Equinox_One
Equinox_One
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860338#Comment_3860338
4 people on the ground at 5 gens in OP's post.
Which in isolation means…nothing. OP is acting cagey.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860337#Comment_3860337
Your definition is wrong, sorry.
Elaborate and show your work.
It's a pretty common sense definition.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860317#Comment_3860317
Distortion, IW
Literally half of my regular, usual build.
Context is for kings.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860312#Comment_3860312
Load up the map 20 times and tell me how many out of those 20 those 3 hooks don't spawn. I'll wait. I guarantee it will be under 1 time.
🙄
There are several parts of the map where you can be unhookable with BO. They might have had someone caught out of position, tried to rescue them and it snowballed.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860300#Comment_3860300
You did not define what a bully squad is, and to prevent the ambiguity of that phrase, I defined it for you. What's a bully squad in your opinion? A 4 man swf? Someone who brings perks that prevent you from hooking? A gen rush build? 4 medkits? See how this is a useless phrase to define? A bully squad is subjective, but no matter what way you define it, slugging for 4 minutes when you are able to hook someone is unsportsmanlike conduct in my opinion.
Griefers and bully squads are not the same. Griefers throw matches for their own team. Killers would not be complaining to the rooftops about bully squads if they benefit them (assuming that bully squads mean griefers).
OR, here's a funny idea, they hid the perks to try and avoid what you're doing right here: dismissing the fact that the killer COULD have hooked them, but chose to slug them out because killers will find a way to justify their bad manners.
I did. Several times.
But sure, I'll do it again.
A bully squad = a group of griefers. They aren't just looking to win as effectively as possible, they are looking to mess with the killer in a negative way.
Also - note how you're the only one doing us versus them.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860137#Comment_3860137
######### is a toxic perk build?
Sweaty perk builds, annoying perk builds, sure, but how can perks be toxic?
What is a sweaty perk build?
Running high tier perks isn't toxic.
If it's stuff like multiple BOs, Flashbangs, maybe sabo, BGP etc. for a griefer squad who basically just want to meme and hold the game for as long as possible or it's stuff like Distortion, IW, CS etc. to play hide and seek and be as difficult to locate as possible.
Now I'm not saying this is what the OP's squad had. But I am saying that it could be, and by hiding the perks it's impossible to know.
It's like me saying 'oh, Mary hit me'. 'Oh really? Can you prove it?'. 'Yeah of course, I have a video' (shows a 3 second clip from a 2 minute video). 'Can I see the context for that?" 'NO YOU DONT NEED TO SEE THE REST OF THE VIDEO SHUT UP'.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860301#Comment_3860301
Considering where the OP is currently slugged, which I guarantee is next to at least 3 hooks within 8 seconds of carrying (one by lower window next to the breakable door of the main building, one behind the building they're looking at, and one in the middle of the street next to the wagon pallet in front of main building) I would say this is unlikely, but I do agree that playing against that can be tedious.
Sure. Because (insert another hypothetical scenario that's becoming increasingly pointless without seeing the perks).
It's not just tedious. I had a group, granted a while back, that were good enough and coordinated enough players that I simply could not hook anyone. The game lasted around 30 minutes before I just went AFK.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860305#Comment_3860305
Laughs in Lightborn. Best perk in the game.
In all seriousness though, we know for a fact this isn't the case in OP's post. The killer is picking someone up, and the specific spot where OP is downed is not an unhookable spot, there are plenty of hooks around.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860309#Comment_3860309
I agree.
Can you imagine a situation where an unhookable squad made a mistake, one got slugged out of position and it cascaded from there?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860277#Comment_3860277
Well, I think it is worth pointing out the only exception, Boil Over, because it can be literally impossible to hook someone with that perk.
But even if there was a Boil Over player, it it would be very difficult for all 4 survivors to have the perk and crawl to unhookable spots.
Other than Boil Over, I agree. There isn't a single perk that a survivor can bring which justifies this level of slugging.
If it's an unhookable group, it'd be something like BO, Flashbang+BGP, sabos and sometimes MoM in a coordinated group. They'll send you to DDS, Ormond, Asylum and a few others where there are spots you cannot hook from especially if there's bodyblocking and meme on you until you DC.
Or you slug everyone and they post salty threads on the forums with the perks blanked out I guess.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860150#Comment_3860150
Does a bully squad justify slugging everyone for 4 minutes? News flash, just because someone brought a flashbang doesn't mean they're in a 4 man swf. Just because someone brought dead hard doesn't mean they're in a 4 man swf. No matter what perk combination a survivor runs doesn't mean they are in a 4 man swf bully squad, full stop.
Nothing justifies slugging someone out for 4 minutes. Nothing. It is pure pettiness any way you slice it. 4 minute slugging in my opinion should be a reportable offense under unsportsmanlike conduct.
Also I hardly consider an accurate observation of the situation confirmed not only by the OP, but following comments from killer players as an "us vs them" interpretation any fault of mine for knowing what was going to happen next.
It depends on the bully squad. If it's an unhookable group or a hide and seek group, absolutely justified and probably shortens the game rather than wasting my time.
I never said 'brought a flashbang' or 'had a dead hard'. I said a bully squad. A group who is out to be jerks and make the killer have a bad game.
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860145#Comment_3860145
Blight, nurse, spirit, hag, wraith, etc. all say hello.
