Equinox_One
Equinox_One
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@TheGoon224 said:
I am mainly talking about licenses that realistically could happen either due to the license holders being too stingy or literally just because the character that you want it’s just out built different, or maybe the license in general just sounds completely ridiculous in the context of DBD. That’s mainly what I want to talk about here so if you just have a license that is just you know way too out there go right ahead and say it I don’t judge. I wanted Godzilla in for a long time. And honestly, I still Kinda do. ( primarily either Shin or Minus one Godzilla)
Higurashi: When The Cicadas Cry. Give me Rena Ryugu as a killer.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089975#Comment_4089975
…ah.. okay, so collective punishment.
Lie down with the dogs, you get fleas.
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@MilkToast said:
Ok so if im reading this right, survivors can receive more pallets, can make pallets unbreakable??
-constant haste, invincibility, invisibility
-faster repair speed and healing speed
-old dead hard dash effects
-portals to teleport around
And killers can give survs hindered…?https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6GPEY60SIME3/hlf52mpxgaal-vn.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SZS7P7WOBZNP/hlf53fdw8aaf0up.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GFTU0S3Z81KH/hlf53puwqae4iot.jpeg
(Laughs in Hag).
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089544#Comment_4089544
The only time I’ve ever seen bags that I feel do serve a purpose is when someone is trying to get a killer to chase them instead of someone else. I’ve seen killers leave the tunnel just to smack the butts of someone else bagging and it did save the tunneled survivor. But unfortunately it’s not usually used this way.
Because if I kill the right person, I can kill the teabagger at my leisure. And my rule is - one teabag from any survivor and everyone dies.
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@Valuetown said:
Basically title. On the PTB, NOED was changed to what it really should be: revealed upon the last gen being completed. They "fixed" this "bug" aka enough killers cried so they reverted the feature change. Meanwhile, for half of every match, the audio in the game is bugged and it's as if I stepped into a deafened Hag trap. Great work!
For the majority of the games life, there were spots that survivors could go down and be literally impossible to pick up, but other survivors could heal them.
If you're going to imply favoritism when it comes to bug fixing, you need to think a bit more.
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@JesterVittorio said:
if holding some one on the ground for 4 minutes not doing 1/3 of your role as killer and getting hooks then tea bagging at the exit gates and pallets shouldnt be considered toxic.
One is a playstyle. Sometimes there is no way to realistically win other than slugging.
One is a taunt. It has no benefit. You're just being a jerk.
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But seriously, is this one guy just endlessly making accounts?
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@Blueberry said:
Why are all these spam posts new accounts.
It may be one guy with some bait.
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@cammoking123 said:
Why are people freaking out over the PTB? The point of the PTB is to test thing.
Because this is the live release, and they just decided to break him - at the last second - so now this cannot be changed.
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As far as I remember, she's never actually getting fixed. They don't want people to play her.
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@Zebbao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863100#Comment_3863100
exactly, when i'm in full tryharding mood i win most of the games, now i don't have a precise counter, but i win most of them and they are definitely more than half of the total games. it doesn't seem like such a strange or unrealistic thing lol, i didn't write that i win 99 games out of 100.
More than half of your games isn't 80%.
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@Zebbao said:
dude, i also win 70-80% of the games i play as a killer, but that doesn't mean the game is balanced. read what i wrote about "comp" games and give me a reason.
You…win 80% of your killer games? That would mean you have something like an 85%-90% kill rate.
In other news:
@Zebbao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863068#Comment_3863068
this thing you wrote is one of the things most possibly far from reality. if you don't notice a difference between soloq and swf it means that you are players below average skill. which is honesty as a thing. but it therefore means that you don't have the right to speak because you don't know how the games are balanced between a Top Killer full meta perk vs Swf full meta perk. But I say: there must be a reason if in the "competitive" of this game the teams are nerfed from using 80% of the meta perks, no anti camping, and using specific maps, if the game was balanced? but do you use your brain when you speak or do you just want to defend the side of the game (surv or killer) that you like the most?
I read this twice.
I still have no idea what you're trying to say.
Comp is it's own thing.
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@DancewithmeKate said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863084#Comment_3863084
If you are escaping half of the time, then you are on high mmr as survivor. The last time they shared stats, that was the stat for high mmr survivors. So either you are in 5% of high mmr survivors or you are calculating your escape rate wrong.
No, it's partially a product of me playing solo queue (where I don't escape as much, which probably keeps my MMR lower) and then going back to SWF.
I think I escape…maybe half the time in an SWF? But we are going off the house rules, where 3o is a 'win' for survivors and 2o is a draw. So logically I don't escape as much as we win - if that makes sense.
