Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
WoO is good when you're playing solo and majority of survivors are solo (I think as high as 60%), which would make sense they wanna run self-sufficient perks like WoO and MFT.
I mean I still play against killers bring 3 slowdowns whose entire plan is to whittle down the resources, that is super hard to deal with as solo survivor. you either have to bring a counter to slowdown/3gen perks or have a super strong early game so as to deny any advantage and chance for them to snowball, and that has not been hard to achieve in a while, especially for killers with decent map mobility.
Players will naturally gravitate towards least challenging playstyles.
UW isn't just an info perk, it's a 3 in one perk. it's an info perk, a disrupt perk and can be a slowdown perk with DMS. It can also be more efficient than bringing other aura perks like Nowhere to Hide or BBQ and Chili. It's also a great counter to solos in general since they rely a lot on aura to find their teammates (I bring Bond for example), and it can easily deny the perk you're complaining about (WoO). No need to be this biased. The only reason you don't see many complaints yet is because people are too slow to adopt it, or maybe cause it has not been in the Shrine yet and some people don't wanna pay money for a single perk that comes from a licensed killer. Let's see after it's added in the shrine and once high mobility killers start running it how annoying it'll be.
it is because ultimate weapon is not tremendously outshining other perks. bbq & nowhere to hide are good enough aura perks to not need ultimate weapon. killer do not value blindness at all. if they do, they're likely using knock out. DMS is not outshining pain res, pop, eruption or pain res, jolt, sloppy. it is at least equal for corrupt & deadlock.
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WoO is outshining other perks but the reason being is that it provides crucial swf-type info on your teammates pallet usage. you can get by without WoO but then you have to do some guess work whenever your teammate get chased and assume certain pallets are being broken based off killer TR and where survivor got hooked. many player don't want to do that guess work and run window of opportunity instead and then there is player that run windows because... they're new and they're learning the game with pallet spawns.
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@LatexT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568478#Comment_3568478
The game currently uses "The redeemer's shots" as a shortened version of "survivors hit by basic attacks while speared", so I kept the same description.
The prison chain is a great addon. Testing on AI gave you a wrong result as bots retain full control when being reeled and therefore have different timings. Like spearing one 18m away won't allow you to reel them in for a hit, unlike a real survivor. I have a clip if you need an example but I'll post it when I get home.
The oblivious effect is so that you can come back later for that person who broke the chain unnoticed, or to gain the advantage in a chase if you can break los. It's not stealth per se.
The broken effect is to keep a survivor injured for longer when they break the chain, so most of the times when you are not actively going to chase them. And staying injured against Slinger is a death sentence.
I appreciate your addon idea, I actually had the same but ultimately scrapped it, as it would need to be an iridescent or purple, and it's not really an interesting effect.
I think his chain durability is around 17 total meters if there is no objects in the way. if you slightly wiggle enough to put an object between you for 0.5-1 sec, you barely wiggle out at 16 meters. with longer chains collision, the durability of the chain is way lower. from playing survivor, I have wiggled out of deathslinger's harpoon gun on some tight encounters. This does not common but you can wiggle out. whenever you do, you barely wiggle out as survivor.
that is why your Jaw smasher add-on is a little bit strange because you will have trouble realing in a 20 meter shot. if the player connects the dots, they should figure out that Wanted Poster & Jaw Smasher add-on have to be used in synergy. At same time, I am not sure if 20% equals 2 meters.
I remember at one point otz did a video comparison with reeling speed and prison chain add-on. the difference was so minimal that those add-on might as well do nothing. I believe purpose of them from an intentional level was to make it so that deathslinger could reel around corners more easily but collision object penalty is so severe that if you hit a shot from other side of the loop that has obstacle blocking it. you will not get the hit through basic attacks.
The oblivious effect is so that you can come back later for that person who broke the chain unnoticed, or to gain the advantage in a chase if you can break los. It's not stealth per se.
i think your better off just making add-on reduce killer terror radius by 2 meters. it is likely not a very good but it makes stealth deathslinger's slightly better to some degree. most of deathslinger that I have played against nearly always commit to chases so I do not see any use for that oblivious add-on. it makes sense because he is slow and he is chase killer. my feedback would be similar for the broken.
The game currently uses "The redeemer's shots" as a shortened version of "survivors hit by basic attacks while speared", so I kept the same description.
your right. it is written on his mangled add-on. the description makes it sound like being hit by the spear on contact makes you acquire 5% haste for 10 seconds.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567953#Comment_3567953
I get so many survivors who camp pallets by doing this. Instead of lunging through it, you just tap m1, and often times they will stun me, but i'll still land the hit.
yeah, it is trick for countering survivor that understand pallet vacuum tech which is particularly annoying to play against when your nemesis with his tentacle strike. for m1 killer, just baby swing into pallet drops works like a charm. I did not know that there is delay for normal lunges hitbox. i thought it was only delay for when begin to lunge, not when you let go of the m1.
in regards OP, those hits look intended. ever since they fix that vault bug, I rarely feel like I get hit unfairly through vaults now.
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I have always wanted base-kit bond so I never run into my teammates during chases and some information to quickly find teammates to heal. if radius was expanded, it could also serve as a way for survivor to know what pallets their teammates have used in chase so window of opportunity becomes less used. it would also serve as kindred to know what someone is going for hook save so you do not waste time leaving generators. bond would also tell you where exit gates based on teammates locations.
soloq survivor would be way stronger. it would be finally possible to have 4 perk slots.
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warden key is a bit unclear. "redeemer shots from 12 meters away grant 5% haste for 10 seconds". I think you meant to write that survivors hit by the redeemer from 12 meters away grant deathslinger 5% haste effect for 10 seconds after successfully hitting a survivor by a basic attack. warden keys and tin oil sound really strong that those would likely become very popular to use add-on's.
Prison chain, Snake oil and Wanted poster statistically all do same thing despite having different effects. Prison chain add-on is like really bad. I tried testing it on AI at one point and it gives like 0.3 sec of extra distance or something. The same is true for that reeling speed add-on.
I would suggest making prison chain do a different effect such as "Reduces the chain break object collision penalty by 60%".
I am not exactly sure what idea behind chewed tobacco is. your generally in chase when oblivious proc's and survivor know where you are. while the old greek whiskey & marshall badge are bad stealth add-ons, they're probably better then that stealth add-on.
Rusted spike only applies broken when a survivor breaks free. the survivor is already injured so I am not convinced that this is a good add-on.
My suggestion would be following:
When a survivor is hit by the redeemer, all survivors within that survivors position scream and reveal their position in a 32 meter radius.
this would be good information add-on and emulate the idea of the survivor suffering through pain as they are speared by his gun through scream effect.
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@WiseTraveler said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568100#Comment_3568100
Yeah, understandable. I think the percentages definitely need a buff though for it being a hex perk.
hex ruin is only hex perk to strangely enough have much lower risk then other hexes because hexes are side-objectives which slow down the survivor's ability do generators so if survivor look for totems, the killer is getting slowdown but if survivor do not look for totems, then ruin gives free slowdown.
it is not game-winning slowdown because..... well regression gens at 100% is only 15% over 60 seconds but it is still free regression. it is not a bad perk but it get foreshadow by other slowdown perks because they have more consistency generally speaking for same/greater reward.
