JustAnotherNewbie
JustAnotherNewbie
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@Cyber_Atlas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255089#Comment_3255089
I agree with everything. It is a good analysis.
The point of this post is so that people stop dramatizing over those actions. It is not a defense of said actions.
To each their own.
But in game stuff should stay in game, not in chats. As we all play to have fun
Camping and tunneling feel hopeless because soloq does not have adequate tools to deal with them. Like you can't even see your team's perks. If I knew someone had certain perks, maybe I'd know or at least try how to play around it (say Deliverance). I like to run Distortion as survivor if I'm trying hard so as not to give away info to the killer, but distortion can be so much more if you can just communicate but in soloq you can't. For example if killer is running Lethal Persuer I try to tbag my teammates to communicate it to them, maybe they'll understand but it never works.
The game is supposed to be played as a team but here I can't play as a teammate because the game's design itself won't let me lol. Those are the frustrating parts, because you can do so much more for you team but the game limits you while if you played in a SWF you wouldn't have that problem.
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Circle of Healing is only good probably at top MMR. Most of the time it works as another gen-slowdown for killer since they boon 4-5 totems in a game which is like a minute of not doing gens, not counting the time they waste looking for the totem if they don't have perks for finding totems.
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Exhaustion perks are the equivalent of gen-regression perks for killer. The extend the chase therefore wasting time for killer just like gen-regression slows down gens for survivors. Both are about denying their opponents their objective.
Looping and chases keep getting nerfed. The Killer coming out is anti-loop and one of his perks punishes the survivor for stunning Killer with a pallet and rewards the killer getting stunned with Exposed.
If looping gets even more nerfed then gen-rushing will become even more prevalent (and the new survivor has 3 perks that revolve around gens, 2 of which affect gen repair speed). I dunno how fun you find this, but from what I've been reading Killers don't seem especially fond of gen-rushing. If you hate chasing as well what is left for you to do as Killer. Should the game become hide and seek again?
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@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255010#Comment_3255010
there is a diffrent between being annoyed by things or trying to tell you to follow my rulebook. I hate loops as a killer, its not fun. Ive never heard a killer say "dont loop its lame".
just tired of the "dont do that, dont do this." how about "dont try to make others play how YOU want them to." for a change?
I don't. To me it makes perfect sense that killers will tunnel and camp because that is what the game supports and it is the most effective way to win by design.
What I dislike is that this specific strategy has no barrier to entry because it is not gated by perks OR killer powers (obviously some killers excel at camping because of their power) and not even skill (like I said even a newbie player has the ability to do this and the instinct), but to counter it you have to have co-ordination. It frankly asks a lot more on the survivor side than the killer side. If it was more skillful to do perhaps I wouldn't be as bothered since that would mean people who are good at killer can do this and people who are new or bad cannot (like dead hard and flashlights for survivors).
Now keep in mind that this is from a soloq player and not a person playing with SWF and it seems to me from the new chapter that will come out, that BHVR cares more about the game going towards a more team-oriented direction with the new survivor's perk which revolve all around gens and seems to me they are pushing the focus to gens. Now this would be well and good if soloq players had any means to communicate and co-ordinate with each other but currently they don't.
So understand why I am being rather unpleasant. You could say I've been spoiled by League of Legend's available communication even if you don't have voice-chat and seeing DBD being allergic to implementing the bare minimum (like in game chat) strikes me as weird and strange.
It feels like playing soloq you have less agency but more responsibility. Unlike equal responsibility. It's high risk low reward. Your mistakes count a lot more as a soloq survivor and on top of that you can also influence negatively your team by your mistake.
But good decisions don't always guarantee a win even if you have 8 good decision and do 2 mistakes those mistakes can cost you a lot more. So it feels even if individually you do well, you don't have carry potential unless killer is so bad.
And this is also the same way League has evolved over the years. Like back in the earlier seasons some champions could steamroll the other team by themselves, but as years have passed that power has been negated from those champions and it is easier to shut them down now.
As a survivor you can't have such a huge role because there isn't a group of perks that allows you to do so much and your resources are finite. So the more the game lasts the weaker survivors become.
Personally when I play killer and it is rare mind you, I just go for the 3k and don't sweat it and give hatch. For me 3k is a win, perhaps I'd go for 4k if I felt the last survivor didn't deserve it or to challenge myself, so I guess by that I follow the survivor's rulebook since that's probably how survivors would prefer you win as opposed to slugging for the 4k. At the same time I'm not above tunneling or proxy camping (I play Artist so you can't really use her power near a hook anyway). I don't tunnel intentionally yet but if someone unhooks and I'm close and I feel the guy who got unhooked is easier to catch than the unhooker I'll go after them. As for proxy camping I do it near end-game since usually survivors will try to go for the save and you can get a few kills that way. Like I said, I play it rarely so perhaps if I played it as often as survivor I would change my mind who knows.
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@Cyber_Atlas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255001#Comment_3255001
I believe the speed of generators being done is suffered indipendentely from survivors doing them. Means it has different factors (map, spawns, chases) but never how people play.
