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Gindaen
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074973#Comment_3074973
It's was never about NEED. Killers tunnel and camp because it's lazy, it's easy and it nets them decent points.
:begin sarcasm: Killers just need incentives to not tunnel and camp at-gen-5, that's why this is the greatest patch ever. Now that it's easy to get several 4ks in a row for even the worse skilled killer player, killers have completely stopped camping and tunneling at-gen-5. :end sarcasm:
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072091#Comment_3072091
Only for a very bad killer. Balancing for extremely bad killers is ruining the game.
Truer words have not been spoken.
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@Killing_Time said:
Then why does she get CRUSHED by survivors of equal skill like every other killer? If we match skill for skill, every killer gets stomped.
Comp Survivors vs Comp Nurse... Nurse stomped like 9/10 times.
She doesn't get crushed by survivors of equal skill, no killer is crushed by survivors of equal skill. Nurse crushes survivors of higher skill.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
For those who don't know, a bunch of QOL changes were announced within the 6th Anniversary Broadcast. You can read more here.
These are as follows:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HWJOLJG0W9Q5/img-20220726-190804.jpg
Obviously thus far we've received Matchmaking Incentives, the Prestige Overhaul, the Perk Overhaul, the Anniversary Event, the Loadouts, and the Menu.
Well, the Wiggle Skill-Checks and "Queue Times" (don't ask me why I wrote it like that, it refers to being able to navigate the rest of the game while in a queue) have been delayed until Q1 2023, as per an announcement on Twitter
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/76VXKAGXAR71/20220726-190658.jpg
That's all, and to anyone on PC I'm sorry for the screenshot taking up all of the screen.
It's kind of funny, but I think changing the wiggle mechanics, instead of giving survivors a choice, will about do me in for DBD. I absolutely hate the new wiggle mechanic, it's so horrible.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
The issue with killing yourself on hook is that you have to go back to the horrendous load times and find a lobby without survivors dodging, and then wait a full minute after that 90% of the time and then load into another game.
So while I kind of agree, I am not sure sitting in menus is any better than actually playing the game. Especially when you consider the next game is likely going to play out relatively similar.
I honestly don't know what to believe. There's a massive number of forum posts about solo-survivors suiciding on hook and DCing but I've also been told by forum goers that there's no problem with solo-queue. Then there's the streamers who are saying solo-queue is a mess.
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@Salinero said:
Dear fellow players, could you please stop killing yourself on first hook or disconnect if you don't want to play the game?
Save yourself and other players the frustration of another survivor giving up for no reason at all if you don't want to play anyway. If the current meta feels so bad to you why do you boot up the game just to ruin it for everyone else?
Survivors aren't ragequitting or suiciding-on-hook. At least that's what I've been told. Are you sure you're not making this a bigger deal than it really is? Maybe they're Dcing/suiciding-on-hook the same amount they always do and you're just imagining it being a bigger problem than it really is because of all the forum posts.
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@Confused_Senpai said:
I was a day one player, achieved rank 1 both killer and Surv, and used to play with my friends and wifey. This game used to be so much fun to play and now all my friends are leaving, my wife doesn't want to touch the game and I can't blame them with the current state of everything. This patch was a mess in a lot of ways and once again just showed the incompetence of BHVR's Balancing team. Solo Q is a disaster as it's always been, the games just stopped being fun, it's no longer fun on the Surv side for obvious reasons and it's no longer fun on the killer side when people run to you to be hooked and sacrificed. The devs have made a mess of the whole game in general, anyways I wish you all the best to those sticking around and may the entity favor your future games.
I think there's a lot of streamers that have started saying the same thing, solo-queue is an absolute mess after this patch. So maybe now that streamers are pointing out the problems with this patch and the need to buff solo-queue as a priority, maybe the developers will patch this up by next Tuesday.
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@PaintedDeath said:
So I was experimenting with Hex: Ruin to see what kind of value you can get from it, and wanted to submit my findings.