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@Anti051 said:
Are people "sweating" or do they just know what to do after thousands of hours? Hmmm
Playing sweaty = winning as efficiently as possible, disregarding the fun of the other side entirely. Camping, tunneling, heavy slugging, running stacked perks in an SWF, abusing stuff like the BGP+FB glitch or double lockers to guarantee saves etc.
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@Kn1ghtmare32 said:
I'm a duo or 4 squad survivor player mostly. All I read commonly from this thread is how killers are at huge disadvantage. I firmly believe killers need to play survivor before they start saying changes need to be made constantly. I'm not a pro nor a amateur. I'm a mid player and when I play usually win 1 out of 5 matchs roughly. Don't get why killers want game handed to them? If survivors get debuffed so much they won't play anymore then we left with all killers…I know there "sweaty" survivor teams but those aren't all survivors. Same with killers. My main point is if we push majority of player base to sidelines this game won't last. Need to play both sides of game before suggesting change. If your a killer saying this survivor perk op then try it out b4 coming on here screeching to devs.
I play both sides a fair bit.
Some of it is psychological. Playing killer often feels like you're trying to patch a leaking pipe with bubblegum and packing tape.
That said - how? I escape maybe…40% of the time in solo queue, probably because my MMR is a little inflated from playing in an SWF. In our SWF we escape more than half the time.
Some perks ARE op. CoH dictated the entire meta for a while. DH was omnipresent. MFT was one of the most frustrating perks of all time. Eruption was a nightmare to play against.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863048#Comment_3863048
So, nearly every single killer on these forums who goes through the steps they outlined claims they also "just want chill games".
So there are lots of options:
- don't use the broken combo at all. Keep using what you were using and still kill 60% of survivors. (Play chill to begin with)
- Slot in one of the broken perks and enjoy not tunneling, camping, or slugging for a while. Broken perks by definition are making the game easier, so take easy games. That doesn't mean you should expect to win every game either.
- Slot in every broken thing and still sweat with camping, tunneling, and slugging. Enjoy your easy wins for a while. But at least understand that you lose the right to complain about "hard games" after you've inflated your MMR higher than your skill level. Or when the perk you're relying on gets nerfed.
Most of these rely on people having self awareness, and are only made worse by people who feel entitled to win every single game without exception.
Nah.
I want chill games. By this I mean 'I want to have room to 2 hook everyone and have some epic chases without getting teabagged from the exit gates. Basically - I want to win, but I also want to ensure everyone gets out with a lot of BP and has fun.
I run fairly meta perks unless I'm doing something silly, mostly to give me the ability to bring the hammer down if they want to play sweaty.
@DancewithmeKate said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863060#Comment_3863060
I am playing SWF and Solo-q depends if my friends are online or not. SWF is more fun, that's for sure but there is not big difference between solo and swf too much. Killers are dominating most of games.
Then your MMR is inflated somehow. I'm not an amazing survivor and we get a 2-3o more than half the time.
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@Shroompy said:
I still think making a ranked and unranked queue would some what solve this issue.
More casual players would just stay in quickplay, and before you say anything yes, Im aware that there would be some people who just play casual and still try hard, but this is the case for every single competitive title out there and its not a major issue.
Ranked it self could have a bit longer queue times to make sure everyone is similar in rank. I know this may seem like the game would be made more competitive with this, but if I'm being honest the game has already reached that point. Might as well just give the more competitive players a place to really test their skills.I remember this from Starcraft 2.
People weren't just sweating, they were smurfing like crazy for 'more relaxed games when not pushing ranks'. It was almost impossible to get matched against actual bronze-gold players some nights because new players were quitting after getting smoked by a Masters level player who was also absolute poison in chat because smurf.
It nearly killed the game.
So Blizzard added unranked and ranked modes, so the people wanting more chill games could go to unranked without worrying about losing points.
Guess what happened?
People just deranked the hell out of their unranked side while now being able to keep their rank intact. It was so much worse, as now you also had a split playerbase. Weirdly, the only way to get a chill game was to play Silver or so on ranked. Bronze-Gold on Unranked was wall to wall Diamond+ profiles.
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@TonTon said:
Devs how have you not consider how broken this window is with the mile long loop even Anti window spam nor bloodlust can't activate cause you lose chase.
Like what are you supposed to do if your an m1 killer? This honestly should be removed
You can't. It's one of the safest gens in the entire game. If they run to this room and you aren't about to get a down, you'll have to drop chase, depending what killer you're on.
