Firellius
Firellius
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@ShinobuSK said:
Not really since its not that common as some people try to make it be.
But if I get camping killer several games in a row, I can understand the frustration.
Luckily most red rank killers either camp very late game/during EGC or are not camping at all
It's still a general problem, even if it's uncommon, because it causes a balancing lock-out.
As much as the killer experience could be improved by gen speed slowdowns, we can't afford to extend the general match duration since that'd buff camping directly.
I genuinely think that camping is the biggest issue this game has, due to that kind of collateral damage.
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@TheDappaScrappa said:
The facts still stands
1) NOED 100% counterable by doing bones. You see one, cleanse it. If every survivor does it boom noed is gone, and if you don't trust your randoms, small game/detective's hunch/map mutiple ways to spot them yourselves.
2)Noed isn't a free win or a free kill if you take the time do bones and even if you cleansed all the bones and noed wasn't a perk they had, congrats you got some extra BP
3)Noed exist and is "bad design" because of the killers who do not have to ability to patrol 7 gens while pressuring 4 survivors at once. Killers who cannot run across the map or teleport to a spot at will are at a huge disadvantage to do their job as a killer. NOED isn't a bad design and it isn't broken or OP its just a lame perk to go against but completely understandable as to why some killers use/need it.
4)Most survivor mains want to throw around stuff like "a killer can't always expect to get a 4k or always expect to win" well guess what survivors neither do we. You lose because you didn't cleanse a totem so noed popped? Oh well suck it up and start the next match. You win some you lose some.
You can hate going against noed and find it annoying. Nobody is saying you need to like the perk but its not strong its not OP, its extremely useless throughout the ENTIRE game and even in the end game if you just cleanse a totem. I mean to be fair a killer can have you on hook, dying, last gen pops and somebody unhooks you and your adrenaline pops. You are fully healed. You want to say noed doesn't have a counter whats the counter for adrenaline? Just curious what makes adrenaline fine when there is NOTHING a killer can do to stop that, but NOED is sooooo bad even though you can stop it? Whats the difference here?
Noed exist and is "bad design" because of the killers who do not have to ability to patrol 7 gens while pressuring 4 survivors at once.
That's like fixing a leaky water tank by cutting the hole out.
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2393139#Comment_2393139
Exactly...wait until more killers quit because of this abuse. There are times there is no pallet drop until my blade hits them and there is blood and a scream but no it somehow got cancelled because a pallet drop happened at the same time.
Pallet camping before would mean a trade of a hit and stun not this pallet vacuum bs.
All of you survivors that think this is fair, play some games as killer and witness it first hand.
It's nothing to do with pallet camping. -Any- pallet stun before this change had an about 80% chance to cost the survivor a health state and about half their speed boost. It was better to just ignore the pallet and take the hit, since you'd get more distance that way.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
If a killer is god awful at practically everything (applying pressure, chasing, defending gens, etc.) there is a 90% chance they use noed, which is why I go totem hunting when I see a killer like that. You just immediately know they require instadowns and haste to accomplish anything
Edit: very rarely you run into a memeing killer with a full endgame build, which is an entirely different story
That is basically the best way to check for NOED. If a killer sucks, they will use NOED.
Also Clowns use NOED extremely often for some reason.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2390286#Comment_2390286
Not my fault you don't understand what I'm saying. My problem was never about him sucking. That's the least of my problems. Would I want him too be strong? Of course. But that's not what I'm talking about. My problem is the accuracy to the RE3R with his power. He doesn't feel like Nemesis. Oni is Nemesis.
Okay but what did you have in mind for Nemesis' power? What would qualify as 'Nemesis', for you?
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@Huge_Bush said:
No point in complaint about keys since the Devs have repeatedly said they’re reworking them. In the meantime run Franklins every time you see one and make sure you tunneler and camp the key holder. They wanted an easy escape and to bypass game mechanics, you do the same and take the easy route.
This made me realise that Franklin's Demise is basically in the same position as BT, DS, UB and DetHunch/Small Game. It's a counter-perk for incidental encounters with poorly designed mechanisms.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2389129#Comment_2389129
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2389136#Comment_2389136
It's funny how it's perfectly acceptable to be stunned from several metres away.
There's no reward, nothing to make the game easier. We're not talking 200 ping here, we're talking 50-60. We're talking the kind of hits that would look perfectly legitimate on both sides if it was a livestreamed tournament that suddenly can't land because the server registered the stun before the hit by a microsecond.
The situations you're describing are why I never, ever, tried to get pallet stuns. Without exception, I'd get hit through them anyway, causing me to lose a chunk of the speed boost.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2388907#Comment_2388907
The difference being that it's significantly more impactful for a killer to be robbed like this than a survivor.
Thing is, you aren't robbed. You didn't actually get that hit in anyway, since the survivor dropped a pallet on your head before you were able to get the hit in.
Latency just doesn't give you a free shot anymore.
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It's a functional survivor perk, so yeah, people will complain. But these complaints are really just going down the list of perks and tackling every survivor perk that gets any value at all.
