I_Cant_Loop
I_Cant_Loop
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@ForumPikmin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997354#Comment_3997354
Ok? Survivor, especially for solo que players is still insanely miserable, the fact that we're not going to be getting ANYTHING is the problem.
The problem with solo queue is non-functional matchmaking system. I have no problem escaping consistently in solo queue with competent teammates who don’t get downed in 5 seconds or immediately get of their gen and hide in a corner at the slightest hint of a terror radius when the HUD is showing someone else being chased.
Being able to consistently escape in matches with competent teammates has convinced me that the core problem with the game is not killer vs survivor balance or tunneling, slugging, camping, etc. It’s bad teammates who don’t know how to play the game. -
@sinkra said:
Time for a survivor boycott.
BHVR has to make balance decisions based on what is going to please the largest number of people on both sides. There are always going to be extreme opinions on both sides who feel like they deserve to be winning every single game. Fortunately those are the minority and honestly the game would be healthier and less toxic if they weren’t playing.
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can you share from the official stats page?
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997247#Comment_3997247
That's not factual at all. The latest aggregated stats BHVR have released show every single killer wins greater than 50% of the time and most are at or above their 60% target. Killers literally win more than survivors.
Your personal stats aren't relevant to game balance beyond their contribution to aggregated killer/survivor win/loss data. Past 30 day combined data shows I have greater than 60% kill rates on 16 of 19 played killers - still think we should go off anecdotal, player by player data?
Please explain how the official stats show that every killer wins more than 50% of the time. Are you talking about the kill rate? Because that is not the same thing as win rate. The average kill rate is 60%, which means on average, the most common outcomes are 2-3K, with 2K (which is a draw for the killer) being more common than 3K. Draws are more common than wins for the average killer.
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@Memesis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997102#Comment_3997102
Why bother?? The killer queues are constantly 15 minutes for months. That should speak for itself.
Where do you play? Outside of 2v8, my killer queue times during peak evening hours have been nearly instant and always far shorter than survivor queues during that time. I play US eastern time zone. If you’re referring to non-peak hours like morning/early afternoon, killer queue times have always been long during that period because far fewer people are playing survivor with their friends.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997237#Comment_3997237
Its factual information that survivor is better, and its in the stats too for the most part. BHVR caters far too much to bad survivor players, and these changes would've been the mother load of unbalance. I have a 75%+ escape rate, thats not supposed to be happening according to BHVR's target killrate.
My escape rate is far closer to the average than yours is, but full agree about the “catering to bad survivor players” point. My games are riddled with people who get downed 5 seconds into a chase because they don’t know basic chase skills. I believe a majority of the complaints about how “impossible” the survivor side is are coming from these players.
There are a ton of good survivor players out there who can consistently give killers long chases - I see them in my killer games all the time. It is possible. -
So if feedback about the changes was overwhelmingly negative, which it clearly was, BHVR should just push forward with the changes anyway because people who don’t play killer and thus don’t understand the consequences on the game balance don’t like it?
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@Meg_Survivor said:
it honestly never fails, its always a killers word over survivors - we have been begging for changes like Tunneling and Slugging to come to the game for YEARS and i already know they are going to change it again just to make it useless. The only thing they need to change as far as the Tunneling feature goes is this section:
Tunneling Penalties- When a Survivor dies to a hook action or Mori before 6 total hook states, the remaining Survivors gain a
25%repair speed bonus. - When a Survivor that was previously hooked is Killed or Sacrificed, the Killer loses the ability to block, damage, or regress generators by any means.
everything else as far as the HUD should honestly stay the same. its already hard enough for solo q survivors to try to manage a 1v3 esp against stronger killers, stop trying to make the game easier for killers to win and make it fair to where it is BALANCED for all players.
Also, as far as the slugging goes killers can still slug everyone and then end up hooking EVERYONE before the 90 seconds are even up. Its honestly rare for some killers to leave anyone down for that long knowing these changes are coming in effect.
They are so quick to make changes and respond once killers speak up just like when they nerfed the fog vials, they really need to take this time to really sit and think about what changes really need to be made esp from a survivors perspective.
Did you actually try playing killer with these changes? If not, maybe you should before drawing a conclusion that they are totally fine and not overly punishing.
- When a Survivor dies to a hook action or Mori before 6 total hook states, the remaining Survivors gain a
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997127#Comment_3997127
It will be punishing, I hope.
Keep in mind, there are genuine issues with the system currently. I don't think many people have an issue with tunneling when it's done at 2 gens left and 3 hooks, for example.