Complaining about looping has to do with frustration. At that point, some people dc as well. It is a loss for a killer, and it's clearly a skill issue. Is it not?
The point is : tunneling/camping/slugging is not enough to guarantee a win. And you should not take it for more than it is
If the killer is outclassed by the survivors, yes obviously. If they are the same level though, can you really claim that?
I've had killers with one or two perks who are attempting to tunnel, but we have more time played so obviously we outskill him as we have more hours than him. But it is questionable in the first place that we get to play vs a beginner.
Is it a skill issue if survivors get to end game and killer has no hooks but he has NOED and end up getting a 3k because he caught the team grouped up in gate trying to open it? He sucked all game long, but now he got a 3k cause he made one good decision and NOED (or maybe you could think of a different end-game perk) handed him a win. Although by his performance all game his skill was lackluster.
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@Cyber_Atlas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254987#Comment_3254987
I always always complimented people for looping long and find smart ways. I started to play this year and for my first 100h as a killer I played with people with 10-20 times my hours. No matter, how frustrating it was to loose, against what for me where impossible matches, I always spread positivity and never have I thought to complain in the endgame chat.
Now ask the rest of the hardcore killer mains here if they like survivors looping them for 2-3 gens. Because most of what I see is people complaining about main buildings and safe pallets. And the killer that is coming has an anti-loop power. Even BHVR doesn't like looping anymore and probably want to move the game into a more gen-oriented meta (new survivor has 3 perks focused on gens with one also being an aura revealing perk under conditions and killer has 1 perk about gens but also gives aura revealing, 1 for aura reveal and one for getting stunned, basically punishing survivors for getting pallet stuns).
I'm sure playing with a team of people you know the game is completely different and very fun, but playing alone in a game that wants to go even more into the teamplay route while being hostile to soloq having anyway to communicate with each other besides aura perks for team is painful.
And I play LoL, which is known as being highly toxic and also requires team-co-ordination and I don't think I've ever felt this helpless as in DBD soloq.
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@Terion said:
its not even only camping or that fancy fantasy word "tunneling" and the just as fancy made up word "slugging". Those are just easy targets to blame someone for playing to their advantage. You could aswell argue it doesnt require skill to do gens or throw pallets. You dont hear killers say "stop throwing pallets" all though they give the survivors also a huge advantage.
What they really think is unfun is loosing. Which is true, who loves to loose? but i can decide to blame it on various things that people have written in their rulebook or i can take the L and try next, OR, if its too annoying then i can like... Play something else and try the next day.
People should play how they want, as long as they are not cheating they are fine.
Camping and tunelling is more accessible as it is the first instinct any newbie killer has.
Looping is not an instinct for survivors or understanding which pallets are safe and which not and gens do require some timing at first. Newbie survivors' instinct at first is too hide and run in a straight line, but the game doesn't work like that because they don't know how to hide effectively or when they are supposed to run in a straight line.
Killers do complain about looping and gen-rushing though, and doing gens is survivors' main objective.
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How do you punish tunneling and camping?
If you scour the forums people will say they camp and tunnel because it's effective and then they will say it's needed in high level play. So who do I believe, you a survivor main? Or a killer main who claims tunneling and camping is necessary to win? If it is used in high MMR wouldn't that imply it's a highly effective strategy and not something easily punishable?
Does the killer compliment you when you run them for 2-3 gens because as a survivor main I've never gotten a killer be like "you actually were too good in the chase". The only communication I've gotten is being hit on hook or camped. Should I feel flattered then?
What are the perks that counter tunneling and camping?
The ones I can think of for camping are Reassurance which isn't free and you'd need to always be the one going for the save just to check if the killer is around and maybe Kinship, which requires teamplay.
For tunneling I can think of maybe BT and Off the Record and in the past DS when it was stronger, but it is also behind a paywall.
Or should you instead run a gen-rushing build like Hyperfocus/Stake out with Toolbox?
Wouldn't that only re-inforce the idea that killers have to run 4 gen-slowdown perks? And then survivors have to use builds for gen-rushing. Is that really the fun part of the game?
Just stop claiming tunneling and camping can be punished easily. There's a reason high level players also use them, because they are highly effective and they are very accessible for every killer. They don't depend on perks or killer power because every killer can do that (some better than others of course) and sometimes maps make camping even easier when they have narrow hallways and you can pretty much body block entrances. (what do you do against insta down killers camping?)
If you play like 5 games a week maybe I can understand your attitude but if you play 5-7 games daily as soloq survivor and still stay as positive and want to spread a positive message then can't we say the same about killers complaining about going against gen-rushing builds and bully squads and SWFs.
Also, if you ran the killer for 2 gens and did a gen or two and rescued two people but you lost (die) trying to body block for your teammate who's on death hook can you say this person did bad and they deserve to lose? What mistake did he personally make when he contributed so much?
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Yesterday I had games where, we got 1 DC at the start of the game.
ANother game where the game was going well a survivor DC-d (they were AFK for a while although until that point they played normally). Then Kate suicided on first hook at 1 gen left. And me and the other survivor left were second hook or something.
