Incarnate
Incarnate
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@Nos37 said:
As Survivor, I can choose not to work on a gen and I'm avoiding any detrimental effects that failing a skill check would have. (I can simply pass skill checks and I'm avoiding any detrimental effects as well.) The gens don't get done as fast, giving the Killer more precious time to find and sacrifice Survivors. Gen-tapping does the same thing: gives the Killer more precious time...Hang on a second there..
Choosing not to work on a gen would allow you avoid any detrimental effects that failing check would've, but then you wouldn't have any progress on the gen at all. But the part about you simply passing skill checks because you're avoiding them, is very incorrect - you're not passing any skill checks, because not being given any skill checks to pass. So when you are actually are working on a gen or doing something where a skill check could trigger, you're not supposed to be able to avoid skill checks altogether, the only reason you can is because they've made it in a certain way that makes you able to do so even when it wasn't intended. Furthermore, avoiding these skills checks where detrimental effects and game mechanics with actual consequences associtated with them are directly being negated.So when you're avoiding the skill checks from triggering, no matter the action, you're actually robbing the killer of the alert/notification it was supposed to get, something that is intended to help find you the survivor. So by avoiding these skill checks, you're directly removing an important gameplay aspect from the killer and therefore you're negatively affecting the gameplay balance, which is weakening the balance killer's balance.
Just because two things give the same, doesn't mean they're the same or that they're both ok just because one is.
Seriously, how can you not see this is an actual issue? There are so many game mechanical and gameplay aspects that are directly avoided through just tapping to avoid skill checks.
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@Malakir said:
Also, you're approaching this from a wrong angle - because thats usually what you would do, but that doesn't mean it's actually not an issue. The point of the matter is, that it takes less than a second to remove an effect that first of all is an effect over time, but also an effect that takes longer to apply than it does remove it - a simple tap is all, the survivor doesn't even have to keep tapping, the survivor can tap and continue to run.That's very true but now ask yourself a question. Would it be a problem if the maps were balanced and genrushing wasn't an issue? Would it be a problem if the survivor had to do something else in order to escape? even something minimal, nothing huge.
If the answer of any of this question is no then you got your answer
You're really avoiding the issue, how many times do I have to say it's not just tapping gens - this is at the core, almost any skill check be avoided by tapping, which will avoid most detrimental effect imposed either by addons or perks, in other words negate them.
Also, using all of these non-relevant examples isn't really constructive to this discussion nor to your argument.
@Nos37 said:
Here's a breakdown:- A Good skill check with Ruin is 5% regression, or 4 charges = 4 seconds of Survivior repair lost
- Survivors can tap a gen twice per second, at best, and that tap only adds 0.25 charges = 1 charge every 2 seconds
- This means that the Survivor would have to get a Good skill check every four seconds to lose as much progress as they would by gen-tapping!
I can tell you that I don't get skill checks that often as Survivor. Gen-tapping is in the Killer's favor.
Still, the main point here is that they're completely ignoring any detrimental effect other than it takes longer.
Also, there are things that will make skill checks happen more regularly, plus it's not just Hex: Ruin, it's litterally anything that would impose a more difficult skill check, that they're avoiding - which means that they avoiding potentially failing the check - which would direcly alert the killer (unless technician triggers), but otherwise it would alert the killer where the survivor would have to consider continueing or leaving the gen. So it's most certainly not just about it taking a longer, but by tapping you're avoiding a lot potential consequences which is directly for benefit of the killer - where tapping to avoid those basically means it's not just the addons or perks involved but a lot of game mechanics that are being bypassed this way.Like I said, it's not just gen-tapping thats an issue, but the very fact that you can just tap to avoid skill checks, which have possible detrimental effects and game mechanical consequences linked to them... how is that not an issue?
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@Weederick said:
We kinda got used to it, but i'd really like to see equal hitboxes, so we can get the cheese out of the way. Looping is gonna stay, but i think wouldnt complain that much, if the mechanics were actually balanced.I'm pretty sure survivors dont gain 0.4m/s advantage, that would make it possible to infinite slower killers.
Its more than EW1 MYers, since you can infinite him around anything.
So 0.2m/s advantage seems more fitting (or boosting survivors speed to 105%)They told us a year ago they wouldnt touch collision hitboxes, but it doesnt look as complicated to change as i thought. Hopefully they change their mind someday, that was one of the most requested wishes back in 2016.
That was the number given on the previous Q&A session on October 26th 2018, they even did the aproximate math on the devstream, of course they didn't account for every little variable or situation, but it was outright stated that they gain aproximately that amount. On the same Q&A they also so showed the reason why the survivor is gaining this distance to the killer - the difference between the collision capsules and the "tightness" of the turn.
It's values given by the devs, not something I've calculated, it's right here if you for some reason don't believe what I'm saying:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gTpZSllfMmw.It's around the 16:37 mark they begin to go into this.