Ideally, tunneling at 5 gens, or 4 gens or at high hook stages should be more punished than tunneling at low gens and low hook stages.
there have been plenty of people claiming that tunneling is never ok, regardless of the situation
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@cogsturning said:
No one saw that coming, no sir.
Well, maybe it actually was too punishing, as many predicted, but were then insulted by and dismissed by many on this forum.
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Enough with the “us vs them” garbage. It may surprise you to learn that a lot of people actually play both sides and aren’t solely “killer main” or “survivor main” players. A lot of these people who play both sides are voicing legitimate concerns about the changes - or the “crying”, as you insultingly call it.
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This is true, in theory, but I have seen way too many bad changes get pushed through to live from PTB to believe it’s going to be any different this time. Seems like PTB feedback rarely gets paid attention to.
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I enjoyed it on both sides. The main complaint on killer side is (obviously) the queue times. Main complaint on survivor side is existence of Legion and Oni in this game mode. Legion needs to be removed altogether and Oni toned down a bit.
I didn’t have any issues getting 5K or more as killer (played mostly Wraith) as long as my teammate wasn’t terrible or playing as Nemesis or Trapper. -
Try playing as Nemesis in 2v8 and I think you will change your mind about him very quickly.
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The killers are supposed to be more powerful in 2v8 than 1v4. That’s the whole point. Survivors are more powerful than normal too.
I enjoy going against Wesker in both modes. No issues with him at all. Also, Nemesis is “worse”???He is super weak in 2v8. This is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone complain about him. -
@brewingtea said:
Killers, go play survivor. ONCE. You'll see the frustration everyone is talking about.
I play survivor about half the time. I personally think all the complaining about the survivor experience is way overblown. My lifetime escape rate is about 43%, and I am totally fine with that. I think it should be relatively difficult to escape in a horror game. Tunneling and slugging don’t happen nearly as often as many people claim, at least in my personal experience. In most of my matches, if someone is being tunneled, I just keep working on gens and usually we get 2-3 out. If I’m being tunneled, I do my best to buy as much time as I can for the team to do gens and often times they all get out even if I die.
The biggest problem BY A MILE in solo queue survivor is the matchmaking. I am not exaggerating when I say that I get brand new players (<50 hours) thrown into my lobbies every single time I log in to play. When I get experienced teammates who know basic looping and don’t immediately leave gens to hide in a corner when they hear a terror radius even though they can see someone else is being chased, the match is almost always fun and competitive.
Survivor side if very winnable if you know how to play the game and have teammates who also know how to play the game. -
@brewingtea said:
Huh, have they ever thought about "frustrating for killers" if Survs play aggressively?
If you think, "This restaurant sucks!" but you're waiting in line for 20+ minutes to eat there, your complaints aren't going to carry quite AS MUCH water as people who went somewhere else because they found a finger in their soup. Sorry.
My killer queues in normal mode are instant when I play in the evenings. What are you talking about?
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992236#Comment_3992236
Nah, mid tier killers don't need to tunnel if they know how to play well.
is this based on your personal experience?
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@BreadLord said:
if a survivor unhooks in my face as trapper, i chase the unhooker, they use lithe and get distance. the person who just got unhooked steps in a trap nearby. So im gonna get punished for using the trappers power to go and pick them up and hook them?
or if im sadako and a survivor ignores all tapes and gets condemned before 6 hooks, do i just ignore the condem???
Yep, you will absolutely be punished if that survivor is on death hook. You have to ignore that survivor who just got trapped and can’t touch them again unless you want to disable all gen regression and also if there are less than 6 total hooks give the rest of the survivors a repair bonus for the rest of the game. Pretty awesome and fair!
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992819#Comment_3992819
Survivors are getting a mechanic to turn around a losing match. That’s the anti-tunnel.
What if they're losing without tunnelling involved?
I get your point - if killer is losing badly they can try to tunnel to secure a kill but if survivors are losing badly in a fair match they don’t have any strategies or mechanics to try to secure an escape. Am I understanding your point correctly?
I would say hatch is the main mechanic for survivors who have lost to try to secure an escape. Hatch isn’t a guaranteed escape, but tunneling also is not a guaranteed kill.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992814#Comment_3992814
If you want to keep tunnelling in your back pocket as a means to turn around a losing match, what comparable thing do survivors get?