It's a Chucky. Post nerf Chucky. And wraith? What?
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860139#Comment_3860139
Yep. Most killer mains will always find an excuse as to why their bad manners were "justified." Some of the comments here really are case in point.
It's funny how you us versus them while claiming the other side is us versus themming. 'Killer mains'…
@Lixadonna said:
It's hilarious to see mental gymnastics about the Perks. Like even blocking out the Perks and people focus on the Perks and not the actual behavior and whether it's so called "deserved." Somehow it's always Survivor's fault for this kind of stuff and not just a Killer going into a match to do this.
I play 100% Solo so it's impossible for me to be a "bully" or run perceived bully Perks.
Then show us the perks. Very, very easy. If this is just you playing solo and not a griefing group, you don't even need to do anything much to prove it. Because I smell pork pies.
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860137#Comment_3860137
Toxic build is subjective. To one person, a toxic build has prove thyself only, to another it's 4 second-chance perks. Hidden perks means it is irrelevant to the discussion because, either way, no matter what perks a survivor runs, slugging everyone for 4 minutes is never justified, even if they are running meta perks.
There's a name for this but it escapes me. We're following the standard definition of bully squad. Griefers. If it's an unhookable group, slugging is the only way to deal with them.
Now sure, the killer could just be a jerk. But in that case, the OP would have no reason to hide the perks.
As my grandmother would say: 'this smells funny and I'm not going to eat it'.
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@jamally093 said:
Almost every match it's just slugging I had a Hag who slugged with NOED. I get yes at the end of a match killers need to secure at least a kill but you have NOED just hook the person and done. Speaking of NOED I know 99% the gate makes sure something like Blood Warden is prevented and just makes where people have a chance of getting near the gate and escaping but with NOED it's a massive screw it and leave don't start trying to risk getting downed because you have to open the gate then book it to the exit.
Anyways I've tried taking breaks from the game just because of the slugging I'm come back once in a while either because I want to just play a bit or have challenges but man do some folks know how to ruin the event for everyone.
Uh, what?
Either you should start immediately playing the lottery or you're massively exaggerating. Or you're talking exclusively about endgame which, yes, is slug heavy because that's often the only way left for the killer to win.
I've played maybe 50 odd games on survivor this event and I've had a single killer who wanted to slug everyone, outside of endgame, and they lost.
That said:
There's playing to win and there's playing to waste everyone's time and be a griefer. If it's happening outside of endgame then yes, that killer is a butt.
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It's something about the event. Every year. It brings the grinches out in force.
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@Rudjohns said:
Instead of penalty for being injured, it's a penalty for being healthy?
With a quick change in the values, maybe a flat out 5% for each survivor
It would look like this- Each healthy Survivor afflicts Survivors with a stack-able 5 % Action Speed penalty to Repairing, Sabotaging, and Cleansing, up to a maximum of 20 %.
It promotes survivors staying injured and becoming an easier prey
It also helps the problem of the first gen popping way too fast at the beginning of the match
It addresses a lot of issues with Legion and PlagueIt's a cute idea, but would probably be too strong on instadown killers or too weak on everyone else.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860109#Comment_3860109
Imma keep it 💯 with you gamer, I think the overlap between "goes for pallet save in a 2v1" and "hides for 20-30 minutes" can best be described as slim to none
It's rare. But it's also annoying enough that I'll play mean if I have to.
There are a fair few people who want to play hide and seek (note the folks defending it as a legit tactic in this thread). I see 2v1 saves every few matches. It's not like the overlap is that small.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435110/why-do-killers-play-so-sweaty-a-rant
If it isn't the consequences of using MMR.
I played pre MMR.
It was worse. So much worse.
Streamers and even a Fog Whisperer would openly derank, which was easy as hell to do. I quit a few times starting out because of how hard I'd get pooped on, game after game after game. I think I've still got photos from the era of the 3-4man SWFs who sat at newbie ranks and just rolled people all day.
MMR isn't perfect. It sometimes poops the bed, especially when lobby dodges happen. Us not being able to see our number and our opponents' number (postgame) makes it impossible to know what's happening when a really weird game comes along.
However, unless I stop playing in an SWF as a survivor (I'll start losing endlessly because I'm out of my depth MMR wise I think) or there's a lobby dodge when I'm on killer, it's actually not too bad most of the time. I mostly face other people with 3-9k hours which is about my range. I think I 'win' about half of my matches (3k or 3o).
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860119#Comment_3860119
Says to me either toxic build so ye they deserve it or didn't go into the match equipped to deal with the oh so common slugging. hidden perks says something to hide.
Nah the fact that's it's all hidden means maybe 90% chance it's a bully squad trying to ruin someone's day and got humbled and 9.9% chance it's a hide and seek squad. 20% chance this is just a griefer. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered hiding the perks.
@AlexXHunter44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860148#Comment_3860148
Yeah btw I didn't mean to sound rude if I did. I don't personally like slugging, even as killer I only do it strategically like if the second survivor is right in my view or being dumb. 4 man slugs are lame but gd someone on the teams gotta get the pickup or at least stick on gens if he camps the slug 😭
I think the big issue with this event is there's nothing good to interact w. Survivors can't really use the snowmen bc of how junky the AI moves and snowballs get boring so it's just become a sweat fest
It's also got really bad BP rewards as events go, blood hunt or no blood hunt and the mechanics are mostly boring, with how you can just nuke snowmen with snowballs so it's hard to do anything creative for either side.
