GravelordNito99
GravelordNito99
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@[Deleted User] said:
Honestly his power has so much counterplay due to all the penalties they applied to it that I'm surprised they even want to find a middle ground. People are figuring out just how simple it is to counter (just run around one of the million small rocks on most maps 4Head, then run to a loop during the cooldown) and it's becoming boring to play him.
I feel like the infection mechanic is holding him back from being properly buffed.
Finally, someone else pointing out his counterplay. It's so easy to beat him it isn't even funny. Even just run behind a tree or anything and he's suddenly reduced to an m1 killer. Imo 35cm would be best for his survivor hitbox. They also need to buff his charge times.
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@Romovati said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AV8XPKN3Z0W4/image.png
So this is the difference between live and ptb
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GFDAXEACF0D2/ngz8kioftdl91.png
And this is if it was 25 and as you can see even though it covers more of his body and more reasonable hitbox it is still not enough for using his power for long range dashes because that's what his power is designed for and it explains the long 1.5 second charge time, it was designed for using at jungle jyms and long tile safe loops like shack. Even if it would make catching people from up close slightly easy it doesn't matter because if you are actually close to them then you might as well go for a basic attack anyway so they would still go down and I'm sure most of the DBD community can agree 30 cm is reasonable and suitable.
@Mandy thanks for reading this post
I definitely think 35cm will be the sweet spot.
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@Igor_Bielobereg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/344381/dear-bhvr-this-would-improve-wesker
Very good, informative post. I support it.
Your proposed changes should be implemented together with reduction of cool-downs, which i propose here.
Then and only then Albert Wesker will be alright and "in a good spot".
One thing i am not sure about though, is making Egg add-on into base kit. I think his power is more about sensing distances of Bounds, than adjusting your position between them. Also, if you don't bound while in the window, you'll be stuck for a longer time in it (proposed 3 seconds), since you can not cancel your power without suffering a cool-down. I would leave that add-on as it is. As for reduced charge time, it just should have been shorter in the first place and be 1 second (like Demogorgon's Shred, Victor's Pounce).
I personally like the idea of base kit egg.
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@deckyr said:
counter-request: could the men also moan like that while injured? only leon's doing it. equality means all survivors moan while injured, not just the girls and leon.
You must be new here. Steve is the biggest offender in the game.
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@Albert_Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165989#Comment_3165989
If fully infected, you only carry them if you slam them into a wall, but if you throw them fully infected you'll only deal 1 health state of damage.
Yeah, maybe it should insta down on wall splat too when they're fully infected.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Before (PTB to Live)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KEVLAKD44SFI/image.png
(Note: I cannot verify the accuracy of the numbers presented above or below, someone did manage to find the hitboxes and thus showcase how small they actually are.)
After (Live to Better Version)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3GIBGEUY38H7/image.png
(Note: Intangibility was meant to be "invulnerability"; he should be sliding off of smaller objects that aren't around waist height just to make him play better. Just so this hitbox doesn't get too out of hand, this hitbox does not apply when The Mastermind grabs a Survivor, and the environment collision takes precedent over the invulnerability.)
(Additional Note: If the size of the hitboxes still happen to be too small, they should be increased until they feel right for both sides to play.)
Additional Problems that Should be Addressed
(Bold are bugs, italics are gameplay issues.)
- The Mastermind currently has an issue going up or down slopes, primarily stairs. This does not happen with any other mobility Killer.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where he cannot activate his power within a meter of an object or ledge. This causes him to feel very clunky, especially in very tight loops.
- The Mastermind's Virulent Bound chain bound duration is too short, leading to it not being used when the player wants to use it.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where grabbing a Survivor at a specific range to an object will cause that Survivor to bounce off and not be injured, despite becoming infected.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where he will sometimes go through Survivors while using the Virulent Bound.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where he can get stuck after grabbing a Survivor with Virulent Bound, especially when the Survivor throws a pallet down and that Survivor is on the same side as him.
How the Gameplay Issues Can be Addressed
- Quality of Life: The Mastermind no longer has a range restriction when attempting to activate Virulent Bound near objects, walls or ledges.
- Buff: The Mastermind can now leap off of ledges similarly to every other mobility-based attack (Demogorgon's Shred, Victor's Pounce, Hillbilly's Chainsaw).
- Buff: The window which the Mastermind can perform the additional bound is increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
- Change: Egg (Gold) now increases the charge speed of Virulent Bound by 20%.
- Since the original version of Egg (Gold) becomes base kit, it needs a new effect. A great effect to give it is to have it address the part of The Mastermind's kit that isn't affected currently in a small way.
If you want to address Wesker fast so more people can have fun playing as or against him, then this should help you figure out his key issues and change them so that he can be so much better.
I honestly think even 35cm survivor hitbox would be best. At the moment it's not even close to playable.
I very much hope bhvr implement the parameters of this post. This is honestly the best post I have seen on how to buff Wesker. If they implemented all this, he would be in a brilliant spot instantly.
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@SlowLoris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165976#Comment_3165976
Did you also have a post "disappear"?
Could we get a Mod/Dev response on this. I'd just like to know if our posts were actually removed or there was a forum bug. My comment doesn't even show up on my profile, and I spent 40 minutes carefully writing that feedback for you guys. It was critical, but constructive, and honest. While I know nobody likes to get negative feedback, I feel it should be okay to receive actual well thought out constructive feedback.
If this was a bug on the forums I can accept that, but to be quite honest, it feels pretty defeating to just have my message disappear and have to assume it was deleted without a response, because that starts to feel like censorship. I assume that's not the case, because a post like OP's post is left, and I would assume a post like mine that was very carefully written would surely come across much better. So, if OP's post wasn't deleted, I can only assume there is no way mine would be.
