Firellius
Firellius
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706789#Comment_2706789
I'll say 2 things:
- The devs really have to look at 'Camping Vs Gen Speeds' and do something, regardless of how the player base feels about it. Because the player base will never agree.
- They have to implement whatever fixes to both at the same time. Not nerf/punish camping, then fix gen speeds 6 months to a year later. Not fix gen speeds, then alter camping 6 to 12 months later.
If they don't fix both at the same time, in the same patch, one side or the other will riot. Either Killers will be stuck with 5 minute games and the inability to secure game-changing kills, or Survivors will have games drawn out while Killers camp.
And, honestly, I don't know if BHVR can do it. Not slinging mud, but they kind of have a history of speed-changing Killer's powers/perks ASAP while slowly adjusting Survivor's perks. Maybe that's why so many Killers don't see a change forthcoming; because it won't be an equal change, and will skew the game so hard for months, if not years.
Just look at this healy-boon; both sides seem to agree it's OP...And nothing has been changed. But I have a feeling, had it been a Killer perk? Within 7 days, there would have been a patch.
And I fully agree with both of those rules. The game needs a one-shot overhaul that lowers the stakes for both sides, so that killers can take a breather and survivors don't have to deal with tactics that see them locked out of play.
It's definitely not going to be easy, and yeah, it's doubtful BHVR can do it. They made -this- MMR system, for pete's sake! But if, somehow, they managed to do it, they absolutely need to nerf/buff both sides, equivalently, at the same time.
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Both sides have game design issues.
Gen speeds are a problem, but I think there's a subtle issue that's not often recognised in the way co-op repair is handled. The stacking repair speed debuff is a band-aid to try and stop survivors from roaming in a pack, but the problem is that now, the fastest way to do gens is to split up and put everyone on their own gen. Which is also the safest way to do gens, since the killer has a harder time pressuring four gens at once. If base gen speeds were slowed but co-op repair speed was increased instead of decreased, survivors would have to make a tactical decision: Do we want to do it fast, or safe?
On the flipside, there's camping, tunnelling and slugging, which are ways for the killer to guarantee a kill with minimum effort, or close a match out really fast. It's all band-aided with 'second chance perks', but it needs to be addressed in a better way that also doesn't see killers complain about facing the same perks all the time.
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As am I. I'm also just baffled by how spaghetti-code the game is to allow resolution to have gameplay-altering impact. Does widescreen also increase the FoV for killers?
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706593#Comment_2706593
The first part is an ongoing argument, so I'll pass that.
As for claiming 'Gens speeds are fast because Killers camp'; you have it backwards: Killers started camping when they realized gens were going faster. But there you are; blaming Killers for Survivor's actions and 'fun'.
I've been in the game since launch; Killers rarely camped, because camping sucked, at the start. Until gen speeds sped up, thanks to perks and toolkits and an overall optimizing of Survivor's gameplay loops. At that point, Killers realized they HAD to get kills ASAP to slow down gen speeds, not trade hooks.
Show me anywhere where devs said 'We made gen speeds faster to compensate for camping'? You can't. Which means gen speeds WERE NOT optimized because Killers camp. Instead, since gens can only go so fast, it's more likely that Killers adopted new strats as Survivors got faster thanks to perks, items, addons, and a general building of personal skill.
But, of course, you look at the problem, blame Killers, then say it's Killers that must be punished/nerfed to fix it, then try to say 'But we should not do Us Vs Them' right after you did Us Vs Them.
And for 'advocating for the lowest possible effort strategy a killer can employ'.
There's that peer pressure. Shame Killers into avoiding tactics Survivors deem 'unacceptable', so they won't do them. Because Survivors feel they have this divine right to determine how their opponent plays. And if they can't scream for nerfs, they will use peer pressure, insults, and subtext (Camping is what BAD killers do! (Unsaid: You don't want to be a BAD killer, right?)) to alter their opponents behavior.
