a valid tactic before we go any further.
There is no point talking to you, because you don't actually care about facts. Regardless of whether you believe it should always be punished or not is subjective. It is in the game and actually good killers will use it when the situation calls for it.
I proxied a guy to death just yesterday, had them hooked in the middle of a 3 gen. My best play was to stay there. Not run to the other side of the map where nothing is to pressure.
Ignoring the fact that camping, tunneling and slugging actually have a place in the game and contributes to the balance is naive and ignorant. It is a tactic just line any other if used properly is beneficial for the killer.
You only care about survivors idea of how the game should be played. It is so blatantly obvious. There are actual very clear objective reasons to why one should camp, end game, good positioning, a game plan made around it... because yes you can do that as well so blatant examples basement builds on trapper, hag, bubba.
The fact is simple you don't like that style of play, but it doesn't mean it is not legitimate. Maybe you should play it and see how good survivors dismantle it. So you can become better as survivor.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567561#Comment_2567561
Well I dont think progressing the game by doing generators even comes close to camping hooks. Like I said before, it is the killers job to stop survivors from working on generators and eventually kill them all before they can leave. My job as a survivor is to work on generators, not hunt for the killer immediately and hope he doesnt kill me first.
Camping should not be included as a valid strategy because of the effect it has on the match as a whole. The only person enjoying themselves in that scenario is the killer. It is a very negative aspect of the game that needs to be looked at and seriously reconsidered. Whether you like that or not is also irrelevant.
Actually how much progress you make on the generators is irrelevant to the killer actually as long as they can sacrifice you before the trial ends all is well.
The effect it has on the game as a whole? You mean that if played properly as a team of survivors they do the gens and can leave? The same effect as running the killer for 5 gens, just the person not having fun is the survivor instead of the killer.
How killers should play isn't for the survivors to dictate, because guess what... they are not interested in them having a fun time and they don't want to die. There is most definitely a need to camp at times in the game and if used carelessly can lose you the game.
You haven't brought forth any objective reason why it is invalid nor how you would be able to compensate for the shift in power if removed. Survivors are already the more powerful side, good teams can counter the tactic and therefore it doesn't warrant a blanket nerf. Consider the other side, actually go try... how exactly will you punish face camping without punishing most killers.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567746#Comment_2567746
The sticking point there is that if you're going in with the intent to try and win, that's not casual, that's you approaching the game on a competitive level. I absolutely empathise with not wanting to bring the same specific build over and over again, but neither MMR nor the concept of playing casually enter that problem at all- that's an overall balance issue with the game.
You miss the point, just because when people play a game and would want the chance to win it... doesn't mean that they are competitive.
Playing to lose isn't casual, it is masochistic. I play games for my enjoyment, I try to win... but that doesn't mean I go out of my way and use everything in my power to do so. I also make choices based on my playstyle and yes sometimes that ends up in me losing the game. Being casual means that you willingly and knowingly don't always make the most optimal play, because you are casual... it doesn't mean that you are trying to lose. It doesn't mean you go out into the game to be destroyed...
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When you play a game, even casually does not mean you simply throw up your hands at the start and go, now destroy me!
People confuse the idea of wanting to win, or at least have a chance of winning and not being completely demolished being mutually exclusive with being casual. Just because people want a match where even if they aren't being 100% efficient, with the best perks, items, addons, offerings, etc. Does not mean that they are wanting to have zero chance of winning. They might be fine with losing a match, but that doesn't mean that they want that to be the only possible out come.
It is a different type of game, it is how the match goes rather than just the outcome. Even if you are competitive, losing is part of a game and each person seeks to have a challenge at their own level. There are actually very little people that just always want to crush each and every single game, true competitive players seek worthy opponents that can give them a run for their money.
Most people simply want a chance to win, some in a more casual mindset and some with a more competitive one.
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2k is still a tie, the system aiming to get you to 2 kills and 2 escapes doesn't change that fact. Everyone loses at times, those times where you get a 1k or 0... averages are not the definition of a win.
Not that kills tell the whole story, a 2k with 2 hooks or 10... is a big difference.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567064#Comment_2567064
You don't really get to define what a hostage is with just the game's terms... a hostage is still a hostage, whether they are stuck bleeding out on the ground or stuck on a hook for 2-3 minutes and no good way to escape or even keep playing the game. That person is being held hostage and unable to play.
