JimbusCrimbus
JimbusCrimbus
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The fact is, and this is undeniable, and indisputable - ALL the buffs survivors got, gens should have been increased to 10. They should have been 10 to begin with. Everything was doubled, except for the survivors objective. Not even close to fair.
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@GeneralV said:
Sometimes that is true, but at the end it is up to the killer to choose what to do.
And they aren't to blame when they choose to take advantage of bad survivor plays. All your implying is they should choose something else and trying to shift the blame.
This is why the base kit unbreakable thing people keep asking for is such a god awful idea. Because survivors who get slugged, 99% of the time, are in that situation because THEY SCREWED UP. Rewarding them for it with a base kit second chance is asinine. The objectively correct solution would be a toggle for a faster bleedout, or a give up option. But even then, this could be abused, and you'd need to adjust the hatch mechanic to prevent this.
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It's like that because 2v8 is fun. Especially as killer. If they could make killer that much fun in 1v4, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. Additionally, this rendition of 2v8 has so many new handholds for survivors, I predict it won't be nearly as fun/popular over it's runtime for killers. Behavior has this problem where they think in order for it to be more fun for survivors, it has to be less fun for killers. Killers being punished for getting cages in the new 2v8 proves that. That's such a hilariously awful decision, it's actually borderline offensive.
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It's in the killers favor for a good reason actually. Validation, or "anti lag", can only favor one side in a case like this with how it works. It favors the killer because, unfortunately, and as difficult as it is to here, it's less detrimental to the survivor to get screwed over by ping/lag than it is the killer. You may disagree with that, because you're only thinkin of yourself - but it's not a 1v1 game. It's a 4v1 game.
And don't forget, validation can have the opposite effect. It can deny the killer a hit they should have gotten just as often.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828736#Comment_3828736
But if people want to play as sweaty as possible, then they should not choose the event queue.
The whole point of choosing the event queue is to interact with the event. Sweating during an event just makes the game miserable for everyone involved.
Or they can do what they want.
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This overcomplicates the solution, isn't a solution, and also doesn't address WHY killers tunnel in the first place.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829472#Comment_3829472
Don't cut yourself on that sarcastic edge.
No sarcasm. Survivor is easy mode. Point blank period.
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Survivor is literally easy mode.
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Can anyone tell me why survivors always need exhaustion perks?
Can anyone tell me why survivors always need 2nd chances?
Can anyone tell me why survivors always run Windows of Predropportunity?
None of these are fun to verse. Aura reading on the other hand only means you die if you're a bad survivor. Good survivors that actually LIKE to be chased LOVE aura reading killers.
Hell, back in the day I used to run OLD Object of Obsession, WAY back when the killer could see you CONSTANTLY. I WANTED the killer to know where I was. Like, get better at chase and aura reading isn't going to be a hinderance.
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@ErebusSurge said:
I’d scrap bleed outs.. if a survivor crawls away and you can’t find them, time runs out you lose the game.. survivors get rewarded for not being found..
No one would want that, killers won’t want their time wasted looking for a needle in a haystack, survivors don’t want to go and hide in a corner somewhere waiting for the game to end.
so even though it’s in the game, no one would want to have it happen.I do it now occasionally when I’ve been slugged or tunneled with every aura perk going.. I’ll get a message at the end asking why I didn’t just let them kill me..
the game has forgotten the role of survivor is to try and survive.. it’s not a death simulator..
had the sweatiest xenimorph today who just camped every hook.. made no effort to do anything but protect the one survivor on a hook.. it’s dull.. boring.. pointless.. can’t be fun for killers too..
The role of killer is to kill, not to be a babysitter simulator. It's literally survive or die.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
This issue has gotten 10x worse this past patch, because for some reason the devs think that killers need moris basekit. Now every match is just killers slugging people out instead of hooking so they can get the mori.
There needs to be a base mechanic to address this. Funnily enough, they were going to do this alongside the original basekit mori, but forum killers complained and complained and so the devs had to roll it back. Typical.
Come on, devs.
People complained because "base kit second chance" isn't the answer. At the end of the day, slugged or not, it's your own fault for putting yourself in that position. You're there because YOU screwed up.
A more FAIR solution that doesn't just reward you for messing up is a faster bleed out or give up mechanic after X time being slugged.
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I play to win. I tunnel, I proxy camp, and I use all the tools provided to me in order to accomplish this. I don't concern myself with my opponents fun. It's not that I don't care. I just don't concern myself with it. There's a difference. I play survivor with the same attitude. I play for the W.