/Edit/
Correction: It's 0.8m ~1.3s gain for survivor - based on their example on the Q&A.
Bottomline though, making more turns in a as a survivor is more beneficial for the survivor, obviously because distance to the killer is gained. -
@Malakir said:
Say that hex ruin is for preventinf too finish the general its hilarious. I'm not the best survivor ever but I still work through it efficiently I actually get more great skillchecks with it than when there isn't. With ruin your slow the gens for extra 10s and I can assure you isn't by gen tapping, it would take way longerSince you are making really silly statements can I ask you what rank are you? I've been rank 1 in both sides for awhile now and been in this forum as well and never saw somebody cry so much about something I would call tactic
Gen was kicked?
*Yes, its regressing now? -No. Someone around - yes, look somewhere else
*No, look somewhere elseIf you look at it's description, it's quite clear thats how it's intended - obviously how well it works depends on the skill of the players. But that still doesn't change the fact that the players are directly negating it's effect
Consider it's combined with other effects that make it more difficult to pass the skill checks, then it's more efficient at what it's intended to do - which can directly be negated by tapping.What is silly is the fact that it's not being considered an exploit by the devs.
I play in the red ranks.
Also, you're approaching this from a wrong angle - because thats usually what you would do, but that doesn't mean it's actually not an issue. The point of the matter is, that it takes less than a second to remove an effect that first of all is an effect over time, but also an effect that takes longer to apply than it does remove it - a simple tap is all, the survivor doesn't even have to keep tapping, the survivor can tap and continue to run.
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@Nos37 - I do, but that wasn't the main point either, and it's actually in less than a second. The point though, even without overcharge, the killer is spending time on applying an effect that works over time, that can be remove just by a simple tap.
Do you realize what I'm saying with whats actually wrong at the core with the fact that you can tap through most that would trigger a skill check, to avoid the detrimental effects, in other words directly negating them?
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@Nos37 said:
The benefit of Overcharge is the regression penalty (hence, the difficult skill check making it harder for the Survivor to pass). If the Survivor is failing that skill check, after tapping and running, then the perk is still doing its job correctly. Where does the perk say "Survivors who fail the skill check are trapped in place for 10 seconds?"I'm not saying it's not doing it's job, but what I am saying is that it takes more time to apply the regression effect + overcharge (or any other effect applied this way) than it does to remove it - all it litterally takes is a simple tap and that is it.
The whole point I'm making is that gentapping and any other situation where you can tap to avoid detrimental skill checks, is being exploited and abused. Because at the core, you can tap through most that would trigger a skill check, to avoid the detrimental effects - which directly bypasses their intended effect.
@Nos37 said:
On a larger scale, Killers should really reevaluate the benefits of generator regression. Is it handy to kick a generator, patrol elsewhere, and come back to see if the generator is still regressing? Yes. Is it worth babysitting a generator to keep it regressing and undo Survivor progress? Well, let's see:- It takes 80 charges for a generator to be repaired
- Survivors apply 1 charge per second (additional Survivors add diminishing returns; it's not 2 Survivors = 2 charges per second, 3:3, or 4:4)
- This means it takes 1 Survivor 40 seconds to repair a generator by 50%
- The Killer can kick generators to regress them at 1 charge every 4 seconds
- This means it takes the Killer 160 seconds (almost 3 minutes) to regress a generator by 50%
To me, it doesn't feel worth the effort to make sure every generator is regressing all the time, or to try and undo all of the Survivors' progress; I would rather focus on the chases and the hooking. Then, once I'm down to 2 Survivors, I can kick generators to better track them. Plus, I don't have to expose my location to the Survivors running Alert everytime I kick a generator.
Who's talking about babysitting the gens while they regress? I weren't, and I don't see why it's even being brought up, as I've made no mentions in regards to this. It can be absolutely necessary to kick generators, especially if they're getting close, and this is exactly where they're capitalizing on the fact that the killer is effectively losing time to keep kicking the generator, even with overcharge in the mix, because it doesn't take them more than a tap to stop the regression.
Like I said, at the core the problem is that you can just tap to avoid most skill checks triggering, which will allow you to avoid and directly negate the detrimental effects. Like for instance with Hex: Ruin, it's not just intended to slow the repairing of a generator down but also to prevent it from being finished, because it states that with good skill checks it regresses 5% and great skill checks 0%, and by gentapping you're completely negating it's effect at the sacrifice of it taking aproximately 95% longer, where normally you might not have been able to actually completely it.
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@Malakir said:
Dude they get no advantage by doing that, you are the one who doesn't know what an exploit is. Get in a place of the map where the killer can't hit you is an exploit, bugging the killer in a pallet is an exploit, do gens 95% slower for the lulz isn't an exploit. Tell me what advantages gives except make it slow af?Does make gens go faster even with ruin? No
Ignore overcharge? No
Make the gens be quiter for a big? No
Let them progress even when grabbed by the killer? NoI can go on being even more creative and it would always turn to be a no unless the question is : for a laugh?
