Equinox_One
Equinox_One
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@wakesafe said:
That is the power role bleeding you out to try and win harder when the 3K is a win. The Killer (as the power role) is refusing to hook and is attempting to bypass the hatch mechanic. The Survivor is not to blame. This is like blaming the Killer when Survivors 2v1 stealth a lost game.
Also, if every 3K resulted in a 4K kill rates would go up and Killers would likely receive nerfs.
Who says 3K is a win?
The survivor sitting on hatch teabagging and waiting to leave in front of me?
Nah.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
yeah Idk about all of that. I can understand being annoyed when both survivors are hiding in lockers when it’s a 1v2. At that point do your thing. But if it’s a normal game and it’s a 1v2 I’m not gonna blame survivors for “conceding” because the killer wants to avoid the hatch. Thats on the killer. They are the ones wasting time there.
My solution to “slug for the 4k” is just that when it’s a 1v2, the next survivor that gets downed gets moried automatically. No option. The killer gets their win and doesn’t get punished. More more bleedouts in that situation. And it helps end the match faster. Faster bleedout system would be the solution to when killers are 4 man slugging.So what should the killer do?
Just…give the hatch?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855866#Comment_3855866
Plague is considered balanced I think, she shouldn’t be as fast as she is given her power and the add-on that reveals auras every time a survivor coughs is really strong but beyond that I haven’t seen many people complain about her. Cenobyte has been nerfed within the last 2 years so I think he’s fine as well. And both killers are pretty rare to face with low pick rates. Chucky was more common, popular, and created lose-lose scenarios that neither Plague nor Cenobyte create.
Chucky is way lower tier than Plague and the only reason people don't endlessly kvetch about them is because of how rare they are.
The issue isn't the nerf.
The issue is that it was done with zero testing allowed and the devs just basically giving players the middle finger, saying 'oh yeah we didn't bother putting it on the PTB and we aren't open to feedback on this topic. Now buy cosmetics for another killer'.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858170#Comment_3858170
It's pretty much the exact same thing. The only reason why it's only for four minutes is because BHVR put a hard cap on the time before someone bleeds out. If it were an hour to bleed out the same Killers who now slug for the 4K would telling Survivors to go watch a TV or grab a sandwich.
The bottom line is you're wasting another player's time instead of progressing the game as intended; any Killer who slugs the second last survivor for the 4K is not behaving any better than the Survivors who hide out and wait for Hatch.
Except that one is proportionally way worse than the other…
@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855496#Comment_3855496
I have noticed that survivors are adapting and we won't go down easy. It used to be survivors giving up, DCing, but we are getting smarter.
We shouldn't have to carry perks to counter something that only gives us a one shot at getting up and most sluggers wait for it. Slugging has become an every game occurrence and I blame content creators for it. It wasn't this bad until they got rid of Prime Gaming and started making their players watch Twitch videos. Sad part is by the time they do something about it a lot of players will be lost.
There is nothing wrong with slugging. It's an essential part of the game. I'd love to be able to just send survivors to the hook/cage but it's not going to happen.
The problem is BM slugging and bleedouts, which are very rare and also on BHVR's radar to fix. The problem is that attempts at fixing this before wound up breaking the game at higher levels of play, where slugging is an absolutely crucial part of the game.
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858414#Comment_3858414
So what you're saying is that I should pursue my goal in any setting regardless of what the people I'm sharing it with think?
Please don't respond by saying 'it's the killer's goal'. I'm interested in the answer to that exact question. If I have a goal, should I pursue it regardless of what other people feel or think about my approach to achieving my goal?
Stop, you're getting straw all over the place.
Slugging is fine. Bleeding everyone out to BM is not. Slugging for the 4k isn't nice, but it could be ended by the last survivor just giving up and not wasting everyone's time.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858161#Comment_3858161
Waiting in the exit gates is only bm if all survivors are in that gate and don't come to poke you when you get there or give you items.
If one survivor isn't out yet, most survivors will also wait to go for the save, or even try to take up the killer's time by making the killer force them out so the last survivor has some extra moments to get the other gate open. And in solo queue, they really can't always know if the other survivors are at the other gate. If they wait there, don't teabag, and not all survivors are at that gate, they're likely still trying to help their teammate... or say hi :)
Killers bm all the time though. It's hard to get a game where the killer doesn't either tunnel, proxy camp, or slug for 4k. Personally, as killer, I only bm bully squads…
Yes. Every game you will see survivors waiting in the gates needlessly. Go note it yourself.
Also - uh, that's not BMing as killer. Tunneling is cheesy but also just kind of the meta. It's also a term used way too much (you not being careful and running into me is not me tunneling and no, I'm not just going to ignore you). Proxy camping is a nothing term. Slugging for 4k is about as common as last two survivors hiding for hatch, only the former wastes 4 minutes tops and hiding can waste 20+.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Dont know. Game has turned into "hope the killer is stupid" in order for a game to actually last any duration and any POSSIBILITY of an escape.
Just the reality of things now. And all these silly killer updates that are completely unnecssary have just been reinforcing this idea.