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What I ask of you all is that you try to upvote this post as much as you can to catch the attention of multiple developers, if not also content creators, or even spread this around. You may not need to agree with what I am about to say, or explain, but let there be awareness to this post. There will be a post in the future that I will be making that will be even more important than this, but without your help, the developers will not listen.
This would require, first and foremost, that you present an idea worthy of consideration.
The amount of Perks that are available to Survivor are reduced to 3.
...
I'm out.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2385178#Comment_2385178
1vs4 buffs do not really exist with killers though. 1vs4 is like freddy old swing chain add-on, it means you get stronger, the more survivors are alive which is kinda what thanatophobia and no... mobility is not 4vs1 potential, spirit & blight have mobility with phase walk/rush but its still 1vs1 centered.
Conclusively speaking, every killer is 1vs1 oriented and trickster 1vs1 is depends on tricksters aim and survivors movement in combination with blocking LOS so he has less chances to throw. He can be looped/1vs1 and was never like old legion.
Nemesis' zombies are a 1v4 'buff'. They don't help in chase, but they can passively threaten gens and provide intel.
Not that that is thematically applicable for Trickster, though. Unless he were to get deranged groupies...
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2385285#Comment_2385285
Show me one post of this that was made since the last few months
I think I saw one crop up on twitter a short while ago.
And while it's not the same argument, there was a recent thread about DS having to be disabled during EGC.
And I think one of the people I was arguing with on another thread was complaining about 'second chance perks', too.
Seriously, DS is still being targeted for nerfs by plenty of people.
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I've really come to like Nemesis. Neat mix of anti-loop and intel wrapped into one package, feels pretty satisfying to play.
For survivors, I favor the man-candy options: David, Felix and Chris. I wish Felix had gotten a beachwear skin so we can get a peek at what's underneath the suit!
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2385262#Comment_2385262
I'm assuming from people who want the change reverted. Like "You're telling me you did not revert the change on DS so I can exploit it again? Oh my actual god I can't believe the devs aren't letting me sit on gens with my minute of defense anymore."
You're more likely to see threads with 'DS is in every game, nerf it'.
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The basement itself is already enough of a problem, so it's good that this perk is useless. It could do with a rework to divorce it from the basement. (And then remove basement since it's purely there to support camping and tunnelling)
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Self-care - Desperate Measures - Botany - Bite the Bullet
I call it my 'field medic Jake' build. You heal yourself almost as fast as others can heal you, and you heal others extremely quickly. Very satisfying to run.
Plunderer's Instinct - Appraisal - Streetwise - Ace in the Hole
Scavenger David (Or Hobo David as my friends have taken to calling it, as I exclusively play David without a shirt) pulls high rarity garbage out of chests. This one is extremely unlikely to win since you'll never get something worth the time you wasted going for a chest, but you have a better chance of getting a key, which can be nice. And showering your teammates with medkits can't hurt either.
For the People - Inner Strength - Resilience - This is not Happening
My main build is quite similar to this, only with DetHunch and Fixated, but it struck me that the whole 'Resilience/TINH + No Mither' thing could actually be put into a format that doesn't make all your teammates disconnect on the spot by using For the People. Just steal someone else's injury and use it to bumrush a gen.
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@Inferno427 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2382228#Comment_2382228
That isn't what you said tho, what you said was implying I just didn't like unbreakable and anti-slugging perks when the opposite is that I want better equalisation of their strength.
I don't think unbreakable is overpowered. I think unbreakable is a decent perk with 2 very good strengths to it. It's why I said it should be split into 2 perks.
Buffing the other perks would be a good move but buffing them all to being unbreakable's strength could be potentially overpowered, particularly when combined. I think unbreakable should be nerfed because I want the power ceiling to be lowered, so the floor can be raised without worrying about the resulting combination having unintended consequences.
Just buffing those perks without taking into consideration the resultant combination of them is terrible balancing.
That isn't what you said tho, what you said was implying I just didn't like unbreakable and anti-slugging perks when the opposite is that I want better equalisation of their strength.
That's not even close to what I was implying.
I was implying you want to nerf Unbreakable because it's better than the other three anti-slugging perks. And I am implying that because it is literally what you are saying.
I don't think unbreakable is overpowered. I think unbreakable is a decent perk with 2 very good strengths to it. It's why I said it should be split into 2 perks.
That is, and this is going to be a pretty big understatement, a gargantuan nerf to the perk.
And as explained, Unbreakable, by itself, -really- doesn't deserve it. If you nerf Unbreakable, all you achieve is that all the anti-slugging perks will simply phase out of the game entirely. Maybe, once in a blue moon, someone will run the Flip-flop-struggle combo and probably get slaughtered without ever triggering it, but overall, people will be forced to switch to something else. UB is worth the one perk slot, but it's most definitely NOT worth two.
I want the power ceiling to be lowered
That's not lowering it, that's collapsing it, because any real nerf to UB would just dump it outside viability.
so the floor can be raised without worrying about the resulting combination having unintended consequences.
