GeneralSkien
GeneralSkien
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@DBD78 said:
If they succeed or not Skullie will always be hated that won't change. People see her they quit fun or not. I hope they make her more fun to play and play against!
I don't have a problem with todays Skullie. The only problem I have is how she looks and walks like a p*rnstar and not a killer. I find that ridiculous. But I'm 47 I guess the teenage players have a different opinion.
What are you talking about????
This is a complete redesign of her power, why are you being somewhat weird about this -
might get flamed but, this isn't a bad rework at all. People have been saying if you want skull merchant to work you would need to completely redo her kit from the ground up, so they did. This definitely feels like a mix between Hag and Artist, and I am excited to see how things go. If the drones are as stealthy as they say this could have potential to be a trap killer that is fun and even might be good!?
that being said, the hacking change is annoying, it has even less risk now, and now can have a net benefit the survivors? The point of hacking a drone is to disable to drone, you don't need to tack on aura reading onto this, it just doesn't make sense. Full removal of the claw traps are also annoying, they could be redone, like after getting scanned by the global radar system, they get a claw trap which allows auto targeting of drones? again this is an out there Idea but a full removal of claw traps feels like a waste when they absolutely can serve some purpose in this new kit is somewhat sad.
One issue I have is aesthetic, while balance wise, its perfect, and it sounds really fun, it just feels strange aesthetic wise. -
@VolantConch1719 said:
Very simple design (Just guy in hoodie, leather jacket and a very basic mask, I literally made this costume for 2019 Halloween with just a jacket, hoodie, and a paper plate, though Susie & Joey are a bit trickier) that's also easily marketable.
Very simple gameplay loop that still manages to be very enjoyable (You run around and stab stuff, what better adrenaline rush is there).
A lot of opportunities for lore expansion (Albeit almost never successfully, I'm pretty sure they get retconned every other update, I mean wasn't Susie's whole thing that she was originally unwilling?)
Longevity (They still feel like the new kids on the block to me, but they've been around for well over half the game's lifespan, which just makes me feel old).
Demographic (Let's face it, most of DBD's playerbase is late teens to early twenties, which is basically the exact demographic of Legion's own ages).
Music (Very popular genre of music for their theme, plus they're the only ones who can alter their Terror Radius).
Just general vibe (Edgelord teens who just want to rebel).
There's probably more that I can't think of, but I think this covers a good chunk of why Legion, one of the most upopular Killers, is also one of the most popular Killers.
Oh, and that jacket I used for my Legion costume… I still use it 6 years later. It's very comfortable.
It just feels kinda crazy, if you think about it they are one of the more "Basic" killers, chapter 10, but there are over 30 chapters in DBD. Its kinda crazy how popular Legion is, ive seen people wear the Legion costume, and some don't even know DBD. Its just a bit crazy. Again, you got collabs with Balatro, they have comicbooks, figurines so much, an outsider would assume that legion has been in the game since Day 1
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@shadow_V said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879924#Comment_3879924
Last skull merchant I went up against abused knock out to slugg us all game so no we're not spoiled it's just the killer's attitude and the way they decide to play I think it would be fun to play against her now she's balanced (giving us a peg/dot for disabling a drone something we HAVE to do was overkill) but these greedy abusing tunneling camping killers apparently don't know how to play decently there's a reason why mama disciplined us as kids when we didn't play fair it makes it fun for no one except you
This is a very bad faith argument, there are like a ton of characters who can do that but way better, it just happens to be a skull merchant. (Theory is that toxic people flock to skull merchant to enjoy this play style cause of the stigma, and how much it will tilt people) Players will always try to be toxic, but nerfing a character or refusing to buff a character because the players use her in a toxic way (At this point unrelated to her power) It feels like you and many other players are attributing traits incorrectly.
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@Aceislife said:
How many hours do you have to play until you start seeing nightmares about DBD, asking for a friend
I haven’t played DBD in a while, that’s the strange part
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
I’m sorry but I think this post is really funny.
this post was definitely humorous! I wrote it cause it was a nightmare I had while sleeping, and my reaction was so much I woke up from the nightmare to make sure it wasn’t real.
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We have reached the DBD stage where plot twist is problematic, oh no
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The MAIN issue with skull merchant stems from both her original design, and her rework, however they all share a massive problem, which is bloat, Skull Merchant was designed to be a trap killer but she was too good at area denial that it allowed people to just place the drone on generators, the first rework was supposed to solve this, but it didn't help at all. the second rework was supposed to push her trap, and area lockdown playstyle into a pure chase power, and sadly she was just too unfun to chase
With everything BHVR learned from the first 2 reworks they need to take parts of both and, clean up the clutter and bloat skull merchant hasWhat should be removed
- Haste
- Undetectable
- Radar speed decrease
- The notion that she is a chase killer, and not a trap killer
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Listen, and ill say this from someone who has been defending skull merchant to an extreme degree.