So I think that the added 10 secs to Gen repair speed kind of translates into a basekit Ruin for Killer. The thing is, this basekit Ruin, combined with the actual perk kind of equates into the traditional Ruin's strength. Now, Hex's are known for being unreliable, they can be caught almost immediately at the beginning sometime, but if you're lucky sometimes they won't. What Ruin's real strength now is, is as bait for other totems. Have your Hex: Haunted Ground, or your Hex: Retribution paired up with Hex: Ruin, and the Survivors are going to almost immediately know that Hex: Ruin is in action. They can choose to ignore it, which is fine because gens take an extra 10 secs anyway, or they can hunt the totem, burning gen time doing so. If you have a high mobility Killer, it's even better because you can just chase them off the gens. Eventually someone is gonna decide that Hex: Ruin needs to go and start hunting for it. If you set it up so that it's being used as bait, hopefully they start going after your totems and pop one of your traps. If they cleanse and bless the totem, it let's you know immediately where the boon totem is. It's actually a pretty nice little combo.
Hex: Ruin is still very viable. It should have been nerfed as hard as Dead Hard was nerfed.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093811#Comment_3093811
I largely play solo queue when I play survivor and while the first couple of days were awful with rage quits, it's largely died down for me.
Bringing up people are rage quitting games as some indicator of balance is flawed. People rage quit before this patch, people will rage quit after this patch, people will rage quit the following patch.
We should not be balancing the game around rage quitters. If things are truly as awful as they are either don't queue up as survivor and let the numbers speak for themselves or play out survivor games and let the devs get actual data on what is being overused or over performing.
I don't play solo-queue, I play SWF or Killer. It seems as if solo-queue got screwed this patch and judging by all the forum posts about DCing and Suiciding on hook and Killer queue times being bad, it seems as if there's an issue.
But heck, maybe everything is peachy-keen. If so, then nothing needs to be done.
For me, I find the whole thing fascinating. Again, I haven't played but maybe 10ish games after the patch released and that was with an SWF. I will say, that after stopping the game, I'm much happier and not as frustrated.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093685#Comment_3093685
And thats the moment I tunnel this survivor out und give a fck about the rest of the match.
So you're doing what every other killer is already doing. Doesn't sound as if it matters what survivor does anyway. So why not BM as a survivor, you're not going to win the game anyway.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093758#Comment_3093758
This is far from brand new behavior.
Survivors have been d/cing and suciding on hooks before this patch drop. The whole reason the dc penalties got added was because people were d/cing too much and it was ruining games.
I'm talking about the amount it has increased. You always expect some DCing, suiciding on hook and AFKing but not at the massive rate it is now.
Solo-queue players have given up hope of winning the game, so they're screwing around. Eventually they're just going to quit. Solo-queue isn't invested in the game like the other groups. If they aren't having fun, they'll move on.
I don't understand how people aren't realizing this. Solo-queue players are a whole different animal that killer mains, hybrid mains and SWFs. (I'm a hybrid, so you know my perspective. I'm currently not really playing the game, to be honest. I think if looked at what is happening right now from an outside perspective, people would start realizing what's happening).
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093782#Comment_3093782
It's not a viable choice. And there's no reason why they can't implement the option to have console only cross, something many people want.
I've always wondered, can't console players cheat also? I swear I've been in lobbies with cheating console players.
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@acharliet said:
My question is why some survivors still using self-care, they even dont run botany knowledge with it. Just self care.
Solo queue players have 4 slots that have to do as much as SWF. Self-Care is the most perk-slot efficient perk, even though it sucks. Also, solo-queue players have given up hope of winning games anymore after this patch, so why does it matter what they play.
(I'm not a solo-queue player, I'm just answering your question).
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093179#Comment_3093179
It's not really a choice when the alternative is waiting 30-40 minutes for a match. And yes, I've experienced that with cross play off. Instead we need console only crossplay as a choice for people.
Still a choice. You just choose not to use that choice.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093371#Comment_3093371
It's tricky, but it can be done. The problem is that any fix is going to have to be implemented very carefully, so that people can't abuse it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093388#Comment_3093388
This.
So much this.
When people are sulking, the worst thing you can do is give in to them - because all that means is they pout harder the next time.
Everyone needs to calm down, focus on the few things that obviously need to change in the short term (DS being one) and adapt. Once a new meta settles, we can see where we stand.