Even if you don't want to 'us vs them' the discussion; you sure do still partake of it while trying to demand I should not.
I've been in the game since launch; Killers rarely camped, because camping sucked, at the start. Until gen speeds sped up, thanks to perks and toolkits and an overall optimizing of Survivor's gameplay loops. At that point, Killers realized they HAD to get kills ASAP to slow down gen speeds, not trade hooks.
The very first PTB involved anti-camping measures. You can keep thinking that killers are perfect little angels, but they're not all interested in a fair game, and some aren't interested in pushing themselves for a big win.
Show me anywhere where devs said 'We made gen speeds faster to compensate for camping'? You can't. Which means gen speeds WERE NOT optimized because Killers camp. Instead, since gens can only go so fast, it's more likely that Killers adopted new strats as Survivors got faster thanks to perks, items, addons, and a general building of personal skill.
Who's talking about gens being sped up?
I'm talking about how the devs CAN'T slow gens down, because it'll directly buff camping. Hard.
But, of course, you look at the problem, blame Killers, then say it's Killers that must be punished/nerfed to fix it, then try to say 'But we should not do Us Vs Them' right after you did Us Vs Them.
I'm pitting things against a flaw in game design, not against killers. I am constantly saying that we could improve things for killers if camping were to be removed. From the get go, I mentioned that camping is upholding balancing issues. That includes things working AGAINST the killers. That's why I'm going on the 'gen speeds can't be slowed because of camping' angle. It's a buff for killers, but it's hamstrung by camping.
My entire argument is trying to figure out how to nerf campers so we can buff killers, and you're saying I just want to nerf killers!?
There's that peer pressure. Shame Killers into avoiding tactics Survivors deem 'unacceptable', so they won't do them. Because Survivors feel they have this divine right to determine how their opponent plays. And if they can't scream for nerfs, they will use peer pressure, insults, and subtext (Camping is what BAD killers do! (Unsaid: You don't want to be a BAD killer, right?)) to alter their opponents behavior.
YOU came barging into this thread to shame people for wanting camping fixed. YOU came in here to try and peer pressure people into dropping an argument for improved game design.
Even if you don't want to 'us vs them' the discussion; you sure do still partake of it while trying to demand I should not.
Because you're not reading any arguments. Any word against camping you immediately turn into 'Survivor want killers nerfed' with zero nuance. You don't bother trying to invest yourself in the discussion, you don't bother exploring other perspectives. You just immediately jump to the conclusion that the survivors must want killers nerfed and survivors buffed.
THIS is why we're not getting anywhere. This kind of attitude has people aiming a loaded gun at the other side and saying 'You drop yours first, and I'll totally drop mine after'.
No. Both sides will have to make concessions if this game wants to have any chance of improving.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706541#Comment_2706541
By spawn-deterrent, what do you mean?
Immunity so you can find & do gens when a match starts? That's hard fair, if the Killer finds you; you have free gen time now.
Or immunity to being 'tunneled' when unhooked? Because there's perks for that. Anything built in would literally break the game at this point, given DH, DS, BT & Unbreakable. (Seriously; DS & Unbreakable = Killer Can't Win. They wait out DS? You stand up and run. They pick you up? You DS.)
Or immunity to being camped? Any fix that I've ever read had massive exploits Survivors could abuse for free unhooks. To which the makers said 'That's the Killer's problem'. Which meant the fixes were less 'Play fair' and more 'Let me win, screw the other side'.
Survivors need to let go of this 'punish tunneling/camping/slugging' because it will never go away. If a Killer wants to try to win; who gets to demand they do it 'my way'? Why do Survivors get to demand Killer tactics be removed/punished/nerfed? Why can Survivors pound out a gen in 60 seconds and say 'Killer's fault' and then get camped and say 'This is not fair'?
Because they are the same thing; doing one's objective as efficiently as they feel is possible for the moment. Why do Survivors think they have a right to demand Killers play less efficiently? Why do they shove this bullshit under 'Fun' and 'Fair play', again, placing the onus for their 'fun' directly on how the Killer plays?
