JimbusCrimbus
JimbusCrimbus
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642539#Comment_3642539
Us vs Them isn't a good look anymore; it's not 2017 and you're not a poor Killer main victim.
Both sides are horrible to each other at times. This creates a vicious cycle where one side takes out their frustrations on a completely uninvolved player(s), which then causes those players to do the same.
Instead of blaming only Survivors, it would be more wise to call out all toxic behavior.
This thread is literally Us. vs. Them.
The fact is - it's generally accepted by the community all around for survivors to use what they want, play how they want, do all the stuff they can to complete their objective. That energy does not exist for killers. This thread is proof. Sadako being basically rolled back is proof. There are many instances of proof of this. There is no version of this where you're even remotely capable of proving otherwise. Period.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642560#Comment_3642560
So, I know you're not actually interested in a conversation, but just for the record for anyone else watching:
Wanting to, and needing to, are different things. Ultimate Weapon making it harder to do a thing you want to do for no real reason, as a secondary byproduct of a perk that the killer is running for a completely different reason, is an unnecessary annoyance you could easily remove without any problem.
The issue with your statement is, you say "it's not a matter of git gud when it counters your aura reading perks, especially while looping the killer". When it comes to looping the killer and aura reading, the counter to that is to not build a dependency on your aura reading. AKA, get good.
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If you need to see the killers aura while looping, it IS a skill issue, and it IS a matter of "get good". Period. This is not an argument. I am objectively correct.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639822#Comment_3639822
"an incentive would only work if the problem is also nerfed heavily"
which is exactly what needs to happen, make insanely good incentive for not tunneling and punish those who do
just because its probably not going to happen because the devs dont understand their game doesn't mean it wouldn't fix the problem
literally just give some decent at least gen regression/blockage/slowdown when mixing hooks and you have your incentive which would work well
but, if you dont agree with me, that's fine, I dont really feel like arguing with another internet stranger right now
What you're suggesting, punishing a killer for tunneling, is ridiculous. You have to make it less lucrative to do so. So, perhaps, for example, instead of whining about a new perk combo that rewards NOT tunneling, just learn counterplay and accept that it's okay for a combo to be strong. That type of thing.
To punish a killer for tunneling would be like punishing survivors for doing too many gens at once.
You guys need way too much handholding. Get good.
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@Frizouw said:
Hi,
I want to share my thoughts, experiences, what I think could be done about tunneling and I would like to know your opinion about that.
Lately, I played during the community tournament, which we couldn't tunnel, camp and only slug once per match, it was so much more fun, balanced than what we have right now, it was rewarding good plays for both side. Everyone actually needed to use a minimum of their brain cells, like using the only slug for the right moment, protect the right gens, make good skill shots, GOOD PLAYS!
If the killers were not respecting these rules, they were loosing a huge amount of points (negative points).
Today I came back to play with some friends and it was NOT fun, we had a Sadako that was purposely tunneling. I am not talking about like "tunneling because the survivor is asking for it" or "tunneling because it was the end game", she was waiting for the survivor to be unhook, she was ignoring us and was chasing the same surviver again until he died.
It happens more than once during the same night, different matches, different killers but same behavior. We could notice that at the end the killer won as much points as us and I felt like...there was no reason to NOT play like that.
I really do think they should work on something to make the game more like a chess and mind game and not a tunneling playground. Don't get me wrong, I know there is survivors who are bullies too, at least there is perks to counter Flashlight/Stun plays, nothing except decisive strike for survivors, that does not really change much because the tunneler just need to continue tunneling after the strike.
I don't know if there is any devs who are reading the forum for real or if what we are writing here is taken in consideration but: If your goto is "fun", I think you are loosing the track of what is "fun" by doing nothing about people who just want to be mean to others because they can and there is no penalty for doing it. Like they could continue to play like that, IF IT'S THEIR KIND OF FUN, but don't encourage that by giving as much points for just tunneling and makes the whole game miserable.
Even if people say: No one is playing for BP. I guarantee you, if the killer have 0 or close to nothing points because he played just to make everyone uninstall the game, at some point he will run out of add-ons, run out of offering, find the games boring and uninstall it or change his mindset.
I love this game, I want it to be more fun :( Please BHVR, do something <3
Thank you for reading me.
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EDIT:
Note, this post is not about:
- Winning or loosing
- Changing game mechanic
It's about incentify not tunneling by adjusting points in regards of the amount of gens left and the duration between 1st and 2nd hook of a survivor.
