Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Trickster is by far the most effective at short range, but hitting longer range shots is pretty satisfying and more difficult. Would it be a good idea for him to get some sort of a reward for going for these harder shots, such as a bonus to Laceration if the knives travel a certain range? Something like 1.5x-2.0x?
I think it would be a nice touch to his kit, and would spice up his gameplay a little. What do you think?
he had something like that. i believe add-on was called death throes compilation. if i remember how it worked, each hit would gain +25% laceration as long as you did not miss. i think it stacked 6 times up to 250% damage.
i remember trying to make that add-on work but it played just so weird. it might been an interesting grey meme blood-point add-on if it did not fully reset your stacks for a single miss.
an add-on that i wish was more interesting was his trick blade add-on. the bounces are so random that you cannot use them in a consistent way because of how unpredictable they are. trick blade would be more interesting if you could bounce blades and curve them to homing effect onto the survivor. it would take away his slow m/s throwing mode weakness and create new alternative type ranged killer that can curve projects behind walls.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558943#Comment_3558943
Ruin + pentimento is no that good, as soon as ruin goes down, pentimento goes up and the survivors KNOW where that totem is because they cleansed it and all get the notification for it. Penti is really only good with plaything because you can use it to stall so much.
before they nerfed ruin, i used to run undying+ruin+devour hope+hex pentimento. that was really strong build for slowdown at one point. you get consistent -30% repair bonus or 200% passive regression. I think after playing COB/OC/Eruption, I don't really see over-time regressions effects showing up any time soon.
I'd probably use hex:ruin if hex:ruin worked like hex:plaything where every time you hook a survivor, 1 totem is spawned in the map. as long as 1 totem remains standing, all generators on the map regress for 100%. that would make hex:ruin really strong while being healthy non-tunnel incentive. you could run jolt+pain res+hex:ruin+hex:pentimento and gain a lot of gen delay.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558823#Comment_3558823
No... those perks aren't "Mid" they are the epitome of what dbd perks should be, alternative abilities you get after completing a certain action, alternatively, if the effect is akin to a basekit buff it should be relatively minor, but worth the slot to bring.
Problem is, survivors only consider perks to be "good" if they are beyond busted.
Let's go over some examples of fundamentally healthy and good perks -
Autodidact
Background Player
Bond
Chemical trap
Decisive strike
empathy
Kindred
Smash Hit
Flashbang
wiretap
etc.
These perks follow the proper balance philosophy of alt abilities or minor basekit buffs that are still worth using.
Now examples of perks that are fundamentally unhealthy but considered "good" by survivors -
MFT
Buckle up
Hope
Resi
Adren
WOO
etc.
Do you notice the pattern here? Survivors only consider perks to be "good" when they essentially turn dbd into easy mode.
Run faster, vault faster and do everything else also faster, Pick your teammate up and be invincible for 10 seconds, have ESP on every single tile so you can artificially path better, get a free healthstate after your team pops all the gens , etc etc... and they all come at the requirement of either *Load into the match* or *be inevitably hit*.
survivor consider perk good when they produce consistent desired game-winning effect. MFT is a consistent game-winning effect. the perk extends chase time if the player is good at looping. resilience+deja vu is another game-winning effect. it increases repair speed by 15%. it is not 100% consistent due to resilience requiring being injured but being injured is relatively common in current dbd. Hope and Adrenaline are also game-winning effects that trigger in end game. assuming you win, it is consistent.
the other perks that you named are well... the opposite. they're inconsistent effect that are not as desired and coincidentally not game-winning. what you consider easy mode for survivor is what survivor consider regular mode. It is like survivor saying that you should play trapper as chasing killer and not play blight because blight is easy mode.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559083#Comment_3559083
i agree. wesker is a fun killer to face untill the hindred kicks in. then he is not so fun anymore
sounds very classic. survivor not in control of the chase, not fun anymore.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558823#Comment_3558823
Reassurance is commonly agreed on as being an S tier perk. Not so much now that anti facecamp will be in the game, but it had a year to make it to 25% usage rate. Why didn't it?
mid-tier perk. it is not very good.
- reassurance relies on killer to play in a specific way otherwise it is empty perk. Situational
- It has very short range and it has associated time cost to use it. Killer that are dangerous near hook make the perk risky to use.
- gen-speed perk are stronger counter to camping. The alternative perks are better.
those are my guesses to why the perk is not popular. if there was a popular anti-camping perk, it would likely be kinship except that perk has major restrictions that make not very good because it requires coordination to use. if kinship had no range restrictions and immediately activated after being hooked, maybe you would see that as S-tier 25% pick-rate anti-camping perk. At the same time, I am not sure as it has never really been tested.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558728#Comment_3558728
Reassurance is a very strong perk. Troubleshooter is a strong chase perk. Dramaturgy is a strong AND fun perk. Fogwise is a strong info perk. Chemical Trap is a strong perk to deny a pallet break (especially good on god fillers). You don't see any of these perks skyrocket to the top of the usage rate. People tend to take the path of least resistance to win (which is why the genkick meta quickly became popular after it was discovered, and Eruption also bounced to ~25% usage rate almost overnight). Old Eruption was problematic, and MFT is problematic. Old Eruption deserved to be gutted, and MFT equally deserves it.
