Equinox_One
Equinox_One
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@baharuto48 said:
- Slugging is connected to a perk the killer has to take otherwise survivors get base kit unbreakable when the killer is more than 10 to 20 meters away
- Slugging is a power the killer has unlocked once the gen count reaches three
- Someone else got an idea?
Simple. If more than 50% of the remaining survivors (so one of the last two) are slugged, they get a 'bleed out' option.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859132#Comment_3859132
It's a lose/lose. And better to inconvenience someone for 4 minutes than have your time wasted for 20.How many times has this situation ever happened to you? Because I can't think of a single time its ever happened to me where there was
1: save at 2 survivors
2: they both got away
3: they managed to hide out for 20 minutes
Even if there is a slight chance of it, you are also wasting your own time. You'll have far more of those 4 minute situations than you will the 20. Even if you have no qualms about wasting other player's time, you're doing it to yourself as well.
More times than I can remember where I play fairly chill, 2 hook everyone if possible and the last two hide forever and avoid crows. Fewer but still plenty of 3-4man SWFs who set out to do this from the start, including a Russian TTV group I've faced multiple times, have 'hide and seek pro' or something in their profile, come in with builds for it and are obnoxious as all hell.
That specific example? Maybe…5?
It's always a duo, generally a pallet save but sometimes a good sabo.
I suspect it could have happened way more too but I got lucky and saw the sabo coming in time to drop.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858797#Comment_3858797
I wouldn't be too sure about that. There was a hell of a lot of questions about slugging in the latest satisfaction survey. I wouldn't be surprised if all this slugging for the 4k nonsense has made way for some upcoming changes to slugging.
It's overdue. It's also irritating that the final two survivors hiding until the server closes or I DC isn't even on the radar.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859332#Comment_3859332
It's happened to me once I think ever since 2021. It's a non-issue.
What this virtually non-existent situation is in the thread is a flimsy excuse to attempt to justify slugging the second last survivor for the 4K and try to convince people it's the survivors' fault instead of the Killer player who created the the situation.
You can see that in how contradictory and non-sensical the arguments for it are. The Killer will save more of their own time overall by hooking the second last survivor and then moving on. Instead of potentially wasting 4 minutes for a survivor to bleed out and then start the Hatch RNG the Killer could just start the Hatch RNG and then probably be in another match by the time they would have bled out the slugged survivor in the last match.
The BP argument is nonsensical since you're talking about a few BP in one category. By entering a fresh match faster the overall BP earned by a Killer is higher per minute is much higher than bleeding out a Survivor to lessen the chance the last Survivor might get Hatch.
The Hatch is Killer slanted anyways since the Killer has a much faster movement rate and their search won't be hindered by stopping to hide. The Killer is the hunter; not the hunted and in most cases the Killer will have a faster match and more BP overall by just hooking the second last survivor.
There are no logical reasons to bleed out the second last survivor other than an Adept or achievement and it's poor sportsmanship besides. The OP seems bothered by that and being BMed by Survivors so, instead of becoming the type of player others would like to play against, engages in the sort of behaviours that create more BM against Killer players and is trying to justify their position when they're behaving just as poorly as the people the OP is criticizing. It's obvious from the responses it's not working and most people agree that bleeding out the second last survivor is poor sportsmanship. So, in my opinion, the sluggers for the 4K should just either change their behaviour or own their behaviour. They're not going to convince the person being bled out that it was good sportsmanship to bleed them out since it's obviously not so. It's pointless to try to convince the bled out player otherwise; they know how much it sucked. If the sluggers for the 4K genuinely don't care about people's opinions then don't try to argue something that's not okay is; just recognize that's how they play and they aren't considerate of the other players time. It's not like BHVR is going to ban the sluggers for slugging for the 4K or anything so either they should either own their behaviour or change their behaviour.
Who exactly likes getting BM'd? I know I don't and so I'll take steps to avoid it. Sure, it's a circular problem but it also is what it is at this point. If BHVR wanted to improve player sportsmanship, they could have taken steps years ago.
Again - I generally don't slug for the 4k, unless I've had a hiding group recently. In which case, yeah. I've paid my dues and I'm not going to waste 20 minutes of my limited gaming time versus being a bit mean for 4.
It may be a region thing or an MMR thing, but I see it pretty often. More than once a week. Last two survivors hide either to troll or so one of them has a chance for hatch. You've got people in this thread literally defending it 'because DbD is hide and seek bruh, look at this advertising blurb'.
You cannot expect one side to be the bigger man when it has zero benefit to them. Manner up, a big part of this fixes itself. It costs you nothing to just leave once you find the hatch or the gates are open.
EDIT: I still have pictures of survivors from years ago using terrain geometry to take games hostage. Lots of them. It's not an uncommon instinct. Mandy confirmed that nobody was getting banned for it either (DDS unhittable spot a while back).
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859324#Comment_3859324
Well, if you're going to respond to every suggestion with "But then this will happen, now what?", then stop asking for suggestions.
Sigh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859132#Comment_3859132
Lol, if the last two Survivors hiding for hatch is as common as people say it is, they're not going to be hanging around their teammate waiting for a sabo or flashlight save.
But in the hypothetical situation where it does happen, you can either chase the person who did the save, or the person who was saved. The latter would be the more likely target, but the former could be good, too, if they're already injured.
Alternatively, you can do a quick check of your surroundings before picking up. Check nearby rocks, walls, etc. to see if the other person isn't hanging around. Or better yet, equip Infectious Fright. Then you'll know if the other person is nearby as soon as you knock down the third Survivor.
They could well be a duo. There's no way I'll know.
Checking surroundings means diddly against a good BGP or sabo player. And no, 'just equip x perks in case survivors do that one really annoying thing' doesn't work any more than 'oh BHVR don't need to fix hide and seek squads because Whispers exists'.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859243#Comment_3859243
You mentioned specifically "Yes, but this is a case of raw statistics being misleading" when specifically responding too someone talking about kill rates for swf.
The more specific confusion comes from your statement here:
Just blueskying, but I'd guess a 55% kill rate against high MMR SWFs translates to something very close to 50%, factoring in the prevalence of 25% kill rate even in losing games (1k).
That makes no sense. Either you meant to say "a 55% kill rate translates to a 50% win rate", which is the only reason I can think of that a 1k even comes into play at any point.
Because if not, you're just saying arbitrarily that a 55% kill rate should just be considered 50% kill rate instead for some reason.
And generally speaking, most people consider 3k-4k a killer win, 0k-1k a survivor win, and 2k a draw. I don't really care if the devs defined it or not since that's the colloquial use of the "win conditions".