Nerfing UB doesn't create any space for the other perks to be buffed that isn't already here now. Nor is it impossible to buff those perks without causing conflicts or overpowered combos.
One thing, for example, is tacking Flip-Flop onto Power Struggle innately, so it only costs one perk slot instead of two to have the slightest possible chance of functioning.
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@Inferno427 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2382142#Comment_2382142
That's completely not what I was talking about, but ok.
That -is- what you're talking about when you're suggesting it should be nerfed, though.
You can't make an argument for something to be nerfed by comparing it to another of the same type of item. You have to look at the overall performance of the thing you're arguing about.
Yes, Unbreakable blows Tenacity, Flip Flop and Soul Guard out of the water. But that isn't an Unbreakable problem. That's a problem with those three perks being (With a mild exception of Soul Guard) absolutely useless. Flip Flop basically ceases to exist outside of a Flip-Flop Power Struggle build, which is situational as all heck and generally quite pointless, and Tenacity is only there to support Unbreakable. Soul Guard can compete with it but has a terrible activation condition where you need to hope your team doesn't do what they logically will.
Unbreakable isn't overpowered. It's just a decent perk, nestled in a bed of abject garbage. Nerfing UB down is the opposite of good balancing, since good balancing would be buffing the other picks.
This is a problem with survivor perks in general, there's a couple of good ones, and then a ton of absolute trash.
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@TheDappaScrappa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2378051#Comment_2378051
Your whole argument of noed being too strong because of having to "waste time doing and looking for totems and realizing the killer doesn't have noed" can be argued about the 3 overly used survivor perks that are powerful for just existing. A killer waiting a few more seconds before hitting a survivor because he "might" have dead hard adds up, a killer having to ignore a survivor for 60 seconds because he MIGHT have d.strike adds up, a killer waiting 12 seconds to hit a survivor who was unhooked right in front of him because he MIGHT have borrowed time, adds up. You are aware killers can have their time "wasted" do to survivor perks that don't even need to be used in order to be effective right? And yes this is coming from a survivor main who understands the power each side has because i play both sides and not only complaining about "my side" killers and survivors both have perks that can waste the others time without even needed to be equipted. The treat of the perk alone works for both.
And yes face camping is a problem not nerfing noed is not going to solve that in anyway and face camping is far from the biggest problem this game has with all the balance issues bugs, glitches, face camping is an annoyance that some killers use cuz they wont get a kill any other way. I have no idea why you think changing a useless perk like noed is going to prevent camping. Camping and tunneling will always be a thing hence some perks using to counter that oh but wait for your logic i forgot Borrowed Time or D. Strike doesn't counter tunneling because "having to use a perk to turnnel a perk isn't a counter"
Your whole argument of noed being too strong
Not my argument. My argument is that NOED is trash design.
can be argued about the 3 overly used survivor perks that are powerful for just existing.
Are they though? Are they really?
I don't camp, tunnel or slug, and despite most survivors bringing at least 2 of those 3 perks, I've been DS'd only two or three times, and the only time I hit a BT is if the unhooked survivor is bodyblocking me.
a killer having to ignore a survivor for 60 seconds because he MIGHT have d.strike adds up, a killer waiting 12 seconds to hit a survivor who was unhooked right in front of him because he MIGHT have borrowed time
That's why you don't go for the unhooked survivor but instead go for literally any of the other three targets. Seriously, don't tunnel, don't camp, and you won't have any issue with these perks, unless someone is trying to bait you into a decisive strike, in which case you can just leave them slugged for half a minute to waste more of their time than yours.
These perks are fulfilling their intended goals. Not effectively by any stretch of the imagination, but they ARE a deterrent to camping and tunnelling. If you consider these perks to be problematic, very effective, or passively effective in the way that NOED is, YOU are the problem. YOU are trying to camp and tunnel.
And yes face camping is a problem not nerfing noed is not going to solve that in anyway and face camping is far from the biggest problem this game has with all the balance issues bugs, glitches, face camping is an annoyance that some killers use cuz they wont get a kill any other way.
Facecamping absolutely is the game's biggest problem, because the balance issues you mention are locked in place due to the existence of facecamping. Gens go too fast? Well too bad, we can't slow them down, because that would be a buff to facecamping. Killer buffs? Buffs to facecamping you mean.
Even Lethal Pursuer, which is an overall fantastic perk that feels VERY rewarding to use as a killer, becomes a problem due to facecamping.
It's just tangled up with every problem the game has.
I have no idea why you think changing a useless perk like noed is going to prevent camping.
It's not, and I never said it would. But at the very least, NOED is a problem for supporting facecamping in much the same way Lethal Pursuer does. And due to this interaction between NOED and facecamping, the killer can literally disable NOED's counterplay by just sitting on hook, because then he either gets free kills from camping or he gets free kills from NOED.
Yes, it's a problem with facecamping. But it's also a problem with NOED's trash-tacular design.