It's either:
- Removing points from tunneling at 5 gens inside x amount of seconds
- Giving more points to not tunnel
- Mix the two previous solutions.
Every action has a reaction. If survivors want a fun experience, they should match that energy and not be insufferably boring in 90% of games.
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@ChurchofPig said:
I personally think Billy can be fun to verse... when it's not every other game. Same problem I had with Wesker when he released. I have no problems with a killer being strong, I have a problem with feeling like I'm only facing them.
It's a new killer rework, of a beloved killer that was unjustly nerfed 4 years ago. And the killer happens to be VERY fun to play.
Besides - this is how killers feel EVERY GAME. Versing the same perks, every game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642415#Comment_3642415
Blindness counters a lot more perks than WoO, and most of them are the fun kind survivors tend to not run.
I speak from the perspective of both roles when I say the Blindness on Ultimate Weapon should go. I don't like having my fun niche builds disabled by a perk the killer's mostly running for info anyway, and I also don't think the killer benefits much in any direct way from the Blindness on Ultimate Weapon, it's just a potential upside you'll not be able to tell is doing anything.
Blindness counters nothing if you have a bit of map awareness. "Get good" is the solution.
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Survivors - also insuffable.
Predrop, predrop, predrop. Hump main building. Second chance, second chance, second chance. FTP/BU. Exhaustion etc etc.
Now you know how killers feel. Literally the entire survivor meta and playstyle has been this way for killers for years.
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@malloymk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642113#Comment_3642113
Yeah. The blindness is what is annoying.
If blindness is too hard for you to play around, that's a skill issue.
My goodness the post-pandemic WoO training wheels crutching crowd is mind boggling in their inability, or rather, refusal to do anything but what they saw their favorite content creator do.
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@RhysVMT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642042#Comment_3642042
you cannot be serious
It's literally counterplay. I know - taking off one of your many second chances to run something that COMPLETELY counters a perk you say is so frequent and such a huge problem would make too much sense.
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The game will end. You're not being taken hostage. Therefore, not bannable. They COULD give survivors a "die" option when slugged, but in order to do that, they'd have to change hatch so it didn't immediately spawn when that happened.
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Why isn't predropping bannable?
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Given how at peak times, the survivor queues are an eternity, and killers always have the bonus, go play killer then. If you don't want to do that, perhaps quit whining about anything remotely powerful and fun that killers have. You kind of need them to have a game to play.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638222#Comment_3638222
I can confirm that this is a bug. I've just checked and it looks like it's already in our system.
That's fine and all, but this was also in the PTB. How did this make it to live? It's such a simple bug to fix - and I'm not talking out of my backside. I've got 15 years experience with Unreal. UI elements are so easy to fix it's almost insulting when something so glary goes through QA.
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I counter your question with: Why do survivors do nothing but complain about versing boring things when they are, hands down, the most boring thing in the game to verse? :)
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Caring about MMR.
lol
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It's amazing what changing Dead Hard can do. (which is the most impactful change) It's almost as if survivors weren't as good as they thought they were, and using Dead Hard every game was actually a detriment to their gameplay, cause now they are cluelessly dying every game. Imagine that.
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It crashes the game. Literally. I own the whole cosmetic, and already had it equipped. Switched to Feng who had been wearing in on cosmetic loadout 2, and my game crashed. Happened to all my friendos who have it as well.
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@oxygen said:
Sadly player shaming over what they run, aka pure distilled scrub mentality, is pretty normalized.
I know how you feel, I despise it so much that while it would be fairly extreme I would genuinely support straight up banning people for doing it. Extremely rotten mindset with the potential end point of "They used <thing I don't like>, that means it's justified to be genuinely toxic to them in end game chat, as merely equipping that thing is inherently toxic so they cast the first stone :)" which I've already seen many times throughout the years.
Unfortunately, survivors don't get to complain about it. They were the ones who normalized it to begin with.
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072953#Comment_3072953
It's funny you assume everyone used DH...
I mean, when it was literally confirmed by the devs themselves that upwards of 80% of survivors used the perk, we kind of had to assume that yes, everyone ran it.
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So, hear me out. I went in both in solo queue and in a 4 man today. Obviously the 4 man was easier, but none of us used exhaustion perks or other second chances (cause we don't need them), and in solo queue I only really brought BT as a second chance, with Aftercare, Botany and Desperate Measures. This has been my solo queue build with a while. Solo queue felt largely the same as before.