Hex ruin incentives chase because in order to get value from it you must push survivors off gen in order for it to eat away at the progression. Buffing Hex Ruin will also bring life into hex builds again & bring more variety.
not necessary. ruin generally promotes camping gens because.... a lot of the time, you would hook someone near a high progress like 70% and just camp hook while gen regresses. there was no incentive to hook people like other totems or play actively because ruin is only totem except for noed to gain all of active full power without doing any specfic actions. when you look at other totems like lullaby, devour hope, third seal, face the darkness, blood favor etc. etc., those totems require you to get hooks or they require to get hits for totem to do anything. ruin was just slap on and gain massive reward for doing very little. the perk was fragile and would often spawn poor positions/known positions for totems but it was free reward for the most part.
buffing ruin only makes ruin instant-pick. it won't change anything for other totems. the effects of other totems are just not desirable and they have no lifespan in many matches.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567811#Comment_3567811
Revving Movement speed is like I said - I took it from Wiki
0 - 0.3s 109.25%
0.3 - 1s 86.25% (from 109.25%)
1 - 2 s 86.25%
Chainsaw Sweep acceleration is like he raches max speed after 60% of his first charge - two different things.
Let's end this conversation because it's pointless when someone just doesn't know things.
your right. this is just talking about de-acceleration curve on when holding chainsaw. i mean your just better off just understanding it as you move at 86.25% and that is all you need to know. deceleration is not that relevant for the when you play the killer because you just notice yourself slowing down to crawl when you charge most powers.
i agree with ending conversation. I think changing add-on is an ok idea because LW is just 3-4 add-on with everything else being non-existent value but I do not see him getting improved because leatherface works just fine as he is.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567802#Comment_3567802
Yea, it does have an internal countdown of exactly 20 seconds, so even when Vigil reduces the duration of the Broken Status Effect, once it's gone you will still need to wait a few seconds before getting healed.
My guess is when the countdown reaches zero and you still have the Broken Status Effect, the heal just gets ignored, which is a bummer, it should be tied to the Broken Status Effect itself for more Perk synergy.
the main reason why i don't run it is because of requirement to need to heal teammates. if it just healed me off hook without needing a heal then I would use it. it is too inconsistent vs high-tier killers that injure people quickly and enforce you to do generators while injured. you have no time to heal teammates to trigger the perk.
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@ays12151 said:
Most Bubbas don't know how to use his Power.
I didn't mention Chainsaw Sweep acceleration. I mentioned Revving Movement Speed. I took it from Wiki. And it's right, because it feels like it in game. Only after 1 second Bubba gets really heavy slowdown during his Revving Time.
Shop Lubricant - Blindness? Because good against SoloQ? We shouldn't add perks or addons that are good only against SoloQ, right? If this addon would decrease cooldown after Breaking a Pallet for example 10 or 15% it wouldn't be to much and still he would has more better addons like Award Winning Chili or Beast's Marks.
Long Guide Bar - increase the Revving Movement Speed by 15%? You are crazy. It would be one of his best addons.
if this addon would increases Revving Movement speed from 86.25% to 90% it would be balanced. Good and simple addon. At least useful in some ways.
During this event we can get 10 (or 15%?) movement speed bonus from Pumpkin and I used it when Revving and it was amazing. Very powerful.
The Grease - if you use Chainsaw just from big distances - it wrong playstyle. Bubba should be very careful when using Chainsaw Charges. If you use 3 Tokens to just break a Pallet, it's very bad. I don't want to make these addons OP. Decrease time required to charge a Chainsaw by only 12% wouldn't make him too strong, but it would be very nice & simple addon to use.
Homemade Muffler - 0 noises from Chainsaw? On Bubba? For what? I don';t get it... Completely useless.
Depth Gauge Rake with 2% speed bonus would be very strong addon. One of the best. 2% is very very strong effect.
With Beast's Marks it would be almost 139% movement speed and 8 seconds of use... For me it wouldn't be too strong at current DBD but would be controversial.
I didn't mention Chainsaw Sweep acceleration. I mentioned Revving Movement Speed. I took it from Wiki. And it's right, because it feels like it in game. Only after 1 second Bubba gets really heavy slowdown during his Revving Time.
charging rev time is when your holding chainsaw before you use it. m/s is 86.25%. default charge time is 2 seconds. The rev time that wiki is talking about is his acceleration.
Long Guide Bar - increase the Revving Movement Speed by 15%? You are crazy. It would be one of his best addons.
if this addon would increases Revving Movement speed from 86.25% to 90% it would be balanced. Good and simple addon. At least useful in some ways.
i do not think you will notice that much of difference at 3.5%. at 15%, he would move at 103.5%. you would not lose any distance for holding out the chainsaw. he would barely be faster then survivor running speed. most of the time your using chainsaw max distances so I think survivor would not have trouble defeating bubba with this effect. it would just be funny to look at.
Depth Gauge Rake with 2% speed bonus would be very strong addon. One of the best. 2% is very very strong effect.
With Beast's Marks it would be almost 139% movement speed and 8 seconds of use... For me it wouldn't be too strong at current DBD but would be controversial.
I agree that it would be controversial. that is why i think his add-on are better off staying bad even though they could be really strong. current bubba is precise killer but if his add-on become strong then he becomes somewhat easy to play because you do not need as much precision on his power. that is why i think he is fine where he is.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567495#Comment_3567495
I mean you can also prevent legion from getting a 5 hit combo just by running away the second you hear the terror radius. Inner Focus isn't going to make a huge difference I think. Knowing where Legion is won't help you if you're already badly positioned. It'll be pretty effective but that isn't the case for just Legion, it'll be good against any snowball-type killer.
Small Game was a different story. It specifically made finding Bear Traps and Phantasm Traps easier. Getting a hit is shared between literally every killer, it doesn't directly target Legion like Small Game targeted Trapper and Hag.
No Mither doesn't prevent you from dropping Blood Orbs btw, and never has.
I don't think the aura reading duration needs to be increased though, just the range.
your heavily missing my point. i am saying that these perk are examples of "possible" interactions that make sense with killer ability but do not work that way for sole reason to not have perks that counter specific powers.
Inner focus is not good perk but the perk would shine in exactly against that one killer power only if it was global and worked off hits instead of healthy ->injured.
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567495#Comment_3567495
That would require you already are well spread out, which isn;t always the case and most games on average people are still grouping up against legion and doing gens in teams, plus a lot of maps are smaller than they used to be and the other maps are getting even smaller, which is indirectly a buff to Legion.
i am saying that inner focus allows you to plan spreading out when a hit happens vs legion. 5 second aura reading for every other killer is just irrelevant. I am not sure at what point would I consider using this perk for aura reading on-hit vs other killers. Maybe if it was 30 second of wall-hacks is when I would consider this perk valuable vs every killer. At that point, the aura reading is long enough that it would become mini old OoO assuming global+ the perk works on every hit.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I still don't know why they haven't made it mapwide yet. The aura reading is so bad, and it's such an easy change.
i know why. it is because the perk is hard-counter legion. you see, every time legion hits someone, his aura becomes revealed so if you saw legion, you could perfectly plan out the route where legion can never get 5 hit combo.
what prevents perk from being effective is 32 meter limit. perks that hard-counter core components killer powers are often put with drawbacks to make them not do that or straight up do not work(e.g No mither countering Oni's demon fury by not dropping blood, Yui's Lucky break perk), Small game & Trapper.