It's not a bad change, its still an overall power decrease
-Reduced Hindered
-Slowed while deploying Drone, and checking radar
-Stealth mode removed
-Single, easier to dodge beam (Additionally can avoid scan line with fast vault)
-harder to get haste, and lasts significantly shorter (About to touch on that below)
+Drone rotates faster (To offset scan line nerf)
+Haste is back kinda????? (Baffles me, while the nerfs were controversial, haste being gone was universally celebrated by Survivor players, and Skull Merchant players, although it was added to off set the radar slowing you down so I guess its alright)
Again its an overall power decrease that makes counterplay alot easier, any Skull Merchant players who complain at this point (About the strength of skull merchant, not about its design) kinda comes off as disingenuous she isn't gutted, she was just given a strength decrease, and that was the point.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811996#Comment_3811996
She gets haste only if survivor gets detected 5 seconds after deploying or rotating drone, no?
Yeah, People are complaining that SM is stronger than ever but that is just plain lies.
Without getting people heated this is still a straight up nerf, but its more on the "Spirit nerfs" than what freddy go, C tier killer
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
So instead of being worse than Freddy, she will be just as bad as Freddy. That's…certainly one of the choices of all time.
At least he'll have a friend now, I guess.
okay I’ve been defending skull merchant a lot but these changes seem good???
The 4.4 sounds bad on theory but the point is to GET the haste then put down the radar, with this change you shouldn’t hold the radar 24/7
The hindered also isn’t complete useless, and they made rotation faster as well
it’s an overall nerf but it is honestly a Mid to high B tier to C tier, these changes are fine -
@cclain said:
good , SM is unhealthy for the game
she gets haste from scans, although it’s only 5 seconds, and to get the haste it has to be from recently rotated or placed drones
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
We did get in the livestream, they said that while they are going through with the Finisher Mori, the following changes will be made.
1. The Cypress Mori will be removed and everyone will be compensated with 1,000,000 Bloodpoints.2. The remaining Mori will be unchanged, and will allow for additional Mori opportunities.
3. Not a change from the PTB, but a reminder that Perks and Killer abilities remain unchanged.I used to fall and except doomerism but no more! They didn't say anything yet, and there has already been confirmed that changes are happening from PTB they have been listening to feedback!
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now that these changes have come to be able to publicly test, I can confidently say these changes are very bad
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800125#Comment_3800125
Because people will always hate her because its a meme to hate her. It has nothing to do with her power and everything to do with 'SKULL MERCHANT BAD!' she could have no power and only M1 and people would still say shes OP and needs to be removed
Listen, as much as I have been defending skull merchant, you must admit her problem is somewhat problematic. Her changes are way to overboard, but I still think her power was still a bit much.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
DMS is over nerfed. Skull Merchant is slaughtered.
DMS got buffed? yeah it only activates on 1 generator, but now its gonna be INSANE with pain res
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800548#Comment_3800548
- Yes, these are holdover nerfs
- Yes, this is a gutting
- No, this is not to make her unplayable
- The goal is to make her less frustrating to play against in the meantime until her rework
Skull Merchant will still be playable. You will enjoy her less, though.
unplayable may be a stretch, there isn’t a killer that isn’t “unplayable” as you can play as any killer except demo for 2 years, but what I’m trying to say on playability is that she will be very, very bad, it’s not hyperbole to say she will be around D tier, cause doing all that to only apply a 5% hinder simply isn’t worth it when there are better killers
I’m not even an avid skull merchant player, I dropped her around 4 months ago cause I wanted to try other play styles. I’m kinda inbetween doctor, and spirit in terms of killers I currently enjoy.
I am very vocal about skull merchant cause
- I used to main her, and dealing with so much of negative reactions is what drove me to stop playing her
- This is a very long pattern of behavior of messing up balancing and not listening to community feedback. There has been so many victims in recent time to poor balancing, twins, trickster, knight, all have taken severe changes that make the killer worse to play, leading to changes being reversed, or just staple on nerfs. I don’t like the direct they have taken their reworks, so to gut skull merchant for the promise of another failed rework feels very disheartening.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800197#Comment_3800197
My main thing with MfT is DH is on the Killer to fail, not the Survivor to succeed. That to me basically means you don't (normally) get actual MfT value. SM can force Drone scans or an M1, which guarantees her to get Haste (and Hindered) value or a free hit. That's how I see the difference between those. One requires the opponent to fail, and the other can be forced upon the opponent. That's why I likened it to old MfT, where it was guaranteed on injury, aka forced upon the opponent just like drone scans.
