DrDucky
DrDucky
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615032#Comment_3615032
The problem is and will always be that dbd players lack any capability to change their mind, at least the average player/old players, for example it is widely known, at least on some parts of the comp scene that you can loop artist by baiting the crows, she is still bs thanks to deadmans but you can loop her, however everyone and their mother will spout that you have to hold W as soon as she places a crow, why? Because its easier to say that holding w is the solution rather than admiting you are not good enough to loop her.
Dont get me wrong, some killers are absolute BS at loops, knight before the AI baiting bug was unavoidable, skull merchants beams are horrible, nurse errases the concept of looping.
But a lot of people repeat and repeat the same " the only counterplay is to hold W", and will ignore multiple things like dredges remant baiting, camera switch on hag, crouch teching nemesis, like man sometimes I really think people are bad on purpose when they ignore so much things they can do, then again most of the content creators for this game have this same actitude so whats to expect from the community.
This will not work if she has LOS on you, a good artist is just going to wait until you walk into the crow's beam and press CTRL. You simply cannot run past a crow before she can send it off, and she can just walk around the loop to force you into the crow and get an m1 if you dance around trying to bait.
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@Reinami said:
If they are going from "pallet to pallet" then how are all the gens not done? A single pallet break buys 15 seconds of time for the survivor. So if they go from "pallet to pallet" and drop 3 pallets that get broken, thats 45 seconds before they are even hit. How are you not finishing 3 gens by the time they are downed?
A gen takes 90 seconds might be why?
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615075#Comment_3615075
No, but I do know that M1 means basic attack.
I honestly don't know a lot of DBD lingo that I should with my hours in the game (4,285).
Sorry if it's a stupid question.
I'm learning a lot since joining the forums (I'm kind of new here).
This post is a great example of me learning about God pallets and I'm glad Mandy weighed in.
Her information was helpful and I've been applying it in my Survivor games today.
You just need to gage the strength of a loop and try to waste as much time as you can before dropping a pallet. With some exceptions where you need to pre drop or just burn a god pallet etc. But it is a huge chunk of the survivor's skill knowing and reacting to this. A good rule of thumb is, if you are not on death hook and healthy, then get as much value out of pallets as you can before dropping them. But if you are on death hook or injured and death hook especially then burn all the pallets you want, especially because by then the match is coming to an end so pallets literally do not matter then and you dying will be a much worse off thing for the team then a few pallets being gone.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I’m reposting now that I’ve calmed down a bit.
Why is it that during events we get the worst players? On survivor side we get killers that just slug, tunnel and camp the whole game and on the other side we get the hardcore top 5% SWF who finish the game before you even get one down?
It really annoys me cause I haven’t been having fun with this game for awhile since the alien chapter. I really like this game but sadly I’m growing annoyed and tired of it.
Im not completely leaving but I’m quitting till the new January update comes out. I just want to play with a fresh new update and new features
If you are finishing matches without a single down, you need to improve or your MMR is just heavily screwing you.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614285#Comment_3614285
Of course those people are good. But good players will face other good players. Maybe not every match, but countless times in 1600 games.
Magnus Carlsen, the best chess player right now and often called one if not the best of all time has a personal record of 6 won competetive games in a row. Six.
Or starcraft, even the very best are still loosing games against players in the top 5% range. It is totally normal to loose even as the best player. Unless the game is wildly unballanced.
I think we could both agree, that Carlson could probably hit say a 100 win streak, but there is simply not enough world comp chess tournaments for him to reach that. If carlson played against random people at bars for example (which is basically dbd pubs) then he could easily hit say 100 or 1000 wins. Thought I doubt he would have the sanity
I do not think it is fair to compare comp wins in a board game vs pub wins in a video game. Comp and pubs are so different from each other.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614286#Comment_3614286
More matches then then Id care to count since alien release. Just roughly the benchmark I notice for gen progress as I die.
I would like to point to the section where I mention activities in matches. While not every match is the same, I rarely find myself doing all of the gens without encountering the killer and do mention chases happen win or lose.
I also wouldnt blame the killers ability every time as there is little reason to ignore targets for someone you have to search for. Even if they patrol and interupt my repairs its not a sure thing they will get a chase out of me.
I am just amazed games could go on that long with you getting in chases and side objectives (I know not always) and you somehow doing like 3 gens or something without the rest of the team just dying.
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@Haddix said:
thoughts on the crazy crazy map rework we got recently?!
Still one of the standout imbalanced maps, decently big with some decent loops all around. But the biggest offender is that main building, with the god window and pallet etc and it being quite accessible to. Really should have just closed the window or something I do not know why they even spent any time on it since it is basically the same.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Yep, thats right, Im starting to consider my effectiveness as an individual survivor to much. Completely isolated from teamwork and based solely on my objective performance, it feels like Im playing with a handicap setting that cant be turned off. And my basis for this has absolutely nothing to do with my death or escape ratio.
