Firellius
Firellius
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2656832#Comment_2656832
That wouldn't really fix gen speed, it would make it worse.
It's actually really good strategy to have each survivor on different gen, because that is way harder to stop them.
It would get 3-gen way harder tho.
Big problem imo are spawns, because you can get spawn where each survivor is on different gen from start and there is not much killer can do about that. Survivors should always spawn together.
I think it's a big problem that 'every survivor on their own gen' is both the safest and fastest option. The co-op speed penalty should be changed from -15/-30/-45% to +15/+15/+15%, with base gen time increased accordingly. That'd make pressuring gens easier and would make it more worthwhile to put a survivor on the hook.
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@clowninabout said:
Do survivors ever feel a bit silly when they've brought the full on boring meta build with purple flashlights and bm'd a killer throught the match. Only to find at the end the killer was a beginner or only had a couple of tier 1 perks?
I never did, because I never ran meta, or BMd a killer.
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It's going to be really difficult to make 'fun' and 'high MMR' in any way compatible. Given enough time, players will optimise the fun out of a game.
Best thing to do, IMO, is make a bunch of 'mandatory' perks baseline. Innate gen regression perks and innate anti-camp, anti-tunnel, anti-slug.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2655211#Comment_2655211
This is legitimate criticism, not just crying. If you completed too many gens as survivor and that made you have a chance to not be able to escape, you'd be complaining too.
What do you think a 'three gen' is?
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@Bullettimegod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2654203#Comment_2654203
Youre kidding right? You can't be this dense.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2654207#Comment_2654207
I mean...if you wanna use that argument same can be said about the pop nerf. Litetal counter to noed is to do bones. Dont know where bones are? Bring a map. Dont want to? Bring small game. Dont want to? Bring detectives Hunch. Dont want to? Bring counter force. Dont want to? Well come to the forums and complain.
Your counter argument: you hate old ds? Bring a whole other killer. And you think thats a good logical argument? Really?
Just to clarify, you actually believe, that to argue against bringing a perk. Against noed. When killers are supposed to be the power role. In an asymmetrical horror game. Is the same as bring a killer to counter an offensive weapon. That gave survivors 60 seconds of do what i want. Which is almost equal to the star in mario. Is a good logical counter argument?
Ps. The counterplay to noed. Is to do bones. Perks and items make it easier. But you can still do them with out it (:
Your counter argument: you hate old ds? Bring a whole other killer. And you think thats a good logical argument? Really?
No, I don't. That's exactly the point.
Just to clarify, you actually believe, that to argue against bringing a perk. Against noed. When killers are supposed to be the power role. In an asymmetrical horror game. Is the same as bring a killer to counter an offensive weapon. That gave survivors 60 seconds of do what i want. Which is almost equal to the star in mario. Is a good logical counter argument?
Trying to argue anything about a 'power role' is completely useless when that term is entirely undefined. I see it thrown around a lot on the forums, but most people seem to think that it means that the killer should just have the odds stacked in their favour, IE: They should be OP.
And yes, bringing a perk or bringing a killer is the same -principle-: It's restricting build variety and personal choice to band-aid bad design.
Yes, you can do totems without perks and maps. But you could also circumvent old DS by slugging or avoiding.
'That's so inefficient though!'
So's trying to do five totems without intel perks.
ALSO
@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653909#Comment_2653909
"I'm sure there will be enough and if this perk gets used less it can only be a good thing for this game and for all killer players"
wait what ? All I can glean from this is that you want to give the survivors an advantage, as do many other users here.
I also would like to point out the following once again. Whether totems have been made or not. It doesn't matter if all 5 or only 1 totem is left. If noed is active and the survivors are caught, then the survivors made a mistake in the end game. That is simply a fact and cannot be refuted. It does not matter if solo or swf. The result is always the same and a totem counter function in the UI doesn't matter, on the contrary: it would weaken noed (e.g. also the surprise effect), because the survivors automatically go searching for totems just to turn off this perk. Who would like to take noed ? Is simply no longer worth it
Certain perks and items are designed specifically for solo play. ppl should accept that, and if they don't like it.... play swf
Whether totems have been made or not. It doesn't matter if all 5 or only 1 totem is left
This also states, bluntly, that the 'counter' of doing bones is at least 80% bull.
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@Bullettimegod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653607#Comment_2653607
Difference between noed and ds is night and day. Noed doesnt prevent the game from moving forward. Infact you could literally stop noed from ever happening in the first place. Ds on the other hand was used as an offensive weapon in the killers face. Including doing gens right in the killer face forcing him to grab you just to stop you from doing a gen. Not to mention the free unhook you can do at hooks because of ds. The difference between them, besides one being a hex and can he removed from the game entirely before it even procs vs. One who can literally stop a killer in their tracks and be forced upon the killer. It was literally 60 seconds of "i do what i want". So yea good job on your strawman argument.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653826#Comment_2653826
Oh dude i know. It would seem in this thread, they want everything handed to them. Even when there is tools they can bring to never get hit with noed again.
That's not the point.
The point is that the argument of 'just bring map/SG' is a terrible one that could also be used to justify reverting the DS nerf, despite that perk being broken as all hell.
'Just play PH, 4head'
There need to be counterplay options, not counterpicks.
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'Survivors should offer themselves up to be killed, instead of doing objectives' is the new most forum killer main thing I've seen this week.
And it's got competition.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653929#Comment_2653929
Don't try to cleanse all totems. Cleanse the hard ones/ the ones near the exit gate and remember where the easy ones are.
Cleansing one totem and remembering 2 of the others already has a 50% chance of finding noed. Without any input from you team and a 14 second cleanse from you
Yeah, provided you don't get stuck in a chase.
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Nothing's worse than clearing four totems by yourself and then getting one-hit-killed by NOED.
It needs a rework.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653556#Comment_2653556
DS was changes because it allowed one side to progress the game while the other side was unable to progress a portion of theirs for the duration.
NOED does not do this, and anyone trying to compare them is grasping at straws.
You are missing the point.
The point is that counterpicking was an option for old DS. So if that still got nerfed, then the argument of 'you can counterpick NOED' doesn't hold any weight.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653563#Comment_2653563
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653590#Comment_2653590
- that Noed is stronger against solo players is normal. That it is "too strong" is not true.
- Whether someone tells you the locations by voice or you track them down using perks or map offers comes down to the same thing.
- is the advantage of swf, but you can also do it alone, with a lot of tools
- if no totem was made and noed is active, you still have enough time to go searching. But if you get caught, it's your own fault.
Everything has advantages and disadvantages. Just because you have voice chat in a SWF doesn't mean it's easier to play against Noed.
In what way would it not be easier to play against NOED when you have voice comms? You are really grasping at straws here, bud.
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@fogdonkey said:
The main problem with NoED is that it is too strong against solos, and weak against swf.
SWFs:
- Can tell each other the totem locations.
- Can keep track of how many totems were destroyed.
- Can efficiently do a totem search if NoED becomes active.
- They don't even have to cleanse totems if they remember the locations and tell each other.
I wouldn't say it's the main problem, but it's a big one, definitely. It helps widen the gulf between solo and swiffer and makes balancing harder.
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@Bullettimegod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2653510#Comment_2653510
Yea? Then it sounds like just complaining then. There is counters. If you dont wanna counter it, then thats their problem. Then they shouldnt complain about it. Mind as well just get rid of all items and perks at that point. No point in builds. Or items. Give every survivor the same perks. Right? Do you see how that sounds? Pretty stupid right?