It's nothing but a smokescreen for 'Let me win easier'.
By spawn-deterrent, what do you mean?
Sorry, that's meant to be 'camping deterrent'. My bad.
Or immunity to being 'tunneled' when unhooked? Because there's perks for that. Anything built in would literally break the game at this point, given DH, DS, BT & Unbreakable. (Seriously; DS & Unbreakable = Killer Can't Win. They wait out DS? You stand up and run. They pick you up? You DS.)
Yeah, there's perks, but those cost perk slots. Not exactly fair to band-aid bad design by forcing players to just give up build variety.
And DS+UB = killer can't win? If you don't go for the unhooked target, DS never fires unless someone baits you into it. The ONLY times I ever got hit by DS is when I got baited into it and I could've easily avoided it.
And even DS UB isn't unstoppable. So they get up with UB, then what? You're on top of them and they go down in one hit. Hardly 'unbeatable'.
And all of this is on the premise that an anti-tunnelling measure needs to, for some godforsaken reason, leave room for the killer to continue tunnelling. It's laughable.
Or immunity to being camped? Any fix that I've ever read had massive exploits Survivors could abuse for free unhooks. To which the makers said 'That's the Killer's problem'. Which meant the fixes were less 'Play fair' and more 'Let me win, screw the other side'.
Aside from some of those complaints being complaints that anti-camping measures would make camping difficult; Just because a solution hasn't been found yet doesn't mean DBD doesn't -need- one.
Survivors need to let go of this 'punish tunneling/camping/slugging' because it will never go away. If a Killer wants to try to win; who gets to demand they do it 'my way'? Why do Survivors get to demand Killer tactics be removed/punished/nerfed?
Because, like it or not, survivors also play this game. Much like busted old DS and keys were gutted, other changes can, have and will be made to accommodate killers and improve their experience. The same can be extended to survivors. The more you entrench yourself in this idea of 'survivors shouldn't have a say in killer balance', the more you also discredit any idea for survivor nerfs.
Less 'us vs them', more 'how can we make the game better?'.
Why can Survivors pound out a gen in 60 seconds and say 'Killer's fault' and then get camped and say 'This is not fair'?
Because gens need to go this fast precisely because of camping. Because if you make gens slower, camping becomes stronger. Exactly as I said: Camping is the lynchpin to almost ALL of DBD's balancing problems. A TON of things that would make the game MUCH better cannot happen as long as camping still exists, because camping would just scale out of control.
It's nothing but a smokescreen for 'Let me win easier'.
You are literally advocating for the lowest possible effort strategy a killer can employ, buddy. Do you really think you have any kind of high ground here?
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706502#Comment_2706502
This game is too different to give 'safe zones' and 'anti-camping' mechanics, because the Killer literally has to camp to win sometimes, and Survivors would run into a safe zone with Sprint Burst and Dead Hard every time they are chased.
If you can't understand that different games have different designs, and no boilerplate template will apply to everything, then YOU need game design 101.
IE: Just because other games do it does not mean DBD should do it. This is a lazy excuse to demand punishments to Killer tactics so Survivors can win more easily. Nothing more.
The fundamental problem with camping is the exact same: You lock someone into a death state. And nowhere did @Munqaxus say that DBD should have safe zones or random spawns or what-have-you, but they did imply that DBD needs -some kind- of spawn deterrent, like all other games with camping problems.
This is actually even more true of DBD, since it's asymmetrical. Camping is a lynch pin in a bunch of balancing issues. There's complaints that survivors clear their objectives too fast, but what happens if it gets slowed down? Sure, regular, 12 hook gameplay gets buffed, but not nearly as much as camping does. Killers will be more incentivised to just sit on hook and wait for the first target to die, since with slower gens, it'll pretty much guarantee a 2K or better.