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@not_requested49 said:
I mean the more I think about it and how cool it is the more I'm saddened it'd going to go away, when this could very well be repurposed as his ACTUAL dream world when survivors fall asleep, instead of just putting on a filter and calling it a day
This would give him a more thematic feel but let's be honest, then have no interest in putting effort into old killers, which is sad tbh
oh for sure. freddy's power is pretty boring. his power could be like you get pulled into his own world from the map by X condition and when he successful does that, you teleport into void world where freddy gains wall-hacks. if he downs you in the dream world, he can hook you in dream world but in order other survivors to save you, they have to find go to the clocks on the map to wake you up(save you from the hook).
so he could be like first killer to have "teleporting" survivors out of the map.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's not really cut and dry. She has insane mobility for some things, but playing against effective W holders is really tedious. As others have said, there's not a killer on the roster that can match her in short range bursts other than Hag (kind of). Early W is extremely effective against her on some maps where she can't cut you off. Learning to zone a player who actually good is a whole thing to learn on Nurse. You have to be insanely patient.
your description is exactly what I dislike about nurse. For me, playing against nurse feels like playing against instant-scoping deathslinger that can shoot through walls and zones by sheer existence.
I understand that other killer have zoning capacities but they don't zone by existence and their zoning is avoidable/delayable. there is like skill component to not getting zoned and often a mechanical skill-component to avoid the ability all together. with nurse, you have very little to no agency in term of mechanical skill in avoiding nurse ability and even less agency in zoning. Patient nurses that have good time management and good assessment of risk vs reward for blinks are why I dislike playing vs nurse. I don't think she's overpowered or anything, just uninteresting to play against even when you escape.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566445#Comment_3566445
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SSHP4MDL7M6G/image.png
Doesnt have to be a turned on TV but any TV?
yes. you can put tape in any TV. the only time you cannot put a tape in any television is when she has iri-tape.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566371#Comment_3566371
About Revving Movement Speed
0 - 0.3 seconds 115% ---> 109.25%
0.3 - 1 second 109.25% ---> 86.25%
1 - 2 seconds 86.25%
if they were to buff leatherface's add-on for both iri to work together, it would be a good buff if iri flesh refreshed all his tokens on pallet breaks and downs. this would remove negative of spending 3 tokens to break 1 pallet and make add-on usable. another buff that would improve it is changing the -2% to +2%. the -0.28 charge time increase would not matter too much if it is used with iri flesh.
Depth Gauge rake is an add-on that looks a lot like billy's old tuning carburettor guide where I think intended effect is it grants leatherface 1 extra chainsaw sweep, +2% bonus speed and -18% rev charge time. it just has negatives currently to make you not want to use it. Just flipping negatives into a positive would make superior beast marks with more bonuses.
Light Chasis is an add-on that gives him aura reading when he is revving. this would be good add-on if it worked when he reving and driving the chainsaw.
shop lubricate is an add-on to represent his Knock out perk. it is bad because it only works for 20 seconds. this add-on would better be represented as blindness for 90 seconds. at the same time, blindness slugging is one of those mechanics where it is not useful vs swf but can be effective vs soloq. i do not see them changing this because perception of this mechanic is somewhat labelled as "unhealthy" for what otz talks about in that weird perk video.
Long guide bar as you said is very irrelevant. 3.5% m/s is good bonus but the number could be like 15% m/s because leatherface is so slow when charging chainsaw that 3.5% will not do much.
The Grease is same irrelevant effect. -12% charge time is good bonus but since leatherface is all about charging chainsaw at a distance, the charge time for him would only make him take less time to not get slowed when using chainsaw in most situations. I suppose you could use pointblank near the survivor to get windows hits. it would be nostalgic version of old leatherface where player would have to go right next to the survivor to get downs back when he only had 1 charge.
another add-on that is not very useful but has strange effect is his Grisly chain. this add-on makes you drop your item similar to his perk called franklin demise. dropping item is not that useful in most cases. I would rework it to be an exhaustion add-on that applies 3 second exhaustion when leatherface completes a chainsaw rev when a survivor is within the killer's terror radius.
He has two add-on to reduce his chainsaw tantrum. Homemade Muffler and Chain file. Chain file should be buffed to reduce his tantrum by 1.5 second from 0.5 seconds and Homemade Muffler should have the rarity switched from Yellow to Purple. The Rusted Chain add-on would be changed to yellow. Broken for 90 second is not that useful for leatherface because he already has a permanent access to instant down. It only has niche use with thanatophobia which is a bad perk right now. The new effect for Homemade Muffler would be that his chainsaw noise is suppressed when survivor are outside of his terror radius. This would work similarly to Billy's Apex Muffler.
These are all possible improvement that would give leatherface more add-on variety choices but before he could choose any of these other choices. he would need award winning chili base-kit and those corresponding add-on weaken to something like +0.1/0.15 chainsaw dash extension for purple/yellow chili.
For reference, I do not think LW needs improvements but he would be a lot stronger if he had better add-on and slightly better base-kit. perhaps he might be too strong. I am not sure. most people only see leatherface as face-camping killer but he is capable in the chase with add-on's. he is just not effective at chase at base-kit. he needs add-on to be relevant chasing killer. he is just one of those killer that requires a lot of foresight and gameplay experience to do well.
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My ideal map if I ever designed would be a map with 15-18 pallets but 50% of the pallets would be pallets with long side and short side similar to dead dog saloon pallet where when you are on top floor and you drop down, there is that wagon pallet. these pallets would be random spawn, so you could have 5/15, 6/16, 7/17, 8/17, 9/18 of these type of pallets. these pallets could be placed anywhere but they should never link into windows or other pallets. so min-distance of 12 meters.
the remainder of the pallets should be unsafe pallets similar to the dead dog saloon pallet behind the basement building but they should connect to each other to be like really close to each other such that if you drop them, they link into each other when dropped. I am not sure how close a pallet has to be for you consider linking it but let say 6-10 meters of each other. I would refer these pallets as pallet chains. in other words, if one spawns, other spawns and each map would have 2-4 pallet chains for a total of 4-6 pallets.
the remainder of pallets would be reserved for classic tile-set.... like shack, long wall jungle gyms, classic jungle gyms and ormond type jungle gym. most of the time, the map seems to have a shack+2-3 tile-sets. but i think tile-set that spawn should be weaker or stronger based off how many filler pallet that spawned. for example, 8-9 short long side pallet spawns and 3 pallet chains spawn then loops should be weaker variants like 4 lane wall, T-L wall, single long-wall pallet but if the map spawns 5-6 filler pallets with 2 pallet chains then the map should contain strong tiles like Ormond jungle gym, classic long-wall gym, regular jungle gym.
dbd's issue with maps is that a lot of the map spawn with really strong easy to use resources. the resources are like loop pallet twice, drop the pallet, killer break pallet. rince repeat. there is not enough playing around dropped pallets and there is like lack of strategy in linking pallets along with too much reliance on tile-sets, often strong tile-sets.
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@Grigerbest said:
I see a lot of people saying: "This event is for fun only, stop caring about wins". I want to ask them couple questions:
In what world (game), participation in the event is making you lose a match? This is first for me.
I don't know a single online game, where there is a choice between "Participate in event and lose, or forget about event and win".