As I've said for SM, other than the scan lines they are actually nerfing the things that isn't liked about her current iteration. Although I can understand not liking the wait for a rework that will likely fail like the last 9/10 reworks they've done (SM, SM, Onryo, Onryo, Freddy, Twins, with Billy probably being the only good rework). She currently is such a terror though because too many people are hard DCing against her because the DC penalty is actually preferable to playing out that match.
you see I wanna make it clear that the main issue is that these are holdover nerfs, unlike with most killers we have a confirmation that skull merchant is going to get reworked, unfortunately that’s one to two years from now, make no mistake this is a gutting. They want to render skull merchant to an unplayable state so people will stop complaining and focus on a rework (that’s likely gonna fail AGAIN)
The only people who will continue to play skull merchant are likely people who will try to get a rise, or make others miserable, this change fails at doing anything healthy -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800199#Comment_3800199
Bringing the radar up to 4.6 from 4.4 to remove the self-slowdown would help in that regard. That way in a sense she partially is getting that 5% haste back in another form. I'm not even against her having stealth, its just everyone with basekit stealth has sound cues other than her, and that is a horrible design flaw. If she had a sound cue, her stealth would be fine.
she doesn’t lose speed using the radar?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800190#Comment_3800190
I mean her entire kit is cobbled together with scraps and duct-tape. That's kinda why we are where we are now. If they actually had a good idea for the Killer beyond 'area lockdown' from the onset, she never would have been a problem. They have scrambled to make her a stealth Killer and a loop denial Killer and a Chase Killer all while keeping the area lockdown aspect, and she just needs 1 focused vision.
The problem is also since she was drawn and quartered in 4 different directions, that you get fans of her right leg, pulling against the fans of her left arm, pulling against fans of her left leg, pulling against fans of her right arm, all cheered on by people who just want her dead, leaving her a mangled mess of poor design. There is no making her whole, since too many people want different things out of her.
you know what she could really use? Focus, she does way too many things and it’s overwhelming for survivors, take out the stealth, take out the haste, and focus on the Claw traps and the hindered, focus on rewarding good placement, and good timing when switching, focus on what makes her good, and clean up the clunkiness.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800182#Comment_3800182
Lets say power scales from 'why does this even exist' - dogwater - bad - mediocre at best - weak - neutral - strong - nutty - crazy powerful - ultra strong - uber powerful - broken OP. If you are saying it got a slap on the wrist, that tells me it only dropped 1-2 steps. so if its was either uber powerful or broken OP, it only got dropped to ultra strong. I just find it absurd that it would be anywhere above neutral, so 'slap on the wrist' is your phrasing that led me to even go down this route.
Again the only 'harsh nerf' for SM IMO is the double scan line to 1. All others are bringing a multi-effect Killer below the more single-track Killer's effectiveness.
I think the main issue is miscommunication and I think that stems from the tunneling and skill issue accusations, I got angry when typing that cause even though it’s not true, being seen as a tunneler is an insult
Though we are made up of experiences and thought, we are only other people’s perceptions and all that.
the comparison I was trying to make with MTF and Skull merchant was about their changes. If you think about it they are actually really similar, both require little to no skill, and you get massive value out of it.
For MTF’s case they were changed, however they were given the compensation of being able to activate while exhausted, which before they couldn’t. This allowed true MTF heads (if you have a better name for that please let me know, I genuinely have fallen in love with DH + MFT in recent weeks) to still use a version of MTF, which requires a lot of set up. The point I’m making is, despite how Uber powerful it was, it was given a generous rework.
“Slap on the wrist” was a bad way of wording it, I’m sorry to provoke you
For Skull merchant, it was straight up nerfs, it doesn’t feel well thought out as it doesn’t touch any of her problematic aspects, it was just straight up nerfs, she got Freddied which is why I feel angry, they did promise a rework, but leaving her in an unplayable state for atleast 1-2 years feels very weird…
Again I’m sorry I provoked with my poor wording, I don’t think current MTF is meta, but it is VERY fun to use. -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800178#Comment_3800178
I mean any Killer with on demand stealth doesn't need a chase feature as well. Stealth (when used correctly) is an alternative to chase, that changes the formula from 'how much time did this save in chase vs powerless M1 chase' to 'how much time spent taking an alternative path was lost to guarantee a hit'. Many times as Ghosty, I spend ~8s extra for a stealthier route, and it saved me my ~20s for a normal chase hit. That's a 60% efficiency increase of lethality, from proper use of stealth. Heck, even if I'm bad and it only has a 50% chance of success, it still works out over time. I spend 20+8 on failed stealth 1, and +8 on successful stealth 2, for 36s vs 40s of 2 normal 20s chases.
if I can be completely honest, as much as I like skull merchant, she could do without the stealth, it’s absolutely not needed, and it’s only there cause the original, the WAY original part of her kit included stealth (for some reason) same as the haste, there is no reason skull merchant needs the stealth, it’s clunky and unnecessary, and it conflicts with a perk that genuinely makes her pretty good.
They need to scrap the haste and undetectable, it doesn’t work, it just doesn’t fit her kit at all. -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800135#Comment_3800135
To be fair, I think most people joke about the stereotypes more than truly think they comform to them. At the same time, because of the stereotype, it makes the instances of them leaning in or doing the polar opposite more memorable. So if Dwight is a giga-juicer, you are going to remember that one Dwight, or if you run into a 5 gen turbo-tunneling Blight, you are going to go "just another normal Blight main".
