Entinaty
Entinaty
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@skylerbound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905295#Comment_2905295
I mean, his power is his already anti-loop. His bonus free ability to zone on top of that is equivilant to Spirit's old stand still "tech". Run to a loop, he puts his sword down and follows you until you either drop the pallet or you keep running into his goo or away from the loop to a dead zone. It's a win/win for the killer and a zero for the survivor. The canceling is not long enough, the twins got a harder nerf in that department.
I disagree when it comes to comparing old Spirit's standstill mechanic to Pyramid Head's anti-loop because as the mechanic implies you could literally get free hits by standing still as there was no tell if you were phasing or not. Pyramid Head is the opposite of this problem as you can see and hear when he is doing it. While it is true that they can follow you with the sword in the ground they can't do it indefinitely and actually getting anyone into Torment status will forever be harder than what the old standstill mechanic was.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905262#Comment_2905262
Yeah but it has gotten way quieter and less overwhelming than it was before. It was hard for me to ignore. Maybe some QoL adjustments for her are necessary right now but just know when I say I don’t think she needs a buff, it’s coming from a place in my heart that doesn’t want to go through that again like back before her nerf announced.
Until it comes to MDR and DCB anyway and then its basically right back to where we started.
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@[Deleted User] said:
My go to idea is Hide & Seek game-mode. No perks, no gens, max fog. If the killer finds you, they chase, if they interact with you it's an instant Mori, then the killed survivor turns into a killer and also joins into the hunt.
Points awarded for catching survivors, chasing survivors, stalking survivors
Points awarded for evading killer, getting chased by killer, or being bold and moving alot instead of hiding.
That is an awesome idea and would be very interesting from a SWF perspective.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/319411/new-game-mode
Omg, Match Roulette, randomly choosing a character and perks from your loadout, that would be hilarious. Just watch me get Feng min with botany Knowledge, No mither and Left behind 🤣🤣
Would need a serious BP bonus for people to play it. But it would be hilarious
I would be for a BP bonus in either normal or new game modes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2906761#Comment_2906761
I agree with the sentiment, but the issue is how much gen progress could be completed during the time your trying to find a good totem spot to curse it. Killers don't have that kind of time to kill in the current match balance.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2906341#Comment_2906341
This. I agree with this whole heartedly. Block totem cleansing for either a certain amount of time, or until a certain amount of generator progress has been completed. Totem spawns are awful, the amount of times I've spotted one during the 360' spin around my survivor right at match start is unreal.
I say the way to combat that would be to have killers just be able to set a Hex anywhere that is not problematic at the same speed that a Boon can be blessed. I would say akin to Trapper that can pick up a trap and almost set it anywhere.
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Let killers pick their own Hex spawn points.
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I find that it would be very interesting and finally a unique killer concept that isn't just stuck on the ground and has some good counterplay because people can just look up.
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@AsherFrost said:
As you've already probably noticed from the replies, we have a stubborn, immature, childish subset of people who think DCing or suiciding against nurse is the way to have her nerfed, as even though she has been reworked several times, they really don't want to have to deal with a killer so unique.
Exactly. Honestly I believe that they need to come up with more unique killers instead of limiting them like they do currently. I'm not saying create Nurse 2.0 but at least something that is a bit of a step up from Onryo.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
The issue with the perk is not how fast it can heal, it's the fact that its infinite and spamable.
It gives such great value. Imagine if killers could reapply hexes. That's how stupid this perk is. and if you think 1 CoH is stupid, just remember you can have multiple Coh"s on a map.
Killers did have something similar that was old Ruin: Undying. I find it hilarious that a Killer perk that was so similar to the Boon mechanic was basically gutted so shortly after release without the wait and see approach that people are saying that the devs are taking with COH. I also find it strange that the issue was that Survivors didn't have time to find and cleanse multiple totems but that doesn't seem to be an issue now as hard as it is to keep Hex perks active for any good length of time in most games these days.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2863251#Comment_2863251
The same way they made Sadako after CoH 😐️
True.