Ah, tomato tomahto. Yes, I meant it in that sense although I probably could have said 'it's quite easy for the killer to regularly secure 1 kill'.
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@Nathan13 said:
It’s getting annoying countering killers that do nothing but stand still the whole match, something needs to be done about that. And then we also have killers that wanna farm and it’s just like I don’t wanna participate in that get me out of the match.
As someone who has occasionally queued up and forgot because the kid started exploding, it'll kick you after a few minutes with a DC penalty.
The problem are the bots. But all you can do is report those.
@bleep275 said:
Pretty sure a lot do it to drop MMR so they can stomp on less skilled players.
See above.
@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859279#Comment_3859279
I saw some just spam m1 or use their powers in weird way like they are bots. I think some of these people farm accounts and sell them.
Yep, those are bots. Probably Epic accounts for resale.
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@SasakIN said:
It's weird how almost everyone here is suffering like as if someone is putting a gun to their head and force to play dbd or something. Why not close the game a down for a moment and chill out?
Yeah!
Godforbid people provide feedback and discuss the game on the forums specifically for that purpose!
The sheer audacity…
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@Nazzzak said:
When there's 2 of us left with multiple gens to go, I don't want to keep playing a lost game. Since I, like most people, have limited play time, I want to go to my next match. Anti-slug doesn't help, just hook me please.
I try to hook you. Your buddy has BGP and drops a perfect sabo on me. Now both of you hide.
What do I do to prevent this?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859262#Comment_3859262
Why?
I want to try it. I think it'd help the current version of the game a lot. Plenty of modern Killers can keep up, like Dracula or Houndmaster, for example.
Many older Killers already played on those maps and did fine. Like, old Fractured Cowshed? Probably something we're gonna want to adjust a bit still, but old MacMillan or old Aazarov's Realms? They'll still play fine outside of fixing bugs.
The new maps and tiles are just straight up garbage. I don't even think they can get fixed due to how small most maps are. Having better loops with more/better pallets just raises the density and hurts Killers exponentially.
It would be a cute anniversary event or something, but…I dunno about modern killers.
Dracula is strong. Sadako? Post nerfs Chucky? Trickster?
Maybe like a remastered version of older maps with the classic lighting.
I think new maps are a mixed bag. Borgo is still fairly strong for survivor I find. Ditto Toba. Nostromo is a mess - it feels huge and mazey but tiles are mediocre. Vecna's map is just ick for everyone. Reworked Midwich feels okay. Eyrie is an abomination for killer but it's better than it was (old Eyrie was one of the most miserable maps ever made). Haddonfield is very killer sided…mostly, but GoJ still has a defacto infinite possible with that one god window in main where you can always break LOS. Greenville…I still don't know but I get absolutely pantsed there as killer sometimes. Ditto the new MD.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859247#Comment_3859247
Which is why I did not say, "Hey, let's just revert DBD to 2019" what I did say was, "Hey, we should try the maps from 2019 with some common-sense fixes"
Why?
Like…a remastered retro version as an event would be fine, but you'd have to revert so many things to that era otherwise the balance is super borked now.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859153#Comment_3859153
Change basekit BT to just be intangibility for eight seconds or so.
The only reason that happened was due to Claudette popping a Styptic, which used to be longer AND because Otz messed up and didn't bait out DH.
He also completely dominated the game until that point.
It was still an absolutely ridiculous loop.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859105#Comment_3859105
The kill rate is the kill rate. It's also official stats from the entire game by BHVR.
Sure, which is why the kill rate is a bit lower
Are you meaning that the win rate is different? Because what you've said twice now is that "well, the kill rate isn't real and it's actually much lower because reasons".
You may mean something different, but the words you're writing are just flat disregarding the stats, semmingly because you feel like it or just didn't like the result.
Wait.
Hang on a damn second there.
Where did I say 'the kill rate isn't real?'
Double inverted commas mean that's a direct quote. So again - where?
Statistics are accurate but also give an inaccurate view of the whole picture here. Which is why I posted that often misattributed Disraeli quote.
I mean what I said. The stats are what they are, but the stats can be deceptive in isolation.
I'm not sure if you didn't really read what I said or simply misunderstood
Also - the term 'win rate' is meaningless for killer. Because BHVR has never specified what the killer win state is.
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@Akumakaji said:
My hot take for the longest time is pretty simple, and pretty beautiful, as it would only hamper the most organised and well oiled SWF, while hardly impacting fun-SWFs and absolutely not affecting soloQ. Perk up and listen to me wonder cure for the game:
- let every survivor see the other survivors load-outs in the lobby
- don't allow for duplicates within a SWF
Thats it. With this simple change everyone could guesstimate what the others are up to and maybe adjust accordingly or at least take a mental note, that that player has that certain perk equipped. And the most well organised SWFs could not abuse stuff like 4DH, 4 UB or even 4 Head On in liu with a Dead Dog map offering, while in the same vain only minimally impact the gameplay of run of the mill SWFs who only want to play with their friends. In my regular SWF we sometimes have some overlap, but most of the time we all do our own things, and if we knew beforehand, it would be easy to rectify. And soloQ players could always bring whatever they fancy.
I've thought about this exact problem before - as it's SO annoying to have 4 kindreds for instance. The issue is that A. good luck ever playing stuff off meta, like No Mither and B. lobby dodging would go through the roof which in turn completely breaks matchmaking. My guess is that BHVR considered this and rejected it for that reason.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859144#Comment_3859144
Ehh disagree. IMO they were a gimmick. Completely useless against anyone wearing headphones.
Also don't have a 4 man to play with anymore. I used to have like 8 people I regularly SWFed with. Of that, only 1 of them still plays.
You must have Matt Murdock level hearing because they made a very loud, constant 'whoooom' noise to drown survivors out.
Grab people from the Discord. Day or night, takes a few seconds.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859148#Comment_3859148
Maps in 2019 did not have actual infinites, as someone who played them extensively. They had god loops, yes, but not real infinites. You'll also notice I said, "With some common-sense adjustments, of course".
DH is a perk that allows you to take an extra health state after being unhooked, it is most often used as an anti-tunnel perk, in my experience. Regardless, BT and OTR do not stack, despite both of them being anti-tunnel. Hell, even the basekit BT doesn't stack and will eat any use of DH or OTR.
The only true anti-tunnel is your teammates doing gens so fast that it doesn't matter.