I think it was a bug for a while. Mine disappeared, but has now reappeared.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162832#Comment_3162832
I'm pretty sure the reason they don't respond to legitimate game balance discussions is because then it's seen as BHVR taking a stance on the issue, which creates expectations of change and often incorrect understandings of their position (because such posts will be cited for years to come - we already see that happen constantly.)
That stuff's handled internally - so Peanits probably could chime in if he thought it was a good idea, but Mandy certainly can't, and she's usually the one we're talking to. So she can answer low-effort questions all day, and swat down saltposters, but I would imagine she doesn't have the authority or internal confirmation to respond to the trending questions like "why was Blast Mine nerfed" or "why did Wesker's hitboxes get nerfed so badly," much less respond to someone's specific suggestion and get construed as BHVR's Official Stance On This Thing And Definitely Something They're Going To Do. Which is almost definitely why Peanits doesn't do it either. Expectations getting out of hand or not being able to be met have backfired in the past.
It's also probably because the community is... schizoid at best when it comes to providing game balance suggestions, and you know that if BHVR got involved in a topic, everyone with any investment in that issue would come piling in to throw in their often insanely biased two cents - combine that with the general undercurrent of anger at BHVR and I think it'd descend into chaos. As much as I'd love to be involved in the discussion, and as genuinely impressed I am by some of the solutions I've seen people cook up, and how often I feel frustrated by the lack of reaction or sensible solutions to issues the community clearly highlights... I think the best we can hope for is that those posts get read and forwarded to the design team. Maybe some more liberal use of the "BHVR read" flag, or letting people know when their posts have been looked at, would go a long way towards letting people know they're heard.
I understand that point entirely. But the point is that it's selective. They don't need to promise anything, only give indication that the constructive criticism being given is actually being seen. Then maybe they'll be encouraging more of it.
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@RonMan32 said:
Hard agree on most of the stuff here. I do however thing even in his current state that he's really fun, at least when bugs aren't rearing their ugly head. I'd honestly advocate for the survivor hitbox being 35cm but yes, at least 30 would probably make him more usable at long ranges and would account for buggy misses/lag.
He is not fun at high mmr at all. Survivors can turn him into an m1 killer when they know the counterplay to his power, which makes him extremely frustrating and unfun. All the survivors have to do is put any kind of object or terrain between themselves and Wesker every time he pulls up his power, and suddenly it is useless.
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@Peanits said:
Friend, we're gonna need some more constructive feedback than that if you want any chance of it being addressed. Eat less toenails is not enough to go on.
This post's OP is just salt posting.
There are plenty of posts going over it in constructive detail. I even made one myself. Essentially, his power should have a 30/35cm detection on survivors so that he stops phasing through people. He could also do with his charge and recharge times being reduced to allow him to be in his power more often. This is because the counterplay to his power is extremely powerful (just going behind a tree or any kind of object), and so he should be allowed to use it more smoothly and more often.
Here are some links to forum posts discussing this which are actually helpful. A lot of the most helpful feedback takes place in the comments:
@GravelordNito99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161310#Comment_3161310
It is not hard to say, at all. There are plenty of clips around youtube demonstrating the problem. My own experience also confirms it. Here are a couple of clips going around for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVOayhDfuaY&ab_channel=HensClips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFI5zUNgUO0&ab_channel=TrueMortal
Wesker went from being the most fun I've had in any game in years on the PTB to being one of the most frustrating experiences in just as long on live. His survivor hitbox was too large on the PTB at 40cm, however the nerf to 20cm is excessive. It should be 30-35cm to allow for some feedback when playing Wesker. His power is ridiculously punishing to miss, so making it this unreliable to hit only causes frustration.
Survivors have extremely easy and effective counterplay to Wesker - any tree or object of any kind neuters him and forces the killer to play as an m1 killer. Even just running in circles around a small rock will make him powerless, which means he's essentially an m1 killer with some mediocre map traversal against good survivors. For example, the Kate in Hens's clip could simply have hugged that tree to break line of sight and Hens would have been completely powerless, as unlike Blight, there is no mid-bound adjustment. It is because of this that survivors SHOULD be punished for being in the open against Wesker. It happens very rarely against competent survivors, and having it so that grabbing the survivor who made this huge error is so unreliable removes what little of his power he has left, since most of the time he will just slide round the survivor.
The current hitbox means that going for long range bound plays is no longer viable, because survivors can just randomly move around to make hitting the bound a total guess for the killer. This is a huge shame, because going for these long range bound plays was where all of Wesker's fun and excitement came from on the PTB. People love it.
I quit playing the game yesterday out of frustration for the first time since 2020, and this was all down to my immense disappointment with how much weaker Wesker now is. He sometimes just lets go of survivors when you're clearly slamming them into a wall, and they run to safety. I don't mean throw, I quite literally mean he just lets go. One example of this was slamming into a wall with a chest against it. The most common place this happens is at corners. It has happened every single game, often multiple times in a row.
As it currently stands, Wesker will likely do well at low mmr, but be unable to kill anyone at high mmr. In order to help fix this, his hitbox should be increased, and both his bound charge and recharge times should be reduced. It would also be worth considering increasing the speed of his second bound. His first bound's speed is okay, as it should be slower. This would create a fun kind of preparation and then blitz kind of gameplay. I still think his counterplay fundamentally neuters him enough that the issue will remain, but it will definitely be lessened. I also think he should have some addons that affect the speed or charge times of his power - many of the current addons are useless. If Blight can have several addons that skyrocket him from S tier to Nurse tier, then why can't Wesker's be useful too? First aid sprays are also too plentiful. Maximum infection almost never happens, and survivors can spray straight away without worry because there are so many more sprays on the map. No games go on long enough for survivors to have to worry about when they use a spray. The Complete Global Saturation scoring event may as well not exist.