We cant even get a solution to tunneling but we have to take a hook state and get exposed for it. Tunneling should flat out not be a thing in this game. Not put a perk into the game, that you cant have any coordination or use in SoloQ for.Tunneling has never been less powerful than it is today. Baseline BT, for instance.
Yes tunneling sucks. Yes, tunneling is also pretty much the only way for killer to win against a good team. You cannot balance this game around solo queue because SWF exists.
Solo queue is always going to be terrible.
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Game goes however it wants sadly. Sometimes youl be on survivor and first thing 2 people start throwing the match just standing there getting downed. So then you expect the killer might give you a break because you were still trying to play etc. Nope. You cant expect the killer to care as you dont know what theyve been through nor how they like to play. Likely the first "break" theyve gotten in a while too so they just mow everyone down. And likewise on killer you play "honorably" and "by the survivor rule book" and you expect they will respect you. Nope. T bags, bragging and laughing and clicking all the way, you cant expect survivors to care either as you dont know what kind of killers theyve been up against before you or how they like to play. So either way the best thing you can do is hope they care and have some honor, but if they don't, immediately stop caring about them as well. Like the bming ace, easy enough to just ignore them like they are invisible while the others go down quicker because he wont take hooks for them. Once hes alone and the hatch is closed, and you see him before he gets to a gate. Hes dead no matter what. If he gets out oh well, let him sit there at the gate while you take a quick break in the middle of the map lol
That situation stinks as a killer because either game takes forever or you just finish it ASAP and feel bad. Ditto hook suicides.
@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858304#Comment_3858304
It gets worse the higher MMR you go. I find the more serious, or even skilled the players, the saltier and sorer winners they are. It's so telling that often, the best player in the match will be the one bringing a map offering and be the most rude in chat.
The overwhelming majority are just quiet or simply say gg, but I notice this shift very clearly when my MMR bounces between average lobbies and high mmr lobbies.
It also varies from place to place. Asian players seem to be pretty mannered. Anyone with Cyrillic letters in their name, especially a whole team…I just dodge now. Too many all out griefer squads. BR players are notorious in most games for similar reasons - it's a cultural thing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858181#Comment_3858181
People disliked her in the PTB. She was not what a lot of people thought they were going to get.
She was weak, except for when you held onto gens. She was not a typical-looking Killer with her bedazzled and glittery mask.
You cannot seriously be blaming people for hating Chess Merchant, which, let's be real, is all people really played while it was available.
Sure.
Thing is - that was reworked. And the reworked version while it might have been a little too strong was totally fine to play against, especially after the anti 3gen mechanics were added in.
So…it's okay to gut a killer because people have a grudge based on an incarnation of the killer that no longer exists?
Again - vindictive.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858191#Comment_3858191
Do they have some basis for their actions or not?
Is there some sort of design issue that's being exploited? Or is this just a normal Trapper
Exploited…how exactly?
We talking 'exploiting' Trapper by hooking in basement and locking the area down?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858154#Comment_3858154
It depends. Is it, at least, somewhat grounded in reality? Do they have some basis for their actions in your hypothetical?
Also, yes, and it was okay for the first 10 Killers. Now it's a little repetitive.
You genuinely think gutting a killer and leaving them in a deliberately non-viable state expressly to stop people playing that killer as some sort of community scapegoat is appropriate, especially when you've sold cosmetics for that killer - rather than simply tweaking that killer…?
I'm hopeful that you didn't put that right because that's genuinely vindictive.
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858112#Comment_3858112
SM got nerfed because she was complex, which lead to her having the highest kill rate in the game. Survivors are too lazy to think, so killers that have unintuitive powers which require you to do something besides doing gens end up having high kill rates. Just look at the top killers according to stats, it's generally SM, Sadako, Freddy, Pig, and Pinhead. None of those killers, besides Pinhead, can be considered above average. However, they are still getting reworked and nerfed in basically every patch.
This is terrible, since it limits BHVR in how complex they can make a killer as they always have to account for the brainless survivor player base.
No, SM had some aspects to her kit that were a bit much.
Thing is, simply removing the dormant drone state (this was the problem imho as it could be incredibly hard to spot them mid chase and always gave one scan) would have sufficed.
But it wasn't about balance.
It was about placating community QQ by basically deleting a character indefinitely.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858144#Comment_3858144
Yep!
Knock Out and Boil Over, I would say. Miserable, both of them.
BO is only really a problem when combined with other perks on specific maps. There are (I think) two remaining spots where you can make yourself completely unhookable.
Knock Out is a horrible perk in solo queue. But I fortunately almost never see it.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858150#Comment_3858150
One was back in 2017 not sure on the other one. If people don't get banned then I guess it's fair game, they clearly still do it regardless of it being reportable. But I will say based on the only clarification we have on the matter (being from a dev member) then it's a risk... All it takes is 1 ban and if someone does that get that 1 ban then it's on them.
Sorry my bad not 2017...2020.
Yeah that's the one I'm thinking of then. Different era of the game, tricks for avoiding crows weren't as widely known.
