I_Cant_Loop
I_Cant_Loop
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Weren’t you encouraging a survivor boycott because BHVR delayed the anti-slugging changes?
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001330#Comment_4001330
Yes, it basically takes a fully coordinated SWF to defeat any killer where A) the player isn't completely braindead, and B) the killer isn't F-tier like SM.
Because the game is killer-sided right now, but they're supposedly working on it, lol
Ok, whatever. Keep pretending that survivors never, ever win. I play solo queue and as long as I have teammates who are semi-competent, we can win on a regular basis.
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@TheTom20 said:
Today when i played survivor i had multiple people doing nothing hiding etc
switch to killer and had teams every game in a row with gens being slammed at lightning speed multiple flashlight saves pallet saves tons of body blocks were was all that in my survivor matches lol.Lol this often happens to me too. I almost never run into the same kind of survivor teams that refuse to do gens when I’m playing killer, but when I play survivor it happens all too often.
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Legion is a noob-stomper. Against newer players, it’s a very easy win because the survivors spend the whole match fully healing after getting injured and never working on gens. They typically won’t play staying injured, which is the correct strategy against Legion. Against experienced survivors who are comfortable staying injured while working on gens, Legion is incredibly weak because they have no chase power to get the down after someone is already injured.
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@Caiman said:
BHVR won't even ban people from this forum for acting abusive.
That’s not true at all. I’ve seen lots of people banned on this forum. I wish BHVR put in the same amount of effort in banning people for post-game chat abuse, I’ve never seen it happen there.
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Boon: Reverse Ruin. While the boon totem is active, all generators without survivors actively repairing them automatically progress at 1% per second
😉
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Weren’t you encouraging a survivor boycott because of the delay of the anti-tunnel/anti-slug mechanics?
I’m so confused right now…
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000899#Comment_4000899
Check steamdb the game had between 80k and 120k from june to august, it's dropping hard and the next few months of hard tunneling meta aren't going to help
I suspect the hype for krasue chapter isn't that high all the good stuff is deleted, ironically new killer is S tier tunneler
You are incorrect
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@Foggyguy said:
Looks to the playercount loosing the players from FNAF. Yeah I think you might be onto something there with bleeding players. Imagine if they made the game tolerable for new players who would then spend even more money on the game? The devs would be rolling in money.
The game has always lost players in the months after big chapter releases. This proves nothing. Go look at the history on Steamcharts.
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@MostBestPlayer said:
I am not playing a game as pig in an open map where i get my first hook at almost 2 gens left, no point anymore
This would destroy the game. Killers would leave matches at the slightest inconvenience, constantly ruining games for survivors. The DC penalty exists exactly to prevent this kind of selfishness from ruining other players’ experience.
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Nope - I’m gonna keep playing
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999768#Comment_3999768
They know this. People around here are just intentionally misconstruing the situation to play into a victim narrative.
The developers were very clear that the systems will be returning after being tweaked. People are intentionally ignoring that because it doesn't fit their agenda. And it's painfully obvious because no one will comment on it further than issuing downvotes to anyone who points it out.
Yep - it’s the usual “us vs them” agitators that are hiding behind the downvote system and anonymously lobbing bombs rather than replying to defend their positions.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
All I can say is I hope to God they don't keep Legion in it… otherwise forget it, I would rather just stick with normal queues.
LOL I was about to say post exactly the same thing and then I saw your comment. Yeah, Legion made 2v8 absolutely miserable. Most people I played with would just give up immediately when they saw it was Legion and it was a race to see who could get themselves eliminated first so they could go next. In my matches as Killer I mostly played as Wraith, and when I had a Legion partner my wasn’t even fair for the survivors. We would just wipe the floor with them because I was able to sneak up on and down injured survivors constantly. In one match there were still 5 gens left unfinished when we killed everyone, which is stupidly busted.
I had a lot of fun as survivor in the matches without Legion, but especially in the last few days it seems like just about every match had Legion and it was super unfun. I will likely just take a break from the game altogether if they keep Legion in the next 2v8 event. -
@sinkra said:
Because killers found it annoying, like every other survivor nerf.
This happens on both sides, as much as you pretend it doesn’t
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@sinkra said:
The casual survs all quit.
good - hopefully I will have consistently better solo queue teammates then.