Damn those generators holding you hostage, sitting in one place, forced to hit skill checks and required to do that for 80 seconds straight... multiple times.
Being on the hook is actually part of the game play loop for survivors. Do the gens, run the killer, get downed and placed on the hook.
Regardless of how you want to twist the reality to suit your narrative, if the game progresses and that includes you slowly dying! You aren't being held hostage.
The goal of the killer is to sacrifice survivors to the entity, it is on the survivors to work together and prevent that.
Just because your opponents use tactics, means and actions you do not like does not mean that they are toxic, bad players or malicious. They are trying to win at a game, killers don't like all the tools, tactics and tricks that survivors do either.
Being run for 5 gens isn't fun for everyone else in the game either other than the single survivor doing it. It is preventing the killer from getting hooks, it gives them no good way to kill the survivors and denies them their game play loop. It forces the other survivors to sit on gens and not interact with the killer.... is that the killer playing badly, the survivor playing well or is the survivor now holding the game hostage and being toxic.
Slugging, tunneling, camping, proxying all have a spot in the killers toolset. Use them mindlessly and survivors will and can punish you. Those here complaining about it, are just like the killer being run for 5 gens.
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@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567101#Comment_2567101
"Sometimes"
"End game"
Yeah well keep arguing for those things when the problem is facing THE WHOLE GAME. Which is the problem you keep ignoring and it does stop gameplay. They should be penalized for it.
Survivors can penalize it, by doing gens going for trades before they go through hook stages and making the killer lose. Additionally they already take a penalty to BP gained and an emblem system.
Your response just showcases that you have no answer and just want free unhooks against any killer. Just because you don't like the hanging on hook game play, because yes... that is part of the survivors gameplay.
@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567101#Comment_2567101
They are and it's through a toxic type of gameplay that has no place in multiplayer games. Everyone should be allowed to play and whole game facers are breaking it so should be penalized for it.
It's happening so often I wasn't even the newest post on this. No one is mad they get killed, you said that. But facers being toxic and using the game rules to hold it hostage isn't playing plain and simple. Unskilled and makes for easy kills. It needs to be penalized like vaulters get because its abusing the game.
You are then just as toxic, denying the killer hooks at the start of the game. There is nothing toxic about it and you trivialize the word... because you don't like the tactic your opponent uses in the game. Just because people use tactics you don't like facing doesn't make them toxic.
You aren't being held hostage, as being on the hook is part of the game play and has a cap of 2 mins. Just because you don't like this part of the game doesn't make it not part of the gameplay loop. Dangling on the hook is part of being a survivor.
If they are unskilled, you can actually save your teammate, use BT learn to time it and get them off it. Just realize you don't need to save 1 second after they get unhooked. Then they can body block for you, get a sprint burst and you both should be able to get to a loop. Stop bombing the hook, stop tailing the killer and go do some gens... put pressure on the killer, then save, either land on the hook and have your team do the same. Play to win the game instead of whine about having to be on hook as a survivor.
You are mad that you are getting killed and that your opponents tactic is working out for them. You twist definitions and only care about your own perspective without any consideration of the facts. By your own accord these tactics are sometimes required... yet should not be possible, how hypocritical and entitled.
Being on hook is just as much gameplay as being on a gen, you are in one spot and hitting skill checks. You must hate your teammates when they can loop the killer for 5 gens, because you are denied to play the game and have to do that for 4 to 5 mins straight.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567117#Comment_2567117
hate to say it but its only a team vs the killer if your in SWF other wise its all individual Behavior stated such with there remarks on the SBMM system.
I only play solo survivor, only once in a 2 man swf. Sorry to break your bubble... you still in a team.
If you want to be selfish, pump out the gens and leave. Hide and get the hatch... why save at all? By your logic, even if the killer isn't camping you shouldn't save them, you shouldn't heal others and work together.
It still is a 1v4 game, whether or not you want to admit it.
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Survivors are mainly in control, I don't know what level you play at if you claim that isn't the case at high level. The killer is the counter force, but by no means do they have the majority of control. It isn't 100% in the hands of either side, but it is tilted to survivors.
Your argument that good survivors are supposed to escape even showcases this. Because the counter should also be the case, good killers should get kills.
Survivors ask for freebies all the time, the whole survivors rule book for killers, the complaints about camping, tunneling, etc. Is just the same thing.