Yes ive read it. And i still think those people are stupid and wanna complain to complain. Idk. Easy solutions, yet for some reason no one wants to do it.
Now about your phead comment. How old ds we talking here? Because there is a counter to ds. Dont tunnel. But the difference between that ds im sure you talking about is killers literally couldnt do ######### to survivors for 60 seconds. Where as noed is extremely counterable. Apples and oranges. Good try tho.
Now about your phead comment. How old ds we talking here? Because there is a counter to ds. Dont tunnel. But the difference between that ds im sure you talking about is killers literally couldnt do [BAD WORD] to survivors for 60 seconds. Where as noed is extremely counterable. Apples and oranges. Good try tho.
Killers could do something about old DS.
They could play PH.
Just bring PH, 4head.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652694#Comment_2652694
Where should there be a problem? Whether you take an item or a perk for totems..... Let's say you want to take something other than a map add on. Feel free to do so but don't complain if you don't want to take anything else useful for finding totems ?!
Imagine if there was a totem counter in the user interface. Whether swf's or solo, everyone would automatically know how many totems are active. Survivors would automatically go looking for them. I would then argue: Noed is history. There would be no reason to use this Perk anymore.
"So weakens a lot of perks"? It's literally only NOED that it affects." ???
Literally? It doesn't. It would also take away an important feature of the "Small Game Perk", for example.
Again, same could've been said for old DS: You can just bring PH, so don't complain about a survivor being literally untargetable for a full minute by a perk that's obviously busted.
Imagine if there was a totem counter in the user interface. Whether swf's or solo, everyone would automatically know how many totems are active. Survivors would automatically go looking for them. I would then argue: Noed is history. There would be no reason to use this Perk anymore.
NOED would still not be history, since it would still be in the same position it is now: Slowdown, free kill, or both. NOED doesn't do nothing if all five totems are gone, since NOED was the only reason that all those totems are gone in the first place. Even if it doesn't net you the free kill, it's still a powerful slowdown perk, possibly outperforming other perks like Dying Light or Thanatophobia.
Literally? It doesn't. It would also take away an important feature of the "Small Game Perk", for example.
Small Game worked for years without the totem counter and it was still a viable pick back then, so I don't see why that would change. Just having a totem counter won't help you find the totems, it'll just help you identify whether you should bother with the totems at all.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652706#Comment_2652706
Because that has nothing to do with NOED. And old DS is not even relavant.
It does in that it adresses the 'just use Small Game' argument.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652697#Comment_2652697
That doesn’t make any sense.
Why not? PH, by default, can circumvent DS.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652352#Comment_2652352
If NOED is enough of an issue to open threads, then people should consider changing their load out and/or playstyle.
Imagine if people had that attitude about old DS and told people to just suck it up and only play PH.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652267#Comment_2652267
Solo xp is the best you can have. ( trust me i have over 6400h and I only play solo ) and there are many things ( example: OH HI, HELLO MAP ITEMS ) you can take with you to track down totems. Always just assuming the worst case scenario doesn't cut it. It's enough if every survivor makes 1-2 totems. Also, it happens very often that solos are matched with 2s 3s swf's. To say that such perks are a totem tax I think is wrong. Each perk is designed for certain situations. A UI totemconter is unnecessary, weakens many Perks and makes them less attractive.
The problem is that 'you can just bring X' makes the game about counterpicking, not counterplaying. You could make a similar argument about old DS: 'Just bring Pyramid Head!'.
'Well, what if I don't want to play PH?'
Similarly, what if I want to bring a medkit, or toolbox? What if I don't want to bring Small Game for a feature that only serves to counter NOED?
Also, 'weakens many perks'? It's literally only NOED that it affects.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652260#Comment_2652260
I find it interesting that you picked multiple points of mine in your response there but ignored my conclusion, which is still my conclusion here: the response to that unfairness is to announce NOED sooner, because that is the only part of the perk that is actually unfair in any way at all.
You said it yourself: The viewpoint of the one sucker who got hit is important. That's the problem area, nothing else about the perk can reasonably said to be unfair specifically because it's honestly not a very strong perk. It can be blocked from ever activating, it can be turned off once it does, and it's worthless if survivors just leave the trial as quickly as possible after seeing it activate.
If NOED is announced as soon as it triggers, rather than as soon as someone is hit by it, that'll give everyone the ability to employ its counterplay, rather than just everyone except the one guy who got hit.
That's the problem area, nothing else about the perk can reasonably said to be unfair specifically because it's honestly not a very strong perk.
I think that that's where I disagree with you. Balance and design aren't inextricably linked, and just because something is balanced, doesn't mean it's 'fair'. Imagine a killer that cannot injure survivors at all, but once the fifth gen is done, he automatically teleports to one random survivor and moris them.
It'd be the weakest killer, and also the most unfair.
So just because NOED isn't necessarily OP, doesn't mean it's immediately fair. It's still a perk that pays off too much for too little, with too little, too unintuitive, and too unrewarding counterplay.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652027#Comment_2652027
I remember well when I started with DBD in 2016 and noed was not yet a totemperk. So I would rule out noed as a basekit. If you want a totem counter as a solo player, then play with "Small Game".
Speaking of totem counter: it would not only give solo players a big advantage, but also buff swf since you can't balance solo and swf separately. Noed would also have too much counterplay. Give me a reason to take noed then. Does not make sense
A totem counter is the one thing that doesn't buff swiffers, since it's information that most swiffers will readily share between them. It's unbelievably easy to tell your teammate how many totems you did, the literal only requirements are that you know how to count and can communicate to them.
'Then why would I take NOED?'
Because it still forces survivors to spend a crapton of time on dismantling it, or they give you a free kill, or both.
'Just take small game!'
That's called perk tax and it's why survivors all run DS/BT/UB.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2651757#Comment_2651757
I'm following most of your argument here, though I am noticing a few things I don't think are strictly true? I don't think it's me being pedantic, either, it actually is pretty relevant. For instance:
"[Devour] has a longer wind up" flat out isn't true, you get three stacks of Devour much quicker than you get any value out of NOED unless the match is going tremendously poorly for you. That's part of the balance of NOED- it takes more effort to prevent before it takes hold, but that's because it takes much longer to take hold than Devour does.
" It doesn't help that Devour Hope is traceable, while NOED is only declared once it's too late to counter it." also isn't true, neither side of it. Devour Hope doesn't announce itself until someone's hit after the third stack is gained, exactly the same as NOED, and someone being hit with NOED is by no means too late to counter it. You don't actually have to "do bones", which I agree is an obnoxious and unhelpful meme, you can just take note of where the bones are and sprint to go check those areas once you've seen NOED spawn, if and only if you want to linger in the trial instead of employing the other counter, which is to just leave instead of going for a save.
So, with those two things combined, the wider argument is a lot weaker, in my opinion. You don't have to cleanse every single totem if you don't have any separate reason to do that, because you can absolutely go cleanse NOED after it procs so long as you're not the guy that got hit. From that perspective, NOED is no more OP than any other hex perk, if it spawns out in the open somewhere you can deal with it instantly and if it doesn't then the killer is given a little more time to try and secure some kills, which is the point of an endgame perk to begin with.