Of course, you've likely already heard that he also gets no brutality points - when he lands a bound hit, he gets 3 scoring events, all of which are deviousness. He has no way to get brutality outside of m1. This makes his bloodpoint gain poor.
To be honest, I love the concept behind Wesker, and your team did a great job making him slide around objects now and hit people over vaults. However, the issues I mention here are totally killing his fun. Some less informed people are confusing his object and survivor hitboxes, but don't get it twisted - his object hitbox is much MUCH better. His survivor hitbox is the issue.
@GravelordNito99 said:
Hi, some of Wesker's changes are good. It feels good to be able to slide off of things somewhat now, and to be able to hit survivors while they vault. Although not all the issues I addressed on my popular PTB feedback post have been addressed (which has strangely disappeared for some reason; perhaps the entire section of the feedback archives was deleted), I'm glad at least some of them have.
However, there are still many issues. In fact, I'd say that Wesker is not only weaker now than the PTB, but he is also 100x less fun. This is a massive shame, because I had the time of my life on the PTB.
Despite the apparent buffs, Wesker is definitely weaker overall than he was on the PTB. This is in its entirety due to the reduction in survivor hitbox size with his power. On the PTB, it was 40cm, which was a little excessive. However, now, it is only 20cm, which is excessive in the opposite direction.
With the current 20cm hitboxes, you will often slide off of survivors, making hitting them even at point blank often extremely difficult. Coinsidering how punishing missing a bound can be, I don't think this is healthy. This one enormous hitbox nerf has turned what on the PTB was the most fun killer you've ever designed, to one of the most frustrating to play.
Even in narrow corridors, where the survivor has barely any room to move, Wesker will usually just slide round them if he is not 100% square on with the running survivor. This means that any survivor who makes an effort to dodge can be almost impossible to hit, since a bound becomes guesswork for the killer.
This current hitbox also makes it so that long range bounds are not a viable tactic against decent survivors, since they can very easily dodge it by moving randomly. This is an enormous issue since -
these long range bound hits are where the excitement and satisfaction of playing Wesker comes from.
Therefore, my suggestion to fix this issue is not to revert to a 40cm hitbox like it was on PTB, but instead to -
make the hitbox a nice happy medium of 30cm.
This would allow for better feedback playing Wesker, giving back some of that power he had in the PTB, and it would also allow for some leniency for survivors, since it wouldn't be as unmissable for Wesker as it was in the PTB.
Another issue worth bringing up is the fact he lets go of survivors at strange times still, even worse than on the PTB. I grabbed someone on a corner, who became infected, but for some reason Wesker let him go without injuring him. I believe this is a bug. It once happened twice in a row, grabbing people in the open and just letting them go. This occurs almost every game, making it quite an issue. I just recently had a clear slam on the wall outside of PRD, but because there was a chest there or something, Wesker simply let the survivor go that I was slamming. I decided in that moment that I was done playing Wesker until something changes.
Another huge issue with Wesker is his BP gain. Currently, he has absolutely no way to gain brutality points. When he lands a bound attack, he receives 3 point scoring events - all 3 of these are deviousness events.
At least one of these should be made into a brutality event, so that he has more than 2000 brutality points in a long match.
Here is a youtube clip demonstrating the issue with the awful new hitbox. It has sucked a lot of the fun out of playing him - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFI5zUNgUO0&ab_channel=TrueMortal
The current hitboxes have him around a high C tier killer at best. He feels incredibly weak. I'm disappointed that you nerfed him, when he desperately needed buffs. Wesker went from being the most fun I've had in any game in years, to the most frustrated I've felt in over a decade.
If you want Wesker to truly be the ultimate introduction to the best your game has to offer, then you have some work to do. I would suggest making his hitbox on survivors bigger, and reducing the time it takes to charge and recharge bounds. This would easily put him in the high B tier.
@CrimsonMothKing said:
Pros -
- His power is really enjoyable, whether it is dashing around the map at lightning-fast speeds, or launching survivors, when it works, there is a lot of fun to be had.
- His infection, unlike Nemesis, actually poses a threat that survivors need to be wary of
- His voice lines bring more life to his character, helping you embrace the smug twat he is.
- His release skin is cool. I really hope we get a blighted Wesker skin or a shirtless Wesker :)
- The fact he can damage multiple survivors with his power, unlike Nemesis, feels really nice.
- Has some really good addons, each feels impactful. Unlike Nemesis.
Cons -
- The changes to his survivor grab hitboxes were just a bit too far, he can slip past survivors too easily.
- For some reason, he will randomly drop the survivors he grabs. Mainly near vault points.
- Unlike Demo, using his dash from high up to gain considerable distance (Something that a lot of players enjoy on demo) isn´t possible on Wesker. He just stops the second he leaves the edge.
- His running animation is really goofy. If he was more imposing, by say being more upright, it would look considerably better. Right now he doesn´t look like a supervillain mastermind, he looks like a combination of Trickster and Legion.
- Was really hoping we would get a killer that could change forms, similar to Oni or something. It´s resident evil. Really hoping Wesker would have some kind of side power where he could ubercharge himself for a period.
- Reassurance was nerfed hard, by Hyper Focus was untouched,
- Gen Speed was removed from Better Than New.
- Low Profile
- Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of Nurse´s existence.
What I would change -
- Give Wesker a third dash or increase the hitbox on survivor collision.
- Reduce the cooldown before he can attack after vaulting with his power.
- Change his running animation.
- Allow him to use his momentum to jump off of ledges.
- Improve his power, so he doesn´t drop survivors as easily.
- Hypothetically give him a secondary "empowered state".
- For example, he could have the ability to greatly increase his movement speed and only has access to virulent bound for x amount of seconds.