In my last 2 SM games (because those are the only 2 matches I've had against her in recent memory), they intentionally bledout for the 4K. They didn't bother to actually chase, or simply hook. They set up a drone-zone, and never leave it, then proceed to bleedout Surv 3 to kill Surv 4. This is kind of what they call "earning the hate". How even if the stereotype didn't exist, they would have created that stereotype on their own, from the actions within their matches.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800143#Comment_3800143
Yeah the haste was kind of unique, but I think it was a relic of previous design iterations. I think it was fine when disarming permanently reduced the total trap number, as long as it was on the Survivor's shoulder. The only problem with that design, was that Survivors needed to be able to hack unlimited traps, even if they have a tracker already on their shoulder. They could tie the Haste to the total shouldered trap count, and SM couldn't replace the traps freely since 3-5 could be on a single Survivor (back at that version of her).
At the same time, every Killer has Haste in the form of Bloodlust, so it isn't really that special IMO.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800157#Comment_3800157
I mean if you still think MfT is powerful, that is the greatest self-report to you being a turbo-tunneler, that I never thought I could even intentionally bait that out. To be clear, it wasn't intentional, just a happy coincidence.
SM was overtuned in 4 categories, while having more equivalent kit features than the comparable pieces. Stealth with no sound cues to beat out 5+ stealth Killers, traps auto-reseting which isn't even available for Hag, and an Iri add-on for Trapper, Hindered for a total of 60% compared to Freddy and Clowns ~45%, and Haste ranging from 3-7% (fairly easily obtained) compared to MfT's 3% with much more stringent conditions now. She didn't need a compensatory buff, when she had 4 better versions of sources' main feature.
I never said MTF is still powerful, I’m just saying it was Uber powerful, and the change was a slap on the wrist and not an absolute blood bath gutting, I actively run MFT + DH (TBH, I only do cause I physically forced myself not to use cause I didn’t want to be seen as toxic, and I wanna see what I missed out) I am just saying, considering how strong it was, it was given a very generous nerf sadly I never see it anymore when I play killer. It wasn’t completely gutted, if you wanted to use old MFT you would have to dedicate a build around it.
I never said current MFT is even powerful or broken, I was bringing it up to show a semi recent example of a completely busted perk getting a proper rework instead of an absolute gutting with no upsides. Don’t try to turn my words into something the ad hominem me, I don’t like tunneling, it’s a boring playstyle for both sides.
That aside she considering how harsh her nerfs are, I feel a compensation is needed, at the very least some small quality of life changes. -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800133#Comment_3800133
My understanding of Bloodlust is that it only would drop if you throw out a new Drone. If they get scanned from an already existing Drone, it wouldn't drop, say an existing Bloodlust 2. I don't have SM gameplay recorded from the Killer end, so I can't double check (and bots don't help test such a specific circumstance as this); but I'm pretty sure you can still accrue Bloodlust no problem while also benefiting from Hindered.
you see, normally that wouldn’t be a problem since with 2 scan lines it’s impossible to dodge (which is problematic) I actually like the single scan line because it forces skull merchant players to use… actual skill, not as much as huntress, or spirit, but actual skill in terms of timing and placement of the drone, and timing when it comes to switching directions, it requires actual zoning skills and line ups rather than the spit out the drone playstyle. Removing a scan line actually a REALLY good change, however, due to the single scan line, dodging it is really easy, and every time you switch you reset bloodlust (last I tested, it’s been awhile since I played SM tbh)
This brings me to my issue, she is still absolutely a noob stomper still, they didn’t fix any of the issues that made her toxic, they just made her chase weaker. -
@mizark3 said:
Destroy the game by leaving SM as is, or butcher her (temporarily) and make the game playable for everyone else. Wow, tough choice /s.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800095#Comment_3800095
Since they have kind of proven that they only make things worse when they try to rework Killers, it is far better for the health of the game to remove the problematic elements. We don't have old MfT, and I had no problem going against that as Killer (partially because SB was my personal bane). We removed MfT since too many Killers had a problem going against it, just as most Survivors have a problem going against SM. If you want to reinstate MfT and keep SM, I'd join you in a burn the game to the ground kind of way, but in the meantime, maybe we should put out fires instead of starting more.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800098#Comment_3800098
Sadly they will only allocate resources where money is. Survivors quitting the game due to a poorly designed Killer means less money coming in. Reworking an older Killer doesn't always work (see Twins), and you don't get the revenue for another sale since the playerbase already owns them. This is the most cost effective option (sadly), thus nerf SM.
on the topic of MFT, considering how absolutely powerful it was, it got an absolute slap on the wrist, it works on DH builds, and niche endurance builds, it just isn’t as game breaking as it was.
Skull merchant was given absolutely nothing to compensate her nerfs, no QoL, no minor buffs to other parts, just a flat out nerf, which is absolutely rare for BHVR, especially for a mid tier killer.(To be fair, they pulled this exact same thing with trickster, RIP buddy)
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800124#Comment_3800124
The problem with her Hindered is that it currently provides 60% total, compared to Clown/Freddy's ~45%. They could either halve the strength or duration of the Hindered, and they chose the strength. I would accept the duration instead of stregth, but both provide the same total value over time.