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@Pulsar said:
I just can't understand how BHVR simultaneously designs a perk like Hex: Plaything, a wonderfully designed and engaging perk but then also greenlights Circle of Healing.
Maybe there are also two perk designers, just like there are two writers for the lore.
The same way that they made Hex: Pentimento after COH was introduced.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2850373#Comment_2850373
Lies. In fact, this will promote tunneling even more, because winning a 3v1 is a lot easier than a 4v1, and tunneling one out of the game while gens take even longer would make the game extremely easier than it already would be for killer.
Let's not pretend that killers who tunnel one out early game will stop doing it by nerfing generator speeds (which are fine, by the way), that's just being delusional or blatantly disingenuous
I agree with you regarding not making gens take too long but honestly BHVR themselves aren't really addressing the problem of gen speeds overall. With every killer there always seems to be some new way to either regress or block a gen (Hello Merciless Storm and Call of Brine). I honestly think that they should take time as a whole to address the issues with base gen speeds and base regression so that they don't have to keep coming up with more gen regression/gen blocking perks on every killer.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814819#Comment_2814819
They can nerf COH again if they want, but I don’t wanna hear killers complain how the survivor meta doesn’t change.
Its basically a meta race between the two sides that will complain about the strongest perk/combo in the other's arsenal and will continue to the end of time. And to be fair Killer meta also got changed due to buffed DMS/Pain Resonance and look at the complaints that got.
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I believe it is fine as is.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800493#Comment_2800493
Ok and? All other survivors suffer from the debuff (including healing debuff), a 33% healing only buff to the obsession isn't game changing at all, especially without extremely good coordination which you don't have in most pub games.
DL encourages going for multiple hooks, and it's power increases as you build up pressure. Paired up with thana you just need a couple of hooks and that slowdown can be really felt.
Plus, slowdown perks can't be too strong alone, because there are so many of them that sticking them together will make the game literally unplayable (other than extremely dull and boring). Just look at new DMS paired with scourge hook PR.
I respect your perspective even though I don't agree with it due to the fact that the 33% is given for doing nothing at all and like I said before to get to that equivalent value for the Killer wouldn't mean anything due to the game already being pretty much decided at that point. Besides the bonus for altruistic speeds can also be stacked and used in combos with other perks and items like COH and medkits, both of which are commonly used.
Honestly I would rather not have any gen speed/regression/blocking perks or add-ons in the game but as the developers don't seem to be willing to address base regression or repair speed at all I would rather have weaker perks like this addressed as in the current game it is currently get better slowdown far easier with other perks.
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@egg_ said:
Isn't DL a stable perk on comp blights builds if the player actually knows how to play blight?
Not that it being used on an S tier killer changes the state of the perk on other killers, but I think it's on a good state right now. It doesn't really need neither buffs nor nerfs, especially not on the obsession condition
I would unfortunately disagree with you on it being in a good state at the moment as it gifts a Survivor with 33% altruistic speed for healing and unhooking without them having to do anything. To get the same equivalent on generator slowdown the Killer would have to get 10 hooks, meaning that at least 2 survivors would have to be dead after being hooked 3 times or if played efficiently all but the Obsession would already be dead and at that point generator slowdown doesn't matter as it is a race for hatch at that point. At the current level its at I would almost equate it to No Mither as it gives more value to the Survivors in the game than the Killer.
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@Predated said:
My biggest issue with Dying Light is that it has no use once the obsession is dead. Like, at what point in stacks is that situation unfair for the obsession to die?
STBFL is a lot more effective on a lot of killers, and you keep those stacks too. Furtive Chase has also been changed so that the obsession dying keeps you your stacks. Dying Light is the odd one out here, which is weird, because if Dying Light is already at a point where killing the obsession would give "too much" of a slowdown, then at least 2 non-obsessions are dead on hook already and the generators are clearly not even close even if the obsession were to die.