Survivors are getting a mechanic to turn around a losing match. That’s the anti-tunnel. Killers aren’t getting any built-in mechanics to turn around losing matches, so the only thing they can do if they are losing badly is adjust their playstyle to try to secure a killer and put a bit of pressure on the survivor team.
Remember, I am only talking about late game situations in which most gens are done and killer has few hooks. Are you really arguing at this point that it’s still unfair for killers to try to eliminate a survivor? If so, I would love to see how you handle this type of situation in your own killer matches.
I play both sides about equally so I am not trying to argue in bad faith here. I want both sides to be enjoyable and feel fair to play. I’m totally fine with the concept of preventing early game tunneling, but totally not fine with putting restrictions on how killers can play late game when they’re trying to salvage a losing match and the survivors have already had plenty to time and opportunity to have a fun and enjoyable match. -
@rvzrvzrvz said:
I don't get these posts, you have 1 hook with 2 gens left and you still think you deserve your free 4k ? if your first chase was extremely long maybe don't commit so hard, you're getting outplayed why should you win the game ?
Can you show us who asked for a “free 4K” if they are losing that badly?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992780#Comment_3992780
Survivors get no catch-up when their teammates die, why should the killer? Especially since the killer can snowball at any point, unlike survivors?
Um, survivors won’t get a catch-up mechanic when their teammates die in the new update?
I’m saying that the catch-up mechanic should be disabled in late game. Definitely with only 1 gen left, maybe 2? If killer has fewer than 6 hooks with only one gen left, then clearly the survivors don’t need an additional buff at that point. In this situation, please tell me what is the killer supposed to do to secure a kill and maybe put some pressure on the survivor team other than try to go for whoever has already been hooked twice? Even comp level players have to resort to this in late game if they are losing badly.
The point of the anti-tunnel should be preventing killers from cheaply eliminating survivors early in the game. Now it seems that the goal post is moving and the demands are going way beyond that. I’m talking about late game here, survivors have all had plenty of time to play and now killer has to do something to try to salvage the match. At this point it’s not “tunneling” anymore and it’s ridiculous to say that killers still should be penalized for trying to secure kills. -
@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992540#Comment_3992540
Getting better is part of PvP games. Staying stuck in the ‘but that’s not fair’ mindset, refusing to improve, and then demanding changes from your own unwillingness to learn
Maybe killer mains might want to try considering that advice when it comes to this update.
This applies to both sides
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@OmegaXII said:
So Killer has 1 hook, with only 2 gens left. How are you going to comeback from this? You can't kill anyone before 6 hooks, otherwise your opponent gets buff.
So basically the first chase determines the whole match?
This is something that BHVR needs to look at before the changes go live. All the anti-tunneling stuff should be disabled once 3 gens are completed. I think that would be a very good compromise. The anti tunnel is meant to discourage killers from tunneling someone out early in the game when it’s not necessary. Later in the game it is far more justifiable and should not be considered “tunneling” at that point, especially if the killer is losing badly and can’t do anything else to secure a kill.
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This is correct. The SBMM system is effectively non-functional, and it’s the biggest balance problem with the game - far bigger than any survivor vs killer balance issues. Whether I’m playing as killer or survivor, the skill level of other players in my lobbies is completely random. There wouldn’t be any complaints about balance if players were actually matched with other players of similar skill level on a consistent basis.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992376#Comment_3992376
you guys really struggle to read patchnotes I think, if you don't hook the same person twice in a row it's pretty much only basekit buffs for killers, free BBQ chilli/free POP/free haste
survivors get bonuses ONLY if you're hard tunneling it's conditional… it's a net buff if you choose to chase someone else, the only question mark is the 6 hook states thing
I did read the patch notes, but thanks for the condescending reply anyway.
I don’t want to have to pick and choose what survivors I can chase and down. You know what happens sometimes? Sometimes after I hook someone, I happen to stumble upon that same survivor I last hooked working on a gen or healing. With the new rules now I have to ignore that survivor and pretend they don’t exist or else I get punished. I used to be able to chase whoever I wanted, but I guess that’s not allowed anymore because it isn’t “fair”.
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@NovaliumTS said:
Honestly reading everything about his patch seems great
It might actually revive the survivor players by making it so not every game is a confirmed loss
Killer players will now get into matches much faster because of it aswell they get basekit bbq!