I must admit, I do myself find it frustrating that important forum members from bhvr such as yourself mostly reply to posts such as the current thread's blatant salty nature (as is obvious by the use of the word "pathetic"), yet very VERY rarely comment on actually constructive pieces of feedback. I think this does nothing but perpetuate a sort of toxic relationship with your own playerbase. Rather than only replying to posts of praise, posts in which people are misinformed about the topic they're sharing an opinion on, and posts of salt, you should also consider replying to middle-ground posts of genuine constructive criticism. For example, moderators will often not reply to posts of good reason, yet will then reply to comments following it in which the commenter is confused about what is actually being discussed. A more specific example would be discussion of Wesker's hitboxes. In one discussion, some people were pointing out that the object hitbox is much better, but that the survivor hitbox is now too small. These things are both true. Then, another commenter made a poorly informed comment in which they wrongly assumed all of Wesker's power runs on a singular hitbox. The only comment out of all these that was responded to by a member of bhvr was the one from the misinformed person. This is very frustrating to watch, as seeing some feedback being given to those who actually know what they're talking about would be far more productive.
You have to remember, these kind of constructive posts with clear effort put into them only come from a good place. These people (myself included) genuinely want to encourage good change and see the game improve. You should be encouraging these kinds of posts, rather than mostly only replying to these salt posts in order to consolidate an unproductive relationship. I'm sure the community would be overjoyed to see more interaction with constructive posts.
Hopefully you read this, although I sadly doubt it. If you do, have my genuine thanks for all your work, and I hope you take what I have to say into consideration.
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@baconbitzzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162604#Comment_3162604
I can show you like 20 different clips of his grab literally grabbing people off scream. On PTB his grab was a problem simple and easy. Also the arguments of Nurse existing is a terrible argument because tbh I don't think she is healthy for the game in her current state. An example is one of Wesker's perks being nerfed because of starstruck nurse. If they made her blinks not basic attacks then I think that would make her fair but im not talking about the balance of the super top tier killers because Wesker isn't a top tier killer. Lets focus on trying to fix him and not make him broken in terms of being bad and OP.
The point is that the game is survivor sided at its core, so having more top tier killers is a good thing. It should be a levelling up philosophy, not a levelling down one. His grab was not a problem at all - if people are caught in a direct line of Wesker and remain there long enough for him to actually hit them with his bound, they deserve to be punished for it. This is because a competent survivor has no excuse to ever allow Wesker to even have a chance to use his power. His power is countered so easily that in those few instances where he's allowed to use it, it should be easier to hit it, like on the PTB. This is why 30/35cm would be ideal, since it would stop the baby survivors who somehow let him use his power from crying as much, yet would allow him this bit of power he desperately needs.
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@BearMerchant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162574#Comment_3162574
I mean 30 is fine too lol, I don't object to them upping it that much. I have no idea how much a single unit affects his hitbox in practical situations.
Why a buff to his charge times though? While playing against him his power feels pretty strong but you at least have a chance to react to it. Does he feel clunkier when you play him or something?
The main problem is that at high mmr, his power is next to useless. Therefore, it should be smoother and available more often. In order to beat Wesker, you just put an object between the two of you. Even if you just run around a tree or a small rock, it's enough to render him powerless and reduce him to an m1 killer. High mmr survivors do not allow him to use his power, so he's extremely weak. Therefore, the hitbox increase and charge times are necessary to give him a fighting chance.
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@baconbitzzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162574#Comment_3162574
Although I REALLY want him to be fixed, they need to be careful with how big they make it so its not like PTB where Wesker is part Jedi and force pulls people. 35 may be bit too big, I honestly like like max should be 30 I think but lets see what the devs have in mind come Tuesday if a balance change can be made before the 1st bug fix.
He wasn't a problem on the PTB. You could argue it was too big, but if things like Nurse and Blight can exist, then it shouldn't have been a problem. I understand why people think 40 is too big, but it definitely needs to be at least 30cm.
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@BearMerchant said:
yeah i agree they should up it to 25 and see how that feels first. if it's not enough try 30. i'm sure there's a sweet spot in there somewhere where it feels fair to get hit but can still somewhat be dodged. it's fun dodging his leaps but i don't think i should escape being grabbed point blank lol
No, it absolutely needs to be 30 minimum. Currently, it's almost impossible to hit against survivors who dodge. It doesn't need a slight increase, it needs quite a bit. They should try it at 30, and even consider trying moving it to 35, along with a few other buffs to his charge times.
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
Pros -
- His power is really enjoyable, whether it is dashing around the map at lightning-fast speeds, or launching survivors, when it works, there is a lot of fun to be had.
- His infection, unlike Nemesis, actually poses a threat that survivors need to be wary of
- His voice lines bring more life to his character, helping you embrace the smug twat he is.
- His release skin is cool. I really hope we get a blighted Wesker skin or a shirtless Wesker :)
- The fact he can damage multiple survivors with his power, unlike Nemesis, feels really nice.
- Has some really good addons, each feels impactful. Unlike Nemesis.
Cons -
- The changes to his survivor grab hitboxes were just a bit too far, he can slip past survivors too easily.
- For some reason, he will randomly drop the survivors he grabs. Mainly near vault points.
- Unlike Demo, using his dash from high up to gain considerable distance (Something that a lot of players enjoy on demo) isn´t possible on Wesker. He just stops the second he leaves the edge.
- His running animation is really goofy. If he was more imposing, by say being more upright, it would look considerably better. Right now he doesn´t look like a supervillain mastermind, he looks like a combination of Trickster and Legion.
- Was really hoping we would get a killer that could change forms, similar to Oni or something. It´s resident evil. Really hoping Wesker would have some kind of side power where he could ubercharge himself for a period.
