Hex_UrbanEvasion
Hex_UrbanEvasion
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@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1843480#Comment_1843480
This "contract" ur referring to, is the invisible survivor rulebook made by entitled survivors. This rulebook only applies to killers, by the survivors. Survivors do not have to follow any rules. Doesn't matter what's intended for or not. Killers at least "try" to follow the rulebook. Survivors don't have a rulebook. They are immune to any rules, and have no Honor. Survivors just do what they want. Especially complain.
The point system changed over time to punish camping only cuz entitled survivors complained so much about it. Camping is a viable strategy.
For the 1000th time. Every just needs to play how they want. That is the only rule that everyone should follow. All other rules and contracts are just a person's personal opinion.
Sounds like the words of a killer with a victim mentality.
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I hit red ranks, just rank 4, and immediately the fun of the game evaporated. It's super sweaty, survivors get pissed at you for stupid reasons, and killers are mean and think that the only person whose fun matters is their own. Everyone uses [BAD WORD] strategies to win because they can't do it any other way, and if their usual strat isn't working, they ragequit. There's maybe a handful of rank 1 players who actually deserve to be there, because they're really that good. They don't have to do dumb [BAD WORD] for a 4k and ruin everyone else's match just to prove a point.
Doesn't matter what people say about this game being survivor-sided. If a killer doesn't want you to have a good game, you won't. And they'll treat you like a bot or a stupid child and give absolutely zero [BAD WORD]. They'll tell you "It's just a game lol why u mad," and "I'm the killer I'm doing my job," ignoring that a survivor's "job" is to try to survive, but if a killer decides they don't want them to do that, because [insert ridiculous made-up reason], it's totally acceptable?
The things survivors get mad about, and build to avoid, are things that make games short, boring, and a waste of time. The things killers get mad about are largely things they perceive as "threatening" that... aren't. They just don't want to lose because they base their success as killer on 4Ks and how fast they can end a match.
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Okay that video was insanely helpful. I know one of my friends likes to keep track of the gen:surv ratio, but I guess I forget the hatch spawn rules.
Now that I understand better, I like it even more. I've just been basing all of my thoughts on keys around a different tier of play.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1843455#Comment_1843455
I like how ######### up this comment is.
You in the same breath recognize the emotions that cause people to really not like certain things the survivors do that radically shift the win condition of the game, yet deny the validity of wanting the ability to do it yourself. It feels like you think of killer players as subhuman: your more upset with the REACTION to a negative play experience than a negative play experience.
If you bring a key to allow you and a friend to escape despite only doing 3 gens instead of 5, why should the killer not be allowed to bring a tool that lets them remove you from the game at 2 won chases instead of 3? Keys remove more game time from the survivor objective, assuming a duo, 40% even ignoring gates, compared to Moris removing 33%.
While I think Moris are broken, acting like killers don't have good reason to be MASSIVELY upset by this very obvious preferential treatment towards survivors here sucks and is scummy.
Okay clearly I need someone to explain what the [BAD WORD] deal is with [BAD WORD] keys. At this point, I don't bring them into a match unless I need it for a challenge, and even then, I'm extremely reluctant because I'd like to actually play and not just get my [BAD WORD] kicked in because a killer thinks I'm going to... I don't even know. Herd the whole survivor team out through the hatch? Most of the time, if I have a challenge like that, I just have to get it done in a farming match.
And please don't tell me that if I want to use a key, I need to "git gud." I've tried using them, and I've been summarily tunneled, mori'd, and hit with Franklin's. I get it, killers hate them. I just don't see why it makes them lose their minds.
And I'd really like to have characters in outfits I like without them assuming I'm in comms or looking to bully them. Same [BAD WORD] happens, only not the Franklin's because my clothes aren't going to let me escape while the killer isn't paying attention.
Edit: Upon reviewing your comment, I realize that I am reacting negatively to a reaction to a negative experience. So no, I'm not mad at the killers and I don't see them as subhuman. They just drive me bonkers when they do this [BAD WORD] because I have no idea what's going on, nor what could possibly make them want to punish me for bringing in an object that, at this point, is just a source of fear for me.
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@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1841732#Comment_1841732
Everyone gets facecamped every once in a while. But it doesn't happen very often.
It happens to me multiple times in a night. Usually the same couple players.
But that's not what I'm here about. I just want to remind OP and everyone who disagrees with OP that no, you can't expect everyone to play by your rules, and no, you won't get along with everyone in the game, and no, you're not entitled to wins. However, the social contract of the game, as unenforceable and unstable as it is, does at least suggest that the game be played, like, for fun and entertainment, and that playing "as intended," per se, will net you more points and rank increases. It's not that someone has to play in a self-sacrificing manner and let the other side walk all over them, it's that, in some ways, killers and survivors have to work "together" to make the most of each match. If you don't believe that, consider what happens when you do have a match against a face camper. Whoever is camped is basically sacrificed for the rest of the team, and whoever escapes the match (if they're lucky enough to escape) leaves with such a pitiful score that they might even de-pip, and they'll have maybe enough BP to get two items off a bloodweb. Survivors need to be hit and hooked and chased off gens to rack up points, and killers need survivors to be unhooked and escape and work on gens for them to rack up points of their own. If one side chooses to say "[BAD WORD] points, I just want to ruin their game," it violates the weird contract set up, but there's nothing you or anyone can do about it.