You should know what an exploit is don't manipulate words to fit your narrative, it doesn't give any advantage and nobody uses that especially that often that a thread is been needed. I just saw done it once when the general was at 95% and took 30+s to finish it looking those 2 vibrating on a general (for the action button spam) so no, its not an exploit.
I don't even know why you are so upset about it, like I said if you think its an exploit then almost anything its an exploit starting to dribbling surveys and ending with the very core mechanics. Please before write a statement like that do me a favor, think
They do get an advantage by gentapping, or any other single tapping to avoid a detrimental skill check.
The intention with Hex: Ruin isn't just to slow you down in repairing the gen, but actually also to prevent you from finishing it. It litterally states that good checks will regress the progress by 5% and only great checks will be 0% loss. So by tapping your way through you're AVOIDING an intended detrimental mechanic - because even if it take 95% longer to do, you actually will still complete it, where it's possible you wouldn't if you didn't keep tapping the gen.I'm not saying that tapping a gen will ignore the overcharge effect, but what I am saying, because they haven't dealt with the tapping issue, that is being exploited and abused. As I described above, just tapping once will remove regression effect, one doesn't even have to make the gen progress, it's just a single tap, and the regression effect is gone - which I'm saying is what survivor players do. Litterally, they if they see a gen that regressing, they litterally just run past it and as they run past it all the do is tap once and then continue to keep running.
Quite litterally, at the core, you can tap through most where a skill check would trigger to avoid any detrimental skill check - which means that the tapping mechanics as a whole can bypass many detrimental game mechanical effects - which normally would be considered an exploit in video games, but for some reason the devs don't realize that tapping is an actual issue for game balance.
On the note of manipulating words, I'm doing no so such things, if anyone is manipulating words it's you, because you're using examples that has absolutely nothing to with the subject.
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@powerbats said:
@Incarnate said:
Devs make the rules, teh devs say it's not an exploit so your claims to the contrary have no basis or factual claim to be correct. That's just your opinion and gen tapping doesn't stop the explosion from overcharge. As far as Ruin being gen tapped if you're complaining about that then the problem is most definitely you.
In fact you want them gen tapping away since it takes them forever to finish 1 gen and quite often they'll still blow the thing up.
Yes, the devs make the rules, but that doesn't mean thats how it should be, the really should've been consequential and fixed it when they learned it was being abused, instead of just whitelisting it to avoid having to fix it.
This is actually something that is at the core of how skill checks trigger, you can litterally avoid any skill check that has detrimental effect just by tapping instead of holding, so it most certaintly is an exploit by the general definition of what an exploit is in video games.
You're right, it doesn't stop the explosion, but the explosion part has little relevance in this regard, because the tapping part is being abused to set it off thus removing it. Same goes with removing the regression from a generator, which takes more time for the killer to apply than it does for a survivor to remove - just a simple tap from the survivor that is all.
In regards to ruin, it's actually still avoiding the detrimental effect - the intention with ruin isn't just to slow you down in repairing the gen, but actually also to prevent you from finishing. It litterally states that good checks will regress the progress by 5% and only great checks will be 0% loss. So if you cannot see that even despite the devs saying it's not an exploit, it quite clearly is, because the players are directly AVOIDING an intended detrimental game mechanic, and by allowing it, they're litterally doing an injustice to the players using for instance hex ruin. Same goes with any killer when in regards to removing the regression and effect with a single click rather than what was intended.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
Still feels like there's some places that are still really good for who knows how many loops against Huntress, and people of the same speed.
And they require practically threading the needle with hatchets if it's even possible to hit someone over them. I.E. Long boats in the Pantry.Would be nice if there were answers beyond "Play Nurse."
Every killer is facing this issue, with the exception of good nurse player because she can't ignore collision from obstacles. This is a fundamental issue, they've just been applying bandaid solutions, hence why some areas don't feel as affected by it, but at the core, this is an issue. The killer have no real way of dealing with it as this is a game mechanical advantage in favor of the survivors.
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@Malakir said:
@Incarnate gen tapping isn't an exploit and any survivor won't do that unless its for fun. It would take AGES to complete even 15% of a gen. There is ruin? Just work through it, its faster, gentapping would take the same time of 5 gensYour definition of exploit is kinda over the top, then dr juggle the survivirs is an exploit, body block to hit the chainsaw is an exploit and from there we can go through 'every aura perk is an exploit' since would be a snowball effect started by a dumb statement
Gentapping actually is - do you know the definition of an exploit in video games? There are slight variations of the definition: "an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." This wasn't intended by design, and quite clearly the player is gaining an advantage that wasn't intended, and that devs haven't done anything about it just says something about them, because this quite clearly is very imbalanced.