- Reassurance was nerfed hard, by Hyper Focus was untouched,
- Gen Speed was removed from Better Than New.
- Low Profile
- Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of Nurse´s existence.
What I would change -
- Give Wesker a third dash or increase the hitbox on survivor collision.
- Reduce the cooldown before he can attack after vaulting with his power.
- Change his running animation.
- Allow him to use his momentum to jump off of ledges.
- Improve his power, so he doesn´t drop survivors as easily.
- Hypothetically give him a secondary "empowered state".
- For example, he could have the ability to greatly increase his movement speed and only has access to virulent bound for x amount of seconds.
I agree with you for the most part. They should also consider reducing the charge and recharge times on his power.
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@Sumnox said:
So, I've seen a lot of (justified) negativity about this new DLC, and I myself have given a lot of that negative feedback. But in case it all gets lost in a sea of complaints, I feel like we could just give a list of what was underwhelming and ruined this DLC for me :
- Basekit 10 seconds Endurance and Speed are a good idea and a step in the right direction, it doesn't completely nulify tunnelling, but it's something. The only issue I see with this is, for it to be truly effective, you still NEED BT. Which is dumb, in my opinion. Had you made it 15 basekit seconds, you could entirely ditch BT and turn it into something different.
- Reassurance is completely useless outside of a SWF team. Behaviour, you constantly and persistently give candy to both the vocal killer minority and SWF teams, which can effectively make use of everything successfully using voice communication and coordinating. (Example, sabotaging is virtually useless, but using voice comms it can become usable. It's out of the equation for solos, it's a SWF exclusive, like many others) Reassurance needs to be at the very least 60 seconds per hook state, to justify solo Q players to actually BRING IT, so people can make use of it. As it is right now, it's just another SWF exclusive. Like sabotaging is, like so many fun builds are. SWF exclusive.
- Rest of the survivor perks released are poor and underwhelming. Meme perks. THey're as good as reworked Pharmacy. Have you seen many people bring Pharmacy? I wonder why. It's bad. So are the new survivor perks. If you want to encourage survivors to bring new perks and actually shake up the meta, those perks NEED TO BE WORTH BRINGING. And no, a perk doesn't need to be broken to be worth using. Iron Will wasn't broken, it was just a good perk (now it's just useless, like 90% of survivor perks). - For example, WireTap should have a greater range and add some effect if/when the killer breaks it the generator. Otherwise, we have a weak perk that, when it works it's questionably weak, and if the killer decides to just break the generator right away it just has no use. What's the point of a perk like this? you need to release possibly META perks, that are that good, that people have trouble deciding what will they pick among all of those good options. I am tired of meme, situational, whatever, useless perks. Same with the rest of the perks. Low Profile is literally dumpster tier useless. Another "Play for hatch because everyone died at 4 gens as usual" perk. Reactive healing should just fully heal you after 30-40 seconds once someone is hit within a certain range. That still wouldn't make it meta, but at least someone, somewhere, would think about bringing it, sometimes. We want good, potentially meta perks that are so interesting and good we have trouble deciding what we pick. Now we have no trouble: We've been picking the same perks for 6 years, before and AFTER the meta shakeup.
- Wesker, from my experience, is an A tier killer who has stomped every group I have played in so far. He's like a combination between Nurse, Blight and Demo, and covers half the map in a couple dashes. We will need to see once people adjust to him, playing as and versus him, how good he truly is. But I haven't been able to survive a single solo Q match since this DLC released, and people already talk about buffing him. As I said, we'll have to give it some time and see, but if he becomes another Nurse/Blight, that just pushes people away from the game. Time will tell.
- Finally, the RPD map rework. Seems an improvement fromn the original, but it still has the issue that sometimes getting to the hook in time is very problematic, and it's prone to let people go into struggle phase. I hate to have to let go of the generator and get moving right away when someone is hooked, because otherwise you can't get there in time.
If you can't beat Wesker, you're playing at low mmr and don't understand his very basic and VERY effective counterplay. Just put any object between you and Wesker and he no longer has a power. Have fun getting 3-4 out every single game you do this! Wesker is C/B tier at best, but stomps low mmr.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161292#Comment_3161292
It's actually 2 different hit boxes, the collision and the grabbing survivors hitboxes are totally different.
The collision hitbox was reduced as Wesker bumped into so many things on the PTB - I'm not seeing that happening on the current Live version.
With regards to grabbing the survivors, it was generous on the PTB and we could see that he was able to grab survivors that he really shouldn't have. This was also something that was adjusted, whether it's now gone the opposite way is hard to say - that's what feedback is for. But I want to be sure we're getting the correct feedback and not having the two different hitboxes mixed up.
It is not hard to say, at all. There are plenty of clips around youtube demonstrating the problem. My own experience also confirms it. Here are a couple of clips going around for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVOayhDfuaY&ab_channel=HensClips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFI5zUNgUO0&ab_channel=TrueMortalWesker went from being the most fun I've had in any game in years on the PTB to being one of the most frustrating experiences in just as long on live. His survivor hitbox was too large on the PTB at 40cm, however the nerf to 20cm is excessive. It should be 30-35cm to allow for some feedback when playing Wesker. His power is ridiculously punishing to miss, so making it this unreliable to hit only causes frustration.
Survivors have extremely easy and effective counterplay to Wesker - any tree or object of any kind neuters him and forces the killer to play as an m1 killer. Even just running in circles around a small rock will make him powerless, which means he's essentially an m1 killer with some mediocre map traversal against good survivors. For example, the Kate in Hens's clip could simply have hugged that tree to break line of sight and Hens would have been completely powerless, as unlike Blight, there is no mid-bound adjustment. It is because of this that survivors SHOULD be punished for being in the open against Wesker. It happens very rarely against competent survivors, and having it so that grabbing the survivor who made this huge error is so unreliable removes what little of his power he has left, since most of the time he will just slide round the survivor.