Hag can trap the area very effectively, Artist and antiloop killers can at least force them away. But if you're on Freddy for instance, good luck.
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@wakesafe said:
This game has little transferable skills to and from other games and even between Killers. The game has also been out for a long time.
It’s more noticeable when you play as Survivor compared to Killer imo. There are 38 Killer powers plus their add ons you need to learn how to play against. That’s just a lot of info plus maps (gens, bones, loops)
Also, 500 hours on Nurse vs 500 on Pig is completely different and the same goes for 500 hours on Survivor. 500 hours on Nurse /= good Survivor player or make you good at 115 Killers.
If they wanted to make the game more accessible they could start with stricter matchmaking so people aren’t fed to wolves, stop making heavily sided maps and stop using perks as bandaids for game design flaws (anti tunnel and slug, Killer slowdown)Eh…I think most M1 killers are analogous. For instance, Trapper, Pig and Myers - while they have different mechanics - are very similar.
Hag, Huntress and especially Nurse are so different that they are their own thing. I know I cannot play Nurse much because I start unlearning how to play everyone else.
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@jjthejetplane3 said:
Honestly what I am seeing and getting most is the last person is slugged just to get the mori… prolonging the game. They will camp that last slugged survivor until the other survivors die on hook. Then will mori the last survivor no matter if the they were right in front of a hook or not.
A bleed out button is definitely needed so survivors can bleed out faster so they may move on to the next game, or base kit unbreakable or both.
The insta mori idea is bad because that negates any soul guard or unbreakable chances. Killers really have no excuse to slug extensively or excessively any longer because of the hook respawn, and being that the only way to wiggle out is if you have teammates block or sabo multiple hooks, or the killer is just "lost"; definitely no excuse for waiting to hook. 99% of the time it is just to get the mori.
As far as the last survivor hiding… they are doing what they are supposed to be doing… surviving. That is on us as killers to hunt them down and kill them. They are waiting for hatch. Even match of 1v1 both going for hatch. RNG works pretty well IMO. Always seems to be luck of the draw unless an offering is placed. Hook the 3rd survivor and hunt the last and close the hatch to start endgame.
The problem is now that the game has been saturated with so much aura reading abilities that its become a crutch and heavily relied upon and most killers now lack the skill of hunting without the aura reading handicap on top of becoming lazy and complacent. Then have the nerve to say "EZ" in post chat when all they have are wall hack perks… get the 4k without any perks, tunneling, and camping… that would be impressive to me as a survivor.
Yeah I know… unpopular opinions… have fun- smh lol
For me, hooks have nothing to do with it.
It's:
- Survivor BM gives me pressure to 4k
- The possibility of two survivors hiding forever.
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One day there will actually be a Freddy rework.
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@buggybug said:
Ill keep it simple, everything before 6.1 patch came.
I think the overall state of the game, from variety to balance has - barring some aberrations like pre-nerf Eruption and MFT - been objectively better for everyone since then.
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@BroRespectTheBoop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861556#Comment_3861556
No it isnt.. you force the survivor to run window short side and its an easy down.
I'll see if I can find you a clip from Otz's stream a bit back where he explained just how nasty it is as an m1.
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@BroRespectTheBoop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861556#Comment_3861556
No it isnt.. you force the survivor to run window short side and its an easy down.
Dude. Even comp level players regard cow tree as a hell of a loop. If you're an M1, you've got a decent vault, a very tight angle and a great pallet.
What?
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@fixblitzskin said:
as we approach the end of December the finale square of the roadmap will be added. January 14th is probably the PTB date similar to how it was last year. I hope to see skull merchant on the rework tab. Myers on Killer update . Deathslinger to be in tweaks. Perks like ultimate weapon and cruel limits to be on their too.
- Skull Merchant and Freddy reworks early next year as promised, not pushed back indefinitely again.
- Rewards for good sportsmanship/upvotes.
- Executioner and Slinger addon pass.
- Legion buffed up a bit.
- Keys and maps reworked.
- Self unhooks/suiciding removed.
- GoJ reworked.
- Badham reworked.
- Swamp reworked.
- Basekit unbreakable if only 1 survivor is left up.
- Afk crows accrue quicker and aren't lost until you are hooked. Repeatedly picking up items and other methods of avoiding crows fixed.
- Bloodweb speed increased.
@hxp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862006#Comment_3862006
if you have difficulties to 4k with any killer in this game, you have a skill issue. Even against an SWF it's no issue at all! This game needs massive balancing. and I forgot some things:
- rework tiles (less filler pallets and more useful chase spots)
- rework maps overall (for example: undo the changes to the haddonfield map)
Hahaha no. Good SWFs roll killers all day every day. Hell I think our win rate is around 60% and we aren't that good.
