JimbusCrimbus
JimbusCrimbus
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@Brokenbones said:
Survivor shouldn't be made easier
It should be made less frustrating and that's what I think the whole point of a lot of these changes are. Abandon is there to quickly get out of losing games/curb bleedout matches.
Anti-camp isn't there to stop Killers from controlling unhooks and playing smart, it's there to actually punish facecamping itself which, again is a very frustrating thing to be on the end of.
I think that part about face camping needs to be stressed more. Cause there's so many people who will see a killer 20 feet from the hook and call it "face camping". That's literally not what that is, lol
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The word "boring" is meaningless in DBD now.
It's a veil for "requires abstract thought to verse". It shouldn't be taken seriously.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Killers need compensation in other areas, whether it’s basekit improvements, better chase mechanics, or meaningful perk reworks,
They've been doing exactly this in literally every patch for three years now.
The past year has had individual killer buffs, base kit, add-on reworks, and usually 2-3 killers per chapter or so.
Maps have been reworked, tile spawn logic changed, pallets significantly weakened, entire realms reworked, newer maps are smaller and have tons of dead zones.
Bloodlust had been buffed, anti gen tap completely eliminated gen tapping, hooks respawn. Healing was gutted specifically by request so people could play hit and run.
Just about every single class of killer perk has been buffed. (The one exception to this is literally the only reason for your post, and I'll finish with that)
They spent 3 years deliberately altering the game balance from basically every direction to increase kill rates, and successfully. They've even gotten it to the point where, overall, SWF and solo are escaping at roughly the same abysmally low rate.
So, the only reason for this post to even exist is the only thing they haven't given killers back: gen kick meta levels of regression. It's all some people want is complete control of the game. They've given a metric ton of information, chase, and utility. And all people want is infinite time (or currently, 10 minutes of holding the game hostage).
So no. Not every change in the game requires some kind of compensation buff.
"They've been doing this in every patch for 3 years"
As killer gen regression that rewards hooks is gutted for the last year. :)
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I've got nearly 14k hours. Most of that survivor. More than half, actually. I play killer a bit after a new one is released then that's it.
But go off.
And dismissing doesn't mean what you think it means. I addressed their point directly. And refuted it. Literally the opposite of dismissive. Disagreeing and dismissing are not the same thing. Chill. You won't get anywhere with me using buzzwords you don't know the meaning of.
And yes, there is more to survivor than just "making it easier", but if you read the OP, the outright mentioned adding things to make the game easier EVEN at the risk of making high skilled gameplay more miserable. So again, keep up.
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Ghost_Anonymous is THE Chucky gamer. They stream on Twitch and have a YT Channel as well.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925963#Comment_3925963
Totally looking forward to insanely long killer queues to the point i won't be playing the game for a good while….
That comes with any hyped killer release. The killers are the majority attraction in DBD. They always have been.
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FNAF is a killer DLC, with a majority killer audience.
The FNAF audience that isn't already playing DBD isn't coming to play survivor. They've done that already . Over and over. They don't care about running from Springtrap, dropping pallets, getting beamer saves. Most of them watch survivor gameplay and fall asleep.
They're coming to play Springtrap, because it's the first time that's ever been possible for them outside of a random 8 bit FNAF spinoff game. PLAYING Springtrap is what is attracting them. Not playing against them. Sure, at low MMR, killer is probably okay for the first few hours. Then you're MMR is in that bubble that will match you with pretty much anyone. That's when new killer players will start to feel stressed and anxious, and the FNAF audience won't just switch to survivor. They'll leave. If anything, it's the killer experience that needs to be given some help for the lower end of the MMR spectrum. Even, by your own logic, at the risk of making experienced killers more powerful with that help.
This entire post is just "make survivor even easier" with a completely incorrect context. Survivors have had a LOT of improvements. Anti camp, anti 3 gen, base kit this, base kit that, perk buffs etc. The handholding has gone far enough and there comes a time where survivors just need to get better instead of having their hand held to cross the proverbial street. The game is the easiest it's EVER been, and that INCLUDES survivors.