I play mostly Ghostface, but also Trapper/Clown/Legion/Dredge/Myers/Singularity are among my most common. These 'unsuably bad' Killers aren't remotely that bad, and SM would still be better (than them) even with the 4 categories of nerfs she honestly needs. I can still get 74% winrate before the gens pop, not even counting endgame wins. I actually really wanted to add her to my repertoire, but I also don't play Spirit or Nurse because I hate annoying people to that extreme. Hopefully she becomes not annoying to go against, then I can enjoy her on both sides, instead of not at all.
see the problem with 5% Hindered is that it comes at the cost of bloodlust, and the thing is, the killer have 5% speed is WAY better than the survivor having 5% hindered, the slow she applies is way too weak to warrant using her power.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800114#Comment_3800114
Like I said, they are fixing 2/4 of her issues. Now she just needs sound cues in stealth, and Drones to require a manual reset.
If they kept her in as is, I'd want a total refund of all the money I've spent on the game, and this 'hostile balancing' is much less detrimental than the alternative.
I actually put in a support ticket for a Meg skin refund way way way back when they changed her character model, and they said (basically) since it was a live game, they can do WHATEVER they want, and we just have to deal with it, too bad so sad.
My honest advice is quit spending money/time before things get worse, because in my time with the game, it (net) largely has.
fixing an issue would require her to be in an atleast usable state, not one where her kneecaps are broken, and using her power makes her actively weaker in chase. Keeping the hindered at 10%, adding sound cues to when she places a drone, KILLING THE HASTE, allowing survivors to remove scans via hacking and a making it a single scan line and there you go, a C tier killer, no need for a rework, but this isn’t health design, she was an unhealthy killer but doing this feels like a slap in the face for anyone who invested any amount of blood points into her, I want my blood points back, if they plan to leave her in a near unusable state, while keeping everything that made her toxic was the worst case scenario.
Also, I am sorry about your meg, you deserve a refund. -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798661#Comment_3798661
I mean just like Twins, they can't fix bad design. The parts of the bad design that are fixable have (partially) been addressed. The only exception IMO is the single drone scan line. I don't think that is the right move, and I would welcome the double scan back if all the other problems are addressed. As a temp nerf though, I think its fine (as long as it remains temporary).
I think the problematic lockdown is accommodated by the auto-reset. If they add manual resets, then I think that is a two-birds one-stone fix. The problem is too many Killers aren't fun at all for Survivors. I just can't be bothered if a Killer that isn't fun for Survivors isn't fun for the Killer at the same time.
As far as 'every SM is doing this to ruin people's lives', it is hyperbole, sure, but rooted in truth. I don't play Nurse (barring tomes/dailies), because I know how unenjoyable it is to go against her. If I know how much of a bad time I am subjecting others to, and make that conscious decision to still go through with it, then it has to be intentional. The problem is most SM's I go against 'earn the hate' because they bleedout for the 4K. Its hard to think someone isn't going in to be a jerk, when everyone else putting on that same pair of pants acts the same negative way.
while it is bad design, what I’m talking about right now is there very poor mishandling of balance, rather than fix any of her issues, they decided to gut her in the hopes people would stop playing her, and focus on a rework in 1-2 years. It’s awful and hostile balancing, and I want a refund on my blood points
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@Yggleif said:
Idk what twitch chat this is from but this was posted on Reddit today so the dumpstering of Skull Merchant seems to be intentional.
Again, this is really #########, like unbelievably ######### and for a moment I would like anyone reading this to disregard the fact that it is skull merchant and understand this
You invest a lot of blood points into a character, a lot of time invested to level her up, and the developers of the game gut her, absolutely kill her with no sense of balance and rather break her legs. Don’t worry! They will rework her, they said so!in 1-2 years, teehee,
Im also not gonna pretend that the developers are going to see the significantly reduced kill rates and completely throw away the rework, they have done it before with legion twice so my hopes are absolutely abysmally low
At this rate, the more I learn, the more I just want her kill switched and refunded my auric cells and blood points, im already picking up a new main (Doctor is fun ngl) I would like a refund for all my wasted blood points at the very least! -
@ARTRA said:
If they rework her fast enought, its bad but okish (i dont think killing a character is the way to go).
But bhvr needs like a generation to rework stuff, may be devs children will finish SM, Freddy and Mayers.
yeah but, it’s BHVR… it’s been 4 years since any Freddy tweaks, almost 7 years since myers, and also like 3 years for twins (I’m not familiar so the year could be wrong)
It’s fine that it’s confirmed that skull merchant is getting a change, but it will not be soon at all, so to gut skull merchant, and to say “we’ll fix her don’t worry just wait a year or two and we will fix her” just seems kinda stupid
BTW her FIRST AND SECOND rework were supposed to fix these issues. -
@radiantHero23 said:
There has been a lot of mixed feelings about the recently published patch notes for the upcoming ptb. The loudest feedback came from the Skull merchant changes, which are undeniably nerfs.