From where I'm sitting, there's only one problem- there's only one angle from which "it isn't announced until it's too late" is actually true, and that's if you're the unlucky SOB who gets hit by it. Rather than the full reworks people are suggesting, all that's required is to make NOED announce its presence as the last generator is completed so the first guy doesn't just get unlucky and get hit by it.
You're right that this perk isn't OP. It's not even really that good, it just rewards survivors running into it instead of employing the same tactics that work against any other endgame perk- hide, and with the added benefit of being able to go turn it off far quicker than any other endgame perk.
"[Devour] has a longer wind up" flat out isn't true, you get three stacks of Devour much quicker than you get any value out of NOED unless the match is going tremendously poorly for you.
Yeah, that was a mislabelling on my part, I was more referring to the fact that Devour Hope actually has to be built up by the killer's efforts.
That's part of the balance of NOED- it takes more effort to prevent before it takes hold, but that's because it takes much longer to take hold than Devour does.
That does depend mostly on the performance of both sides, though. A slow killer or fast survivors can make NOED pop faster than Devour Hope.
Devour Hope doesn't announce itself until someone's hit after the third stack is gained
I didn't say it declares itself, I said it's traceable. NOED has no signalling of any kind before it takes effect, but Devour Hope does have an immediate effect: It lights up a totem. And even before reaching three stacks, it does get a little tell at two stacks, when its first effect comes into play.
and someone being hit with NOED is by no means too late to counter it.
It is for that someone getting hit, in most cases. They'll be stuck on the hook and unable to do anything. They might be able to get rescued if the other survivors can find and destroy the totem, but they have to do so with a 4% bonus speed killer with instadowns breathing down their necks.
You don't have to cleanse every single totem if you don't have any separate reason to do that, because you can absolutely go cleanse NOED after it procs so long as you're not the guy that got hit.
But that's the issue: When talking about design, we also have to consider the viewpoint of the one sucker that takes the hit. And for that one sucker, this perk is the most unfair thing in existence. Even if it's not OP by any metric, it's still ruinous to the overall gameplay.
A rework is exactly what NOED needs.
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@jesterkind said:
I have a question for the people who think that NOED is unfair and that cleansing it/doing bones isn't a reasonable counter to it - and I'll even ignore the other counter of just leaving as soon as you see it pop up for the sake of this question.
What makes NOED unfair and undeserved where Devour Hope isn't? They both have extremely similar effects- everyone is Exposed, and NOED has the added benefit of increasing your speed because it's only going to activate in the endgame whereas Devour's extra strength is in the mori capability if you build it up further. Both require you to play a portion of the game with only three perks, both can be undone at any time by the survivor...
Why is NOED the subject of all this debate where Devour isn't?
I'm glad you're bringing that comparison up, because I think it illustrates the issue with NOED quite nicely.
While Devour Hope is potentially far more devastating, it also has a longer wind-up and requires the killer to put in considerable effort to get the majority of the perk's value. Additionally, it is vulnerable for the entire duration, with a single totem (Or two, if the killer brings Undying) carrying the entire weight of the perk. This means that the counterplay to this perk is to seek and destroy that one totem.
So to get value out of Devour Hope, the killer has to get multiple hooks and not camp, and then find a survivor after getting sufficient stacks. And to stop Devour Hope, survivors have to find and destroy one totem, which is available from the start of the match.
Compare to NOED...
To get value out of NOED, the killer has to find a survivor after the fifth gen is finished. And to stop NOED, survivors have to either find and destroy all five totems before the perk becomes active, or find the hex totem after the perk is active.
There's a general concept in game design for both effort/reward and risk/reward, and in both categories, NOED has a massively superior ratio compared to Devour Hope. NOED takes zero effort to put into work and has a far lower risk factor due to having way harder counterplay. Both ultimately offer the same kind of benefit, although Devour Hope can snowball on to be even stronger. It doesn't help that Devour Hope is traceable, while NOED is only declared once it's too late to counter it.
NOED's problem isn't with it being OP, it's just an awfully designed perk.
The fact that it's undeclared until it's too late adds to the weakness of the counterplay. If you do manage to clear all five bones, and the killer didn't have NOED, that counterplay just ended up making NOED -stronger-, since it did a better job of slowing the survivors down than Thanatophobia probably could've done, and without even occupying a slot.
@Sakurra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2651610#Comment_2651610
Because I don't agree with you that means nothing. I'm survivor main and I have no problem with noed. No swf as you think. I'm not crying over things like others. This game is very hard as killer anyway and you are asking to nerf killer's perks lol
And that's another thing that needs to be pointed out: The thread is called 'NOED needs a -rework-', not 'NOED needs a nerf'.
With NOED's biggest issues just being garbage design, a rework wouldn't necessarily make it weaker. Imagine, for example...
- NOED is now baseline.
- NOED's effect scales off of totems left standing, as opposed to firing at full force off of any remaining totem. At one totem remaining, the killer gets a 5% movespeed boost. At 2, all survivors are exposed. At 3, the killer breaks pallets 100% faster and windows block after one in-chase fast vault. At 4, the killer can see the aura of all survivors within 16 meters. At 5, the exits are blocked.
- Survivors now have a baseline totem counter.
Aside from the fact that this rework wouldn't work as long as camping is an option (Which is another big problem with NOED, its counterplay is mutually exclusive with that of facecamping), this rework would make NOED stronger, but also make the counterplay WAY more fair. Every totem you break WILL, 100%, without fail, hinder NOED. You won't get punished for breaking four totems and accidentally shunting NOED into a godspawn, you won't have to struggle with the whole 'I can't do it by myself, but I can't tell if any of my teammates will help me' aspect of totem hunting in solo queue, and you won't have to worry that you're breaking totems for absolutely zero pay-off.
The whole discussion around NOED just got massively bogged down by the dumbass meme of 'do bones', to the point where no one seems to even give this perk a second thought, or even a first one.
@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2651638#Comment_2651638
Think ghostface gave a good comment about it.
But the fun thing is that when a survivor is told to just do bones (which they should as it's a secondary objective), they get pissed by it for being told that.
But with boons i see survivors say the exact same thing, and boons are even stronger than hexes, as it can completely remove auras, remove scratchmarks, faster healing or even healing without items, and then you get that new boon that gives unlimited unbreakable.
But sure let the killers just do bones 😂
That's also the point of survivors saying 'do bones' to killers. The answer is just as inane, useless and ill-thought-out as saying 'do bones' to a solo survivor complaining about NOED. Survivors put up with it for years, now they're mocking it when it's the killer's turn.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2651638#Comment_2651638
Your problem isnt noed, but your teammates
You know the whole 'swiffer is OP' thing?
Part of the reason is because of things like NOED, severely hurting solo queue while being mostly inert in Swiffer queue. It's not an isolated problem, it's affected more than just its own little segment.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2651624#Comment_2651624
You just don’t wanna take the time and do totems.
Imma be blunt: No, I don't.
Because in the vast majority of cases, the effort invested into 'doing bones' is not actually going to counter NOED. You're more likely to make NOED stronger than to counter it by doing bones.
This is as someone who runs DetHunch most of the time: Doing bones does NOT work, unless your teammates are carrying.
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Bold of you to assume the devs have any power over the profanity filter!
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@GentlemanFridge said:
About the totem counter currently tied to Small Game, what if it appeared in the HUD just like the killer sees their hook count?