I understand the original Dying Light makes devs a bit cautionary about giving killers a permanent 20%+ slowdown by killing the obsession, but now leaving the obsession alive as long as possible is often more beneficial rather than killing them asap. Let alone that Mori's have been nerfed too.
True. Maybe shouldn't be as strong as original but the current version definitely needs a buff.
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@XombieRocker said:
I would remove or decrease the bonus for the obsession, but don't think this would make it all that great anyway.
The biggest problem with this perk is that (similar to huntress lullaby) if you get a lot of stacks on it at a point where they are useful, you are probably already winning and didn't really need it. It just makes you win harder. If they don't want to rework it completely, they could change it so that it gives a bigger speed decrease per hook, but can only get 1 stack per survivor.
That's a good idea.
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@lagosta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790130#Comment_2790130
I am sorry if I came out aggressively. I will address the points in your second paragraph and give you my personal opinion on why I think PT gets more credit for what it should. I will change Guilty Side to Other Side as my first post was unintentionally too focused on one application of the Bad Faith discourse.
Bad Faith has a formal yet broad definition that I will not address here, but one known technique for its application in general discourse is to set the arguments and put the burden of proof on the other side even when, sometimes, the proof of the negative statement is unfeasible. That tactic is unfortunately used by many denialists to lend credibility to their claims while tricking others into a lose-lose situation of finding an improbable counter-example or being handed an impossible task. An example is Black Swan Paradox, when centuries ago in Europe black swans were not believed to exist as they were not native to the region. The argument stated that "All swans seen so far are white, therefore all swans that exist are white", a clear extrapolation. Disproving that belief by counter-example would require someone to discover a new Continent and bring a bird from Australia.
In a similar fashion, by stating PT is not needed and inquiring proof from the others you're handing them the impossible task while not providing a setting stage or clear goal. Is a compilation of win rates of 30 games with and without the perk enough? Perk popularity versus outcome? Video evidence of one match in which the perk made a difference? What I personally observed in this kind of discussion is that Stats released by the devs are often discredited by the members of the community if they do not fit their narrative and personal experience, especially when reinforced by the Negativity Bias.
Now if you want to know what I think of PT, I'll be using the stats from https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Prove_Thyself and https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Repair_Time_Calculation and keep in mind that PT doesn't stack.
PT is niche and overrated.
The most infuriating aspect of playing against PT is seeing a gen pop up roughly 25(4 men)-30(3-men) after the beginning of the match. That has a psychological impact on the killer, again Negativity Bias, but is strategically bad for the survivors. Even with PT, they would've made more progress and impact working on different gens at the start of the trial working at 4c/s instead of 0.8 or 0.91c/s. The scenario where PT is indeed invaluable is two survivors collaborating to break a strong 3-gen, assuming the survivor with PT is not the one being chased. In that situation, the perk can cut at most 6 seconds from the repair time (47.06-40.92) and, while each second in that situation is critical, reaching a 3 gen is not a merit of a killer instead more fault of survivors, exceptions are given by the map layout (Azarov's Resting Place, Suffocation Pit) where I've seen 5 gens spawned on one side, but those are games lost to RNG.
When you look at team efficiency, an exhaustion or second chance perk that granted 6 more seconds in a chase is giving 6 more seconds to each of your team members, up to 18 seconds of teamwork. Those perks are also popular because they are in general selfish, and most of the population of this game plays SQ, not relying on their team. SWFs make the best use of it by having dedicated gen-jockeys and other team members more suited with experience and perks for Chase.
In summary, PT requires coordination, stacks suboptimally, its best use case is when the killer ignores you, and the scenarios where it can make a difference can generally be avoided by breaking 3 gens before they even happen.
Very interesting take I didn't think of it in that way honestly. Hopefully in the next Developer Q&A we can maybe have them address something for base regression of generators or something that will make it more impactful. Along with changes to the current regression/blocking and speed perks for gens.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790153#Comment_2790153
Perish the thought. May such an atrocity never come to pass.