A lot of people rejoiced about the changes due to the killer still being majorly unfavoured by the community. (Which might be linked to bias from her 3gen days, but i digress)
Other people have pointed out, that gutting her is just going to make her vanish from matches and would result in a Freddy - like situation, where nobody wants to play them and nobody wants to play against them. This being bad practice towards the playerbase of the character if no changes happen over a longer period of time.
I personally emphathize with the second group of people, despite not liking the killer very much.
What is important now, I feel like, is an official statement adressing the situation. BHVR should openly state the idea behind the nerfs, which due to the lack of compensation, give the impression to just serve the purpose to send her into the void.
Additionally, and this might be a bit much to ask, there should be a statement about prioritization of balance changes. I greatly applaud BHVR for making changes happen a lot faster over the last few years. However, I feel like this resulted in priorities being presented incomprehensible.
I personally dont get why Plague, a killer that I deem fine with the exception of some overtuned addons, has higher priority than Freddy. Skull merchant should also be very high on the list now as should Myers.
I hope a community manager adresses the situation soon, so that we stop going at each others throats.
What do you guys think?
I’m so sorry if anyone here finds out this way, but it was confirmed by the community manager that these nerfs aren’t accidental or done out of balance.
The community manager made a statement saying the point of these changes are to kill the character until they can push out a rework, which is so abysmally stupid that skull merchant is gonna get Freddied for atleast a year or 2 -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797748#Comment_3797748
Not even a Survivor main, but I can recognize garbage design.
If someone kicked you in the nuts, would you want them to have a good time? Probably not. That's the digital equivalent of what a Skull Merchant pick has been doing to 4 Survivor victims every match. It doesn't matter if it is spite, because it is against someone who was more spiteful to begin with.
SM still has 90% uptime stealth with 0 sound cues, which is still far too powerful. Give her sound cues like every other stealth Killer (Myers/Ghosty/Dredge/Freddy/Onryo/etc.) and she'd be fine here.
Haste was allegedly too powerful for Survivors to have at 3% (although I liked going against it as Ghosty because Sprint Burst was more powerful than MfT against my playstyle), yet she got that and even more. Deleting Haste or reverting MfT would be fine here, although I'm sure most Killers don't want MfT back (again, I liked it as a Killer, because SB was my counter, and this made less people bring SB).
Her 10% Hindered lasts 6s without add-ons (for 60% total), yet Clown's 15% lasts Cloud+2s (for roughly 3s or 45%), and Freddy's 15% lasts similar duration (3s for 45%). 5% for 6s keeps it at 30% total, which is good here given that she has multiple facets to her power that Clown and Freddy can't claim nearly the same level of.
Her traps reset themselves, which can't happen for Hag, and can only happen with an Iridescent add-on for Trapper. Don't auto-reset traps, force a physical reset, then she'd be fine here.
So to recap, she has better stealth than Myers and Ghostface, better Hindered than Clown and Freddy, Haste in excess of MfT, an Iridescent add-on basekitted, and that still isn't even including her bugged add-on(s?) causing triple scans without a delay (when there is supposed to be a 3s delay between each scan). So even if we were to pretend spite wasn't in the equation, she was deserving nerfs in all of these categories for being better at all comparable powers/perks AND stacking all of them. The funny thing is, the Haste and Hindered facets are actually the correct decision to be made here. She still needs sound cues in stealth, and her traps to not auto-reset (without an add-on), then she would actually be fine (if they also fixed the bugged add-on triple stacking on 1 scan).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798182#Comment_3798182
If we were to accept this delusional statement, then that would simply mean killrates must be at 65%-75% and needing to be dropped is all.
Then again we are getting massive nerfs to Distortion, massive buffs to Zenshin and Deathbound and Crowd Control, so this statement clearly wasn't based in reality. Pyramid Head and Artist will probably run Zenshin every match, and Deathbound was good before, and now its going to be great. I guess 4-slowdown Killers didn't get anything, but that's fine, since they got Pop/PR/Deadlock/Grim all nerfed for the rest of us. So I'd be glad if 4-slowdown Killers never get catered to again if they get my PR nerfed anymore.
I never said SM didn't need changes, in fact I have been very vocal that Skull Merchant needed changes, but this is the wrong way to go about it. She was absolutely problematic, I don't think a single DBD player thought she should go unchanged, HOWEVER these changes don't even address the (I will admit very good) points you made.
She still have auto resetting traps, she still has the problematic stealth, she still has all her problematic lockdown, and 3 gen features, they just neutered her chasing ability. Taking away the haste was the only positively received change I saw, cause it was the most BS mechanic ANY killer had. The issue is, this won't make Skull merchant more fun to go against, it just makes her less fun to play. Its a lose, lose for both SM players, and survivors.Also, its painting a very broad stroke to imagine every single SM player, plays with the intention of making sure others have a bad time.