Almost any kind of buff to killers and any kind of nerf to survivors is going to benefit campers more than it's going to benefit people who play legitimately. That's why camping is such a pressing issue: It's holding not just that one survivor on the hook hostage. It's holding the entire game itself hostage.
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@sadakiyo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706477#Comment_2706477
thats called stretched resolution
Stretched resolution allows survivors to see over and around obstacles that they're not supposed to.
Unless you're saying True is playing with stretched res, which allowed his camera angle to widen to the point where he could get blinded there, in which case it's kind of his own fault.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706291#Comment_2706291
It’s not a hacker. They were on comms and have a loop where if one person dives into a specific locker, and the killer opens it, then a survivor on the second floor can drop down and get the blind 100% of the time. No hack needed.
But as soon as True catches on to that strat, he catches one off guard, picks them up while having his camera clip through a wall, and he still got blinded.
That smells more like hacking.
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Dude, that's just a hacker. That's not how the game works.
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This is massive overnerfing with enormous collateral damage.
The doubled bless timer after one snuff makes these boons roughly 'one use per trial', at which point they aren't worth picking under any circumstance. CoH would struggle to be a viable pick, but the other boons would just never get picked up anymore.
And nerfing ALL healing to accommodate CoH better is also a major waste. If someone invests a ton of perk slots to heal fast, let them heal fast. It'd be fairer to change all heal speed boosters to 'heal speed when healing without the use of a medkit', and probably change CoH to 'when healing someone else without a medkit'.
When a boon gets snuffed, the person who blessed it should have their boon put on a 60 second cooldown, and the totem that was snuffed should also go on a 60 second cooldown.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
Let me ask you guys something if you say NOED is "OP" and it needs a "nerf" and all that stuff. Why is it that you have time to go hunt a totem to bless it with a Boon Effect and you keep Blessing some of them all game why don't you have enough time to cleanse the other totems to prevent NOED?
Like yeah it's strong I get that but, saying it's OP is a bit much considering it can never be activated at all sometimes in some games. So if you Bless them why can't you Cleanse the others?
"You can do one totem, which immediately puts pressure on the killer and can save you time in a later situation, so why can't you do all five totems with absolutely 0 certainty of any return on investment?"
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@Crowman said:
Because the devs aren't making aspects of the game more enjoyable in the process.
Boons are annoying to deal with because as a killer there's no real counterplay to them besides killing the survivor who has the perk (and good luck if 2+ survivors have one).
Survivor gameplay hasn't changed so instead of having a fun objective they can do while avoiding the killer they rely on the killer for fun.
This has also led to the objective getting so optimized that killers don't have any time to waste and have to resort to tactics survivors find unfun if they want a chance to kill a single survivor.
The game may be getting more balanced but it's simply also getting less fun because the devs are simply not improving the game in a way for fun. Their end result is to see the numbers in the right spot.
To be fair, the game getting 'less fun' isn't entirely down to the devs.
'Given enough time, players will optimise the fun out of a game'
I think that sums up the big frustrations with DbD at the moment. Survivors clear objectives too fast at high MMR, killers tunnel, slug and camp or just outright stomp at low mmr. Matches are just too sweaty to last any amount of time, or be fun.
The game needs lowered stakes. Buffs on both sides, aimed at making longer matches.
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@Veinslay said:
Killers aren't allowed a second chance perk, but survivors can have a hundred
I think survivors can have a hundred second chance perks because they're supposed to have three chances by default. Just because killers like to exploit a weakness in game design doesn't mean these 'second chance' perks are a problem.
Dead Hard, you can maybe argue. But if you're still complaining about DS at this stage, you are the problem.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703879#Comment_2703879
Just saying they have time to do the bones. First perk that needs to be fixed is CoH, Noed is fine.
They have time to do bones because the boon effects give them that extra time.
And even then, they're not doing all five.
The issue with NOED is in two parts:
1: Its counterplay is supposed to happen before it's declared, making it an investment risk. NOED is the best slowdown perk in the game as long as you don't equip it.