Also, did you not notice the example with overcharge? Where they don't keep sitting and tapping it through until done, but simply tap once to remove the regressing + overcharge effect and then run off, they don't even care if they're going to face a skill check that they will auto fail - they don't lose time doing that.
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@fcc2014 said:
It takes longer to Gen tap than actually work through it. Who cares if 4 survivors gen tap their way through the whole match the problem isn't gen tapping the problem is you! You need to apply map pressure. Stop using excuses as to why you "fail".Hang on there, there is a difference between tapping your way through until it's done and just tapping once to remove the regressing mechanic, including any effect put on - like overcharge. It takes time for the killer to make the gen regress - ie. to apply the overcharge effect, time which the killer could be using to apply map pressure.
So no the problem isn't me - if you can't see that there is a problem, then you have a problem.
Also, being able to just keep single tapping to avoid an intended game mechanic, is by definition an exploit, which devs really should realize but apparently don't. -
@Boss said:
The last thing i need is being slowed down even more.But you're not being slowed down, nor are you receiving a speed boost in this regard.
What you are though is getting a distance advantage, which the killer isn't unless chasing a survivor in a straight line. So the killer has to spend a significant amount of time to chase one down, and even if the killer manages to secure a hit, the killers gets slowed and unable to do any other action than move very slowly, where the survivor gets a speedboost, this is basically another chance to escape, and with the chase/turn/looping mechanics as they are, it's very likely that the survivor will escape and just heal up, which basically means the killer has effectively just wasted a ton of time.In order to be better balanced survivor move speed and turn speed should be the same as the killer, and if they want a difference, then those differences should balance each other out, they currently do not.
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@ModernFable said:
Incarnate said:@ModernFable said:
They even confirmed on stream what aren’t exploits/bannable actions
I know, and the devs clearly don't understand what it does allowing gentapping!
It's a gamebalance issue!
Almost everything Behavior has done has caused game balance issues, however Gen Tapping is not an exploit. Whether it’s balanced is another thing entirely.
On a side note, unless they’ve recently changed it, you cannot avoid Overcharge by Gen Tapping.
It actually is, because it's not an intended mechanic, it's a result of poorly executed game design.
It should simply not be possible to tap the gens, or bypass anyone other skillcheck by tapping.@thesuicidefox said:
Gens should require you to work on them for at least 1 second before progression starts. Then tapping wouldn't be possible.Also regarding the devs list there... the reason some things can't get you banned is because it's impossible to enforce arbitrary rules like that. They have to allow that stuff because they can't police every minute instance of it. If you gen tap just once in a game does that count? Twice? 50 times? Where's the line?
Like stream sniping should totally get you a ban but there is no way to prove someone was stream sniping. On top of that, they put the fault on the streamer since you can't be stream sniped if you don't stream (or at the very least stream with a proper delay, but not many streamers want to do that because they want live interaction with chat). And to this end I agree with the devs. I don't stream but if/when I do I will be sure to put a 30-60 second delay just to avoid snipers.
Actually in regards to streamers, I hate the very fact that you have no way of actually knowing if someone is streaming unless of obvious signs, because I dislike to participate in someone's stream unknowingly and without my consent.
I'm not sure if 1 second would be enough, but I would say it should take at least the same amount of time as it takes for the killer to interact with the generator - it should be somewhat equal, when it comes to time usage.
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@ModernFable said:
Better than it’s been, still in need of improvementIt needs a lot more than that - in my opinion it needs something closer to a rework.
Because they really need to address the fact that survivor can actually gain distance by turning around obstacles, only due to the tightness of the turn and the collision capsules being different in size. -
@ModernFable said:
They even confirmed on stream what aren’t exploits/bannable actionsI know, and the devs clearly don't understand what it does allowing gentapping!
It's a gamebalance issue! -
@SadonicShadow said:
@Incarnate said:
Remove the bloodweb - it creates such a grindfest.
I think it would be a lot better without having to go spend blood points, in my opinion it, having to scour through the bloodweb for items, is just a waste of time.I think it would be a lot better if everything was available.
Hell to the no. I agree this game is grindy but i love the bloodweb. Once i have saved up to a million BP i enjoy sitting down and burning through them. Its fun because i am always excited to see what i will get next. The bloodweb is also critical for game balance. If everything was available easily people would always run the best items and offerings. The RNG of the bloodweb coupled with the rarity tiers means using powerful items comes at a cost and forces players to be mindful of how they use there best stuff.
The bloodweb could serve to be adjusted but not removed.
But running the best of the best wouldn't be a thing, because it would have to changed in regards to tiers and rarity, because you see as it is now, it's actually not balanced, especially not because of the bloodweb. The main reason why it isn't balanced is due to people bring different tiers and rarities into match. The items should be about playstyle, gaining benefits and the sacrifice of not getting other benefits.
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Remove the bloodweb - it creates such a grindfest.
I think it would be a lot better without having to go spend blood points, in my opinion it, having to scour through the bloodweb for items, is just a waste of time.I think it would be a lot better if everything was available.