Literally all killer players need to do is not tunnel and theyre given really decent basekit buffs
Survivor players will be able to live for more than 5 minutes :D
As i see this patch going is tweaking it a lil finally bringing survivors back, then once the game is in a better position FINALLY working on survivor gen issue, because honestly people just saying gens should just take longer please just NO, give survivors a new objective to do heck i wouldnt even mind if it took longer to do then gens if its not just sat on a gen for 100 seconds like i loved the idea of the blood gens (though they definitely couldve taken longer to fill and reward all survivors who worked on it and not just the one to complete it) but 100% you cannot nerf gens until you get rid of the 1v3 meta without completely eradicating what remains of the survivor player base.
Every game is a confirmed loss for survivors? Average escape rate of 40% says that is not true. What is your escape rate?
My past 30 days has been over 50% escape rate (solo queue only). And it’s not just me escaping and everyone else dying. I’ve had several games recently with 4 escapes or where killer DCd because they were losing so badly.
The game is very winnable as survivor, even without all these upcoming changes. It’s really disappointing to see such a knee-jerk reaction by BHVR to address issues that I really don’t see as prevalent when I play survivor. The average kill rate is right where the devs are targeting, so I don’t understand why killer side deserves a massive nerf. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992158#Comment_3992158
BHVR doesn't really care about accessibility. That's kind of the thing. They only care when they get bad PR about it, see colorblind settings.
Or the visual terror radius that ended up being a big buff for all survivor players, then ignoring killer players who asked for something similar.
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@sinkra said:
It's not uncommon for killer mains to have an average kill rate of 70%. Some even with 80%. The concept of "win streaks" should never be possible in a competitive pvp game with mmr. The game just became an ego boost for killer mains where survivors were just supposed to be punching bags for a killer's enjoyment. Survivors no longer wanted to play and were leaving the game in droves. The devs are finally taking action to level the playing field, and now killers will finally see what their true skill level is. In the long run these changes will make the game more enjoyable for everyone though, except streamers who can't boast about 1k win streaks anymore.
Just out of curiosity, do you actually play killer yourself? If so, can you share your stats?
You say that you’re surprised about killer players’ reactions to these proposed changes, but if you don’t play killer, then how can you have any perspective at all about why some killer players are concerned about these changes?
The biggest problem with these balance arguments and why it so often turns into “us vs them” is because there are many people who never bother to play one side or the other. Putting yourself in the shoes of the “killer mains” might help you gain some perspective about their concerns.
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@katoptris said:
You do realize this is a ptb which means testing. If it doesn't work then it back to the drawing board.
When has that ever happened? This biggest complaint about PTB is that it’s essentially pointless because nearly all the bugs and broken stuff for either side still gets pushed to the live game.
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@sinkra said:
It's not uncommon for killer mains to have an average kill rate of 70%. Some even with 80%. The concept of "win streaks" should never be possible in a competitive pvp game with mmr. The game just became an ego boost for killer mains where survivors were just supposed to be punching bags for a killer's enjoyment. Survivors no longer wanted to play and were leaving the game in droves. The devs are finally taking action to level the playing field, and now killers will finally see what their true skill level is. In the long run these changes will make the game more enjoyable for everyone though, except streamers who can't boast about 1k win streaks anymore.
Yes, some killer players have higher than average kill rates. But some have a lower than average kill rate. Just like on the survivor side some survivor players escape more frequently than others. This is called a skill curve - some players are better than others. You can’t balance a side based on the fact that the top performers do better than the average player. All that does is make the game miserable for the majority who are not in the top percentiles of performance.
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@sinkra said:
It's not uncommon for killer mains to have an average kill rate of 70%. Some even with 80%. The concept of "win streaks" should never be possible in a competitive pvp game with mmr. The game just became an ego boost for killer mains where survivors were just supposed to be punching bags for a killer's enjoyment. Survivors no longer wanted to play and were leaving the game in droves. The devs are finally taking action to level the playing field, and now killers will finally see what their true skill level is. In the long run these changes will make the game more enjoyable for everyone though, except streamers who can't boast about 1k win streaks anymore.
What evidence do you have that survivor players are “leaving the game in droves”?
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Playing against a slugging Twins, which was pretty much every single one based on my experience, was pretty damn miserable. I’m totally fine with this.
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Yeah, both those killers need to be heavily nerfed or just deleted from 2v8 altogether. Their powers are just not a fit for this mode. In most games where there’s a Legion and/or Oni, one or more teammates just stands motionless and lets the killer down them because of how unfun it is going against these killers, screwing over the rest of the team and turning it into and unwinnable game.