2: The all-or-nothing approach creates incredibly unfair situations that hurts solos far more than swiffers, and can even make the 'counterplay' a considerable risk.
I'd solve this by making NOED
1: baseline. It's always on, meaning investing in countering it is always a good idea.
2: scale with the number of remaining totems. This way, if you don't bother at all, you truly get punished, but if you get 4/5, you don't get insta-smacked as 'punishment for not doing bones'.
Of course, this'd need to come packaged with deletion of hook camping, but I think that goes without saying. Camping is the lodestone to pretty much all balance issues.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2697147#Comment_2697147
Just because the gate is open doesn't mean it isn't tunneling anymore. You're free to tunnel, but there also should be consequences.
It's tunnelling, but there's no other opportunity for the killer to get that takedown if it's EGC, so I think DS should deactivate in EGC, in exchange for the second proc and maybe some scratch mark removal or a speed boost.
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The ones that spring to mind most for me are GoodBoyKaru, Pulsar and Orion with WGLF, Steve and Nurse respectively.
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@Myla said:
What happens if she got light burned? Does she get a massive stun like what Wraith does?
I think, according to a tip I read, she's supposed to be unable to charge her blink while in the light, but I know it didn't work for me when I tried to stop her from going after a teammate with that.
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For Survivors: Fixated. Absolute best stealth perk, IMO. It massively increases your action radius and opens up a ton of extra hiding spots that you can reach without leaving scratch marks. I've had multiple matches where the killer comes to check on the gen I'm working on and I'm a distance away, watching them from a hiding place they don't check because they think I can't reach it without running. It's a phenomenal perk.
For Killers: I think a lot of killer perks are pretty adequately estimated on their value, but I think Surge/Jolt might be getting a bit worse of a rap than it deserves. It's just nice being able to put a gen into regression on a down, not having to spend another couple of seconds kicking it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
You can also kick Victor if he misses, or if Dead Hard works correctly without validation kicking in. Like yeah that's what always happened, just with far less consistency than now, what's your point? Like it's the same cooldown and everything
The problem is probably that a missed/dead-harded jump will send Victor careening off towards the sunset, usually allowing him to survive due to his cooldown being shorter than the time it takes survivors to run up to him.
This doesn't happen with a validated DH, though, dropping Victor right at the kickers. It's another 'false positive' issue, like Nemmy's tentacle not shattering a pallet if he gets a false positive on a DHing survivor.
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@Faen said:
Nowadays, almost everyone uses this perk. Because he forgives mistakes, and the killers cannot resist him in any way. Especially with validation. I often see survivors become more insolent because they know they have Dead Hard to save them. As in the old DS, where it was not canceled by certain actions.
So how do I propose to change this. Add constraint. When survivors are using it, they cannot use pallets and windows for 3 seconds. So the survivors will at least begin to wonder where and how to use it correctly. Instead of just pushing it near the pallet to dump. And the killer won't do anything.
Dead Hard will net you 3 seconds, tops, if you can't use it to dash to pallet or window. The whole 'then they'll think about when and where to use it' is a clear misunderstanding of how the perk works. If they're dashing to a pallet or window, they clearly DID think about when and where to use it.
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For every survivor complaint, there's a killer complaint about the survivor complaint.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692871#Comment_2692871
I disagree, cleansing 5 totems removes at least 2 perks, if not more, from the killers repertoire. That alone makes it worth it.
This would only be difficult if you or your teammates are bad at looping or doing gens while the killer is chasing someone, which isn’t a problem with totems but a problem with people having a lack of skill.
It would also be difficult if the killer isn't bad at looping or pressuring gens.
Five totems for two perks is still really strong slowdown, and again, mostly hurts solos while having less impact on swiffers.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Personal opinion: I don't think NOED should get nerfed or reworked as long as there are other, better second chance Perks on the Survivor side. If those didn't exist, NOED would need a rework
What second chance perks are you referring to?
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692433#Comment_2692433
Is not cleansing Ruin and preventing the regression of gens not enough of a reward for the time investment of searching for totems?