The current hitbox means that going for long range bound plays is no longer viable, because survivors can just randomly move around to make hitting the bound a total guess for the killer. This is a huge shame, because going for these long range bound plays was where all of Wesker's fun and excitement came from on the PTB. People love it.
I quit playing the game yesterday out of frustration for the first time since 2020, and this was all down to my immense disappointment with how much weaker Wesker now is. He sometimes just lets go of survivors when you're clearly slamming them into a wall, and they run to safety. I don't mean throw, I quite literally mean he just lets go. One example of this was slamming into a wall with a chest against it. The most common place this happens is at corners. It has happened every single game, often multiple times in a row.
As it currently stands, Wesker will likely do well at low mmr, but be unable to kill anyone at high mmr. In order to help fix this, his hitbox should be increased, and both his bound charge and recharge times should be reduced. It would also be worth considering increasing the speed of his second bound. His first bound's speed is okay, as it should be slower. This would create a fun kind of preparation and then blitz kind of gameplay. I still think his counterplay fundamentally neuters him enough that the issue will remain, but it will definitely be lessened. I also think he should have some addons that affect the speed or charge times of his power - many of the current addons are useless. If Blight can have several addons that skyrocket him from S tier to Nurse tier, then why can't Wesker's be useful too? First aid sprays are also too plentiful. Maximum infection almost never happens, and survivors can spray straight away without worry because there are so many more sprays on the map. No games go on long enough for survivors to have to worry about when they use a spray. The Complete Global Saturation scoring event may as well not exist.
Of course, you've likely already heard that he also gets no brutality points - when he lands a bound hit, he gets 3 scoring events, all of which are deviousness. He has no way to get brutality outside of m1. This makes his bloodpoint gain poor.
To be honest, I love the concept behind Wesker, and your team did a great job making him slide around objects now and hit people over vaults. However, the issues I mention here are totally killing his fun. Some less informed people are confusing his object and survivor hitboxes, but don't get it twisted - his object hitbox is much MUCH better. His survivor hitbox is the issue.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3160789#Comment_3160789
It gets faster the more people are infected.
Which isn't going to happen since sprays are so fast and plentiful.
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@Romovati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159040#Comment_3159040
His hitbox is fine when you are vaulting but when you want to catch people in the open it's way too hard that even if you hit them you kinda phase through them if you are not pixel precise this video is the great example
Wow, this clip is even more ridiculous - the sad part is that this is not rare. Most of my bounds do this, where it looks like I should snag them on my fov, but they just slip past me. It's so punishing to miss a bound, so it shuld not be this easy for survivors to dodge it.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159040#Comment_3159040
"Practice", His power might as well be skinny because his hitbox is insanely bad. Can you tell me how practice mattered in these clips?
I included this video in my own forum post on the topic. It's honestly quite telling.
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Absolutely agree with this post. Wesker is far too weak with these hitboxes. You simply glide off of survivors, even at point blank. The counterplay to Wesker is to just put an object between the two of you, no matter what it is. This is very easy to do and just forces him to be an m1 killer, which is really boring for both sides. He needs some serious buffs. He also sometimes just lets survivors go once you grab them, which is massively infuriating.
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I agree. I mentioned this in my own post discussing Wesker's many issues:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/343749/current-issues-concerning-wesker
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@Percival_nxs said:
I was okay with decreasing the Wesker dash Hitboxes but ...
Now they seem really too small, several times I happened to pass really close to a surv, even in bottlenecks and not take them, as if through them, like a pin.
Please increase them a little.
Yes, the hitboxes are far too small. The counterplay to Wesker is so powerful, that he is going to roll people at low mmr, but be unable to get a 1k at high mmr. It's quite sad. All survivors have to do is hug corners and edges. Even running in circles around a little rock will do, These things will deny Wesker's power entirely. Just block line of sight, and boom, wesker has no power and you make it to another loop. This simple counterplay turns him into an m1 killer with a bit of map mobility. It makes playing him extremely frustrating (since I play vs prestige 100 survivors in about half my games) to the point of me almost wanting a refund. He was amazingly fun on the ptb, but on live he is C tier at best.
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@kaskader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159057#Comment_3159057
And they lied in the developer update. ''We have changed the survivor hitbox slightly'' Its a 50% nerf! how the hell is that ''slightly''
I am honestly very disappointed. Wesker on the PTB was the most fun I've had in any game in years. Wesker on live is honestly one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. You simply slide off of survivors, even at point blank range. Wesker often just lets survivors go for no reason, several times in a row. I have never rage quit as killer before today, but I did on Wesker on account of this issue. I slammed people into a wall, blatantly, but Wesker let them go for some reason. On the PTB he was easily a B tier killer, maybe even high B. But now, he's sitting around C tier. Good survivors know how to force Wesker to play like an m1 killer. Wesker can only use his power in straight lines, and even then, he will slide off of you most likely anyway. All survivors have to do is even just run around a rock over and over to force you to m1. This sucks all of the fun out of Wesker. I went from landing 20+ slams per game in the PTB, to landing maybe 1-2 slams per game on live and being unable to get a 1k on Midwich. It's such a shame, since Wesker was their chance for redemption, to make something amazing. BHVR's pandering to survivors has ruined his fun, and it will deter the new players once again. In his current state, he would need a 3rd bound to be viable.
I went into more detail about these specific issues in a forum post of my own if anyone is interested in raising awareness of these problems: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/343749/current-issues-concerning-wesker
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Agree to an extent. You quite literally slide off of survivors sometimes now. In my opinion, the hitbox should be 30cm, not 20cm as it currently is, and not 40cm as it was on the PTB.