Haddonfield HOP was an actual infinite against 110 killers (and near as dammit against some others). I'd have to find the video, but…I think it was Ayrun did a demonstration of it. You could break LOS long enough against 110 killers to drop chase so they'd never get bloodlust and there's that one of Otzdarva on Nemesis getting run there for about 5 bloody minutes - it's in his win streak video.
Yeah I see what you mean and there's a good reason those don't stack, as it would turn the unhooked survivor into an unstoppable body blocking monster.
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@joel84 said:
because that's what they're there for….
That is the truth. Yes it is.
There are so many complaints about it at the moment. Use something other than WoO, DS and DH combos. That's what those perks are for, so get out of your comfort zone.
A terrible statement? Certainly not.
Seriously, if someone has a problem with being on the floor for 4 minutes, why are they even playing? ( Don't say anything about time, you're playing a computer game and everyone who plays a computer game has time) It's part of the game.
In my opinion, developers have meddled far too much in the game of killers in recent years anyway.
So I ask: what will killers be allowed to do in the future? Survivors complain about every little thing, and it's gotten ridiculous and nerdy.
Cote would say: go play something else. Civilization for all I care.
That's just the way it is; change my mind
'Change my mind' is generally shorthand for 'I feel like arguing for the sake of arguing'.
The problem is that there is an impasse at present. Survivors can do some really gross things on losing games to stall it out forever. The only way to 100% stop a duo who wants to play hide and seek for 20 minutes to be BM, or to try and force the killer to DC is to slug camp. It would be wonderful if it wasn't needed.
On the other hand, anti-slug perks are pretty universally bad. You've got a one use recovery, you've got a situational boon and I think that's about it.
Perks should not be a bandaid for problems like this.
Slugging is on the radar but it's a hard problem to fix. I wish hide and seek was, even if it's only fixing the idiotic number of ways you can bypass AFK crows.
@Pulsar said:
People do not play DBD to be on the floor for 4 minutes, just like they don't play DBD to be blinded or stunned for a whole game.
The game is meant to be fun for both sides, not just whatever side you happen to play. It doesn't take a genius to understand why being on the ground for so long might not be the ideal DBD experience.
Likewise, I think people don't want to bring anti-slug perks because they already feel they need to bring certain perks already. It's one of my greatest issues with DBD, which is that through the elimination of variability in both Killers, maps and RNG; the game has forced players to take certain types of perks.
As a Survivor, you NEED to have anti-tunnel perks else you're liable to be removed from the match, but a lot of these perks have negative synergy, ie, you cannot use OTR and DH. You also need a chase perk to help with some of the more oppressive Killer powers, since maps cannot be relied on anymore. You'll also likely need an information perk, either to keep tabs on the Killer or your teammates. That leaves you ONE perk slot of your own choosing, which you are now saying Survivors must give up in order to counter slugging.
As a Killer, you NEED to bring at least one gen regression perk. These perks, unlike anti-tunnel, usually have synergy together, which leads to them being stacked. Most Killers do not need chase perks anymore, due to maps being FAR weaker than they used to be and FAR FAR smaller. Information, however, is still useful; but as I said earlier, with maps being smaller, information is less valuable. Still, Killers usually end up with just two perk slots free in order to have a good experience.
That is less than ideal. I would be interested to see how many of the current Killers play on maps from say, 2019, with some common-sense adjustments, of course.
DH is not an anti-tunnel perk though. It's just an exhaustion tool, like Lithe.
Honestly, the only universally effective anti tunnel perk is your teammates spreading hook states.
Maps from 2019…no. Just no. Actual infinites, at least one or two spots on each map where survivors could glitch into doodads or terrain to be unhittable or impossible to pick up.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857687#Comment_3857687
I haven't truly enjoyed an event as survivor in a couple of years now. Killer is the only role I consistently have fun as anymore.
Really?
Halloween was an absolute riot as survivor, especially in a 3-4man. Those smoke bombs were incredibly strong.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
There are currently 276 perks in the game, and let's be honest, only 15% of them are used consistently. Not only that, but the perks that are used consistently have been like that since they were released (mostly). The meta is pretty stale and you see the same stuff every game.
On the other hand, when some obscure perk gets buffed to become good or overturned, everyone rushes to use it, then the community complains about, and BHVR has to rush to release a hotfix nerfing said perk instead of letting the community get used to it before making a decision. I was like this with Thrill of the Hunt and Boil Over for example. This doesn't let BHVR get experimental with perk tweaks and updates, since any thing bold they want to pull out might just cause chaos in the community.
That's why I say there should be a perk ban mechanic, where the killer chooses 4 perks to ban and each survivor chooses 1 perk to remove. Every player picks their band on the first 30 seconds of the lobby and then on the last 30 seconds it locks, allowing each player to adapt their build accordingly.
Instead of using Counterforce to deal with Thrill, just ban the perk. When playing Spirit, ban Iron Will so you don't get hardcountered by it. Did BHVR release a new broken perk? Ban it until they fix it. Want to shake the meta up? Ban the meta perks so the other side has to use more underground stuff.
And, for those of you who may say "oh I need X perk to win". Lobby dodging once you see the bans would still be a possibility, since you are only locked from leaving it in the last 15 seconds.
If you aren't open to discussion, why post on a discussion forum? And why are you arguing your point at all?
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858965#Comment_3858965
They can simply lobby dodge. Or use Babysitter, BT, or Blood Rush.
Also, they can ban Pain Resonance, Corrupt Intervention, and Nowhere to Hide. Honestly, that's a fair trade for me.
No.
The last thing we need are more lobby dodges, considering how badly it breaks matchmaking.
This is an awful idea.
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859079#Comment_3859079
Both sides have good perks for both of these needs that are powercrept in comparison to the best perks. Babysitter and Blood Rush are both really good perks, but they aren't used because they aren't broken as DS and OTR. On the killer side, Surge, Oppression, and Dying Light aren't terrible either and can be used for that matter.
Also, killers tunnel to diminish gen efficiency at the end, and survivors do gens quickly to get things done fast before the first survivor dies. If you ban the best perks for both matters, it balances itself out to some extent.
Oppression is a great perk and I run it on a lot of killers. Surge is crap as it eats up the kick limit really fast and also has easy counterplay. Babysitter is insane but only in SWFs. The rest are sort of crap.
Plus - you have killers like Trapper that all but require Corrupt.
What you're describing wouldn't balance anything. It would just cripple certain killers while enabling some truly gross playstyles.
For example - 4man SWF that comes in to play hide and seek, bans the handful of perks that can actually counter this. Oh boy. Or hard tunneling killer bans DS, Babysitter and OTR. Womp womp.