Not if they have to do it five times before it pays off.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692417#Comment_2692417
In fairness, "this proved that there was enough time to go tackle totems in a match, which negates arguments about how undying etc. was busted because that's too much" is a solid argument, even if the phrasing isn't
It's not quite that solid.
Yeah, survivors have time to hunt down a totem and fix it, but only because the reward they get saves them the time they invest.
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'Do bones'
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@ManOMaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2687823#Comment_2687823
That is not true. Being stuck on the ground for 4 minutes with no choice is not the same as just having some survivors tbag you at the exits. The difference is that if you are the survivor stuck on the ground you can’t do anything about it except either wait to die or dc. But with survivors in the exits, as the killer, you control how it goes. Just push out the survivors and that instantly ends the bming. The two scenarios are very different.
In principle, they are the same. It's the winning party extending the match to gloat. Even if it is true that the killer can put a quick stop to it while a survivor is completely helpless.
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It's probably because survivor gameplay is actually pretty varied. There's quite a few different dynamics between getting chased, sitting on a gen, hunting totems, moving for a rescue or healing someone.
So when a killer just cuts off all gameplay except the chase, that's just going to cut out most of the fun. And that's assuming the chases last any time at all, since when you get off the hook, you're likely to be in a bit of a dead zone, too.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684861#Comment_2684861
8 hooks is not more than 2 kills on average. That configuration can only yield 2 kills, tops. Kills cannot be rounded, because BHVR does not measure by hook states.
Yes, yes, yes, you can factor in Devour Hope and Mori's if you really want to nit pick, they are outliers.
What's not an outlier, however, is a one hook death in end-game. That's incredibly common.
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@landromat said:
because of how easy it is to get 2 kills killers should be balanced around getting at least 2 kills every game. If killer is having 50% kill rate that's a terrible killer and something should be done to buff them
So the survivors should be balanced to have next to no chance to win, then?
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While this post-match chat is definitely crossing several lines and the lot of them deserve reports...
Where's the double standards? Because judging by the point totals, there wasn't a lot of juking happening, so it looks more like you camped and bleedout slugged to ruin the day for some random folks that really didn't do anything to you.
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@Irisora said:
Because its not needed and its a waste of a precious perk slot?
- If you are repairing and someone is on the hook and you see another survivor getting injured you know you have to go for the unhook.
- The killer is camping? you can know it by going near the hook.
- If you are repairing somewhat near the hooked survivor you know you have to at least go and check because maybe the others are far away and its like that most of the times.
Over rated perk in conclusion. Not needed by survivors that are experienced and know what to do.
The killer is camping? you can know it by going near the hook.
You can't afford to check the hook if the killer camps first hook. It'll cost you too much time and you won't be able to finish all gens and open the gate before the hook victim dies and the killer grabs another one with NOED.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2681581#Comment_2681581
Again, the killer is bad so what is the issue? Why can't you do 5 totems vs a bad killer? Or are you saying good killers shouldn't be able to win with NOED because they just shouldn't?
What about a mediocre killer? What about a camping killer? You're being overly reductionist and only talking about a killer who fails to get even three hooks in all that time, but killers that struggle that much are pretty damn rare.
Again, the killer doesn't have to be that good, taking down five totems takes an age and a half to do, giving the killer plenty of extra time. You're acting as if a killer either outright wins the game in two minutes flat or fails to get a single down in over 15. There's a gradient in how much time survivors have to complete the match and there's a sizeable chunk where NOEDs punishment is disproportionate to its counter.
And that also doesn't take into account that it can be one of the worst killer players in the world, if they're chasing me, -I- can't do ANY totems.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2680205#Comment_2680205
Why? Isn't the issue with NOED that it's not fair because bad killers get kills they shouldn't? If the killer, who only has 3 perks until the end, exerted so much pressure on the match that you couldn't do 5 totems, then they probably did actually deserve those kills at the end of the game. If they were the super bad killer most people say a NOED user is, then the match should have been easy enough to get 5 totems. Unless the survivors were just trying to get out ASAP and simply decided to rush despite a bad killer. Which in that case, is entirely their fault. "You can't expect solo survivors to not be terrible!" why?