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It sounds nice, but BHVR has left a lot of older killers in the trash bin for years. As the amount of content and the amount of bugs in the game keeps growing larger and larger, there’s even less resource available to update older killers that badly need it. I wouldn’t get your hopes up.
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Enough with the divisive “us vs them” posts making broad generalizations about people who play killer. These types of posts are by far the biggest source of toxicity on these forums and I hope the mods finally do something about them because they’ve been especially bad since the recent changes were announced. We wouldn’t see these if people bothered playing both sides.
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The game won’t die, but survivor queue times may get longer if the kill rates drop significantly. Before patch 6.1, I remember waiting 15-20 minutes to survivor matches during peak evening hours.
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@sinkra said:
They're doing this because of how many survivors are leaving the game with how killer sided it got.
What evidence do you have that survivors are leaving the game?
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@sinkra said:
Think about it, it means as soon as it gets to 2 survivors it means auto 4k. As soon as killer hooks one they see aura of remaining survivor, so no chance of a save or getting hatch. It means stealth is dead.
Lockers. They exist for a reason
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990742#Comment_3990742
I don't need to give a poop sandwich a chance to know it tastes like #########.
Look, if it sucks for killers when it goes live, I’ll be right there with you protesting this. We have no idea what this is going to really be like when it goes live. The only way to really know, objectively, is to see what happens to kill rates. If the kill rates go down, we’ll see killer players leave the game in large numbers again like they did before the 6.1 patch.
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I play both sides about 50/50 and I’m willing to give it a chance. I’m just tired of the incredibly toxic “us vs them” posts that have started popping up again. Hopefully those will be dealt with. Would be nice to be able to have a civil discussion about the changes.
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I play both sides about equally. I know there are a lot of people who play killer who are upset, but let’s see how this plays out first. I’m willing to give it a chance. If playing killer becomes miserable, we will quickly see survivor queues become insanely long like they were before the 6.1 patch. If that happens again, we’ll likely see buffs to killer again like we did with 6.1
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Killer queues are already ridiculously long. If anything, killer in 2v8 needs to be more difficult to disincentivize killer role and incentivize survivor role. For those complaining about killer side in 2v8, everyone else waiting for 30 minutes will happily take your spot in the queue.
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No, it doesn’t seem harder to me
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@IrisLP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989109#Comment_3989109
I didn't know people defended this behavior. I guess you're playing anonymous. Ok
Please explain how I was defending the behavior. The point of my comment was that OP is making a broad, insulting generalization about people who choose to use anonymous mode based on their experience with a few players out of the millions of players globally.
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@IrisLP said:
You can see the video here
This person didn't troll just once; Meg did it with several people throughout the match. Including the Feng in the video and me. And the anonymous Meg player was the only one who escaped. Needless to say, Meg was just touching engines to avoid the AFK crow and then simply leaving the area (as shown by her score). Several survivors have done this the past two weeks, and I've reported them for unsportsmanlike behavior, but I don't see any action being taken (at least I haven't received any feedback). I'm tired of anonymous people taking advantage of this kind of thing. I often have to dodge lobbies to avoid playing with anons. At least 2vs8 finds a lobby quickly, but that doesn't happen on normal matches. It's incredibly tiring to find people who are just going to troll in this game and see BHVR take no action against them. Anonymity only fuels this kind of behavior. SoloQ keeps dying. Please, remove anonymous mode or do something about these kind of behavior pls.A few people you have seen in the past few week = “most” of the millions of players globally? Ok
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988993#Comment_3988993
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/478-stats-october-2024
Actually the kill rate last year was 57%, but remember killer mains complained so much that it was too survivor sided so these devs kep nerfing survivor and aim for 70% kill rate now, but are too ashamed to show us the new 2v8 stats.
please stop making up numbers. Mandy just confirmed that 70% is not accurate.
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This is a very good question. Based on how messy recent content releases have been, it seems like BHVR are already having a really hard time keeping up with the current release schedule. Old content and existing bugs basically get low to no priority because there’s not enough resource. The “to do” list just piles up more and more with every new chapter, and they aren’t adding any more people to help tackle the list, so they fall further and further behind.
Normally this would be a “death spiral” type situation, but BHVR have been able to get away with it because people keep playing the game and spending money on it despite the increasingly sloppy content releases. That’s the benefit of no competition. If there is ever serious competition, or the content releases become so messy that large numbers of players leave, it could get ugly very quickly. -
Zombies have been bug-ridden and generally useless since Nemesis was first released. If they haven’t fixed zombies by now, I doubt they ever will.