Except the devs. And it seems like perhaps, they aren't very concerned with that contract or the people involved, because it doesn't appear they do much to discourage that. And this isn't just the face campers, it's also the people who come into endgame chat just to tell you to ######### and list off all the racial slurs they know.
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You know, you howl about the mori change, but they were literally just used to punish survivors the killer was mad at. It's not like they were fun. They just knocked a third of the time off your match, and presumably, let you murder that pink-haired Nea or Steve with a key that you were grinding your gears about when you saw them in the lobby. No idea if they're actually a SWF death squad out to get you, no idea if they're even good players, no idea if the key is even good enough to open a hatch or just a Broken Key with some aura add-ons. You read the room and freaked out.
Moris were a panic button and a way to bully someone else before you could get bullied. The change is fine.
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@SasukeKun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1836789#Comment_1836789
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837444#Comment_1837444
theres things that survivor has that are just as ridiculous soooo, like the fact that dead hard creates more distance than just dodging a melee. it's a 2 for 1
Isn't that literally the point of Dead Hard
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@Teacyn said:
Camping isn't actually an issue in the grand scheme of game balance. If a killer is just sitting in front of a hook or walking back and forth around it constantly, they're going to lose the game very fast against even remotely competent survivors. The only reason it might work out for them is if the killer is using Insidious or something like that, and a survivor runs up to try and rescue you and gets grabbed or downed, and that's a very rare scenario. Against less skilled survivors it can work more frequently because they run up and try to unhook you directly in front of the killer, but that's more an issue with survivor skill. Some people have suggested l1 kindred be made survivor base kit to help counteract this, but if that happens IMO gen kicking should be buffed to compensate (see some recent threads about it)
Camping is mostly an issue in the sense that it absolutely sucks ass for the person getting camped, because it means you're almost certainly going to de-pip, you wasted any item you brought, and you basically didn't get to play that match. There's unfortunately really not any way to fix this without degrading the health of the game itself. Directly punishing killer for staying near hook is going to lead to SWFs abusing the hell out of it and bullying killers out of playing even more.
That last bit is something that gets ignored in a lot of these discussions. For the person being camped, it sucks. Not just because you're gonna die and it's boring, but you finally got into a match and your time was wasted and you're gonna get [BAD WORD] all for bloodpoints.
Here's the other thing significant. The real trouble with campers isn't normal killers trying to guard a hook from a bunch of nutcase SWFs, it's the killers who play with malicious intent, and camping is their chosen method to ruin the game for others. The Insidious Basement Bubbas. You're right that Insidious is the key, here. I pretty much always run Kindred because of them now. That's how often I've encountered them between ranks thirteen and four. Some of them are red rank and probably stay there by playing other killers, because there's no way they don't depip when they sit in the basement all match. For me, they're the problem to solve. Removing their ability to camp effectively removes their ability to disrupt an entire match. Not only will the (most likely) two people they catch and camp be screwed, the two survivors out there desperately banging out gens before the other two die will. You don't get points for playing gen jockey all match. You just maybe get to live.
Unfortunately, taking out the trash would, in this case, harm normal killers. Ain't that a [BAD WORD].
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I'm probably one of the only dweebs who brings broken keys into matches to read auras. But you can make it work at a greater range than Bond, even, and it's not just limited to when someone is hooked, like Kindred. I like the idea of the aura concealment the most out of this, I think. I assume keys would cover one second of aura read per charge? That might need balance,, though. Perhaps the add-on reduces total charges. Obviously, there's already an add-on for reading the killer's aura, would a revamped key add-on also consume more than the usual charges?
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't quite see what is unhealthy about keys. I hear it a lot, but people never explain. The few times I've seen someone use one have been in odd circumstances, usually selfish, and occasionally, I've been forced to try it for a challenge. The reason for the rarity might be because every match I'm in, if a survivor has a key, the killer goes out of their way to remove it from play using Franklin's Demise, tunneling, camping, formerly Ebony Moris, whatever means they deem necessary. It all seems a bit excessive for something that requires at least four generators done or three survivors dead to use.
I like the concept of unlocking using charges, but I think the purple tier key would need to have at least enough to open a hatch fully. Also, probably would need to reduce the number it takes to open the hatch. Twenty seconds is a long time to be stuck in place, oblivious, and unable to stop lest you "break" your key. In the times I've used one, I had about three seconds before the killer would have cut me down mid-unlock. I think requiring that others be present to distract the killer would make keys virtually useless at all levels of play except the very top.
The pallet and door repair sounds a bit more... complex. I think that might be better handled by something else, or perhaps, not included at all. Pallets are, currently, a non-renewable resource that requires survivors to use them with purpose to prevent their waste.
One more thing. Would this make keys usable more than once, without add-ons that prevent their consumption? More like other items, they just sort of grey out, but if you live, you keep them?
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@kaijudane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840332#Comment_1840332
In nearly 2,500 hours of play I've noticed that killers are not as viable without using bbq. Especially when paired with hillbilly, nurse, huntress, blight, spirit, and now almost every killers now that some maps are smaller. You don't get any aura reading with we're gonna live forever.