I've learned in all 13,000+ hours of my game time, that no survivor is going into any game with the mindset of "I should make sure the killer has fun". It just doesn't happen. They run the strongest stuff, do the most boring stuff, run the most boring safe loops over and over etc. The energy survivors expect from killers is never matched the other way around. There's no reason to concern myself with anything other than my own enjoyment. That's all that really matters to me, and it's made me enjoy the game more not pressuring myself with other peoples fun because "omg boring not fun etc etc etc".
I do this because…honestly, everyone should. Play how you want, if you lose, take the L. It's a video game.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823986#Comment_3823986
So you're now saying it is possible to have more than a 60% win percentage without tunnelling and camping, tunnelling and camping is not necessary in public matches and gives a disproportionate advantage to the Killer but you would rather tunnel and camp out of rancor and spite because some survivors annoy you?
If so, that's at least a far more honest statement than most of the statements I've seen defending tunnelling.
I never said it wasn't. If you need to manufacture things I never said, I've proven my point.
-mic drop-
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823873#Comment_3823873
Right. So it's a nerf to tunnelling to compensate for the gen time increase's buff to tunnelling.
Those two things are not the same. We're talking about the hook timer of one survivor 99% of the time. vs. 3 generators. 25% of the killers objective vs. 60% of the survivors objective. The math isn't equal.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823977#Comment_3823977
I really dislike this statement. They're both terrible for the same reason - you're being forced to wait an excessive amount of time in a game that's already over because the other players are preventing you from moving next via obviously unintentional gameplay, and you have no power to exit save forfeiting everything you've already earned.
"It ends eventually" has never made anything okay in this game. There's a timer for the match to end and the survivors to automatically get sacrificed. That doesn't mean two Claudettes moving between Dead Dawg corner bushes for 50 minutes is engaging gameplay. It doesn't mean the killer bleeding out survivors for no other reason than to be a dick is okay either, any more than it was okay for survivors to tell the killer "just slug them to death" when Boil Over had unhookable zones on half the maps. Forced time-wasting gameplay sucks for everyone, always, and should be reduced wherever possible.
One side's problems don't invalidate the other's, and it's healthy for the game to address problems on both sides, not just the side you favor or believe suffers more.
Dislike it all you want. The devs have literally said the same thing. You have nothing to combat that with. Is it boring? Yes. Is it unfun? Yes. Of course. But it's NOT holding the game hostage. Which is what I said. So pick your battles. This ain't it.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823982#Comment_3823982
Typically ad hominem attacks such as this are used by one side when their arguments have been so thoroughly debunked that there is nothing left. If you feel it's so necessary than why is it possible to get a higher than 60% win rate in public matches without tunnelling and camping?
It's not an ad hominem attack to say you don't really have a full understanding, or are too new to understand. Which is what I'm saying. Trying to frame it as an attack isn't going to work with me. You'll have to do better than that, friend.
And I haven't said it isn't POSSIBLE. But survivors aren't going out of their way and put themselves at a disadvantage to stop themselves from doing things that annoy/bore killers. There's no reason to do anything but match that energy. Period. End of story.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823974#Comment_3823974
It's certainly better evidence than what you've provided which is essentially just "Because I said so" even when presented with video evidence to the contrary. The kill rates were lower in January 2023 than they are now. Are you implying that even though kill rates have gone up it's somehow harder for Killers now than when kill rates were lower?
I have no issues with recording a series of games now to prove my point but it'll take a few weeks to get 100 games so a proper sample size can be reached.
Your own games are anecdotal evidence. Hens has done videos on this, Otz has done videos on this, many many more. It's not about their audience. It's about their experience level and general knowledge. Which is something you seem to lack in terms of DBD if your retort is the standard, typical and tired "lol if u camp n tunnel ur bad".
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That's not even a valid comparison.
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@Roaroftime said:
Ok deal if something is done about killers taking the game hostage slugging all 4 survs till they bleed out also
That's not taking the game hostage. There's a bleedout timer. Move on. Next.
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"Some old games"
Anecdotal evidence (aka, your own personal experience) isn't real evidence.
I rest my case.
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823955#Comment_3823955
Why does my build have to surround the tunneling but they get to play however the want and use whatever perks they want AND they still nerf my general game play like smaller loops and closer hooks?