Camping and tunneling will always be a thing hence some perks using to counter that oh but wait for your logic i forgot Borrowed Time or D. Strike doesn't counter tunneling because "having to use a perk to turnnel a perk isn't a counter"
I'm not going to explain again why 'doing bones' is not a counter to NOED, only for you to apparently conflate two entirely different arguments and spin them into yet another thing I never said.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2377560#Comment_2377560
Tell that to the archive challenges that state all 4 survivors must die
The problem here is 'archive challenge'. Much like killers have really dumb challenges that are way too hard to accomplish, there's survivor challenges that translate to 'soft-throw the game'.
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Sadly, the entire discussion is moot as long as camping is a thing, since any slowdown will just make camping a stable way to win.
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I use Eruption + Surge, myself. If I catch that survivor, it's -14% immediately, plus collateral.
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@TheDappaScrappa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2375907#Comment_2375907
Small Game, Detectives Hunch, Maps, Counterforce all can be used to COUNTER yes counter NOED. If the perk doesn't pop or get used because survivors cleansed the totems in order to prevent it from being used, that is countering it oh "but go off"
Doing bones doesn't do anything if noed isn't there or it takes too much time if noed is there. Just like the rest of your post, an excuse. No matter how annoying noed is, its not even a good perk to run since most survivors with 40% brain function can find a totem and cleanse it on their way to a gen.
"Because your teammates carried your behind and the killers you've gone up against don't equip NOED"
Oh yeah my teammates carried me in every game and no killer I go against don't equipped noed"
What a lovely and yet extremely far assumption of a statement. Plenty of killers I go against run noed and nobody carried anybody, I guess I just had teammates smart enough to do totems and do gens. Don't blame a killer for using a perk that this game legit holds your hand to get rid of but you need to be cradled to have everything nerfed to hold your hand because you cannot "COUNTER" and easy perk to counter and instead of having a lack of skills or brains you need them to nerf it. Noed is annoying its not strong, its not op, and legit just punishes gen rushing and people who just decide to walk past an obvious totem because "oh its not worth my time"
Small Game, Detectives Hunch, Maps, Counterforce all can be used to COUNTER yes counter NOED. If the perk doesn't pop or get used because survivors cleansed the totems in order to prevent it from being used, that is countering it oh "but go off"
Yeah, and not ever touching a gen is technically a counter to Ruin.
You can't just say 'this makes the perk lose value', you have to look at the applicability of the counter. That's the problem with NOED: It's got two counters, one of which works, and the other is 'jUst dO bONes'.
'Doing bones' does not make NOED lose value. Only the fifth totem makes NOED lose value. All the other ones you cleanse don't hinder NOED at all, and in fact might actually help it. You know how people complain about totems being right out in the open and very easy to spot? Yeah, if you cleanse that, you know for sure that NOED is not gonna go there and is instead going for a better spawn.
Doing bones doesn't do anything if noed isn't there or it takes too much time if noed is there. Just like the rest of your post, an excuse. No matter how annoying noed is, its not even a good perk to run since most survivors with 40% brain function can find a totem and cleanse it on their way to a gen.
If they do that, good for the killer. Means they're not actually going for the 5-cleanse and are instead wiping out the weak totem spawns to goad NOED into a godspawn.
On multiple occasions, I worked on a gen right next to a totem and made the conscious decision NOT to destroy the totem, in case there was NOED. And on multiple occasions, I finish the gen and the totem lights up. If I'd only had 40% brain function and cleansed the totem, the team would've had to hunt NOED down instead of cleansing it 14 seconds after the fifth gen pops.
What a lovely and yet extremely far assumption of a statement. Plenty of killers I go against run noed and nobody carried anybody
Oh, sorry, hang on...
its not even a good perk to run since most survivors with 40% brain function can find a totem and cleanse it on their way to a gen.
So if the killers you're going up against DO actually bring NOED fairly consistently, I guess you're in bottom green ranks? Yeah, you don't need your teammates to carry you there, so my assumption was wrong.
Don't blame a killer for using a perk that this game legit holds your hand to get rid of
Did you read literally -anything- I wrote or is this another 'Just accept the perk tax' thing?
you need them to nerf it.
Says who?
I keep saying it needs a rework due to its trash-tier design. As it stands, it doesn't do the alleged job of making totems a secondary objective, for all the reasons I mentioned.
You opened this thread with the title of 'Why is the community so up in arms about NOED'. You're already coming into this with a pretty aggressive opening post demeaning pretty much everyone else, and when I explain why you are wrong, you flip a lid.
This is why NOED gets people up in arms. It is the worst designed perk in the entire game, by a country mile.
No Mither included.
@Sonzaishinai said:
There are only 2 problems with Noed as far as i can see.
1) facecamping
The counter to facecamping is to rush gens, that leaves little time for totem hunting and for the effort it requires is a pretty easy way to guarantee at least a 2k
2) Dull totems are not worth doing outside of noed
Dull totems are just not worth doing just for a chance to maybe counter a potential Noed. Despite what some players think Noed just isn't common enough to always do all totems. Doing them all and seeing the killer didn't have any perk relating to totems just feels like a waste of time.