@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860119#Comment_3860119
See, you know what's up. It's irrelevant to the point.
It's 100%, absolutely relevant. Because the OP tends to have…let's say a bias and there would be no reason to hide the perks if this wasn't a griefing squad of some sort.
I'm going to bet it's an unhookable group, as there's a few spots on DDS that can be unhookable with Boil Over and any sort of body blocking.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860098#Comment_3860098
Less things for killer mains on the forums to bring in as an excuse on how the survivors "deserved it."
Or this was a huge bully squad that went out of their way to be annoying. Or a griefer squad who wanted to hide and seek all game. Or something in between.
Or it's nothing at all.
The fact that you immediately went to us versus them nonsense, the fact that this seems to be a pretty consistent thing with you to the point where you seem to genuinely hate killer players, combined with this needless bit of obfuscation is…let's just say it's tickling the 'suspicious' part of my brain.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858956#Comment_3858956
So, two things here:
First, the killer stun was 3s, but the animation for the survivor was about 1.4s. So even successfully using this perk only have you about 1.6s of distance, since you were also animation locked (stunned) yourself after activation.
I'll also add that their first swing at extending the stun back to 5s also increased the animation time, so the survivor was animation locked for about 2.2s instead. They made the perk objectively worse for everyone involved, then settled on 4s, simply because they only wanted survivors to get about 2 seconds of distance off this perk.
Second, with the endless "maps are bad" complaints, maps have been nerfed, tiles nerfed, pallets nerfed, and dead zones are everywhere. "Just get to a good place to use it" is insanely tone deaf in 2024 DbD. That might've worked fine in 2020 or earlier when there were actual resources to use. The only resource that's gotten better over time is hooks now respawn, so it's even easier for killers to hook in a dead zone.
AFAIR, the animation time thing was a bug, and DS has been a very buggy perk on and off in general.
Do you have a source on them only wanting 2s? Because I could swear it's longer than that. It's certainly longer than a pallet stun.
Maps are…maps. For every Haddonfield or Nostromo, you also have a GoJ or Ormond. Most of the maps though are relatively balanced for the most part, a few problem loops/structures notwithstanding. And they're always being tweaked, as we recently saw with Midwich.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858229#Comment_3858229
BHVR couldn’t even give Decisive Strike—the premier anti-tunneling perk—5 seconds—2 of which are the animation. Killer mains complained so much they reverted the negligible buff it was going to get and effectively wasted everyone’s time.
Didn't it just get buffed?
But yes, DS was overnerfed. See also - SC, CoB, OC, STBFL…I could keep going. Oh, also Skull Merchant. Sadly it's a thing that happens sometimes. It's still excellent, unless you're fighting one of the big 2 at high MMR. Who are their own thing.
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858375#Comment_3858375
You must not ever play survivor if you think windows or adrennaline are going to have much of an impact at all on eacaping or not. Also if those are crutch perks than every single killer power is a crutch. With how killer sided thia game is now an m1 killer with no power can probably get almost 50% kills.
I play about as much survivor as I do killer.
You are wrong.
WoO isn't just a really, really comfy perk for everyone and also gives you absolutely vital information like what pallets are still up or what windows spawned.
Adrenaline was absolutely broken for years upon years upon years upon years. It was probably a monster of a perk for longer than DH was. And even after the nerf it's still good.
I'd check your fly, your bias is showing.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859132#Comment_3859132
I did not mean for it to be an argument. I meant for it to be an observation.
I’m not going to even entertain an argument with anyone who feels this is acceptable because we are never going to agree and we are never going to change each other’s minds. Not everything needs to be polemic.
That's…hmm. Either I'm misunderstanding or you're using that word wrong.
Regardless, if you aren't interested in having a discussion, why are you posting in this thread?
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860068#Comment_3860068
pallet stun areas make up roughly 0.01% of the pathable parts of dbd maps
Haha what?
I'll see you Nostromo and raise you The Game. It's almost hard to not go down on a pallet there. But sure, replace pallet stun with a good sabo. Or a flashbang, which still seems to be possible to drop inside models with BGP (although this could simply be very good timing plus getting latency'd).
I'm trying to say that there are reasons to try and kill the last two at the same time because it stinks getting stuck in a game forever because two people want to be BM, or are simply both trying for hatch.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
BBQ and WGLF was changed a long while ago to remove their Bloodpoint effects in favor of a Role Incentives giving a bonus amount of Bloodpoint.
It is a direct downgrade, since you can no longer play the role you want and have to play the role with Role Incentives; and there is no guarantee that the Role Incentive will even be at +100% for that given role. There is also the fact that the Role Incentive can also vary in what role it favors depending on time of day or region which leads to inconsistency throughout the day.
But I think a very important aspect of this has never really been addressed by BHVR… what happens if there is a 4:1 ratio consistently going forwards?
To be more specific, the Role Incentive is only available if there is not a 4:1 ratio of Survivors to Killers. If a 4:1 ratio is accomplished, there is no Role Incentive, thus there is no Bloodpoint Bonus… in terms of reducing DBD's grind, this would result in things taking longer to unlock since you do not gain extra Bloodpoints.