Then I played against Hillbilly on RPD, he downed me first and proceeded to facecamp me on the hook outside the gate near main hall on the left where the doorway can fit only one person and two teammates were trying to rescue me then Laurie went down trying to save me and he proceeded to hook and facecamp her instead. This person got 3 kills this way (actually last man down DC'd, it was a Quentin, but I think that had more to do with Dwight like walking off into the gate and not even giving Quentin attempts since he was first hook).
Then we got a Wraith at Lery's running full slowdown build (overcharge, eruption, call of brine and maybe Corrupt but I'm not sure of the last one).
I'm honestly starting to feel very tempted to go the Stakeout/Hyperfocus road.
Icons of what your teammates doing would be useful as well as status effects being visible to everyone (in the Wraith game me and a Haddie were working on a gen when Eruption hit us both and Mikhaela came for a heal and I couldn't because I was incapacitated and couldn't communicate that to her).
And I don't think killers here genuinely care. They just keep playing DC's and suicides which I don't agree with, but they can never answer how soloq can counter full slowdown build if they're not high MMR.
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If your MMR is average to low you can definitely bully survivors, but they are thinking of implementing MMR decay if you haven't been playing recently so it's easier to get back. I dunno if that will be implemented next update or will take a while though.
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Ada for now. I got the RE DLC thinking I'll be a Rebecca main cause everyone was hyping her up and ended up an Ada main somehow. Her heels are a bit too loud though.
Other than that she's pretty awesome, I hope they add more outfits for her and maybe one day the bring Devil May Cry outfits for the Capcom character and she gets a Lady Legendary but probably they'd give her a Trish since they're more similar.
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Yeah I have but we don't always make it out together unfortunately, many times we'rejust doing the killer a favor.
Like one time in Midwich, Trapper was facecamping a Meg (probably inexperienced) with two traps on either side. And me and Nea were trying to save Meg, but she got to stage two. Anyway I went in and traded for her and Meg survived a while longer. Well he face-camped me then and when I died he killed my whole team lol. So there is no justice to be had.
Another game I was Jill and trying to save Jeff against Nurse who was hooked near the gate. Well I did and we traded, but he came back for me and we both died, lol.
And another time as Ada against Ghostface, a Jill saved me earlier in the game and in the late game she got hooked. We could actually get 4 escaped if the rest of the team co-ordinated with me, well I tried to go back to save her and return the favor but I died to Ghostface, she was a bit far from the gate admittedly.
I usually don't do this if killer is running NOED in end game unless we cleanse it.
I cannot really recall a clear example of where I sacrificed myself either by protection hit or trading hooks cause they usually end up giving the killers more kills in the end.
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OP, don't mind those people. They are used to DBD after all those years and it's hard for them to change their opinion now. I joined in August and I came from League of Legends and I've played some fighting games.
My observations so far have been that DBD cannot decide if it wants to be casual or competitive and even then if they wish to attract new players and keep casual they should be finding ways to retain them without compromising the aspect of the competitive side or higher MMR however you want to view it. It is frankly bull people are giving you this opinion but it's probably bias after they've been around so long.
Now where does League and fighting games fit into this post?
Well basically League is so huge that it has many players AND has been around for 10+ years now. It has had bots since at least 2011 and it has a robust competitive scene. The thing is League really puts in work to match people of appropriate skill levels together for the most part.
Being a higher skilled player and playing with lower skilled players to stomp them is generally frowned upon and from the way Riot has handled it they also don't support that sort of playstyle (namely Smurfs), that's why there is such a thing called smurf queue. What is smurf queue? Basically it's a queue that players who are experienced at league but appear as beginner (like new account) go to if they are detected they are playing to good and new players are generally matched with other new players. The game is obviously much deeper than DBD and matches last longer, meaning you have to be multi-tasking most of the time and on top of that it's a team game. (matches last from anywhere from 20 mins up to 40 or more in rare cases). So you can imagine how jarring it was to join DBD after League.
As far as fighting games go, I will admit I am no good, but fighting games have a huge problem when it comes to newbies kind of like DBD atm. Because most people have been playing for a while the ration of older to newer players is pretty wack for most fighting games so new players are matched against more experienced players and queues are usually pretty long on console for me (try playing Soul Calibur 6 nowadays, maybe I'm too low ranked). It also doesn't help that you have to pay for subscription to even play online against other people and that it needs very good netcode for many people to enjoy the online experience, but every game offers something different. Regardless the most popular ones are Tekken for 3d fighters and I am gonna assume Street Fighter for 2d, so these problems I am describing might not apply (besides the netcode). For games like King of Fighters though or the older Guilty Gear this can be observed. I did get into Guilty Gear a bit but playing ranked had no players whatsoever, and most players playing GG accent core plus r have been playing easily over a decade, that's why Strive trying to make the game easier to get into. Regardless, most youtubers, posters on reddit etc. will tell you that you'll get ######### on and lose maybe a 100 games or more before you even one because of all those factors I listed and people accept that, not because it's fair but because this is the state of the game imo. If fighting games could bring in the same crowd in numbers as LoL does you would not see this kind of mindset probably. Fighting games are also difficult mechanically and not everyone can execute everything after a couple of hours.