This was also the era of 'survivors placing themselves on inaccessible terrain to take the game hostage is against the rules but we're not banning anyone for it' Mandy posting if I recall. But that's neither here nor there.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858141#Comment_3858141
Survivors are far more likely to BM than Killers
Not really from my experience. I play as I normally would and I rarely come across toxic players on either side. A majority of my Steam comments have been +reps, with a variety of compliments from me playing Survivor/Killer.
(Also I know there are gaps in time between the comments, I tend to take breaks from playing DBD since I do play other games. Also I dont delete -rep comments unless they contain racism or homophobia, Ive only had to delete 1 comment ever for such, and that's over the span of multiple years of playing on PC.)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2G8JX578D5H1/screenshot-from-2024-12-17-16-56-35.png
Particularly teabagging at the gate
Even still, I rarely see that. I see people do ye ole "watch me leave" but I dont see tbagging that much, and even if I do see tbagging, it's often done to try and get aggro away from teammates or players who want to be chased to improve at the game.
Often I find people discount a player's actions as toxic without denoting the intentions behind it.
Teabagging or just waiting in the exit gates is pretty universal BM. You're going out of your way to waste the killer's time in order to rub a victory in and gloat.
Again, go ahead and document it for yourself.
Take BMing killers (hitting on hook, bleeding out etc.), multiply that number by 4.
Compare this number to how many times survivors sit in the exit gates.
I'd say at least 3/4 my losses has at least 1 survivor doing that.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858112#Comment_3858112
The hypothetical is ridiculous because it hasn't ever happened before. There is no basis for a mass case of a "meme" getting out of hand and causing a Killer to be gutted.
Also, as for your CC comment, maybe Hens or Ayrun could influence a sizable portion of the NA and Europe playerbase, MAYBE. Asian players play an entirely different game and I know DBD has a huge Spanish-speaking community as well. At MOST, Hens and Ayrun could maybe convince 20% of that playerbase to do something. How in the hell could they make all Survivor players throw for a "meme"
I hate to break it to you, but Artist is already disliked and has been since she released. She's another, "Place power at loop, Survivor must leave loop or die" Killer. The reason the hatred isn't as strong is two-fold. For one, she wasn't used to hold people hostage. For two, even if she plays in that "boring" way of placing a Bird at a loop immediately, the Survivor DOES still get to interact with the Killer. When SM was used in her "boring" way, there wasn't any interaction, there was tedium.
I'm using 'meme' in the original way, not the colloquial one. A self propagating phenomenon within culture. It's why crouching repeatedly is a fairly universal way of being BM. It's a meme. Not in the 'picture plus text' internet way.
Again, no hypothetical is perfect. So fine, since you're just going to keep attacking the hypothetical rather than entertaining the question, let's rephrase. People decide to start mass suiciding against x killer. BHVR nukes the killer to a deliberately non-viable state where the killer is left to languish indefinitely.
Is this an appropriate action to take, and if so - why?
The 'use power leave loop' is maybe half the killer roster but that's also besides the point.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858132#Comment_3858132
It's been confirmed various times, I only have a couple of them saved but there are others that might have other screenshots. I haven't seen anything to say it's not reportable. If it's not enforced then I guess it's fair game lol. Personally, my way works for me... Slug, if can't find 4th then I keep 3rd alive as long as possible and play the long game. 3rd can quit and take the DC penalty, they can afk and let me carry them around the map until server ends or they can risk helping me to rat out the 4th (which is difficult to prove especially if I dont give the hatch as reward for helping). In the same respect I have played with the same survivor multiple times, each time they have helped me to wrap up the match...they even said they knew it was me because of my playstyle and killer so knew what was coming lol and they haven't been banned yet because I still see them from time to time. Point is doesn't mean it's not reportable just because people can get away with it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UNDBFVGH9COT/cf218859-6bbc-4cca-9bab-2d0eb9d22e57.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DMQ7AMPGEO43/image-2024-08-14-213152145.png
When are those from? I'm not even sure if Peanits understands the problem (abusing certain mechanics to avoid crows).
My point is that clearly nobody is getting banned for this.
I'm saying that I reported this specific group twice and they clearly do this a lot without ever being banned for it.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858127#Comment_3858127
"Yep thats me, you're probably wondering how i got here"…
Actually, this was a Knock Out Doc, slugging from the start.
The other Mikaela I have a strong suspicion was downed inside the tower, but she didn't DC as soon as she got downed. The Dwight I have no idea where he was.
And speaking of perks that should have been reworked forever ago…
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@sinkra said:
A balanced game, not ez mode for killer.
DbD is more balanced now than it ever has been, with a few outliers like Nurse and Blight excepted.
The problem is that the game isn't and cannot be balanced around solo queue, because otherwise SWFs become unbeatable.
@Iron_Cutlass said:
Some people get upset just for the sake of getting upset. This isnt something exclusive to Survivors, Ive seen Killers get upset over the smallest of things just as much as Survivors do it.
I'll disagree with this completely.
Even accounting for there being 4x as many, survivors are far more likely to be BM than killers.
Want to see what I mean?
Play 50 games on each. Note how often the killer BMs versus how often survivors BM on a victory, particularly teabagging at the gate.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857963#Comment_3857963
Throughout this thread, you keep quoting statistics and then not seeming to understanding how the devs came by those numbers.