Furthermore, if the Role Incentive only goes up to +100% (similar to old WGLF and old BBQ) for Normal Playlists, this leads to an issue of the Role Incentive not really being worth it most of the time. There really is no reason to play a given role for +25% Bloodpoints or +50% Bloodpoints, especially if you have Survivor Pudding, Escape Cakes, or Bloody Party Streamers on a specific character/role.
I think the only (good) use case that Ive seen for Role Incentives has been when 2v8 first came out… but even then it required manual tweaking on BHVR's end since the Role Incentives on their own was too little. +400% Bloodpoints was really good and the gamemode was good for Score Event (actions that give you Bloodpoints) so it was a good way of grinding.
Back when Role Incentives came out, I use to play the role that had the Role Incentive the entire time, until I eventually realized that the increased Bloodpoints I was gaining was generally not worth it compared to just using what characters already have Bloodpoint offerings. Maybe it could help new players, but outside that I really dont see the point in them, the only time they were actually effective was when BHVR manually tweaked Role Incentives themselves for a specific event.
Role incentives were, if I recall, added to help with queue times and the corresponding issues that long waits would give matchmaking, especially at higher levels of play.
Honestly though, BP feels less and less relevant by the day.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859909#Comment_3859909
Yes it was there but I felt far before 6.1 it was a lot less frequent than today.
Ah. You felt.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859922#Comment_3859922
Be me, killer player
Manage to get 10 hook states and get down to the last two survivors
They're doing a good job stealthing me but I manage to find and knock one of them down
Look around
Can't see where the last survivor is
Try to pick up last survivor
MFW the last survivor hiding makes it literally impossible for me to pick them up and hook the slugged survivor
Sort of?
It's more 'okay the last time I had two left and they went down on the pallet, they got the save, into a blind, into me losing them, into me wasting 20 minutes trying to find two people who are going from locker to locker to avoid crows, because I'm on Cenobite and they hate Cenobite'.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859926#Comment_3859926
Skull merchant what?
'If you don't fix chess merchant people will just mass DC and quit against her forever, in perpetuity'.
Fast forward a year and BHVR had to deliberately make her unplayable to try and get the endless quitting to end, because survivors literally couldn't forgive her because memes.
Go and look at some of the threads after the SM gutting, where survivors were literally saying 'lol not far enough just delete her and not refund anyone for cosmetics lololol serves those SM mains right'.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860011#Comment_3860011
I'm not sympathy baiting.
I'm seriously just done with this topic. Both sides will never give in and I'm done trying to bring some form of peace. Enjoy dealing with these people.
🙄
Yeah. Because I'm the one saying that 'oh survivors can be BM and it's just rude, but when killers do something analogous it's basically SA'.
Also - you've moved from sympathy baiting to…I guess some sort of guilt tripping?
Sympathy tripping?
This is me on toddler amounts of sleep.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859996#Comment_3859996
Sorry, that I was wrong. I'll shut up. Never gonna touch this topic again.
Stahp.
You were wrong. It is fine to be wrong as long as you adapt and adjust.
There is no need to sympathy bait.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859954#Comment_3859954
Is it taking the game hostage, though? While the game does seem to drag on, both sides do have the power to progress the match. It's a bit different from those situations where the Killer bodyblocks a Survivor in the corner where they cannot move or progress the match, and the other three Survivors are dead. That would be taking the game hostage.
That's spurious and you know it.
By the same logic, that survivor isn't forced to stay in the match, they could just quit. Which is just as silly.
Yes, technically I could get lucky and find the CS/NM/Distortion survivor squad going from locker to locker avoiding AFK crows. But it's not something you can reasonably expect.
This is something that BHVR needs to fix beyond 'oh yeah it might be bannable, hope you record all your games anyway' posts from 4 years ago.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859940#Comment_3859940
I've had discussions with people that humping is harmless, told me to grow thicker skin. I had discussions with people that tbagging is harmless. Just in game stuff. What i took from those discussions is, that indicating a real life crime goes way beyond simple taunting. "humping" doesn't leave much to imagination. It's a powerful person "humping" a vulnerable victim on the ground. It's a serious issue that people find this acceptable.
Is tbagging fine? I don't like it. I grew accustom to it. I grew thicker skin so to say.
Just a few months back there was someone writing that they could not play this game anymore due to some killer humping them while playing survivor. This is serious.
I've never seen people say the same about tbagging. Maybe I'm wrong.
Doesn't matter though. Over the years I've tried to improve people's mindsets here. I see that nothing changes. Why bother trying.
You really cannot see how 'humping' and 'teabagging' are, by your own logic, the exact same?
Both are simulating an intimate act in order to irritate the other side. Both are (and again, this is your logic - not mine here) consent violations. You don't get to imply that one is merely BM and the other is virtual (word that rhymes with 'grape'). This is what I'm pointing out as a double standard.
I don't buy into the 'thicker skin' argument. If I had my way, I'd have something like ye olde League of Legends tribunal which took that community from a 12 on the toxicity scale to a 4. But if you want to make it, it applies equally to both and you'd get accustomed to both too, if you played survivor more.
Now, personally - I consider both to be poisonous to the game as a whole. I've recently been playing a lot of Marvel Rivals, where you can get actual bans for saying things like GG EZ. It's fantastic and there is generally minimal BM and a lot of wholesome banter…outside of public voicechat which is a cesspit as expected.
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@BroRespectTheBoop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859947#Comment_3859947
Reported for playing the game? LOL if anyone ever shows evidence of being banned for this im uninstalling the game.