For DBD this is not a problem because it's simple enough mechanically both for survivors and killers for the most part. I would like to think DBD has many more players online daily than GG accent core or some other fighting games (ignoring the most popular obviously), so it would not explain why on Halloween of all days, when this game is free and they can make a good impression they didn't decide to implement some last minute decent matchmaking considering they have experience with this.
I dunno where exactly I am going with this, but mostly I agree with you. I think they could have made a good impression this weekend considering so many people would be playing it. Just because DBD players have stuck around and accept some decisions BHVR has made either because they agree or they can't think of an alternative doesn't mean people outside this playerbase will accept it. Many games are making their games accessible by removing mechanics and difficulty and the veterans always complain about games being dumbed down and I cannot say I blame them. If I were god-like at a game and could win tournaments or get top 3 or something I also would hate to make my skill more accessible, but at the same time it gets stale if the game becomes impenetrable and it only comprises of veterans, that's how it dies down. Because no fresh blood can get in. The way DBD is right now for survivors is high-skill floor while for killers it's low-skill floor that's why you see this happening. You have to spend a lot more time as survivor to get decent and it still doesn't guarantee you win if your team sucks than with killer who starts out easy and gets more complex the more you play.
I simply think they should have implemented a more accurate MMR for this weekend, if not at all levels maybe the lower ones then or perhaps the starting MMR.
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Because they probably can't play her lol.
I've seen even Nurses walk you down cause they are not confident in their blinks most of the time.
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Hm...I play on Epic Games through Nvidia and ever since the second patch for Halloween I get multiple crashes when I run it. It doesn't crask when I'm in-game thankfully, but I never had this problem before the Halloween event. It's way too common (like a daily occurrence)
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As survivor surprisingly well. I escaped most of them somehow. Might be my current build I dunno, or maybe I was lucky. Did have an unfortunate game where I got hit by NOED on my first hook and died but it was just me and Mikaela left at that point. The only thing maybe I'd prefer to do differently is be a bit more altruistic perhaps. Since some of my teammates seemed newer I did save them and healed tham but I can't say I really traded myself much for them (except once) because I felt it would be the end of me afterwards (like after I get hooked they'd get caught soon after and there would be no one left to save me) but I pipped pretty good and I do wanna reach Iri 1 if I have the time before reset.
Afterwards I played a bit of Killer, the Artist. I got a game on Lery's and got 3k and gave hatch to last survivor.
Then I got Lery's again and was playing against survivors who did wanna be chased, unfortunately I was also lagging as hell at the time and would get stuck on walls and I didn't manage to kill any of the two, but I did get their teammates due to NOED. So 2k.
Then I had a weird game at Yamaoka Residence against 3 Clauds and 1 Yui. For some reason Yui pointed their location to me at the start, maybe they had a spat so that gave me a big advantage, or maybe they were fighting over the locker? I still don't get it and no one replied to me in endgame chat when I asked. I got out with 3k and last Claud got hatch (didn't find her). Some people just made it really hard for themselves because they'd hide in lockers and my birds did show them due to Killer Instinct so they must have been bummed out.
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Birdlady would make a great survivor. Bring Carmina as a survivor, she makes a lot more sense than Killer.
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Wiretap is awesome , at some point I was running it with Repressed Alliance (didn't have Blast Mine at the time), so next time I play it again I'll add Blast Mine, awesome combo and pretty strong in indoor maps. It's my Cheryl build, haven't played Cheryl in a while.
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I thought playing both sides improved your gameplay from both sides. Like, as a survivor if you play killer you start to understand killer more in depth and vice versa. So I'm not sure I agree that someone cannot be exceptional on both.
Killers do have a lot more variety so someone who indeed specializes on one killer, may be better than someone who plays many killers on a very high level. I would compare it to a one-trick pony main in League. Even Faker played different roles than mid lane and it probably made him an all around better player.
I personally play 95% survivor at the moment and maybe even less than 5% killer. I didn't like who was free so I was trying to save up for one I like. I don't have that much time to play both as I work full time and my net isn't always stable. I started as survivor so I'm more biased towards survivor. Currently I'm trying to learn the Artist. I really love her design and her powers are cool. She does need some setting up to do and I can't say I'm really good at it. At the moment my experience as survivor somewhat helps me, although I just got a tie cause I kept getting into chases with two very chase oriented survivors and it didn't help that I was lagging like mad. Regardless I got away with 2 sacrifices because I knew the people slamming gens were probably not that good at chases they fell to NOED (this really is a second chance perk atm). What I'd like to get better at is injuring survivors with my birds, currently I'm not that good at it as I'm still learning the ropes but I'd like to believe my chasing skills as survivor will come in handy maybe.
As for survivor most of them are interchangeable unfortunately. I expected to like certain survivors and I do like them (Mikaela, Nea) and expected to be a Rebecca main, but somehow I ended up an Ada main. Currently I'm playing her with a bit of a stealthy build since I want to get my pips fast and since she is spy-like it sort of fits her.