Are you fine with depiping match after match because you just want to use event tools and have some fun with? I'm not.
So if I like the event and I like to participate in this event - means that I just completely ignoring the victories and keep getting depips match after a match.
"I'm just gonna bring 2 ghosts from the void. Oh sh, I just lost 2 gens because of that, well no problem, I'm sure these ghosts will help me down them quicker... Ghosts sponds at the corners of the map for the entire match"
"Oh now they disrespect me by clicking and t-bagging, I guess I'm gonna ignore this event and sweat as much as I can"
I don't think this is what you call a: "Event for fun".
This event was not well thought through enough, let's get that right. The idea is great, but it was implemented without care.
This event is just non-existing for killers. If you try - it may cost you a match. Ask you again: Are you fine with depiping all the time, because of this event?
Why on Earth are survivors allowed to do gens, when the killer is in the other realm creating ghosts? The gens should be blocked by the Entity, while killers is in the void.
Killers are not doing their objective while they are in the void, Survivors are. They only need 1 survivor to create a ghosts, while others are doing objective.
Now we have this situation: A bunch of teleporting around survivors (they can teleport through portals around the map), with bnps sitting on gens much more than before (because they want energy) participating in the event (creating ghosts), and a poor killer player who just want to participate in this event, but they just simply have no time to do so, so they have to sweat even more.
This event is not fun, if it makes me lose a game.
The events should completely stop the main objective and make EVERYONE participate in it, without any negative outcomes.
this event is again opposite of past event where killer received bloodlust instant down and remote pallet breaking as powers while survivor power were not too useful leading killer sided event.
this event is survivor sided because they did not account that killer having to do same interaction as survivor but there is only 1 killer as opposed 4 survivors. the killer ghosts should be instant.... like using hex:pentimento perk.
I think you can participate in the event as killer but you only get participate after you kill one survivor. so in many ways, this event encourages killer to tunnel 1 survivor until they die to create 3vs1 THEN participate in the event where killer can spend some time to play around with ghosts
you need to already be winning as killer to use event. if you try use event normally, you have to treat it like setting trapper's traps where you give up early game in order to potencial get haste+stealth. it is return on invest type mechanic. set up to gain reward.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
There is a sound cue for when people enter the void. If you listen to that as killer you can catch survivors there. And if you bring STBFL you can also down them before they can leave the portal even when they are healthy.
If you want to waste extra time, you can slug them there too, but I don't like something like this during events.
I have not confirmed it yet but if you can open a portal right next to a hook you might even be able to "camp" from the void. Just exit through the same portal you went in.
this event looks like killer power. it is so cool. the dev are on fire on this event. what I wonder is this power suppose represented a new killer power? To me, these two worlds look something like freddy's power where there is dream world of fake reality and real world. I wonder if there is some idea behind it.
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@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566238#Comment_3566238
Thank you for your answer! I really respect that. Can you tell me where you see her weakness and what counterplay survivors have to do?
her anti-loop has same weaknesses as clown. when you have no claw trap, you want to chain loops together to delay lock-on and prologue chase as much as possible. when you do have a claw trap, you want to go safe pallet/god pallets and pre-drop them. camp the long side of the pallet and use check-spots to slide as killer swings. isolated loops are not worth going for and will result in you acquiring a claw trap. when HUD shows that nobody is in chase, avoid working on generators as her stealth is a lot better than previously so opening hits can happen more easily. resume working on generators when someone enters the chase. crouch/stand still to avoid being detected by drones. never take any lock-on stacks outside of a chase. it makes chase harder for your teammates.
overall, she is little bit of clown, little bit of wraith/gf and little bit of hag with wiping of traps/disabling drones. she is not 5 gen chase killer that you can bully but it is not like she gives no counter-play options to extend chase provide the map is not heavily killer sided.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566106#Comment_3566106
Are you saying that Beast's Marks is weaker than Award Winning Chili? You are wrong. With Beast's Marks you can outplay most of the loops. Maybe in begginer hands Award Winning Chili may be better. But, Beast's Marks is all what Cannibal needs. You said about destroying Pallets & zoning - with this playstyle at current DBD on a little bit higher level you can now win many matches.
Bubba needs to outplay loops, use his creativity, use his knowledge about the power etc etc. Without Beast's Marks it's always like "Oh I broke a Pallet, but I didn't get a down" or "Oh I got stunned by a Pallet during my Chainsaw Sweep" - BECAUSE playing without Beast's Marks is like that.
Award Winning Chili also aplies hidden penalty about acceleration.
I main Cannibal since 2019, I have 40 000 Downs with his Chainsaw, I played in the Otz/Hens Showcase, 1v1s Tournaments and most of people know me as very good Bubba with the best knowledge and people usually trust me when I talk about Cannibal.
Award Winning Chili also aplies hidden penalty about acceleration.
yes and no. see, bubba acceleration only happens on first charge of chainsaw. every chainsaw sweep after 1st charge is full movement speed because it is adding additional 2 second duration to chainsaw. that why award chili add so much distance on perfectly timed chainsaw extension because your adding 2.5 x2 for 5 extra second of full speed as opposed to 2 x2 for 4 seconds of speed at no downside. the scale of acceleration only applies to his first charge and downside is very minimal.
this was also why tuning guide was so terrible because tuning guide scales his acceleration into 1 charge so movement speed scaler was taking his entire 1 charge and accelerating entire 7.5 seconds of his chainsaw. now after the fix, it scales only his first 2.5 seconds of acceleration and makes you move full speed for additional remaining seconds of his chainsaw. Tuning guide is still terrible because 3 tokens = 1 pallet break. tuning guide also is kinda useless because skilled bubba can time all chainsaw sweeps perfectly. as a result, the tuning guide removes all control from bubba because he cannot allocates the tokens per loop. The only positive way to use his tuning guide is with iri flesh to slug but as long you go to a pallet and camp it, it removes any snowball potencial from the chainsaw.
Are you saying that Beast's Marks is weaker than Award Winning Chili?
of course, you can do the math. If you add 1 extra second of chainsaw, you move an extra 5.28 meters+some extra from acceleration in 1st sweep. the survivor during this time moves at 4.0 m/s. i will not use 5.28 number. I will use like 5.5 because I don't know details enough with that scaling speed. ~5.5 - 4.0 = 1.5 meters gained.
For beast marks, we need wiki to understand this.
this is a lot harder to calculate because lw in first charge is going from 86.25% ->132.25% so that 3% is scaling on first charge. I am just going say that it is 0.12 x 2 seconds to take raw value of speed. so you get estimated ~+0.48 meters of distance. for 2nd and 3rd charge, 132.25 - 136.21 is roughly 3.96% speed. 4% is about 0.16 m/s. assuming you perfectly time his chainsaw, you get 0.64 meters of distance. in total, your getting about 1.13 meters of distance but this get worse. you see, the beast marks also have - penalty to charge time. this means that if survivor running forward, you are losing m/s for longer amount of time. Bubba's default chainsaw time is 2 seconds for 86.25%. With beast marks, it becomes 12% longer. so now it is 2.24 seconds. 0.24 * 0.55 is 0.132 meters extra lost. so to conclude, you are getting around ~0.98 meters of catch-up.