It's technically taking the game hostage, where multiple survivors avoid AFK crows and hide indefinitely without doing gens. But this does not seem to be enforced.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858798#Comment_3858798
Is this a bit? It's quite literally in rules that survivors can be reported for this.
I cannot find even an anecdotal account of someone being banned for hiding. I think this is a case of a lame duck rule that simply isn't enforced, maybe because the game is technically advertised as 'hide and seek'.
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@BroRespectTheBoop said:
Slugging in general has become a problem. Just played against a knockout singularity that decided he was going to slug for the 4k at 5 gens. Never DC'd from a match so fast.
That's more Knockout being a problem. Which…yeah. That perk needs to be changed, it serves no purpose other than being a clown.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859903#Comment_3859903
I'm an individual. Thx.
You know what? You win. Enjoy it.
I'm done trying to tackle the behaviour of the people playing this game. I'll never say anything against it ever again here.
Sorry for trying to be better. It leads to nothing.
Nobody said you weren't an individual, I'm just trying to explain that society applies meaning to lexical terms or phenomena. There was no personal attack here other than what you chose to infer.
What people took issue with was the enormous double standard.
You were basically saying 'well if a killer does something gross that's a serious consent violation but if survivors do something gross it's harmless because reasons'.
Don't sadpost or sympathy fish, it only makes you look bad.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859897#Comment_3859897
I need to make this post into a "don't make me tap the sign" meme
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IB64BH982VQJ/screenshot-20240828-072055-chrome.jpg
Then again, Skull Merchant.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859887#Comment_3859887
I don't like it either. However, if I have to distinguish in-game toxicity between someone crouching and someone intentionally reinacting a real life crime.
The real life crime takes priority in my book
If you want to interpret it that way, then both are a consent violation and both are simulating a certain kind of act. Again, there is a double standard here big enough to sail an aircraft carrier through.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859903#Comment_3859903
You have nothing to do but be a qoute police with your irrelevant points? I just have you join someone else on my ignore list congrads.
A…what?
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859874#Comment_3859874
Oh no they crouched at me 😭 what scum.
Hitting on hook repeatedly is just funny af bc it's usually because you made the killer really mad and short circuit from a long chase lol
Teabagging is a universally accepted BM and has been for years. That's like saying (in response to yelling racial slurs) 'oh no they used words at me'.
Meaning is created by consensus.
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859683#Comment_3859683
Tbagging is not toxic, no. Hitting on hook is not toxic, no. Animation spamming is also not toxic. This is taunting. Fine by me although unpleasant.
Slugging, genrushing, camping and tunneling are also not toxic as isnt using strong loadout.
Humping on the other hand is. Why? Because of what it implies.
…
Anyone want to explain to this individual what teabagging implies?
This is a double standard and you know it.
@buggybug said:
I had two matches last night where in both games ran the killers for all gens, one blight and one knight, both were bad mostly trying to m1 over power lol and in both rounds even though my team literally gave them two hits to do a hook exchange they slug said team mates to still try get me, sad part is one of them was a stream lke myself.
It like bro imagine your a streamer too and your mad cause I 360s and mind game your playing braindead knight and shaking head bming on hook which I had harden so am not even screaming lol. Enjoy that 1k, same with that blight and its funny even though I died O score more points than them.
I get alot of people have this malice towards ttvs and its w.e but when your one yourself it just really shows something and yes killer streamers seem to have intense bias towards ttv survivors.
It is really a pity again that ds dont work in end game no more since bvhr wanna give killers pity kill, in both those games if conspicuous actions did not exist both of them would have 0k.
I read this twice and I still have no idea what your point is…aside from I guess 'killer players bad'?
@AlexXHunter44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859402#Comment_3859402
Okay and so? I face these as killer all the time and they are usually some of the easiest 3 or 4k in the game. They tend to spend time doing everything except generators.
DS only occurs if you are tunneling someone, DH is counterable once you're aware they have it. Sabotage is annoying but you just drop the survivor you're carrying and slug down the person who destroyed the hook. Head on is also annoying but you can play around it.
The items are just items everyone can bring in any match including solo q.
SWf are annoying to play against but bully squads are the easiest type of swf to beat.
You've never faced an actual bully squad then.
One who'll send you to Ormond or Asylum to abuse the unhookable spot, will abuse BGP+the flashbang model glitch or double locker save (yes these have been partially fixed) to ALWAYS 100% save, or who will run stealth perks and go out of their way to waste as much of your time as possible by hiding all over the map and not doing gens to try and make you DC.
You got any streams or videos by the way? You make a lot of claims about your own personal skill at dealing with coordinated hell SWFs and I'm genuinely curious to see.
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@TheVolgun said:
I've always wondered whether or not the game is more or less toxic now than it use to be, I've seen evidence for either argument and I was curious on getting some other insights.
I know some people would just say who cares don't pay attention, if that is you I appreciate you but keep your comments to yourself, this is for people that want to share their thoughtsEarlier this year I move to PC dead by daylight from console of course this provided me the lovely access to the end game chat. I've seen my fair share of toxicity both in game and in the post game, but on the other hand I have also seen a lovely amount of wholesome moments in the very same chat, people encouraging and helping one another.
Having started played the game when huntress was first introduced I think that overall the game has gotten more positive and wholesome, however their are always bad apples in the crowd and in Dbd's case there are a lot of bad apples.