Now, yes, if would buff SWF as well, but I’d say that’s a necessary evil. It bridges the ‘totem gap’ between soloes and SWFs far more than nerfing SWF ever will.
Buffs are better than nerfs.
It wouldn't buff Swiffer. This is one of the few things that swiffers can communicate extremely easily. If one guy did two totems and another did one, all they have to do is declare how many totems they cleared and they can work out there's two left.
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@Maliken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2650056#Comment_2650056
I wouldn't mind if snuffing them would permanently disable them the same way Hex totems do. But snuffing Boons isn't 'doing bones'.
No no, context doesn't matter, only 'do bones'.
Also, you can't complain until you've cleansed one survivor's boon five times over. Just snuffing one isn't enough.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
It most likely is a bug
I think it's more likely an oversight.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647796#Comment_2647796
Poorly designed perk, problems....that's all I read. Honestly ? this, is a pretty lazy excuse
If you're not interested in discussing this matter, why bother making this topic?
If you can't think of anything to say against it, just say 'good points' and move on. It's really not that bad to just say 'I was wrong'.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649193#Comment_2649193
I mean, I already said Nurse was an exception, and Pinhead's chains have a similar thing if the portals are positioned right. Though they can be dodged after that.
... you know, the two characters who are basically standing as an exception to see power being used -> then react. Probably because I've been watching a lot of PH stuff too; very reliant on the survivor making a mistake to hit.
But it extends to all other killers, too.
Ask any MOBA player: Getting hit with skillshots isn't 'heavily in the target's control'. Yeah, dodging is a thing, but so is predictive aim. Grandmaster League players will still get hits in on other grandmaster League players, in disregard of their target making no mistakes.
@SunsetSherbet said:
Because the design philosophy is that the survivor should always have a chance to escape even if they are a vastly worse player. Skill doesn't factor in a ton anymore due to how behavior continues to design this game. As a skilled killer, you can and will lose to people far worse than you simply due to the games various issues, quirks, RNG etc. As a survivor, all your looping skills are kind of redundant because the guy who just holds W and drops pallets is probably wasting the killers time more than you, and literally anyone with functioning limbs could do it. There's no point trying to become skilled at this game. If you try to become skilled at a killer who is skill intensive, they'll just get gutted eventually. And if you try to become a smart survivor, it doesn't matter against 80% of the killer cast because the correct and most effective strategy for survivors in 2021 involves holding W as you lead the killer from one side of the map to the next and then back again.
You can become skilled in this game but there's no point because skill isn't rewarded, and tons of "Oh you made a booboo? We'll fix that!" mechanics and perks exist to boost people who are far worse than others.
Because the design philosophy is that the survivor should always have a chance to escape even if they are a vastly worse player.
If they dodge your shot, they're not 'vastly worse', are they?
'Why are survivors allowed to dodge my attacks?' has to be the most forum killer main thing I've ever seen.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649159#Comment_2649159
Ah, but then you can dodge the Pinhead chains if they're anything other than right on top of you.
What I mean, is that it seems like so many of the skills are dependent upon leaving room for the survivor to react after it's been committed to. i.e. the actual outcome is heavily pushed into the survivor's control.
It's not 'heavily pushed into the survivor's control'. Least of all with Nurse and Pinhead. A good killer will still land relatively consistently.
It's just that survivors have a way of interacting with the power so they have something to do, as opposed to being better off just AFKing.
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What, you want to stay under hook to wipe that totem?
All right, but don't complain about tunnelling when the inevitable happens.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647576#Comment_2647576
That's an awfully big blanket statement, and those don't tend to help anyone
Would you like clarification? I'll quote a post I made on an older topic
NOED's big 'counter' is doing all five totems, but there's already problems with that: Doing five totems takes a hell of a long time, and since NOED isn't declared until gen 5 is done, there's a chance that survivors do five totems only to have the killer not bring NOED, making it a strong slowdown perk without costing a perk slot, which is inherently busted.
Then there's the issue of it taking all five totems being down to fail to fire, which widens the Swiffer/Solo gap and adds to balancing issues, since solos have no way of communicating where they've busted totems and how many totems are left, or even IF they're doing totems.
Then there's the issue of it being 'all or nothing', where doing 4 totems has zero impact on how powerful NOED is when it fires.
Then there's the issue of 'if you do the four totems you CAN find, NOED is going to the one totem you CAN'T find', technically making NOED stronger by investing in the counter.
And then there's the whole 'If the killer camps on first hook, just genrush and leave' combined with 'You shouldn't have genrushed, you deserve to be hit with NOED'.
Overall, it is the worst designed perk in the game and while it doesn't need to be outright deleted, it needs a very invasive rework to be made a functional and healthy part of the game. It'll be hard to make it not benefit facecampers, but the issue there lies with the facecamping more so than with NOED, to be fair.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647518#Comment_2647518
That's what most people overlook with noed. It isn't there to be a strong endgame perk in most cases, it's intended as the stick to motivate survivors to spend time doing something other than gens. It has to be a threatening perk or people ignore totems.
However most survivors see it as "how dare I have to actually adapt my gameplay to a perk" while killers are juggling 16 second chances that they have to play around.
The way NOED currently works, it incentivises -not- doing totems more.
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@Seraphor said:
Hex perks are high risk high reward, and NOED is the highest they get.
Is that balanced? I guess, but it's not usually 'fair' for whichever side gets the short end.
Too much risk, too much reward.
I'm not a fan of Hex perks in general for this very reason. I think they could all do with a rework that scales according to how many totems remain, 0-5 levels of relative strength.
How this could apply to NOED? Have the number of totems snapshotted when the final gen is done, you get that many tokens, survivors are exposed as long as you have at least 1 token, attacks consume a token. Once you have your tokens they're yours to spend and any further cleansing has no effect, so survivors have to get their bones done before the final gen.
I think part of NOED's problem is that, unlike other hex perks, it actually -isn't- high risk. If NOED doesn't fire, that means it slowed survivors down by a ton since they had to get all the totems.
At worst, it's a great slowdown perk. At best, it's a great slowdown perk -and- free kills.
Which is another problem with the 'do bones' argument. The first four totems just make NOED stronger, it's only the last one that does anything to counter it.
It's just an awfully designed perk and needs to be overhauled.
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@Beaburd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646879#Comment_2646879
The Dead Hard validation gives killers false positives for hits, similar to how pre-validation Dead Hard gave survivors false positives through exhaustion.
It's fine and dandy to say "it was just fixed, no preferential treatment was given." But while it was fixed in the sense of having the server make the call, it did shift the burden of false positives to the killer side.
On the subject of fixing issues, one could also mention that killers have been waiting for grab validation to be a thing since pallet hit validation. They've also been waiting years for the sound bug on downed survivors to get fixed.
So to be fair, it's understandable to have some thought of preferential treatment towards survivors overall and even in this case in some regard, even though the change itself was justifiable.
That's a misunderstanding of how this thing works. Dead Hard giving a false positive to survivors is still possible, it's just that it's hardly ever going to happen because survivors were never -that- greedy with their DH.
I will say though that the false positives are a critical issue that needs to be addressed immediately, since it is a server issue that can fully impact the game in unfair ways, like a Nemesis tentacle not shattering a pallet that it would've hit if it didn't hit the survivor.