75%
What do I mean? Thats how much of the primary objective I complete solo in matches that end in death. Let me reinterate that real quick, 75% for gens with an end result of me on hook.
For clarity, Im not saying nobody else does gens or I only get bad teammates. Im just stating that in matches where teammates are preoccupied and cycling through hooks, I as one indiviual can carry the TEAM OBJECTIVE to 75% before becoming the last victim myself.
I would also like to note that this is not uninterrupted progress. Mixed into this are saves, healing, totems, killers kicking my gens, and multiple chases with some or all ending in a hook. I dont claim to be better then anyone Im paired with, only that I use the tools and warnings to the best of my ability.
4 survivors - 5 gens
1 survivor = 3 gens going on 4
Absent of a complete failure, I'm seeing this as way to much objective control for someone that only considers themself simi-decent as a survivor.
Well thats just been my perspective for the last couple of weeks thats lead me to this opinion. Solo has its shortcomings but I try to rationalize it with the idea that 3 other people can/intend to play just as effectively if not better then myself.
If you have any other factor of success which aligns with this, Id like to hear more.
Do bad teammates validate why one person should be this effective?
If so, does that validate mmr giving you bad teammates to limit success?
How many matches was this? Also it seems like the fault of the killer that you were able to do 3 gens all by yourself without getting hooked once, it basically means the killer was just not pressuring you as they should be. It seems very odd you seemed to be able to do 3 gens by yourself and do totems and heals and not get chased, it begs the question of what were those killers doing the whole match?
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@egg_ said:
This just shows the absolute state of survivor players, which is also why you keep seeing threads about the state of soloq: THESE are the players you get. Which is also why you keep seeing people here crying about CoH, medkits, MFT nerfs or other busted stuff that got rightfully tuned down
Regarding the perkless nurse streak, Knightlight himself says that if he gets sniped by some decent players he will lose it. I'm following that streak and watched most of the games, and man are most of those survivors utter potatoes. The moment they see someone tryharding they either immediately give up or anyway stop thinking critically and lose any possible game sense. There's plenty of games that would've gone way differently if the survivors didn't throw by trying to protect a tunneled team mate.
Wraith is a soloq destroyer. V1 did an amazing job with his streak but again, look at the survivors' gameplay. Compare it with any comp wraith match where even the best wraiths get at most average results against equally skilled survivors.
Regarding the other nurse streak and the blight streak, I don't really think there's much skill behind them. I agree that bringing the most busted stuff on the most busted killers and playing "efficiently" too is overwhelming and particularly unbalanced, and will just give an easy win 99% of the times. Nothing skillful basically. There's no solution for that other than butchering the killers (which won't happen fortunately, because they're both pretty fun when played normally).
So, hard to swallow pill: 99% of the survivors these players went against are really bad at the game and I'm willing to bet most of them are of the kind to say "DBD is a party game" as an excuse to stay in a permanent state of cluelessness instead of trying to improve
Also, just a reminder, as soon as we get 4 really strong survivors together we get equally lasting streaks (Hens e co.?), which kinda proves my point regarding how bad most players (in this case, survivors) are
Btw I'm not in any way downplaying the skill of (most of) these players. They're really good, pair it with what I just said about the majority of the playerbase and we get these results
You are correct about a lot of these streaks boiling down to the average survivor players are just not so good but playing a blight streak for example and getting this high undeniably requires a lot of skill to pull off, even if you bring strong stuff. I have seen these blights play and they are undoubtedly extremely good. You do not get 1600 wins in a row without at least being good at the killer.
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@jamally093 said:
Originality. I get there's a meta for every killer but after a while it gets really boring to face as a survivor every Blight uses Shadowborn and speed add-ons and every Wraith uses speed breaking add-ons. I won't as much as I dislike Wraith because of how his counter works or the fact slamming a pallet down doesn't seem to work even though I pressed my button first before he swung its more annoying that every Wraith just brings add-ons to break stuff faster since I won't lie he does have other good add-ons its also because I'm tired of hearing that bell for the tenth time in a single chase.
I do not see how shadowborn is in anyway effecting how much fun your having against blight? It is actually an upside since that is being run instead of a gen slowdown for example.
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@Toaster427 said:
If you can't find survivors without aura perks then that says more about your skill rather than anything wrong with the game.
Let me just use my gps brain to find everyone.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
We are not getting even information about Solo-q and SWF escape rates. I wonder why
Because of forum posts like the above complaining if the escape rates are "too high" compared to solo Q
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Just curious about everyone's opinion on that.
No heal meta mostly means survivors are ignoring even objectives like healing and doing gens even if they are injured.
Do you think this meta is bad or good for game?
I think it is a high risk high reward strategy. It also depends on the killer, for instance not healing against twins, hag or oni is a death sentence.