Go watch some high level survivor players, like Hens and Ayrun.
@hxp said:
we need a lot of survivor buffs. game is killer sided af!
- no aura reading perks for killers (make hiding fun again)
- gens back to 80 secs
- show gens to survivors and hide gens to killers at all time
- no mory for the last surv
- add unbreakable to surv base kit
and maybe introduce a balancing similar to 2vs8 mode (speedup gen progression speed if survs are losing or someone killed itself on hook).
Is this a Poe?
- Hiding is the worst thing in this game.
- Hah.
- Hahahahaha.
This is a Poe….right?
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@Akeeno said:
id say 115 movement speed
basekit tin oil can
faster reeling speed
houndmaster is similar to slinger and she got a giga buff, would be nice for slinger aswell.
Yeah. Honestly, just make him 115.
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Okay what the hell did I just see?
Also - the major issue is that crows is really, really weak.
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@buggybug said:
Not anymore once they decide to spilt it into two variants and blocked off library third floor. As as re veteran its a real insult to me and tbh I wouldn't even blame capcom to take away their license and remove the map.
Alot of the hate imo is people who havent even played a re game in their life. I did well as both survivor and killer on og rpd. Heck unlike trashwich killer sided school, rpd og was fine on both sides imo. Now its more killer sided like 90,% of maps become.
Dude, everything you post is so negative.
I'm a RE2 afficionado and RPD pre split was just as bad for survivors. Just a horrible, miserable map all round.
Also - RPD is pretty balanced. One wing favors killer slightly one favors survivors. Small, but strong loops and a lot of very safe gens.
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@Ivantxugp_ said:
Can I please stop being ######### paired with ppl +120 ping???????? Literally if this company doesn't wanna spend more money on servers or fixing the myriad of bugs on the game, at least WARN ME BEFORE STARTING THE MATCH that the killer has high ping so I can see myself out of that lobby.
What purpose does it serve for you to tell me the killer's ping ingame WHEN I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
I'm so tired of being hit by invisble huntress hatches, nurses blinks that never connect, dropping palletes and being hit for no reason and all that bullcrap. Really, make high ping people play by themselves and leave the rest the ######### alone.
It sucks but this is one of those issues without a good solution.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862084#Comment_3862084
Me too.
As killer, I hunt down the last survivor(s), but have never had two hide well enough to stay fully hidden for more than a few minutes. Sometimes as a stealth killer in hopeless 2v1 situations (e.g. 3 gens or more left), I'll see one doing a gen, chase them off, then go stealthily look on the other gens for their teammate for a few minutes. And if they're not doing any gens after a few minutes, and the one teammate keeps trying, I do some hide-and-seek for the one not contributing...
As survivor, if the situation looks hopeless, I'll sometimes try to open chests for a medkit if I'm injured. If I can't get some kind of heal, I'll go on gens. And if I do get a heal, I'll also go on gens. If a slug for 4k happens, I'll slowly try to go for the save, careful to avoid the killer who's likely camping the slug.
None of those ever came close to an hour :/
I've had a few. One against a full hider squad that had stealth perks, on Mother's Dwelling I think.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861080#Comment_3861080
Survivors quitting has always been a thing but it's only getting worse as times go by. Killers have power creep while survivors are continuously nerfed. Maps reduced to be auto wins for killer. I could go on but I think I made the point.
Dude.
You just compared killers playing cheesy to…you know what, you do you I guess. But keep in mind that cyberbullying has an actual bodycount. I don't think a killer playing cheesy does.
Also, nope. Survivors quitting losing games has always been a thing. So yes, maybe killers winning more has increased that. Vicariously. But that's not a killer problem.
Look. I could list all the killer nerfs since 6.1.0. I could talk about how GoJ still has a possible actual infinite. I could ask how long it took to nerf DH, MFT, double locker saves and BGP/Flashbang exploits. I could point out what happened to Freddy, Skull Merchant and Chucky. I could go on and on about how the game cannot be balanced around solo queue and how SWF is fine and how easy it is to find one. I could ask why slugging people for 4 minutes is this much of a problem when multiple survivors hiding for 40 is completely fine.
Hell, I could try and explain again how a 60% kill rate doesn't translate to a 60% win rate.
But I don't think you are open to facts of any sort if they contradict your mindset.
So I'll just say again.
Cyberbullying.
Really?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861625#Comment_3861625
Yet sometimes hiding does get us that door or hatch. So where's that leave us?