Why do killer builds on any killer that isn't in the top 5 killers have to revolve around countering annoying things survivors have/do, such as exhaustion, or splitting on gens instead of running the chase perks they want to run because they are more interactive, but can't run them because predropping renders almost all of them nearly useless?
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@DeBecker said:
So then enlighten us on what survivor strategies are there that have the exact same effects as those on killer?
That's a false argument. Both roles are essentially a different game. Killers and survivors could have a perk that, at it's basic function, does the EXACT same thing, but the in game function for that perk would be completely different on each side.
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Just because they aren't free second chances, doesn't mean they don't have great stuff. Expand your mind, and your skill set.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823877#Comment_3823877
WOO has nothing to do with map sense. Gosh, how often will we still see this nonsense?
If you don't think showing you, constantly with no cooldown, where every vault and pallet are, has nothing to do with map sense, sadly, it's you who doesn't understand map sense. Case and point to my original statement.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823939#Comment_3823939
Or if you want to sweat, dont queue up in Event Mode. You wont have the Haunts, but you can sweat all you like.
But sadly we both are forced to play this mode to do the Tomes.
It's not sweating. It's literally just playing the game. Every bit as survivors running in circles with their exhaustion perk and Windows of Predropportunity is just playing the game. Period. You have nothing to refute that with.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823917#Comment_3823917
The Haunts have 0 depths when it comes to gameplay. Just hug the Survivor, release a Haunt, press M1. I dont really see how this can be defended.
Just like survivors say to killers when they complain about stuff they find boring or unfun, or busted: "Stop taking it so seriously, it's just game".
That's how I defend it. Queue up in non-event mode.
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Do you have any evidence to support this?
Cause with all the experiments that have been done recently by established members of the DBD community, and non established members personal accounts, statistically real tunneling only happens about 1/20 games, and that's on a bad day. What's likely going on, and what it almost always is, is that you were tunneled once or twice, and it just stuck with you for longer. The bad experiences weigh harder than the good ones.
If what you're saying is actually true and not the exaggeration I suspect it to be, and this isn't a consistent across the board, as well as all the experimentation that has been done, and data collected, perhaps it's time to look at doing some self reflection, and also look at the state of the game from a killer standpoint.
Also, comparing built in CYPRESS MORI'S that can only be used when there's only one survivor left to a build in DS is insanely laughable.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823892#Comment_3823892
It's more appropriate to say that tunnelling and camping increase the Killer's chance disproportionately in comparison to the effort put in and have a much lower skill floor than what is needed to counter tunnelling. That's what your calling it a winning strategy is admitting as there is no need to tunnel and camp in public matches unless your skill as a Killer is subpar in comparison to the survivors you're against and you need to tunnel and camp or a 60% win percentage is just not enough for you (which would be a you problem in that case). It's not difficult to get win streaks and a good win percentage without tunnelling and camping in public matches as long as you avoid tunnelling and camping to begin with.
Tunnelling and camping wasn't as much as a pressing issue in the past as the Survivor role had a lot of busted stuff to even it out as well. However, Survivor doesn't have any busted stuff now while Killer still has access to low skill floor strategies that require a much higher level of skill and coordination to counter than implement. Tunnelling throws the odds to win in one side's favour even more than the old 'press E to outplay' pre 6.1 DH and should, in my opinion, be treated with even more derision. It's a relic that should be thrown on the garbage heap along with infinite loops and pre 6.1 DH.
That's just laughable. The fact is, camping and tunneling only works if the survivors are already mediocre. The only survivors it really hurts are mid survivors who usually get carried by their S tier perks.
The sad truth of the matter is, I get hit with anti tunnel FAR more when I'm NOT tunneling than when I AM tunneling. Survivors use their "anti tunnel" in an offensive manner. So they really don't get to complain when killers don't pander. If you're going to get hit with this stuff anyway, may as well just tunnel anyway.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, it is nuts and cheap. But the same happened with the Anniversary Event.
Then before that during the Halloween event last year, it was the reverse. The event was notiously survivor sided. Even the most survivor sided names in the community admitted this.
It doesn't feel good to have something so egregiously one-sided not in your favor, does it?