that is what Pulsar is talking about. all the perks you named are what Pulsar described in his post which are perks that are mid, meme or straight bad. You don't see any of those perks because.... they're mid. that is why your complaining about MFT because it is strong perk that making you lose and you find that problematic.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558643#Comment_3558643
Would you be so kind and name the killers you find from that list unfun and why you feel that way?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558691#Comment_3558691
Thats the point of this thread. A killer who is only fun for 1 side, is not something the devs should strive. Artist is a prime example for that: Fun to play, absolutly no fun playing against.
something in common with all those killer you named except for wraith is all killer being skill-shot based with mobility. Billy is skill-shot rush. Blight has skill-shot m1, same for Oni. Wesker is skill-shot dash. the problem with just adding more skill-shot dash type killers is that you end up with killer roaster that all looks and plays the same. there is only so much in skill-shot you can put before it is all the same thing.
that is why dev tend to make different killers with different goals and different gameplay. this is so that there is variety in how every killer plays. there is always some expected redundancy but their goal is to keep each killer fresh. I think what I want to see is more killer with instant down base-kit.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558520#Comment_3558520
If you put every boon Perk in the game into one build in this day and age you're quite frankly stabbing yourself in the foot, none of them are really that mindblowing or even good, combining them with this Perk wouldn't really force the Killer to snuff the Totem, you could just ignore it to be honest.
why i am getting punished for kicking boons? killers already lose time kicking boon because they're 1 player. this is not like hex:haunted grounds. this is like hex:pentimento with infinite uses. granted your effect is not strong but something like "increases generator speed for 40 seconds" would be very annoying to play against.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558650#Comment_3558650
If you predrop every pallet against a Wesker, then you kill your whole team. There are pallets where he will just vault after you and get the hit and others where he can perform a rebound tech or hug tech and hit you anyway.
Watch some of this guy's other videos. You won't get to play this flashy every time but Wesker's power works around pretty much every loop in the game, if you play it right. And he will either force you to drop the pallet much quicker or hit you.
oh yes, the legendary 10% faster pallet breaking is going to make you run out of pallets. I wonder why maps keep reducing pallet resources like that upcoming shattered square map. wesker's power works depending how survivor approaches the loop and how they greed it. if you greed pallets correctly as survivor, you can loop wesker for very long time. I would know because I tend get hit by his bounds eventually then get hit by that over-time infection build up. weaker infection would hurt wesker too much vs better loopers. he needs better 1vs1 if infection is less strong.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558628#Comment_3558628
A good Wesker will end their chases far more quickly than you think. Being solid at gens will not be enough to win against that. You also need to delay him in chase. If you can delay him long enough, then you deserve to win. But a good Wesker will keep his chases extremely short.
https://youtu.be/LlWyPBccitQ?si=YnXciL36xHJ_GMl2
Are you going to tell me that these kinds of players need to tunnel you and get you hindered? I think they'd take that as an insult. Do not underestimate what a good Wesker is capable of.
i am aware of his sliding tech's but tech just gets countered by pre-dropping pallets. sometimes it is possible greed pallets depending on distancing despite techs that make a little bit skill expression. notice every single of play is the survivor over-greeding or not making any attempt to side-step bounds. he gets countered in lame ways and he outplays the tactic in a less fun way for survivor.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558531#Comment_3558531
Then you haven't played against very good Weskers. In which case, they deserved to lose. Wesker is a strong enough killer to not be relying on tunneling.
Unfortunately, his high pick rate suggests, that many people who play him aren't all that good, since it implies that many Wesker players don't put in a lot of effort into learning him but just play him occasionally. But they do know that tunneling allows them to get wins, they otherwise would not get. It's a cheap way to make up for missing skill.
A good Wesker player will mostly use the infection as a side objective for survivors to slow them down because they don't need it to end their chases quickly. If played correctly Wesker can get you even in the strongest loops.
so whenever my team is solid at gens, Wesker deserves to lose? that does not make much sense. in my opinion, tunneling is one of wesker's greatest strengths. player tunneling with him are playing him towards his strengths.
A good Wesker player will mostly use the infection as a side objective for survivors to slow them down because they don't need it to end their chases quickly. If played correctly Wesker can get you even in the strongest loops.
side objective? you mean spray that you hold since start of the match and take 5 second to disable? amazing game delay. wesker gets throws when survivor makes mistakes. infection is main threat of current wesker. his bounds are not that hard to outplay at loops and he is an easier blight to loop when your not infected.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558534#Comment_3558534
I think it's suppose to be a "mind game" perk where you vault back and forth without the Killer noticing if they don't have line of sight but that's such a niche application for a perk that it might as well not exist...
medium vaults take 0.9 seconds. vaulting two times takes 1.8 seconds. that is so slow that every decent killer will react to the vaults. furthermore, vaulting twice just blocks the window faster.
@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558534#Comment_3558534
I think if it worked with lockers, it would allow for so much mindgames and trickery with Head On or other Perks.
maybe but going into lockers silently should work for that Lucky Star perk which I still do not understand the point of that perk either.
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lower duration parental guidance for vaulting. a lot of those juking type perks could be better. deception is another perk that could be buffed similarly.
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i do not understand design point of this perk. quick & quiet but worse. maybe give it 25% vault speed bonus for the duration of the perk.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558486#Comment_3558486
So, what? If Wesker doesn't tunnel, he is a weak killer? Because that is pretty much what you imply. The infection could still progress like normal until you get hooked. That way, you would only feel a difference, if you tunnel.