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@NODD3RS said:
nothing will kill this game. If the eruption meta that lasted 6 months didnt kill it, or the healing boon + dh meta, nothing will
Chess merchant made me quit playing survivor for about a month. The first incarnation of Bone Chill (snowmen that were a third health state for survivors and also bugged out a lot of killer powers) had me taking a similar break from killer.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859016#Comment_3859016
it’s hilarious we’ve now got people trying to justifying slugging at three people left.!Why even play the game at that point?
Pointing things sarcastically out is not any sort of argument.
I'm trying to explain that yes, there are reasons a killer might slug for the 4k outside of them just being mean, namely not wanting to get BM'd by a sore winner or, more importantly, survivors taking the game hostage for an extended period by hiding for the hatch.
Note the poster above you. People are literally justifying taking the match hostage until the server closes in this situation because the killer, rather than slug for the 4k, risked hooking and got sabo'd. So clearly this is something that survivor players will do.
It's a lose/lose. And better to inconvenience someone for 4 minutes than have your time wasted for 20.
@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859080#Comment_3859080
Well, if you actually lose both of them after that you deserve those 20min.
Ah. So I can either risk having 20 minutes wasted…or I can slug for the 4k.
Thanks for proving my exact point I guess?
Every killer loses survivors sometimes, because there are perks (and also latency) which futz with tracking, some maps are very dark and/or cluttered etc. So if you're really justifying taking the game hostage for an extended period as some sort of…punishment for this, then yeah. Case closed.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859078#Comment_3859078
i'd argue that 1K's are even less likely in 4-man games due to Altruism.
Sure, which is why the kill rate is a bit lower. Watching some top level streamers though, it definitely isn't uncommon, and altruism can also backfire hard.
@Peanuts said:
As a solo and average survivor (1000 hours), I stopped due to the tunneling and slugging.
I get so frustrated from most games. All usefull perks are nerfed because of SWF abuse.
People keep asking to nerf SWF but they don't realise that most nerfs impacts solo survivors experience and new players.The current poll* asked if you would recommand the game to friends.
I would discourage them to play.I don't think there has ever been a time in DbD's history when there were more useful perks on either side. There just aren't as many flat out broken ones like CoH and DH were.
I will say that SC should never have been nerfed as this was hugely punishing to solos, and I think most people seem to agree.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859048#Comment_3859048
You are afraid of this in a 2v1? Seriously?
Afraid? Not exactly.
Even a small chance of a win turning into a 20 minute hunt for two survivors hiding in lockers and avoiding AFK crows is too high.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859019#Comment_3859019
Actually, High MMR 4-man SWF stats show they aren't even escaping 50% of the time.
Yes, but this is a case of raw statistics being misleading. I think Otz explained this in detail, but from how I understood it, the way the game is built creates an inflated kill rate when you factor in that 4o is way rarer than 1k, the game is really snowbally and there is an incredibly high rate of quitting on one side but not the other.
Just blueskying, but I'd guess a 55% kill rate against high MMR SWFs translates to something very close to 50%, factoring in the prevalence of 25% kill rate even in losing games (1k).
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859011#Comment_3859011
I mean maybe you're right about matchmaking being the biggest part of the problem, that is possible. The fact that Bhvr. says they are "shooting for" 60% kill rates though i think is an issue. Its way too high, even if you want killer to be the "power role" go for 55% or something, thats still a 10% advantage.
The game is actually relatively balanced when it's SWF versus killer. The game cannot be balanced around solo queue.
60% kill rate does not mean a 60% win rate. Others have explained it better, but don't get too caught up on that number. Most of the time, even losing games, a killer can secure 1 kill and 3 kills on a winning game.
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859019#Comment_3859019
You cn sugarcoat it however you want, a 20% difference in one side achieving their win condition over the other is massive.
See above. You're hyperfocusing on one number that doesn't mean quite what you think it does.
@doobiedo said:
I just hope that enough survivors will stop playing eventually that Bhvr. will have to make both sides on a more even playing field.
Didn't you say in another thread that you actually want BHVR to be survivor favored?
@buggybug said:
Survivors are sick of everything and thus many has moved on to other games and there is alot of nice games thst came out on switch and psn( idk of xbox since I do not deal with them).
And yet outside of 2v8, my killer queues are nearly instant and most of the time have a 25%-50% bonus. Clearly there is no shortage of survivors.
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858935#Comment_3858935
Which side is the one that has the game mechanics in their favor and wins majority of games by default again?
Define 'win' as it pertains to killer. Show your work.
(Yes, I'm making a point here. BHVR have never defined what a 'win' constitutes for a killer player).
Also - this game has 3 'sides'.
Think of it like this. You can have solo versus killer, SWF versus killer or a mix of solo and SWF versus killer. Game is fairly balanced as SWF versus killer. You cannot buff solo willy nilly without completely breaking said balance.
BHVR have been adding in a ton of things to help solos, and I can't really think of much more they can do short of preventing suicides. Even showing equipped perks in lobby could go sideways with increased lobby dodges (which borks matchmaking).
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@bleep275 said:
Looking at the steam charts there has been a steep decline in player base. With the peak for the year being in June at around 99k players. The game is now 36k on December 16th. Now after the Vecna/Laura Croft chapters in the June time frame, it makes sense that there would be a surge in players for the release and decrease afterwards.
That being said the decline was very stable until around September, which is when the decline in player base starts to accelerate. With only some resurgence for the Halloween events and 2v8. After those events things got wayyy worse.
The timing of the drop-off seems to align with the introduction of the finisher mori and the current slugging epidemic in the game. I think the constant slugging is genuinely killing the game. I know of at least 8 people who stopped playing because of this new slug "meta". I myself have decided to stop playing survivor due to it.
so my theory of the plummet is in PART due to the slugging and tunneling issue. What do you guys think is the cause?
Been a while since I saw one of these posts. Short version:
- 99.9% of these threads boil down to 'x thing that I want changed about the game is why the numbers are dropping'. In this case, boilerplate balancing whinge.
- The player count is relatively consistent over time, but does wax and wane.
- DbD is basically 100 years old in videogame time.
- The cause is an aging game, the release of another incredibly successful PvP game (Marvel Rivals) and just standard fluctuation.
DbD will continue for a long time yet, but will eventually end. The sky is not falling.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859037#Comment_3859037
I asked you this before: Why do you allow the save?
How do you stop the save without slugging against a pallet/BGP play or a BGP/Sabo play?