Except in this event, it's not that way. Haunts are pretty powerful, especially if you never look behind you and just hold W and run straight to the nearest pallet or vault (excessive WoO uses will do that to you), but the smoke bombs are also powerful, and a lot of fun to use. Top that with the fact that there is absolutely no reason for the killer to go to the void most times (which is doubly true cause I think I've only run into a few killers actually using their haunts, and I've played this mode exclusively survivor aside from the one killer only challenge). It's straight up a waste of time unless you're already ahead.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823493#Comment_3823493
I did not define fun by bloodpoints. I defined fun by "getting a chance to engage in as wide a range of the available gameplay mechanics as possible." I did not mention bloodpoints at any point in this thread until just now. I find it very disrespectful towards me that you have claimed arguments that I did not make.
At the end of the day - asking killers not to do certain things because it's "not fun for you" is silly, and yes, it's entitled.
Killers are expected to not do certain things as hand outs to provide a fun game for their opponents. That energy has not, and will not, ever, be reciprocated. What's in it for killers following a fake rulebook? Not getting told to hurt ourselves in the end game chat? Cause with the amount of 2nd chance perks and base kit 2nd chances being thrown in killers faces, the amount of unfun maps, unfun loops, boring predropping, artificial chase extenders etc etc, I could go on, survivors give absolutely zero reason for killers to pander to nonsense survivor rules.
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The fact is, you can love it or you can hate it, proxy camping and tunneling is a winning strategy. Spreading hooks across survivors, not tunneling, is not a winning strategy. If it works, it's because the survivors are bad. Even Hens figured this out, and admitted it when it did a video where he did a 10 game win streak as Trapper without camping or tunneling. He FULLY admitted in the comments for the video that the survivors he faced were SIGNIFICANTLY less skilled than he was, after other people in the comments called it out. Otherwise, like it or not, he would have been bodied.
"Don't tunnel, don't camp, don't slug" - these are all imaginary rules. They aren't real, and you need to let go of them. It can't only be okay for survivors to use strong stuff, use effective strategies to try and win.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823318#Comment_3823318
It can help survivors extend the chase.
Just let survivors have SOMETHING that helps them. Most of their perks got nerfed to the ground.Survivors have plenty of things. But permanent map sense contained in a perk completely for free is too much.
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Pain Res and Pop have been nerfed. Many times.
The thing is, pain res and pop have limited uses, and they have to be earned. In Pop's case, you have to chase, hit, chase more, hit again, pick up, carry survivor to hook, go ALL the way to the gen, kick the gen. Then and only then do you have any value from the perk. Pain Res doesn't require you to walk to the gen, but Scourge spawns are so finicky you may never get to use it.
Windows of Opportunity has no earning requirement, it just gives you one of the most powerful pieces of information a survivor can have, that being map sense, for free; and it's always there.
Your comparison makes zero sense.
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And yet, it's the most used survivor perk in the game.
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@vBlossom_ said:
I'm already busy memorizing all the layouts
Is it really that hard?
Woo just shows you pallets that weren't used.
That's it.
That's why it ends up being used in competitive 1v1s. To show all the pallets that your non existent teammates used.
Seriously though - it's not that simple. WoO isn't just to show which pallets have been used. It's to tell you where to go. It's map sense in a perk. The fact that you can tell when someone has it vs someone who doesn't, given that the people who run it BEELINE from pallet to pallet and, more times than not, predrop that same pallet, is problematic. Perks shouldn't play the game for you, and WoO is, for all intents and purposes, autopilot.
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So, that feeling you get with this killer power during the event - this is what killers feel like when a survivor just runs up to a pallet, presses "E" for dead hard, and creates a lose-lose situation for the killer. Cause either the killer hits their endurance, or waits it out and sees the pallet get dropped.
Food for thought. It doesn't feel good.
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Gens go fast. Survivors are bringing strong stuff. Strong medkits, toolboxes, and perks. Gen stall perks have been consistently nerfed across the board to the point where it only really hurts killers that are…not strong already. So people are just playing strong killers. Nurse, Blight, Billy, Chucky etc. It's more fun and less stressful.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
There's definitely been an uptick recently, but I wouldn't say it's meta by any stretch.
And it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
- It's a dick move.
- It's simply not that effective, especially if it were to become widespread and the surv meta shifts to UB/Soul Guard/Boon: Exponential. I've been running soul guard more recently as it seems Hexes are all the rage atm.
Slugging is no more a dick move than leaving your teammate on the hook to commit to a generator.
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It's a few seconds. Holy moly.
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@adaw0ng said:
Both sides complain about the other one no matter what. Just stop bothering about it and play your game how you want since you paid for it. Simple as that.