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@bloodyknife said:
Freddy, Legion, Hillbilly, Onryo, Skull Merchant, and now Trickster. Who's next? Twins or maybe Singularity by making him worse than he already is?
This has to stop.
Skull merchant still sucks but she at least is more fun than before.
Legion is also more fun than before no question, I do not see how it did not?
Same with Sadako, I find her miles more fun to play compared to before (to play against is a different story though)
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612774#Comment_3612774
This problem is a direct correlation to the player bases skill level having far surpassed the games mechanics. If you were to take a mediocre survivor of todays meta and put them in a 2017 match, everyone would think that they were cheating, because they know techniques and tactics that were invonceivable at the games origins.
Nowadays we have all this techs and most players know the games basics in and out, so while technically they should heal, from a game design perspective, their skills tell them "nah, lets just slam this gen and be done with it."
You can't blame the players for this, but the players have evolved much faster then the game they are in and by now its showing very vividly. The game could need some big health updates and internal revisions, but its doubtful that BHVR will ever find the time to do so, with their 3 month release shedule. And I don't know if its even possible on a technical level to modernize some of the games aspects and mechanics.
Something like a dynamic games director that helps the side getting stomped a little bit without the other side getting the feeling that they are "rewarded for losing".
This is actually quite a good take and I do basically agree with all of it. MMR partly has contributed to this since it has meant that the variety of players has shortened in scope so you will face better players on average at the soft cap compared to the old emblem ranking system since getting to red ranks was very easy so the survivor and even killer skill variety was huge (with most obviously being not all that good).
However, with MMR this has caused people to get better and obviously with the game being out as long as it has as you seem to imply this has contributed to it a lot as well. The game without taking skill or anything like that into consideration does need a health update since its fundamentals are very flawed from a code perceptive (look at how many bugs we get introduced each patch for example). Of course that is an ideal world thing and we know that the devs cannot do this most likely due to time constraints etc despite it obviously doing wonders for the game if they did.
Where I part ways a bit is the whole healing and the perceived urge not to heal and just do gens. It is a strat that can work for sure, however it is quite a risky one especially depending on the killer you are facing.
Where it can backfire for example, regardless of the killer is if for instance you hook a guy and the whole team is injured and lets say the team is a bit behind on gens, this basically forces a heal since the killer can just proxy and snowball from there if not. Another example of where it is vital to heal is if someone is dead on hook etc. Even comp survivors heal commonly since it is worth the time investment in order to prevent future snowballing etc.
Dont get me wrong, I have had the no healing slam gens strat used against me and it sucks when it works, but equally I have had survivors try this and I have capitalised and punished it and got wins from it. It is a risky strat that again can work super well but can also backfire quite hard so taking time to heal can 100% be worth it.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612760#Comment_3612760
I disagree but fair. They nerfed anyway. But then why we are complaining now when survivors are not healing and doing their main objective.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612766#Comment_3612766
Same question for you as well. Killers were not happy with medkits & CoH. And now both nerfed to ground. Now why it's problem when survivors are not healing and doing their objective
Look at the sheer math, you could heal yourself in like 8 seconds with a medkit (or faster even) and 16 seconds with a boon. The math objectively shows how strong it is. It meant that the killer could not split pressure since any injuries without a down was a time loss almost every time which absolutely murders the killer's pressure.
Being able to heal yourself at the same speed or faster than another survivor could heal you was just simply too strong. I don't see how math wise it could not be.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Killers wanted this meta. They wanted every side objective survivors have to be nerfed: CoH, medkits, chase perks etc.
Now survivors have no reason to leave gens.
To be fair, CoH and medkits were incredibly busted.
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@CammyChameleon said:
Pointing out the most recent maps released, Toba landing, and Nostromo Wreckage, they are some very very large maps with really strange high wall tiles that make it a guessing game for both sides on where everyone is in a chase.
This is still the case for maps Like Thompson House/Rotten Fields which hasn't been touched. (Rotten Fields is the worst of them).
I think these maps are otherwise fine gameplay wise, they just need a size reduction with a little loop rebalancing. (Although in the past when this was done, the pallets were moved closer together and super easy to chain as survivor, so it would need to be thought out as to not make a free 5 gen chase).
I think honestly maps like asylum and garden of joy are far worse for size and tile strength. Those 2 maps you mentioned are actually fine for the most part (Toba however, does have a lot of clutter with trees etc which makes using certain powers a massive pain).
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@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611905#Comment_3611905
Do you know Riot games (Vanguard) or Activision (Ricochet)? They have amazing results with their resonable software.
It's a question of motivation and resources.
But if you let the client decide which value input is valid, what results do you expect. The server says OK is accepted. And then there are people who complain that there aren't more game modes or rankings/tournaments in DBD. Well, what a miracle :D
But don't worry, there will definitely be a few skins coming out to satisfy the average DBD player, which in most cases is by far enough.
I 100% agree with what you are saying.