I have stated even tonight that survivors played well, gave me little options and so I camped at 1 gen, got a second one on the end game collapse and got called ***** **** camper.
Do gens, play to win... people will whine, but don't be mistaken in the end the advantage still lies with survivors.
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Do some gens, before they hit the next stage arrive with full health, maybe with BT and unhook them, have them body block the second hit and make it to the next loop. If you go down, have your team work on gens, before you hit the next stage, have one of the healthy survivors come and do the trade just as you did or have 2 people come and do it...
People forget this is a team vs 1 game... don't ignore the gens, use the time on the hook and play smart. Wraith does not have an instant down, you can literally tank the hit, unhook and DH out, have a BT body block, etc. Stop trying to 1v1 the killer, you are in a 4 man team!
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@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2566021#Comment_2566021
You're not playing if you're stopping all gameplay for others. Which is what facing does. It's toxic and clearly didn't prevent anything lmfao It happens constantly and is the main reason public matches are quick and pitiful.
The same reason the vaults are not allowed to be abused is the same reason that facers should be penalized. It's being abused.
I clearly said she didn't even see me but you ignored that so i was not in fact "on top of her" and never do that because it irritates me when my own team does it. But nice way to try and gaslight to avoid the topic.
That sabotage tactic came BECAUSE they keep hook guarding and i used it the second I saw she was doing it and it did not work both because of the over trapping and the facing. That is a broken game mechanic we are supposed to be able to save other survivors. Toxic and needs to go. Trying to say I'm toxic when it never stops the killer is completely off the map. You just want so badly not to be penalized for something that is abused just because you claim you don't do it. It's still a problem bad enough to ruin the game and why are you arguing for it if you don't abuse it? Lol
They are not stopping people from playing, as being on the hook is part of the game play loop of survivors. You have the ability to try an unhook, not advisable and you will get skill checks to hit to extend your time on the hook. The fact that it isn't the most fun part of being a survivor is irrelevant, your feelings of that part of the game play is not a definition.
Vaults can be abused if you know how to chain links and use them. Limitations are placed on you, just like skilled survivors can unhook even in the face of a killer. Once again, you are not being objective... go watch some competitive level survivors and see how they deal with it, because guess what camping is part of the competitive scene. Face camping is mainly successful based on the actions of the survivors!
If you are talking about hag, you realize she is a defensive killer right... that places traps around to defend pressure points, which includes hooks and setups a web. To be honest this sounds more like you have no idea how to play against a hag, she plays very differently and yes is very territorial and defensive by nature. Learn to crouch, flash lights to disarm her traps, trigger them when she is locked in animations, actions or unable to come toward you and learn to trigger, 180 turn and run.
You can act like a single game, a single anecdotal evidence isn't a reflection of the actual balance. You claim she didn't know you were there, yet you are unable to know. Sound, Scratch marks or even simply being paranoid can make people act in specific ways.
The hypocrisy is so transparent, you go like the sabotage tactic is because the tactic used by killers. Killers camp and tunnel based on the balance of the game and securing kills is one of the best ways to win. You claim to care about preventing others from playing the game, while your actions are trying to prevent the killer to play their game loop.
Why do I argue in favor of being able to do it? Simple; Sometimes it is a necessity if you want to stand a chance as a killer. End-game camping is literally the only good move. Getting free unhooks is really not warranted and defending the hook is part of the game. It can already be punished if people know what to do, the suggestions people make to resolve this will negatively impact others and be abused by survivors against people that don't face camp! Survivors at decent-good skill levels are already at an advantage, they really don't need a free buff because new and less skilled players are unable to deal with it. So... if you have a valid solution feel free to share, but you have to consider all situations that can occur and how it doesn't hurt killers and giving away all their pressure for free!
Btw. I guess you hate survivors that run the killer for 5 gens! All other survivors can only do gens, sit there in one spot and hit skill checks... they are stopping all gameplay for others, how toxic? The killer isn't having fun either, imagine...
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Funnily enough I have never been locked out for more than 5 mins, crashes, steam failures, etc.
If you DC enough to get multiple hours of being locked out, either you have a shoddy connection or it isn't just crashes.
People already DC for nonsense more than enough, the penalty is needed to keep it in check. When it was off, it ruined most games.