Both sides complain. Only one sided has a set of "rules" that are systematically pushed and enforced on a community-wide scale. It's not about complaining.
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It's funny that all you ever hear with killers is "counterplay this" or "no counterplay that". Meanwhile, exhaustion perks for survivor are some of the most annoying and boring perks to verse as killer, have zero counterplay outside of a perk (and even then, perks designed to combat exhaustion are incredibly weak because having a good counter to survivors powerful perks is "BoRiNg"), and somehow this is considered "fine".
Exhaustion perks on the survivor side wouldn't NEED counterplay like Blood Echo or Mindbreaker for example, if they actually had to be earned.
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@Xernoton said:
No. I think exhaustion is perfectly fine as is. Whether or not exhaustion perks could use a change is debatable.
I for example would quite like it if there was a perk that allowed one survivor to take another's exhaustion on themself. Could be really good against a tunneling killer but might end up getting abused by SWFs.
It's not debatable. It's a free time waster, and chase extender, with no earning requirement. It needs an earning requirement.
The fact that in a lot of cases, experiments have shown that survivors without exhaustion are not only better loopers overall with better pathing, but in turn they have shorter chases, speaks for itself.
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@nodforkiss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823780#Comment_3823780
woah never saw something this true in dbd forums, its heart warming to see there are actual dbd players exist
13,000 hours. Played since day one of the beta. Trapper main (I hate myself, that's why). I've been around long enough to have my legacy lost due to the save game bug.
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@MaddieMage said:
No I don’t think they need to make exhaustion further benefit the killer more than it already does.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while.
@Huge_Bush said:
No, Exhaustion is fine as is. Don’t need the Devs messing up something that doesn’t need fixing.
No, it really isn't. Exhaustion needs an earning requirement for as powerful as it is. It, without any skill on the survvors part, artificially extends chases. The community is so fixated on killers, killer perks, killer playstyles that are "unfun" or "boring" to verse. The fact is, Exhaustion is unfun and boring to verse. You're not being outplayed with exhaustion. You're being outperked. Meanwhile all the most powerful killer perks, for the most part, either have a hard counter without the need for a perk, can be outplayed by skill, or require the killer to actually do something to earn it. Exhaustion has none of these traits.
Gens go too fast and they are steadily nerfing gen stall perks because they take "very little effort to earn" (as in, downing and hooking a survivor in most cases). Exhaustion takes no effort. It just exists (with the exception of things like Smash Hit or Head On of course), complete for free. It's not fun to verse, it doesn't feel fair, and often times, you feel like the survivor is being rewarded for making a pathing error. If a killer makes a mistake, half the time it could cost them the game, especially if they play by the phony survivor rule book. If a survivor makes a mistake, 99% of the time, they have a perk or base kit mechanic to bail them out.
The devs need to start looking at things that are unfun to verse for killers, and maybe things like tunneling and slugging wouldn't be such an issue. It's a chain of causation.
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@syain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787314#Comment_3787314
Curious. Why reshade and not NVIDIA filters which were officially supported by the game until today given they serve the same purpose?
That is false. Reshade/Nvidia were never OFFICIALLY supported by DBD. They were always "use at your own risk".
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You should be able to see people in bat form. Straight up. It's not a lethal ability. Either that or the teleport should be map wide, with less of a cooldown so you can at least use it for better mobility.
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Holy skill issue, batman
This isn't a matter of killers being an issue. This is a matter of you just not being that good, and you need to admit that to yourself.
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@LadyOwO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424968/when-is-slugging-not-seen-as-toxic
Depends on the situation tbh. If you start slugging at 5 gens while bringing Thanatophobia, Knock Out, etc and proceed to let everyone bleed out and not bother hooking them then yeah you're being a dickhead. Only that specific scenario is it most definitely toxic
That's silly.
All those things you mentioned are in the game, and are DESIGNED that way. Is it fun? Nah, it's not. But that doesn't make that person a dickhead. Some people just have different playstyles. That's the issue with a game like DBD that has, in 8 years, never had a defined win condition.
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Ahhh yes. Another case of content creator being irresponsible for free views. Figures.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642547#Comment_3642547
Isn't that called Deadlock lol
Survivors: Why do I have to run a perk to counter this killer thing (there's many examples)?
Also survivors: Isn't there a perk to counter survivors doing more than one gen at once?
Deadlock doesn't do anything but block the gen for a moment. It does nothing other than that.