1.5 meters is greater then 0.98. so yes award chili is better individually speaking. beast mark becomes better when your duration on chainsaw is longer. this is because your catching up the survivor sooner. as a result, the survivor running forward for less time. so between running purple chili+yellow chili vs purple chili & beast mark. the beast mark is superior compare to yellow chili. I have played a lot of cannibal as well. I have never done math like this but I could feel that award chili would do more for me on average then beast marks.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566226#Comment_3566226
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566230#Comment_3566230
BHVR has changed things in the past without telling anyone. They repeatedly nerfed PWYF in use with various killer powers without telling anyone. As well as increasing Xeno's tail hitbox in the last patch and instantly starting it's attack recovery when hitting a survivor, (The tail attack animation had to be fully completed before the recover animation started).
Unless there's an official statement saying otherwise, assume that a change is intentional. Because if it's a bug then it doesn't matter what you think about it. Because it will (hopefully) be fixed at some point. But if it's intentional then BHVR needs to know that the change was a bad idea.
the change is a bad change. it will get fixed when they get chance to release a patch for the fix. they generally always break the game with many random bugs on every mid-chapter/main chapter. I am not sure how this occurs or why this occurs but none of the changes are intended.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565345#Comment_3565345
i think adding 1.5 lockdown would be a bit OP but about the synergy, I don’t feel that I should need a purple and green add on to make my power useful. I’m not saying they should be base kit, just that for two add ons to only be good with each other kinda just sucks.
and again same thing with adaptive lighting. The add on shouldnt need so much for it to be useful because the effect itself isn’t all that strong.
they further empower her anti-loop if you have claw trap on. the default is decent enough to play almost every dropped pallet so I would not consider it neccassary but the add-on are not useless or bad. they empowered specific niche.
@The_Daydreamer said:
I know I am most likely not the target here, but I sincerely want to know why you main or play Skull Merchant. I've played as and against her and I completely dislike everything about her.
When I play her I feel so dirty, since there's lowkey no skill involved imo. Your drone gives you a strong Haste Effect + Undetectable, while slowing Survivors with the Hindered Status Effect. With all these effects you get easily a free hit and if not, don't worry your drone can damage survivors too. Sure they don't scan you if you don't move, but that's not possible in a chase. Deactivating drones does basically nothing: You can't hack them in a chase and she can instantly recall then replace one. I see so many survivors dc'ing against her and I honestly can't blame her.
Now this is not meant as a whole rant about why I dislike her, more to see what you have to say about her. Why is she fun? What weakness do you see and what strengths? Because right now I think she is overtuned af.
lots of reasons. the first reason is that many pallet that are dropped are typically in survivor favor. with drone haste and hindered, they give opportunity for skull merchant to win at dropped pallets. a dropped pallet for skull merchant does not necessary involve killer kicking the pallet. many of killer are often forced to break pallets. the haste in particular is amazing counter to MFT. her new found undetectable allows her to get opening hits with her drones. this undetectable was previously not very good as it only last 2 seconds beyond hiding red light for mindgames but now you can use her stealth to get opening hits. lastly, she has situational tracking if survivor misplay vs drones.
lots of these positives she had her previous iteration with geo readout and strobes add-on so I am not sure why people only played her 3 gen character. sure, she was strong at 3 gens like any trapping control killer but she was always capable in chase with add-on's. I think people over-prioritized 3 gen with her without considering other more fun play-style options.
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@SirCracken said:
As the title says; Knight's guards are now unable to detect survivors who create loud noises within the guard's detection radius. Such as dropping pallets or fast vaulting.
This an admittedly a pretty small part of Knight's kit. But it allowed for some interesting plays where you could set up guards around walls and bait survivors into doing something loud to get their attention. These plays are now completely impossible.
I have to ask: Who decided that Knight needed to be nerfed when his guard AI still consistently bugs out when a hunted survivor drops a pallet? Is it not enough that the last two add-on changes he received completely failed to do anything substantial?
Please address the issues that Knight suffers from instead of needlessly nerfing him!
i think it is a bug. his guards are not phasing through pallets and the noise notification alert on knight is bugged. so as usual, every new patch brings new bugs to be fixed. I do not think these are intentional negative changes, they just bug that affect killer's ability to play the killer.
Pinhead still has that bug with his gateway that they have yet to fix and dredge has nightfall bug where you cannot see nightfall UI as killer. hopefully they fix those bugs.
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tracking does not instantly win you the match as killer. in term of raw detection in finding a survivor, it is unmatched but in term of giving precise information, nowhere to hide and bbq are not too far in terms of tracking perks compare this tracking perk. they show aura and often survivor will not know that their location has been revealed. furthermore, you can be tracked all game as survivor but as long you are successful at looping killer, it is still possible to finish generators and escape.
another aspect to note is that the perk does have drawbacks. survivor screams immediately revealing their location meaning they know that they have been detected unlike aura perk that do not tell survivor that they're being revealed. it has 30 second activation window and 30 second cooldown. if you add cooldown and activation window, ultimate weapon has total cooldown of 60 seconds. the 60 cooldown is because survivors only scream once in the activation window. Calm spirit does counter the perk.
your suggestion to give it 5 stacks of stbfl which stacks with other perks of corresponding type is potentially too much stacking of same effect. with that much attack cooldown reduction, it becomes near instant down for the survivor for how quick you would recover.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565416#Comment_3565416
Bubba's best addon at the moment is Beast's Marks. He needs just Beast's Marks to outplay almost all loops in the game. In good hands of course. Purple Chili itself is "weak" I can say. This addon is good with Beast's Marks and that's all. I would prefer to add Beast's Marks base kit than Purple Chili.
i do not agree. you can outrun his chainsaw because negative charge time penalty outpaces movement speed when running in a straight line and at loops. it is very rarely that you can hit survivor at loops with his chainsaw. in general, survivor tend to always make it to the pallet. as a result, you tend to break pallets more with LW than anything else. your chainsaw needs to outlast survivor's distance gain on you for them to throw the pallet. When they throw pallet, you break the pallet in 1 second. this gameplay summary is why his duration add-on are good for leatherface. without duration, you can only use his chainsaw near point-blank because you cover too little distance between all 3 charges.
what beast mark add-on is all about is post-pallet breaks. when you break a pallet, your chainsaw sprint ends. between your cooldown of acquiring tokens and the next pallet, the survivor's gains distance to go next loop. with just default chili, the survivor is often far too ahead for you to use your chainsaw to hit them. you need all 3 charges however you spend charges to break the pallet. beast marks improves 2nd charge and 3rd charge of purple chili's chainsaw duration. in other words, the beast mark and award chili gives leatherface an anti-shift w tool between loops. for example, if you break a pallet and you spend 2 tokens. by time you recharge 1 token, you can often use 2 token chainsaw to hit the survivor between the loop. Sometimes survivor still makes to next pallet because both pallets were very close to each other. in that instance, survivor has to drop the pallet in which case you will break it immediately but if they do not drop the pallet then you hit them. as i explained earlier, leatherface has 1 second pallet break so pre-drop pallets gives survivor little distance. this often means that you can walk as leatherface and as soon as survivor is within your 1 charge or 2 token chainsaw distance, you can rev up your chainsaw and hit them on very last sweep.
leatherface as character is all about judging distances and chainsaw catch-up 10+ second ahead of time. his main source of anti-loop is pallet zoning in the corner on the corner map pallets. the pallet in the center of the map are often safe enough for survivor to chain loops. the saving grace is that these pallet are relatively easy to chew through so leatherface can often break all of the pallets very quickly where a lot of the map quickly becomes dead-zone for his instant down. when it comes to the window, bamboozle is a perk to block isolated windows. it is possible win mindgames as leatherface at windows without blocking them but cooldown of chainsaw is severely long if survivor wins the mindgame.