Grab validation also doesn't work that way, because the killer is always last-to-act. And if you act fast enough to where the server receives your grab before it receives the survivor's interruption of said grab, it won't look like a validation on your end, it'll just look like a clean grab.
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@anarchy753 said:
My favourite part was:
"Oops, we added super overpowered perks, and didn't even check that the mechanic to snuff them actually worked, so we're making it work but YOU BETTER BE GODDAMN GRATEFUL WE BOTHERED TO EVEN TEMPORARILY FIX IT."
And taking Dead Hard, realising it had a server-based issue for survivors and going "well, let's just move all the issues to the killer players instead of fixing them. Done!"
Anyone who plays both sides knows Dead Hard is still as broken as it was before, except now it's the killer player that has to deal with the bugs, and apparently that's their idea of solving it.
In regards to Dead Hard validation: it didn't 'move the issue to the killer side', it just stripped the killer of preferential treatment.
The server is now the solitary arbiter, as opposed to the killer's client. The killer no longer gets a benefit off their own latency.
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Camping and tunnelling. Lodestones of balance issues.
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I'll just short-quote this stuff to organise it better.
Chilling Presence
I'm Glad both of you like it, except for the "Chattering Teeth" sound, but hear me out, because we also currently have: Iron Will, Lucky Break, Shadow Step, Calm Spirit, Dance With Me, Deception, Distortion, Off the Record, Poised, and I'm sure I've missed a few more here, but the BOTTOM LINE is that all of these perks defeat the core mechanics ways that a killer has to track survivors... Sounds, Scratch marks, and Aura. The whole reason this perk was made was to counter 2 of the 3 ways to track them by giving both a visual (visible breath) and an audio queue (chattering Teeth) to killers in order to have a chance against anyone running any of the plethora of anti-tracking perks.
Out of the perks listed, the only one that sees any continued usage is Iron Will, and the only reason that's a problem right now is due to a bug where it does more than it should. Most other perks are either completely unreliable (Dance With Me, Deception, Poised), have almost no effect (Distortion, Calm Spirit) or have a very steep price for activation (Iron Will, Lucky Break, Off the Record). There's no reason to sweep all of these perks off the table, and the biggest reason for that is in the last line I quoted here: Just because you can't see blood trails or scratch marks, or can't hear a survivor's breathing doesn't mean you are helpless. They're harder to track but they're not invisible, not even close. This is particularly the case with Dance With Me and Deception and the primary reason why they don't get used: They're incredibly difficult to use since you still need to perfectly stay out of killer's LoS, which is incredibly difficult to do when you can't see the killer.
They don't need a counterperk making them completely useless on top of being mediocre to bad.
Currently the ONLY killer who does this by design is Plague
This is also incorrect. Nemesis' infection causes survivors to cough as well and his zombies help track survivors, Doctor is all about intel, Pinhead can hear chain hunts, and survivors leave an extra trail when affected with Pyramid Head's torment. The Artist also has built-in tracking.
Hex: Griefs Due
At maximum this only Disables 2 perks at random from each survivor, 1 for each hook they receive, as long as it remains standing. The more survivors affected, the more totems light up and have to be cleansed, with a maximum of 5 but only after 2 survivors have been sacrificed, and the more hex perks the killer brings in the less possible Hex: GD totems can spawn. We're talking about a game that has 16 perks spread out among 4 survivors vs. 4 perks on 1 killer. The concept behind this was simple: Reward the killer by temporarily nerfing the survivors ability to escape them by lowering the amount of perks available.
The problem with this is that it can break out to an extremely frustrating level. Imagine getting pulled off the hook and tunnelled down, only to find out that this hex has stolen your DS and given the killer free reign to tunnel. Pure RNG just handing the killer an easy victory isn't fun.
This perk also strongly discourages any kind of synergistic builds. Sure, you could take For the People with Vigil, Inner Strength and some totem-hunting perk, but then what happens when any of those perks gets disabled? Suddenly your entire build concept is crippled. At that point, you might as well go back to the boring old meta build.
It's also just not fun. The killer won't get any feedback in 99% of cases (You won't know what's blocked because the effect can't show itself), and the survivors just get a kick in the shins.
Used and Abused
Not gonna lie, this was originally created as a direct response to Appraisal. Given that All chest looting perks have been buffed by the devs recently, I felt the killers needed at least SOMETHING to keep the survivors from grabbing the most powerful items in the game from chests, at full charges, during a match. While this is rather Niche, it's still a decent way of countering the surprise Purple or Red Keys at the endgame, and considering that Built To Last recently got updated so that only killers using Franklin's Demise have any chance of countering them... I felt this could see at least some usage.
The reason they got buffed is because they were worthless. Take it from a guy who has a dumpster diver build on David: Whatever you pull out of the chest is ONLY worth the time it took to get it if it's a godroll item.
And with keys being nerfed to oblivion, that's a chunk of the loot table that's been decapitated. This perk is just not needed. And I'm actually rethinking the idea of this being a fine idea, because, just like the last one, the killer won't get any feedback, but it's a kick in the shins for survivors.
Head of the House
6 out of a possible 20-30 pallets spawning in on a map that will break the moment they are thrown down, is NOT broken! Unlike Freddy's dream pallets, Not only do these pallets still have the power to stun the killer, but the choice for their placement is completely random. Yeah you may get a few games wherein 1 or 2 god pallets are affected, but overall that's very unlikely. All this perk does is give the killer knowledge on where a pallet is and to respect it if they want the hit, or reduce the amount of useful pallets on the map by 6, otherwise it's not that big of a deal for most maps... Especially where The Game, or Blood Lodge are concerned. Come on guys, I like you, but lets be realistic about this. I don't feel that 6 is too much, but I'm willing to go down to 4, just give me a good enough reason to.
Pallets vary wildly in value, so that 4/6 could vary drastically in impact in the match. Sure, it can get that pallet in the undercroft of the big building in the swamp, but it could also cripple the shack pallet.
But aside from that, it's completely random, and that's a huge problem. It's just a random chance for a survivor to get downed when using a pallet, and that's not going to be good to stomach. There's a perk that does this, but it trades off by requiring the killer to give up precious time earlier to use it. This one giving six uses of that perk without ANY drawback is pretty wild.
Special Treatment
By design this is intended to make the survivor HATE being the obsession as much as possible, instead of how this status is currently treated. Regardless it still gives them an out to pass part of their suffering onto others. Think about the game "Hot Potato" or "Tag", while you have the obsession status, you can receive a multitude of downsides, but it's all dependent on how often the killer hits you vs. how often you rescue another survivor. If you go the whole game as the Obsession, never rescue anyone, and get hooked 2x and hit once, at most you'll have 5 negative status effects (depending upon the healing meta), of which a few can be removed by survivor actions (Mangled, Hemorrhage) or by being hooked (Exhaustion). When you unhook another survivor however, you give them 3 randomly picked negative status effects as well as the Obsession status, and free yourself from them. There are only 11 negative status perks that can be acquired, and 2 of them, Exposed and Broken, might as well be the same thing, while most of the others are negligible to you, so overall 10 possible, 3 that can be solved with survivor intervention or the hooked status, and 7 that are only mild annoyances. Also, as with all Obsession Perks, the effects leave the moment the obsession dies, so adding in the fact that you can reset all of this punishment by unhooking someone else and letting them deal with the problem, AND disappears completely once the current obsession is dead... I don't see how this is bad enough to deserve a complete "NOPE" from both of you.