I run Dead Hard, Distortion, Clairvoyance (I like being able to see the chests as well) and Resilience for the extra action speed. Although my favorite build on her is Dead Hard, Residual Manifest, Blash Mine and Flashbang. But it's a very risky build and currently I don't have the skills to make it work. Maybe someday I'll be able to play with it the way I imagine. If I get to Iri 1 before the reset I'll switch to this build as I don't have to try as hard anymore. It's simply the grind is too much for my schedule right now.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238546#Comment_3238546
I had a match a few days ago with a couple survs (I think they were a 2 man) running No Mither and one or the other was going down literally every 15-20 seconds.
I had a Meg earlier (at prestige 15 mind you) running No Mither with purple medkit. We couldn't even get a gen done, she was the first to go down. If the killer let's them get up maybe it's ok? But of course killer never lets them because it's so obvious they have it.
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I get mad at the matchmaking when they put completely baby survivors in my match or baby killers with no or one perk.
And also to whoever is running No Mither. They can never run the killer, lol.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238343#Comment_3238343
"Technician is very beginner friendly"
lol
lmao even
I didn't claim it was a good perk. it's the same trap as Self-care (ok maybe not as bad).
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She is free on console and generally the most I see commonly are the survivors that come free with the game. She also has decent perks and Technician is very beginner friendly.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238245#Comment_3238245
Nah, man, you're right. Because this guy will beat me with Nurse on 1 game sample size, then my argument is gone - completely disappeared into ashes. This guy has just proved that Nurse indeed is OP.
Cringe attempt at flexing.
This reminds me of a time when I beat 4 survivors and one of them asks me "come 1v1". It's hilarious.
You can do 5 rounds. I mean how long is it gonna take to go through them all, like 30 mins at most?
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238258#Comment_3238258
I won't use 1 game against random as my argument - it's delusional. You would have to play against that person 10+ times to get anything statistically relevant. And even then, it's one person. I'm sorry that you are finding this hard to grasp statistically.
My arguments were based on 50s+ of games playing as and against Nurse. Additionally, you have statistics which devs have released that Nurse does have counterplay, even at top MMR. These statistics are also consistent throughout the years when Nurse always had low winrate compared to killers.
Or who knows, maybe I am just lying and I can't state anything until I beat this guy on Sunday evening, LOL! Ngl, I kind of giggled when I read all of this. Funny.
To be honest the statistics they released don't track killer builds. When Nurse's are not runnign Lethal and Starstruck and whatever else fits that build, they are easier to play against. I only have like 250 hours of DBD so far and average Nurses are manageable, Ive even managed to escape and run a Nurse on Midwich once, but she still got a 3k because she had NOED. I do agree it's unreasonable to be scared of her or DC once you hear her (that has happened too in my matches), but aura reading Nurse leaves a lot less mind-gaming to chance.
The way I understand it is that you're supposed to keep her guessing, but if she's seeing you behind the wall there's nothing to guess on her part.
I do find playing vs Nurse fun if she's chasing me and I can keep up, but if she decides to give up on me most of the time she can easily get kills and I'm not even that good. I do think people exaggerate Nurse players, but I think they are on to something when Nurse is going for the try-hard build in solo.
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@CoDismylife said:
Can you show us the counterplay in a custom match? I'm willing to take the role of nurse. You show us how you counter someone like me who doesn't even play nurse. Then we can start discussions about how to counter someone who plays nurse regularly. IF you even can show it well against me haha
Well have you ever played her before or will this be a first time Nurse? It'd would be more meaningful if they were playing vs an average Nurse.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238229#Comment_3238229
Except now, looking up doesn't stop the blind!
That was a thing? I had no idea.
I just knew there was a weird bug with the new flashlights where you could blind the killer by pointing it at his feet.
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They just fixed it with the newest patch drop.
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Nurse's counterplay to you then. Nurse then goes hunts down your team.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237213#Comment_3237213
"Sorry for my rant, I just don't think under any circumstances a killer under 100 hours should be able to beat survivors who have collectively 500h or more etc. But the reality of the situation is that one weak link for survivors is more often than not a death sentence."
Maybe you just didn't put enough thought into the numbers, but it really doesn't work like that. There is really no appreciable difference between a player with 125 hours (1/4th of 500) and a player with 100 hours. It should be pretty much almost an even game.
Likewise, if you have a team with 5300 collective hours, vs me with 700 hours, if that team is one survivor with 5k hours and three others with 100 hours each, I'm probably taking home at least the 3k win in 90% of my games against them.
The point being that it is down to what the individual composition of that team is like, and that a 25% advantage in hours on an individual player basis is not enough for some great revelation in the game to provide a sheer overwhelming advantage in a balanced game.
To be honest I was initially going to type down 1000 hours collectively. So that would mean that each survivor probably has double the hours of the killer, if they are equally distributed.
Still, if it's unevenly with a survivor at 500 hours, another one at 300 and the last two 100 each, it still feels iffy to me if it's that easy for the killer to win. Maybe one day it'll make sense.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236943#Comment_3236943
Haven't kicked a gen in 8 months. I am your mortal enemy.