Survivors are NOT victims. They haven't been for quite some time. Downvote all you want - you know it's true. Nobody is coming for FNAF to play survivor.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
Oni will need huge changes, largely because of legion. If both of them are simply released to 2v8 unchanged, it will be the most absurdly broken combo ever.
2v8 is meant to be SUPER casual. Everything in 2v8 is broken. The killers, their powers (except Nemesis), the loops, the amount of pallets, the survivor classes etc.
It doesn't need to be overbalanced. People just need to learn to have fun.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882500#Comment_3882500
Sure, but faster bleedout doesn't lead to anything fun or enjoyable, it just ends a miserable game/situation faster. If you're looking to make a more enjoyable game, you'd want to do something that discourages unfun situations in the first place, and the OP is correctly pointing out that a faster bleedout does the opposite.
Survivor queues are already getting long. Base kit Unbreakable isn't going to make that any better. It's a bad idea, point blank period. Any other opinion is wrong and it's not up for debate. This is just copium trying to get another free 2nd chance to make easy mode even easier.
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I play about 65/35 in favor of survivor…only meta perk I run is adrenaline. I do fine. Skill issue. Next.
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Faster bleed out in ADDITION to incentivizing killers to hook again.
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Just want to say - a lot of misconception of slugging taking less skill or effort - that's just nonsense. The most skill based part of DBD isn't doing gens, it's not carrying survivors to hook, it's chases. For survivors it's the ability to hold a chase the longest, for killers it's the ability to end the chase the fastest. Slugging doesn't negate this. If anything, you have to have quick chases just to make it work.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878171#Comment_3878171
I would be fine with that. Have they actually sorted the random realm selection out? I read somewhere that they were changing it so the same realm doesn't get picked twice in a row or something? That would help a lot because the main reason I bring offerings is due to the random map not being so random, it always gives me something like wreckers, cold wind farm or McMillan when no offerings are in place. Rare I get Haddonfield or Gideon or dead dawg.
I main Trapper and I constantly get Ormond and Garden of Joy, like one after the other all the time. It's insane. But I did see they planned to adjust the map prevention to be a full on REALM prevention. Not sure when that will be implemented.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877938#Comment_3877938
Half the players in this game are console players that don't have access to chat. What is the solution for that?
You can't advertise that you're live and then expect only the positives of that.
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So is the fundamental use of this kind of test anyway?
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The first sentence alone is a total self report.
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You guys really need to stop over complicating the solution to map offerings. Just remove them, and free up space on the bloodweb for more BPS. Fixes the issue and has a better upside.
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He's fine.
Just as he is.
But he'll be nerfed cause survivors absolutely refuse to use adequate counterplay. If you can't just brainlessly run in circles around a pallet, if you have to use even 1/4 of a brain cell, killer OP need nerf. Consequently - he also doesn't need buffs, really. I might make it so pallets aren't so visible to survivors but that's about it.
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Literally just wake up before healing.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875507#Comment_3875507
I think you may be mistaken. Nowhere in my suggestion did I suggest an automatic pickup. I’m actually against a basekit BT.
So, here's the thing. I quoted the wrong post. And now I can't edit the original. I BHVR'd myself.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't think killer role agency has much to do with why VHS died, given how scuffed early DbD was in terms of the sheer amount of bullshit the survivor side had. I think the VHS team just completely mishandled the game (and the community) from the top down. The first and biggest mistake being that they were in closed beta for so damn long, never got out of early access, and never released a console version.
A lot of the other asyms died due to IP restrictions and/or unremarkable/one note gameplay that didn't lend well to the live service model.
If you honestly look at the state of VHS through it's ENTIRE lifetime, and see ALL the VHS streamers, with 1/40 of them queuing up for monster. Looking at 90% of them queuing up as Teen, swearing up and down that Monster is "fine and fun to play" but would rather wait nearly an HOUR in queue to play Teen…and you think it had nothing to do with the Monster role?
The evidence is screaming, and you're simply incorrect.
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I play both sides, and literally 60+% of that is survivor. The only one who's biased here is YOU. Again - you LITERALLY expressed that you didn't care if survivors could abuse something, killers should be punished unless they LET survivors get off the hook.