Your interpretation of status effects is completely wrong.
To start off with: Exposed and Broken aren't the same, since the latter is considerably worse. Injured survivors are easier to track, after all, and broken also blocks certain other perks from working, like Solidarity and Second Wind.
But those 7 'mild annoyances' include such things as 'not getting a terror radius anymore', or 'moving slower', or 'LITERALLY CAN'T PROGRESS THE GAME ANYMORE'. Those aren't 'mild annoyances', those are crippling debuffs that you want to make PERMANENT. There's no way to do this. Imagine the first hit you get on your obsession marks them with Incapacitated! You INSTANTLY win the game at that point, since that's a whole-ass survivor immediately unable to help their team in any way at all, with no way to recover.
But even if you took that specific element out, a permanent oblivious would be a complete nightmare, and permanent hindered would be an excessive amount of slowdown, since that survivor would not just be a sitting duck in a chase, they'd also take ages to move around the map.
And you might say 'hot potato' and want the obsession to make a rescue, but what if the killer just decides to tunnel the guy out ASAP? You can eat the DS, he's not going anywhere with that permanent Hindered on him. Provided he even gets a chase because he's perma-broken and oblivious, so he can't see/hear you coming and dies in one hit.
Draining Touch
This only affects healthy survivors, and only for 15 seconds for the Hindered status which follows the default of -15% movement speed or 3.85 m/s for survivors for 15 seconds.
15 seconds is still a very long duration for an effect that makes them unable to run or loop, though. And the activation condition is extremely mild as well. It just doesn't work on specials. That's it.
Hex: Domination
So, even with it's Hex status, the chances of it decimating the pallet population on the map is honestly pretty damn low.
It doesn't need to. Survivors have no use for a pallet that's on the other side of the map. If you down someone and hook them in the area you just neatly excised all pallets from, that's putting them in an awful position. If you want to tunnel, you already know that the immediate area of the hook is cleared of pallets and possibly a dead zone.
Pulsating Fear
This was directly made to add a Sound queue for killers to follow in the event a survivor brings in perks like Lucky Break and Iron Will.
This is pretty much the same thing as Chilling Presence, and all the same arguments apply. It's countering perks that don't need to be countered. Iron Will just needs bugfixing.
Camp Light
I could go into the fact that all this does is reveal a survivor in an area for about 2 seconds, and has a maximum usefulness of revealing how long a survivor has been on a gen, but overall, you honestly won't see any better gameplay than what current gen protection and information perks like Surveillance and Tinkerer already provide. Especially considering that one of the recent updates made it so that a survivor working on a gen counts as being crouched, and thus unaffected by this perk while working on a gen. Sure this has it's advantages, but honestly i never thought that anyone would consider it an OP perk, much less one that deserves a flat out NO from the community.
It's not the gen defence aspect that's the problem here. The issue is plopping this thing on a hooked survivor and getting early intel on when someone is going for the rescue and where they evacuate to. This is a camper's/tunneler's perk, and those are playstyles that need to be excised, not encouraged.
Tunnel Network
The devs were the first to introduce the idea of a "Keep Away" mechanic when they altered The Executioners Cage mechanic to put survivors as far away from the killer if he is within x meters of the caged survivor for x time. All I'm doing here is giving this mechanic a bit of focus, and direction.
The reason the Cage works the way it does is because it already circumvents the only anti-camping and anti-tunnelling perks available, which is why the Cage moves -away- from the killer.
Tunnel Network takes this idea and puts it into the killer's control to make it a tool for more efficient camping and tunnelling. Want to chase someone but camp at the same time? Just plop them on the hook that you're getting looped around and BAM, no rescues!
Survivors deserve to be rescued. There's two hookstates preceding death for a reason.
Hard Slugger
This was meant to throw survivors off their normal pathing, and have to adapt on the fly. The extra 30 seconds before they can start to recover was also mean to defeat perks like no mither and unbreakable, but with the new boon: Exponential soon to come out, I really don't see how this is something that is so OP, both of you give it a hard "Nope".
Because it's a whopping 30 seconds of complete incapacitation for the target survivor. This one is a slugger's wet dream, another playstyle that's pretty damn awful to play against and tacked another perk onto the survivors' perk tax. Again, three hooks, and all that.
Also... 'A means to defeat No Mither'? That's an insanely hard sell. I don't think the literal worst perk in the game really needs a perk to counter it.
Hard Slugger
The Shoving mechanic was an Idea I've had for a long time, and I felt that it deserved a special mechanic around it, so it doesn't affect lunges, but if you attempt it on a regular swing and miss, you get double the slowdown on recovery. TBH I thought that those downsides made it pretty useless in most builds, despite the advantages it gives if it's pulled off.
No objection to the shoving mechanic, but with how spaghetti-code DBD is, it's unlikely to ever work. I foresee survivors getting pushed out of the map, inside level geometry, or switching floors for no reason. Despite this being the most reasonable effect, this is the least likely to ever work or be implemented, even over the 'permanent incapacitation' one.
BTW, Camp light, Tunnel Network and Hard Slugger, were purposely designed to put Camping, Tunneling, and Slugging into perk form. It was my way of mocking survivors complaints against them, despite the fact that most of the perks are designed to both discourage these tactics, while granting them some usefulness. So, there's that... and I have already defended them, so... What is your opinion on that?
Ah, see, if you go into the process of designing perks with an 'I hate survivors' mentality, that's going to skew your perception of balance a bit.
Particularly camping is a lodestone for a plethora of balance and game design problems, and it's hindering not just survivors, but killers as well. The fact that you drafted a bunch of perks to encourage these playstyles despite the serious damage they do to this game is casting a very harsh light on your ideas.
Camping, Tunnelling and Slugging are bad for the game.
Painful Neglect
Overall, I believe this perk has a fun mechanic that has a good chance against solo survivors, but as you've mentioned, is easily defeated by SWF, but honestly almost HALF of the killer perks are already easily defeated by SWF anyways, so I don't really see the problem here.
The problem is that there's a gap between Swiffer and Solo performances, which makes balancing a nightmare. This perk would just throw oil on the fire, as killers like Wraith, Myers, Ghostface and Pig would become nightmarish for Solo survivors to deal with, while this perk would barely work at all against a properly communicating Swiffer team.
Pig OP? Only with Painful Neglect, against solos. So what do you do with the balance?
Hide 'n Seek
Obviously this is useless to stealth killers, or killers with a lower than average TR, but what this does overall is create a better feeling of tension among the survivors, as the killer might be closer than what they've come to know, but is as easily adapted to as most other perks/killer powers. In the hands of the right killer, it could be a really good thing, but it won't take long until survivors realize the killers using it, and they start countering. Again, I don't see why you guys hate it so much.
The issue is that there's a lot of killers that shouldn't be stealth killers. One in particular that springs to mind is Bubba. Don't want that one suddenly chainsaw revving right next to you.
And there's no way to counter an absence of information. You can try and play extremely cautiously and jump off a gen as soon as you hear the TR, but that'll slow you down massively, which is a win for the killer, with a good chance of running face-first into a killer that might not have even realised you were there, or you can stay on the gen and get absolutely shafted when a killer that shouldn't be stealthy sneaks up on you.