I think part of the issue is dbd from the ground up is built with too much client based interaction. So even though I agree the devs could and should do more, I still sympathise and recognise that what they have to work with is quite a challenge compared to say if they just started from scratch because so much of it is built with a focus on client info.
I will admit though, it has got miles better in the past year or two even if it is not where it should be.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610736#Comment_3610736
AFKing multiple games will get you reported.
Also at some point the person just needs to realize they don't want to play DBD and just stop queueing up.
I 100% agree with that, people go afk, or give up for the most insane reasons. The problem is people will still queue.
To answer your first point, then people will just run at the killer then instead.
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@ArchAbhor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611905#Comment_3611905
Thats been said a number of times and doesnt answer anything I was asking.
To answer your question then, the devs have said they are taking steps to stop cheats yes.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611718#Comment_3611718
Disable hook escapes (maybe entire game, maybe first two hooks, maybe first 3 minutes), give the player an option on hook to leave the game either with a reduced or zero penalty, replace with bot.
I guess that could in theory work. I just think the devs understandably do not want to just take away the ability to attempt on hook.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611726#Comment_3611726
I have 4,000 hours in the game id guess probably 2500 to 3000 are on killer. Please stop with the "once you learn how to play the game" nonsense. This is the gaslighting that goes on in this community. I know how to play, when I get into an unwinnable game I know. I can try everything and still lose. I'm not a fan of hardcore tunneling people off hook either, it's boring. So that takes the easiest avenue to victory away because I don't care to play that way. I'm happy for you that you have 10 wins in a row with Clown, good for you.
Unless you are getting good teams on bad maps with a weak killer and a whatever build every match then I do not see how someone with your hours can be struggling so much. My whole clown example was not me trying to brag either, I am just saying that if someone like me who has about half your hours at I would say a decently high mmr can win games then I am surprised you are struggling so much.
Even just the sheer common nature of people simply just making huge mistakes and you slugging say 2-3 people (I have had survs with a lot of hours do this even). Also tunnelling a guy out is only a good strategy if you can do it since focusing on 1 guy means you are pressuring nobody else.
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@ArchAbhor said:
The steps that have already been taken have worked since I no longer see the crazy flying and speed hacking anymore, but can we get an update on whether or not the devs are taking steps to stop the subtle cheaters? I've not heard about it in awhile.
Every once and awhile I'll get a match where someone could be wallhacking, gens go way faster then usual, or survivors feel like they are faster then they should be, etc etc. There's no way of telling who is and isnt with how subtle some of this can be.
Any updates would be nice to hear. thanks!
The devs answered this on their AMA. Basically it boiled down to, it is an arms race. They patch cheats and the cheats then get better.
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@TBHartley said:
Since it's confirmed the devs are doing it... what would actually be the best combos for such a mode? I mostly mean killer but if you have Survivor ideas, please say them!
The only thing I'm gonna assume here is that you cant use two of the same killer since Survivors are skins where killers actually have unique powers, and that maaaaybe you can take Survivors to hooking without carrying? And that it's similar to how pyramid head sends Survivors off in cages? Idk the survey was very vague on that part wasn't it? But yeah what do you guys think?
Plague and twins or plague and oni. I am surprised no one else mentioned these combos since I don't think much else would come close.
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@TheSyndromeOfClowns said:
People never miss it unless you're baby new to the game? What is the point. The whole system is outdated and needs a rework.
To make doing gens less boring and quite a few perks and addons interact with it to.
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@DyingWish92 said:
I played 10 solo queue survivor games today, escaped in 8 of them. Gens got done very quickly in most of them. The 2 games I died in was to a tombstone Myers who insta killed me and a Nurse who tunneled me out of the game. Actual tunneling not what everyone crys about with tunneling. Outside of that very little challenge. Half the games I don't even see the killer until 1 or 2 gens are left. Feels like every 3 out of 4 survivors have adrenaline and killer just gets rolled all the way. Checked the build in these games and many of them don't even have toolboxes. A random Gen speed up perk here and there but nothing crazy.
I switched over to killer and the situation pretty much stayed the same. You simply cannot play an M1 killer at whatever MMR I'm at. I'm not a god at killer but I'm also not bad. I understand spreading pressure around the map, pressuring gens, dropping chase when someone is wasting my time. There simply is just not enough time to do anything with most of the killers in this game. Not bringing Corrupt Intervention just feels like a death sentence especially if you don't find your first chase within the first 30 seconds. Multiple gens are being worked on at the start because the survivors are smart and it's basically GG, god forbid someone brings buckle up and ftp combo or hooks start getting saboed.
I am on around a 10 win streak with clown without corrupt and my mmr is decently high for killer overall. It is really not as hard as you think once you actually learn the game.