Well, if you figure out how to fix social media echo chambers, then you need to get a job in the government because that's a massive problem that the government is having and they don't seem to know how to fix it.
If I'm correct, it's possible you can fix it. And I'm pretty sure I'm right. Heck, I called all of this happening before the patch released. And now I'm calling this... The best way to fix this is to do it immediately before they lose what little faith solo-queue players have in BHVR. They need to buff solo-queue pronto.
I'm not a solo queue player but this issue is pretty much right there in everyones face if they just look.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093324#Comment_3093324
The game shouldn't be balanced around those not even attempting to win.
Survivors weren't doing this before, you do see that? This is a brand new behavior and it's a symptom of a problem. How does anyone expect to keep playing this game if one side just stops caring. Which is what is happening.
You can't play killer if there's no survivors.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093332#Comment_3093332
Survivors are probably bored at fixing gens but they went too fast before update and devs are nlt interested adding secondary objectives for survivors so for now gens has to be slow. In friday 13th you need 5s to fix car but before you can do that you have to find parts for it. If dbd add secondary objectives maybe gens could be slowed down to 60s if the second objetive last roughly 30s per gen.
Survivors aren't bored. Survivors just aren't invested in this game like killer mains and hybrid mains are. This is a brand new behavior, it means something. Otherwise survivors would have been doing this previously.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093371#Comment_3093371
It's tricky, but it can be done. The problem is that any fix is going to have to be implemented very carefully, so that people can't abuse it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093388#Comment_3093388
This.
So much this.
When people are sulking, the worst thing you can do is give in to them - because all that means is they pout harder the next time.
Everyone needs to calm down, focus on the few things that obviously need to change in the short term (DS being one) and adapt. Once a new meta settles, we can see where we stand.
I am really surprised there are so few people understanding what is happening. This is what I'm seeing (I usually play Killer or SWF about equally, so I don't feel like I have any biases with solo-queue players).
You have a group of people, solo survivor queue, that has been crapped on since the game has been out. They've always been expected to lose 15% more games than an SWF, so they're already bitter. They make up the biggest group of players in the game (I think I'm correct on this). They are the least invested players in the game.
Considering those 3 factors and then combine that with a mess of a patch that directly screws solo queue players. A patch, which a lot of players already told the developers on the PTB, that there were too many killer buffs. And all the resentment boils to the top.
So now, you have a lot of solo-queue players losing every game (Yes, there are solo-queue players that aren't experiencing that, but you have a lot that are). Solo-queue have become hopeless with the game, so anything that goes wrong, they go and start DCing, AFKing, Suiciding or just screwing around and not playing the game. Eventually they're just going to quit.
Everyone is assuming Solo-queue players are going to act the same way Killer players, hybrid players or SWF players are going to act when a bad patch drops. However, that group of players doesn't have similarities to the other 3 groups. That group of players isn't invested in the game, the other 3 groups are a lot more invested with killer mains being heavily invested in the game.
So a bad patch for killers causes a bunch of complaining, because they're so heavily invested in the game, in fact there's a lot of killer players that use this game as a job and stream it.
A bad patch for solo-queue is going to have a much more drastic effect and we're seeing it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093352#Comment_3093352
It's really not that hard to fix things, you're blowing it out of proportion.
A couple tweaks and everything is fine.
Maybe I am. It's hard to tell.
But the way I see it, the patch effects the group least invested in the game, solo survivor. So you have all the enmity that has built up from always being on screwed over every patch, with the fact they are also the least invested in game and the fact that they are the largest player group (I believe).
It seems to me like all of that has boiled over now that the patch is released, and that's why everyone is DCing and Suiciding on Hook.
And the problem now, is you have to coddle that group by giving them enough so that they aren't mad.
I find it interesting and I'm curious to see what happens. But I personally think this is a much bigger problem than people are realizing because it's been going on so long and this being the final straw for a lot of solo-queue players. Again, just opinion.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093324#Comment_3093324
Or, it indicates the power of gaming echo chambers, where people will sulk and pout about any changes that make their role more difficult, regardless of merit.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093339#Comment_3093339
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093326#Comment_3093326
Eh.
The issue is that camping and tunneling are still too effective for how much effort they take, and too difficult to counter while also being extremely unfun to face.