What's really going on here is, survivors lost their ultra safe and free second chance perks (aka - dead hard), along with things like the ability to just nullify a killers 2 second gen kick with the tap of a button mid chase...and now what's showing is that many, many survivors aren't as good as they thought they were.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072454#Comment_3072454
Stealth killers could look to the side in order to fool spine chill. There are obviously obstacles in every map survivors cannot see over or around. Stealth killers capitalize on this.
If spine chill just lights up as soon as a stealth killer is in the area it defeats the entire point of stealth on top of removing any agency the killer player has. Your point is irrelevant.
I don't think you quite know what you're arguing. Reread, collect your thoughts, report back, sunshine.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
They literally removed any counterplay stealth killers had.
?
Survivors have 360 degree , 3rd person camera movement. No matter what they are doing. The counter is to open your eyes. Don't be lazy.
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My killer queues are instant :/
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I mean...the proof is in the pudding. Those that relied on Dead Hard? They don't know what to do now that it's gone, and it's hilarious. The amount of survivors i've gone against, and seen other people (like creators) verse, who go down like a sack of broken hammer handles, is hilarious.
It's a pretty good indicator that since chases are ending that much quicker without their E key, they weren't as good as they thought they were.
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There is no "use less meta perks". There is only changing the meta. There will always be a meta. In every game, ever. Meta's change, but people will always use meta.
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@tendyhands said:
Killer mains kept saying bbq was only good for the bloodpoints. Why are so many killers still running it then? Weird it's almost like being able to see where every other survivor is is useful info! But yeah no need for nerf or anything.
Nobody said it was only good for BP. But with just the aura reading, it's mid to low tier and situational at best, extremely counterable/predictable, and not worth the perk slot for many. I'd much rather rock Darkness Revealed.
It was never OP.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071028#Comment_3071028
They want extremely long games I'm going to disappoint and give them short ones instead
So no different than before this patch where all survivors wanted to do was E key to a pallet, extending the chase artificially with no skill of their own, just so the other 3 could do all the gens in 4-5 minutes?
So it really IS true. Survivors just want fast games. :D
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@Astrian said:
Downloading patch right now, but just by doing some napkin math, how does Legion not just completely dominate this meta?
Enduring + Spirit Fury + Thanatophobia + Jolt
Gens take base 10 seconds longer, Thana got buffed so at max stacks it will take 22% longer on top of that.
Jolt has no cooldown now so you can just keep smacking people all day and reduce gens without having to stop to kick them.
Healing Build doesn't work on Legion
Endurance Build doesn't work on Legion
With Enduring + Spirit Fury you can just eat every pallet in the game and because you kick them faster too, Pallets don't work vs Legion.
Stealth doesn't work on Legion
We haven't even talked about add-ons, Legion can apply broken, all sorts of nasty debuffs on top of just being a monster.
For real, TF are you supposed to do?
Idea: Learn to run tiles as survivor.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3069872#Comment_3069872
He's right so far.
Also, I rarely see survivors threatening to quit. It's actually killers that seem really prone to threatening to quit and not do anything.
No, he really isn't. Queues are always like this during this time of day.
And no - killers in the last year since SBMM was enabled have quit. Many of them have. This is why survivors were waiting upwards to 20+ minutes for queues since then. There's evidence to back that up.
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@dictep said:
First face camper. I’m done, thx devs
Bye.
If you want a game without campers, which is a legit tactic and part of the game, go play Minecraft.
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@Szakally said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3069839#Comment_3069839
Just wait 14 days and we'll see who was right. As I play 90% of my games solo, I go to a long break
You won't be right. Survivors threaten to leave every time something of theirs is nerfed. They never do. History proves my point.
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@Szakally said:
,,Survivors don't leave after update" - enjoy your q times ;)
You think this is a big "gotcha", but really this is normal during this time of day.
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@tester said:
Do you know how to use search function? There are a million threads already attempting to justify camping and you don't have a unique take.
Camping doesn't require justification. It's already justified. The only thing that requires justification is thinking killers shouldn't play to win.
Sit down.
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Again, survivors aren't going anywhere. There will be no mass exodus of survivors.
Why?
Cause DBD is the only game they are good at. They'd get their ######### rocked in a game that actually required some semblance of skill.