SM (before the recent nerfs) had a 71% official kill rate. That kill rate doesn't include any game with a disconnect already.
They even went the extra step before the nerfs to give us extra data that if you threw out games with a disconnect and any game where a survivor died on first hook (so, gave up, was left hanging, etc) she still had a 68% kill rate. Games where anyone died on their first hook only made up 3%.
That's insane, and also means that "giving up" isn't including her numbers enough to claim she was in a good place there.
SM had 3 major problems:
- Devs saying she is a statistical outlier for a high kill rate.
- Killers saying she felt weak.
- Survivors saying she sucked to go against.
While I still say the recent changes weren't handled well by the devs, the only reasonable answer to solve all of these problems is to rework her. Which is the stated goal of the devs as well.
I'm not entirely sure why the devs decided to use the "break glass" response per se, but no one was saying she was in a good place across the board either.
I see a lot of survivors go AFK nowadays rather than suicide, especially when they get rescued when trying.
Regardless, that's neither here nor there.
Let's say SM was prenerf Blight levels of OP.
Why not simply adjust her kit a bit, rather than setting out to deliberately make her all but unplayable? That's the issue - because it sets the precedent that rather than being tweaked, killers that are too powerful could simply be gutted and left to languish for…Freddy years before getting a rework.
Maybe.
If the devs are in a good mood and a SM player doesn't annoy Mandy on Twitter.
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858112#Comment_3858112
And when the rework does come around, it could end up in a Twins situation where the quality of changes didn't justify how long it took for them to drop on a ptb only to get a few minor qol stuff since the ptb changes were just not thought out at all.
Yeah I'm still cross about that. Especially since the QOL changes made to Twins seem to be gradually getting rolled back too.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858105#Comment_3858105
Bhvr doesn't discuss bans so if someone was banned for this specific reason not many people would know about it. But it's besides the point, last info was that it's reportable and it's something that has previously been confirmed multiple times. So unless there has been a recent change which means it's not reportable then it still is as far as I can see. Difficulty in proving it might come into it but it's still reportable
Where was it confirmed? AFAIK aside from one BHVR quote, I haven't heard anything.
This was a team with a full stealth setup who hid from the start. One literally has 'DbD hide and seek professional' in their Steam profile. All have Cyrillic names and I think one is a TTV.
Never banned.
I can find anecdotes of people banned for a variety of things on Reddit, and not a single one for this.
It's either not bannable or it's technically against the rules but never enforced.
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@JackBSneak said:
So I've had it stuck in my head for a while of making my Hag the equivalent of the Blair Witch on my game and with the recent re-release of the Family Knowledge cosmetic where the symbol behind her head looks like the stick figure, I'm rattling around in my head trying to figure out some appropriate perks to run on her. I'm looking for others ideas and possibly why it would fit. Thanks in advance.
Easy enough. Stealthy Hag you don't see until she jumpscares you. Forces players to run around in the woods until she does.
Addons: Rusty Shackles, Locust.
Perks: Plaything, Pentimento, Monitor & Abuse, Knockout.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858094#Comment_3858094
So putting aside the absurd nature of the base for your argument, it would be appropriate to respond to people's concerns.
Streamers don't have enough influence to tell, say, 25 million players what to do.
Hardly absurd. Let's say someone with a massive platform like Hens or Ayrun decided to do this. It always propagates from there.
But address the hypothetical rather than deflecting. Assume that a meme started where people decided that they didn't like playing against Artist. Forget the specifics. A case where a killer that isn't OP (Artist) became disliked for some reason.
Should Artist be given the same treatment as SM?
I'm all for making common sense changes to balance an obviously broken killer, but this wasn't that. This was burning a killer to the ground rather than a few small changes to reign them in, with the express purpose of people not playing that killer - likely for multiple years, possibly indefinitely.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858092#Comment_3858092
Yes, that is what I am saying.
The idea is fine. Responding to mass outcry and revisiting is a good idea. Doing half of that and waiting three years for the other half isn't.
This is why the SM gutting is so frustrating.
It's not just Mandy gloating about it on a stream or that it was clearly done in a cynical, meanspirited way that goes beyond a simple overreaction.
It's not that BHVR had their arms twisted by a manipulative and petty portion of the playerbase, setting the precedent that all survivors need to do to get a killer nerfed is creating a meme.
It's that SM mains know, fairly conclusively that 'next year' will turn into 'it's on our radar but no changes are expected at this time', to 'we'll revisit it in 2028'. It's all but a certainty because that's BHVR's track record.
See also: Freddy rework.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858086#Comment_3858086
Slugging and hiding are very different, slugging is acceptable at any point in the match. Avoiding the objective for a prolonged time (not doing gens) is called holding game hostage as it doesn't progress the match and doesn't allow normal gameplay. This alone shows they are very different.
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858053#Comment_3858053
Its equally an offence to hide forever avoiding the objectives so if they did report that survivor to bhvr they would be shooting themselves in the foot as bhvr would also see that they have been holding the game hostage.