There wasn't any suggestion to nerf the hindered effect. Only to make it stop progressing after the survivor is unhooked until they do a conspicuous action. This would not affect you in any way as long as you don't tunnel.
Also, Wesker is definitely not relying on the Hindered effect as much as you make it out. His chase power is pretty damn lethal in the right hands. If you have to rely on the infection to catch survivors, then that means that you aren't particularly good with Wesker. Don't believe me? Go on YouTube and search for some Wesker mains. They'll Show you what this killer is capable of.
when I play survivor, I do not feel threatened in looping wesker in the chase. wesker only feels threatening to play if the player tunnels with him. that is just my experienced from playing survivor. most often then not as survivor, I usually get put into dying state because of his infection. your indirectly removing his active infection threat with that change. I just feel like he is a bit of push-over in chase from survivor point of view.
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@UndeddJester said:
Love Pig, but she is a bit of a noob stomper.
Her Reverse Bear Traps are her unique trait, and she has arguably the best passive slowdown in the game...
The power of her RBTs makes her pretty potent at low levels, and certain builds/add-ons can even cause problems for experienced players if the Pig wants to be really nasty. This is why she has a high kill rate overall compared to other killers.
Ofc this also means at higher levels she struggles a lot more. Her weak chase/lack of potency from stealth means that she can't get the power of her RBTs going.
If we buff her chase, their is a strong risk her snowball and oppressive play becomes even nastier, especially at lower levels. If we buff her chase more, we may want to tone down her RBT a tad to compensate. E.g.
- Buff her crouch speed and ambush charge.
- Save progress on jigsaw traps instead of resetting.
Simetging like that... However I have to ask my fellow Pig mains, would we be willing to sacrifice a little RBT pressure for more chase pressure?
P.S. All guilt of a scream build/tampered timer/gears head pop is alleviated on MFT users.
i wish they buffed gameafoot so pwyf pig is a bit less cumbersome to play with scream build. I feel like pig is pretty good but i sense that people dislike how her kit executes strength. your topic that you are talking about is very taboo in dbd.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558381#Comment_3558381
What's wrong with that?
it removes any threat from wesker's infection. against stronger looper that make an effort to outplay his bounds, he relies on infection to be a threat in the 1vs1. wesker's power virulent bounds scales really badly with survivor's looping skill. I think if his pallet vaulting power did not kick him out of virulent bounds, increased movement speed of 2nd bound from like 3.0(?) to 3.6 and -0.5 cast time on charging bounds, then i could see weakening hindered to like 3% to be less of component to his kit. at same time, the infection is kinda lore heavy because... well the whole idea is that wesker chases survivors that are infected because they're weaker. that is running theme idea behind nemesis and wesker. a weaker infection makes wesker a bit less... cannon for sake of balance.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Infection progression shouldn't resume until a Survivor performs a Conspicuous Action.
haha no.
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-action speed for gens become too strong if it stacked beyond 25%. if I were to rework dying light to be somewhat fair perk, I would rework to grant -15% repair bonus to all survivors for 2 minutes that is paused when a survivor is on the hook. this would make the perk a slightly different version of corrupt intervention.
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i was under impression that asia just uses self-care with med-kits. i didn't think they were actually healing for 45 seconds....
Doesn't killer just win for free by equip sloppy butcher in asia? that must be very easy to 4k in asia playing killer.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557539#Comment_3557539
The problem comes from when you have a map like midwich where theres no hooks in say a hallway you downed a survivor in. So boil over makes said hook impossible. As well as the map just not having a hook on the second floor for some reason. Ormond has this problem as well. Most hooks are off the drop outside. Well so you drop. Giving boil over its boost with no other real option. Badham its the opposite if theres no basement in the school you gotta haul A to get a survivor upstairs. Normally its not bad like you said. Its just annoying. Its map design but a lot of maps at least have one area like that. Especially with sabos or perks.
boil over is designed to be slugged. you bleed people out when boil over is effective. is slugging viable? Not really, but it is all you can do against it. it is particular annoying in the middle of the match when all 4 survivor are alive because 1 player is immortal and if there is a gen, the player get to gens for free and as long they are healthy, the speed boost + exhaust perk allows survivor that is using boil over to position themselves in that particular unhookable spot.
when it is last person alive, it is tedious gameplay because the player is stalling the match for no reason and wasting time. that is why it would be good if there was end-game collapse timer that occurs that begins when all survivor are on the floor. if 30 seconds elapses, the entity should mori the survivor. they did this once in the slugging PTB but it was bad because they made it instant while simultaneously making slugging completely useless with unlimited unbreakable. they were on right track with that ptb but deleting strategy from killer was not a good way to go.
perk is not a problem but the way they balance slugging is not fun the killer. the killer gameplay for slugging is almost completely dominate barring survivors playing ultra bad at looping and it is tedious for killer to counter if survivor forces slugging in an advantage way for them. boil over is exactly that. forcing slugging in advantageous way to delay death as survivor.
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@Steakdabait said:
Well there's no denying how uninteractive both nem and xeno can be, there's (sadly) worse examples like knight, artist, trap killers, dredge, and skull merch. These killers can near completely remove a survivors ability to express skill in the 1v1 by literally just pressing m2 in a tile and make it unusable. There's a lot of killers that minimize the impact of a survivors skill in a 1v1 in the way that nem and xeno do but those killers more or less outright remove the sole reason a lot of players play survivor by their mere existence.