My prefered change to nerf noed is to buff it. Make it so everytime a survivor cleanses a dull totem they scream, become exposed for 20/25/30 seconds and every survivor gets the hex notification. On top of that only survivors that have been hooked before become exposed when all gens are completed
This will make Noed more usefull throughout the match but more importantly survivors will know it's in play. It no longer is a gamble. And they can't use to make facecamping better
Point 1 here also deserves stressing: On top of NOED being a killer's freebie with an unintuitive counter mechanism, it is a supporting act to facecamping, the biggest problem the game has.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Like holy crap I understand dull totems at least they’ve become harder to see and stuff. But, Hex totems are so loud and they stick out so much on majority of maps. You just need to walk by and hear something. This was just from a gameplay with two Claudettes running full meta and walking by the devour hope twice while active. And I just got moried because of that. They were red ranks
A hex totem has never made a noise for me, and since... I think the Trickster chapter, most of them don't glow anymore for me, either, making the visual difference between a dull and a hex incredibly small.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
They annoyed me enough to level Billy, a killer I will never use, to get lightborn. Rofl.
I think this is where the best balance change can be made to hurt bully squads. Inherent protection against repeated flashlight saves.
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@TheDappaScrappa said:
I really don't get it. Like it's a very annoying perk to have to deal with and I know some feel like it "rewards bad playstyle for killers" and to some extent it does but that isn't always the case.
I will just use Trapper as an example who has to spend a lot of time setting up and collecting traps. Yes I know some players who use Trapper don't need noed to win before anybody says that but others might. I mean some survivors don't need dead hard or unbreakable to win but that doesn't stop them for using it?
Everybody cries to nerf freaking noed but I do not understand why instead of crying nerf what is so hard about just doing totems? And this is coming from a survivor main who hates noed, but still there are plenty of perks and items that help you spot totems to stop noed from even popping. I do not understand why there is so much complaining about a perk that is so easily counterable.
It doesn't need to be nerfed. It really doesn't. How many times do you see a survivor just notice a totem but decide to ignore it and go to a gen. And don't give me the "i don't have time to do gens and totems" excuse. If the killer has enough time to have to actively chase 4 survivors while protecting and kicking gens, you got ten seconds to cleanse a totem.
The only time its a real issue is when the killer is face camping a hook survivor after gens are done but still if you did totems during the game it wouldn't have been an issue. I really do not understand why people complain so hard about this.
Haven't had trouble with NOED for months I wonder why
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PBMDBPQWCGGN/20210721-195544-hdr.jpg
Everybody cries to nerf freaking noed but I do not understand why instead of crying nerf what is so hard about just doing totems?
The problem with 'just doing totems' is that it is not a counter to NOED. Everyone likes to repeat the tired old meme of 'just do bones', but it doesn't actually work that way, since in 90% of cases, doing bones either does nothing or actively makes NOED more impactful.
Doing bones ONLY counters NOED if you manage to get all five totems, or if you manage to cleanse 3 or 4 and you know and can easily access the last one or two totem locations.
Doing bones gets no reward if you cleanse 3 or 4 totems and you don't have the last totem locations. This situation makes NOED stronger if the last totem location is a godspawn that no one can find.
Doing bones makes NOED stronger if you cleanse all 5 totems and the killer doesn't have NOED equipped. It becomes a stronger slow-down perk than things like Dying Light or Thanatophobia, without even requiring a perk slot.
The more you invest in it, the bigger the cost is if you fail to get all five totems against a NOED killer. It's by far the hardest perk in the game to counter due to the sheer investment required, no matter how often people will drag up the tired old 'just do bones' meme to downplay how hard it is to counter.
It doesn't need to be nerfed.
We're not necessarily talking about a nerf. Sometimes things aren't OP, but they're still incredibly bad design. That's when that thing needs a rework.
That's what NOED needs. You want survivors to do totems? Then you better change it so that the guy who did 4 totems doesn't get OHKO'd by this thing, because that'll teach him -real- fast that it's not rewarding to do totems.
The only time its a real issue is when the killer is face camping a hook survivor after gens are done but still if you did totems during the game it wouldn't have been an issue.
What about when the killer facecamps -before- gens are done? Because then you need to genrush AND do totems at the same time! It's almost like NOED helps turn facecamping into a lose-lose situtation!
Haven't had trouble with NOED for months I wonder why
Because your teammates carried your behind and the killers you've gone up against don't equip NOED.
Don't assume you countered NOED just because it didn't pop at the end. At the very least, you let it slow you down -massively-, at the worst, the killer didn't have it and you wasted everyone's time.
I run DetHunch with Inner Strength. I do my totems. The 5-totem counter to NOED has succeeded -once-. All other cases, the killer didn't have it, or I didn't get all 5 totems done in time. I've had a greater success rate killing NOED off by -NOT- doing totems and waiting for it to sink into a totem that I know the location of, situations that would've been made infinitely worse had I followed your advice and settled for 'doing bones'.
If the killer has enough time to have to actively chase 4 survivors while protecting and kicking gens, you got ten seconds to cleanse a totem.