Edit 31/08/22 - After playing Wesker for another day, my beliefs have been reinforced further. It might be worth considering making the survivor hitbox 35cm. I'm not sure if even 30cm would be big enough, since right now it is almost impossible to hit people who try to dodge.
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@ByeByeQ said:
As one who earned the portraits on all the characters I own I don't even care for them.
I'd love it if they made them earnable and instead gave us Legacy P3's something exclusive we could actually show off like:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L2YJTIU7W6DZ/legacy2.png
All I have is shattered hope now.
This for sure. Would be incredible.
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There should have been a different reward for Legacy P3 - one that can be seen in the endgame screen rather than just by ourselves. This portrait would have been better for a P100 reward to avoid swiss cheese.
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Killers are still far weaker than survivors, but the gap has at least been closed somewhat. There's still work to be done here, like reducing base survivor speed by 10% and making gens take another 30s each, but it's honestly a great start. Nice job balancing, bhvr.
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Actually, I feel the opposite way to an excessive extent. Not only should Prestige level be visible in the post-game, but the Legacy P3 reward we got for this update should also be visible in the post-game screen. Currently, the reward serves no purpose.
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@BadZilla said:
You intended to buff killers and balance the meta but you ended up butchering survivors.. Every game in solo queue ends up with 4 kills, past the first gen or the second one the game is already over. It's only tunnel this face camp that, DS is useless and OTR won't save you from tunnelers and buffing some of the most annoying killer perks + adding 10 seconds for each gen isn't enough.. Bloodlust is way quicker now and chases are faster now.
As a solo queue player it's a disaster and everyone is either hiding at the other end of the map or being slugged or hooked, the game is easy mode for killers I ended up with tons of 4 kills trying meme builds or messing around with weak killers like billy and clown and doctor, it's not fun anymore there is no challenge for killers to improve.
You want to balance the game sure everyone wants that but what you did is gone too far making survivors gameplay unfair and boring, Dead Hard needed a nerf but not the whole goddamn thing.
Gens are the most boring part of DBD and making each one 10 seconds longer is making everyone lazy or unconsciously avoiding them.
Rework gens into something more fun and interactive like fun mini games or something manual where you can attach wires and fix the gens similar to among us maybe or survivors need to find parts and fuel to run gens. Anything is fun than holding m1 90 second x 5.
Survivors had their 2 win buttons (E and W) neutered and now they've been reduced to snivelling babies for the first time since launch. It's so pleasant to have survivors be weaker for once. I doubt bhvr will let it last since most of their playerbase are survivor masins that cherish their power role and they need to appease the majority. I, however, will be enjoying this brief period of actually having some power for once as a killer main. As soon as survivors are forced to actually loop, it's weeding out the cheaters (dead heard reliant people who hold w 3 times before they go down after a minimum of 60s) from the actual players that know how to loop.
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They should also change the legacy P3 reward to be visible to other players.
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@FeryGEN said:
To sum it up, are bloody portraits ultimately visible? How?
No, the portraits are not visible to anyone else. They're a pointless reward, which is what we're upset about.
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@Slaymore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070739#Comment_3070739
Well a legendary cosmetic was the original reward for those that prestiged before the first major change - so it has some precedence to it. I don't care either way - just disappointed.
With every new update on this patch, like the one an hour ago, my heart continues to drop. They are still not addressing this at all and continually talk about this character portrait thing like it's enough. I'm very saddened...
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ASC7L175E5EO/legacy2.png
Here is what I had envisioned. Considering their recent rework of the icons from PTB to Live adding that gold in, you'd think adding a red crown or exclusive highlight to the Crests would be easy.
This reminds me of a design I made which involved a crown-like formation using the old prestige "I" shapes. You can see it in my posts. Yours is also excellent. Something like this is honestly all it would take.
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@Slaymore said:
I pushed hard to get all my survivors to P3 with all perks - all I got was starting at Prestige 9 to show for it. Kinda bummed TBH - was expecting something more (cosmetic??). Balancing has been pretty good otherwise - killers still camp and tunnel (those with no skill) but they won't introduce any real point penalty to stop it.
Good comment OP
Slaymore
All we need is something that can be seen by other players in the post-game. We don't need a cosmetic.
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@Laluzi said:
In each match I've played today, I've had a newbie teammate, something which was evident during the game. One of them didn't even have perks. More than that, I've been able to identify they're new before the game even starts because they're playing a default character at prestige 0. If I roll a whole lobby that looks like that... why exactly would I want to stay?
As for killers: right now there's a fairly level playing field re: P9, but give that some time and it's going to be really clear when you have a highly experienced squad to contend with. Not to mention you can choose to target anyone who's a common character at P0 off the assumption they'll be more vulnerable than, say, the Feng at P9.
If we didn't show ranks in lobbies, why would we want to show prestiges? It's just begging people to lobby shop.
It's ridiculous that they're allowing us to see Prestige numbers BEFORE the game, yet they won't let others see the Legacy P3 reward AFTER the game. BHVR, please stop making backwards decisions.
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Not sure about this suggestion. The important thing is to make the reward visible to others. At this point, it doesn't matter what it is.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067879#Comment_3067879
https://youtu.be/EU6ELOJSJII?t=1549
He mentioned it first when the PTB dropped (you can see in the comments that he actually expresses a couple of thoughts about it as well)
https://youtu.be/APhw3E49Vz4?t=974
Then a couple of days ago he read the July update and asked again whether other people could see it or not, and still in the comments makes more remarks
Of course, he doesn't really makes a point of it being a problem, but the fact that even he looks disappointed by it tells a lot about the "reward"
Yes, I do wish he had made more of a point of it. Most seem to just be brushing it under the rug as another under-delivery.