Feel free to let me know because I'm seeing some absolute god tier sabos right now, especially when people are on coms.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859010#Comment_3859010
If the save happened you very very likely have atleast 2 trails to follow, 1 with blood as extra help. This may sound like the usual "skill issue" but many killers have a hard time completely losing a survivor after a save. That said it didn't answer how the survivor is responsible for a killer slugging for the 4k.
As for the bullets:
- True it is undefined but also the 4k instead implied by Bhvr in a way we see. 3k still rises mmr, we get happy entity if we get 8 hooks with zero kills, you got a hefty amount of bp we don't see it. Even if it's 1 v (1 v 1 v 1 v 1) and could be interpreted as 3 wins with 1 loss it could also be interpreted as 1 survivor and killer wins with 3 survivors loosing.
- That's got zero to do with either "responsibility" (in the sense of its on them that this is happening) or having the 4th giving themselves up the reasonable course of action. Not to say it wouldn't be unexpected or possibly deserved but the killer is still responsible for slugging for the 4k.
Only way to prevent that is to proxy camp - which is complained about almost as much as slugging for the 4k.
You can absolutely lose people after an unhook. Hell, even people like Otz lose people. Blood puddles are nearly invisible on most maps anyway.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859020#Comment_3859020
Lightborn alone counters three of those. And sabotage usually isn't that dangerous.
A pallet save with Background Player, yes, that one has no counter.
I'm seeing some absolutely insane sabo these days, people are realizing with the right setup you can sabo, in the killer's face, and get away with only one health state. It's…incredibly irritating.
@CrypticGirl said:
It's definitely an ego thing on the Killer's part, because they can't get it out of their minds that it's not the end of the world if the last Survivor escapes every once in a while. Even when Killers don't slug, the last Survivor only gets out like 10% of the time (most likely less). If Killers are the ones initiating the stalemate by slugging the third Survivor and leaving them, they have no right to complain about the time wasted.
Okay. I pick up the survivor. Other survivor gets the save. Now they both hide and avoid AFK crows, because now both want the hatch.
Now what?
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858983#Comment_3858983
even if theoretically soloQ was equalized with SWFs at some point, that would be the state of the game where game would be absolutely unplayable for the killer role, now even at S-tier. But that day will never come since soloQ will still be bottlenecked by players simply refusing to play the game the way it's intended (people not using/abusing voice chat, people giving up because they still can't do some basic things in the match etc.)
I don't think it's possible without completely breaking the balance of the game, but stuff like baseline kindred (sans killer aura) and bond would be a great first step. Also completely remove self hook suicides as on the occasion I play solo queue, maybe half my losses are someone ragequitting a generally winnable game.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858579#Comment_3858579
But you said, and I quote:
Now I've got two people playing hide and seek and stalling the game out rather than 1.
The first one of those two that you find you hook immediately. Thats it. Thats all it takes.
Unless they go down on a pallet. Or there's a BGP/flashlight on the last survivor. Or a flashbang. Or crackers. Or a sabo.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858984#Comment_3858984
Well seems to have diverged then as it's turned into being about 2 survivors hiding trying to get hatch.
We do got questions regarding something in the op:
Nothing is stopping that last survivor from just conceding up rather than stalemating the game and wasting everyone's time further. At best, you have a slim chance at hatch, while the other survivors sit there and rot. You're just as responsible.
Since the killer can kill that 3rd survivor but isn't how does it make that 4th survivor responsible? Also what makes the 4th giving themselves up in this scenario the reasonable course of action?
Killer can try to kill that 3rd survivor. But it could go sideways if there's a save or something and then you've got two hiding.
Again, also, it comes down to:
- Killer's victory state is undefined. 3k is a house rule. 4k seems to be implied by BHVR, as they define it as 4 1v1s. So, by this logic, killer is losing once and winning three times.
- Survivors being inevitably BM on hatch or in gate, even if these are given. And nobody likes being BM'd.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858818#Comment_3858818
So we may have missed something at this point and want to be clear on everything. This thread was originally about slugging for the 4k and how some of it is part of the survivors fault for not coming to the slugs rescue correct? Its now become about 2 survivors hiding and waiting for 1 to die so the other gets hatch?
No, some of it is the hiding survivor's fault for also stalling the game out and some of it is why killers might slug for the 4K sometimes, namely the potential of two survivors taking the game hostage in a way BHVR don't seem to care about.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858818#Comment_3858818
If the game is balanced around swf, then every single possible buff should be given to solo que survivors until their escape rates are as close as possible. All info perks like kindred, bond etc. should be basekit, perks that are solo que killers but worthless against swh like third seal should be taken out of the game. Unless actions like this are taken to show that Bhvr. actually cares about making the game playable for the majority of survivor players than it can only be assumed that the ability to "go next" on hook is purposely kept in the game by Bhvr. due to their choice or inability to balance their game. Without that "escape hatch" even the resolute players still playing survivor at this point would stop playing.
How?
They've said that they will never, ever, ever give solos and SWFs different abilities and perks.
Also - yes. Sweeping balance changes that'll completely upend the game. It's…fun to dream.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858633#Comment_3858633
So, the teabagging survivor lost the game and is trying to get a rise out of you for what feels like a emotional dig or victory for them over you and you're giving them that satisfaction by attempting to bypass the game as intended and taking out your frustrations on other players who aren't the player who tried to get a rise out of you?
If the teabagging survivor in question actually seriously thinks they 'won' by getting what's widely acknowledged as an RNG pity escape why would you care about the opinion of someone who has so little game sense they don't understand a 3K means the Killer won?
The 4 minutes mention is also erroneous as it's a hard cap set by BHVR. The intent behind both slugging the second last survivor for the 4K and hiding in a locker for the Hatch is to bypass game mechanics and gameplay as intended and waste another player's time and, if the timer were one hour, the same people who try to justify it now would try to justify it then. If you want to say the Killer's role is to kill and that justifies slugging the second last survivor then the Survivor's role is to survive and that would justify the hiding. In reality those are just examples of poor sportsmanship and a lack of consideration for other people and the Killer who slugs the second last for the 4K is not behaving any better nor any better than the Survivor who is locker hopping in the hopes of getting Hatch
Care? Not really. It's annoying enough that I'll try to prevent it in future.
That entire page long paragraph misses the point. I'll inconvenience someone for 4 minutes to avoid being inconvenienced for 20+. It's not only the fault of the hiders, it's BHVR's fault for having so many ways to avoid AFK crows. If they cared, this would have been fixed a long time ago.
Again - 4 minutes versus server closing time. Neither are great, but one is objectively worse than the other.
@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858798#Comment_3858798
Right, that's why I didn't receive a one-month-ban for explaining how and why "eternal hiding" is the only way to play a 2v1. Oh wait, I did.