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@Mogul said:
Maybe gens would go slower if you weren't wasting a slot on NOED ;)
Maybe you wouldn't whine about NOED if you did more than just gens? Like... let's see totems?
Quite a double edged sword you used there.
NOED is fine, it is an end game perk with high risk/reward. Being a 3 perk killer throughout the game for a Hex at the end of the match.
You outclass your opponents do you not? Just find the lit totem at the end and cleanse it, run the killer and use the door...
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@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565935#Comment_2565935
Toxic behaviour and it is blocking someone playing the game, reporting system itself defines it as against the rules then turns around ans allows it. If survivors get blocked from vaulting too much then so should kiklers when they face too much. Games are meant to be played and writing me a very long message that says nothing but "I support killers who don't really want to play" over and over.
It deserves to be penalized because it's the only one that actually goes against their own rules because it controls the game like devs say not to. Stay mad, still gonna rally for it to change because as I stated before it's toxic and has no place in gaming when it breaks it.
So, you are toxic for sabotaging a hook? You are preventing the killer from hooking the survivor, which is playing the game? They are not blocking someone from playing, as being hooked and being there is part of the gameplay.
The killer most definitely is playing the game as well, as hooking a survivor and sacrificing them by those means to the entity is their goal.
It is a tactic which can be punished by the survivors. You however hook bomb into it and are around from the down... You are the one rewarding their strategy, instead of giving them some space, placing pressure on them by doing a generator and coordinating a save or trade later on.
You don't understand the meaning of actual toxicity and make claims that are false. Being on hook is part of the survivors game play, as in literally. The fact that the rules and the developers state it isn't reportable nor toxic.
By the logic you have, you are just as if not even more so toxic than the people you face...
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@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565770#Comment_2565770
You support toxic, game breaking, and people not being allowed to play on the off chance that your opinion changes our insane experiences I've also been having with facers. It doesn't change that it has happened often and it has cost the fun of the game because of perks and traps.
It's not entitled or naive to point out that it's broken and prevents gameplay of one player. Basic of basic, players should be able to play and denying it just shows how badly you want to do it. If you don't then why are you here?
Already said camping and tunneling is strategy sometimes that the killer has to do so your only issue is me calling out behaviour that is against the rules but for whatever reason is not penalized in killers. That should change.
You want to talk entitled then act the very definition of it my friend, do better.
You just stated yourself that they are strategies that sometimes needs to be deployed. This showcases your entitlement, as you claim it is only to be used if rules 1, 2 and 3 have been met. That isn't how that works, if it is a requirement some times it means it can be used at any time that the killer believes it would benefit them. Who are you to dictate when it is or isn't a valid option?
You claim it stops someone from playing the game, but hanging on the hook is part of survivors gameplay. It is literally part of the game, it isn't the most engaging just as holding m1 on a generator... yet is it now toxic to do generators? You are sitting in one place and helping the team. If you hang on the hook and keep the killer busy, then you are contributing just the same.
What exactly do you do to ensure the killer has a fun game? You admit to try and deny them their first hook with flash lights and sabo setups, do you think that is fun for them? You are a hypocrite, only caring about your own fun... this is a PvP game, your opponents are not trying to make you have fun and they aren't toxic for trying to win. You think being looped for 5 gens is fun? You think losing 3 gens in the first chase is fun? Does that mean doing gens is toxic, looping is toxic... get out of here. People try to win games, they use tactics and that isn't toxic. If they are toxic, then you are as well!
Against the rules... you might want to read them, it actually states that it is allowed! They aren't denying you anything, if you don't like the survivors game play... don't play it. Look at your team to save you, don't try and dictate how your opponents should play to give you a higher chance of defeating them... how entitled can you be.
Btw. If you read my post you would have read that face camping from the start would lose me games, not win them... the survivors I face actually know how to respond to it.
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@Eli2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565643#Comment_2565643
I have. My position still stands. The only way to get a fun game in these days is to play the killer. There is no reason to face to face survivors on hooks, it's not the same as teabagging which has zero effect on the killer where them hook humping definitely gives then an edge.
I can let go camping and even tunneling, knowing certain maps REALLY well has helped a ton in that area and I've even started using sabotage kits/ flashlights to help.