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@twentyonesixtyeight said:
I played nearly 20 hours in dead by daylight. How can someone have fun in this game? You just sit on a generator and press 1 button to hit some boring skillcheck. You get tunneled. You get gen rushed. For the first time in my life, I fell asleep on my chair. I never felt so bored in my life. It's like a babysitting simulator, with loading screens and errors. The game is terribly balanced, there are bugs and the graphics are bad. I had killers who used hex pentimento and NOED and I never could see the hex totems auras. How this game is still going on for more than 7 years is unbelievable to me. Don't people have self respect and taste in video games? I honestly feel bad for y'all.
I'm glad I had this for free on Epic Games because I would have felt extremely bad for myself if I'd spent my money on this video game. I don't recommend this game to my friends, colleagues or my family for that matter.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to stop, I just never felt like this. It's depressing.
You dont like a game, just play another one. Also actually learn the game before you complain, for instance you cannot see pentimento totem auras.
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@anonjon9mm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610777#Comment_3610777
but the others do. playing solo I don't have the luxury of knowing whether or not shack pallet is gone. I can't tell you how many times I have ran into a dead zone where a baby survivor dropped every single pallet and I'm left with nothing to work with. How nice would it be to know ahead of time?These little details gives swfs a huge advantage to both solo and killer. The excuse it's not everyone or these type of teams are rare does not justify the imbalance. Both killer and swf should have a 50/50 fair chance to be competitive at all times. There's a reason every single tournament (including the official DBD) limits 1 perk, 1 item and no filters. DBD league doesn't even allow the same characters, 1 each. If survivors were allowed to do whatever it would be impossible to play competitively. There's no reason why we shouldn't adopt these rules for pub matches. As for solo, we need every single advantage we can possibly get. Limit nothing, matter of fact add an extra chest, respawn pallets do something my god solo is terrible
We do not need comp rules in pubs, if you go against a legit comp team like you are describing you will probably lose anyway regardless of comp rules or not. Plus I do not want to play dbd with my friends where each of us can only run a perk once thats just anti fun lol.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611010#Comment_3611010
My main point is the reason why BHVR have not done this is because ultimately there is no suggestion which prevents the problem entirely, only one which at most discourages it and you cannot account for context.Why is preventing the problem entirely relevant? That's a ridiculous standard. Disconnect penalties don't stop disconnects entirely, but that doesn't mean they don't have an effect. If something can help alleviate a problem, that's a good thing.
Yes, you can't literally make a player play a game if they absolutely don't want to. But you definitely can put in design elements to encourage playing or discourage leaving.
This isn't even getting into the proposed solutions to replace a survivor with a bot.
I am just thinking though, how would a bot work? Say a guy attempts on hook and then lets go, would the bot just spawn on hook and have their hook timer reset?
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610741#Comment_3610741
Hey maybe dont leave me slugged where i can get that far or maybe run deer stalker theres a counter for it.
Nobody runs deerstalker since slugging is only valid if the survivors put themselves in that spot to begin with (some killers it is more viable to do obviously).
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611005#Comment_3611005
I mean that's fair, if you know where the last survivor I can't blame you for not chasing. I was making a joke more aimed at killers who slug despite clearly not knowing where the last survivor is
Oh yeh, I never do that since 9 times out of 10 it is much faster just to kill the guy and take a hatch gamble.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610736#Comment_3610736
If people dont want to play then they will not play.This always gets brought up but there a couple of problems with it.
1: The game already has a built in penalty to discourage disconnects. It makes no sense to say 'if you leave the game X way, you get punished because it ruins the game for everyone else, but leave it Y way even though it still ruins the game, no punishment.' If the disconnect system works, either by discouraging disconnects or lessening the amount of times players who do it are in the game, there is no reason to believe that it won't work for hooks.
2: Based on my experience, I don't think its true that they won't play. Sure, sometimes they'll just AFK or go to get the killer, but lots of times when I see a survivor trying to hook suicide early get rescued, they go back to playing the game.
3: Even if BHVR is absolutely convinced that they need to allow an out system on the hook, they could just ban hook suicides early in the game but allow disconnects with no penalty and put a bot into its place.
This is an issue that massively impacts the game and they should at least try something. I could understand the difficulty before we had bots, but now that they are in it seems a relatively easy thing to address if they still want to allow an out for players without it impacting everyone else.
Again all of this just boils down to, you cannot stop people from leaving. If you do punish a self sacrifice, then people will just afk (I have saved people trying to self sacrifice and they have just stood there). Because people who truly do not want to play that match are not suddenly going to continue after you stop their suicide attempt.
Making it so that you get punished or something, or you cannot self sacrifice early is an attempt at a solution, but people will then just wait and then let go on the hook.
My main point is the reason why BHVR have not done this is because ultimately there is no suggestion which prevents the problem entirely, only one which at most discourages it and you cannot account for context.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610741#Comment_3610741
Killer slugs survivor when game is over, wasting 2 survivor's time: I sleep
Survivor crawls around edge map, wasting 1 killer's time: "soak up (???) your pride and go next"
It depends, I will sometimes slug for the 4k simply because if 2 survivors are right there it is much faster than doing a hatch dance.