I think, if killers aren't viable without it, perhaps players are underestimating its value.
And you make a good point. WGLF, the survivor equivalent of BBQ, has no aura reading. It could be combined into a single perk with Kindred, and then I think it would be closer.
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@Witherrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/215847/bbq-suggestion
Bbq is probably the most balanced killer perk in the game. I understand where you're coming from with this but it isn't just simply a bbq problem, it's a bad killer problem. Bbq is probably the healthiest perk in the game as it encourages killers to leave the hook and find other people and reward them for it with extra bloodpoints. If you take bbq away from a baby trapper it isn't gonna make him wanna camp less. It doesn't make sense to get rid of one of its quirks because if you get rid of the aura reading, the perk is completely useless. Killers aren't gonna run basically three perks just to get bp. And if you get rid of the double bp, well.. Why would you? It gives killers the motive to hook others to get stacks and find other people to get more stacks. Killers do use bbq as a substitute deerstalker but i don't see it as a bbq problem, I see that more as just a bad game design problem. If you wanna talk about a perk that encourages hard slugging I think you should take infectious frights into account. Ruin undying doesn't annoy me half as much as this perk does. The amount of times a billy has ended the game by slugging everyone with infectious is sad. And sure they will probably use bbq to find the slugs and get double bp but why would you nerf a perk because it's used the way it wasn't intended to be used? By that logic dead hard should be removed from the game because it's used for distance which wasn't intended for the perk at all. And I'm gonna go ahead and say it iron grasp and insidious do need a rework just so we're on the same level with something, but that isn't the topic
There's a lot to unpack here, and I'm not entirely sure you understood what I said. Either way, the difference between a perk like Dead Hard and BBQ is that Dead Hard does one thing and has a 40 second cooldown. Depending on the survivor, they might use it only three times per match, and it doesn't have the ability to make up for bad gameplay. It's just a single dodge per chase, and it requires timing. BBQ goes off every time you hook someone, and enables gameplay that can completely disrupt the match for the opposing side.
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@OctaviusK said:
Hahaha, I actually laughed at your little rant. Calm down, a frustrating match is due to Bums who just play to rub their wins in others faces or ruin others day. Fortunately the media and the mind exaggerates the trouble-makers making it seem like they're everywhere. In reality they aren't.
Also BBQ is a terrific perk, it forces killers to hook different survivors so tunneling leads to BP Bonus loss, and camping also means no double Bloodpoints.
BBQ also isn't a terrible effective perk either, it has limit to it's Tracking, it can only be used 12 times a game and it only lasts for a couple seconds it also shows far away people so you need to waste time getting to them.
Sorry, but I don't think your rant... Makes any sense. Next time, target Undying and how much fluff it has. Bye!
Hm... I don't know, sounds more like you might have gotten a little too excited about this, if it got you laughing. Perhaps consider that you're suffering from projection as a defense mechanism of some kind. This is just something I've been trying to work out recently. If you don't agree, please find an actual reason for your disagreement, instead of merely describing how the perk works. I can read that in game or on a wiki.
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@diverse394 said:
I didn't read the whole essay but I saw a couple comments on you complaining about BBQ being directly associated to slugging like what?? 😂 I'm a constant Rank 1 killer and trust me half the reason most killers use bbq is for BP. I would much rather use Thrilling Tremors if it didn't have the BP part.
I said I was going to ignore people who obviously hadn't read the post, but yours called to me because you mention being rank 1. This isn't necessarily rank 1 killer stuff, though I've certainly seen a few who are willing to do *anything* for a win. This is everyone else trying to get there. Maybe, being at rank 1 for so long, you've forgotten what the ladder's like. For your enlightenment, slugging is an extremely popular tactic for people who want to improve their killer rank. Perhaps ask around, see what others think.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840394#Comment_1840394
Would you rather be slugged for a minute or for four minutes?
Personally, I'd rather not spend the entire bleedout timer on the ground.
I made an edit and added a little something to explain. Hope it helps!
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840452#Comment_1840452
I get that they probably thought between the challenge fragments and the ones earned just by playing, you'd get to 70 no problem, but I think it's not metered out correctly if the experience of hitting 60-65 with the challenges alone is common.
No, it's definitely intentional. They intentionally created a problem so they can sell the solution (buying tiers). The entire thing is set up in such a way that it baits people who do not buy the battlepass to buy it and for everyone else to buy tiers to finish it.
Also, if you're ever waffling on whether to unlock the premium rift tier, I personally will only do it if I get all the way to 70. I won't if I don't complete the whole thing. That basically gives you back all the cells you used unlocking, plus all the weird items.
Which is why in the future there will be progress boosters in the paid battlepass track to make people commit early. (Unconfirmed, speculation on my part)
It may be speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised... sigh.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840423#Comment_1840423
When it comes to dying, you may be able to re-queue, but 1. that could mean waiting for 10+ minutes before you get into another match, which is still time you're not actually playing, and 2. for SWF they don't get to leave and re-queue up, they have to sit and wait for their friends to die/escape.
With being slugged, a teammate could pick you up or you could pick yourself up using a perk, and if you get up before the killer gets back to you then you didn't lose a hook state. If you take the aura reading away from BBQ, killers won't suddenly stop slugging, they'll just either use Deerstalker or survivors will find themselves on the ground for the full four minutes only to bleed out because the killer has no idea where they are. It's bad for survivors if killers can't find them slugged: it makes them more likely to be stuck on the ground longer.