An essential component in a vicious cycle.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861588#Comment_3861588
yeah for sure I hate it too, I always make sure to call out my random teammates when they teabag in exit gates (unless I personally saw the killer do something super BM beforehand). it's almost always a survivor who did nothing all game, too, so it's really easy to call them out on it. hate survivors that do that. i personally only ever stay in gate when the killer's nearby if i think it'll give my teammates time to reset
i was just preemptively trying to head off the comparison between bleedout slugging and teabagging at an exit because although they're both BM and rude they're very different as far as core mechanics go
My response to this…vanished for some reason, but short version:
- Survivor BM contributes to killers having pressure to 4k.
- Some of this comes from the developers' attitude towards toxicity, with Mandy going on record in the past as saying that anything short of slurs is completely fine and another developer post I cannot locate talking about how (after an animation rework AFAIR) they wanted teabagging to remain as satisfying for survivors.
- BM slugging is more analogous to BM hiding. It's rare, there are outlier cases who do it all the time and it should probably be fixed, but that's a complicated proposition.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861588#Comment_3861588
Because there's arses on the survivor side too.
We recommend learning to use snug, he heavily punishes those types of survivors.
It would be awesome to have a doggo on my Hag but I don't think it's in the cards.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861525#Comment_3861525
the whole reason why people were running tinkerer was hex:ruin. the nerf just killed a non-gen defence perk.
Tink was a gen defense tool though. The notification and undetectable was incredible on a lot of killers.
It synergized well with Ruin because you'd push them off the gen, Ruin would do its thing, then Tink would pop again - rinse and repeat.
That said, I mostly ran PR back then due to how often Ruin would get cleansed stupidly early, Undying or no Undying.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
My best memories from when I first played Dbd are centered around how the game initially made me feel. When I first started playing I remembered feeling like I was actually in a scary movie. I loved how the different combinations of Killers, Survivors, skins, and stages made each trial feel like its own unique story.
Here on the cusp of 2025, not only do I still feel the same way but the feeling has actually become much stronger.
I think that's what I've lost in a way. Now all I see are ones and zeroes essentially - many thousands of hours in and I know the game pretty well. There are no more surprises. Oh, I can always improve and get better at looping/counter-looping, aiming etc. but that's all muscle memory stuff. I can tell when someone is better than me or when they're easy to loop/catch. I can generally guess after the first 5 minutes of a match what the outcome is likely to be.
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@Speckled_unicorn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861214#Comment_3861214
There was one time I literally took a whole ass shower (like, 20 minutes long), came back out and still sat in queue for 15 more minutes.
I would sometimes be able to watch most of an episode of King of the Hill or Futurama while I waited for my survivor queue to pop.
Unfortunately this is where deranking came in - you could either wait forever at Iri ranks or you'd derank down to Gold or something where queues were much faster.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I very much miss the vibe of the dark maps too, I think they ruined a lot of the horror aesthetic by making maps daytime. My fondest memories are on old Coldwind, where I was absolutely terrified of killers and would run OG Spine Chill so I knew when the killer was looking my way and I could pre-hide from them lmao.
No0b3 and Monto were my favs and I even watched TrU3 back then, I was amazed how players like No0b3 were so confident around killers and all I wanted to do was to learn to 360 killers.
I miss the aesthetic of old Coldwind in particular, the golden night skies had such a vibe and I feel they completely destroyed that with the new maps which I no longer like at all.
I miss old DBD, I think they improved a lot (obviously) and it is far more polished and refined… but old DBD had way more character
I loved the vibe but the dark maps…the problem was how much the incentivized hiding forever. Holy crap were Claudettes a pain on the old Game, for instance. Unless you used another program to pump up the brightness to absurd (and ugly) levels, they could be legitimately invisible.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
What I want to say is that everything BHVR does results in BP and I feel like the community always wants more regardless of how much they offer.
BHVR always gives BP when the game is broken, in mystery boxes, in redeemable codes, when you watch a live stream, in events that happen or when it simply wants to.
I understand that from the perspective of a new player this is very good since DBD's Grind is very extensive but it is not as bad as it used to be but I also understand that from a veteran player's perspective, he really has nothing to gain.
For veteran players who had already achieved several things before the grind change, BP became a little useless because the change not only benefited everyone in general, which is really a good thing, but it made life a lot easier for those who had already provided everything the game had to offer at the time.
I feel like BHVR could offer other cooler rewards but why do that when they know the community always wants BP...
What else could we earn currency wise?