It's not easy to fix, and this patch was an...okay start, but it still needs more attention.
Maybe. If it is, I guess the game is screwed. Because then there's no fix for it.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I don't want to play Solo Q anymore. I got tired after few days of awfull games more than ever.
I have quit playing DBD. Just not worth the stress. Maybe the developers will be able to fix this but they are going to run into another major issue fixing this. There's going to be a massive amount of butthurt from Killer players, because the developers basically gave killer-players a bunch of gold on a silver platter. It's going to be a mess trying to get all that gold back.
I kind of wonder if this patch didn't sink the game, to be honest. If you don't fix this current mess quickly (which isn't happening yet that I see), and survivors will start quitting in mass (after they've gotten tired of AFKing, DCing and Suiciding on Hook). If you revert this mess of a patch, Killers will be butthurt, because you basically gave them everything and taking it back will just anger them.
I'm curious how the developers will solve this pickle they got themselves into.
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@Biscuits said:
Could be as simple as people stopped having fun in that match.
If survivors are DCing, AFKing and Suiciding on hook more than normal, then you are seeing a symptom of a problem. Trying to fix DCing, AFKing and Suciding on hook without addressing the problem is like sticking your finger in a leaking dam, the leaks will just appear somewhere else.
Eventually survivors are going to get fed-up and start leaving the game in mass. Then there won't be a game.
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@Tostapane said:
Not joking, I see everywhere survivors that are throwing the game on purpose as "protest" regarding the buffs that killer got... It's a SHAME.
in the beginning I already saw a couple of posts regarding this issue and I was thinking that the people that were writing those things were overexxagerating, but then I tried to do a couple of matches and I saw people LITERALLY CHASING me for wanting to be sacrificed. I even asked to a friend of mine to do some matches as killer and to stream them in order to see if I was just unlucky to find those kind of people, but the results were the same: people that let themselves die on the hook, people that kept staying idle and tbagging when the killer was looking at them, heck, even a couple of "sandbaggers"
If survivors are doing this, then this is a symptom of a problem, not the actual problem.
When all the survivors finally have had enough and start quitting, what game will you start playing then? Killers don't exist without survivors.
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@EntitySpawn said:
Seriously too many survivors arent even bothering with objectives, they just running round do basically nothing waiting for saves...
BHVR need to start tracking the actual objective progress in matches and see that alot of the player base just dont do gens and we shouldn't balance around those players.
Instead of fixing the problem, you are advocating to fix the symptom.
If players aren't having fun and are not doing objectives, DCing and Suiciding, the indicates a game health problem, not a player problem. But maybe you'll be happy when all the survivor players quit and you can play killer without having to deal with survivors at all.
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@NegativeZEN said:
I shouldn't have to spend 30 minutes leveling up just because I'm BP maxed out
I propose a long overdue button that will auto claim all items and perks. The auto mechanics can be tweaked to where it automatically tries to go towards two perks to choose from. Then the player will manually have to choose which perk, at which it will continue to level up.
I don't care about what items I get. I just think this would overall help with the health of the game and allow players to "get back to the action" quicker and thus, shorter wait times.
Thoughts? 🤔
It should include always going the best path to get the optimal number of perks.
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@SekiSeki said:
I didn't see a single solution reading through all of that. I think it is fine to bring up criticism but at least give something to work with. All I got was stop making money and remove content from the game. Yes, some issues you bring up are valid but share some ideas for improving the game. Just from reading your post, you seem miserable with the game. If it has held your attention this long, it must be doing something right.
I think variety is good for the game. I think that what they are doing with the patches is a great direction. They've promised more updates like this in the future, and I am eager to see the direction they take.
Really, it's the developers who need to come up with a solution. He's just pointing them out.
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@tamsmi said:
do yall ever think that if a brand new killer is getting 4k's on survivors that have upwards of 1k, 2k and 3k hours they might be buffed a little too much? maybe the answer isnt that the 3k hour player doesnt know how to play? like come on. be serious
It's not balance if someone without any skill or knowledge in the game is winning against someone with a lot of skill and knowledge at the game. This patch made killer easy to play and solo queue much much harder to play.