You probably don't run Overcharge, Call of Brine, Eruption or Dragon's Grip. But I can only assume.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237110#Comment_3237110
Tbf, when I nowadays get hit by a DS I got confused what's going on and why someone is wasting a perk slot in such a way and then continue the chase just mildly inconvenient, often ending it 10s later. Back in the days I was more conscience which survivor got unhooked recently and even had an eye in the desktop (the real life one) clock, now I just down and hook whomever I happen to stumble about.
I 100% support the "make DS great again, just not in EGC" movement.
I don't disagree, I also wanted to add that DS these days isn't even that strong but I simply proceeded to correct them.
Basekit BT is a lot more useful than DS probably (I don't run it).
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237117#Comment_3237117
Survivors are far too strong/efficient at 4 people, and slightly too weak/inefficient at 3, then it cascades and becomes damn near unwinnable at 2 and 1. Their objective is far too focused on strength in numbers (which makes sense) but that knowledge also emphasizes the importance of minimizing that advantage as fast as possible (which also makes sense.) In other words, survivors need to be weaker at 4, but lose less strength at 3 and less to offset their efficiency cap that is imposed by losing numbers.
Think of the EGC timer, and how it slows down as people are down or hooked. That type of scaling is done because the point of the mechanic is to speed up the resolution of the game, but the concession against its speed is presented to make said factor have less of an impact on the viability of late game saves. It prioritizes "wrapping things up," but weakens that time limits impact as an advantage for the killer. It was a good design choice that was done to address the root of an issue (in that case, before it even was presented) and reduce an inherent advantage from getting out of control for one side in certain situations.
Ok but this goes back to the usual question. If survivors get weaker because SWF is too strong, where does that leave solo survivor again?
I play solo so I am coming at it from that angle. For me it's simply frustrating when a killer can do the bare minimum because they got a down early (depending on the time of the day it is almost guaranteed I get at least one person who is playing a beginner survivor with no prestige) by coming across or intentionally go after (I can't really know) the baby. Ok that's fair, but if they decide to camp them it is even more frustrating. Because in solo you cannot co-ordinate that and especially at the start if no one has Kindred. And say I leave my gen to go save. Ok now I just wasted time and the whole counter of "just do gens" came crumbling down. What if another person came for the save? Now two people aren't doing gens.
Say I try to unhook, killer hits me and then I unhook anyway so we trade. Well now no one guarantess me I will play the game first of all and second of all, the killer has just skipped the part where he is weakest at, which is chasing by playing this way and getting away with 1K most of the time guaranteed and maybe even more by doing the bare meanimum. It seems to me it's the equivalent of that teammate who hides all game and somehow escapes at the end, by finding hatch. Both are the bare minimum.
Ok so what about the killers who know this is the efficient play, either camping or tunneling (camping isn't always efficient if you wanna win, but against solo it is a pretty strong strategy). How are they prepared then to face against stronger survivors if they never had to develop their other skills and game sense? I wasn't playing when old Dead Hard was around, I joined just around the time that patch which nerfed it dropped. When I read posts in those forums and on reddit people claim old DH boosted survivors, can't the same be said for Killers camping then? Why is one considered unhealthy and the other just a strategy?
I'm not against it being a thing, it's that currently it's very low effort from the Killer's side especially if that's the playstyle they are going intentionally. Whenever I come across new killers, that's their instinct as well, it's intuitive. Sometimes they do get panicky though if they hear gens popping. I just find it unfair and silly, that as a survivor to survive you need to have a number of skills developed to survive, looping, be able to do gens, not 3-genning yourself, know how to counter killers. But killer you can just catch the weakest and skip looping or even gen pressure and still come out with 3k or more, which again is more common in solo and it thrives because of the lack of co-ordination.
I agree that maybe 3 remaining survivors or 2 should not be so power-creeped, but I dunno how that would get fixed and how weakening 4 survivors would affect solo.
Sorry for my rant, I just don't think under any circumstances a killer under 100 hours should be able to beat survivors who have collectively 500h or more etc. But the reality of the situation is that one weak link for survivors is more often than not a death sentence.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236961#Comment_3236961
Why not go a step further and address the efficiency shift that happens with each person down or out? It would actually fix things for both sides instead of just focusing on one.
Care to elaborate please?
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@Sandt21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351594/forced-hook-trade-is-too-strong
If I can be blunt, it sounds like you want this game to make camping 100% beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt, impossible. To not only make camping harder, but to remove the ability to do so completely. Obviously, I'm not a dev, but I'd still bet my life that this is simply NEVER going to happen.
Killers lose points if they camp, and there are several perks designed from the ground up to help with camping, such as DS, BT, Off The Record, Reassurance, and others still. And I'll bet there will be more anti camping perks and base kit changes in the future.
With all that said, if a killer wants to camp, they'll camp, While it sucks when it happens to a survivor, it will always be a viable strategy in DBD, and its never going away
DS, BT, Off the Record are anti-tunneling perks not anti-camping.
Reassurance and Kinship are anti-camping I guess and there's an argument to be made about Reassurance being behind a paywall.
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@Nyxsie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236961#Comment_3236961
I played solo q survivor against Oni earlier today. He camped endgame (without his power). He was camping for a grab so I went for the unhook while a Steve bodyblocked for me. We survived.