It's a PVP game. Sometimes you live, sometimes you die. It's called "DEAD" by Daylight. Not "Super Colorful Field of Sunflowers Babysitter Club by Daylight". If you're this pressed, perhaps this game isn't for you. You've literally just shown me that all this post was is a rage reaction to dying.
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875498#Comment_3875498
How will you ban them? For what? Having a streak of bad games? Good luck with that, they barely ban cheaters, let alone read whiny report tickets. They probably get thousands daily. Who will even report them? The killer with 20 hours game time that doesn't understand what is even happening?
SoloQ MMR is already eff'd. Every now and then I get exactly that type of killer. I've had killers that could't catch me at a cowtree longwall gym combo for the entire game.
I find it curious how they say "slugging happens quite frequently". I've been slugged once in like…40 games of survivor. And as soon as they slugged, they hooked everyone.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874781#Comment_3874781
Hello! I’m not the original poster but saw your question and I wanted to possibly discuss an idea for slugging with you. I want to preface by saying I am not of the opinion that slugging should be eradicated. I believe it needs to exist because it serves as a counter. Slugging is sometimes necessary when flashlights or sabo is in play. It’s a useful and important tool, but in my opinion just like any other tool in the game, it can be “abused” so to speak.
I think most people that want to discuss possible changes to slugging in good faith come to an agreement that the kind of slugging that’s problematic is full team slugs with intention of bleeding out. I have a suggestion that I think would make slugging like this still possible but more risky, and it doesn’t involve a base-kit UB. Making the slug proximity based.
For example, the Anti-Face Camp, it’s still possible to camp with it only you can’t blatantly be in the face, and the closer you get to the hooked survivor the faster the bar speeds up, and if other survivors are in proximity that bar progresses much slower. What if we take that same concept and put it to slugs (only reverse)? When a killer slugs a survivor, there is a radius around the slug. If the killer remains in that radius— nothing changes. This will allow a killer to defend a slug from a potential save. But if the killer leaves that radius of the slugged survivor, the survivors recovery bar speeds up. The farther away the killer gets, the faster the recovery bar speed fills. Now they will still need someone to pick them up at the end, it does not grant an automatic pick up like UB. But it makes for leaving the slug unattended more of a risk and discourages 4team slugging. If all the survivors are in the same place and happen to get slugged, this also doesn’t affect the killer. Because if one slug is near another the recovery bar will proceed as normal with no speed buff, so it is still a punishable mistake.
I believe this allows slugging to still remain as an important counter while discouraging full team slugging. Again, still possible but more risky, and I don’t believe is abusable because the killer is still in control of deciding to leave the slug or not. Much like the Anti-Face Camp, the killers proximity will determine if it ever comes into play, and does not work if another survivor is in the same radius.
Thoughts?
No base kit/automatic pickups. Survivors DO NOT NEED another base kit second chance. Behavior has TRIED this and it was an awful idea. The only objectively correct solution is a give up/faster bleedout. That's literally it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875476#Comment_3875476
The thing is, Killer behavior has way more impact than Survivor behavior. A Survivor cannot really do the same as a Killer. The "best" the Survivors can do which compares to slugging until bleedout is to wait at the Exit Gates. But the Killer can do something against it.
Everything else is just nothing which impacts the Killer that much. The Killer on the other hand can take away the possibility for the Survivors to play the game - either by slugging them or, if they dont care about being banned, by bodyblocking. The Survivor cannot do that.
Killer Toxicity is just more impactful.
That's factually false. "Way more impact". That's just a roundabout excuse to be able to say "it's okay for survivors but not for killer". You no longer get the privilege of talking to me. I prefer not to waste my time on someone with such a god awful attitude and mindset.
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@shadow_V said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875471#Comment_3875471
Slugging and tunneling stopping the survivor from doing anything is toxic but it still isn't fixed is it my point is LEAVE the hook so the survivor can get the unhook that's all you have to do if their abusing it as a fair killer you SHOULDN'T stop me from getting an unhook therefore just leave and let them get it I've called out how killers abuse hex third seal the killer has slugged my whole team twice before with that hex I know it can be broken but I LOOKED for it couldn't find it
No. Slugging and tunneling aren't toxic. They are part of the game. They are literal mechanics in the game. You can not LIKE it, and that's fine. That doesn't make them toxic. Toxic is when people blame everyone but themselves.