It's 14 seconds, but go off I guess.
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@Drywatr said:
Of all the killers in this game most receive complaints from the survivor side. But one killer who is the strongest is usually never complained about. The hag.
Now let me clarify what im saying. I've read multiple post on twitter of people saying hag is op, too strong and unfair. I have to wonder if any of these complainers even know the basics of facing hag.
She to me is perfectly balanced and does not need a nerf. So i will explain to survivors the best way to counter her. Crouch walk. Instantly her traps are useless.
I had to make this post because i would hate to see hag nerfed due to whiny survivors not knowing how to face her.
She to me is perfectly balanced and does not need a nerf. So i will explain to survivors the best way to counter her. Crouch walk. Instantly her traps are useless.
That'd be true if you could destroy them while crouch walking. As it is, though, due to the 6 meter radius and the incredibly slow crouch-walk speed, the most common use for them is to have a trap right under hook. This means that if a survivor goes for an unhook, they either have to trigger the trap and let Hag get a free hit in, or they have to crouchwalk away, giving the Hag about 10 seconds to approach the hook and tunnel the unhooked survivor.
The problem with Hag is that you -cannot- unhook a survivor unless you have a flashlight. She effectively camps even more often than Bubbas do.
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Wiggle speed is mostly cosmetic, sadly, since hooks are plentiful and pretty much always close by. So an up to 15% increased wiggle speed is not going to leave much of an impression. It also can't be allowed to, since if it were to consistently allow you to wiggle free, it would be tremendously overpowered and destroy killer gameplay.
I do think however that Power Struggle should lose its complete dependency on Flip-Flop to have any hope of functioning, and that it should be switched over to a charge-to-activation system, like Flashbang and Blast Mine.
In other words...
This perk charges off of recovery and wiggle progress. Once charged, you can drop a standing pallet while being carried by the killer. Doing so will remove the perk's charge.
This would make it -slightly- less conditional and removes the Flip-Flop requirement.
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I am strongly in favour of anti-camping mechanisms, but I don't think this one is the right one.
The problem is that the survivor could be transported closer to another survivor, which would make the rescue very quick and very easy, greatly reducing the value the killer gets out of hooking someone, even if they weren't going to camp in the first place. This idea would, sadly, cause a lot of collateral damage to killers that are trying to play normally, so I don't think this is a good idea.
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I saw it pop up on Youtube a couple of times but didn't look too deep into it. Then I happened to start watching OhmWrecker and got fairly interested, which built up over time until I decided to start playing.
Not gonna lie, Felix being total eye-candy and shirtless David being a thing did help bring me over the threshold to give DBD a try.
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@Shooby said:
It's fairly easy to see why Stridor, an otherwise non-problematic and niche perk was changed to be countered by Iron Will, no longer countering it. It's a band-aid Spirit nerf.
This is going to be slight conjecture, but knowing how the devs identify their targets for balance changes, statistics of Stridor probably showed a clear correlation: Stridor's usage had an inflated kill rate when ran on Spirit, and the kill rate was disproportionate for player's running her with and without Stridor. So, balancing based off of kill rate and pick rate statistics, the devs decide to nerf the perk and not the killer.
In the grand scheme of things, this change isn't too impactful or meaningful, but does highlight BHVR's inability to balance this game, once again balancing based off of statistics and not top-end or overall player feedback.
In the grand scheme of things, this change isn't too impactful or meaningful, but does highlight BHVR's inability to balance this game, once again balancing based off of statistics and not top-end or overall player feedback.
The overall player feedback, judging by these forums, was: "Stridor Spirit OP". Or at least too easy for the power it brings to the table. This change plays off of that, except that it's fairly ineffectual unless the survivor is running Iron Will.
@baseballfan4877 said:
Yeah the stridor change is dumb. Why should a survivor perk ever trump a killer perk? I mean it totally nullifies it. Where as the oak offerings you would need 4 survivor offerings to match the single offering from the killer. So i'm not sure why this is different. The only time I have used stridor is on Freddy to try out the new swing chains, and that was super niche. I don't even use stridor on spirit. So with this change, stridor is just another perk that you never want to see on almost anyone. Just another great perk to find on the fun bloodweb grind along with overwhelming presence, dead mans switch, and cruel limits
I mean it totally nullifies it.
It doesn't.
Where as the oak offerings you would need 4 survivor offerings to match the single offering from the killer.
And this is exactly why it doesn't work that way. Because much like you need 4 map offerings to cancel out that one ward, you need four Iron Wills to cancel out a Stridor.
Just because Nea brought Iron Will doesn't mean Jane isn't still squealing. Which also raises the point that the issue you bring up with Iron Will nullifying Stridor is even -more- valid when reversed in the old situation. One Iron Will now won't completely nullify Stridor, but it used to be that one Stridor would completely nullify up to four Iron Wills.