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858798#Comment_3858798
Man I wish the devs were actually survivor biased at this point. It is absurd that one side (killer) is just easy mode.
And posts like this contribute to killers being mean. Because if you legitimately want them to suffer, then…well, isn't turnabout fair play?
(The game isn't balanced around solo queue. SWF versus killer is pretty balanced, some things excepted).
@danielmaster87 said:
You might have misworded it, but in case you were talking about something else: the devs aren't okay with 4-minute bleedouts, but they are okay with survivors hiding for 10-20 minutes. Seems like a pretty biased addressing of the problem to me.
It is what it is. If they wanted it fixed, it would be fixed already.
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858724#Comment_3858724
That's not the flip side of it. A survivor still has a shot at escape. As the game says in the intro death is not an escape. So why should you just die when you have a chance to escape?
Whereas in the killer's situation they killed the majority of the team. They won. It's not a knock against your skill as a killer if one survivor is lucky enough to get the hatch or open an exit.
The killer in that situation has the power to take their win and end the match. Instead many will subject someone to bleeding out on the floor while they search high and low trying to find the final survivor. All because they just want that perfect shiny 4k.
There's no scenario, other than doing adept, where the killer looks good for putting a player through a bleed out on the floor just so they can have a perfect 4k. They're entitled to of course, but it sucks to stretch a match out and waste people's time for ego reasons like that.
Hatch - minor concern, mostly because BM can be annoying.
Hiding - major concern. Especially if they somehow manage to unhook or pick up.
It's easier just to camp the slug. Sucks, but hunting all over the map for 2 survivors who want to troll sucks more.
@CrypticGirl said:
I believe this is one of the big reasons for Survivors throwing on first hook. They don't want to potentially end up in this stalemate if the Killer gets their first hook too early.
If people are asking "Why don't Survivors just give up?" in this situation, they should understand why Survivors usually give up a lot earlier.
Survivors give up because they want to go to the next game. I'm completely against it, but I understand. Time is valuable.
Now, apply this logic to 2 survivors potentially taking the match hostage in a way BHVR does not seem to want to fix or take action on. Slugging is preferable.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858552#Comment_3858552
Why not just give up and concede the game though? You know the killer is going to keep looking for you and all you're doing is wasting everyone's time.I'll take a different tact here then a lot of responders. So our scenario is we have two survivors, one slugged, one up, and a killer who want to find the one up, why more emphasis on the killer:
1: Best case scenario, even if the up survivor just starts spamming noise to indicate their location, its still going to be a longer wait for the slugged survivor then if they were just hooked. I pretty much always just give myself up if the killer wants to slug as I hate the thought of making that slugged survivor just sit for 4 minutes, but even then it can be awhile for them to get to me, down me, and then potentially walk back to the slug, hook them first, come back to me, mori or hook me, when they could have just hooked the slug at the start. Someone is still stuck in the game longer than if there was just a hook and then a hatch play.
2: Just on an enjoyment / psychology front: we all agree the slugged survivor isn't having fun, but hiding out as the survivor can be enjoyable. You're camped out in a bush or locker, watching the killer searching around, hoping you don't get found as the meter ticks down, anticipating that mad race towards the hatch. It still has the DbD elements for that player. I've met a few killers who claim to enjoy that search, but usually people think it is boring and pointless.
So the slugged survivor thinks, 'Why are we doing this?', the killer thinks 'Why are we doing this?', while the up survivor thinks 'I know what I'm going for.' It just doesn't make sense for the Killer to engage in an action that they themselves find unenjoyable.
- I'll generally hook right away unless I suspect there's a save incoming. Then I'll either give hatch or gate if I find hatch first. Thing is - maybe half the time the survivor will still sit in the gate teabagging until I chase them out which is frustrating. If it's been an annoying day that'll often be enough to make me unlikely to give the next group much mercy.
- I cannot stand hiders. I'd rather face the sweatiest, most BM looper in the entire game than someone who wastes my time to that degree.
However, here's the problem.
Scenario 3.
3. I down survivor 1. I can try for a pickup, but let's say survivor 2 has BGP and a flashlight, or 1 goes down on a pallet. Now I cannot help but slug or…well, see the sentence after next. So I can camp a slug or go hunting for the last one. I choose the latter, survivor 1 sneaks around, gets survivor 2 up and then I have 2 people hiding because now both want hatch. And this can go on until server closes.
Isn't it better for all involved not to chance it?
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@Akumakaji said:
One small change that could help at least a little bit in this regard would be this: a hatch escape still counts as the kill for the killer, so that they can Adapt or claim a 4K challenge or bonus or whatever. It would take out a couple more of the driving forces behind killers feeling the tangible need to 4K.
The game could also acknowledge somehow that a 3K with hatch escape is a win for the killer, and instead of getting a luke warm reception from the Entity, it could give a "Entity sated", "Entity feasting on fear and despair" or "happy Entity" kinda post-game resolution, thus making the killers feel that they won. Yeah, it might be an ego thing for some, but because of the assymetric nature of the game, very often the survivor who got hatch will go to great length to gaslight the killer into believing that they didn't win. Its not a big thing for most, but it CAN sting, especially if the escaped survivor was a mean bully all game long, so the game acknowledging the win could go a long way into making killer players more content with what they got.
It's a good idea, but also - fix the tricks that allow people to avoid AFK crows.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858610#Comment_3858610
What do you mean what is the killer supposed to do. Who's putting the gun to their head and forcing them to drag out a match and leave someone slugged because their ego is not content with a 3k.
Nobody. That's their choice. I don't know where you're going with the hypothetical scenario you just conjured up there. I am talking about when there's two survivors left, one gets found and caught, left slugged for several minutes because the killer for what ever reason other than pride or ego, just has to have the 4k so badly that they're willing to waste people's time and drag a match out longer than it needs to be.
It's a common occurrence.
You are. I'm not.
Slugging 1 person while you look for the other is kind of nasty, but again - whenever I give hatch, maybe half the time I get a survivor sitting on it or in the gate waiting for me so they can teabag and BM.
Ever consider that maybe, if instead the survivor would be mannered and maybe a bit appreciative killers would be less reluctant to be mannered in turn?
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858608#Comment_3858608
I’m sorry, I thought saying “affected” was respectful because I don’t know exactly how you’re feeling, only that you’re feeling something, and I was trying to acknowledge the feeling without labeling it. Sorry if I upset you, it wasn’t the intent.