I'm surprised that skilled killers aren't upset about this match, because now, mid skilled killers are just as good as high skilled killers. There's no differentiating them.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093140#Comment_3093140
If I'm waiting 10+mins for a match you can bet I'll be waiting 1hr + with it off...
That's not a choice I'm afraid
It is a choice.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088316#Comment_3088316
I'm sorry, but I don't blame people for quitting when they go against Blight, Nurse and Spirit using a ton of slowdown perks (tunneling/camping as well). Let's not forget Thana Legion as well. I'm talking about suiciding on hook, not DC'ing.
Honestly, I can't blame people for quitting against a lot of stuff. It's like Killers expect 4 people to continue playing a miserable game just so they can have fun.
Who in their right mind sits through a Blight who has already killed someone and 5 gens are left. A Nurse that's slugged everyone in 1 minute (I don't even understand why people play Nurse at this point. I mean honestly, do people actually like winning in 30 sec flat. Seems lame). A Legion where the game lasts 30 minutes. Face-camping at gen 5.
If the killer obviously doesn't want to play the game, why should the survivor.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091411#Comment_3091411
I usually look at:
If a game is decently placed (or even existing, really) on that list, it's doing fine for viability, as that's compared to ~50000 other games on the platform.
Mind you, this is Steam exclusive, so it doesn't take into account Console (vast majority of player base) or Epic/Stadia where the game was available for free for various reasons/periods.
Yeah,
I don't understand why people are even using Steam to prove or disprove DBD is failing. Only a small number of DBD players are on Steam, so to me, it just seems useless for pulling data.
I don't even know if you can use it as a sample because it's a homogenous group of computer players. Do computer players have the same behaviors as console players. I don't know.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091378#Comment_3091378
Oh I know, I'm just tired of people twisting that video into "Scott is okay with tunneling" despite saying several times in the video I know it's not good for the game.
What I don't understand is why everyone can see that tunneling-at-gen-5 and camping-at-gen-5 is horrible for the game. It runs new players off, it runs 1k+ hour players off and it's not even fun for the killer. It's just bad all around and yet it's been in the game 6 years. And this patch literally was a buff to both of these tactics.
I can think of a multitude of ways to fix it. A game developer, should even have more ideas that I have. I just don't get it.
BTW, love your content. Glad you came back to doing DBD videos again.
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@EternalSinOfCain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090974#Comment_3090974
That's because "We want to be chased all game! That's what's fun!" was a lie told by Survivors way back when.
Back before patch 1.4.0 Looping was nowhere near as powerful as it is today. In Patch 1.4.0 the developers re-sized the Survivors hit boxes to be smaller, in order to help Survivors not get hit out in the open so easy, and to help compensate for latency issues. This had an unintentional effect, as Survivors found out they could now hug objects much tighter than before. This, in turn, meant they could run around objects in tighter, and therefore, faster circles than Killers could. Before this, you could get MAYBE one Loop out of a Pallet. Instead of the usual 2-3 now, before having to drop it. Thus, Looping as it is known today was born. This, by all accounts, makes Looping an Exploit as it fits the definition of video game exploits.
See Link here -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit
Survivors, still reeling from the loss of true Infinites, took to this like fish to water. The developers planned to fix it at first, but quickly decided to leave it in the game and try to balance around it due to pressure from their Survivor player base. The majority player base of Survivor Mains just couldn't win without having something that was blatantly game breaking to abuse. Most Survivors then told the biggest lie in the games history : "We want to be chased all game! That's what's fun!" In order to protect this new exploit. The developers caved, and have been struggling to re-balance the game for its inclusion ever since.
Killers were simply ill-equipped to deal with Looping and Stealth. This is why Killers now have a PLETHORA of aura reading perks, add ons, powers, and abilities. This was also the reason Bloodlust was shoehorned into the game. It was a band-aid mechanic to try to help killers against looping being so overpowering. The developers gave the Survivors what they wanted, to be chased all game and let them have their loops. They are simply trying to give both sides what they want. Killers the power to be able to stand up to Looping, Survivors the game play they wanted. Though truth is, neither side is very happy. In short : Killers are getting the balance they wanted (I say getting cause they still aren't there yet). However, not the game play they want. Survivors got the game play they wanted, but not the balance they want (as in being OP as hell).