Please share your thoughtsLess, but it still sucks.
One of the big differences is that a lot of the tools that could be used for griefing were fixed, like the spots where a survivor could stand and be impossible to hit or pick up. You could take a match hostage very easily with NM.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
that is allowed to go unpunished in this game.
I watched a streamer who plays Billy and he is extremely good with him but he plays every match by slugging the entire team and bleeding them out in EVERY match.
How is this not considered griefing?
He does it very intentionally to make the experience as miserable as possible for anyone he verses and seems to get great joy from it. He has been streaming on and off for years and every match he seems to go out of his way to make the experience as miserable as possible for everyone else.
Yup. There's a Russian TTV that only hides with the goal of making the killer DC.
This game needs a general jerk fumigation and has for a very long time.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859889#Comment_3859889
Why should a killer who was bad and fail their job to catch someone be awarded a pity kill via ds or otr not working when exit gate power up? They should learn when to drop a chase and stop tunnel so much then qq swf bullies, common sense.
You seem like a nice person.
Why should a survivor who was bad and fail to escape a chase get anti tunnel perks and baseline unbreakable to help them escape more? Hell, why are killers expected to give hatch?
Same answer.
Yes, I'm making a point here.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859752#Comment_3859752
"It would result in [thing that rewards the last survivor doing gens] and [thing that people already complain happens]"
So at worst things stay the same and at best survivors are rewarded for not hiding and doing the objective (or killers are forced to end the game faster)
It would happen more, especially the taking hostage/hide and seek crap.
I think there is a solution to this problem, but I don't think it would work in isolation. Fix hiding (and AFK crows), then do this. Sure.
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@buggybug said:
You are 100% correct and I already saw this, once 6.1 happen, this game just become what it is today, and not to mention ofc its why dc/quitting has been frequent so and constant on survivors.
I disagree. I saw just as many DC/AFK survivors pre 6.1.0 in losing matches. Only difference is that killers won a bit more post 6.1.0 so it technically increased in frequency.
@Iron_Cutlass said:
Patch 6.1.0 changed a large amount of perks for both Survivor and Killer and ultimately shaped the game to what it is today, however, I would love to look back at the perks and content changed in Patch 6.1.0 and see how well the changes hold up in current DBD compared to at the time.
KILLER
First off, I think it would be really important to analyze how the Overcharge and Eruption changes in Patch 6.1.0 ultimately shaped the meta in the months following Patch 6.1.0.
Overcharge and Eruption were insanely power perks (mainly against SoloQ) after the release of Patch 6.1.0 and could further be paired with other Generator-kicking perks such as Call of Brine or Oppression. The strength of these perks was insanely high compared to the amount of immediate effort needed to use them, you got a lot of regression over time for basically doing very little.
This ended up leading to heavy 3-gen playstyles, later being further amplified with Killer releases like Knight and Skull Merchant that lead to Overcharge, Eruption, and Call of Brine being gutted altogether.
Keep in mind that instant regression effects like Pop Goes were nerfed in Patch 6.1.0 leading to very little options for Killers to use outside of using what was the meta at the time. This unfortunately left Killer in this really weird spot where a lot of regression was really not the same or awkward to use. This is among the many things that I consider to be the biggest failure point of Patch 6.1.0; the Killer meta will always be regression and slowdown, and all the Patch served to do was shift things around without exactly solving the issue.
SURVIVOR
Survivor perks were severely nerfed during Patch 6.1.0. Dead Hard was changed to an Endurance perk and continued to plague matches and was often complained about (I personally had no issues with it though). Anti-tunnel perks like Decisive Strike were heavy nerfed, while anti-tunnel perks like Off The Record were buffed.
Specifically with Off The Record, it was insanely easy to counter just by hitting the Survivor immediately off the hook, and since Decisive Strike was insanely situational or required good positioning, it lead to a higher increase of tunneling since Survivors had no meaningful way to counteract tunneling. With the changes to slowdown in the patch, the game saw a massive increase to tunneling since there was little to no risk in doing it, this would continue to affect the game for months.
Furthermore, there were perks that were nerfed only to have their effects (mostly) reverted. The best example of this is Iron Will and Stridor. Iron Will was nerfed from 100% reduction in Grunts of Pain to 75%, and would be disabled while Exhausted. Stridor was changed to proportionally respond to these changes. Iron Will would later be reverted back to 100% reduction in Grunts of Pain but would keep the Exhaustion effect; Stridor would also be reverted back to its former self.
Likewise, Pharmacy received a buff/rework to make it more powerful but through direct and indirect changes to the perk it became worse until eventually it was reverted back to its original version because the newly buffed/reworked version was just objectively a downgrade compared to the original effect. The perk will (most likely) remain niche but it fills a specific niche that people like enough to warrant using.
Honestly. I think Patch 6.1.0 is among DBD's biggest failures. (CLOSING THOUGHTS)
A majority of the changes were incredibly short-sided and unfortunately has left a lot of perks off in a worse state than before, while the perks that were buffed in the update continue to be niche and dont stand as meta options or picks.
It is also important to note how it impacted DBD's ingame culture by increasing tunneling overall and leading the game to force basekit changes to deal with problematic playstyles because a lot of existing issues were just made further worse or were more more apparent to the playerbase.