The most fun I had in DbD recently was running the build Power Struggle, Flip-Flop, Tenacity, and Windows of Opportunity. I actually prayed for killers to slug in my matches. Prayed for it. They rarely did, so I only got to utilize Power Struggle a few times, but oh man was it fun. If you hate slugging more than anything (and it kinda sounds like you do), run a build to counter it. Run No Mither (you'll die faster because killers are forced to hook you, but you said you'd rather die and move on than be slugged) or Unbreakable or Soul Guard.
Dying and re-queueing still subtracts the however long you spend lying on the ground from the time it takes to find a new match. That's true about SWF... They're SOL either way. And there is a slightly better chance someone could get them up, if the killer isn't using them as bait, or hasn't slugged more than one person. Which is, by the way, something I am considering in all of this. I don't want to keep reciting things I've seen, but killers having three people downed at once is one that's come up. This is why it's so damn hard to solo queue, but there's also a non-zero chance that it can happen to SWF. It doesn't matter if you have comms, if you're not one of the white-knuckled psychotic 4-mans you see people talking about, you're still at risk.
Perhaps I'm a little vindictive, but if a survivor bleeds out, I think the killer deserves the point loss. I'll admit to crawling off when I knew no one could save me and letting myself die in some tall grass so they couldn't get the final hook. Because they wasted my damn time, and I'm not giving them points for Xv1ing my teammates while I laid in the dirt. The point of this isn't to kill BBQ, it's to make it less rewarding for people who use it for this tactic. To that end, I might have an idea. If it only showed auras of healthy or injured survivors, a killer would still have info to help them find other players, but they wouldn't be able to use it as their last resort to find slugs.
Also, I don't think I ever said specifically that I'd rather die than be slugged? I'd just rather it not be the go-to tactic for everyone who reallyreally wants a 4K, and for people who can instadown, and maybe I'd die as punishment for them. I tend to run a lot of weird builds as it is, though I'm still building my perk collection, and while I don't think I'd go with No Mither (because killers see it and think it's free real estate), Flip-Flop/Tenacity sounds like a fun combo.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840393#Comment_1840393
Sorry to whatabout you here but I rarely see the 4 living breathing people take a step back when they notice that they stomp there opposition. In the worst case they stop progressing the game to taunt the killer which may have already given up instead of showing mercy in form of sacrificing themselves or anything.
I personally have never seen any behaviour in this regard while I made it my policy to spread up to 12 hooks evenly (therefore using bbq) and only kill when they were so bad that they didn't finish 5 gens by the time I made it to hook 8 and still would give the last survivor hatch, carrying them across the map or ignoring them to find it for them (one time I was clown on swamp and threw bottles up like firework, didn't work and I had to carry them to the hatch.)
I have in fact noticed when I was clearly outplaying a killer. I am sure others notice, too. That's why some decide to be [BAD WORD] in the first place. In the past, I've even seen survivors who did really well let the killer kill them at the end of a match if it went poorly for them, and I've done it once or twice when I felt really bad about how a game went for someone. Not everyone is on a SWF death squad, looking for ways to thrash baby killers and make them into monsters.
I will say this, though. It can be difficult, depending on the killer you face, to pay enough attention to whether or not they're having a hard time. Stealth killers scare the crap out of me, and I know I've gone all-out in games against them and discovered after that they were like rank 13. One Wraith in particular comes to mind, and I felt terrible. I don't do meta builds, but I looped him and did gens and unhooked, all the while scared [BAD WORD] because I startle easily, and Wraiths make me jump. I had to apologize afterward.
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840137#Comment_1840137
I just respond based on the trends I've noticed. Toxic Neas and Bunny Fengs, in my experience, have been toxic a-holes 90% of the time.
Maybe it depends on region or something, but I meet a lot of really mean Claudettes? If I see a Claudette covered in blood, I get suspicious, but most of them go under the radar until they're being totally obnoxious in a match. And this has happened to me as both killer and survivor! I got teamed up with a Claudette once who spent the whole match hiding in lockers, then camped the hatch while the last two people died on second hook. Luckily, the killer got there first and closed it on her, and he even told her off in chat afterwards for sabotaging her team.
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@Nataniellegion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840454#Comment_1840454
LoL you play pig kkkkk
I don't play her I just said she's most neglected
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No it's the Pig obvs
Legion op pls nerf
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840415#Comment_1840415
You can turn it back on. I´ve seen no difference between platforms.
Thanks for your permission. I'm good, though.
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I actually did complete the rift, like, the whole thing, and I probably took longer to do my challenges or something, but it only got me to tier 65. Getting to 70 was just me playing normally and earning fragments one at a time. That's definitely not right. I get that they probably thought between the challenge fragments and the ones earned just by playing, you'd get to 70 no problem, but I think it's not metered out correctly if the experience of hitting 60-65 with the challenges alone is common.
And even though I play often and I completed the whole thing, I feel it's too grindy for the average person to be expected to do. Even if you're not a person that has a lot of regular life responsibilities, if you just have other things you like spending time on, the rift is excessive as it's currently structured.