Nobody has ever been banned for avoiding AFK crows and hiding. The BHVR claim that it's bannable was either erroneous or outdated.
I've never found a single example of one, even anecdotal. I've also run into the same trio who claim they do it almost every game (and come in with builds specifically for it) multiple times over a few weeks. They hid every time. I reported them every time.
Never banned.
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@Berienn said:
Srsly people you need to learn how to play as survivor or find friends and play together. It's only your problem that last survivor doesn't help you and leave you bleeding out. It's not killer's fault that YOUR teammate doesn't care about you and won't help you. It's killer's job to kill ALL survivors and if last one is trying to get hatch then he NEED to leave you on the ground. if you want blame someone then blame devs for creating hatch mechanic like this. Don't blame killer for doing his job.
I play with friends.
Killers with any sort of instadown ability can slug you basically forever with zero counterplay if they are halfway intelligent.
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
There's nothing wrong with current Chucky. His mains are just Nad they have to actually think instead of getting a guaranteed hit bc power go brrrr.
What?
The issue isn't really a matter of power level. It's that a change was made, with zero testing or feedback permitted, that made him pre 'rework' Twins levels of clunky to play.
Then, when asked about it, BHVR basically said 'lol sucks to be you, maybe take the hint and play another killer. Not open to feedback on this, sorry'.
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858055#Comment_3858055
more enjoyable for survivors who don’t have to deal with lose/lose situations because he was overtuned.
He wasn't overtuned. He had one decently strong tool in chase to make up for him having zero map presence. This is on par with the original Billy rework or the Skull Merchant changes.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857941#Comment_3857941
Do Hag and Artist have a 70% KR, likely fueled by suicides and a super high DC rate?
Probably not.
I don't think it's hard to see a HUGE difference in community perception between the 2nd most hated Killer and SM
No. But what if they did?
What if some streamer decided to start a meme where people just mass DC and suicide against Artist?
Would that justify gutting Artist in expectation of some nebulous 'we'll fix her in a few years haha just don't play her for a while' statement?
Because if not, how was it justified for SM?
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858009#Comment_3858009
The nurse thing can be tossed from the conversation entirely. That was killswitching bugged content. That's WAY different than what we're talking about.
Your twins example is basically going AGAINST your point. If BHVR had a pattern of speedy turnaround for their "fixes" they'd have earned more patience and goodwill with the community to these things. They don't though... Their track record is terrible.
As for the Legion example... Please point out a patch that was anywhere NEAR what happened with SM. I'm use to seeing a nerf here or there, SM got an execution. Legit though, I wanna see what patch you're referring to that nerfed Legion.
Freddy nerfing. Which is what's going to happen with SM, I'm almost completely sure. 'We'll rework down the line', getting pushed back and finally forgotten.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857962#Comment_3857962
Hiding to evade the killer is a method of trying to enable an escape, either for the hiding survivor or even for their teammate. The last survivor in a slug for 4k situation will very often hide while sneaking to the slug in order to get the save.
And sure, on rare occasions, the last two survivors will both hide for hatch, but as killer I almost never see both doing it. And as survivor, I'll hide to get a moment to get my bearings, and then go do gens. I rarely see the last two survivors manage to hide for minutes at a time. And even if it happens, killer instinct kicks in to prevent a long hide-and-seek match.
I see it at least once every few days, sometimes multiple times a day. Sometimes it's hiding for hatch, sometimes it's hiding to BM or just to grief.
The problem is that there are ways to avoid AFK crows completely, these have been around forever and they either cannot or have no interest in fixing. I've had people do this for over 20 minutes before, just going from locker to locker.
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857903#Comment_3857903
I have never bled anyone out for 4 mins straight as that is boring and risky because the survivor is just going to get up vs 1 2 3 your out with hook states. However, slugging itself isnt toxic and I think its viable but for the killers that just use knockout and sug survivors to bleed them out only, is silly. I get the denial of certain perks but at that point just go play pyramid head and cage them. It would be better for both parties.
It's 100% a problem. Maybe 1 killer in 20 will do it, especially on games where they clearly had a bad time of it. While it's annoying, it's not 20 minutes of wasted time annoying.
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@brewingtea said:
You only had one sore winner. The others that said anything were just whining because they died. Take the W and ignore them.
I get that teabaggers can be annoying, but the game right before "Now annoyed" didn't even have that! You just lost.Then you played a series of games that were sweaty (by your own admission!) but when the players (that you just dominated) point that out, it gets under your skin?
Also, if I had a SWF kill themselves for the memes, I would just laugh and take the BP. I'm not saying your annoyance was "wrong" but different people react to memes differently. For example, you tunneled 1 guy out and he got mad. But in a later match, you took 1k for your pip and they were cool with it.
If you don't think that first guy had any right to complain, despite the fact that he died, then I would argue when the SWF does it to you (memes, but throws in the end) you have EVEN LESS right to complain, given you won 100%. How were they supposed to know they weren't facing ME, who would have laughed along with it?
If you care about outcomes, then take the 4k. If you care more about civility, then stop taking 1k for your pips.
If you want to split the difference, that's cool, but don't act surprised when survivors didn't get the memo that you had changed builds/strats.