Unfortunately a lot of the changes from the Patch also pushed the game towards one of the most hated meta to be in the game, the Generator-kicking or 3-gen meta.
This being said. Failures are important, they shape what we are or what we want to be, what is important is that we learn from failures for the sake of self-improvement… and I think this could very well apply to DBD.
EXTRA STATEMENTS
I know Patch 6.1.0 was forever ago, but I feel like the impact it has had on the game still affects the game today. I personally think it might be the most influential Patch the game has ever received. I would love to see a timeline where the ideas and changes made were never finalized and never came out, just to see how different DBD would be today compared to said alternative timeline, since Id imagine them to be very different.
I also wanted to make this since a lot of DBD Forum threads always talk about the now but often never reflect on the past. Retrospective content can often be hit or miss, but I wanted to give my own shot at it and see how it's taken.
I agree and disagree.
Pre 6.1.0 DbD was a way worse place. Survivor queues were absolutely insane because playing killer was a misery so much of the time. The balance definitely leaned more towards killer for a bit, due to stupidly powerful regression perks that could allow a snowball or stalling the match forever.
However, there were several things on the survivor side that were incredibly strong, such as CoH that turned the game into something of an arms race, where whichever side brought the most broken stuff won.
3gen kicking was never a meta. You saw it intermittently at best, as it was also unbelievably boring and tedious for the killer. Stacking the best regression perks, often with a single info perk was (and honestly still is) the meta - which has a lot to do with how few solid lethality perks killers had (STBFL was pretty much the only game in town for a while).
I think the patch was a step in the right direction. Of course balance is an ongoing example of Achilles and The Tortoise in action, but a lot of things were done since then to tone down killers. Regression perks were nerfed hard for the most part. Survivors got a lot of really impactful buffs and the occasional absolutely broken perk (MFT is one of the most irritating things ever added to the game).
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859791#Comment_3859791
That's a good point too: The butchering of BBQ & Chili's and WGLF's 'side quests' made the whole game significantly worse. Before, both killers and survivors could equip these perks to create an alternative win condition that wasn't contingent on the other party losing. Getting four stacks of WGLF would not cost the killer the match, and getting four stacks of BBQ & Chili would not guarantee a 4K. But both were 'wins' in their own right since the BP gain would be incredible.
That whole concept getting removed was awful, and it's really bad that BHVR hasn't thought to re-implement them in some way.
This.
So much this.
WGLF was whatever, but BBQ was one of the healthiest perks in the game.
@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859837#Comment_3859837
Anti tunnel which is only ds and otr is not strong. They both are already useless because of this conspicuous actions put on them and they dont work end game. If they was strong then there am sure there wouldn't be one billion tunneling complain topics.
No. Just…no. Saying OTR is useless is flat out wrong and flies in the face of just common sense.
Having second chance perks not deactivate when doing certain actions was an absolute hellscape (DS…oh boy DS). It's anti-fun for the killer. Having them in the endgame generally denies that 1k which…why would you want to do that?
They are incredibly strong, especially OTR.
Tunneling has always been a thing, and is an essential tactic at the higher ends of play. The counter to it has always been your teammates.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859625#Comment_3859625
Do you honestly think dbd is just like any other game and that the ability to go next on hook isnt being kept in the game by Bhvr. for a very specific reason? If you really think that and that "punishing" players for trying to go next would actually help the game in any way then it just shows how deluded you are about the state of the game in general and that its pointless for me to be discussing it with you. Saying "yes all survivors who have ever left a game should quit and the game will be better off" is almost like saying the game would be better off with no survivor players at all.
Yes. It's in because getting rid of it would be work and BHVR does stuff at a glacial pace. Would require some perks to be redesigned.
Question - should there be a DC penalty? If so, then there is no reason not to want suicides removed aside from pure contrariness.
Also, stop. You're getting straw all over the place. If you can't argue your point without putting words in my mouth, your point wasn't that good to begin with.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859686#Comment_3859686
It does change a lot
It would result in a lot of slug camping and/or 2 survivors playing hide and seek for half an hour.
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@NewChuckyAddons said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859591#Comment_3859591
I know that but the fact that the game cant detect if a spirit is automatically teleporting to survivors and downing them is not good same with the fact each cant detect it also and the fact that aimbot is possible too same with esps on PC(Windows) and its laughable how the game cant detect if a survivor or killer is flying or moving faster than usual etc
Those blatant hacks are 100% detected. But bans happen in waves so the designers of the hack don't know it's detected and a larger number of hackers can effectively be banned.
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858680#Comment_3858680
You realize killers have ways to locate the last survivor? Differing depending on which Killer and their add ons + perks.
I've never been part of a slug for 4k on either side with two survivors left where the first one down even came close to bleeding out. The match ends before that.
The killer wanting a 4k isn't a crime, as survivor there are times I play for the 4 out taking risks or annoying the killer to distract them.
There's nothing wrong with playing to win a game in the best way possible on either side.
Ah, so you're one of those 'I wasn't being BM, I was just trying to get your attention!' types. Joy.
And no. If the survivors are savvy, you cannot locate them on some killers/maps, even with Whispers.
AFK crows should be taking care of it, but there are multiple ways to easily prevent ever getting these, which has been the case forever - and you still see survivors defending it.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859603#Comment_3859603
I played that PTB. What I observed were lethal killers downing people super fast and when the fourth went down the other three were auto-sacrificed while the fourth was mori’d. Matches were ending in 5 minutes. Perhaps it was scrapped for both reasons.