And BP - I play almost the entire roster of killers and a fair bit of survivor, so it hardly goes to waste.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861557#Comment_3861557
I mean, there are several reasons for this shift, sure. But almost every single one of them is in patch 6.1.
Ruin nerf, tinkerer nerf, and BBQ BP changes all contributed to killers not applying as much map pressure.
Pain res and pop were also hard meta before the patch and those were both adjusted in that patch as well.
And, like you said, Eruption and overcharge were buffed. Eruption actually got triple buffed in short succession: increased chunk regression on down and increased incapacitation in 6.1, and then shortly later was buffed again to apply incapacitation before the regression, which really kicked off the gen kick meta.
But, with the exception of the third Eruption buff, all of that, and the focus change to generators over chases, is entirely due to the 6.1 patch.
Ruin and Tink were QQ'd about ENDLESSLY on the forums. So sure, but this is sort of a hell of survivors' own making.
PR was still a monster of a perk. Pop, if I remember was really crap then it was buffed, then nerfed again.
Eruption was the problem.
OC wasn't even slightly OP and was thus a dumb nerf as it's now mostly worse than an empty slot.
COB was another dumb nerf but it's merely crap now.
Keep in mind that a lot of killers didn't use Ruin before the patch (I never did, it was too volatile) and instead ran PR+DMS. Post patch, I saw some kickers but still a lot of PR. I don't think it changed all that much, outside of Eruption being a horrible perk to go up against. Kicky meta also grew heavily out of NTH and the later PR nerfs, alongside Pop being good again.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861539#Comment_3861539
And deciding to slug for a 4k because of hatch is an ego problem.
The same could be said about teabagging by exits but that can be ended in a max of 5.4 seconds with 2 basic attacks so there's less of an urgent need to address it.
Yeah, but sometimes I'm just not in the right headspace to eat 1000 teabags and 'hey have a free hit…NOT' jukes to BM.
Why can't survivors just leave?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
IMO the biggest failure of the 6.1.0 "meta shakeup" patch went beyond just the perks. This community tends to refer to "meta" as just the perks, items, and add-ons, which is fair enough. I think the patch had some good things (DH for distance removed, DS disabled in end game, "follow the notification" of tinkerer gone, as some examples).
The 6.1.0 patch still has perk, item, and add-on issues, but the real failure imo was changing the way the game was played by the entire community.
Killers largely stopped playing PVP and focused on generators. Gen kick meta for 8 months and 3 gen meta for a full year broke how people think and interact with the game entirely, even long after they were fixed. Before 6.1, the match focused on map pressure and chases. Survivors needed to (and had the time to) break all 5 totems on the map to "counter" noed.
But that changed to territory control over generators entirely due to the 6.1.0 patch. Killers would drop chase to go make sure every gen had Eruption applied to it. Survivors learned that the only way to break these new strategies was to finish gens before the killer could lock down 3 together at the start.
And this mentality over territory still persists today, even after numerous changes to maps, pallets, tile strength, nearly every survivor perk that has more than one post about it getting nerfed... The only thing some people still focus on is "just give back hostage level regression again". I've argued with people in the past week that somehow regression nerfs from 6-12 months ago are the "reason they're just slugging everyone now".
And why not? Binding every key to "damage generator" and slamming your face on the keyboard is actually easier than chasing a player opponent.
I think the 6.1.0 patch broke player mentality in an irreversible way. The players who want to play "gen kick simulator" want it back and don't actually want a PVP game (or, at least not a PVP game where the opponent has any autonomy over the outcome).
That, imo, is the true "meta failure" of 6.1.0.
Yes and no. A big part involved a shift from Ruin to other perks.
Kick meta revolved around Eruption. CoB and Overcharge were purely along for the ride.
I saw a lot of PR back then too.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
I'd like to present my (crude) drawing of Rancid Abbatoir RNG that a twitch streamer got a few days ago. 8 pallets, 1 breakable wall, 9 windows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WFY0DCDU2DUI/rancid.png
Obstacles unrelated to loops were removed, and what you see here is every (yes, every) resource on the map. I even looked at spots where pallets could spawn to see if any had been dropped but broken, and this is all the map spawned. 4 terrible "jungle gym"s (3 of the somewhat stronger variety, and 1 of the laughably weak variety) and 2 filler pallets. What a laughably weak map.
With better RNG there could have been better jungle gyms here, but this is still pathetic. Genuinely, what resources do survivors have to work with here? Keep in mind that there are no Z wall spawns on rancid or edge map pallets like there were in 2v8. Once the laughable supply of pallets are gone, only shack window, harvester, meat tree, and the 4 L walls can realistically be played. Nothing here is chainable, in fact there are barely any resources for miles. I loaded this map several times against bots in customs to reference while making this image, and although I usually got at least one standard tile instead of these awful gyms, there were always nearly as many deadzones in my variations.