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@lollol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797995#Comment_3797995
Bro I'm getting constantly bombarded by casting of frank stone adverts despite me seeing a tick on the checkbox and pressing save and close. Im ready to dunk this game in the trash
look man, this game brings out the worst in people, especially when it comes to nerfs and balance changes. It’s made worse with the fact it’s an asymmetric game, it was designed with a split fanbase. This game is one that’s really good at provoking people to do, or say stupid stuff. The balance in this game isn’t an easy fix, cause realistically it will never be balanced
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@lollol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797978#Comment_3797978
The content creators keep sucking and sucking hard to get their revenue. It's the most pathetic game industry that we live in currently. This is worse than prostitutes.
This game makes like 99% of its profits from cosmetics
there are way more scummier things about this game I feel we collectively ignore, like paying 30$ for a game that then paywalls the rest of the characters is insane for a modern game, no idea how DBD got away from it.
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@DaRule said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797938#Comment_3797938
And that's why I'm saying this is an olive branch. Honestly, it is entirely possible that people will continue to DC against her even after these changes since people still strongly dislike her. I've seen many matches where everyone DCs to force her to play against a full team of bots just to waste her time as punishment for wasting 4 peoples time. And rightfully so.
I mean yeah, they have reworked her so much and yet every time they do it doesn't help. I feel like im going through the 5 stages of grief in a semi unironic way, I am coming around to accept it, and realize that we might need to test it in the PTB before saying anything concrete.
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@DaRule said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797919#Comment_3797919
Unfortunately no matter what BHVR has done to try to address her issues, players are simply unwilling to accept her in the game and that might be tough for SM mains to hear, but I'm sure you knew the free DC wins were going to dry up eventually.
With how unlikeable she is, you either gut her entirely or you delete her from the game — there is no in-between. Her reputation is permanently tarnished and irreparably damaging to the DBD brand at this point. Luckily there are many other killers for people to learn to main and new ones are continuously made available.
Again, they aren't gonna delete a killer from the game for balance reasons. They need to completely give her a new kit, the premise of using drones to survey the area is interesting, but current reworks have failed to solve her issues.
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@DaRule said:
What outage?
To be honest, Skull Merchant players should be extremely grateful that BHVR offered an olive branch by compromising to keep her in the game in spite of the entire player base asking for her to be deleted entirely.
I'm sure the optics weren't great either for Kris Jenner who seemed to have lent her image for use in the game.
They aren't going to remove a killer, excluding licensing issues, they will never remove a killer. Saying they should be grateful for not getting removed is very callous, and the only one who calls are just Survivor mains (I hate using that term but it is accurate) I play alot of survivor and don't get me wrong, skull merchant is very oppressive to play against, but this guts her power, without addressing her issues which is the worst case solution.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797891#Comment_3797891
The problem with the SM changes are that they don't deal with the things that make players give up. It's the same thing with the Trickster rework. They made him stronger, but kept all the things survivors hated intact. Her spammable zone control is what makes her frustrating to play against. So even though she is weaker, she's still gonna be tedious to go against.
People are right to take issue with the changes. They are not well targeted.
I wish there was a fun way to do counterplay for skully, I think there isn't a single SM player that thought the haste was balanced, but what people are angry about is the hindered.
If they do something cool like, rotating drones resets Scan buffers, than that would solve alot of issues. These changes are just flat out nerfs while not touching anything that made her problematic.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797868#Comment_3797868
Keep an eye on the accounts that have thousands of posts. If they are out in force complaining, something is terribly wrong. If not, then things are mostly fine.
You must be super new to the community. People complain every time changes are prosposed. These complaints are nothing compared to previous updates. This forum is used primarily as a place to vent after losing a match, or going too far with theory crafting based on numbers and speculation. So the place is usually 90% angry complaints and 10% other stuff. This is very normal.
I do think SM will absolutely get post PTB changes, don't get me wrong, I do hope its something that sounds bad on paper, but is really in fact balanced in game, but they haven't done straight up nerfs with no buffs for a really long time. Even with Trickster they gave buffs to many nerfs, but this is just several major nerfs.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797858#Comment_3797858
That's because this is a game where skill expression is extremely low, almost touching the floor. This game is basically a giant knowledge check. There isn't much skill involved in either side doing anything they do, the question is just "do i know more than you" when you are going against someone.
Thus, because mechanical skill is nearly at the floor, it is very easy to know how something will play out in this game just knowing the changes without even testing them.
There are obviously exceptions to this for sure, but this is just a general rule.
id argue killers like spirit, and huntress take skill, along with dead hard, but you do make a good point on skill expression
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/426788/so-much-outrage
Twins release patch is still the worst, because the game was the most broken it has ever been, and they knew it and still released it anyway.
Well To be fair, based on the patch notes, I don't think anyone expected that twins would be that powerful. I mean people expected they would be powerful, but never to the extent that it put nurse in second place.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
They need to address it even before the PTB. They can't let some of these changes go live.