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@anonjon9mm said:
We all know swf has an unfair advantage,
1. They always know where you're at. (My Scratched Myers completely useless)
2. They know exactly what direction you're coming from.
3. They know what pallets remains
4. They can coordinate perks and strategy
They have too much information, too much weapons at their disposal. If by a miracle you do get a down, for the people buckle up instantly saves them, if that fails there's someone waiting to blind you, if that fails then they sabotage, if that fails then they body block, if that fails then they crawl in front of a locker and at this point you literally cannot even pick them up with head-on flash bang waiting for you. That's 5 scenarios in which a killer can't even get 1 hook.
Then you have to deal with Gen progression, you have around 4-5 minutes on average before the game is over. You decided to nerf all but 1 gen regression perk while not addressing the gen progression on the survivors side, there's too many to name. Just watch Hens and his "fastest 5 gen" record. Game over in under 3 minutes with a coordinated swf attack.
I understand we can't punish players for wanting to play with friends and being efficient playing together but that doesn't mean they should just be allowed to have their way. what we can do is limit their abilities. none of these perks and add-ons are powerful on their own but combined and with a strategy it's devasting. I suggest that anytime a swf is detected perks should be limited to 1 per character. All 4 should not have head-on, unbreakable, windows, resilience, prove, adrenaline etc. If people choose to play with friends they need some sort of regulation, tournament style. This won't solve the issue but it will greatly inhibit their ability to bully and make a mockery of the game. This is a horror game, "survive if you can" not "kill a survivor if you can" Under no circumstances should survivors be in a position where they 99 a gen just so they can play around with a killer bullying them. They should be in fear at all times. Isnt this the point?
Most swfs do not play to this degree. For instance me and my friends are not calling out every single pallet we use on every map (shack pallet being an exception).
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@Hexling said:
You waste our time we waste yours :)
Or you could soak up your pride and just go next.
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@crogers271 said:
Variations of this idea get proposed pretty regularly. Unfortunately, BHVR just thinks its an impossible fix. I have no idea why as I've never seen them give a reason why this would be a problem.
If people dont want to play then they will not play. This solution sounds good in theory, but people will then just afk after the unhook and leave it until the killer comes back to finish them off (which most killers to be fair will) it just simply cannot be fixed if people do not want to play.
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@sonata93 said:
Is this post satire? “Why no nerfs for survivors”? *MfT has entered the chat.
Healing has been nerfed into the ground and it now takes forever. Why waste time healing when you could be completing gens? Especially in this current gen-kick/regression meta.
I don’t understand killers sometimes. Back when healing was strong with COH, better med kits, etc, they said “healing is far too OP; survivors can heal in a matter of seconds”. Now it’s “survivors aren’t healing enough, how dare they focus on their objective instead of wasting time with nerfed healing”. Do you see the double standard here?
Final point, exhaustion is one of the fairest mechanics in the game. It has a lengthy cooldown and there are many perks/killer-specific add-ons which directly counter it. Reminder that killer always has the advantage, so I fail to see how a short-lived speed boost to help in chase is problematic. Do some killers just want super-easy, short-lived chases? Boring.
When did healing get nerfed?
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@pizzavessel15 said:
think about it. bhvr is adding more and more stuff that just PROMOTES THE SURVIVOR TO GET UNHOOKED INFRONT OF THE KILLER. basekit bt made it so you dont have to worry about the killer moving out of the area before unhooking, and even then the survivor almost always just tries to get infront of the killer with bt. removing hook grabs made it so the survivors can run up and guarantee the unhook. not to mention theres now anti face camp. bhvr is adding things that just promote the survivor unhooking near the killer. that plus alot of killers now have a ridiculous amount of safe guards, gens fly, more and more survivors are becoming toxic etc. these are the reasons tunneling have dramatically increased. killers are doing everything possible to win because survivors are making it feel as bad as possible to loose or the killer youre playing as feels so bad to play.
If someone is unhooking in your face you get a guranteed down on the guy who unhooked, they do not just get it for free.
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@fussy said:
Back in the days I was hardcore tunneler. I did it almost every game, from the first hook, because i cared only about winning. But last year or more i stopped, because:
- It's boring as hell. Every game is the same, doesn't matter who you play as, every game is Groundhog Day. Yes, you won it, but it every match has the same scenario. If I had continued to play like this, I would have burned out and quit this game.
- I started enjoy chases instead of win. I started playing more SWF In those days, what gave me a greater understanding of how absurd repair speed can be. I can't do anything about game's design, then why should I worry about winning? I also became much better at chasing on many killers, which awakened in me an interest in winning chases instead of winning the match.