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@Nickenzie said:
SenzuDuck said:@Nickenzie said:
This is why people can't have proper discussions with you @SenzuDuck because you assume too much and use your assumptions to make fallacies about people. However I repeat what I said again with more clarification for you to understand my point of view. I don't care if 4 survivors or 0 survivors escape, just take your win and move on is my motto. Usually survivors will wait for you to hit them out the exit gate when they ALREADY won, meaning everyone is at a exit gate waiting to be hit out the exit. They know that their teammate is safe, they know that they can now leave, but they don't because they wanna waste your time and tea bag to stroke their epeen.
This entire thread is about adding a free bloodwarden effect at the end, so if you're going to argue with me about something completely irrelevant to the conversation then move on because I'm not interested.
Yes, yes the typical "strawman" response. However, I will do as you wish and move on since having a civilized conversation is pointless with you. Au revior.
It's like if we ignore or dismiss their argument long enough, they'll probably go away. We all know this is exactly how it's happening, and it's actually something that should've been dealt with a long time ago. Especially due to the fact, that it's being done specifically to antagonize the killer, not because anything else.
I don't see how adding something that addresses this would break the game, as long as it's being done in a way that deals with the problem efficiently without creating any additional issues, which most certainly is possible. -
@SenzuDuck said:
Just walk into the gate for pete's sake it's not rocket science.No, it's not rocket science, but it's the very fact that this happens in the majority of the matches, and how this area is actually being abused/used currently to antagonize the killer, without any repercussions or consequences for doing so. It's the very fact that the killer is forced to do so, the survivors should be escaping when they can. Playing the game carries risk vs. reward, if you're not trying to escape you're playing the game, even if this is in the gate area, so there absolutely should be a risk for not escaping when you can, for whatever the reason.
Furthermore, it's ridiculous that survivors get a free escape when downed close enough to the edge of the exit zone. There are those that litterally just keep standing close to enough to this edge, and will keep doing so until you hit them.
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SenzuDuck said:
you're all acting as if 4 man squads are squandering in the gate every match, and then act as if walking towards them is a chore and it's "demeaning" to push them out, grow a set kiddos - the survivors are against you, if they can waste 10 seconds of your time forcing you to push them out they will.Yes, they're against the killer, but their objective is to escape, so they should be escaping when they can, and it should carry a certain risk vs. reward if they stay, for whatever reason, they shouldn't just be able to stand there and take the game hostage, baiting, taunting and antagonizing the killer to force them out - they should attempting to escape at this point, where anything else is just wrong. Currently as is, they can freely do this WITHOUT any kind of repercussions or consequenses as they can freely escape even if the killer comes to force them out.
....but by what you're saying it's completely acceptable that they can waste the killers personal time, because at this point the match is over, because of how it is currently.
@Nickenzie said:
I don't want 4ks tho, I just think it's annoying that you should chase a survivor out when they already won. I'm in the mindset of, "Great job you won, now gtfo!"I completely agree. The survivor players should not have this kind of leverage over any player in the game, where they can litterally take the game hostage and force a player to take action against it, and even if the player in question does so, it's without any kind of possible reward for this player, so not only is it antagonizing the player, it's also demeaning as it's being used to rub the defeat in this particular players face. So in my opinion, either they should be forced out - not by the player but by the games mechanics, or there should absolutely be made some changes to this so that staying in the gate area will carry a risk.
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@SenzuDuck said:
Except he states "this should have been made years ago" - it has nothing to do with the perk or taking up a slot, he just wants something to act like bloodwarden when he enters the gate area.The reason why it stated "this should have been made years ago" I assume is due to it having been abused the way to "troll" the killer, getting a free escape when being downed close enough to the exit, etc., almost since release.
@SenzuDuck said:
Self care is 32 seconds, again a killer doesn't deserve the kill just because a survivor wanted to heal in a gate and then suddenly he appears, survivors locked in for healing and then dies because they used the safety of the gate to heal and maybe go in for saves.again, another thread where killers want free ######### for themselves for something that happens in a miniscule amount of games, I honestly cannot remember the last time I had a survivor stay in a match with my for longer than it took them to find the hatch.
you're all acting as if 4 man squads are squandering in the gate every match, and then act as if walking towards them is a chore and it's "demeaning" to push them out, grow a set kiddos - the survivors are against you, if they can waste 10 seconds of your time forcing you to push them out they will.
In regards to selfcare, that certainly depends on where the survivor in the gated area decides to use the selfcare, secondly a survivor isn't locked in animation like the killer is, they can easily break the animation, even if others are healing them. Besides, if all surviving victims are there, they should be escaping rather than be healing up. The main post isn't about getting free kills, but at the very least still make it reasonably fair, because as it is now, if they're waiting in the gate area, guess what - if they're all healed up then they all going to escape.