I am mad at the skull merchant changes don't get me wrong, but ive never seen this much mass outrage.
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@FrenchBagels said:
There’s outrage every chapter because people like to nitpick hypotheticals that don’t exist. Remember Blood Rush in PTB? Good times.
I remember bloodrush :(
I think these are bad skull merchant changes, don't get me wrong, but I think an equally as bad crime is what they are doing to blood rush, making it an Anti-Tunnel takes the fun out of it :(
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@GeneralV said:
The most outrage? No. I think 1.9.2 is still the champion.
I read over it, whats the outrage?
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Notice how every single update involving finisher mori is controversial? makes you think /hj
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@Zynched said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797763#Comment_3797763
That's fine. It's skull merchant's kit that makes her so annoying when played by toxic players. She's an M1 killer who was getting free haste, free hindered, and just about every other status effect in a chase. No skill required to get easy downs. Knockout + drones all over the map + everything else about her make it a nightmare trying to pick up slugged survivors as well.
There isn't a single person that thinks skull merchant was fine without changes, even SM mains were begging for skull merchant changes, but this is just way to much, the nerfs are absolutely brutal and they got nothing in return. In almost every single nerf in recent years, it always came accompanied with a buff of some kind, but this is just a straight up nerf of a B tier killer that was annoying to go against, no buffs, just straight up nerfs.
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@FrenchBagels said:
If this was true, they would’ve brought back Overheat Billy, Revert Knight Guard cancelling, and not keep the buffs to Singu, Nemesis, and Huntress. Freddy was nerfed because Forever Freddy was genuinely a problem and people keep forgetting about that. I agree he should’ve had something done to him years ago but they’ve only now started embracing larger scale mid chapters for some reason.
tldr: based sm nerf, Billy will still be a gigachad, and no one on bhvr is intentionally looking at a Killer like Wesker and contemplating 100 ways to gut them
Do you like the SM changes cause you feel its balanced, or is it only out of spite. I can say with absolute confidence that people will 100% still let themselves die on hook, this isn't a fair or balanced change, people are only cheering out of spite.
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@mizark3 said:
Mori - Does Iri still unlock Moris on everyone? What if I Mori the first 3 with Devour Hope and give the last Hatch? Should this just unlock the BP if you Mori anyone, not only the final person? Edit 2: How about Yellow Mori give 100% BP if you Mori, Green Mori giving 100% BP per Mori (needs build around Moris to get more than 2), and Iri giving 100% per Mori (doesn't need the build since it unlocks death hook Moris).
Corrective Action -Make this not stack. If 2 people run HyperFocus+CorrectiveAction, they both just don't attempt skillchecks and get Greats all day stacking up HyperFocus.
Blood Rush - Do you have to still be healthy to use this? Is it just meant to be a 2nd Exhaustion perk if tunneled? If it works while injured, good change. If you need to be healthy, it is unusably bad.
Quick Gambit - Might be too powerful. Maybe add a downside that T1 Bloodlust accrues on you 5s faster (15→10s)? That would naturally counteract it.
Lucky Star -Why also get rid of the auras? Just keep the Auras.
Leverage - What about Killers turbo-tunneling? This would just empower them further. Not sure what I'd do with this, but this ain't it chief.
Machine Learning - Maybe drop timer to 45s pre-emptively? This might be crazy powerful, but it also might be garbage map dependent.
Deathbound - I LOVE MY DEATHBOUND AND NOW I LOVE IT MORE!
Blood Echo - Does this set to 30s, or add 30s. I would like it if it adds 30s, not a big fan if this sets to 30s. Often times you currently run this with Mindbreaker to lock in a 60s exhaustion timer, so the CD doesn't really matter.
Hex: Crowd Control - Nice scary effect.
SM - This is the best alternative to actually deleting her (can we still have that option on the table though?)
Edit: Minor spelling mistakes
Edit 2: More thoughts on Mori.
The Large reaction of survivor mains still whining even after these nerfs are insane, it proves that it never really was about making SM balanced, or adding more counterplay, it was just to gut a killer. They could have introduced changes that solved ALL of skull merchants issues, and people would still reject it. These reactions to these changes aren't out of a longing for balance, they are out of spite.
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@TieBreaker said:
This rework doesn't seem to be great. It's less a rework and more just a nerf. They changed the hindered and haste numbers, which were kind of nuts, so that's good. But I feel like the biggest problem with her drones is how spammable they are. If that wasn't an issue, I feel like people would find her less obnoxious to go against.
this isn’t supposed to be a rework, it’s tweaks leading up to a rework, but here is my prediction to what’s gonna happen
Nerfs hit skull merchant, kill rates plummet, they see this as an acceptable balance change
It happened with legion, I can almost guarantee it’s gonna happen with skull merchant -
Any justification for the hindered change in skull merchant? While she obviously needed a nerf, or some kinda rebalance, the hindered is worse than bloodlust, what would be the point of using the drones, when not using them is better?