Also, if you're ever waffling on whether to unlock the premium rift tier, I personally will only do it if I get all the way to 70. I won't if I don't complete the whole thing. That basically gives you back all the cells you used unlocking, plus all the weird items. If this one hadn't had stuff for Nea, and an amusing, if disturbing Billy skin, I probably wouldn't have bothered at all, though.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840418#Comment_1840418
Yes they don't get much bp when they camp but bbq only doubles the amount and if they camp so hard that they get less than 10k they get less than 20k all in all. And btw when they camp this hard than bbq's few seconds auraread shouldn't be a problem. Also when the slug is far enough away that they can see you and they leave you so long that unbreakable would be usable then you should have ample time to crawl away.
That's true, if all of these things are happening in conjunction. The situations I describe are separate, but still based on things I've actually seen or experienced in games. If a face-camper is using BBQ for the BP gains, they're not really using it for the aura reading. If the killer is slugging for 4Ks, they're using it for the aura reading, so they can have more than one survivor downed and still locate them all. These are two very different kinds of killers, but they're using the same perk to support their playstyle.
I won't name names, mostly because I don't remember them all, but I will say these types could each be represented by chainsaw boys and the Blight.
Edit: Yeah I agree, this is a lot to juggle in a forum thread.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840393#Comment_1840393
Well yeah, it sucks when killers play in a way that's not fun for survivors. When I play survivor, I play solo survivor, and the majority of my matches aren't fun. A lot of people playing the game, killers and survivors, seem to forget the other four are people, too.
It'd be nice if everyone played in a way that was enjoyable for everyone else, but experience shows us we can't expect that. Like I said, everyone should be able to play optimally with the goal of winning and not ruin the fun for the other players by doing so. DbD tries to use point systems to encourage "fun" play (both Bloodpoints and emblem points) but those are band-aid fixes that don't get to the root of the problem because there are people who would rather "win" than accumulate points.
Different people find different things fun. Some killers find BP rewarding, others find pips rewarding, and some find winning by getting a 4k rewarding. It's the same with survivors, they could feel rewarded by BP, pips, an escape, or something completely different like just getting to use some niche perk once in a match. That's not skewed, it's just different people feeling rewarded by different things.
A bunch of the tools at a killer's disposal aren't fun for survivors. Slugging? Survivors are stuck on the ground unable to do anything. Hooking? Survivors are stuck on a hook unable to do anything. Killing? The survivor's totally out of the match. Three of the main parts of the game remove survivors from actively participating in a match. It's not killers' fault that the game is designed that way, and the game is definitely designed for killers to use those three things to win.
But the thing with hooking and dying compared to slugging is you can be unhooked and run away, if the killer doesn't insta-down you. You can re-queue and find a new game after you die. When you're slugged, you're still in the match, stuff is still happening, and you're lying on the ground wondering if you're gonna hit the end of your bleed-out timer before the killer comes back for you, or if he's just going to use you to bait out another survivor.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840413#Comment_1840413
Yes it doubles the bp score but camping reduces the EMBLEM score not bp so there is no balancing effect due to the double bp.
Then would their BP score be low just because of their lack of time spent actually doing things, like chasing, breaking, using their abilities, etc.? Not just because of their hook proximity when they do act?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840347#Comment_1840347
Why? Crossplay has nothing to do with skill (if thats why you have it turned off).
Maybe not, but it sure has a lot to do with playstyle. It took me maybe two nights playing with it before I turned it off because killers were really campy and survivors were really crouchy.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840340#Comment_1840340
Ah I forgot to address that point but isn't the penalty for staying near the hook aka camping which was implemented by the devs a score reduction for emblems only and does not even affect bp?
I assume it does. And once again, I'm just basing this on after-match conversations with killers. According to them, BBQ doubles their score as long as they hook all four survivors, so even if they face camp, they still make around 32k per match, which should be equivalent to a perfect score.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The only thing that annoys me about BBQ is that it should encourage players to go for different people (aka no camping or tunneling), but if someone does that, they can still achieve double BPs.
I would like to see a system which only grants stacks as long as all Survivors are alive. Someone who does not tunnel and camp (and from the Forums, nobody seems to do that, despite getting hit with DS constantly *wink wink*) will not get all stacks then. So everyone on the Forum should be fine with that.
The big issue with that is that I cant think of any way to prevent Survivors from killing themselves on first Hook just to deny future BBQ-Stacks. Maybe if they die on first hook while using the "attempt escape"-Option would still grant Stacks, but eh.
So yeah, thats the only annoying thing - it should reward players for going for different people, but if they dont, they still get the reward. Was even worse with pre-Nerf Moris.
I actually considered something like that as well. The concept I kinda had was a "timer" or cooldown of sorts on survivors. If you hook the same survivor while they're still on that cooldown, it docks points for the hook, similar to how being within range of hooked survivors reduces your points. Perhaps the cooldown has tiers, so if you re-hook someone in fifteen seconds, you get nothing, in thirty, your points are reduced by 60%, in forty-five seconds, 30%, etc. Before anyone says these time increments are too long, it wouldn't be me making this change so don't expect me to know what an appropriate cooldown would be. That's for the devs to decide, if the were to implement this.