You're saying killers shouldn't get free kills in the gate area, I agree, but survivors shouldn't on the other hand get a free escape - which they currrently do if they're close enough to the edge of the exit zone and they get downed.
There should be risk vs. reward involved in staying in the trial, which there currently isn't when staying in the gate area. I get that people want to ensure everyone escapes, but when every survivor is there they should be escaping, instead of baiting and taunting the killer to chase them out - the killer gets absolutely nothing out of it. Furthermore, if the killer doesn't do it, then they can and some will keep the game hostage. It may be you're not experiencing this much but that doesn't mean it's not happening a lot - I get this in the majority of my matches. I'm quite certain this is a widespread issue among the playerbase, so don't be like there isn't a problem, because there is.
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Thats how it currently is, but the devs have stated more game modes and matchmaking options are very likely to be implemented. So it's very likely that they will add an option to queue for games with a specific role if it turns out a lot wants this.Tsulan said:I was hyped for this game until I learned that it uses the same matchmaking as f13: you don't get to choose your role.
That's a no go for me. I want to decide if I'm killer or survivor. -
I think a better way to handle it would be, it locks for everyone not in a chase in the gate area, where those it locks for have to exit the gate area for an optimal amount of time, like 10 seconds or longer if they don't leave the gate area . It might not be optimal, but it will deal with the problem of people waiting in the area for the other reasons than to escape, where those being chased by the killer into the gate area would most likely be attempting to escape, and if not its on them. So those that are just waiting around to antagonize the killer, would be doing so at great risk. Furthermore, if they would considered chased by the game because the killer shows up, then a requirement of being chased for more than 2 seconds should be added, otherwise it locks. The numbers can be tweaked, but generally I think this would solve alot of problems without introducing any new ones. Because, if people are waiting in the gate area for others to have a chance to escape, then they should be escaping when they can see the killer is about to chase the survivor into the gate area.Nickenzie said:
There could be a timer. If a survivor has been in the exit gate area for let's say 30 seconds then whenever the killer walks in, it gets blocked for the specific survivor until they leave the exit gate area for 10 seconds.SenzuDuck said:It's a pretty bad idea if I'm honest - if you're genuinely trying to escape and being chased by the killer and he enters the gate area you're locked in for no other reason apart from killers want more easy end game kills.
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I, Incarnate promise to be a better example and will show others what it's like to be a beacon.
...which I always try to be, so the promise doesn't mean much of a difference me, but perhaps others will follow the example. -
I have to agree, this seems far more balanced, thought through and well executed. Also, it does seem to use a solid framework. Closed beta begins nov. 2-4, so it won't be long before it's out. The devs seem to know what they're doing.
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As it is now, the majority of the survivor players just wait close to the edge of the exit zone for the killer to come force them out, which the killer stands to gain nothing from, which is ridiculous. It's likewise just as ridiculous, that a downed survivor near the edge of the exit zone gets a free escape, because it automatically escapes after being downed, and even in the cases where it doesn't automatically escape it's still impossibe for the killer to actually be able to pick up the survivor because of the slow recovery animation, where the downed survivor still gets to escape. This mechanics is being thorougly abuse by so many, because there are no repercussions from doing so. Also, the survivor players can actually take the game hostage if the killer doesn't take action against them. They're supposed to be attempting to escape when they have the chance to do so, and more so when they're all there, which most do not. They just stand there in the gate area and try to antagonize the killer, inherently by just standing there knowing the killer can do nothing against them to change the outcome, and quite many also try to taunt the killer in various ways. So certainly something should be done.
It's sort of the same deal with the strategy of slugging because nothing can effectively be done against it, even running various perks, equipment with addons isn't an effective counter, so even with the survivors bleeding out, they're still not able to do a damn thing about it, which in my opinion is a design flaw. I think it would be healthy for the game if the victims was actually able to recover from it, even it's just temporarily they've recovered or they have a few times they can fully recover without a perk for it.
Same deal with selfcare, it's an unhealthy addition to the game as it is now, in my opinion I think it should be limited to a certain amount of uses. We all know how it's being "abused" in the game currently, limitting its amount of uses will make people think twice about how and when they use it, as they suddenly won't be able to keep taking hits indefinitely.
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@Malakir said:
When some people post things like that over and over, making dumb argument over and over. What do you expect? I just read radiant posts and threads to get a laugh at this point, there is no argument you can have with people like him/herWhether or not an argument is "dumb" as you so put it, really is nothing more than a matter of opinion in most cases. Also, just because people disagree, don't make an argument dumb. In fact, it's more dumb to just completely dismiss a well written argument based on previous arguments, which is the case in regards to above. Also, it might be that some people post ideas that aren't necessarily the best ideas, or they don't make the same sense as the poster seems to have of it, but just because one dislikes an idea or disagrees with the idea, doesn't necessarily make it dumb. The only way we can make the game and community better, is not by dismissing people's arguments, or by calling them or their ideas/arguments dumb just because a lot of people disagree or dislike it. Quite often a good discussion can come of it which might lead to something new, or the very least people might actually begin to see the other side of things. Whenever I read a post, I try to remain objective and as unbiased as possible, because thats the only way it can be conducisive and constructive to the discussion and it's end result.