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I think your ideas are really good ideas for bubba. bubba's main issue right now is that he is too reliant on award chili to enable using his chainsaw in the chase. so regardless of what add-on they change, he would need base-kit purple chili to enable using other add-on's.
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@scrunkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565327#Comment_3565327
im ngl i have no idea what you think i was implying, but i dont understand why hitting a survivor over an object would be a "trick shot" and even if it is, i dont see the problem? going for hits over objects was the main appeal of xeno for me, i dont want to only hit survivors thatre locked into an animation or straight lining etc. up until the recent midchapter, xeno was able to do that reliably. most wouldnt call a huntress or slinger that hits over an object a "trick shot", so why is xeno being able to do it too an issue all of a sudden
I have been playing Xeno and I feel like dragging is a bit off. I keep hitting the wall as if my tail hitbox is not extending to full 4.8 meters so while the hitbox does work correctly in open areas and straight lines. it has trouble hitting over objects. the active hitbox of the tail still feels a little bit bugged and needs a little more improvement. I thought it was just me playing badly but it appears other people have same problem.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
So, if anyone at all remembers me its probably from my rigorous defence of all things Skull Merchant and my 'I told you so' about her rework. While my original statement ended up being true, the devs have done some tweaks on her from PTB -> live release and I decided to bite my tongue as some of the changes seemed to big for me to really accurately account for most possibilities with esp with the lack of variables. So I've been on a DBD binge and exclusively playing Skull Merchant every single killer game I play and after extensively playing her re-reworked state, my conclusion is...not bad. Theres still some issues Id like addressed sooner rather than later but overall they have aided in a lot of the initial issues I had with the previous iteration of her PTB state.
Now, if you're reading this I'm sure you'd rather hear the negatives first so I'll knock those out of the way.
- Too many mid or bad addons - enough said, I'll cover the add ons later
- Stealth drone can sometimes hurt you in chase - I have poor vision just normally and sometimes its very hard to see which direction the stealth drone is spinning and it sort of looks like a ball of blurry lights, maybe add a beam that only skull merchant can see so she can better plan and predict it while also making stealth drones deadlier in chase?
- Punish Free Drone Disable - I mean I dont know who thought this up but its probably my biggest gripe with her atm survivors can endlessly just disable drones with no punishment at all. I don't know what the punishment should be, maybe like they can be scanned on the radar for 10 seconds after or maybe they just get slowed down for 10 seconds that way doing them right in her face isn't a smart idea? Just something to make it so a good team can curbstomp her by just having one person run around making me an M1 killer in late game.
- Sensitivity to her drone selection - When pulling up the radar to reverse a drones blade rotation, I feel its extremely sensitive and often times I find myself accidentally reversing another blades rotation or sometimes accidentally recalling a different drone. Maybe make it so the arrow will slightly prioritize the drone thats closer to you so that way its not as frustrating and sensitive to deal with esp since we use the feature in chase a lot more now and with the two extra drones taking up screen space it can be a challenge sometimes to really lock on which drone you're trying to mess with.
- Huge speedboost from claw trap - Yeah I don't get why they get THIS huge of a speed boost because at that point whats so different as if I hit them myself? They just gain a bunch of distance and move to the next tile but thanks to this speed increase it doesn't really hinder them in any way this is a huge problem esp early-mid game where a web might not be set up enough to punish an injured claw trapped survivor. Which brings me to my next point
- Injured survivors with clawtraps suffer very little - So basically unless a survivor is transitioning tiles, they don't really suffer from the clawtrap being on them and even then some maps have pallets so close it doesn't affect much.
- Restricted playstyle - One thing I LOVED about old Skull Merchant is that she had so many ways you could play her. Sure they might not have been the most effective but they were there but now she just feels stuck in chase merchant mode. I would've loved for the rework to focus on expanding on the other ways to play her and make her more effective outside of gen defense, while also bringing down her gen defense instead of shoving her down the chase only path.
Now, I'll only mention the highs and lows of her add-ons to keep this brief:
Highs
- Ultrasonic Speaker - Decreases Survivors' scan line immunity duration by 25% (This add ons very fun to use and play around with! Definitely has helped me in chase a bit from what I can tell esp with the ability to switch rotation so props!)
- Prototype Rotor - Increases drones' rotation speed by 10% (Also pretty fun and makes drones just that much more lethal overall nice addon)
- Low Power Mode - Decreases Eye In The Sky's cooldown by 25% (Just nice to have QOL wise and makes her feel a little bit smoother to play, but imo wouldn't hurt buffing it)
Phew now the lows...
Lows
- Vital Targeting Predecessor - Increases strength of hindered on claw trapped survivor by 3% (Everything about this add on irks me, the fact its supposed to be like a weird counter to made for this, the fact that the value is so low for effort and effect, I could really go on. Why not bump it up to 5% or better yet, make it so anytime any survivor is hit with lock on they get 5% hindered for like 3 seconds make it like old randomized strobes so it makes her drones more lethal overall
- Adaptive Lighting - Increases duration of undetectable by 25% (Okay first why not just say increases undetectable by 1.6 seconds? Also please just make the add on 2-2.5 seconds it isn't that strong of an effect either way and it has a cool down so she can't even spam it just please make this add on worth the slot its taking up...)
- Powdered Glass - Hitting a claw trapped survivor inflicts mangled and hemorrage (Really? Just make it inflict mangled and hemorrage when a survivor gets a claw trap why would I take up an add on slot on a worse version of sloppy butcher?)
- Loose Screw - Survivors get exhausted for 6 seconds when receiving a claw trap (This is by far the most niche situational add on she has. Why not make it so everytime a survivor is scanned with a drone they receive 3 seconds of exhaustion? its really small changes like this that would make these add ons so much better.)
Overall with all the cons I have with this rework, I enjoy it and Im glad they took it in the right direction after the PTB and brought back some skill element to her. Hopefully they release a tweak wave in the next patch to address some of these issues but overall she's in a decent albeit still slightly weak place but shes at least in a playable state.
vital targeting predecessor is kinda good. in comparison, the randomised strobes is not very good however both add-on do have synergy. If I was improve strobes to make it more distinct add-on, I would make it so that being scanned by drone gives 1.5 lock stacks instead of 1 lock-on stack.
adaptive lightning is decent when paired with low power power mode. it gives her decent stealth.
I think most of her add-on are all very usable. if there was any small adjustment to her that would be nice. I would like them to change 3 of her add-on's.
Supersonic increases Extends the Battery life of Claw Traps by +15 % -> 25%.
Expired Battery increases strength of haste of survivor tracked by 25%, reduced the claw trap battery life from 50% -> 25%.