(In case anyone is wondering, the above is a copy paste I typed up 4 years ago.)
Now, being chased all game isn't so much fun. All because it's not an automatic win, seeing as the game is FINALLY being balanced for Looping, and the 2nd chance Crutch perk meta is nerfed. It goes to show, I knew what many Survivors were REALLY thinking way back when. Being chased all game is fun, but for many survivors, it's only fun if they win. If they loose because of it, then it's "not fun." Many Survivors have a long standing record of using "X is/isn't fun" as a weapon, to browbeat the developers into changing the game so the balance is in their favor.
The biggest issue now with camping/tunneling is many Survivors are so used to being able to Loop, blow all their 2nd chance perks, AND STILL SURVIVE, they are mad they can't now. If one person has to die, ONE PERSON DIES. Many Survivors still consider DBD a 1v1 FOUR TIMES OVER, not a 1v4. Which is completely backwards. Many have developed a "Hero Complex", being able to "beat the killer" and still escape. Sure, you can't kill the killer, but having the Killer chase you all game and still getting out is "beating the killer". Now that it usually doesn't happen, they aren't happy about it.
I've been playing a lot of Survivor and doing decently. However my biggest problem is team mates. I'm solo Queue and there are two major factors that play into any loss I may get.
Firstly : Rage Quitting. Some Survivors are just ANGRY AS HELL and are purposely throwing the match and disconnecting or "offing themselves" on their first hook. Some are simply doing it to artificially inflate kill rates, to skew the developers data in order to get buffs so they can "Hero" and often times bully killers again.
Secondly : Simply playing stupid because they are so used to old meta plays. They try to do stupid hook saves in the killers face, ungodly amount of hook trades, rushing a gen while injured when the killer is nearby cause they are used to "Press E to avoid hit or make it to safe Loop", you name it. They CONTINUE to play like they are a "Hero" that can just keep taking smacks over and over.
Instead of taking solace in the fact they wasted a good amount of the killers time, and they really helped their team, they are only concerned about themselves. This "MeMeMe" mentality is because they are used to being a "Hero", not a scared weak Survivor.
Thus, Looping as it is known today was born. This, by all accounts, makes Looping an Exploit as it fits the definition of video game exploits.
Looping is not an exploit.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091218#Comment_3091218
But that's the thing. I don't think the game is fundamentally unfair at the moment. I believe the only real issues are the MMR putting players with different levels together (same team or opposing player) and the people leaving instead of trying to do better.
Every solo game I've played since 6.1.0 was either ruined by these, either ranging from fine to fun. It also went progressively better as the rage-quitters are staying at the bottom of the MMR pit.
There may be adjustments tomorrow. We'll see what happens.
You don't address the symptom as a medical doctor, you address the problem. If DCing/Suiciding on hook is increasing, then it's a sign of a problem. Addressing DCing/Suiciding on hook does nothing, because you're addressing the symptom.
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091161#Comment_3091161
Camping is guaranteeing a kill while suicide on hook is giving up on the match, they are not the same thing.
This is more a question of what works. You obviously believe penalties work to prevent unwanted behavior. So why not use penalties to prevent camping-at-gen-5, just like you do for DCs? Is it really fair that you give incentives to one side and punishments to the other side.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091157#Comment_3091157
I don't what to tell you. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
Listed in "not bannable offenses".
DC however, is bannable and doesn't even need to be reported.
Isn't this really just logic chopping.
I mean I can say that suiciding-on-hook is a legal tactic, just the same as 1-step-camping.
You're kind of ignoring the big picture for all of these little meaningless nitpicks.
As a whole, you either incentivize players or you punish players. Incentivizing one side and punishing the other side is unfair and your player base knows it. The worse thing a game can be is unfair.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
I am having a lot of fun. I am off a break specifically BECAUSE it is fun. I could have just kept chilling. I still have to finish my Genshin Event, after all. I am playing more survivor than usual as well. Usually I am kicking and screaming to play that role, but now I want to. No idea why, though. Maybe just because the challenges are doable and there are no cringe ones.