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@Pulsar said:
BBQ is one of the best designed perks in the game. It rewards Killer's for not tunneling and it encourages them to not camp.
If you are upset about being slugged, make changes to reward Killer's for hooking people rather than leaving them slugged. As it stands, this whole spiel reads like you just got out of a particularly frustrating game.
Nah, I've actually been considering this for a while. As I have mentioned in previous posts, I see slugging in most of my matches. Most of the sluggers use BBQ to find their slugs when they hook someone else. Being slugged is less than fun, it means you're gonna get [BAD WORD] points from a match, and it wastes your time. The killer doesn't realize because they're still active in the match and time passes differently when you're actually doing things.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840360#Comment_1840360
Yeah, my build I run with on pretty much every killer is BBQ, Distressing, Beast of Prey, and either Lightborn or Whispers. Usually Lightborn these days, which means BBQ is the only tracking perk I have and most killers don't have anything built-in to help with tracking.
In terms of "honorable" killers... I mean, it shouldn't be on killers to provide survivors with a fun match. The fact that DbD is designed in such a way that the killer has to gimp themselves so survivors can have fun (which I usually do, and I still got accused of tunneling, which was actually quite frustrating) is poor game design. Playing to win shouldn't make the other side miserable; tactics that work should provide a challenge to the other side, not make them feel like they're being punished for playing, but here we are.
BBQ exists to try to encourage killers to play in a way that's fun for survivors, and gutting it probably wouldn't stop killers who play like jerks from being jerks, but the ones who take advantage of all BBQ has to offer by playing nice might stop playing nice. When I play a killer who doesn't have BBQ unlocked yet, I become... frustrated. Because the point gain is so crap without the multiplier. I feel like I don't get anything out of hooking and I stop hooking survivors and just slug, because it's easier. And I've talked to enough players on the forum to know I'm not the only one who gets frustrated and/or despondent playing killer without BBQ. It's a good perk. It's DbD itself that's the problem.
Sure, it's not on the killer to provide a "fun experience" for survivors. It's also not on survivors to die for you because you're the killer. Regardless, there are five people in every match, like, living breathing people with thoughts, and it's worth more to all of them to have a good game. And I'd say that all comes down to bloodpoints. If a killer cares more about getting a 4K than the reward they get for playing, their perspective is skewed.
This is a game. It has no pro level or actual competition. There's no real reason to screw over someone who waited ten minutes in queue to play with you by making them lie on the ground for two minutes, then killing them anyway.
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@VicThor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840369#Comment_1840369
I am on the same rank and I didn’t experience that much slugging except when someone plays the Twins or killers who slug for 4k. I believe BBQ is a fine perk, i don’t get why would you remove the BP bonus. I don’t care if the killer gets more BP.
Maybe I just have bad luck with killers that have a hard-on for 4Ks. This crap happens to me every night. And I don't think the BP is the problem, except in those cases where it's used by face-campers. My problem is that killers use it to slug, then find the downed survivor by hooking someone else.
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@VicThor Four. I haven't quite reached three yet, though I am trying to see if I can without slotting the standard meta perks. I don't really wanna lose my Kindred just so I can pick myself up off the ground once per match.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840340#Comment_1840340
Camping and slugging are the issues, not BBQ. The devs need to balance the game so that both sides can have fun playing to win.
Lots of killers use BBQ and don't camp or slug. BBQ encourages killers to hook different survivors and leave the hook. That some killers don't use it for that purpose doesn't mean the perk should be gutted. I'd like to not lose one of the only two perks in my BP build that does something useful.
This perk makes the camping and slugging far more rewarding. Sure, some killers might use it honorably. I respect that. I don't think the majority of killers are honorable. I think they tend to forget they're playing with other people and get mad when they don't get kills they think they deserve, and they make up for it by using strategies, like camping and slugging, that make it easier for them.
I think I've gotten about as high as it's possible to go as survivor without using the full Unbreakable/DS/DH/Adrenaline build, and this is what I run into almost every match. At least, when I'm not accidentally running roughshod over a rank 13 who deserved better. As killer, I haven't yet put enough BP into Bubba to make BBQ teachable, so I don't have much to say except I want it for the BP. But I also plan on running it with other BP boosting perks, which means a less-than-optimized build.
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@slim0b said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/215838/demomuffin-seeking-tips
Best Addon: Rat Liver , watch below guide to know how to use it in chases
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crw2LcaGNFY
To me the best way to play demo, is aggressive, like super hardcore. Obviously you should know why everyone runs STBFL on him, shred obsession m1 everyone else.
Best Builds on demo
Aggressive (favorite, lose a few gens at first, but snowballish) : Infectious Fright (Can swap out for enduring, whichever gives you more value consistently) , Save the best for last, BBQ & Chilli, Pop goes the weasel
• You will lose gens at first since you lack early game gen defense, don't worry, as you gain stacks of save the best for last stacks and slug people with infectious fright and you'll be alright.
Defensive (Reliable): Hex Ruin, Hex Undying, Corrupt Intervention, BBQ/Save the best for last
• Place portals directly below gens and activate them early into the match, you get a notification whenever a survivor is on a gen, if they risk doing the gen with the portal directly below they're oblivious and you know exactly where they are, if they waste time cleansing then you get a notif when they done cleansing. The info you get from this is insane.