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@PyramidFootLicker said:
Please don't say distortion, literally tokens now burn out completely for me during chase as I get them and the moment they start recharging the killer breaks chase and goes somewhere else and the process repeats itself, I spend the game constantly recharging one token that gets destroyed the instant I have it again.
it's getting to a point where solo-queue just seems unfun against pure aura reading builds, no suspense, just the assumption that the killer knows where you are thank god for scene partner sometimes but at least with stealth killers having aura reading built into their kit makes sense but plague for example? aura vomit with lethal and other aura perks? might as well just rush the gens before she can even walk to the other side of the map or hope you don't play around loops with large walls.
Distortion was a great way to counter the aura reading meta, but obviously that perk got nuked into oblivion and nobody uses it anymore. BHVR wanted the stealth playstyle gone, forcing everyone to play a chase-oriented playstyle. On one hand, I think it’s good that survivors are now more often forced to be good at chases, but I personally enjoy a bit of both stealth and chase playstyles, so I was really disappointed that BHVR basically told survivors “nope, you can’t play that way anymore.”
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999933#Comment_3999933
got an official source for that?
as for asymmetry: in a 1v4, the four survivors scale with coordination and shared resources, while the killer is a single point of pressure. If both sides play clean, gens finish unless the killer has extra agency (mobility/info/slowdown) to force downs—so balance must lean killer enough to prevent stalemates. “killer-sided” here means sufficient threat to punish mistakes and actually resolve matches, not “killer should auto-win.”
I think they’re referring to the 60% kill rate target. A lot of people believe this is “unfair” and “favors the killer side.” It’s subjective and everyone is going to have a different opinion about what is “fair”.
BHVR’s job is to get the most number of people playing and in the right ratio to reduce queue times. They’re not going to please everyone and it’s just a reality that no matter what they do, some people will quit or threaten to quit.
Like it or not, 60% kill rate seems to be the sweet spot for accomplishing the above objectives. I remember how long survivor queues were during peak hours back before killers were buffed in the 6.1 patch. Survivor queues are still longer than killer queues during these hours, but it’s much better than it used to be. Playing killer feels a lot less frustrating as well. And as someone who plays both sides, actually survivor a bit more than killer, the 60% target feels pretty fair to me.
I’ve seen many opinions here that the target kill rate should be 50% instead of 60%. Just consider for a moment what that would mean. The current average kill rate for killers going against 4-man SWF at high MMR is still over 50%. So these people want the average game for average killers of average skill going against non-premade teams to be even more difficult than that. Doing so would likely mean a mass exodus of killer players across all levels.With that said, I’ll now happily open it up for downvotes 😉
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It’s not a party game if it requires thousands of hours to get really good at, which is true for most players. It’s far too complicated and skill ceiling is far too high to be considered a party game.
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@CrypticGirl said:
Killers can still tunnel whether survivors are skilled or not. So quit acting like tunneling is always the survivors' fault when the killer makes that choice.
I lose far more matches to bad teammates than to tunneling
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This is exactly what I have been saying for a long time. The biggest problem with solo queue, by a mile, is bad teammates who get downed 5 seconds after chase starts, hide in a corner at the slightest hint of a terror radius even when it’s clear someone else is being chased, or just flat out refusing to touch gens. None of those things have anything to do with the killer vs survivor balance. When I have competent teammates in solo queue, the matches are almost always fun and competitive.
I fully understand that not everyone is going to be great at the game. I was a brand new player once too, and I’m sure I frustrated plenty of teammates with my poor skills. But I put in effort to get better at the game instead of blaming it on bad game balance.
If BHVR seriously wants to improve the solo queue experience, especially for experienced players, the #1 priority HAS to be fixing the non-functional SBMM system. Measuring player skill has to be based on more than kills/escapes alone, and the matchmaking system has to be much better at consistently putting players of relatively same skill level together. Survivors have to be rewarded with higher MMR scores if they play really well and still die because they got tunneled or they had bad teammates. They need to be punished with lower MMR scores if they do nothing and still escape through exit gates somehow. I really don’t care if that means the queue time have to be longer. I will gladly trade that for competent teammates. The current matchmaking system literally matches me with brand new players in some of my lobbies every time I play. This cannot happen anymore. -
Just ignore them - that’s honestly the best solution. If I know the survivors are waiting at the gate, I’ll either go find pallets to break or tab out and do something else until match is over. I don’t feel strongly like there needs to be anything done about this. Let survivors waste their time at the gate amusing themselves if they want to.
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@brewingtea said:
If it was 80/20 it would be even, since it's an asym game.
The fact that we're treating 50% killers (over twice what it should be!) as if that was "balanced" just proves that killers are over-represented in the feedback.
I guess BHVR balances the game by Electoral College, lol
They balance the game around a target kill rate of 60%, which is exactly where it’s at.