I took a break from the game also and started back to LOL. I chat on the boards but don't really have any interest in coming back to the game at this point. There's just too many toxic people playing DBD anymore. I can't believe that DBD has more toxic players than LOL but they do. It's like some people's job is just get on DBD with the sole intention of being toxic.
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@loveontherocks said:
It's true that if you're being tunneled and killed early it's likely that you're not very good. My response is...so what? Should having one bad player on a team doom the rest of the survivors to certain defeat? This isn't Dota. We're all here to have a good time.
Incentives should be aligned so that the most effective way to play is also fair. Right now the best strategy for a killer who wants to win is to pick out the weakest survivor and get them out of the game as fast as possible. Nobody feels good about that, not even most killers. Flashlight-clicking neon-clothed survivors who love being chased are not the ones complaining on the forums, and they are a small minority of the player base.
If you believe killers should get incentives to not camp, then you also believe that survivors should get incentives to not suicide on hook/DC?
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091013#Comment_3091013
I believe killers need incentive not to camp and tunnel, but DCs need to be punished. Let's chalk it up to opinion, I just wanted to precise the way I saw that picture.
But why? Both are unwanted behaviors. Why would giving incentives to one side and punishing the other side make sense.
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@ModernFable said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091026#Comment_3091026
This sums up much of my thoughts as well. Being chased is a fun "part" of the game, but whether it's the fun-est part of the game is up for debate and even so there's a limit to it.
The planning and moment to moment decision making makes up a chunk of that fun too.
And besides, even if we were to say that it is the fun-est part of the game, too much of something is not good.
Just because I love eating burgers, does not mean I "only" want to eat burgers. And that's all tunneling is from the survivor perspective, with the added awful bonus that you don't get to play the game for very long.
Also, the developers made chases way shorter because of all the chasing buffs Killers got. So even though chasing is the most fun part of the game, the developers pretty much got rid of most of the chase mechanics that survivors had. Killers attack faster, bloodlust happens faster, killer break pallets faster, Dead Hard was pretty much removed.
Sure the top tier players can still loop killers but mid tier players just go down instantly, you just removed the ability for mid-tier players to perform chases that last any amount of time.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090962#Comment_3090962
Do I need to point out the killer is in the opposing team? A DC mostly ruins teammate's.
Besides, camping and tunneling, as annoying they can be, are valid tactics.
I'm not going to waste time on arguing semantics, because we can go down that rabbit-hole all day long. And to be honest, that's just static anyway, unimportant. Either the developers believe in incentives to prevent bad behavior or they believe in punishments for bad behavior. You can't have one set of rules for one group and an entirely separate set of rules for another group.
Either Killers need incentives to not tunnel/camp-at-gen-5, which means that Survivors also need incentives to not DC/Suicide
or
Killers needed punished for tunnel/camp-at-gen-5, which means Survivors also need punished for DCing/Suiciding.
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@Aneurysm said:
I always see this argument, "If survivors are DCing and giving up on hook it's a sign there's something seriously wrong with the game"
I'd be interested to know what specific balance issues are being demonstrated when I down a survivor with clown or wraith or something and they DC, pre- or post-patch.
If you (general "you") think that survivor is unplayable you will be compelled to instantly remove yourself from any game you load into, why tf are you still playing survivor?
I think the part you are missing is that "If survivors are DCing and suiciding "more-than-normal", it's a sign of game health issues".
That seems to be happening after this patch at an extremely high rate, unseen in previous patches. It indicates that survivors (maybe solo queue) hate the game so bad that they are DCing/Suiciding on hook.
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@TheSubstitute said:
I thought it was a pretty good video and, in my opinion, most people playing survivor are in the they want a bit of gens, bit of being chased, bit of a break from being chased off hook, repeat.
I'm in that group too but I do have to admit I like stacking OTR with DS for the satisfaction of knowing that if I'm tunneled I'm extremely annoying to tunnel and there's a very good chance the Killer threw the entire game to get me.
Also, the build mentioned of OTR, Overcome and Quick and Quiet sounds pretty cool.
The fact that a solo queue player is forced to use half his perks on OTR and DS just so he can de-incentivize tunneling means that solo queue players only have 2 slots to use for everything else they need. That's a sad state of affairs for solo-queue.