While in chase with nem and xeno if they get in range with their power, you already have lost. Play for distance and not to maximize the value you get out of the tile is the simplest tip i can give. I will 100% agree that they encourage (or force in xenos case) rather boring gameplay but there is pretty clear counterplay.
well written post. something very early in my time playing dbd survivor is that I realized how non-interactive a lot of killer cast is when played optimally. even when killer look like they're under-powered which large portion of them are not very strong at winning, they exhibit winning by existence if their power is effective. i think people just realizing it for what i figured out 3 years ago which was around release legion time. survivors dislike losing by sheer existence. OP post is complaining because he believes that nemesis and xeno are winning by existence.
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adriana is useless killer but nothing changed about 3 gens. 3 gens are still in the game, they cannot be exploited as hard because killer's default kick regression is crap.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557469#Comment_3557469
Watch Korean streams on twitch.
@ Stats:
I'm a bit surprised Hope hasn't made it into the top 10 with the advent of MFT. MFT is definitely a problematic perk against M1 killers, but the combo with Hope is just completely busted.
I think more people favored adrenaline since instant healing is enough to win end game or at least skewed so hard that you win almost immediately. Hope is over-time benefit perk. end games are not drawn long enough in a lot of cases for survivor to use Hope. The majority of end games are just take bodyblock protection hit at the hook, unhook other player during weapon wipe cooldown and run through exit gate. Hope does not help with this. Adrenaline does.
The list only goes to top 10 perks. Nightlight has Hope at #14 so if you extend list to top #15 perks then you might find Hope.
@Coffeecrashing said:
1) Dead Hard is the best exhaustion perk to combo with Made For This.
2) Dead Hard is also good for people that want to do Buckle Up + For The People combo, because they lose a health state when they For The People someone else.
3) It's also good for the "stay injured" theme that a lot of survivors like doing, where they have perks like resilience, and priority generators over being healed.
4) It's also good because people aren't expecting it all the time anymore, and so many killers will just try to immediately attack when they can, so the first dead hard is usually a free health state because of that.
5) We still have a lot of survivors that can Dead Hard on reaction to a killer lunge. Neither of the Dead Hard changes actually addressed that problem.
FTP+buckle up is more of 4 man swf meta aka bodyblocking meta. soloq has too little cohesion to use those perks and favor's MFT+Deja vu+resilience. it is more gen-rush focused then anything else. you can see this evidently in the stats. if survivor is not using gen-rush perks, they are using info perks which is why you see Window of opportunity and Kindred. DH is still strong perk when it activates but it does not have as much impact as before because you cannot spam it. of course, just because you cannot spam it does not mean that tanking an extra hit cannot change outcome of the game. I like to think of current dead hard as mid-game adrenaline. a mid-game type perk that might lose you the game vs a strong looper. it is similar to deliverance where deliverance at wrong time can change games.
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@xEa said:
Nightlight is a good indicator, but in terms of numbers still way off as we can see:
For example:
WoO: 28% vs 33%
Mft: 21% vs 25%
Adre: 25,5% vs 20%
it is normal that number are different because nightlight in statistical analysis is called sample. BVHR statistic in statistical analysis is called a census. census is true result. samples are not correct because there is not enough information. for the most part, nightlight will provide correct information but it may not be exact numbers.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557207#Comment_3557207
yes you kind of rephrased the same opinion i had i think. so im gonna ask you abotu something.
What in your opinion is the problem here ? Soloq ? is sloppy butcher even a problem to begin with or associating it with soloq is the issue ?
associated soloq issues. you are correct in sloppy butcher being soloq stomper. overly effective vs soloq, not effective enough vs strong teams(swf). killer would need like another perk that add +20% -healing in addition to mangled for swf to have hard-time healing.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557132#Comment_3557132
You are missing the point. there is a better counter to sloppy than your sacrificing 2 perks idea. All i need is a SWF or friends i can communicate with earlier and 1 boon COH.
My friends would rush the boon area and we heal faster than anything else in the game.
We are discussing the disparity this creates specifically in soloq. which is what i play mostly and im sure many people share this gameplay style. Soloq temmates tend to be selfish and bring selfish perks ( Left behind is quite common would you believe it sometimes, plus haste perks adrenaline...ect)
Your suggestion is entirely dependent on the random team i will get in soloq. hoping they would bring well make it and botany to help me not get tunneled while injured if i dont bring medkit syringe ....
i hope you understand what i am " complaining about " .
healing is all about timing. if you heal at good timing and good positioning than slower healing is not that impressive because survivor has a major surplus in action speed if they optimize their action speed and looping tactics.
soloq lacks timing because inherently, it is super messy since nobody knows where all survivors are so pathing to get healed is longer and then you have sloppy butcher that makes interaction also take longer. pair that with teammates that sometimes completely fail chase at awful times and you get games where you lose purely off altruistic actions. swf can much better play macro game by healing at the correct times. soloq heals at risky times and tends crumble on healing pressure very easily.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556711#Comment_3556711
It's to help the player being facecamped, not to help the team get free info and save time
But why can't it do both?
The disparity between solo queue and SWF is one of the biggest and longest standing problems with the game IMO. Showing the progress on the HUD wouldn't resolve it, but it would help.
they weaken that camping mechanic that it might not work properly for basement. well at least they might adjust it in the future if it proves to be ineffective.