I feel like we’ve been over this before already, but some people actually play both sides. This is not an “us vs them” vote of 80% survivor-only players vs 20% killer-only players, as much as some on this forum want it to be. A lot of people (like myself) play both sides and will shout loudly if something hurts killers too much and will also shout loudly if something hurts survivors too much. These people, who are not all evil “killer mains”, are now shouting loudly that the changes were bad and overly punishing for the killer side.
The concept is good, but it needs more work. I am optimistic we can get some changes that will reduce the unfun aspects of tunneling and slugging without overly punishing killers for playing normally and thus moving too far away from that target kill rate. -
@Ryan489x said:
Almost any major change to the game doesn’t make it past a PTB. Were those the right changes to fight tunning. No they weren’t and some of us knew right off the bat. However since they canceled them it’s been all over social media that the community saved DBD by complaining. When the reality those changes were never going to make it past a PTB and we all knew it. Now killers have just been given a green light to tunnel and it’s just got even worse.
Thats because the changes were way too impactful on game balance. The devs have said forever that they are targeting a 60% kill rate (yes I know some people have made it very clear they think this is very bad and unfair). Disincentivizing slugging and tunneling is totally fine as long as it is not tilting the balance too far away from this target kill rate. These recent changes clearly were, so they need time to be adjusted. I think the devs have the right idea here, just needs some more time and testing for balance. I don’t disagree with the fundamental concept of these changes at all.
Most of the people who are upset are the ones we have seen on the forums calling for killer nerfs on a daily basis for months or even years because it’s always “us vs them” and “them” are the bad guys and “us” are the good guys and they don’t care how negatively any change impacts the bad guys.
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@brewingtea said:
Killer mains weren't outraged because one of the values was off by just 2.
When they try again, they'll be outraged again, and they'll get their way again. The exact values do not matter.
Maybe BHVR wouldn’t take people’s opinions more serious if they didn’t use the words “killer main” in a derogatory way in literally every single comment. I’m glad they are tuning out the toxic “us vs them” garbage.
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@Mafilovy said:
This is a bit of a rant discussion, but would love to see what other stories people have to share, I have reported around 5+ cheaters since the start of the year, have filled a ticket on them, given all the sluggish details they ask of me plus video proof, yet here I am, going against the SAME cheater I reported like 4+ MONTHS ago, and they were holding people hostage again, HOW MANY reports per day does this player get??? How many TICKETS per day do they get??? WHY are they still playing the game???, I have gotten NO notifications for any actions being taken on any of the cheaters I have filled a ticket on with video proof.
What are yall doing?Same for post-game chat harassment. I’ve reported people for saying racist things, wishing harm on my family, telling me to off myself, etc and not a single response from BHVR. Apparently there are no consequences for this stuff.
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Thank you for writing a fair analysis that considers the impacts of these changes on both sides instead of the toxic “us vs them” garbage that we’ve been bombarded with all weekend by people who don’t bother to look at this from both angles. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of downvotes from those folks because you didn’t criticize the “killer mains”.
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@3AMandLost said:
we were just doing fine when there was no basekit BT, anti camp meter, or suggested anti slug and anti tunnel mechanics. why this sudden uproar of survivors needing 1000 things in their basekit to play the match, tunneling, slugging, camping has always existed but that never made me quit the game
It will never be enough for some people
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998435#Comment_3998435
Please show us a single killer player who has ever seriously demanded a 70-80% kill rate as the average.
Every killer that does a 1000 4K win streak.
Or every killer that loses with Trapper and says, "I'm going to play Nurse as revenge!" News flash: They're not doing so because her kill rate is LOW.
That's the problem. Y'all claim those are "outliers" while saving them in your pocket for when YOU need them. The nice smooth bell curve only works if the pick rates are the same. If you can just DECIDE when you "deserve" a 4K (as opposed to letting skill and circumstance dictate that, like in a normal game) then you are "seriously demanding a 70-80% kill rate". Maybe not as an "average" but certainly not in a "random, bell curve" way AT ALL.
”Every killer that does a 1000 4K win streak”
So that’s like what, 3 people ever out of the millions who play this game? Clearly a huge balance problem.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997809#Comment_3997809
So, what was your kill rate on the supposedly survivor-sided PTB?
What is your kill rate in this supposedly extremely killer-sided game?
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@sinkra said:
Only killers have this mentality. Killers want a game with a 70% kill rate, some even boast about their 80% kill rate. Killers want a game where they can go on 1k win streaks. Survivors just want a fair game. But all the big streamers are killer mains, so devs only listen to them.