Meaning? Is it the same thing going down in end-game with going down 10 secs in and getting camped? I'm really confused what your point is. You can also usually guess in end-game they're gonna camp and know what to do. You don't always know early on in soloq that you're dealing with a camper and then one survivor goes in and either is wasting their own time trying to save, trading hooks (at best), getting hit and leaving or at worst getting downed or grabbed.
I've also managed to get saves that way in end game, when somehow all teammates share a braincell at that exact moment, but you can't know at the start of the match.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237017#Comment_3237017
Try DH for exhaustion. I don't like the perk normally, but for sabo plays it gives you chance for one more body blocks.
Also flashlight is almost always better (sure lightborn or franklin exists, but so does iron grasp/agitation) if you can get the correct timing.
Seeing hook always is QOL update that I can always live without. If you have enough time to pick from that many hooks, you have enough time to spot them without aura (hooks have some spawn rules). With regards to how dev team operates, I don't want this buff (because in the end it does almost nothing, but dev team would consider it huge buff). It's like you also don't take visionary/dejavu after some playtine.
I do use DH actually.
I'm not that good with flashlights but I'm trying. And they can run out of power, so I like to have Flashbangs and vice versa. It's just a fun build to be honest. I'm sure I'll find something more optimal in the future.
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They could also rework it? Even after your proposed changes it sounds a bit weak and like it's more geared towards beginners, but then the question becomes is it a good perk for beginners to use or will it make it necessary as they go forward and they're essentially left only with 3 perks if using this perk becomes a bad habit?
It could use a secondary effect.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236779#Comment_3236779
Sabo is not just risky. If survivor does not die in corner or in gate, killer will be able to hook survivor even if you sabo hook perfectly (because hooks are so close to each other). If killer downs someone nect to hook, then don't even bother. You can sabo 1 hook and there will be 4-5 more he can carry the survivor to even if you take 2 hits.
I mean I play the perk almost always, because it's so much fun when it works. But this perk is hands down THE worst one in my build. One thing that I would really love to see if devs ever wanted to actually buff the perk. Make it sabo the hook in 2.5s. that's the time in perk description. In reality it takes 3s and this is huge.
I like sabo with toolbox although I don't run it often (I'm trying to get good with Flashbang for saves and it is quite fun anyway). It is risky in the sanse that most of the time you end up bodyblocking which means you lose a healthstate AND your sabo can be interrupted. I think being able to see hooks by default would be a nice buff as well as not go on cooldown if you down't complete the action.
And maybe your buff is also reasonable. I just think it would be a lot more reliable if some of those things were taken care of. I'd consider running it with flashbang for a sabo build, but as it stands now I prefer flashband with a fully blindness oriented build (Blast Mine and Residual Manifest for the aura reading denial and when gens are done changing to a flashlight). I'm still not good with it but it's fun none-the less (unless enemy has lightborn which makes all of that useless).
I'd run Sabo, Flashbang, Breakout and maybe an exhaustion perk if it got a little bit buffed. I mean now that I think about it I should really try this build although it does lack teammate aura reading which is useful imo.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I have the same experience. Since the last mid-chapter my killer queue in the morning to mid-day are like 5+ minutes. I am EU EAST.
ONLY HAPPEN AFTER MID-CHAPTER (META SHAKE UP), PRIOR WAS LESS THAN A MINUTE
I play on EU West (but I am EU EAST honestly) and can confirm this as a survivor. I don't think I've ever seen survivor incentives anything but 100% from morning to midday (in fact until around 8pm give or take). I joined two months ago.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236961#Comment_3236961
I didn't realize survivors can start out on a hook.
If all you need to chase is one and they go down in 10 secs, it is almost as if they started on hook, isn't it?😁 Especially if they're facecamping afterwards.
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Well, I've certainly come across cuter killers this time around. Like a Ghostface wanting to do a slug race and Spirit wanting to do pallet challenge (I can only assume) and I throw down the pallets for her to break. It also is a bit more chill sometimes as it seems you get a bigger variety of killers than before?
But as far as teammates go, many of them are quitters and dc at the first obstacle (damn you Mikaela! why is it you again *raises fist*), or they are just AFK lol. (like you unhook them and they stay there not moving). I lost both games where this happened today (I only had like 5 games today).
That's obviously the most unfun part of the game atm for me as it is more common than usual I feel (guess cause the penalties were off for some times and people took advantage of that).
I unfortunately don't have the Spirit match recorded but these are my funny moments I guess?
Slug race
Watch "Dead by Daylight 2022.10.18 - 23.33.50.02_Trim" on Streamable.Feng Min not knowing about deep wound
Watch "Dead by Daylight 2022.10.20 - 20.52.30.02_Trim" on Streamable.Just Flashbang stuff (I probably blind more teammates and myself than killers)
Watch "Dead by Daylight 2022.10.20 - 20.52.30.02_Trim (2)" on Streamable.My first decent Flashbang save that actually accomplished something.