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i wonder how good mint rag hag is going to be.
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@WilliamSN said:
Yeah no, furtive chase would only be "good" if they flipped its effect around.
A shorter TR while in chase is pretty much worthless.
A 32m tr killer will go down to 12m in chase at full stacks, 12 meters is enough distance for a survivor to still be aware the killer is in the tile with him.
It gets a little better when it comes to 24m TRs but the survivor will still pre-run because the effects only trigger when the chase is active.
12 meters is where TR begins, so by the time survivor hear first heartbeat, your would already be next to them. I can react to 16 meter TR but only if i am near a window or pallet like shack. at 12 meters, your not reacting to the killer behind a wall. I agree that the perk would be very good if they switched it but they did not. new version is still better then what live version is but it is not same perk.
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i missed the october and september. for some reason, i thought those were same updates. thank you @Rizzo
dev reverted 33% of her nerfs. the 3 major nerf that make her useless were following
1) added cooldown for placing drones and recalling them. they reverted recalling. you need run a yellow add-on to reduce cooldown of placing drones.
2) survivor can disable drones and it takes 45 second for the drones to turn back on. this makes her a pointless trapping killer. in previous iteration, survivor that disabled drone received claw trap. this is major reason why skull merchant is bad. like worst then trapper or any killer really.
3) the 3rd major change is that drones no longer go through floors and have reduced detection from 12->8(now 10 meters). this is slightly better but it is still worse. it might be equal since you have 6 drones so you cover similar surface area but you have to walk more to cover same area on double story maps. she also received additional negative changes to lock-on which requires her to lock-on 4 times onto a survivor. they improved rotation speed reverting some of lock-on negative changes but issue is that it takes too long to get 4 lock-on. survivor still has 3 second immunity towards scanning and survivor can still chain-tiles avoiding the drone altogether.
due to all these problems, i do not see skull merchant being a relevant chase killer. she is still 3 gen focused.
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the biggest buff is the removal of cooldown for recalling drones. she can 3 gen a little better now but it is nothing even close to what it was. as a result, there is no reason to play her and she went from Z-tier to F-tier. people won't play her because there is just better killer to 3 gen with but at least she is better at 3 gens compare to ptb.
furtive chase got design change. that perk was designed to make it so that every time you hook obsession, you become stealthier progressively as trial progressed but it had drawback that it only works inside chase. the perk is far superior now in term of power-level but has lower max potencial. it is better but less interesting.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556625#Comment_3556625
It's funny her old version had better anti-chase.
Now her power is honestly doing nothing.
Injuring survivors (first hit) is really not hard to do. The real challange starts for second hit (down) and her power is doing to get down.
One of the worst killers ever they did.
what changes? i don't see any patch log or any dev update.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555714#Comment_3555714
It's not nerf.
It's fix for abusing.
Do you remember when they reworked her irri add-on and all pigs were abusing this add-on with blocking one box for guaranteed kill or kills.
This should not exist. Fix the abusing.
But Pig should be buffed, i am totally supporting that.
UW+Face the darkness pig is a buff to pig jigsaw. otz did say that pig is C-tier killer. perhaps you do not agree for how pig should be strong. I find it funny because it is like real jigsaw. 1 down/reverse bear trap = 1 kill. I suspect that your disagreeing for how pig's mori should work because you think it is interactive/low counter-play.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555422#Comment_3555422
Pig herself has some issues right now. Especially some Pigs are abusing Ultimate Weapon + Face the Darkness combo to make traps guaranteed kills.
I think i agree with Otz here. Make screams not reset the searching box, make it lose some progress.
abusing? the pig jigsaw always worked like this. my impression on this list is a large list of perks that player dislike losing towards. i do not agree with most the perks but i do agree that a lot of those perks represent lingering issues.
Buckle up is slugging problem with killer. Boil over and power struggle would show up way higher on list if they had higher numbers. the issue is that slugging is survivor sided mechanic where the killer low probability to bleed people out because it is only timer based. you get way too many lives towards slugging right now. putting survivors into dying state and keeping survivors in dying state should be rewarding but it is not. I said once an idea that would improve this that when a survivor goes from dying state to healthy state either by healing or perks that pick them up, they lose 10-15% of max bleed out regression bleed out bar. this would puts some limits on that FTP+Buckle up problem because killer needs counter-play towards that. second chances are part of the game but slugging too many second chances.
UB, Knock out and Hex:Third seal is another issue in the game which is textbook swf vs soloq problems. soloq relies on aura perks to make smart plays due to lack of voice com. many people play the game casually so I don't think adding voice is good and I think dbd is fine without voice. it just needs some teammate aura for survivor to do their basic teamwork actions. Blindness disables these aura actions and it is not a good interaction. it is like starting a match of soccer where you start the match as 1-0 for you. a way to keep Blindness relevant as status effect is to just make it only work on disabling killer's aura perks. The only aspect is that dev are scared to implement perks like Wiretap because people complain about the whole wallhacks removing mindgames. the player then feel the need to run blindness out of necessity. the second part of the problem is strange problem. it is little bit like Lightborn and Flashlights.
stbfl+rapid brutaltiy are perks to turn killer into baby bubba's and huntresses. I think issue that people are talking about is tunneling more so then the perks. survivors dislike the killer defending hooks and they dislike part of the game design of killer of killer going after 1 person till they die. I don't think there is any clear answer this problem because the game by nature is designed to be survival game. you could try to make it a team-survivor game like devour hope where when killer get 5 hooks, you get instant mori'd. the hooks and slugging are interesting takes on team survival vs solo survival. it is just both of these mechanics are not fully expressed in the game and it is an interesting question if there should be multiple lose conditions for survivor. 3 gens is another loss condition... but 60 minute games are not exactly fun.