Mean (Oppressive, credits to otz) : Make your choice, Agitation, Iron Grasp, Territorial Imperative
• Objective #1, get someone to the basement
• place a portal at the top of the basement staircase
• Walk away patrol gens
• Territorial imperative triggers, place a portal right below you whereever you are, get ready to tp back
• Right after unhook noise triggers, MYC goes off, 1 down hit unhooker, if you got a good basement down the hooked too
I've been trying to figure out how to run Demo for a hot minute and that Mean build is hilarious and terrible all at once. First good use I've ever seen for Territorial Imperative though!
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I skipped literally every post after the first one in this thread because I'm amazed there's still anyone in the game that uses crossplay.
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One of my best friends plays David. They get into a lot of stupid situations because they're the first one to do risky crap to help someone, but they'll also gladly take a hit for you and always run We'll Make It to heal you up after.
Also loves being the Shirtless David(tm)
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@burt0r said:
Ehm okay First of all, it took survivor long enough to get the devs to add a useful meaning to we are gonna live forever, the survivor equivalent to bbq, not in terms of use but bp increase to ease the grind. What you propose would mean that the devs would have to also revert wglf back to simple bp boost or take the boost of.
And I don't think many people use bbq the way you described but to ease the bp grind like me. Even so wglf with it's new additional healing speedup would be a direct counter to your argument by halving the time to heal a slugged survivor.
Except no one uses WGLF because they're too busy being unbreakable and stabbing killers in the neck. Just because BBQ has counters doesn't mean it isn't used and abused in the ways I described. The higher I've climbed as survivor, the more of this I've seen. Slugging is extremely popular in red ranks. The reason I put scare quotes around "easy hook" is because this is what killers have called it after they slugged me or another surv and went on to down someone else who happened to be nearby. The extra BP are great. The aura reading is fine on its own. The way it's used to slug without consequences is aggravating.
Also, the thing I described with killers tunneling and camping each survivor and using BBQ to make up for the points lost for that strategy? It's real. I've played against face campers who use BBQ specifically for that purpose. I asked them in endgame chat.
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@Dpooly said:
It'd be nice if they signified in the pre-game lobby who's in a party and who's playing solo. Don't think it'd be too difficult to achieve, but I'm not a programmer. But this way at least Killer would know if they have to deal with comms or not.
They cannot do this. If they indicated when survivors were grouped, the lobby dodging would never end. Killers already balk every time they see a Nea in a neon hoodie or literally anyone with a key. Even people just grouping with a random player they met earlier that night wouldn't get into a match because killers wouldn't want to risk them being on comms.
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@DarKaron said:
So I've seen a lot of things about skins.As a Killer main, here are my two cents:
In regards to cosmetics of choice, it doesn't really impact me that much unless it's the purple hair and masked Nea, which I've dubbed "Toxic Nea", or a Bunny Feng.
In 90% of matches I've played with those two characters and those cosmetics, both Toxic Neas and Bunny Fengs are the most toxic players I've ever seen. BMing like crazy, DS into Head-On plays, and the good ol' "GGEZ tryhard camp slug baby noob killer."
I don't know why, but it's a really bizarre trend.
And this is also the reason that anyone using those cosmetics get no mercy from me, just out of PTSD.
Edit: Spelling.
Are these rank 1 players? Because I've met some horrendous rank 1 players. I just think there are a few things that people judge other players by that are ridiculous and detrimental, and skins is a big one, followed closely by what they carry into a match.
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Here's the other hard part. When we come on the forums, we're not allowed to call out the actual players who ruin the game for us, just the face that represents them, which is the killer they choose.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838852#Comment_1838852
Another problem in this game is mindset vs mindset. Casual like you and me as a killer vs casual = good times. But there is a really not insignificant amount of players on both sides with a "must win" or tryhard mindset and now casual vs tryhard is annoying for everyone involved. And tryhard vs tryhard becomes more and more the norm, especially once a casual mindset gets turned into a tryhard one by toxicity from the opposition.
This game does not separate or match even mindsets or skill since they dont have normal/ranked queue separation and by now any helpful form of matchmaking when the duration of the queue widens the filter even more.
And when casual friendly player get set against also casual player but with a sever experience/skill gap it can also drive the lower side into a tryhard mindset.
Edit: I hate autocorrect.
Well said. That kinda shook all the pieces in my brain into order. I never considered myself as a more casual player, but I guess I really am. To me, this is a game, which is meant to be played, with other people. It's possible for both sides, even though they have opposing goals, to be successful and have fun. Other players really don't care about enjoying it for being a game. They see the opposing goals through a lens of victory or defeat, and people hate losing.
I've wished this game could have casual/ranked queues, but I know it's not possible. Sigh.
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@Mazoobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838823#Comment_1838823
Yeah I have that skin too, but I haven't really ran it for a while because killers tend to camp me really hard with it.
But yes... the Bubba thing is so relatable.
They camp you too? Good to know I'm not alone... If I use that outfit, I have to try extra hard not to be seen because I know I'll be camped, tunneled, or both. I just wanna shake the killer and tell them I'm not even that good! I don't have any meta perks! I'm just a scrub who likes colorful things.
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@darktrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838467#Comment_1838467
One's an emotionless inanimate object who didn't pay to play the game nor care about what happens to it, the other is a human.