Do you think this map is too lacking in resources? If no, why not, and if so, what do you think should be done to fix it?
Twitch VOD for reference: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2332513216?t=1h14m47s
Not really. Cow tree is still one of the strongest loops in the entire game and some of those windows are vicious.
That said - yes. Coldwind runs the gamut. Rancid is a bit killer sided. Cowshed is a bit survivor sided. It evens out.
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@JPLongstreet said:
My first match ever with my beloved Piggly Wiggly was on old old Haddonfield. Barely knew what I was doing, repeatedly got spun, and ended up with maybe two hooks. They took my gens, they took my totems, they took my wallet and my left shoe! I still very clearly remember them all up on one of the overhangs crouched and slowly bobbing their heads.
I've never been a particularly good killer, but I know I've come a long way since those days.
I think I started with Wraith, then promptly resolved to never do that again. Huntress was a lot of fun but I was bad. I think I bought Hag for Ruin and Devour - and holy crap I loved her. I'm more of a macro/tactical player and I think I mained her on and off for the entire time I played DbD.
Only killer that I enjoyed more was Skull Merchant and we all know how that ended.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861370#Comment_3861370
And what happens when its a game you've invested thousands of hours into before the content was added? Thats my point.
Its not about putting certain phobias on a pedestal, its about preventing them from even becoming relevant. When introducing them into a game, you have to decide whether their inclusion is worth the potential exclusion of the userbase it can affect, especially when its something not crucial to the game. Spider fans being slightly disappointed is not worth as much as players no longer being able to play the game, and that applies to a lot more than just phobias.
Game is a live service. You knew that going in and now have a choice to make, much as when a game patch puts your PC under spec.
You are absolutely putting certain phobias on a pedestal. What do I mean?
Replace 'spider fans' with, let's say, FNAF fans and apply the same logic - which is why demanding that certain content be censored or never added if it triggers your specific phobia is selfish at best and absolute poison to any sort of media at worst. Because by your logic, Houndmaster should never have been added (dog phobia - incredibly common). Or Dracula (dog phobia, bat phobia, blood phobia - all extremely common).
Did that prevent people with a phobia of dogs from playing the game?
Again, you're going down the 'trigger warnings are pointless, we need to censor or exclude any triggering content' road and either you don't realize it, or you do - and are pretending you don't. Because that's the absolutely only place your train of thought leads.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861348#Comment_3861348
I already addressed the point about people using a setting for an advantage. There is such a thing as addressing accessibility issues without giving inherent benefits, like the current colorblindness and FoV settings (which many claimed were going to give unfair advantages before they were introduced.)
You're also trying to stretch my argument to avoid all phobias ever, when you know thats not what I'm arguing. I listed clown because I was using him as part of the example, as my point was concerning two killers who are already in the game, thus meaning they would need extra work to allow accessibility options. I could have included the Dredge as well, but thats more in terms of physical accessibility.
When did I say anything about more or less impactful? I said that they can elicit different responses. You're also really forcing the acrophobia argument as a bit of a strawman.
And no, your "warnings" are pointless when people are unable to prevent matches vs content added into the game. You can't filter out the game to never see a killer, as this is a live service game that changes over time (including by adding content like the ones in question.) Many people straight up DC from these matches if its a killer that they are unable to go against, especially since they won't know until its too late to dodge.
For the last time, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
You can choose not to play a game that triggers a specific phobia of yours. That's my meaning.
I'm not stretching your argument or strawmanning…huh? I'm using acrophobia as it's common and often severe. I'm also pointing out that, as much as you try to hedge - you're putting certain phobias on a pedestal. You're also creeping right back into 'trigger warnings aren't enough, we need to actively censor/not release media that triggers anyone' territory.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861306#Comment_3861306
Do you not understand the difference between designing things in mindful ways and people being unreasonable? Plague's emetophobia issues could be resolved in very simple options like disabling puking noises and/or making the puke more transparent
Your slippery slope story has nothing to do with that. The Colorblindness options in this game aren't even good "enough" for many colorblind people, but making them better would compromise other aspects of the game so… they stopped there.
The point of avoiding phobias is that they have not yet been introduced. Since the clown has already been introduced and he can't be changed to something that is not a clown, they now would have to find compromises to minimize the impact he would have on coulrophobics (similar to the Plague situation I mentioned.) If he was just not designed as a clown, they would have avoided having to go back and redesign things if trying to accommodate.