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@cburton311 said:
dead perk
It's never been a live perk. It's been buried in a graveyard somewhere collecting dust, all the developers did was throw a dead racoon in there with it.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090936#Comment_3090936
I'd rather see them not ruin games for the ones who are playing and trying.
Camping ruins games too. Why is it that killers need compensation to not ruin a survivors experience but a survivor should be punished for ruining a killers experience.
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@Kees_T said:
Dead Hard needed a nerf because it was saturared, being used in basically 95% of the matches
Iron Will makes you 100% silently by just being injured, killing the most important thing about the Killer gameplay: tracking by sound
Spine Chill gave you free information without you needing to be aware of your surrounds
Self Care was always bad even before the nerf, it was and is basically a waste of slot if you're not using botany with it.
I feel impressed that a player with so much hours into the game can't see these problems(bait?). Lets not pretend that most of these perks carried so many people, including me, for so much years, and now they're gone, people are struggling to play without them because they relied so much on it then their own gameplay.
If it's being used in 95% of matches, doesn't that mean that nerfing it severally nerfs survivors. You can expect a perk used in 95% of matches to not be needed by survivors.
BTW, it's actually 75% of matches, from the developers data.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090188#Comment_3090188
They're based off of getting matched with suboptimal teams, and then having your streak taken away by the 1 good team. That's all it is.
300 suboptimal teams in a row. Isn't this amount of mental gymnastics fit for the olympics?
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@drsoontm said:
This can be seen as the symptom the DC penalties aren't enough.
Do you think DC penalties mean a thing to a person not enjoying the game.
And also, isn't the whole killer-theory on camping to give killers an incentive not to camp, not to punish them. Doesn't that not also apply to DCs?
Maybe instead of punishing DCs, maybe incentives should be made to keep players from DCing.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081794#Comment_3081794
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F7B6LYWZ4VMR/image.png
This is April 22 - May 22, from an aggregate data site.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CABSRU3FOTN3/image.png
This is June 21 - July 21, from an aggregate site.
So it looks like kill rates have went up about 1.72% for the 3 out of 30 days the patch has been active. I'm curious to see what happens after a full month has passed.
This is interesting. The kill rate is up to 51.2% in just 5 days of the patch being released.
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@ArchAbhor said:
I'll preface with a few things. One camping was not addressed at all. Two there is still bs in the game to deal with like some broken nurse and blight builds/add ons. Three Soloq was left behind big time in this patch.
With that out of the way I want to talk about how many people are throwing tantrums and then claiming the game is this or that. Soloq is miserable right now. Not because of the killer buffs but because people are refusing to humor it. Every game I play I have someone rage quitting. Usually I would say that they can just rage until they dont play anymore then we can get some good games. However them playing like they are is going to blow the data way out of proportion.
I think this patch was a step in the right direction. After 2 or 3 more we might see some good balance brought to the game. My hope is the devs don't see this and automatically revert this patch because people rage quitting artificially bloats kill rates. Think about it. Its not just that one person that is getting killed its the whole team. I'm not talking dcs either. People just one hook themselves if they don't like who they're playing against or what map they're on.
I see it in my killer games too, but that doesn't mean that the buffs were over tuned or anything. I still face swfs or great players who can tie and beat me. Which are good matchs. Which proves that if teams are trying that they can still be competitive. Minus outliers that I prefaced. Thats why I view this patch favorably.
I'm just pointing it out so that if the devs aren't clued in on this maybe they'll take it into consideration when they gather data, and we as a community take this into consideration when playing so that they can gather proper data and not screw over our teams. I just want to see the game get better.
Edit: I love how even when prefacing the post with issues on survivor side. People are still trying to make this a us vs them argument. Those are the people not to listen to. Biased to a fault
There's one piece of good data, survivors absolutely hate it.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088292#Comment_3088292
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088303#Comment_3088303
fun fact, deciding to ragequit by DC/suiciding on hook and ruining the game for the other 4 players in the lobby because you don’t feel like facing something that’s a part of the game that is available to be used is on you, not them
That doesn't matter. What matter is it's happening at a lot now, indicating a problem with game health.