Amen to that. Good luck in future trials and continue to seek knowledge from the Sacred Bush.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790075#Comment_2790075
At Dead Dawg Saloon, I have never successfully hid in a bush. Every killer cheats with bright Nvidia filters. So you can't hide. Perks need to be fair and balanced, not with this kind of unfairness. These kind of slowdown perks and perks that prevent doing the objective is too strong.
Were you playing as Claudette?
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@TheGrimQueefer said:
Some good points made in here. For and against.
I understand it being used to combat Scourge Hook & also it is a benefit to solo survivors. Outside of that & used by SWF, yes it is OP against all but elite killers or poor survivor play.
Exactly. Honestly I just wish for a game state where base regression actually meant something and then we could get more interesting perks for both sides and have more chases, which is the most fun.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Most people run Prove Thyself because of the increased amount of BPs you get. Buff the BPs you get for repairing Generators (seriously, 1250 for a full Gen is really outdated considering that I can get almost the same amount by hitting 4 Great Skill Checks), and you will see less Prove Thyself.
And personally, two Survivors with Prove Thyself on one Gen is still better than two Survivors without Prove Thyself on two Gens...
Fair enough.
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@lagosta said:
Putting the burden of proof on the supposed guilty side is a lazy strategy to instill bad faith in a discourse. If you really think PT is impactful then share your experience through collected data or other evidence you managed to acquire. Do not just point fingers and delegate the responsibility of a counter-argument you didn't bother to elaborate on.
Well this is an interesting response to a simple question of whether or not we need Prove Thyself in the game currently regarding gen speeds. My experience with it is that I would rather split up on gens instead of having two or three people hovering around one generator as it is more efficient and splits the killer's attention.
Also regarding "putting the burden of proof on the supposed guilty side is a lazy strategy to instill bad faith in discourse" does my question honestly seem that way? What guilty party? I am not shaming anyone for using the perk and had a simple opinion that with gen speeds they way they currently are that if base regression was addressed then maybe we would get more unique perks instead of the base gen regression/gen blocking perks we seem to get with each new Killer announced. Would be surprised if the new Ringu chapter didn't come with some type of gen blocking/gen regression perk since it seems like they are currently in that type of development cycle. Honestly perks that effect gen speeds or regression I believe shouldn't be necessary but I understand why they are currently used on both sides.
My apologies for whatever I said in the original post that caught your ire, just simply wanted to know people's opinions on this perk and why they like or dislike it.
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@KerJuice said:
You’re probably seeing a rise in PT due to the shift to the new meta: Scourged Hook & Dead Man’s Switch. If the killer has Pop Goes the Weasel on top of that, Prove Thyself only delays the inevitable.
Good point that it is probably due to the meta. But if they address gen speeds seriously instead of just making more gen regression/gen blocking perks then more fun builds could be utilized.
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Honestly don't think anything is wrong with Ruin and Tinkerer as currently constructed since Ruin is useless on its own in most cases and Tinkerer seems to only be decent if the killer has map mobility. Honestly I wish that they address gen regression as a whole before any of these perks to be honest.
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@Tr1nity said:
that’s a lot of proof
😊.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Why focus on Boil Over and not poor hook spawns? Or poor map design? Or, arguably, poor boon design (since it's range is big and it goes through floors)? Or just poor foresight in general and not knowing that these kinds of things are possible when everything is played to make it happen?
So simply put blame the developers since they are responsible for all of the things that you have mentioned.
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@lauraa said:
if DMS comes to LIVE I'm sure good survivors will show us how they play around it and the hype will blow over.
I agree its toxic on paper but I'm going to reserve judgment until I see for myself.
This.
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Wasn't this add-on already nerfed in a previous patch? Why would they need to further nerf something that they already nerfed?