NOED either can be countered before the fifth gen is done, or the killer is playing with 3 perks until end-game. One or the other.
Because if you're demanding that survivors do five totems before fifth gen, that means NOED is a slow-down perk that is active during regular gameplay, no different from, say, Thanatophobia and Dying Light.
If the killer, who only has 3 perks until the end, exerted so much pressure on the match that you couldn't do 5 totems, then they probably did actually deserve those kills at the end of the game.
Unless it's solo queue and there's up to four survivors trying to do up to five totems without any means of communicating who is doing totems, where, and how many are already destroyed in which places. Those five totems are a TON of extra time, so it's really not hard for a killer to apply enough pressure to make doing five totems difficult, if not impossible.
Hell, you can stand under your first hook and you've already succeeded at doing exactly that, with literally zero effort.
The fact that NOED demands a massive investment into its supposed counter before it is declared is already bad enough, but its overreliance on cooperation between survivors that are not supposed to be able to coordinate this counter makes 'do bones' the most short-sighted and ill-thought-out response to NOED complaints possible.
NOED needs a rework.
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This forum swings wildly between 'do bones' and 'don't do bones, it's a terrible counter'. Like the collective average IQ swings over the course of the day.
Anyway, NOED needs reworking to make it a fairer, more engaging element.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
Do you want the game to win for you every 3rd or 4th trial? If so, use Ruin.
Would you like to feel like you won because you played well? If so, don't use Hex Perks.
I will give mad respect to a Devour Hope player, that Hex requires a ton of skill to pull off.
In regards to Ruin: yes, it often goes down relatively quick. However, if you get a hook in before it's found, the chance for survivors to win drops really, -really- dramatically.
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@ShinobuSK said:
What does complaining about BT have anything to do with tunneling ?
You clearly arent reading complaints about it lol
There are still killers out there who are upset that the perk makes it harder to tunnel though.
It's not the majority of complaints, however. Most complaints are about how hard a BT bodyblock makes it to -not- tunnel.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676634#Comment_2676634
The survivors will always gain time if it takes the Killer more than 1/4 of the time to snuff it that it took to set it up. Therefore, the survivor can spend four times as much time finding it as the killer does.
Any actual effect of the boon totem is a bonus on top of that.
That's assuming all four survivors are up and running. And the killer takes 1/7th of the time to snuff it, so I think we're good.
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@ObscurityDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676147#Comment_2676147
Right, because having à strong perk that Can be abused by good survivors is justified as long as it changes 1 perk of the 6 meta (and in swf it can be only 1 of the 16)
How about nerfing the super strong perk that can be abused while buffing the weaker ones to make them viable to use?
Oh i guess surv probably wont use them anyway, they arent second chances that can stack right ?
There are already à lot of very good survivor perks, but since theybdont give à second chance if they ######### up, well surv players often say they are weak and dont use them
You can't nerf most of the survivor meta perks.
Because they're really weak perks. The only ones that stand out as potential problems are BT, DH and IW. And that last one is apparently bugged.
BT should remove collision for its duration so it can't be used offensively, DH is much more difficult to balance.
But particularly DS and UB are really weak perks with very conditional application, limited value, and unbelievably easy counterplay. I never got hit by them once I learned to recognise a survivor trying to bait out a DS, rendering the perk entirely useless.
There's an issue with the whole 'second chance' angle, too, in general: Survivors have three hook states. The game is designed from the ground up to give survivors three chances. The fact you're complaining about perks that try to ascertain that survivors get a second chance shows you're not interested in giving them a fair shot.
Don't tunnel, don't camp, don't slug.