Overall, the only way either of these two perks now ends up doing literally nothing is if all four survivors bring Iron Will, as opposed to what it used to be, where all Iron Wills were completely nullified by one Stridor. Overall, I think this feels fairer all around, as it's unlikely either side will completely lose a perk due to rock-paper-scissors match-up.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2371524#Comment_2371524
I can't remember where it was, but the devs have basically said that SWFs are not escaping a noticeable amount over solo-Q's.
Given they are now buffing solo-Q to SWF levels; it seems they may not have had complete data, or were ignoring it. 🤔 No shade on the devs, but these are the same people who spent YEARS ignoring people who said 'Change the struggle mechanic; it PHYSICALLY HURTS!', and their only excuse was 'We created this; it won't be changed.'
And then they changed it, but only after years of complaints.
The moral of that being that the devs are very slow to admit mistakes. Mistakes like the Struggle Mechanic, or SWFs.
"I can't remember where it was, but the devs have basically said that SWFs are not escaping a noticeable amount over solo-Q's."
Okay, so what evidence do -you- have to argue the opposite?
And on top of that: what evidence do you have to suggest that Swiffering is the unbalanced option, as opposed to soloing?
On top of that: what is your suggestion on how to handle three-man swiffers?
On top of -that-: how do you intend to ensure that killers won't simply exclusively choose the easier mode?
Listen, you might think that Swiffers are a problem because you've been hanging around these forums, and these forums are pretty heavily killer-sided.
The only thing that should be addressed is bully squads, and that should be tackled mechanically, in my opinion. Like giving the killer benefits every time they're forced to drop a survivor, lasting until they get a hook. Just so they can circumvent flashlight, bodyblock and sabo bullying.
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@HEXSLAYER999 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2370208#Comment_2370208
Well for starters; 1) that is the point. Eventually they will want to get out of the grey ranks when they feel trials are not challenging; i dont know behavior can start offering rewards when ranking season end. That would be the primary motivation for ranking up. 2) with everything said above some swfs (specifically the ppl that do want to rank up and are not swfing to be trolls or d*@$#3 bags) this will give thise survivors more reason to try solo play and (dare i say it?) Actually learning how to play skillfully.
Not discrediting you, it will start off like that but eventually they will reach a plateau.
Another idea is to have normal progression until they get passed grey ranks. Kind of like how tourney mode is in naruto shinobi striker.
Or a separate rank for swf and solo queue. It makes sense to me. if a player is only skillful dependant on if they are in a swf with comms then that level of exp/skill is opposite of if a player can be skillful surviving on solo queue (in laymen terms for anyone fixated on what they want in their narrow mind) surviving as a team on solo queue is completely diff then surviving as a swf.
You are really putting way too much stock into how tryhard these bully squads are. They don't want a fair match and they don't care about ranking up, they just want to make some killer's life miserable, and this idea helps them do exactly that. This idea just makes lower level killers more likely to get matched into steeply uphill trials.
I don't even think Swiffering needs a solution, per se, but if it did, this would definitely not be it.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2370878#Comment_2370878
You keep saying 'NoED does not encourage doing totems because Survivors don't want to/might not find them all'. People will invent any reason to try changing or nerfing NoED.
No, it's not because survivors 'don't want to', it's because cleansing totems just doesn't work as a practical strategy against NOED due to the way it is designed. In the vast majority of cases, trying to cleanse totems as a counter to NOED is just going to disadvantage your team more than just leaving them up.
NOED just doesn't work as an incentive to do totems.
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@Power_Guy said:
No. NoED is fine. The point of NoED is to be an unknown threat that pushes Survivors to stop doing gens. It was a bandaid fix to the 'genrush'.
If you change it, you remove that threat, and Survivors will just sit on gens, then leave. It, literally, has to stay what it is to make Survivors feel threatened enough to hunt for totems. And even then; many Survivors would rather do every gen ASAP, get hit with NoED, and then whine.
NOED, in its current form, does -not- encourage survivors to do totems. Paradoxically, doing totems benefits NOED more often than it hurts it.
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I think that's a pretty bad idea. If it takes that team longer to rank up, then they'll likely keep getting placed against lower rank killers, who are less likely to be able to deal with them. This as opposed to them rocketing up to red ranks, where there's plenty of killer players that will give them a way more fair challenge.
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Then it releases and turns out to be the Kandyman from Doctor Who instead.
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They are both real. Genrushing is harder to pin-point, but it's basically survivors making sure that they're never with two or more on a gen, always split up because it's faster and more efficient.
Tunnelling is also real, but it's more than just being chased off hook. If someone else throws themselves at the killer and the killer sticks to the unhooked target, that's somewhat tunnelling. What's more obviously tunnelling is if a killer is mid-chase and drops the chase to double back to a fresh unhook. At that point you are playing exclusively to take that one unfortunate survivor out of the game.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2366030#Comment_2366030
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2366035#Comment_2366035
Being on a hook or slugged is a part of survivor gameplay. You are basically complaining that you don't like survivor gameplay and that's somehow an issue of the killers.
Not to method chases are the "fun" part of the game and if you are being tunneled you are experiencing only chases.
Getting put on the hook is part of survivor gameplay. Staying there is not.