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Honestly should have just left it as it was if this was all they were going to do to it. My beliefs are still the same as they were before regarding bringing Hexes up to have an equivalent power to the current boon mechanic or at least revisit the nerf that they gave to Hex: Undying if the devs believe that boons are fine as they are currently.
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In my opinion the Hex mechanic should be entirely reworked as it currently doesn't offer enough protection for Killer perks. Something along the line of a passive perk that goes along with their other 4 perks that starts weak but then can gain power over time or perhaps gain power per number of gens completed. That way it is on par with the current Boon mechanic and can allow Hexes to be reworked to balance.
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While the perk is powerful I believe that it is fine as is and should come to live so that finally something can break the slate meta that we are in and maybe things going forward will be more interesting. DMS was complete garbage that wasn't run due to its activation condition. I would rather see a powerful perk be brought up than adding it back of other useless perks. We already have enough of those on both sides already.
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Honestly I think the Nurse is fine where she is and we should honestly hope that BHVR developers look to her as inspiration for designing more killers going forward. Not necessarily oppressive killers but those that break this tedium of killer ideas that they are currently mired in. For example, why don't we have killers that fly across the map or dig tunnels and capture their prey from underground? Why not killers that can use fog our strike from darkness? We need more killers that break convention and invite new ways to play this game instead of the same old boring tag/hide and seek simulator that has arguably been stale for the past couple of years. What this game needs is growth and experimentation, not bringing killers that actually have some uniqueness back into the same old mired drudgery that most of the others are currently in.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
The real reason why they don’t want to nerf COH is because since the perk is very strong right now they don’t want to nerf it and be accused of it being P2W. When Ash came out M.O.M was so OP that it became meta instantly but it was nerfed in 1-3 months cause of how strong it was and people accused the devs of making Ash P2W because a lot of people bought Ash and then the perk was nerfed after people bought him. They don’t want to repeat the same mistake
Then don't create Ash 2.0.
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@tenoresax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737964#Comment_2737964
Then nerf CoH, don't try to balance bullshit with more bullshit.
If only I had the confidence in BHVR tp actually do actually have the sense to do that. It seems lately that for every 1 thing they do right they do 2 things wrong. For instance, they saw the backlash that old Undying had with Tinkerer and nerfed it to not be as powerful but then decided to have an entire mechanic for survivors that was essentially the same thing. Strike 1 against.
Then after creating this new mechanic that they didn't seem to think would undermine Hex Totems in anyway they then came out with the Artist that had a Hex perk that required cleansing which is now unnecessary. Strike 2 against.
Then we come to this latest Developer Update that outside of a few things was lukewarm at best and given all of the controversy surrounding COH I find it odd that it wasn't mentioned at all from anything I have seen so far. It would at least be something to at least have them mention looking into it even if they don't plan to do anything at the moment but from all I have seen they haven't. Strike 3 against.
Honestly I believe that the Hex mechanic needs to be reworked from the ground up and perhaps either let Killers set their own totems or give them a passive Hex buff along with their perks that starts weak and gets stronger as the game is slipping away. But we will see what the future holds.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737949#Comment_2737949
Their system for boosting SoloQ should be
- Add voice communication. Because everyone knows this is what makes SWFs strong. A freaking up-to-the-second report on the Killer gives Survivors so much to react on.
- Balance around the new power-level of Survivors.
This 'We don't think voice comms does much. Have another perk or Killer power that relies on Survivors not being in voice comms' development process needs to stop.
Until they admit it; Killers will beat SoloQs, and SWFs will beat Killers. And the game will be a mess.
I honestly don't think why they cannot at least add that or at least have a PTB about it in future to see. Is it really that hard to implement if other PVP and PVE games do it?
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@tenoresax said:
No, do not ever bring back Old Undying.
But why not. COH is technically on the same level imo.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737932#Comment_2737932
We could wish, but it won't happen.
I hate to join the meme, but it frequently looks like Killers get massive nerfs and slight buffs, while Survivors get massive buffs and slight nerfs. I mean, look how long Legion has been absolutely worthless to play as anything more than a meme.