So the interesting thing about this particular topic, is the very fact that camping has been said by so many people including veterans that it isn't a viable strategy, and people should just do gens instead, where it being the main strategy by the winner in the tournament but also in the final match, proves that it indeed is viable strategy. Now I'm not saying that the majority of people can actually pull this off, but with practice, thought and effort, it can be made to work - which it apparently did in the tournament. Which actually leads me to, that perhaps people shouldn't be so quick to write off a strategy?
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I think BHVR should look to this game and get some inspiration, as the devs have done one heck of a job on this one. Especially when considering, there are various objectives that must be completed, various object that one must acquire in order to complete these objectives, while still keeping it balanced, where both sides must keep on their toes if they want to have any chance of winning.
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Honestly, I think people should in general take posts more serious, instead of calling out "bait" or immediately begin to assume all sort of things about the players skill, experience, etc.
On topic: Yeah it's interesting to see a strategy such as camping being used successfully in the tournament, and even being the deciding factor in regards to the victory. Especially when considering so many have been saying that camping isn't a valid strategy.
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Apparently there have been some visibility issues with my accounts posts, these should be fixed now.
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@Peanits said:
I don't think so. I like those buttcheek clenching moments at the end of the game where a survivor is being chased and get caught inches from escaping. This would completely remove that. If the gates are powered and they're already there, the killer should not get a free kill just for showing up.I think there is a big difference between one just barely escaping and one having been waiting there until the killer arrives, because at this point it's on the victim, not the killer. Likewise, it's ridiculous that a downed victim near the exit zone gets a free escape, especially if it's one who've just been waiting close to the edge of the exit zone, where it would be impossible to get that one you've just downed. So certainly something should be done.
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Is this has to do with the entire ranking system, it's way too easy achieve rank, and the Hallows Blight has only made it much easier for killers to climb the rank tree so to speak. I also agree with the SWF part, not that many who're rank 1 survivors are really skilled enough to hold that rank as a solo survivor. As I've said before, the game needs more game modes, and it needs to account for SWF in the ranking system as well. Furthermore, as rank is global / shared between ones killers and survivors, you will not be always be playing the one where you're actually that rank.
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Not sure you can do anything without actual video proof, even screenshots aren't enough.
But you can try submitting a ticket with all the details, including screenshots if you have, where if you happen to have video proof, then they can do something about it. -
@SpottedDog said:
It's been here since patch 1.5 and more and more killers are ruining games with it. You literally just spamm the drop button on killer and because you're host, you always get the drop before the blind. It's such an annoying exploit that literally breaks the game I'm surprised more people aren't spamming the forums about it.Well, it's more annoying that survivors can abuse the killer is locked in animation when picking up a survivor or breaking a pallet, which so many survivors do - so you can thank those who abuse that the killer is locked in animation to blind the killer. Can even be done when the killer is recovering from a decisive strike.
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On the recent devstream, hard numbers were given on the distance a survivor gets from the killer when taking a turn around an obstacle, given in meters per second. So for every turn around an obstacle in a loop a survivor takes, the survivor increases the distance to the killer by 0.4 meters per second. Where the killer is 0.6 faster in a straight line so looping is HEAVILY in favor of the survivors. So with all of those loopable areas which are created to favor the survivors, only favor them even more. So if the survivor keeps looping they will increase their chances of survival, where blood lust should trigger much faster. It's not so weird that a lot of survivors easily can keep a chase going without end, because of the above. But not only that, when they actually do take a hit, the killer is penalized for it by being slowed down and the survivor gets a speed boost. That is certainly quite obvious to see that there is some imbalance in regards to the chasing and looping mechanics, where the attack recovery falls under.
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@Orion said:
If this were Bloodwarden's effect, it'd make the perk worth taking. As a default mechanic, no way.If as a default mechanic was more like what proposed above, then it'd be more reasonable, obviously the timer should be reasonable. But I think this way people would be more inclined to escape when they can rather than just wait for the killer to come, forcing the killer to make them leave, and even then, they could just keep standing close to the exit and facing it, and they would still be granted a free escape - which in my opinion is a problem. This could to some degree deal with it where the killer actually could get a kill or possibly more depending on the situation. Obviously this won't deal with the problem entirely, but it certainly would make it less attractive to attempt, as there actually could consequences of doing that.
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@βLAKE said:
Just make blood warden a hex perk that is activated when the gates are powered and for every hook after blood warden is activated, it adds several seconds to the cleansing of the blood warden hex totem.That isn't what the OP suggests though - it's suggested as base mechanic of the game - it could certainly change the end game to become less toxic, and people would probably think twice before trying to stay there where the killer is nearby.