Last game was the only lost game without teabagging and BM.
I'm saying that after a certain amount of BM, I will play harder. My point is that I see a lot of 'killers are sweaty this event' and I have to wonder how many are killers that were a bit more chill, got tired of the BM and decided that it's better to get called sweaty by sore losers than teabagged by sore winners.
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@Boons123 said:
Over the past 3 months: All the killers I've played against have had the exact same strategy Sulg the 3rd survivor to looking for 4th survivor, Some killers were not satisfied with 3 and a half minutes, they went as far as carrying the survivor who was 5 seconds away from death and Hooking the survivor to milk more time.
Literally not a single match did the killer not use this strategy.
Before the addition of the Survivor Bot this extremely greedy strategy did not exist because the Survivor could simply DC to give the last Survivor the hatch.
As usual we see the same greedy argument that the survivor shouldn't get the hatch, without the hatch the tunnel and proxy camping become stronger than before and also how do you expect the last survivor to fix generators and escape the chase? The survivor was not designed to be self-sufficient.
I don't know what's the fun in wasting 4 minutes of my time on something that's not fun and not interactive, just greed for 4k as if there's a reward that 3k doesn't provide, just kill the third survivor and let this player continue the game instead of using the player as a timer.
If you can't kill the fourth survivor, it's not the end of the world, your device screen won't explode, the game won't consider you a loser. On the contrary, killing 3 survivors is considered a win, and the survivor escaping through the hatch is not considered a win for the survivor or a loss, it will be considered a draw for the survivor.
Rubbish.
I see this maybe 10% of the time, maximum.
Yes it's a problem, but you're exaggerating.
Also - if we're talking wasting time, survivors can hide and avoid AFK crows to stall the game out for 20 minutes or more and it's not even on BHVR's radar.
@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856405#Comment_3856405
Or, we make the main objective more accessible relative to how many survivors there are left so survivors don’t feel the need to hide out for the hatch. That is the REAL reason we end up in this statemate.
If the hatch were removed survivors would still try and escape via the doors, which would see an increase in sole survivor and wake up, and then Killers would moan they need to be nerfed. The conversation would then become ‘I need to slug because of Sole Survivor and Wake Up’ when the real reason they’re slugging is the reason they’re doing it now - they want an easy 4K. There’s always an excuse, but that’s always the reason.
Alright.
So are we going to increase killer speed proportional to how many gens are done?
This is pointless us versus them. The real answer is stopping the tricks to avoid AFK crows, so that people cannot play hide and seek forever.
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
I never understand when people say they want to play chill.
So as killer am I supposed to just not chase you when I see you? Not defend gens? What?
As survivor am I not supposed to loop you and just run in a circle while letting you down me?
I get it more I'm side modes that have something to offer, but throwing snowballs gets boring after the first 2-3 times and the snowmen are useless to hide in. So what should we be doing if not playing the game?
To me, playing chill = do your objective but also be mindful of the event and fun of the other side. Interact with snowmen. Run some silly perks. Let people get a bit of BP before you kill them.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857762#Comment_3857762
And will 100% get fixed before too long, it's just too heavily complained about not to.
I sincerely hope so, my friend. It is getting out of hand.
Not a whataboutism, but I think survivors being able to permanently avoid AFK crows is a way bigger problem. At worst, bleedouts waste 4 minutes of my time. Hiding griefers can waste 20+
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857522#Comment_3857522
So if, let's be generous and say, 60% of players find something to be so unpleasant they'd rather eat a penalty than chance playing against it, we should simply ignore it?
We should disregard that feedback and carry on? That seems like a very poor idea. Imagine if we had done that with PTB buffed Twins. "Oh, most of our community hates this Killer and finds matches against them unbearable? Oh well, they'll just have to get used to it"
Not a great idea, as I'm sure you can see.
Thing is - was this organic? Because I don't think there's anything particularly annoying about SM that isn't more true of other killers.
Or was it a forced meme that got out of hand?
Regardless, it does indeed set a crap precedent. Because now people know that they have the power to force BHVR to completely trash killers at will by simply killing themselves.
I mean - I'm a Hag and Artist main. Two killers that people don't enjoy facing. Would it be fair to completely gut these killers?
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@Phoenix__ said:
Is it just me or does anyone else get games with killers that have extremely fragile egos and if they don't get a 4k it's like their life is over because this game is in a disgusting state game after game after game being left to slug around for 5 mins or more while killers desperately search for last there needs to be some sort of penalty for this as people come to play dbd not slug simulator it is pathetic how many times this goes on the way i see it if they are wasting peoples time letting people slug for a while bleedout bar then if thats the case the time those survivors spend on the ground killers should receive a time penalty for the amount of time said player was slugged because it happens near enough every game
I see just as many survivors playing hide and seek for 10+ minutes because someone MUST get hatch.
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855891#Comment_3855891
It does answer it. As a killer we dont care how you die. As long as your dead. What difference does it make. We just want the survivor out of the game by any means necessary. Who cares if you bled out.
I care. Bleedouts suck. I'll only do it when there's a very BM survivor or team.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857808#Comment_3857808
I feel like many people on these forums say "I want to play chill" but mean "I want to win by expending little to no effort".