For real. Every time I meet a killer who's mad about gen rushing or telling survivors that if they didn't want to give them a "free hook" they shouldn't have been so close, I want to reach through my computer screen and slap them. They are people playing a game with you. They have two objectives, do the generators and open the gate. Equating "rushing" generators with tunneling is weak and flawed. "But I'm the killer, I'm supposed to kill!" You're supposed to hook people. Incidentally, if they're hooked enough times, they die. This isn't some "by any means necessary" massacre for killers, so they should stop expecting it to be.
I admit, as a killer, I'm not great. I probably give too many chances to make games more interesting or give people opportunities to get points. I just find it distasteful to take one person out as fast as possible, ruining their chance to actually play, when I can just as easily go after someone else.
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Don't mind me, just stealing this meme...
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I thought there'd be a lot more teamwork in the game, speaking of. I was used to games where you definitely had to work together to do anything successfully. You put me on a team with three other people, silly me, I assume we're actually gonna help each other.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838800#Comment_1838800
Same as when I goofed around with a shroud of separation and only half of the survivor would even load in. I have less than 500 hours in this game while playing since releasd 4 years ago. I only play killer and just from logic know my way around to play up to purple but just can't stay fixed to one game for soo long, but they would still instant leave at a hint of a mori no matter the skill of the killer. (Yes I know killer got carried by those things) But also playing something like a spirit while having less than 10 hours experience on her and people with OoO would still dc against me. (Penalties were of at the time)
Both sides have those preemptive methods and styles or rather have grown used to be like that.
Okay, that Shroud of Separation thing is hilarious. I do it on occasion too, just to mess with people. On the other side, I like to bring a broken key with a gold charm and prayer beads, just to see what the killer will do. But all the DCs are disappointing. I get why players don't trust each other, it's just such a pain to deal with, no matter which side you play.
And @mazoobi38 I play a lot of Meg and Nea. I got Nea's super dope Graff-Crafter outfit, was pumped about it. Then I sat there watching killers dodge for like 10 minutes, and when I finally get a match, it's someone with a Mori, Franklin's Demise, and a stack of tryhard add-ons looking to prove something. Part of the reason I hate Leatherface so bad is that they're often the only ones who are willing to play against someone in a fancy outfit, just because they plan on being as nightmarish as possible. One match, I was Graff Nea in a lobby with a Dwelf, and I swear we just sat there shooting ######### in chat for twenty minutes.
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I... guess I thought there would be more scariness, because I'm a big chicken. Now, the only killers that scare me are stealth killers and the killer I main.
Also thought it would be more hide-and-seek, but once I learned what boldness points were, I lost that idea real quick.
I thought it would be a total bloodbath, as far as survivor deaths, and then I realized the higher you rank, the harder it is for killers to keep up with survivors, until the mid to low-tier killers kinda disappear.
I thought playing killer would be more relaxing than playing survivor, then I actually played killer and spent whole matches just like "what the heck."
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838792#Comment_1838792
And thus the wheel of hatred continues to turn for every nontoxic spirit, bubby or freddy getting trashed by your swf.
But I dont blame you, the other side is as much at fault when killer start sweating against each team with a hint of swf or got trained to sweat every game just in case of a veteran swf death squad.
Thanks to missing correct matchmaking and so on.
It's funny how you mention that "hint of swf" thing because so many times I'm sitting in a lobby as survivor and all of us are def not grouped, but killers dodge and dodge until we get one of those awful sweaty Bubba/Freddy/Spirits who's cocky and wants to take us down a peg. And all we did was, I dunno, wear nice skins or carry a toolbox. I've actually tested the skin thing. Convinced a lobby to swap to basic survivor clothes, the killers stopped dodging. I'm not that great of a survivor, but if I dress my character up nice, I guess they assume I'm one of those death squad swfs.
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@konchok said:
I'll give you my own personal rule book.
- I don't slug for the 4k
- I don't face camp. (Not even during EGC)
- When a survivor gets saved, I prioritize the unhooker.
- The unhooked survivor has 15 seconds where I will ignore them, after which they are fair game
- If the rescuer does not take aggro, I cannot be bothered to try to find them and will go after the individual hooked
- In the case where I've 2 hooked a survivor within a short period of time and they did not have decisive strike, I will be lenient with them if I find them shortly after they've been unhooked. (20-30 seconds of me leaving you alone)
- I don't like to win because I've slugged all the survivors while they're trying to unhook a team mate. If I have someone on hook and I've got 2 people slugged. I will pick one slug to allow that group to unhook or pick up the other slugged survivor.
This is good guidelines. It allows for full gameplay without "kneeling to the survivors" or being a total sweatlord.
I'll add, as a personal rule, if someone is clearly doing dumb unhooks to farm or sandbagging other players, and I come across them unhooking or doing literally anything with another survivor, I'll target them first. I've been the person "that surv" has used for whatever weird thing he's doing, and it ain't fun. I will ignore easier targets if I can punish someone for sabotaging teammates.
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Heartbound up there is right, probably they already heard the gen noises, or saw the sparks. I went on a break from the game for a bit, came back, and saw that gens now do that? My mind was blown. And then I played killer and realized just how easy it is to see on a dark map.