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something that I have known for long time. trapping killer are least fun archetype for survivor to face if they are effective.
@GannTM said:
At least Trapper needs to be strategic and gives a different immersion to survivors.
At least Hag needs to be strategic and has some counterplay.
At least Artist and Knight have different elements in their kit that can make them potentially interesting. Even in anti-loop, Artist still needs to aim something.
Skull Merchant is just “press M2 and survivor leaves” and “don’t go to area.” Oh boy what fun is that! Please just scrap her entire kit, nothing about her is interesting.
skull merchant's trap has least reward. with hag, when you trigger trap, it is instant tp. with trapper, when you get hit by a trap in the middle of a chase, it is direct instant down. for skull merchant, there is no guaranteed that anything happens. all you get is slightly more difficult chase. she used to have pallet break on slide but that is gone.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554552#Comment_3554552
So what about it? Even if game afoot changes obsession with every hit, you still will need two hit against healthy. Sure you can mori right from the spot then. Makes the end game more spicy, imo. Also, mori someone with rancor usually means letting the other survivors escape, except when you also have NWO/Remember me. But then we are talking about an actual end game build, that is supposed to be strong in end game, with the drawback of not doing much before end game. Can't really see an issue with that.
I would really like game afoot to switch obsession with every hit, that would make the effect reliable. As it is now, it's totally unpredictable whether it will trigger or not in mid / end game, bc you just have no feedback how much you chased the individual survivors.
I share exact same problem as you. I can relate to your post. the perk fun to use when it triggers but it is too unpredictable to gain value as you say. I just wish gameafoot gave killer a bit more flexible gameplay in the trial. all I can say is folded hands emote that the perk improves one day.
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@Akumakaji said:
It's called hangman's trick, how about it gave a sabotaging attempt a surprise hard skill check? I know that sabotaging is already really hard to pull off and that it's timer is really tedious (there were quite some sabo tome challenges of late, so I know), but this could be a nice way to throw a survivor off. The first time I jump on an Overcharged gen I nearly always are knocked out cold by the surprise skill check, later I am prepared, but still occasionally fumble.
Saboing isn't exactly a regular problem, but we actually have no dedicates perk to deal with it. STBFL sorta shuts it's down, but more by accident, not as a main feature. Just increasing the sabo time would be bonkers, since the timing is already very tight, so a hard skill check seems to be the best.
Saboing isn't exactly a regular problem, but we actually have no dedicates perk to deal with it.
iron grasp and agitation? most dbd matches contain zero sabotage. you could make it that starting a sabo action makes you lose 1 health-state. perk has little purpose. I thought about making the perk begin regression on all generators on the map when you hook someone. survivors that are on a gen produce a loud notification for the killer. the idea is that you can use it with surveillance to see bunch of white gens.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554973#Comment_3554973
Bare minimum, reworked Skull Merchant gets more consistent Haste from chasing survivors into drones. Her kit needs buffs, because you're right, the drones don't detect survivors consistently enough for claw traps to be something you can reliably use, but the bones of what would be a perfectly fine power are there right now.
Even if she is just strictly weaker though, that doesn't really change my overall point about killer reworks not being primarily just to address issues on the survivor side. She just becomes something of an exception, and not for lack of trying.
Bare minimum, reworked Skull Merchant gets more consistent Haste from chasing survivors into drones.
that is wrong. you get more speed with current skull merchant because survivors staying the lock-on zone grant same benefits as those with a claw trap. in rework version, you have to complete 3 lock-on stacks to do same as current version that needs 0 lock-on stacks.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5A14VADPO1G7/image.png
This addon is another one that doesn't really have a practical use case that I can see.
If you hit a Survivor, and then reload, you're left with just under 5 seconds of Undetectable, which is next to nothing.
I think it should be buffed to around 25 seconds. That, or give it it's old effect back, it might be kind of nice with the increased Terror Radius that Slinger has now.
that add-on is remnant of old slinger. they weaken his tr from 24 to 32 but gave him an add-on with terrible values. it is like demo portal stealth. 5 second duration.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554654#Comment_3554654
Again, Doctor was before my time, but everything I've seen regarding that rework indicates he was largely reworked because he was clunky and awkward to play. Certainly, even if that wasn't the intention, fixing that was undeniably the result of him being reworked.
For Sadako, it was a combination. Her Condemned build before was obnoxious for survivors, but at the same time, killer player feedback was that she wasn't strong enough at doing anything else. That was the reason for her rework, even if you personally think it didn't help enough.
Skull Merchant is having her chase increased, there's no denying that. She actually can go for her chase playstyle without expensive purple addons on the PTB, and with some improvements that she may or may not get, will be fine overall. She won't be strong, but she'll be a lot better than she was. I don't personally like the rework, but it's clear what the reasoning behind it was and it's clear that she will be at least strictly better in terms of strength afterwards.