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@Nickenzie said:
Cymer said:
How can the perk Insidious be used without camping a hook, gen or a place?
If camping is discouraged please remove or rework that perk.
The perk will get reworked because the perk goes against what the developers want which is don't camp without reasoning...and Insideous don't give a good strategic reason to camp?
Because that it most certainly does - a victim on the hook can be considered bait for the survivors, and the use of insidious allows to better utilize that bait. -
@Rebel_Raven said:
Insidious Huntress, or Freddy for the lolz.It would be great if Insideous also suppressed their signature give away.
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Would be great if we could actually set the theme music ourselves for the menu.
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I definitely agree with this, especially since most survivors will just wait at the exits until you move in.
Furthermore, it's absolute BS that a survivor will escape just because it's close enough to the exit when it's downed.I do propose a slight change to the suggested though, first thing, there should be a timer on, like 30 seconds needs to pass when the killer is also there before you can exit, this would automatically deal with several issues, one being those that just wait there to bait and troll the killer, but it also deals with those that just wait at the gate area who take a downing hit but gets a free escape, and furthermore it also makes it impossible for the killer to try and keep the game hostage as the killer can only keep them there for so long.
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On the topic of killer hit angle, I think there should absolutely be more than one, and most certainly also different attack directions, instead of it just being a horisontal swing from right to the left.
- Horisontal
- Vertical
- Diagonal
- Different attack directions.
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I agree, it should be reworked.
I think making it an activatable perk, meaning activatable without having to wait for it to activate.
Change it so that, if you move its effects aren't immediately cancelled, but would get its effects cancelled after a few seconds then it would go on cooldown. This would make it a lot more viable and it wouldn't just work for camping, but could work for many other styles and strategies - which actually could create a mindgame around it.For instance, the wraith could combo it with faking it's cloak, even though there is the whoosh sound that normally would give it away when it cloaks, that could possibly be affected through addons future addons.
This could most certainly work well on a MM in T3, it would possibly further enhance Piggy stealth play.
In general it could be used to throw of the victims sense of where the killer is, and would be even stronger if combined with Beast of Prey, which suppresses the red stain and the terror radius while it's in effect. As that could be used just when BoP is about to go on cooldown, to further extend the suppression of the terror radius.It should certainly be reworked, where I'm sure there are a lot of other just as viable solutions to its rework.
I'm certainly up for discussing various rework ideas. -
Yeah, this is one the things they should've changed a long time ago.
It's just one of those things that makes swf groups stronger. -
It's not just a matter of what perks or offerings being used in the event, but also what style of play that is being used on either side, I've seen both sides employ abusive, toxic and hardcore strategies to win, some even to try and deny event points.
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One thing that would be good - a general feature to scrap the addons, equipment and offerings that we feel we don't need for an amount of bloodpoints - like get 50% back of its original cost. This would also be beneficial to get rid of items we don't use where we then could use some of the points to acquire new items from the bloodweb.
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I don't think it should be based on RNG as it is currently, I think it would be much better if they were to do a different kind of skill-check, namely a puzzle sort of skill check with a timer on, where the more difficult the skill-check is to be, the less time one has to complete the puzzle. The puzzle in question, is randomized, and is about making the correct connections, where only if you successfully connect it all, only then will it be a successful skill. The timer adds pressure, and the closer the killer gets to the trapper survivor, the more pressure will be on the player.
Alternatively instead of a puzzle, the skill-check used instead should be emphasizing on pressure.
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@DarkWo1f997 said:
Ending this debate once and for all. Here your irrefutable proof that console 360’s are 100% ethical and should not be changed. All footage captured was against SWF groups at rank 5 and 4.EDIT: all footage captured today and over the course of 30 minutes.
Irrefutable proof? Don't know if you realize this, but those weren't 360s, at least not successful 360 attempts.
So I wouldn't say they were actual counters, you didn't do anything specific to counter like stop or back up before striking, you just attacked outright.So I think it's important to distinguish between actual 360's being pulled off successfully and the those that are executed poorly, where all of those I saw attempted in that video, were poorly executed.
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There is one thing though that Horvath said on the stream, which certainly could be an issue, is that the turning speed of the killer is not high enough to be able hit - which obviously is during a commited 360 where you're following the 360 around.
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@Kaelum said:
FYI, watch the dev stream that was released this morning. They specifically address 360s, stating that they were never intendent, but they are definitely not an exploit, and they are impressed with those who can pull them off. Why? Because 360s can very easily be countered by the killer.Actually, while it is true that they did say that, Horvath actually also said things that sort of indicate there could be tweaks necessary - like for instance, he said that the turning rate for the killer is not high enough, so they won't be able to hit the survivor anyways - this is around the 6:45 miniute mark: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us - to me this sounds like there actually is an issue with the 360s.
https://youtu.be/380EyxdopSA