Additionally, this has the same issue as Painful Neglect where the communication from Swiffer teams mitigate this perk, leading to more balancing discrepancies.
Mind Numbing Mist
While this can be a bit mean to newcomers, I highly doubt it will be a problem after a few games or for any seasoned player, but will overall be respected by them as well because it acknowledges their ability to read the game without relying on the devs "HUD coddling".
It being a bit mean to newcomers is, in and of itself, already a problem, since DBD has a very steep learning curve. But this also raises some concerns for me in regards to accessibility. Sure, you or I might be able to read all the auxiliary signs that go with the HUD elements, but that doesn't mean everyone can. Those with a visual or aural impairment might be unfairly disadvantaged by this perk that is, mostly, just fluff.
I just don't see any benefit to this perk, but I see potential drawbacks.
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DS shouldn't fire after the fifth gen.
But -ONLY- if it becomes baseline, as innate anti-tunnel. Both killer and survivor could use some of the meta perks being baselined to make both sides stronger, and slow games down a bit.
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@FreshCoal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640741#Comment_2640741
I agree that some of the perks might be a little overtuned, but I want these perks to actually be used by most killers, instead of having them just slap on 3 slowdown perks. I actually made a short video on YouTube explaining why I made each change for each perk:
The problem is the same as on the survivor side: the perks are mandatory due to inherent game flaws.
DS/BT/UB will continue to be used due to how strong camping/tunnelling/slugging are. The only way to break that is by releasing new perks that are way stronger, or, preferably, to remove the need for them.
Slowdown perks are used so much because base gen speed is high to compensate for camping/tunnelling/slugging.
A ton, a -ton- of killer perks are actually pretty damn solid already, but they won't get picked because you require slowdown.
It's just not a good idea to mess things up further and further while failing to address the underlying issues.
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@FreshCoal said:
This thread will be my thoughts on every single killer perk in the game, which ones need to be buffed, nerfed, and stay the same. This thread will also contain some re-works.
Note: If I do not include a perk on this list, that means I think it is fine as it is. The list is also in alphabetical order.
A Nurse's Calling: The killer will now hear a sound effect when a survivor is detected healing within the radius. (Probably just the healing sound that the survivors make but louder so that the killers knows that someone is healing)
Beast of Prey: This perk will be entirely reworked. Upon hooking a unique survivor, you will now gain a permanent +1% movement speed boost, with a cap of +4% movement speed. Additionally, upon breaking a pallet you will also receive +5% movement speed for 5 seconds.
Bitter Murmur: Aura reading for finishing gens 1-4 now reveals the auras of all survivors on the map instead of just the nearby survivor(s).
Blood Echo: Remove the 60 second cooldown.
Bloodhound: Add an additional power to the perk. Being within 4 meters of an injured survivor will now give the killer a killer instinct notification of the survivors location. (Good for tracking in a loop)
Brutal Strength: Increased the breaking speed to 30% (Instead of 20%).
Claustrophobia / Cruel Limits: This perk will be entirely reworked. Upon a survivor vaulting a window in a chase, every other window in a 32 meter radius will be blocked for 10 seconds for that survivor.
Coulrophobia: This perk will be changed a little to pair better with A Nurse's Calling. Coulrophobia will now increase healing speed by 10% when a survivor is inside of your terror radius, but it will decrease the speed that survivors heal outside of your terror radius by 50%
Coup De Grace: Coup De Grace will now passively increase the range of your lunge by 20%. Your lunge is extended by an additional 5% for every generator completed.
Dark Devotion: Increase duration to 40 seconds, and remove the cooldown
Dead Man's Switch: This perk will now activate for 30 seconds upon hooking any survivor that is not the obsession, and will activate for 60 seconds upon hooking the obsession.
Deadlock: Upon a generator being blocked with Deadlock, that generator will immediately receive a 5% regression penalty and begin automatically regressing upon it being unblocked.
Deathbound: Remove the distance requirement.
Deerstalker: You now see the aura of all downed survivors regardless of distance. Any other survivor within 4 meters of a downed survivor now also have their aura revealed to the killer.
Dragon's Grip: Remove the cooldown.
Dying Light: Remove the buff that the obsession receives and have the obsession also be affected by the slowdown.
Eruption: Eruption now slows down the speed of which you kick generators by 30%. When eruption triggers, the generators no longer go back to normal and continue to be affected by eruption for the rest of the match.
Fire Up: Fire up now increases the speed of which you pick up and drop survivors by 10% per token, and also speeds up the speed of vaulting windows, breaking pallets, walls, and generators by 5% per token.
Forced Penance: Survivors that take protection hits are now inflicted with the deep wound and incapacitated status effect.
Furtive Chase: Whenever a survivor unhooks another survivor, the unhooking survivors now becomes the obsession. Every time you hook the obsession, you receive the undetectable status effect for 60 seconds.
Gearhead: Anytime a survivor is hit with a basic or special attack, Gearhead activates for 30 seconds. When Gearhead is active, anytime a survivor succeeds a skill check on a generator, its aura is revealed for as long as it is being repaired.
Hangman's Trick: Hangman's trick will receive a rework. Sabotages now take an additional 2.5 seconds to complete and you hook survivors 50% faster. Hooks destroyed by the entity now respawn after 30 seconds.
Huntress Lullaby: Make this perk a normal perk instead of a hex perk. Whenever the survivor succeeds or fails a skill check, the receive the oblivious status effect for 10 seconds.
Hex: No One Escapes Death: The exposed status effect now only effects survivors that have been hooked previously in the trial.
Hex: Pentimento: Snuffing a boon totem now breaks the totem completely.
Hex: The Third Seal: The Third Seal now applies the oblivious status effect.
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt: Thrill of the hunt now gives you a loud noise notification when a survivors begins cleansing or blessing a hex totem.
Hex: Undying: Hex Undying now displays the aura of boon totems to you when within a 24 meter range.
Hysteria: Remove the cooldown
I'm all Ears: Reduce the cooldown to 20 seconds.
Iron Grasp: Iron grasp now completely negates the effects of a survivors wiggling instead of just 75%. The increased wiggle duration is now 25% instead of 12%.
Surge / Jolt: Remove the cooldown
Lethal Pursuer: Hitting a survivor with a basic or special attack now reveals their aura for 3 seconds.
Make your choice: Remove the cooldown
Monstrous Shrine: Monstrous Shrine will be reworked. Upon hooking a survivor in the basement, all survivors within 32 meters will scream and reveal their location. Whenever a survivor is unhooked from a basement hook, they have a 30% penalty to repairing generators and receive the broken status effect for 60 seconds.
Oppression: Reduce the cooldown to 30 seconds.
Overwhelming Presence: I have no idea what to do with this perk.
Predator: Predator will be reworked. Upon beginning a chase with a survivor, their aura is revealed for 10 seconds. Additionally, footsteps that the survivors make are now 100% louder.
Remember Me: Make the obsession also be effected by the slowdown. Additionally, the exit gate progress bar with now regress 1 charge every 4 seconds when this perk is equiped.
Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain: The 9% generator repair penalty is now applied when the survivor is unhooked and does not go away until the survivor is put into the dying state again.
Shadowborn: Along with the increased FOV, you also gain another passive bonus. Whenever a survivors aura is revealed to you, the aura of a generator within 4 meters of that survivor is hidden for as long as that survivor's aura is being revealed to you.