I find your last list here interesting. Pig's been left to rot? She's been buffed almost as many times in a row at this point as the string of nerfs that prompted the meme, she absolutely is not languishing. Pig's actually kinda good these days. Trapper also is getting changes in this PTB/update, so he's clearly not being left to rot either- and the devs have an actual stated reason for not giving him a full rework, if that's what you're after specifically.
For the rest of those killers, I think it's probably safer to assume they haven't been changed because they can't change every killer at once (or only ever focus on improving killers, for that matter) and they're just kinda low priority. Freddy is weak and boring but let's face it, he's not exactly popular. Hillbilly suffers from new map design, sure, but they are addressing that and people still like him, both to play and to face. Clown may be on the weaker side, but a killer that's just only decent is pretty unambiguously low priority for changes compared to something like Skull Merchant.
You're kinda missing the forest for the trees when you say "because they aren't bothering survivors". For one, survivors are players too, so their feedback and experience does matter, but more importantly... think about what "bothering survivors" means in this context. In this context, it means games that stretch out for an hour because Skull Merchant is (was, thankfully) too good at 3-genning. Is that not a complaint that warrants swift adjustment? Is it not unambiguously more important than a handful of killers that are unproblematic but kind of weak? There's a point at which something "bothering" survivors does actually need to be fixed, and quickly. It would be the same if there were something that broken "bothering" killer players too.
how can skull merchant go for a chasing play-style when entire play-style revolves around survivors running into drones that do not detect them? disregarding the rework, the current version of skull merchant is not getting any claw traps currently through regular play. the new one will be even worse because series amount of negative changes put into her kit which is long list of them. the purple add-on's allowed her to gain some of claw trap effects without relying on survivor on the survivor. now that they have irrelevant effects, her chase is worse then prior to the change.
@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554802#Comment_3554802
I’m sure they will buff her down the road, just like Freddy and Myers.
There’s no conspiracy, it’s business. Survivors make up many more players, so they have to be kept happy. If they run into strats that bother them, they may not buy cosmetics. That said, Killer’s experience needs focus too. If things keep going how they are (Survivor queues are already long), there will not be many Killers left. The anti-camping mechanic is going full steam ahead and I have very little doubt more will be done to prevent tunneling.
The ones that remain will be those who don’t put up much of a fight and accept losing from the get go. You ever play against multiple friendly Killers? Gets boring real fast.
It is a delicate balance and I feel like BHVR is doing a dreadful job.
The ones that remain will be those who don’t put up much of a fight and accept losing from the get go. You ever play against multiple friendly Killers? Gets boring real fast.
bvhr always keep few killers strong. it is just that the people that play killer face a lot of repetition because they have to enjoy playing the killer that BVHR keeps strong. it creates a problem where you have lack of reason to choose other killers because the power-level difference is too high.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554828#Comment_3554828
The vault “bug” being “fixed” giving Survivors extra distance was a major hit to his viability as well.
i would not say so. what I will say is that bubba's ability to mindgames windows is almost there, but I would estimate that he is around 8%-10% too slow with his chainsaw to truly mindgame windows. it is possible to react to his chainsaw around corners. I still hit people that vault windows by making guesses but it is entirely based off their inexperience. at 10% beast mark, it would be like killer skewed instead of survivor skewed. The other issue is that bubba's chainsaw cooldown is really high so mindgame windows has large cooldown. It is similar to Spirit's phase-walk. to mitigate cooldown, bamboozle somewhat helps but bubba would not need that perk if his chainsaw kept 2/3 charges if he hits no one.
you are correct that killer reworks are mostly driven by survivor's amusement. that is because there is generally more feedback towards survivor playing vs killer than killer playing vs survivor. it is 4:1 so you get 4x as much feedback on survivor.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
The Antidote is an underutilized tool in Clown's kit, and I think that's partly due to the somewhat long activation time. I think buffing it from 2.5 to 2.0 seconds would make it easier to use without being able to throw it at your feet for an instant speed boost.
What do you think?
sounds like an old request that since the introduction of that mechanic. The whole mechanic behind the two bottles was centered around timing both speed boosts with within a tiny window to get a hit. the bottles have LOS restrictions, limited bottle count paired with a reload and require advance movement foresight to be used. does it really need a activation time drawback on top of the current limitations?
i rather not talk about clown to avoid more pinky finger changes...
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@Gandor said:
No. I don't think it would be OP. But I think it would synergize with PWYF a little bit too much.
The perk could use a small buff, but I would actually rather go for 2nd effect instead - that way it does not monopolize the market of "changing obsession" perks (making Nemesis obsolete)
nemesis can trigger on healthy survivors. gameafoot requires a hit so it only works on 2nd part of the chase while other perk has potencial to work on first part of chase.
@caipt said:
I think it'd be fine... if they removed rancour/game afoot synergy. Right now to get value from that combo you need to not start a chase all game. If it triggered on basic attacks, you could play the whole game with both oerks helping out and have an essential uncleansable noed with a mori regardless of hooks.
given that big portion of the games are adrenaline and MFT+hope, Rancor helps killer in late game which is much appreciated with survivor perks strength of survivor end game. rancor is not effective too much by gameafoot drawbacks inconsistency mainly because you are often chasing the obsession in the end game and the mori has high enough impact that first mori into second mori is already strong enough that you do not need multiple obsession swaps for that synergy to be effective.
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@Gandor said:
No. I don't think it would be OP. But I think it would synergize with PWYF a little bit too much.