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Survivors aren't going anywhere.
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@egg_ said:
- bloodlust still easier to get when it should be entirely removed (or at least tiers above the first shouldn't exist), especially with chases being simplified by the basekit buffs already. Higher bloodlust tiers only reward bad killers into getting undeserved hits. Weren't the results of that weekend without bloodlust saying that there were no noticeable changes?
- still no mention on how this patch should help against camping & tunneling, even though according to how it was publicized on the stream and in the first dev note, it was supposed to focus on these 'tactics' too. As I said elsewhere, the 5 second BT won't help if a killer is hard on tunneling someone. And it doesn't help against camping, that is actually encouraged already by the basekit buffs + the longer generator times, as confirmed by @MandyTalk herself
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4N6RCBFTDPY4/screenshot-20220712-163529.png
- calm spirit not reverted?? No further changes to DS?
- stacking second chances = bad; stacking slowdowns = good, got it
But keep pretending these problems don't exist
Survivors second chances were ALWAYS far and beyond stronger than even a killers BEST slowdown stacks. Every single slowdown has a counter. Every. Single. One.
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I also think it's worth noting - Nurse has a..what...6% pick rate? And the lowest win rate out of all the killers according to the most recent data BHVR provided earlier this year?
Totally a huge problem, yep.
It's kind of like all those jackwagons who said "Dead hard is needed cause Nurse exists"...cause we all know they took off Dead Hard when Nurse was disabled for over a month...right? :)
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"The Nurse rework"
They've never said they're doing one. So there can't be an ETA.
Salty survivor mains demanding it doesn't mean it's necessary. Addon pass? Definitely. Her base kit is mostly fine.
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This is too hard for survivors to understand.
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@Pepsidot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3031009#Comment_3031009
And you're worried about Bubba when ranged nurse is in the game 🙃🤷♂️ ?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3031007#Comment_3031007
Complaining about already oppressive camping strategies being buffed, yes.
Oppressive camping strats counted COMPLETELY by map awareness, knowing where basement is, and not going down near basement.
Complaining about the single weakest killer in the game ain't it, chief.
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Yes. It's worse for one-stricks. Mostly Huntress mains.
Good. Expand your horizon, Huntress sheep. BAAAAAAAAAAA
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Complaining about Trapper.
kek.
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@bluedusef said:
your gonna see people running SPRINT BURST which is better then DH and increased PT users.
Better? Yes. More fair? Also yes.
People saying "but sprint burst tho" don't understand how silly they look, cause they think that's some sort of "gotcha". It really isn't. For a variety of reasons.
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Little known fact - when DS was changed years ago, it was originally 3 seconds of stun. It was then buffed to 5 seconds purely to compensate for Enduring (because back then, Enduring worked on ALL stuns, including DS). Literally, that was the reason given. Enduring was nerfed soon after to only apply to pallet stuns. DS was never put back to 3 seconds.
3 seconds is the correct amount of time.
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@Chusan said:
Would rather tunnel and make it 3 man so I will have breathing room.
That's called strategy.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Sure tunneling is fair. So is DH, but I'll bet you get pretty sick of seeing it don't you?
Tunneling has a counter. DH does not.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/322373/tunneling-is-fair
And then you wonder why everyone use borrowed time, dead hard, desicive strike and unbreakable. Tunneling is actually bad tactics if others just do gens and are free from pressure. Tunneling is only really viable if you do it fast and others don't work on gens and come to help. Personally I don't tunnel but I can hook sometimes someone twice in a row but im not that cruel to kill them immediatelly after that thought. Better stragedy is to tunnel 2 survivors same time but it's harder to pull off.
People have been running that nonsense since before tunneling was so wide-spread, and they'd be running it regardless because it's all the strongest #########, so why wouldn't they?
On the other hand, tunneling? Camping? Killers often HAVE TO in order to get some decent pressure. Why? BECAUSE of perks like the ones you mentioned.
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@Laurie268 said:
You know that killrates will skyrocket when DH gets nerfed (because it’s basically basekit) which means killer nerfs?
Kill rates will skyrocket, but not because killers need to be nerfed. Kill rates will skyrocket simply because 95% of survivors who run Dead Hard aren't as good as they think they are. Back when we had exhaustion addons for killers like Clown, we could literally prove that. They have no clue how to play without their 3rd health state/distance boost to the next pallet after being mindgamed.
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This thread is bait.