Lastly different phobias work differently, and elicit different responses. Its not always about just the fear aspect. Emetophobia is a prime example because it often directly causes nausea and even vomiting themselves. Which could have been avoided if they designed the killer in a way that is mindful of it, vs having to later play catchup on finding ways to hide or minimize it.
That wouldn't be enough and you know it. And yes, I'm saying that you're being unreasonable, bordering on minimizing the phobias of others.
Now, an option to maybe change something is an idea, maybe a toggle to chance blood color for instance or disable the puking sound. The problem is that has to be done incredibly carefully to avoid having the 'right' setting for competitive players, ala SC2.
I'm not going to debate the ins and outs of emetophobia to avoid sidetracking the discussion, aside from pointing out that nausea is a common fear response anyway. You listed Clown too.
Explain to me how coulrophobia is less impactful than, say, a fear of heights. Should BHVR start designing maps without verticality? Or hemophobia - should we be removing blood splatter on future killers?
Also - name me a licensed killer property that would not trigger phobias of any sort and let's go from there. Just one good example.
(Yes, it's a rhetorical question. Because I'm pretty sure that someone with severe phobias of any sort is going to regard their phobia as crucial).
Or - better yet - we calm down, include the necessary warnings and let adults curate their own gaming experiences from there. Otherwise things get very silly very fast.
EDIT: masklophobia! Extremely common, often pretty damn severe. Should BHVR skip the FNAF chapter next year?
Keep us posted as to which phobias are okay to trigger and which aren't.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861087#Comment_3861087
I mean, they're not wrong. Plague, Clown, and Doctor still have accessibility issues (as do some others to a lesser degree,) we don't need to add another common one. The Entity is already spider-like enough.
There was this game, Boyfriend Dungeon I think. Made by an incredibly progressive group, all that stuff. Problem was that part of the story involved a stalker.
The developers were called out endlessly for not providing a detailed enough trigger warning, likely not wanting to completely give the plot away. But they updated it to be detailed.
This…wasn't enough. People declared that even including a stalking subplot in a game was a consent violation and demanded that it be completely removed. Lots of people. And that any content that could trigger anyone for any reason has no place in fiction.
Others quite rightly pointed out that everyone has their phobias and triggers and expecting that none of these to be poked at ever isn't just unrealistic, it's stifling. There are numerous articles and videos about this - including a solid one by YouTuber Sarah Z.
My point is that expecting to have no phobias triggered - in a horror game no less - is a bit silly. I mean, Cynophobia and Hemophobia are two phobias at least as common as a fear of spiders. So…should Houndmaster be removed? And no games can have blood effects now?
No.
Warn people. If it's realistic, allow them options. But to frame triggering phobias as an accessibility issue is absurd, as basically…all video games are thus ableist.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859129#Comment_3859129
Source? My own experience. I played back then. I remember what it was like. How can you draw conclusions from Youtube videos? First of all, you have no idea what time of day they were playing. Survivors queues have always been shorter during off-peak times. Second, there is self-selection with Youtube video uploads. Nobody is going to upload videos where they are spending 15-20 minutes waiting in a survivor queue. So there's a good reason why you only see short wait times when watching Youtube clips.
What do you mean 'source?'.
Do a quick forum search. People would complain about survivor queue times constantly.
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@Jock21 said:
Is fine and def not top 5. If anything she's still too buggy rn. Survivors can still easily dodge the dog from a distance and loop her around dropped safe pallets. Yeah she can guarantee hits on animations but so can Huntress/Pyramid Head/Xeno/Dracula/etc so I really don't see what the big fuss was about it, just like these other killers you can still play around that. Her map traversal ability can also be pretty awkward to use cause the dog's path can take weird turns and you must follow it exactly or you lose your speed boost. Definitely not as smooth to use as something like Blight's/Billy's/Dracula's traversal abilities or even teleports abilities like Unknown's or Dredge's (in maps full of lockers).
So all in all I'll give her low A tier at best and even that might be too generous considering all her numerous still present bugs. Any nerfs to her and she'd easily drop back to low tier considering her bugged state, which can be brutal at times even in her current state.
I've yet to even see a HM. I've seen more Twins and Hags this event.
That said - I've been playing her a bit here and there and she's probably 'A' tier, with a fairly high skill floor and a lot of very janky AI and bugs.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861259#Comment_3861259
I think it looks cool. I miss the hat he sometimes has in the comics, though:
Yeah, I think that's the Grant/Breyfogle design. Very cool.