To try and wrap it up, I’ll try to simplify and better explain my perspectives.Killer slugs 2nd to last survivor for 4k —> slugged survivor annoyed because they have no agency and feel time is being wasted —> killer annoyed because last standing survivor won’t concede and feel time is being wasted —> standing survivor annoyed that killer is doing anything they can to kill —> killer is annoyed that survivor is doing anything they can to survive
To me, It’s the same thing on both “sides”. And when it comes to preventing “BM”
Killer slugs 2nd to last survivor to prevent possible BM in hiding —> survivor hides to prevent possible BM of bleed out.
Both have faced frustrating BM that could potentially be done to them if they allow the possibility, therefore both try to deny the possibility.
You could say that getting bled out for 4 min isn’t as bad as someone hiding for 20, but that person that is hiding could only be trying to prevent being bled out for 4 min. If trying to “prevent that potential BM from Killer” is not justified, but “prevent the potential BM from Survivor” is justified, then that feels like saying that some “griefing” should be allowed because it could potentially stop other “griefing” that that individual personally deems to be worse. When instead, I think “griefing” as a whole should be discouraged and not defended.
I would 100% be on board with a built in aura reveal mechanic at end game if there are only 2 survivors left and it activates when they haven’t touched a gen in “X” amount of time. And I am 100% on board with a built in anti-slugging mechanic put in place to prevent bleed outs, or prolonged slugging, even in a slug for 4k situation. I don’t think it’s fair to be okay with one but not the other, as both can be disengaging and possibly BM for all players.
Anyway, I think I’ll end it here, as Im not trying to change your mind, only discuss the topic and I think we’ve done so to a good point, so I won’t clog your post anymore haha. Thanks for posting the discussion and giving your perspective. If anything I said came across as offensive or invalidating please know that wasn’t my intent. Have a good rest of your day/night! ✌️However you try to couch it, 4 minutes is better than the entire match duration until the server closes.
Killers have been asking for some way to stop people hiding like that and whenever they do - well, just go look at those threads yourself. 'Game is hide and seek bruh, its not a big deal killers need to stop crying hur hur lololol'. We've got some in this thread already.
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@Nazzzak said:
It's about having respect for people's time. These are people, just like yourself, wanting to enjoy a game, just like yourself, and instead of just hooking them in a game they've already lost you want them to lay on the ground to feed your own ego. Also, you can rant about survivors hiding all you like, but the game is literally advertised on the site to potential buyers as a "deadly game of hide and seek." Most survivors in my experience do not hide anyway outside of low MMR.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XRDVCKS0SD6Q/screenshot-20241219-050240-chrome.jpg
I see it pretty often. Definitely multiple times a week. No idea about my MMR. Why should I risk having way more of my time wasted?
Why is this on the killer? Can't the hiding survivor respect everyone's time?
Also - that's spurious and you know it. Are you really twisting a blurb into it being okay to take a match hostage for the better part of an hour?
@alpha5 said:
TL/DR: Better to waste 4 minutes while people bleed out while 1 hides than 20+ minutes because that 1 got someone up/unhooked and now I've got 2 hiding…
Why would you allow the unhook in the first place?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858552#Comment_3858552
As soon as the killer finds one of the last 2 survivors it is entirely on them how long the rest of the game will last. Nice try shifting the blame though.
You cannot always prevent the unhook unless you're in basement or something. And now all that happens is the QQ shifts from 'omg killer slugged for 4k' to 'omg killer proxy camps'.
But okay then.
Let's say I've got 1 on hook, 2 roaming.
They could be doing the last gen, but they could decide to just hide indefinitely, either waiting for me to find one so the other can get hatch, but more likely to BM or try to get me to leave the match.
You've literally got people in this thread defending this because 'DbD is actually hide and seek bruh'.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Definitely not an exaggerated problem. I see it so often. Games dragged out longer than they need to be because the killer just has to have the 4k. Some poor soul is left on the floor getting their time wasted for several minutes because of it.
Again, what is the killer supposed to do?
Let's say I've got 3 survivors left. I slug one, then chase the person waiting to pallet save and slug them too.
If I hook one, the third survivor who's probably hiding in a bush or a locker nearby gets the other up and now they're both hiding. A game that would have been over in 4 minutes max is now going to last until it times out.
I think a lot of killers would also be much more willing to give hatch/gate if survivors would just leave and not sit there to teabag.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858597#Comment_3858597
At the end of the day, the goal should be a game that feels balanced and enjoyable for both sides. Ruthless play might solve your immediate frustration, but it also perpetuates a cycle where both sides feel justified in playing “mean” leading to more toxicity overall. It’s worth thinking about solutions that improve the experience for everyone rather than just doubling down on what is generally acknowledged to be a very frustrating system. (Hatch included)
I’m sure BHVR is not going to disable slugging all together, (and they shouldn’t) more than likely it will be limitations or adding more risk to doing so (perhaps by proximity, as in the farther a killer leaves from the downed survivor the faster the recovery time or something along those lines) like the anti-tunneling or anti-camping mechanics. The only people it will hurt are those who rely too heavily on it.
I can tell you’ve been really affected by some rude people, and I’m really sorry for that. But those times those people were “playing mean” to you could be using the exact same justification for “playing mean” that you’re using now. And then it gets messy because it’s comparing and pitting people’s hurtful experiences against one another, and when you start measuring different people’s painful experiences and trying to decide who suffered more or whose pain is “more valuable” it leads to invalidation of feelings or experiences which creates even more resentment or frustration. And it’s just a very messy painful cycle for everyone.
…What?
I'm not 'affected', just irritated. Nobody likes being gloated at. But there is a difference between playing mean/sweaty and taking the game hostage (two survivors hiding forever, and no - nobody has ever been banned for that, whatever that post from 2020 claims).
I don't, as a rule, slug for the 4k unless it's a BM team. But again - I've had this exact situation occur, probably 2-3 times a week. Game is mine, so last few survivors decide to play hide and seek forever, while avoiding AFK crows, to waste my time in the hopes that I quit.
Again - 4 minutes of bleeding out is preferable to 20+ minutes of survivors hiding in a locker somewhere. I wonder how many of these 'I'm slugging while I hunt for the hider' is to prevent this exact situation?
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Yeah I saw this and just stopped there. That's really silly.
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@hermitkermit said:
I get where you’re coming from but I think there’s a disconnect here. Slugging survivors “for the 4k” and then blaming the last survivor for not conceding doesn’t address the root issue, it just shifts responsibility. Survivors hidingfor hatch is a direct response to the way the game has gone, it’s the reaction not the causation. If on the killer side slugging is meant to secure a 4k then playing for hatch is just the equivalent strategy on the survivor side. Both tactics prolong the match but singling out the survivor for “wasting time” ignores the fact that the killer chose to create that situation by slugging in the first place.