Those aren't the same thing, but it explains a lot about how people tend to talk about "balance" sometimes.
When I say I want to play chill it's more I want room to fool around without getting crushed. I don't mind losing, but stomps are zero fun.
Problem is that I can either come in loaded for bear or there's a better than even chance that I've lost the second I clicked ready. You aren't going to beat a team that is on the ball with meme addons and perks.
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@SAWII said:
You can play as chill as you like OP, but you can’t make other people play a certain way.
@CrypticGirl said:
If you're going to play chill, you need to be comfortable losing sometimes (if not all the time). This goes for both sides.
@MechWarrior3 said:
Players are going to play how they play. Event or not. Its their game and unfortunately we cant control that.
I'm fine with losing, mostly. It's the endless BM that eventually gets under my skin. Killers can be irritating in their own way too, but aside from the very occasional 4 man bleedout moron it's pretty mild. And that will get fixed sooner than later.
Survivors on the other hand - even by the law of averages, maybe 25% of the survivors I lose to will sit in the exit gates to BM. Or worse, 2 or 3 play hide and seek for the entire match and don't even touch gens. Yes, it's technically against the rules but even on the Reddit I cannot find any case, even anecdotal, of someone getting banned for it.
There are few things more frustrating than having your time wasted.
I'd say 5% of killers I've lost to BM at all, and a fraction of that in a way that deliberately wastes my time.
@GeneralV said:
I give up and go play survivor.
Meanwhile, the survivor experience:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CGJK8T2JKOR1/image.png
Awesome event.
Oh the bleedouts are really annoying too, or the 'I really want that mori' type but those are really, really rare. And will 100% get fixed before too long, it's just too heavily complained about not to.
However, if we're going to compare something analogous, survivors that hide and avoid crows to BM or stall the game out waste far more of your time.
Something that's not even on the radar.
@sickdeathfiend said:
I honestly dont know why anyone bothers trying to player survivor anymore.
Survivor is miserable as a solo, but you cannot balance it for solos otherwise SWFs poop on everyone. The best of two bad options is balancing mostly around SWF. Yes that sucks, but you always have the option of finding a bunch of people who play via the Discord.
Game is night and day doing that.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857585#Comment_3857585
I feel that way with Kindred and Lightborn anyway. May as well get some BPs and it's optional. Nobody has to run it that doesn't want to.
Before it was changed BBQ was the most common killer perk AFAIK and it had nothing to do with the auras.
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@Rlabotath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857102#Comment_3857102
Pentimento, enough said
Haunted Grounds, Totem Defense that can snowball
Ruin, passive regression that doesn't require you to do anything
Blood Favor, blocks pallets which can stop Pallet Saves and deny loops
Crowd Control, the nerf did impact it some, but can still deny troublesome loops
Face the Darkness, built in Totem Defense AND detection AND Screams
Lullaby, need I say more? 5 stacks is stupid
Plaything, enabler of Pentimento singlehandedly AND can also get free injures/hooks, plus Self Defense on Totem
Third Seal, Unironically powerful, has the ability to deny many perks, including Killer Detection perks
The totems that need bigger buffs so they actually ARE HR/HR is Two Can Play and Wretched Fate. Wretched Fate should (imo) make the obsession Incapacitated, only able to hook save and cleanse the Totem, with a blocker from other survivors breaking it for 40/50/60 seconds. Two Can Play needs more duration.
Any I didn't mention are O.K. but not HR/HR.
I'll happily admit I was wrong about Haunted and BF but Lullaby is trash.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
I do! My bloodpoints perk idea!
Bloodpoints Hunter
- Gain 50/75/100% Bloodpoints in all categories.
Also, Left Behind could easily have the exact same use for Killers as it does for Survivors.
Monstrous Shrine could extend your hook time if the Killer is within X meters.
I think shared perks would be a cool idea 💡
Do you have any ideas? Please post them in this thread!
BP perks are cute in theory but in reality feel far too mandatory and mean that you're effectively playing with 1 less slot available.
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I play both sides about equally.
Four little tricks I've discovered that I've found effective, or at least fun - although I wouldn't try all of them in serious matches.
Killer:
- Franklins + Weave Attunement is a bit weak now but combined with Insidious (or any sort of undetectable killer)…whack survivor, break off chase, hide near item and jump out when someone comes and grabs it. Utterly hilarious. Ghostface is incredible at this.
- Human Greed + Hoarder + event offerings is actually quite strong right now, if you want something different. LOTS of aura reading, especially on smaller maps.
Survivor
- Lara's perk Finesse is sleeper insane. It completely throws off experienced killers timing wise. There are quite a few perks like this which, while not meta, are both uncommon enough and effective enough that they are really potent.
- It seems like common sense, but generally try to do the 'middle' gen as soon as possible on most maps, as this can help prevent 3gen situations from occurring later.
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@Atacus7 said:
Hi.
I have 4000 hours in the game. But that doesn't mean what it did a year, two year, or especially three years ago.