Or, better example:
When Killers had an audio bug where Survivors could not hear the TR music; fixed in a day. Top priority.
Survivors get a bug where they make no noise in the Dying State, which makes it easier to hide? Been in the game for over a year.
And you can't tell me they can't just put a Killer & a Survivor in a match while checking the code, and smack the Survivor until the bug procs, then check the code and see why it failed to call 'DwightDyingSound . mp3' or whatever.
Very true. That bug is still and honestly find it quite frustrating sometimes as well that it is as awful regarding sound as it is. We can dream though.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2737938#Comment_2737938
the entire reason they yeeted old undying was because it punished solos disproportionate to SWF and if theres something we really need to do it's make that 15% gap even wider.
theres a difference between going to one totem over and over that's highlighted with sound effects and an aura and overall is very flashy and finding potentially up to 5 totems in solo queue, effectively removing any chance you have of getting all gens done the second it isn't gone by two totem cleanses.
You do make a fair point and while I wish that both were currently at full power maybe it is a subject best revisited when they try to implement their new system for solos to be able to see what their teammates are doing.
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@Hex_Salt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303869/time-for-a-return-of-old-ruin-undying
Devs never reverse decisions; to do so is an admission of defeat, something they will not allow
Fair point. I forget sometimes about the hubris that people have sometimes.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
absolutely not. not at all.
nerf circle of healing, don't bring back more bullshit to punish solos even further.
Would it really punish solos that much since prior to boons survivors never really went after totems this much. I think with the new mechanic it actually incentivizes more totem searching then ever. While it may punish solos on some level I would at least like to see the data for what it would be with both the boon mechanic and old Undying at the same time and then come to a decision.
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@AngyKiller said:
Nerf CoH. Remove the ability to overwrite Hex totems.
Seriously; Killers get a new Hex that literally relies on Cleansing, and then the devs basically remove Survivors need to ever freaking Cleanse. How baffling.
I found that odd as well that they created a perk like that soon after the boon mechanic. Maybe a rework of Hex Totems from the ground up should be in order?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303869/time-for-a-return-of-old-ruin-undying
Do you mean the prior versiins of both Ruin and of Undying?
Just old Undying.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303869/time-for-a-return-of-old-ruin-undying
As someone who plays Killer, no on old ruin. Old ruin would be a nerf from new ruin. It only works on new players and season players can easily hit those skill checks.
Not old Ruin but old Undying.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
It wouldn't really matter because killer hexes do not overwrite boons currently. So you cannot use plaything/NOED/old undying to snuff the boon totems.
I know but it would definitely give a bit of a tug of war feel. For instance if they bless a hex that goes to another dull totem and then you snuff the blessed totem and then the hex gets broken. It will then go to another dull totem giving it a chance to be around longer and actually legitimize hexes overall to be somewhat comparable to boons and give instances of choice to either bless or break totems.
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@ScottJund said:
I don't think adding more BS is the solution, they just need to nerf Circle of Healing
While I agree that things need to be toned down and would certainly hope for that route that at least if they aren't going to do anything, or anything at least anytime soon, then it would be interesting for both perks that mirror each other so well to be in the game at full power at the same time. Makes interesting data at least.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303869/time-for-a-return-of-old-ruin-undying
Do you mean the prior versiins of both Ruin and of Undying?
Not the prior version of Ruin but prior version of Undying.
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I hope that the Gearhead description in the notes are a typo because if not then it is a nerf instead of a buff. It currently activates off of good skill checks if a survivor is hit with two basic attacks but it now has an even worse and random condition of having a Survivor need to hit a great skill check. Ultimately I think that they really need to take a bat to the meta and either nerf some of the more problematic things because these changes are nice but will not mean anything as the meta won't change.
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Oh no. Quick, hide the babysitters. Tier 3 Infinite Myers coming to town with Coup de Grace.