There is no such thing as a "fair" killer. It's a PvP game. There are no rules that say don't proxy camp, don't slug, don't tunnel. The killers job is to KILL the survivors. Not babysit them. You're not entitled to anything except the opportunity to survive, which you were given when you queued up. It's not up to the killer to give that to you.
Are you going to slowdown on gens to make it more fun for the killer? Are you going to stop saboing hooks to let them get their hooks on survivors? It's only fair to LET them play the game, right? You see how ridiculous that sounds?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872118#Comment_3872118
The ability to slug players for 4 minutes is not a necessary mechanic for the health of DbD. I can not recall a time I was forced to do this within the last 3 or 4 years. The only people doing this are griefers and trolls.
This is not gameplay depth. It's a bad legacy mechanic. If a player can't win with hooks, they're bad.
I will agree on the first point - but the answer is a shorter bleed out time, and ONLY a shorter bleed out time. Not a base kit 2nd chance, which is where people automatically try to take these things.
Let's also not pretend that the OP didn't post screenshots of, to be honest, 4 survivors being slugged with absolutely ZERO context. All we know is that it was pretty late in the game. What happened during that game? How did the survivors play? Were the SURVIVORS being boring? (yes, survivors can be boring). Was the killer just matching that energy? It's really easy to create a convenient narrative to make yourself look like a victim when you remove ALL context and events leading up to the pictures posted.
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Let's not pretend that the give up epidemic started because of slugging. THAT is a separate issue that's been a thing for a year. The slugging meta is much more recent. All you're doing is coping.
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The correct statement is "player behavior". It's not just killers.
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@shadow_V said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875461#Comment_3875461
No need to be an ass I have just as a right to speak as anyone else if I come up with an idea that might help this game your first thought is to come trash it what does that say about you as a person life is not all about trolling ya know
I'm not being anything. You openly acknowledge survivors can abuse it, which also means they can completely prevent it themselves, and STILL say it's something the killer should be punished for. It's ridiculous, and I stand by that. If I really wanted to be an "ass", I would have called out how that first post was nearly impossible to read.
The fact is, this does NOT help the game. It will just create a more toxic game, which isn't something that is needed.
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This is the most ridiculous thing I have read on these forums in a LONG time.
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Yeah…Toba is an accessibility nightmare. It's also sensory overload.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863282#Comment_3863282
That's completely mistaken. An adrenaline play is playing DbD as intended. What would be closer to slugging for the 4K would be if BHVR extended the EGC to four minutes and disabled the Killer's ability to attack survivors as soon as two survivors got out so the remaining survivors could then get a few extra BP and possibly pip by flashlighting and pallet stunning the Killer. It would be even closer if the Killer would get a movement debuff so they could only move at crawling speed. Then the conditions would approximate what the survivor being bled out for the 4K has as their playing conditions.
It's pretty obvious that BHVR doesn't want that as BHVR put in the Hatch mechanic so the last survivor has something to try to do and introduced the EGC to stop hatch standoffs. As well, any even half intelligent analysis would recognize that a player doing nothing for four minutes isn't healthy, enjoyable gameplay. If that is what someone is purporting then we could introduce a mechanic where after the survivors clearly win the Killer could be rendered helpless so the one or two remaining survivors could farm BP and pips for four minutes. That would be the closest functionally to what the survivor being bled out experiences.
Slugging is also an intended mechanic. That's why it's in the game.
Slugging for the 4k is also heavily incentivized. Especially by certain tome challenges. Making it intended.
Just because survivors don't like it, it doesn't mean it's not intended.
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There's literally no reason to ever go there as killer. The gen is realistically impossible to defend. Let them have the gen and ignore that room. Same applies to other maps, such as Dead Dawg main building, Disturbed Ward main building etc etc.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863337#Comment_3863337
See you underestimate the power of each survivor running faster than the killer each chase. That little speed boost can easily cost 20-30 seconds across each survivor. The time wasted by them is tremendous value.
Wasn't it Hens who said the reason STB is essentially broken OP is because things like exhaustion exist to make the exposed downside meaningless? I hate to be that guy, but when a dude is right, he's right.