High Current Upgrade: Increases duration of tracked survivors by 1 second -> 5 seconds.
these add-on look like they should have good effects but their number are a bit off. her add-on list is scales very good and reminds very much of plague's add-on list where everything has purpose and can be used in creative ways.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564549#Comment_3564549
You can 99% sprint burst to the point where you're not exhausted anymore. It's pretty hard to do tho.
the game only has two states for debuff's. exhausted and not exhausted. there is no half-exhausted. when Icon for exhaust disappears and you are running normal with SB, you are still exhausted but the game UI cannot tell difference between 99% and 99.5% because it is dealing with decimals. 99% which is 39 second/40 second and 99.5% which is 39.5 second/40 second are both exhausted. If you are not exhausted, you will activate sprint burst and become exhausted. @mizark3 mentions this interaction in one of his posts which I will quote as:
The frame perfect fake 99 still counts as Exhausted. You can bring Dramaturgy and test it out, and it won't let you use Dramaturgy while running at the fake 99, so you are still considered Exhausted, thus no MfT.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564786#Comment_3564786
You've been arguing against a strawman for so long, frankly, I considered not engaging. You said MFT can't be used with any exhaustion perks outside DH, I said that's demonstrably false, to include SB. I never said it was optimal, I said they could be used together; and they can.
If you wanna see 4 man genrush boxes or more egregious MFT stacking, I can dig up screenshots. That happened to be a game I played right before replying, so I posted the screenshot. Any time there's a 100% incentive on killer, that is 3/5 lobbies that I run into.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564826#Comment_3564826
No, Bloodlust just makes the game stale and stupid if the killer decides to commit to BL3 for every hit, in the same way old Legion was stale and stupid. There is no skill expression involved in removing BL, just RNG. If you get bad loop chains and the killer decides to BL, you are getting hit regardless. I've seen far too many Onryos sending themselves to Lerys/RPD and spamming teleport until someone is fully condemned, then chasing them with BL3 until they get the down. It's uninteractive and requires very little skill.
I don't know who started the rumor that BL loses one stack on stun but it needs to stop. This has never been the case. Only time BL is affected is when a pallet is broken, or power is used, or a hit is made, or chase is lost.
If you can down all of those players with MFT, you're playing against bad players. I'd be more than happy to hop in a 1v1 with you, where you use SB and I use MFT, and we can test who lasts longer. Killer of my choice of course, and amongst the ones you named.
it can be used with some other exhaustion but it removes uptime of MFT. lower uptime makes the perk less effective. this is why I do not understand your complaint about a perk that is inactive for most of the match. @mizark3 point is that bloodlust exists for players like you that struggle to play m1 killers and complain about MFT.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564915#Comment_3564915
There's a fair bit that doesn't make sense to me in here.
- What does the minimum distance between drones have to do with the minimum distance between hooks and drones?
- Even if those could for some strange reason not have separate values, it's not like using drones to camp is a healthy aspect that we have to be cautious to maintain. Not being able to use drones when chasing around a hook is a fair point of course, although I generally have never put much stock into these arguments along the lines of "survivors will abuse this by taking the chase to the hook!", because that's one of the worst things you can do - now the killer can camp and chase at the same time.
- It's curious that the patch notes say the minimum distance between drones is 16m, but it somehow ended up being 12. If anything I feel like they may have accidentally taken the hook distance and applied it to drones. In either case, with the scan radius being 10m (and there being no add-ons to modify this), there is still no possible way drone zones should be overlapping. The minimum distance must simply be bugged. And they are not overlapping by mere centimeters either, as your "oval drone" theory would suggest. They are overlapping by meters.
- I don't know whether you mean you don't see issues with overlapping drones, but the issue is that now you have 4 scan lines to worry about, and multiple drones within close proximity around any gen, such that even if you do manage to hack one before Merchant can chase you off, once she does you are still getting scanned.
- 3-genning has always been a very strong strategy, and it is particularly problematic for uncoordinated (non-SWF) groups. It was fine-ish in the past, but these days the gen clusters that can spawn are ridiculous, new strong perks to complement 3-genning have been released, and certain killers excel at it. BHVR has already said they want to address this issue globally, now they just have to do it. But we know this will take a long time, even if the solution ends up being very simple (such as spawning an 8th gen).
The "strategy" currently against 3-gen Merchant seems to be to just stay injured and leave the gen early if she approaches, because hacking drones is simply a waste of time - she will recall and reset immediately. The issues with not hacking being: without voice comms, leaving early is regularly not possible, not least due to Undetectable; depending on the distance between gens, pre-running may actually result in a stalemate scenario like with old Merchant; Hindered and Haste mean that she can still get you even if you pre-run; you have to mend constantly; she constantly knows people's positions as they keep getting scanned and clawtrapped.
I'm curious to see whether Otz or whoever will conduct another experiment to see how a good, coordinated team fares against an experienced 3-gen Merchant. I wouldn't be surprised if even in that environment she is still very strong, despite being so easy to play. And of course, this spells nightmares for non-SWF groups.
Edit: Actually, silly me. Both drones have a scan radius of 10m, so the minimum distance between them of course would have to be 20m in order to avoid overlapping scan zones. What made BHVR not consider this?
your describing old skull merchant. if you ignore drones in new version of skull merchant near gens, the skull merchant when she comes to kick gen will intercept you with red laser beams with nearby drone. if you get hit by lock-on stack, you will eventually receive claw trap which injures you and eventually hinders you. recalling and reset does not matter because survivor can be in 4 places at once where as killer can only be on 1 place.
the results for otz will be the same as previous one. survivor team will escape. survivor is always suppose to win in gen progression vs gen regression. In terms of chase merchant, I am not sure if she is stronger. when otz did knight vs skull merchant video, skull merchant was able to chase very well. I am not sure how good this version is at chasing. it is too early to tell. I imagine it is similar or slightly worse.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564649#Comment_3564649
Well, if they would hurry up with that 3-gen change, sure, but it's something that's been an issue for years and years, and I would rather Merchant is unable to recall and instantly reset disabled drones for the time being than deal with 3-genning Merchants for who knows how many more months. She is not a "chasing trap killer", she still excels at controlling an area. Every Merchant I have faced so far has been 3-genning. The very least they have to do immediately is fix the bug that allows her to set up drones closer to one another than the patch notes state. The zones can overlap and that should be physically impossible.
I don't even think not being able to recall disabled drones would take away from her chasing playstyle much. You are using drones in chases, the survivor that is being chased can't hack them, and other survivors would have to go way out of their way to do so precisely because those drones will not regularly be around gens. But I hadn't played on the PTB, so I don't know first-hand. Perhaps they could make it so that you can recall deactivated drones if you are a certain, long distance away from them, making it less of an issue for area control.
it is 12 meters currently. reason for 22 meters to 12 meters is because one of problems with old skull merchant is that every time you hook someone, all drones would disappear. if survivor loops around hook, you cannot use your drone for chasing purposes. drone distance was just annoying feature. i think drones can slightly overlap because of the drone not being perfect sphere. they are likely an oval shape. I do not see any problems because lasers do not detect you when you stand still and hacking drones is not difficult.
weakening 3 gens significantly weakens camping. perhaps a perk to help survivors that struggle to defeat 3 gens might be decent solution. I don't have that much problem with 3 gens anymore in soloq.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
survivors who have MFT equipped (and are affected by it, so this would disable while Exhausted and/or healthy, for instance) should have a visual tell so the killer knows to play around it
But the problem is, the perk has no inherent counterplay for the killer.