If killers never did any of those, DS, UB and BT would die out immediately.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676328#Comment_2676328
Survivor time is far less valuable than killers since it's a team of 4 survivors. It does not matter if 1 survivor has to spend time to go off and bless that totem, because it's always a net gain for the entire team.
That's not true. It's only a net gain if the boon affects more than one heal. If it gets snuffed after one heal, survivors gain nothing. If it gets snuffed before one heal, survivors lose time.
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I don't mind Huntress, outside of the hitbox issues on her hatchets. They're so absolutely massive that they can phase through solid objects and are open to wilful abuse, and that deserves some fixing.
Outside of that, I've never had much issue with Huntresses.
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@laKUKA said:
Countries of the first world creating nuclear bombs exploiting all the resources ... and these children get angry because there are a couple of computers on ...
'I can't believe people care about aids-patients when cancer exists!'
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664783#Comment_2664783
That...is a very cynical view to have, to be perfectly honest.
Want an example? Doom Eternal and Animal Crossing New Horizons releasing on the same day. I highly doubt that wasn't coincidental.
Oh, a DbD example? Patch 5.3.0.
Nintendo was just scared they'd lose their cute-style life sim players to the other big game in the genre, so they rushed AC's release.
Heard it here first, folks!
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666281#Comment_2666281
Seeing nearly every survivor run it doesn't seem very fine to me...
Also survivors consistently timing it as you attack is usually a cheat. There's an auto dead hard cheat.
Seeing nearly every survivor run it doesn't seem very fine to me...
DS is also very common and that perk has a harsh cost to use, is very situational, and is easily counterplayed. Sometimes perks get picked very frequently without being overpowered, or even strong.
Survivors really don't have that many good perks to pick from.
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@Blueberry said:
He needs some heavy buffs.
They could make his tentacle strike damage on the first hit (removing the 3 hits to down thing) which would indeed be a huge buff and he would still just be a flat out worse Demogorgan...who is already only just a decent killer that still gets mopped by good survivors...that should illustrate how really bad Nemesis is. Demogorgan does everything Nemesis does except significantly better.
The problem with that is now infection has no purpose. This is why they should really tie infection to growing his zombies. IE for each survivor infected it increases the zombies move speed, detection range, ect. I like the idea of more zombies but they've already stated that's not happening so we're doing the next best thing and making the 2 we do have just better.
The zombies at base need to not get stuck on objects like they currently do, move faster, have higher detection range, and honestly just be flat out more useful/smart. I shouldn't be able to work on a gen and the zombie walks right past me on the other side of the gen without detecting me just because I'm out of line of sight...he should be able to hear me on the gen.
Don't know how you come to the conclusion that he's a worse demo. Demo suffers worse penalties for whiffing his power, and that power does not go through pallets and windows, making it far weaker in loops. Nemesis also has passive intel and pressure. In theory.
Because, IMO, that is Nemesis' actual problem: the zombie AI is busted. If they do what they're supposed to, Nemesis is fine. If they faceplant into a tree, he's underwhelming.
Fix the zombies. Then re-evaluate.
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As much as people rightfully complain about DBD and criticise the developers, making an asymmetrical PvP game is unbelievably hard to do, and there's a reason why almost all asymm PvP games died off really early.
I don't see a lot of people wanting to risk an attempt on this market and I don't think there's much that can really hinder DbD's control of it. Short of them fully torpedoing their own game, DbD is just here to stay.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660653#Comment_2660653
He mentioned a guy getting downed and then a free escape for DS, so it's one of several issues brought up.
But the fact it became a 4e was pretty much purely down to greed, nothing else.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660648#Comment_2660648
There is zero counterplay to DS in the exit gate.
Yeah, but that wasn't the real issue here, was it?
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You're telling me you played greedy, mismanaged your targeting, and failed to successfully basement camp?
Yeah, it really would be fairer if basement hooks just allowed you to instantly kill whoever's on it, right?
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
No perk should take away an entire killers tracking power, permanently, with zero counter play
I don't know if DbD is supposed to be balanced around blind people...