If exhaustion had an earning requirement (and no, "vault pallet/window" isn't earning anything), they'd be in a better spot.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863309#Comment_3863309
It couldn’t have been that neutral; you’ve called me brother twice now. That is a male pronoun, correct?
FWIW, nothing on my profile would identify my gender. BHVR doesn’t have the option to include gender anywhere on our profiles and it isn’t something that comes up in regular conversation here. You assumed I’m a man, for whatever reason, when you made those condescending remarks.
"Lil bro" isn't meant to point out gender. It's me not taking anything you say seriously. It's a fairly common comment to make. Sorry you didn't understand.
But yes, I don't take you seriously. You keep telling me I'm wrong despite being, what I can only assume is, logically incapable of telling me why. So have a good day. I'll take that fat W. GG.
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I'm sure glad we got that out of the way. Cause I totally could have known that with your private profile, and completely neutral name/profile picture.
That wasn't the gotcha you think it was, now, kindly tell me why I'm wrong? Cause honestly, it just seems like you're trolling at this point, and you're doing an awful job.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863303#Comment_3863303
I took a page from your book. And you’re still wrong.
I've never once said "wrong" without explaining it.
But kindly, tell me why I'm wrong, ll bro. :)
Rhetorical question. We both know you can't.
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You like to say "Wrong" without explaining why. Which tells me you're incapable of doing so. So keep quiet unless you want to elaborate, okay little bro?
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Slugging for the 4k only becomes a problem if the survivor to GOT slugged to begin with crawls to another continent making sure they can't be found.
Slugging for the 4k is functionally no different than coordinating an adrenaline play with your teammate.
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@Shroompy said:
Dramaturgy if used correctly is like OG Dead Hard and Finesse allows you to greed a loop even more.
Been saying this from the start, Dramaturgy is slept on, HARD.
It's not really greeding if you have a perk that does it for you. Greeding is a skill, not a perk.
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Tunneling isn't toxic. It's a legitimate and valid playstyle. It's no different that committing to a generator in the killers face.
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Deal with it. All not tunneling gets you is a fat 3 gens done with all the handholding and second chances survivors run every game. Perhaps we need to practice a bit of positive reinforcement and give killers a reason NOT to tunnel. Punishing ain't it. Nor is whining about it.
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Just run counterforce. Thrill isn't bugged.
Also - can we killswitch Exhaustion perks too? They provide the same tangible benefit to survivors that Thrill does to killers. Wasting time without any real skill. Except Thrill can be removed.
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It's more so spite on the survivors part. 99% of the time when this happens, the survivor is dead to rights, and the game is already over. All you're doing is being a child.
@Crowman said:
The tombstone addons shouldn't exist the way they currently do, but no one is a bad sport for not wanting to give their opponent free kills.
Yet survivors expect killers to give them free chances by not tunneling etc.
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@Mechanix82 said:
BHVR can you please do something fun with this perk???? Completely countering an item is not a good thing. Why not make it if you flashlight the killer you get exposed for 20 seconds or your exhausted something that is intresting beside oh the brought a perk so your item is no longer able to be used.
Sure. Just as soon as they unbuff flashlights to require timing/skill again, and give flashbangs actual counterplay.
Real talk - lightborn is fine. Let's look at the long list of things survivors have that have zero counterplay before we nerf even more counterplay from killers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837098#Comment_3837098
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839467#Comment_3839467
Strange takes.
That queue times were horrible during the first version of 2v8 (they are still really bad, waited 20 minutes for one game as Killer), was because the Survivor experience was bad. So the logical step is to improve the Survivor experience.
Removing any methods to make a safe boils down Survivor gameplay to just Chases (which can be ended quickly if Killers decide to double team the Survivor) and sitting on Gens. With that, survivor gameplay got more attractive.
I see you still live on these forums.
And no, not strange takes. I'm right. Period.
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@TheArbiter said:
Flashlight saves, and Pallet Saves are why the change was made
"More second chances are why the change was made"
Because as typical, BHVR's answer to making the game more fun for survivors is to make it LESS fun for killers. Not quite sure how they feel that's the best route, but I can assure them they are wrong.
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No. They will either eat the penalty or they will play the game.