Please show us a single killer player who has ever seriously demanded a 70-80% kill rate as the average.
Do you still not understand that some killers will always have an above-average kill rate? You keep quoting 70 and 80% kill rates like it’s “normal”. The average is 60%. Remember the bell curve?
See the part way to the right? This is where the 70-80% kill rates are. A vast majority of the killer population is not there. Half of the killer players are below the 60% average.
I don’t expect this will ever change your opinion, so I’m glad that people who actually understand this are the ones making balance decisions.
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@sinkra said:
Killers better get ready for very long queues even after 2v8 ends, because survivors are boycotting the game until the devs make it fair like every other pvp game.
If survivors who are demanding a guaranteed 50% escape rate are boycotting the game, honestly as a survivor player I am very excited about that. I would rather have teammates who have a good understanding of the game on both sides and not feel entitled to have EZ escapes handed to them.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998171#Comment_3998171
Yeah - she seems fun.
Just seems weird to see so much backlash against BHVR's post here when it doesn't seem like there was much positive sentiment in the real world.
It’s because most of the influential streamers/content creators actually play both sides and thus understand when something is overly busted on one side or the other. It’s not universal, but agree that it’s hard to find prominent voices in the community who argued that these changes were fair in their current state.
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@Amanova said:
I'm not going to stay in the match any longer if they decided to tunnel someone specifically from the start and we barely managed to repair 3 gen or slugging from the start, I'm not interested in pleasing the ego of such toxic killers, the match is already clearly over for us so just add abandon in this case in the next update since you are not going to fix the problem with tunneling and slugging and I doubt it will be fixed in the upcoming years
Demanding that it’s unfair and you should be able to quit if the killer kills anyone before 4 gens are completed basically sums up everything we’ve seen on this forum over the past couple of days.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997997#Comment_3997997
But unless you can prove the dataset contains impossible matches, it is a valid dataset that disproves your theory. Its existence proves your assertion that a 60% KR predominantly produces 2Ks baseless.
I just went on Nightlight and uploaded some matches from random endgame screenshots I found on Google. According to Nightlight, I now have a 100% escape rate.
Do you still really want to stand behind your position that this is a valid data source that we and the devs should use to draw conclusions about game balance with? -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997763#Comment_3997763
I am the average killer at average MMR and the buffs were extremely appealing to me.
Sorry if I was unclear in what I was referring to in my comment. This specific comment you are replying to wasn’t about the anti-tunnel/anti-slug stuff. It was addressing the overall balance question - essentially what should the “target” escape rate be. My comment was directed at those who feel that it should be 50% average across all survivor players rather than 40%.
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@BoopsPlease said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998004#Comment_3998004
50% like any BALANCED game should be.
The latest average escape rate for survivors at 4-man SWF at high MMR (so the most difficult level for killers) is 48%, according to BHVR stats. So what you want is for the average killer at average level to have an even more difficult experience than this? I am just wondering if you are considering this at all.
I truly believe we need a game mode where survivor players can go against bot killers and adjust the difficulty level to their liking, because that is the only way some people are going to be happy. -
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997988#Comment_3997988
Why do you think an individuals stats matter for anything and why are you deflecting unless you know I'm right?
Ok if I’m not allowed to have an opinion based on my on experience, then let’s use the overall escape rate stats. On average, survivors escape 40% of the time. Apparently this is way too killer-sided. So what should the average escape rate be then? At high MMR 4-man SWF it’s 45%. I have no idea what my MMR is but I do know what when I face a full team of coordinated SWF who are all very good at looping I have to sweat my butt off to get kills. I’m not a god-level killer and I don’t play the s-tier killers. Maybe I’m just very bad at killer, but I’ve seen plenty of other killer players on this forum with similar feedback. Is this game only going to be not “killer-sided” if the average escape rate is 45% or higher for all players?
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Nightlight is not even close to a reliable data source. It’s self-reporting and a very small sample size.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997976#Comment_3997976
I almost never lose on killer in 1vs4. I literally don't remember when I lost the last time. This was not the case 2 or 3 years ago when I had to work for wins.
SoloQ experience has gotten worser and worser over the years. I just want twd achievement and then Im probably done. Swf is only way to go.
Why don’t you play competitively then? I’m not trying to be rude - it’s a serious question. If you are that good, you could make some money in competitions or streaming.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997973#Comment_3997973
Doesn't change that it absolutely, pertinently -does not- work like that.
2Ks are, far and away, the least likely outcome, not the most likely.