Watch "Dead by Daylight 2022.10.20 - 20.00.22.00_Trim" on Streamable.Blast Mine is always funny when you don't intend for it to go off and it does (I mean I did install it)
Watch "Dead by Daylight 2022.10.20 - 20.00.22.00_Trim (2)" on Streamable.And this will always not be funny.
Watch "Dead by Daylight 2022.10.20 - 20.00.22.00_Trim (3)" on Streamable.Seeing these I realized I need better camera work for Flashbang and I need to look more often behind me. I hope you also find some of these funny although they are not that event exclusive.
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They should just make camping more skill-based if that is even possible, so that bad killers can't benefit from it but good killers can.
That will solve a great many problems, like bad killers skipping the whole chasing part of the game.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
6/10 - the game is a gen rush meta which is a problem because it forces killers to use heavy gen regression, but because of all the heavy gen regression, then everyone has to run gen rush, but since everyone runs gen rush, then killers have to use heavy gen regression. It's a constant cycle of nonsense and no fun for anyone involved. Gen speeds need to be standardized where perks cannot increase or decrease their progress, have gens automatically regress, and remove the ability to kick. That way, it's far less of a roll of the die guessing game on gen speeds, and it makes room for BOTH sides to use more fun perks.
Also, the game would get an easy +1 score if they freaking make spinechill not pick up on undetectable, already.
How will I use Blast Mine then if killers don't kick gens?
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I also agree that it should not go on cooldown when it does not get completed.
I dunno about the duration of the hook being not on commission, but I like the buff about always being able to see hooks with Sabo on and not just when your teammate is being carried.
Definitely if 2 out of those 3 things got fixed I'd run it a lot more often tbh, as it is right now I feel like I get better value on other perks ans Sabo is too risky on solo.
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@Rovend said:
Never play in the morning, no weak killer is gonna get up early to greet you.
I think I've made that mistake😅
Related to that, I do notice that the killers I get in the evening can be more casual, but sometimes I also get rather strong killers but very rarely.
Other times of the day it's usually that I get at least one teammate who is new. So even if the killer is average for me or we are matched and could win, he can come away with a win cause we cannot co-ordinate and the newbie lacks experience and information.
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@Roaroftime said:
Completely random for me tbf
Maybe I'm biased cause the past few days evening games have been more bearable.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235014#Comment_3235014
This is exactly the problem with many players: they don't understand that against a killer, the goal is not to win in 1V1, but to make him lose enough time so that, during this time, the rest of the team can work on the generators.
Against a good nurse, it will be more complicated, but it is possible.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235015#Comment_3235015
The fact that you talk about auras is very interesting.
A nurse who plays with, for example, 4 auras perk will have to deal with generators that will be repaired extremely quickly, unless she generates a powerful snowball.
Because she will not have, in return, any perk of control of the generators which can hurt her very very much.
Aura reading is not a problem, as each perk that gives her information will deprive her of control over the generators or the health of the survivors.
Especially since the aura perks are not very violent, for the most part.
BBQ&Chili : it will give her information, but only if she is far from her target : by the time she gets close, the survivor will have had time to reach a safe loop.
Flood of rage: more dangerous, because the distance is less; survivors should be aware of the nurse's post-dehook movements. Pairing it with Make your choice is the worst combo a survivor can encounter.
I'm all ears up: very easily detectable; will force survivors to be very careful after a fast vault, but nothing impossible. Moreover, it may make them SIMULATE a fast vault, which can also hurt the nurse.
Lethal pursuer : either the nurse tp immediately at the beginning of the game, and thus, gives the survivors the information about the nature of the killer; or she cunningly goes towards them without tp, but thus, the survivors will have time to see her coming.
Nurse's calling: easily avoidable; a survivor just has to hide far from the terror ray to be safe.
The way I see it is that Nurse forgoes slow-gameplay because she can be in places pretty fast. As she doesn't have to walk to gens like other killers, it means she can choose to opt out of gen slowdown. If she gets to you while her aura reading perk is still revealing you then whatever structure you have hiding you, you can't mind-game because she can see you, unless you have enough distance. I don't understand how a loop is effective against her. I thought her whole deal was that she wasn't loopable? I only have 200 or so hours in the game so correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't see starstruck Nurse a lot admittedly, but from my point of view, all that aura reading kind of removes her weakness momentarily and if they're mechanically good that's all they need.
Obviously 4 perk gen-slowdown Nurse will probably also be obnoxious and it might even be the safest choice if you're not that confident and want to mitigate your mistakes whenever those happy.
It's just that I play solo and even when the Nurse is ok-ish, people still have a hard time against her from what I've seen.
It seems to me that starstruck Nurse would require a very experienced team to beat and solos would have to get lucky and the Nurse to commit many mistakes to win against her. Just one survivor who does not know how to play against Nurse is already a big deal against average Nurse. Can't imagine what it's like against one who's running arguably her best build and they can play her.
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I see it sometimes (although rarely) but it's not intentional probably cause we're all solos and it's not always guaranteed you'll find someone to heal you. Medkit is probably the most reliable item for solo.
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That sucks. I really like the Feng skin and would have loved for it to be in the store in the future for Iri shards.