I play survivor mainly and in Solo Q. For reference, I've been playing since 2018. I would describe myself as a causal gamer. Most of my games I get tunneled out immediately.
Either I'm matched with a better team than me, so I'm tunneled for weakness. Or I'm matched with noobs, in which case, I'm tunneled for showing any skill at all.
I know streamers love this for content. But this isn't my day job. I do this for fun. I'm just losing hope in this game which I love and have invested so much time an money in.
Does anyone else experience this?
If you lost in 2 seconds you were facing a hacker.
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@tricks5776 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857102#Comment_3857102
Blood Favor, Crowd Control, Ruin, Haunted Grounds. There’s 4.
Niche, mid, very mid, incredibly mid. BF works well on some survivors but smart folks know how to play around it. It is a godsend on Game at least.
There's a reason BF is not and has never been meta.
The rest of these are kind of a fart.
@tricks5776 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857104#Comment_3857104
Blood favor so slept on. Shutting down one of the main chase resources ensures pressure through fast downs.
And yet you never see it in any sort of top level or tourney play, even where other perks are restricted.
Why do you think that is?
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@tricks5776 said:
Totems are high risk, high reward. Thrill isn’t meant to make hexes permanent, just help you get more value out of them. That’s a minute not spent on gens. Also it’s not like that’s gonna happen every match. Here someone was prepared. It is what it is.
Name two totems that are high reward without mentioning Devour.
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@Nazzzak said:
Yes, it's pretty bad. We have both a Bloodhunt and Bloodfeast coming soon during the event, I'm guessing that's why bp earnings are pretty dismal at the moment.
Huh. When?
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@Prometheus1092 said:
At first I enjoyed the event, was fun having snowmen around and killers being stealthy. But already it's run it's course for me. Snowmen are always getting in my way as survivor and killer. I like the indoor maps, but they are unplayable with the snowmen blocking the corridors and stairs. RPD in particular is a nightmare.
Love the snowmen (when they don't block me in somewhere), but BP is barely more than regular play.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856583#Comment_3856583
B tier in your hands, sure. When the best killer players in the game are calling for her to be nerfed, it sounds like the skill issue is actually on you.
Yes. I can also make up things to post on the internet.
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@upsideinsanity said:
The body blocking is one thing but getting stuck because of them is wild. Also seeing them spawn on top of things like boxes or goop piles in midwich is great -_-
I got trapped by one last night on survivor for long enough to get an AFK crow.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856593#Comment_3856593
I still feel like just folding in any other change you also don't like into this discussion is a little inappropriate, it muddies the waters. Besides, why stop there? There've been more bad changes than just that.
Best to keep our focus on the things that follow a pattern, otherwise we'll lose focus completely.
It's a pattern. Maybe a bigger pattern but a pattern nonetheless.
Survivors don't like a killer. Survivors complain. Killer is nuked from orbit or denied really positive changes often followed by a lot of gloating on the forums.
Now sure killers do the same, but it's one thing to nerf MFT and another thing to nerf an entire kit to that level.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856587#Comment_3856587
Yeah, but that's a completely different situation than the one being discussed.
The pattern being discussed is things being intentionally overnerfed so they're effectively removed from play until a later date. That's happened twice, and didn't happen to the Twins, who were buffed overall.
It falls into the same domain of 'really bad precedent' honestly. Twins might even have it worse, as now that their rework was cancelled it'll probably never, ever happen while at least SM mains can hope for a rework in 2027 or something.
I'm sure all Freddy mains are worried as hell right now.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm not sure why people count the Twins rework in this conversation, that was very obviously a different situation- not least because the Twins were in fact buffed from where they were before, not nerfed.
That being said, I also don't much like this precedent, though we must also acknowledge why it's happening. It's happened to two things so far - Skull Merchant and the Knotted Rope addon - and both have a specific reason that they happened. Not good reasons, but it is more specific than just "they didn't like the thing".
To be constructive about the Knotted Rope - as I've spoken about Skull Merchant ad nauseum already lol - I recognise the concern BHVR had with it being a problem over the period that they wouldn't be around to fix it, and I'd like to offer this olive branch: You should've killswitched it instead.
That isn't what the killswitch is for, of course, and it'd set a bad precedent too with people thinking anything they think is simply unbalanced and nothing more could also be killswitched, but I think that would've been a less distasteful situation than just flat out making the thing worthless.
Personally, I just would've left it as is and took the risk that people made it obnoxious, but if action needed to be taken I think bending the rules on the killswitch would've been healthier than the road they did take.
Because rather than seeing how it played out on live, the Twins rework was almost completely reverted in favor of some mild QOL changes. Addons were left untouched as some of the worst in the entire game.
Then most of the big QOL changes were at least partially reverted.
It's not the Skull Merchant nerfs but close enough that it calls the cops when the Skull Merchant nerfs play loud music.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
What were the devs even THINKING? Was ANY playtesting done at all? Or did they just want to appease all the crybaby killer mains who were upset about Chucky rightfully getting nerfed, so they brought old scamper back into the game.
This killer is an instant DC now. Literally no counterplay at any tile if the user has a fraction of a brain cell.
She's B tier at best. This is a skill issue, sorry to say.