- It's pointless on killers without chase potential. Oh, so you went against good SWF on Pig, Freddy or GF? Poor boy. Antitunnel perks + second chance perks (4 dh and 4 ds in every lobby make it literally 4 health state on every survivor), comp predrop, friend's back on a way to gates. Gg ez noob killer
Now 80% of my games are just "i see you -> i chase you" style (depends on killer of course, some of them need to be more tactical), which most often end up with 6-9 hooks and 2-4 peoples in exit gates. And at some point i'm okay with it, because i chosed this way by myself. But you know what i hate the most about it?
- Survivors don't respect it at all. Literally whole forum crying about tunneling, but what i see nearly in every 8-9 hooks game? Yeah, you are right, tbaging in the exit gates. Watching as braindead Meg or Lithe brain Kate tbaging me while in a chase she lasts no longer than 15-20 seconds makes me feel so stupid, because i was splitting pressure without any rewards for it and literally present her winning she didn't deserve at all. Especially knowing that if I had tunneled her on 5 gens, the game would have ended immediately for the whole team.
- Tunneling is only consistent way to win this game as a killer. I watch dbd content for 5-6 years and i still didn't see a single win streak, which is not based on tunneling. Current 1600 winstreak on Blight is not about Blight, it's about tunnel. Because he lost his streak several times due to "fair" gameplay against good survivors. Every tournament match is about who will tunnel faster vs who will hold m1 faster. Imagine, best Nurses and Blights NEED to tunnel to have a chance of winning against best survivors with perk and item limitations. It's absurd.
- I still punished with anti-tunnel perks only because survivors can weaponize them against me. In my opinion, we could have strong anti-tunnel perks only when tunneling won't be the only way to win this game as killer. Do i really forced to lose all pressure in match, which i created with fast chases, because someone feel himself so untouchable that tank multiple hits with OTR+DS+DH? And devs about to buff DS again, seriously? So i will be forced to tunnel every game, doesn't matter how much i want it?
I'm at point, where i I'm more confident than ever: killers need reason not to tunnel. And after that we can discuss buffing anti-tunnel. Maybe some Grim Embrace basekit, which will not activate if someone is already dead. Something, i don't know.
Tunnelling one guy out is only viable if you can do it. Hardcore tunnelling one guy means you are literally pressuring 0 other people.
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@MadDormouse said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604753#Comment_3604753
I've been in the hospital for over a year. I even miss having a job. Do you know what that's like? Do you? You clearly don't understand how miserable I am. And this game that makes me happy.
My point still stands. Go get camped by a basement Bubba.
My apologies, I hope it gets better for u.
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@dweetboi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606386#Comment_3606386
I suppose so, could maybe have it charge up for x amount of time you are in chase without getting downed or amount of gen progress you do, unhooks etc.
Yeh something like that would be fine.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606387#Comment_3606387
Wrong. They either somehow pressure their way through before that happens or they don't 3 gen themselves. If a killer forces the 3 gen, the upcoming anti 3 gen solution should fix this. But I honestly don't see why survivors shouldn't be punished for their recklessness. Both sides should think about how they play at least a little.
And be honest, how many times have you had a match as survivor that you still won after 30 minutes in a 3 gen? I have had one of these and only because the killer eventually was done and gave up. In all instances, we lost. Because if you can't break through before that happens, then there is little chance that will change later on. A DBD game should never be dragged out that long. This idea is only a suggestion to force the game to end somehow.
If you aren't one of these special breed chess players, then you probably don't want to play out such a long game anyway. But the killer cannot really commit to a chase (else they'd lose the last gen) and you probably don't want to ######### intentionally either.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606389#Comment_3606389
That is only the case as far as MMR is concerned and who cares about MMR that much? As far the game is concerned, a survivor either lives or dies. There is no in-between. A hatch escape counts as surviving in that sense. There is even a score event for it called "Hatch Escape" and the icon in the after game lobby displays you as alive. So a hatch escape is an escape in all measurements but MMR.
Some 3 gens are so strong, that a killer could choose to hold them at the start, and then abuse this new growing stronger thing.
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@ArchAbhor said:
Here are the facts. Being in a swf grants a certain number of advantages. I'm not going into that now because its been discussed extensively on these forums. Also this isnt a conversation of imbalances between all the killers which is an issue outside of what i want to talk about.
Heres how this effects this game. The pecking order is this. Solo q<killer<swf. That means that solo q suffers because of the advantages that swf hold over killer. If killer would like to chill out and test builds for fun they are shut down because of efficiency of swfs. No room for fun builds. So if the killer wants to be able to win they must bring meta and/or play dirty.
That doesnt mean that killer has a guaranteed win over well-coordinated swfs, but that does guarntee a stomp vs solo q. So both killer and solo q are held hostage to swfs who want to optimally sweat their butts off.
There is no compensation for this. They get assumed free coms and gen and perk coordination. Which compared to a solo q team is an insane difference.