Spirit Fury: Every time you are stunned by a pallet, you also gain a passive 10% faster recovery speed from pallet stuns, to a maximum of 30%.
Starstruck: Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds.
Stridor: Injured survivor's groans of pain are increased by 50%, and the breathing sound of healthy survivors are now increased by 100%.
Surveillance: You now receive a sound effect when a survivors begins working on a generator that is affected by surveillance. Sound effect example: https://youtu.be/BMMnQeoMw00
Territorial Imperative: Whenever a survivor begins repairing a generator that is at zero progress, their aura is revealed to you for 10 seconds. Additionally, whenever a survivor is within 8 meters of a hooked survivor, you receive a killer instinct notification. (I had no idea what to do with this perk tbh)
Thanatophobia: Increase the penalty to 6% per survivor.
Thrilling Tremors: Reduce cooldown to 40 seconds.
Trail of Torment: Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds.
Unnerving Presence: Reduce the success zones of skill checks by 80% and remove the great skill check box completely.
Unrelenting: Upon hitting a survivor, your next successful and missed basic attack cooldowns are reduced by 20% for 45 seconds.
Just picking out the ones I consider an issue...
Beast of Prey: A permanent 4% movespeed boost is -huge-. The difference between a 110 and 115 killer is massive when you loop with them, so being able to bump a 115 up to 119 would be really excessive.
Bloodhound: Just removing mindgaming completely is also pretty excessive.
Claustrophobia: Very map dependent, but likely ruinous on Lery's.
Coulrophobia: Passive 50% heal speed debuff on EVERYONE, PERMANENTLY is really, really, REALLY excessive. I think Coulrophobia is already underestimated in terms of value, but this would skyrocket it to mandatory pick in all cases. Just passively costing the survivors an extra 32 seconds baseline (16 additional seconds for BOTH the healer and the injured) would be extremely high value for no input.
Coup de Grace: 20% is a lot, and passively being able to lung that much extra distance is pretty extreme, not to mention that when the killer has the most pressure, when there's only one gen left, it's at a whopping 40%. Passively. You might actually be able to move faster by just whiffing lunges at that point.
Deadlock: Already a solid slowdown perk, it doesn't need a buff. This would make it the de facto pick for slow-downs, most likely, especially with the automatic regression, coupled with intel on its location.
Deathbound: If they're that close, you're either hearing them, or they counterbuilt for the specific purpose of sneak healing. So this is either irrelevant, or a kick in the shins for Bite the Bullet, which doesn't deserve it.
Deerstalker: Getting a heads-up when a slugged survivor gets assistance is a slugger's tool, and slugging is not a good playstyle to encourage.
Dragon's Grip: No cooldown would be excessive, considering there's no real counterplay to this thing. Without CD, this'd just be permanent exposure all over the place.
Eruption: No. This would make some gens almost permanently untouchable. Imagine a three-gen set-up with this perk, it'd be unbeatable. And it'd be way more of an actual set-up, since the killer can just pick these gens to be incredibly hard to work on.
Forced Penance: 80 second incapacitated is EXTREMELY excessive. That survivor literally can't contribute for almost a minute and a half with this, all for trying to help someone.
Furtive Chase: 60 second undetectable for just hooking someone is also extremely excessive. We don't need perma-stealth Bubba.
Huntress' Lullaby: Either make it not a hex or make it grant oblivious, not both.
NOED: Not a problematic change by any stretch, but not enough to fix the many problems with NOED.
Pentimento: Too harsh a counter. Turns all survivor boon perks into killer perks.
Thrill of the Hunt: Also too harsh a counter. Makes boon perks fully unusable.
Undying: I don't think this should be on Undying, I think this should either be on a different perk, or a new one. Or, with reduced range, baseline.
Iron Grasp: The wiggle reduction is fine, but doubling the wiggle progression penalty is excessive. Killers don't need to be 100% able to put everyone in the basement at all times. If there was no basement, this'd be fine, but this is just going to get used for camping.
Surge/Jolt: Maybe a shorter CD, but not no CD.
Monstrous Shrine: No broken status effect. That'd help basement camping too much and remove possibly the only counterplays to it, which are already weak, niche perks.
Predator: Not keen on the 'when a chase starts' aura reveal, because sometimes the game will detect a chase when the killer misses it.
Gift of Pain: This is not a good change because it makes the perk significantly less interesting. It's a cool idea to give the survivor the choice: Either play injured or repair slower. Removing that risk/reward thing in favour of 'you're just permanently screwed' isn't good.
Starstruck: Already has no downtime and is pretty strong, doesn't need buffs.
Territorial Imperative: Aside from this completely invalidating the use of Lethal Pursuer, there's no reason to give the killer a heads-up when someone's about to be unhooked. That's just going to be used for tunnelling and camping, and those strats need to be made weaker, not stronger.
Unnerving Presence: Ye olde Ruin. Really harsh punishment for new players.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640647#Comment_2640647
We can totally nerf DH and IW. 2 free slots for new perks
You could nerf DH, sure. But that'd just kick it down to uselessness, and give its place up to SB.
IW I'm not sure what you could do about. Fixing sound bugs I suppose.
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BT should just remove unit collission for the duration of the endurance effect, so that bodyblock strat can't be used at all anymore.
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@Shaped said:
In kyf only.
I think custom games can already adjust the map pool directly, can't they?
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@FreshCoal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640637#Comment_2640637
Which ones are? A lot of perks in the game are terrible and I wanted to make them actually usable against other popular killer perks.
I'll go through the list in a bit, since typing on mobile is a pain.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2639159#Comment_2639159
Or they just can nerf current meta
Fun fact: you can't.
Because most 'meta' survivor perks are actually really bad. They're just band-aid solutions for flaws in the core mechanisms of the game.
If tunnelling and slugging weren't possible strategies, DS and UB would have a 0% pickrate because they would never fire. Any killer that avoids these strats can see this in their own games.
Probably the best way to shift the meta on both sides of the aisle at this point is to modify these perks to be baseline.
DS: no longer works after 5th gen is done, but now baseline.
UB: Survivors in the dying state can interact with a generator once fully recovered to perform a 15 second action to get back up.
Hex: Ruin: Any gen left unattended for 10 seconds starts to regress at 1 charge per 2 seconds.
Pop goes the weasel: Kicking a gen sets it back 5% by default.
That might slow the game down a bit and free some perk slots.
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A lot of these range from excessive to extremely excessive. This doesn't look balanced at all.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
my reason to return is to look at david king's delectable abs
No joke, I was on the fence for a long time regarding whether or not to get into DbD, and it was a combination of shirtless David and Autumn Beard Felix that convinced me.
Man-candy just gets me.
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@pixicls said:
I'm a new player and I'm pretty sure I know my way around the game now, and have an understanding of how teachables work. I play almost entirely survivor and visually my favourites are jane, kate and yui, so I'd like to build them eventually and "main" them. (I currently only have the feng min and doctor DLC and i play feng the most right now.) My ideal playstyle is as like a "stealthy helper", someone who usually hides but can pull off rescues and chases etc when I need to. Which DLCs should I buy first for good teachables? Any help is appreciated 😀
What might be really good picks to start you off are We're Gonna Live Forever (David King) and BBQ & Chili (The Cannibal). Both of these perks are primarily used to increase the amount of bloodpoints you gain, making it easier to level up other characters and get their perks unlocked.