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@Laluzi said:
Please. The way they teased the P3 rewards made it sound like it would be something you could show off to other players, and that's still more important to me than something only I can see in my character select screen.
It's frustrating because this is clearly a big deal to many, yet no attention is being given to it.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065571#Comment_3065571
Same here
I don't understand why many people suddenly settled for the better looking underwhelming reward.
Yes, it looks better, no, it's not the proper "reward" that was promised
(BTW I think PauleEsther mentioned this in one of his videos, and he's a Fog Whisperer)
I never saw Paulie comment on it, and definitely don't remember him ever making a point of it being a problem. Do you know which video this was?
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067505#Comment_3067505
I literally changed my Steam name to "P3 Grinder" currently struggling to get all killers to p3 but i am very close.
currently only 8 killers missing and they are all at least p1 or p2 with Blight only missing 16 more levels to be p3.
I really REALLY hope they add something to the after game lobby screen that indicates P3, because while the personal reward is nice, nobody else can see it and that irks me.
Yeah, I currently just have Twins left to get to P3. They're currently P2 lvl 4. I very much hope my ridiculous dedication to this is properly rewarded with the "bragging rights" they promised.
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@Springey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065485#Comment_3065485
This, the portraits are really cool, I love them, but it kinda sucks only you are able to see them...
Absolutely. I don't think it's asking for too much. It doesn't need to be complicated at all. As of now, I am STILL grinding for P3 in the hopes they will give us something that can be seen by others.
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This is a great idea. Many people have pitched in their ideas by now. I made a post about this issue myself. The more we draw attention to this, the more likely we are to see action!
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@david_king said:
I agree entirely. Thank you for voicing the disappointment a lot of players are feeling right now.
You're welcome. I just wish more people would bring attention to it. The more people voice their dissatisfaction, the more likely a response is. Especially if a content creator makes a point of it.
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@Cookie_Des_Lys said:
"However, this issue of "bragging rights" should also be addressed. "
That's the point !
Yeah, they haven't addressed it at all, despite promising it to us before they showed us the reward...
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334491/feedback-on-the-new-legacy-p3-reward
very well put together, this is exactly my issue with them
anything that someone else can see, even a small checkmark next to my name would be better than personal portraits
Yeah, something as small as that is all it would take.
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@Mewishis said:
Spent years p3ing characters, all my killers are p3 and nearly half of my survivors are as well and I agree with you, I did it in hopes that if there was ever again something similiar to legacy arriving I would be able to obtain it. Because legacy skins have always been my favorite as a console player dbd wasn't even released to console until much too late so I was hoping for when the devs looked at the grind again. Guess its bragging rights if you were a streamer or a youtuber, but its a cool effect. :c
Well, if posts like this get enough attention, perhaps the devs would consider listening to us. I very much hope they do, because for me it matters more than anything else in the update.
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@Mandy said:
Not a mod but I can answer this one...first of all, we do not just take feedback from the forums, we also have a lot of other platforms where we take feedback. This feedback is also discussed intently - I took part in the long meetings presenting this feedback, as that's my job.
When we go through the feedback from the PTB we're also very aware that there's a small number of people playing the actual PTB and please bare in mind that there's also no matchmaking on the PTB so all skill levels are together, which can sometimes skew peoples perceptions of things. So whilst we do clearly listen to feedback - the changes that we made from the PTB emphasises that point nicely....not all feedback can or will be implemented, as our Designers have to make the decision about what is best for the game overall.
Prestige icon feedback - we were very clear initially that this was not going to be something cosmetic, most people correctly figured out it would be something to do with the portraits based from that. The proposed portrait wasn't generally received positively so changes were made to it. We were always clear that this wasn't going to be a Legacy 2.0 outfit, nor was that ever the intention.
DS stun timer - the arguments have not been ignored, we've had some pretty lengthy discussions about them internally. This update was always going to be controversial due to the perks that we were changing, so we expected all of this. The fact that DS is used and the reasons why it was used were discussed. And we made the decision to go Live with the stun timer as it is, with the view that these things we can change in future if we find it's necessary.
We want to shake up the perks that people play with, keeping them the same strength would not accomplish that.
It's completely disingenuous to say we don't listen to feedback, when we clearly do - when we clearly have made changes based on that feedback. Of course we cannot possibly please everyone with the changes we make, as pretty much everyone has a differing of opinion. But I think we've shown time and time again that we do listen to feedback and it's not just from one place either.
I agree with everything besides the Legacy P3 reward. We are not saying that it should have been a cosmetic outfit or charm - you're essentially dodging the issue.
The issue everyone was talking about was the fact that the reward was personal and therefore pointless. Livestreams from devs promised an "icon" and promised "bragging rights". With a personal reward, who are we supposed to brag to? Ourselves? It doesn't make sense.
All you have to do is make some tiny thing that can be seen in the post-game lobby to distinguish this legacy achievement and the obscene amount of sacrifice we went through to get it. The community (myself included) have even offered many very easy ways to do this, but they were essentially ignored.
People didn't like the effct itself, yes, but that was only half of the issue. The main issue was the reward itself, not its presentation.
The fixing of its presentation is very much appreciated by all of us - it looks 100x better.
However, it would be nice if the issue of providing something small for bragging rights could be addressed too. We absolutely don't need this with next week's update since things like this take time - we understand that. I'm sure everyone would be content with knowing it could come down the line.
I'll make a post about this myself anyway, but I figured I'd post it here too. For some of us, this is quite a big deal. Think of us what you want, but that's just the truth.
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The current reward is awful. They don't necessarily have to give us something like legacy (even though they should), but even just having the portraits be visible in the post-game screen, or applying the stinkly plague vomit filter to the prestige medals instead would be better.
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Near-death Experience also remains bugged even with this new update... It's the last achievement I need.