Where is the data to show that 2ks are the least likely outcome? I’ve never seen BHVR post that kind of data before. Maybe I just missed it
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997976#Comment_3997976
Not the same guy but come on dude, you have to be willfully blind and deaf at this point to not see how blatantly the game is killer sided. Fog vials got essentially removed in less than a week and ghoul got a tiny slap on the wrist after several months and a few events ruined by him.
I just posted my stats to show that I play survivor more than I play killer and I fully disagree with you. Is my opinion only valid if I agree with you?
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997856#Comment_3997856
Awe, punishing killer for tunneling and slugging? What a shame.
What is the purpose of this comment other than fanning the flames of the “us vs them” toxicity? It’s really getting old.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997752#Comment_3997752
We know which side they love. They give filtered feedback to the devs which is why the game is so incredibly killer sided.
What is your average escape rate? I want to understand why you believe the game is so “killer sided.”
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997694#Comment_3997694
The average
killrate is 60%, which means on average, the most common outcomes are 2-3K, with 2K (which is a draw for the killer) being more common than 3KThis is NOT how you calculate winrate from killrate and has been debunked ad nauseam. It has to stop spreading.
I’m not trying to calculate a win rate. I understand that win rate is a totally different thing. I’m explaining what the 60% kill rate means about the average outcome of all games in terms of kills and escapes. If someone wants to point me to official BHVR data showing the “win rate” for each side, I’m happy to listen and draw different conclusions based on the data.
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@naeveragedjoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997786#Comment_3997786
you play both sides almost evenly! 🙂
my survivors stats are a bit... well. lol but its cause i like trying to help my teammates a tad bit too much and end up putting their survival over mine.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/881WUL6FKYOP/screenshot-20250906-121506.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YMG2VHVHMDI1/screenshot-20250906-122514.png
we gonna live forever was never out of my builds when it had the bloodpoint bonus 😂 bbq too, but when i got to buy from the shrine it was changed soon after
Yeah I always find it amusing when I am accused of being a “killer main” or favoring the killer side too much. I actually have more survivor matches than killer matches in my stats. And then the same people always downvote me when I prove that even a very casual player like myself can do just fine in solo queue. I guess it’s easier for them to complain and downvote than actually try to improve their own gameplay
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IMG_8774.jpeg IMG_8775.jpeg IMG_8776.jpeg
I posted recent survivor stats as well because I’ve definitely improved over time and I’m sure my early gameplay weighed down my escape rate 🙂. I play solo queue, so I am showing this to prove that it’s not as “impossible” or “one-sided” as many claim if you know how to play the game.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997711#Comment_3997711
Except this isn't a "both sides" scenario. Only killers want the game to be unbalanced in their favor. Survivors are simply asking for a more fair game, which means a kill rate closer to 50% than what it is now.
See response to your last comment. I don’t think you understand (either that or you don’t care) about the impact of demanding that BHVR make the average game for the average killer at average MMR even more difficult than playing killer against 4-man SWF at high MMR.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997736#Comment_3997736
Because the devs don't understand this is a competitive pvp game where balance should be 50%, they think it's a role-playing horror game where survivors are supposed to enjoy dying most of the time because it's scary or something.
Fortunately, the devs make balance decisions based on what keeps the largest number of people playing on both sides, not based on “oh we have to guarantee that even bad players escape at least half the time.” Think about this: Average escape rate for high MMR SWF is around 45% and ask anyone who actually plays killer at that level what is feels like to play unless you bring the highest tier killers and perks. At best, it’s very hard work to secure more than 2K. If you have personal experience to prove otherwise, please share.
Now you are demanding that we make the average game for the average killer player even more difficult than that at average MMR and non-SWF games. This is why I’m glad BHVR is listening to people who know the game on both sides and not from people who have no idea and/or don’t care about the impact it will have for the “other side”. -
@UndeddJester said:
I feel like this has only gotten worse since the downvote system came back in.
Used to be that when people disagreed they had to respond and back up their point with receipts to argue for their side, and that inherently makes it harder to be tribal, cause receipts takes effort, and the argument with more receipts tended to win.
Now we have it so any argument with evidence and effort, but going against someone's narrative or pointing out facts that people don't want to hear, can instead just be ratiod and ignored... allows people to stick in their tribal echo chamber.
100% agree. Now people can anonymously lob bombs at the side they don’t like instead of actually having to form a rational or fact-based response. It has made the toxicity on this forum worse for sure and there’s literally no reason for the function to exist. I really don’t understand why whoever brought the downvote function back thought it was a good idea.
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95% of the toxic “us vs them” posts would disappear if people were required to play both sides.