I argue this more for solo q then killer. As killer if I sweat my ass off and bring perks/play dirty I'm usually guaranteed a 2k at min. not including those crazy coordinated team which can result in a loss. As solo q this means that most killers either tunnel me out or tunnel someone else out early on and guarntee that the lack of coordination or perks geared in teams using busted stuff is going to result in the killers wiping the team.
The fix is to add a disadvantage to swf. No this doesnt mean punish people who want to play with their friends. This does mean that there needs to be a acknowledgement that you have an advantage over solo q and are going to accept a penalty to bring you to solo q levels. This level should be the base relationship between the killer role and survivor role.
These should be experimented on to determine what nerfs to swf should make them equivalent to soloq. This means that the results of swf should be tracked compared to solo. Go slow. Make sure its not anything insane.
This should go in the opposite direction as well. If the nerfs in fact bring swf to solo q levels then the tools killer uses to counter well-coordinated swfs should be nerfed as well.
Swf mains are going to complain and argue so they maintain their position to be able to bully killers but this needs to be counteracted with information gained through the difference between solo q and swf.
In conclusion there are extremes to this game that hold the opposite hostage because of their advantage. This instance is Swf holds solo q hostage because of their heavy advantage forces killers to play dirty or run busted build over all teams including teams that are unable to handle it like solo q.
There are other conversations on the opposite end that need to be talked about. How nurse and blight and other busted killer builds make survivors feel like that they need to be in a swf to survive them.
However as of right now swf is top dog and needs to be addressed first.
All I want is the extremes to be brought in so that we all can enjoy the game in spite of the sweaty players. Please be productive if you are adding to the conversation.
SWF will always have an advantage over solo Q. This will always be true no matter what nerfs you decide to put in.
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@Disco said:
I encounter this issue a lot when I play Wesker because of his huge terror radius and it's really frustrating. People rate Wesker as a top tier killer but I honestly do better with lower tier killers like Legion, Wraith and Pig because they are much easier to play and no one pre runs them as hard as Wesker. When I watch my fav streamer play Wesker they never seem to have this issue though and idk why or how.
Just use your power to catch up.
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@SoteloSama said:
Lately it seems that most survivor perks have been getting nerfed. The latest one , MFT. I get it , fine , nerf it , but then you keep UW with its 30sec "cooldown"? Come on. Make it longer? That it only activates after you get a hook? Only 1 person can scream? Doesnt work endgame to slug and find the last survivor? Like this is all simple stuff but nah. Its not OP right , instead lets nerf a perk thatll extend chases by a bit. If you dont agree that DBD favors killers youre obviously the one benefitting. I dont see any fairness when killers can block palettes and windows for long periods of time and survivors only get speed perks to only have them nerfed.
We are literally on track to have nothing but killer nerfs these next coming months according to the road map. Yes some killers individually are getting buffed, but in terms of nerfs survivors are not getting any on this current road map.
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@Xernoton said:
What else should happen? You cannot have the match end in a Schroedinger's loss for both sides. Either the survivors die or they escape. There is no other option.
Ideally, we should try to make this redundant. A match shouldn't go on for 60 minutes, no matter who does what. My suggestion is to modify the anti 3 gen mechanic in a way. If the survivors do end up 3 genning themselves without the killer forcing it, then the killer should eventually grow stronger the longer the match goes. After 30+ minutes they could gain a permanent 15% haste (ridiculously overpowered, just to end the match). If the killer does end up forcing a 3 gen, then the mechanic should solve this issue.
Then that means in a 3 gen situation, the survivors have basically 0 chance of winning.
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@dweetboi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605295#Comment_3605295
The current hatch mechanic already encourages hiding (and slugging). I don't think buffing left behind would do much of anything.
No it would not because again the perk only works if you are the last guy and no perk with that condition will be a good perk. But the perk fundamentally encourages hiding more than hatch already does and buffs to it would further this. Plus if it allowed say plundering a purple key then it would encourage it ten fold since you could just hide all match, wait for the killer to close hatch and then just dip.
I am not saying the perk would be op or anything like that because it basically never will be. But from a design perceptive, perks like it are unhealthy since it encourages a solo Q team mate with it to just hide.
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@dweetboi said:
Addition: When one or more survivor has escaped, the aura reading range on the hatch effect is doubled, going from 32 to 64. (At tier 3)
This would fit the theme of being "left behind" in a match when your teammates leave you.
The only problem is it is a perk which encourages the guy using it to just hide then wait, and if we added the key plundering then that guy could literally just plunder a key, wait for the killer to close the hatch and then escape. Perk is weak and would always be weak because it only does anything when you are the last guy alive, but all it does is encourage hiding.
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@Disco said:
Make a button that killers can press when the gates are open that is like a forfeit and makes all remaining survivors escape the trial so everyone can move onto the next game instead of forcing people to wait 2 minutes.
Just open the gates and stand afk in a corner and do something else if tbagging really offends you that much.