Probably both. I remember videos of people making themselves unhookable with BO and stuff.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859596#Comment_3859596
Stopping hook suicides will do the opposite. It will just make survivors stop playing or purposely throw the game. In my games most of the time when someone goes next on hook it is a game where there was literally no chance to win anyway, it is often easy to tell. There is no chance that stopping hook suicides will do anything about kill rates if anything it would potentially lead to a massive exodus of the games player base.
( now if you are talking about removing this AFTER the game is balanced better, that could be a different story.)
Oh wonderful, we're back to ye olde 'it's not the quitters fault for quitting and ruining games, it's the GAME's fault' silliness.
If someone quits because they cannot freely poop on the match for 4 others, the game is better off without them. That's like saying banning hackers will make them quit.
Good.
There is a reason that most games penalize leavers harshly. All suiciding is, is DCing with no penalty.
People whined about 'OMG the game isn't balanced I shouldn't be punished for DCing' when the DC penalty came back too.
Again - the amount of suicides I see don't even slightly correspond to what killer I'm playing. It's purely a certain kind of person that will not play the match out unless they will escape.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859582#Comment_3859582
If you're so worried about the kinded thing make it so this version of kindred only shows the survivors and not the killer or something. There is definitely a way to make solo survivor closer to swf but the problem is killer mains on these forums melt down because "survivor buffs!!" They want their easy wins against uncoordinated solo squads. If those like you and others on these forums refuse to even let there be a discussion about buffing solo survivor then just get used to more dc's and survivors going next on hook, it is the inevitable comsequence.
That would be fine, and worth a suggestion. Good luck I guess.
As to the rest of it - yup. This is what I'm talking about. You're inferring a negative intent about half the playerbase because…uh…you don't like them I guess? Most 'killer mains' want a balanced game. Easy games get really boring really fast.
At the highest levels of play DbD is fairly balanced. The kill rate stats are misleading because it's easy to secure one kill and DbD is snowbally, plus there are a crapzillion AFKing or suiciding survivors.
If you want to see just how hard it can be for killers against good groups, go watch Hardcore Survivor or some recent tournaments.
Are there things that could be done to help solos? Sure.
Know what the biggest is? Stopping hook suicides. I promise you, do that and you'll see kill rates decline. And before you start up again, I can be the nicest, most chill and sportsmanlike killer you can imagine and I still see a hook suicide in at least a third of my games, which is an auto loss for the survivors. The problem isn't (name a thing), the problem is that people have a penalty free way of bailing on games when they might lose, or just because they might not personally escape.
I have people suiciding on first hook, at 3 gens, against Demo.
Demo.
This isn't a 'killer OP' thing, this is a design flaw.
Go watch some Otz streams and see how many survivors suicide in games that aren't just winnable, they were ahead.
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@NewChuckyAddons said:
The amount of cheaters and hackers I've encountered in game proves that standalone eac is useless because its easily bypassed
I just encountered a Claudette jumping and flying and no clipping and a Trickster with Aimbot who instantly downed all 4 survivors through walls and a spirit who instantly downed and hooked all 4 survivors straight away proves that eac by itself isn't working that great
I think its time to get battle eye alongside eac and for better over lay detection for ESPs etc
It's a neverending arms race, because hacking is a multi-million dollar industry. Even Esport titles…60-100 bucks a month can get you a comprehensive suite of tools.
All that can be done is banning where possible. It sucks. That said, compared to what it was like even a year ago, it's way better now.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859571#Comment_3859571
Why do you keep saying "balance swf and solos differently" when thats not what I suggested. Are you confused? Well you must be to say that killers dont win more which is an objective fact. Solo's very much do need buffs because it is impossible to nerf swf. If swf also gets a small advantage from one of these buffs oh well, if swf and solo are in a closer place at the end then that is still better than before. Like I said, if you're so worried about too many buffs I said killer can then be buffed to compensate after we get swf and solo as close as possible.
Yeah see - it's that 'oh well' that stops this sort of discussion from being germane. Because it demonstrates that you don't really care.
'Just buff killers' doesn't work. We've done this dance before. It's not that simple.
I'm all for helping solos. But it cannot be done in a way that breaks the killer versus SWF balance. Survivors have a choice whether or not to group up. Killers do not have a choice whether or not to face SWFs.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859075#Comment_3859075
I told you what could be done but apparently you.l ignored it unless its in a different post that I didnt see. Make all info perks like kindred, bond and even Woo basekit. Those perks are not going to help players on comms much anyway. Also get rid of perks that are stricly solo que stompers like third seal. Add some sort of conversation system (not voice chat because that causes other problems). Essentially buff solo que massively until they are as close as possible to making the comms advantage of swfs irrelevant. Then if that makes overall kill rates go down too much then buff killer to compensate.
As for your arguments about how "killer doesnt actually win more" im not even going respond beyond this sentance becauae that view is either clueless or disingenuous.
Are you bonkers?
Kindred is incredibly common in SWFs. Very strong perk due to killer aura reading.
BHVR are not going to balance SWF and solos differently. They've said this repeatedly.
Killer doesn't actually win more. Regardless of your sarcasm, it's a logical fact. That stat is, out of context, misleading.
Solos don't need buffs. What solos do need is an easier way to find groups.