A big part of the frustration stems from the lack of engagement for everyone else left on the ground. Slugging removes any chance for the slugged survivors to participate, and they’re just stuck waiting, unable to do anything.
Playing a “bit mean” to avoid feeling bad about possible gloating survivors may feel satisfying in the moment, but it’s ultimately just encouraging a continuation of “mean” play from both sides. It just perpetuates the mindset that anyone who hurt them in a past experince can be used as justification for hurting someone else. Eye for an eye and everyone’s blind. It’s not always easy to be kind, I understand, but that doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing to do, even if it doesn’t feel as satisfying as revenge.It's not just to prevent hatch.
It's:
- To prevent getting BM'd/gloated at.
- To prevent that last survivor getting a slug up and then 2 survivors griefing or attempting to get the killer to DC by hiding and taking the game hostage. Again, it's 4 minutes of wasted time versus way longer as at least if people bleed out, I can close hatch and start the collapse.
I don't BM, but I will 100% play ruthlessly if that's what it takes. Slugging isn't much fun for the killer either, but it's way less annoying than two survivors playing hide and seek forever.
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@DeBecker said:
Why are survivors not allowed to play for the escape, but killers are meant to get a 4k? Biased opinion.
Not sure if you even read the post.
Both are at fault for causing a stalemate, but from the killer's POV it's either waste people's time slugging while looking for the last hider or risk that hider getting someone up, now resulting in two people hiding forever as now hatch won't spawn.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858571#Comment_3858571
Down and hook the first one you find, problem solved.
They crawled under a pallet. I know one of the other two has BGP.
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858572#Comment_3858572
People who teabag on hatch after a normal 3k are sore losers though. We already established that a 3k is a loss and survivor BM for a 3k is the "I went 0-2, it was close tho" of dbd
I don't think the game works quite like that. If I recall, the closest BHVR has come to defining a win state for killers is 'the game is 4 1v1s' or something to that effect.
3k being a win is something…I think Otz came up with, or some other community member. It's not official.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858541#Comment_3858541
people have BM'ed me in chat after games where I got every result from intentionally never trying to get a hit (and thus a 0k) to a 4k. it has nothing to do with the result they got and everything to do with their mindset going into the endgame and a little bit of how they perceived you to be playing. They're doing that specifically to annoy you, either because they just entered the game angry, or they thought you were trying to make the game unfun (often because they entered the game angry).
It's the same as a killer who humps a slug on the ground; or tries to bleed out survivors for 4 minutes, but then when he sees the survivors have given up and are willing to be bled out to end the game, forces them to do gens instead. (both of these I saw in the course of an hour last night on a survivor player's stream)
BM from sore losers is better than BM from sore winners, every single time.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858541#Comment_3858541
The difference is that the killer can end the standoff without any problems whatsoever, because they have already won. The survivor can't.
If they don't hide for the hatch, they die. Both sides have their roles but the decisions they have to make are different, with different impacts. They are not always comparable.
Again - the fact that people will sit on hatch or in the gates to force the killer watch them leave shows that clearly survivors don't consider 3k a loss - otherwise why gloat?
Because unfortunately toxic players exist, in both sides. I've recently had a killer call me and the other survivors "pathetic" when they couldn't get a single a kill. I've had one Trapper player complain endlessly about gen rushing when he didn't even try to patrol the gens, just spent the entire game chasing Renato and still failed to kill him.
I've also had to endure a lot of toxicity from survivors recently because I've been playing Skull Merchant.
Every game and fandom has its fair share of toxic individuals.
I've got 1 dead. 1 gen left. I down someone, they crawl under a pallet. I find the other survivor and down them. Third survivor is hiding.
I then hook the first survivor. Hiding survivor reemerges and pops the other slug up. Now I've got two people playing hide and seek and stalling the game out rather than 1.
@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858552#Comment_3858552
Why not use your 1 million aura perks or whispers or spies? why not hook the third person and proceed the game?, if you waste survivors time, you deserved your time wasted simple. Again killers has the power to proceed the game, stop acting as if its only a survivor thing only thing. I play killer at times and I do not care if the 4th get hatch or not. Every min of my time is valuable, so sorry am not that try hard.
- Hiding survivors use lockers and a few tricks to avoid crows. Aura perks won't work. Neither will spies.
- If your time is valuable, why not just concede and go to the next game, rather than wasting everyone else's time?
- If there are three survivors left, the risk is that while I hook one, the other gets up and can then hide indefinitely because I cannot spawn hatch. It's smarter to just slug and wait for the bleedout in that situation. 4 minutes of time wasted as opposed to 20 minutes.
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@buggybug said:
Lord am tired of the same thing over and over, as the person above says the killer has the ability to progress the game by hooking all the diwn survivors if its all 4 slugged or incase of 1 v 2 down the killer can hook the third getting an automatic win of a 3k. I do not get why this need to be in every topic and why some who claims themselves survivors wanna seem to defend killers who do this.
Why not just give up and concede the game though? You know the killer is going to keep looking for you and all you're doing is wasting everyone's time.
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858541#Comment_3858541
For someone who always gives hatch, you seem quite upset about 3ks.
No. But it does grind my gears a little that killers are given 100% of the blame for 'slug for 4k' scenarios when the hiding survivor is just as responsible for continuing the stalemate.
I'll also happily admit that people gloating that they got hatch/gate makes me less likely to give other survivors hatch/gate for the rest of the day. I'd rather be whinged at by sore losers than gloated at by a sore winner.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858518#Comment_3858518
Hook the 3rd person and leave it to RNG.
Why?
Note: I almost always give hatch or gate. But the whole '3K is a win' isn't official, otherwise nobody would sit on hatch gloating or BM in postgame because they got away.
@GeneralV said:
The killer chooses to slug, not the survivor.
In situations like the one you've described, a survivor might try to hide because it is the only thing they can do. That is just how the survivor role is designed.
As a killer, however, I usually just take the 3k because that is already a victory. It doesn't really matter if the last one gets lucky with the hatch, I've already won the game.
Slugging for the 4k is just unnecessary.
In the same vein, hiding for the hatch is unnecessary.
Killer role is designed to kill. Survivor role is designed to survive. A dumb hiding standoff stalemate is the fault of both parties.
Again - the fact that people will sit on hatch or in the gates to force the killer watch them leave shows that clearly survivors don't consider 3k a loss - otherwise why gloat?