The perk could use a small buff, but I would actually rather go for 2nd effect instead - that way it does not monopolize the market of "changing obsession" perks (making Nemesis obsolete)
2nd effect cannot trigger if first effect is not consistent.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554010#Comment_3554010
Eruption's problem was it hurted solo survivors while SWFs played around.
SWF survivor: I am about to down, leave the gens.
Little regression on all kicked gens but nobody affected by Incapacitated Effect.
Now how you would do that with solo survivors? Killer would get you down and now all survivors can not do anything for 25 seconds.
This was ridicilous and most boring anti-gen perk ever.
Sure it was rewarding killer for getting down but it affected one side unfairly more.
that sounds like every single killer perk vs weak teams. right now pop feels useless on gens below 30% and eruption feels useless on any above 80% gens. the result is that you need pop+eruption so that kicking a gen feels like your damaging a generator. I dislike gen-kick perks for killer because killer gameplay become like a flowchart.
Another aspect is that it fails to slow the game down because the majority of killer have to walk gens so as long one survivor is on a gen, your not really slowing down the game in a meaningful way. just trade progression 1 gen for another gen. the vast majority killers have too poor chase and too poor map traversal to gain value out of the gen-kick perks to go positive on time, so their own real value from these perks is 3 gens.
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@huxenjoyer92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554323#Comment_3554323
I've played more killer than survivor in my time of being on DBD, I can say with some confidence that if you're willing to put in the work to learn another killer and test their limits, you'll find that not all of the killers are bad (except for Pig, needs a nerf). I also don't take the game super competitively.
Current SM is a nightmare to deal with in uncoordinated lobbies and I don't feel like playing like I'm in Eternal 24/7 vsing a SM, when I do play survivor.
Current SM is a nightmare to deal with in uncoordinated lobbies and I don't feel like playing like I'm in Eternal 24/7 vsing a SM, when I do play survivor.
your post is just sentiment that she's dead killer with no redeeming qualities. your glad she is deleted from the game.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554106#Comment_3554106
Trickster slows down to use his power, but unlike Huntress is actually terrible at hitting at increased ranges. When he's throwing knives, the Survivor is gaining distance. MFT increases that distance and makes subsequent knives harder to land, potentially allowing that Survivor to reach a LoS-blocker and avoid a laceration altogether.
Say the Survivor is in a good spot to hit with knives. You use your power, slow down, hit them a few times. MFT gets them out of your effective range quicker and increases the time it takes you to get back into that effective range once you stop using your power. You either have to expend ammo on increasingly riskier shots to secure a damage state you might have been otherwise able to get relatively easily or you drop your power earlier and get less hits in order to stay at a competitive distance and hope they don't reach cover. He's significantly affected by MFT even outside of loops, unless the Survivor is just holding W and not attempting to dodge to some degree, that is.
The vast majority of chases do involve loops, so it wouldn't even matter if he was fine outside of them, because he's so heavily shut down at a lot of those said same loops.
that is a major trickster problem. that is why his throw mode should be like 105% with increasing movement speed the more he throws up to 110%. trickster would have much smoother throw mode experience with that. your second sentence is complete description of why trickster is not fun to play. Use power, slow down, hit them few times, LOS. repeat that process along side the survivor winning by just hold-w passively. MFT exaggerates base-kit trickster's problems. I would not call MFT problem more that his base-balance is not good.
all the killer are affected MFT but how much they are affected varies on how well their power is balanced. for trickster, it is pretty bad because his base is bad.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/392961/the-stale-perk-meta
This does NOT mean that I want WoO nerfed or anything, but its kinda interesting to see how stale especially the survivor-meta is.
I'd say this is because the majority of survivor perks are really, really, -really- bad. Ranging from 'does nothing of significance' (Corrective Action, Diversion, Fast Track, Friendly Competition) to 'really niche and unlikely to be impactful' (Boil Over, Breakdown, Kinship, Left Behind) to 'actively detrimental' (Calm Spirit, Autodidact, Potential Energy, most boons).
There's relatively few that are consistent and valuable, which causes them to rocket to the top of the charts.
I think a while back, Otz had asked his community to tally how often they saw certain perks in their matches, and despite each match having four times as many survivors as killers, there were more survivor perks than killer perks that had a 0% pickrate.
There's just a TON of dead weight in the game with perks that just have no real reason to exist. I do think it's solvable, but it would require a colossal balancing patch.
i think it is because a lot of perk require team synergy to use and soloq lacks cohesion. the fact that window of opportunity is 32% and kindred+bond is 8.82+8.22 is 17% usage rate. it means big portion of survivors playing survivor are using 50% of their perks on aura-type perks. The only other perks you see above this are Adrenaline, MFT+Resilience and Lithe.
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@dbdthegame said:
Guy in my picture isn't seen in ~25% of games
the perk likely not changing due to mizark3 post. you can still win as killer. The perk is another DH type extend chase perk.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553218#Comment_3553218
As far as I am aware MMR for survivor works individually and it's your own MMR that goes up and down if you die or escape yourself. That's the big problem in my opinion. It's supposed to be a team oriented role, but in reality the score is individual.
it is individual but how much mmr you get is based on how many survivors escape the trial. so it is team based. solo escaping as last survivor is less rewarding towards MMR. it is not 0 reward but it is kinda go next type build with low faith on any success on the team.