Neither of which did anything to save me or my whole team when I had offered something to make the hooks further apart and I have insane unhooking speed when the hook guard. I'm decent at timing too if they are hitting but they ALWAYS down me then I'm on the hook. At that point everyone knows what they do and I am abandoned. Even waiting to let then handle it, usually just dead quicker with no unhooking boost. Like I even have slippery meat and still man, it's ubreal or i wouldn't be nad because it's a fub game. But not if I dont get to actually play which is 80% of my time in match now.
You state it gives them an edge, meaning you are just being entitled. Face camping isn't even that good, if I would do it in my killer games I would lose. Survivors that are good can deal with a face camper as a team, Bubba is the most difficult to face and makes it nearly impossible... yet some teams can pull it off.
80% of the time you get face camped, seems unlikely and if it is true most definitely is due to your own abilities. I am nowhere near a good survivor while I get face camped at times the majority of games it either costs them the game or my team can save me.
If you are trading are you doing this at the start or do you use the time on the hook do also do gens? To me it sounds like you are hook bombing and expect the killer to not defend it. Flash lights, Sabo kits... all showcase that you are hovering around the hook, giving them zero reasons to leave. You are the reason it gives them an edge, you are the one that makes the tactic work...
Sorry, but the killer isn't supposed to throw the game for your benefit. They aren't there to make your game enjoyable, they are there to try and win. They can use any tactic they choose and face camping only works if the survivors let it.
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Go play some killer to the extent you played survivor, you are coming across as entitled and naive.
Camping 100% at times is simply the correct move. You might not see it, but there are legit reasons to do it. Just some simple examples, end game, positioned within a 3 gen, noticed multiple survivors in the area, etc.
Slapping you on hook, if that is the griefing you speak about is the equivalent of tea bagging.
You have been enjoying the game have you not, so how is the killer the only one having fun.
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Guess you don't play killer, because there is a reason the majority of people find that role to be the more stressful one.
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It is not fair at all, as you ignore multiple aspects:
It is incredibly easy to avoid the chase, while still threatening the unhook.
The location of where you hook as a killer can be extremely important in order to apply pressure upon a team.
The elimination of facecamping as stated here shifts the balance more towards survivors and removes pressure that the killer built up. Go play killer and face people that are equally skilled and decent at the game, then tell me that under no circumstances it is warranted? If you want to remove camping you cannot just remove all the pressure from the killers side... they might have hooked the person smack in the middle of their 3 gen.
Camping can be throwing the game or simply the best tactic available. One sided solutions like this are bad, because it takes away without giving anything back. The fun part goes both ways, it might not be fun for the survivors... but losing all pressure because survivors fun, isn't fun for the killers!
Those that say, just play normally... clearly don't actually play killer, even the best of them slug, tunnel and camp at times. They just know the difference between when it would be throwing the game, maybe if they outclass their opponents would be overkill and when it is a good idea.
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Simple, you can thank all those entitled players that believe they have the right to ruin anyone's experience if things don't go their way.
The periods where the penalty is not active simply playing any game becomes nearly impossible without some entitles selfish player leaving the match. No cheater required and even now is far more likely than encountering a cheater.
Cheaters while they might be an issue and unfun to encounter; they are actually breaking the ToS to a degree that warrants a ban, unlike people that leave a match.
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Well by your analysis the killers will have more to deal with and therefore will need to make time by adjusting elsewhere.
Frankly in my opinion you won't see it much more or less than usual. Killers adjust based on the situation that they are dealing with, survivors in the end dictate the pace of the game for the majority.
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Balance is a necessity in any multiplayer game, it doesn't matter whether it is asymmetrical or not. Almost every game isn't 100% balanced even chess has that white has a slight advantage over black just because they start first. A large majority of games always tinker and keep working on balance, adjusting characters, weapons, maps, etc. To get as close as possible to equally balanced and yes you can do the same for this game, because a killer is not a survivor they are quicker, have a power, have a different objective etc.
Anyone that claims just give up on balancing shows no understanding of games. Nobody wants to play a game they have no chance of winning. The game might be survivor sided, but it isn't 100% one way. When people talk about making it balanced they state to make it closer
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@TheMadCat said:
I don't understand the "stack". What does it mean? The effect of the Boon only affects the one who blessed the totem?
No, it means if the area of multiple boons overlap they do not provide 2x, 3x or 4x the effect.
All teammates still get to use the effect of the boon that is active.