It's fine for a killer to occasionally slap you on the hook, but if they do everything in their power to ascertain that that is the only thing you get to do, it kills the gameplay.
Being on the hook and being slugged aren't part of gameplay. That's like saying the loading screen between death and respawn in a souls-like is 'gameplay'.
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Absolutely not. The basement is simply a tool to support camping and tunnelling, any perks that help it perform this role are really, really bad for the game.
I'd rather see the entire basement removed and its perks reworked.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364586#Comment_2364586
It's not just a Leatherface problem. Huntress, Trickster, Billy, Plague, Demogorgon, Trapper, Hag, Wraith, Oni, Myers, Twins, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Doctor, Legion, Ghostface, and any other killer with a few stacks of STBFL.
It is... Wow, there are a lot of killers who can effectively facecamp. I actually didn't think that list would be as long as it is. DbD really does have some serious issues surrounding hook mechanics.
At least Freddy got taken off the list with the BT buff.
Some of those I agree are more capable of protecting the hook, like Iri head Huntress, Hillbilly, Trapper, Myers and Ghostface.
But a lot of these would have their camping countered quite effectively by BT. They can get a hit in on the unhooked survivor, sure, but that survivor is going to get a speed boost and reset the chase from the endurance hit.
Bubba is the big problem because his chainsaw covers more ground than that, and it can down both unhooker and unhooked at the same time.
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@SHYHERIST said:
Delete useless zombies.
They're a great source of intel, so no.
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@Ruma said:
We got alot of totem hunt perks lately which is really stupid considering some of the spawns.
Sure on maps like Midwich its hard to find but there are maps where its soooo easy.
We didn't get a lot of totem hunter perks lately, one perk got reworked and one was added. Small game is solid, but Counterforce is a terrible totem-hunting perk in comparison to both Small Game and Detective's Hunch.
The situation really hasn't changed much in the last couple of months, outside of the fact that a really highly requested solo play feature was tacked onto Small Game, so that gets picked up more.
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@Arachne said:
Just think about it, Hooks removes the survivor ability to play the game and killers like Leatherface can facecamp someone the whole game since they have no incentive to move away from it. Other asymmetrical games does this way better. Example: Last Year puts survivor in random lockers where killers have incentive to go there. Home Sweet Home Survive have a revival system like Apex Legends. Seriously, they should just rework the hook in general. Everyone wants to play the game, not only the killer.
Hooks removes the survivor ability to play the game and killers like Leatherface can facecamp someone the whole game since they have no incentive to move away from it.
That's not a hook problem, that's a Bubba problem. On-demand instadown that can chew through multiple survivors and cancel out BT is why facecamp Bubba exists.
Hooks aren't a problem. Getting put in timeout because you were taken down isn't that big of an issue, especially since you're technically at your safest while you're on a hook, allowing you some down-time from what could otherwise be a high-octane game. What's a problem is that killers can sit on a hook for an extended period of time without any in-match punishment for it.
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@NaigEtarip said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364332#Comment_2364332
Oh, it would be changed, would it?
This is the important point, that's my hypotesis. It holds no logical basis as i don't work in the company that leads the game.
I could be right but i also could be wrong.
Like they actually attempted before, but reverted because the solution had its own problems?
Right, so do you think that i should use my guess on why it was reverted to tell other's if they are wrong or right about their actions now?
Wouldn't that be misleading others? Misleading community towards what actually could be worse for the game cause i don't hold any proof?
I understand that sometimes is hard to realize that our opinions hardly hold logical basis... but don't take our discussion as a personal attack.
It's been an enjoyable discussion.
Right, so do you think that i should use my guess on why it was reverted to tell other's if they are wrong or right about their actions now?
No, but I think you should stop hurling out bad-faith rhetoric in an attempt to defend camping.
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@NaigEtarip said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364207#Comment_2364207
Cause a feature of a game being overused / underused might not be intended?
I also can guess that if it was "bad" for the game it wouldn't be discouraged but prevented or changed. Don't you think?
Oh, it would be changed, would it?
Like they actually attempted before, but reverted because the solution had its own problems?
And why would there be a problem with it being overused if there is no negative impact to camping? I mean, you don't see BHVR taking measures against gens getting done, and I'm pretty sure 100% of survivors will attempt to do gens in the vast majority of their matches!
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@KayTwoAyy said:
I am confused by this post.
Basically, Ezekanario is a facecamper and he needs validation from the forums because he isn't getting it in-game.
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@NaigEtarip said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364179#Comment_2364179
I'm here so you realize that there's no logic on giving negative connotation to player intended behaviour.
Camping is blocking movement input, deleting gameplay is another negative connotation you want to give it.
There are many possibilities of what could have lead to camping, what happens while and after.
How are you sure you would enjoy a game without those?
All right, dip, quick quesh for ya:
If it is 'intended', why is it punished?
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I am entirely convinced that this game survives purely by the goodwill of its playerbase, and that if no one decided to 'play nice', the game would die within a week.
So playing nice not only makes the game more fun and rewarding, it helps to keep it alive too.