The only counterplay (I use that word very loosely here) the perk has is equipping add-ons or perks that make survivors Exhausted. But since you cannot alter your build mid-match, there's nothing a killer can actually do about it once they realise it's in play. You could argue that killers should just equip such builds for all games they play, but it's not a viable option considering:
- Not all killers even have Exhaustion add-ons.
- Not all killers can afford to waste perk slots on Exhaustion-inflicting perks.
- Plus, most perks that do this are very bad at it. E.g. Blood Echo has an overly long cooldown, Genetic Limits has a niche activation requirement, Septic Touch is... just terrible in every way, etc.
The only consistent counterplay to MFT being "have foresight of the perks that the survivors will run so you can preemptively equip Exhaustion builds" doesn't sit right with me.
You could argue that giving MFT a visual tell allows the killer to make more informed decisions about which chases to commit to and which to drop. But that also doesn't work in situations where all of the survivors have MFT (in addition to other chase perks like Resilience and WoO). Okay, so the perk has a visual tell, and I now know that the whole team is running MFT. But what exactly am I supposed to do with that information?
Prevent stacking
I see this suggestion a lot, but I don't think it will solve the problem. Haste stacking only exacerbates the problem with MFT, but I honestly believe the 3% on its own is still an issue. Yeah, it sounds like a very small number when you think of it compared to the absolute speed of 100%. But that's not what's relevant in a chase. The length of time it takes for killers to catch survivors is governed by differential speed between the two. Running the numbers (as has been done in this Reddit post, as well as many times here on the forums) reveals that even a small 3% speed boost for the survivor increases the length of time required to catch a survivor by:
- 25% for 4.6 ms^-1 killers.
- 42% for 4.4 ms^-1 killers.
And that's in a vacuum. Not even considering the extra loops around windows, pallets, debris etc. that MFT allows you to get. Slap on Resilience to vault faster, and WoO to plan your pathing better -- and chases are going to last a WHOLE lot longer.
This game has been balanced around survivors running at 100% movement speed. All of the tiles are designed with that speed in mind. Giving survivors a movement speed boost that can last the entire game causes a number of these loops to just become unmanagable for M1 killers. Sure, they'll eventually be able to catch up due to window blockers and Bloodlust. But by the time it happens, all of the generators have popped and the game is as good as over.
Another point I see brought up a lot to defend the 3% of MFT, is other Haste perks like Dark Theory or Blood Pact. At first, it seems only logical that if MFT is overtuned these perks must be too. But there's a big difference between them. Dark Theory and Blood Pact grant Haste under strict conditions:
- Dark Theory has to be set up, which wastes survivors' time. Moreover, The Haste effect only applies in a relatively small radius, and the killer can disable it -- forcing survivors to sink more time into searching for and blessing totems if they want the Haste effect again.
- Blood Pact has a niche activation requirement. Someone needs to get injured, lose the killer, find their partner, heal and then stay within 16 metres of each other. That means to get value out of the perk, two survivors have to stay grouped up and get chased together -- which is terribly inefficient.
Compare that to MFT where the only activation requirements are:
- Running,
- and being injured.
Both of which are normal occurences in a chase. There's no requirement to go out of your way to get the perk. It's just there, passively, for the whole game.
In my opinion, MFT is a disaster of a perk that should've never been released. The fact it's now taken over 5 months to rectify is unacceptable really. Playing an M1 killer in the current "4 chase perks" meta is like trying to ride a bicycle with square wheels.
the counter-play to any strong perk is not another perk. it is letting user use the perk and downing the survivor despite the perk being active.
@jesterkind said:
(In my opinion, of course!)
So, we'll start with getting the pure balance changes out of the way, and then we'll move on to a few other elements I think will push MFT into a much healthier niche than it currently occupies:
- Remove the Endurance. I think it's relatively uncontroversial to say that, even though it comes into play less frequently, Made For This having the Endurance effect as a secondary element of its design makes things overtuned. It's not necessary for an already strong perk to have this as a secondary effect, so just straight up remove it. Put it on another perk, maybe; I don't think it's strong enough to be a perk all on its own, but pairing it with a weaker primary effect would work.
- Prevent stacking. Whether this is a survivor-role-wide change to prevent Haste stacking at all, or just a stipulation for Made For This specifically, it should be obvious that pairing MFT with other sources of sustained Haste (most notably Hope, but not exclusively) makes things spiral out of control. If it's the former, MFT should increase your running speed while injured (and not Exhausted) up to 3%, depending on whether you currently have a Haste effect. If what you have is lower than 3% (like Dark Theory), it's raised up to 3%. If it's higher, that higher number applies and MFT doesn't.
Those changes would bring this perk into line, at least in terms of numbers and theory, but I think an additional change should be made to help bring it into line in terms of actual game experience.
- Give survivors under the effect of MFT a unique running animation. Largely inspired by the (admittedly very brief) visual tell for Dramaturgy, I think that survivors who have MFT equipped (and are affected by it, so this would disable while Exhausted and/or healthy, for instance) should have a visual tell so the killer knows to play around it. Holding their arms differently, or something, I'm not a visual designer.
With that, I think the perk would be healthy. A lot of people would drop it anyway because any nerf is seen as killing a perk (looking at you, Iron Will and Circle of Healing), but even disregarding that it'd make the perk actually healthier.
i do not see them removing haste stacking because it invalids using perk synergy together. Hope is end game perk design increase escape rates in the end game. it is very similar adrenaline in the sense that if you chase survivors with hope, survivor can waste so much time that they can heal in end game then bodyblock for person who has Hope. A perk that does that exact effect is Adrenaline and it is arguably more annoying to play against then Hope because that exact situation happens way quicker.
I have theory to why perk has endurance. for some reason, the dev wanted the perk to have an endurance trigger condition to synergize 3% haste on-hit SB effect. the idea is that when you hit a healthy survivor, MFT makes take longer to catch-up like a reverse rapid brutality perk. either way, I don't really encounter this effect very often in my killer games. the killer that do complain about the perk exclusively talk about haste effect like @OnryosTapeRentals and nothing else. removing secondary effect will not change complaints of said perk. killer dislike this perk for same reason they dislike original DH and Decisive strike. It is strong anti-tunnel perk that can make you lose the match if you over-chase that scales on survivor's skill-level in chase. I do not think there is any solution to the problem. survivors want a competitive perk that empowers their skill-level in chases so they can 1vs1 the killer but killer dislike the perk because of extend chases for what @OnryosTapeRentals is describing. survivors direct interest is to survive. killer's interest is obviously to kill.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564673#Comment_3564673
It's not worth it, because while it's possible, any exhaustion+MFT combination will yield more value (with DH being the strongest synergy). Your statement was "it can't be done". I'm simply stating that it can, indeed, be done. And MFT can absolutely be used with an exhaustion perk to provide a second, second chance. MFT on its own without an exhaustion perk is problematic. MFT with DH is just an insult. MFT with DH+Resi+Hope spread across 4 different survivors with genrush boxes and a map offering is what killers have had to deal with lately.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NATONZVWRZV6/untitled.png
Squads like this are already extremely tough for a low tier killer to deal with. MFT just makes this an impossible situation to win.
And no, it's not like No Mither Self Care, because No Mither makes it IMPOSSIBLE to use Self Care. SB+MFT can be used together, it just requires a lot of baby sitting, and is suboptimal, but it's DOABLE. They're not mutually exclusive.
i see 2 med-kits with over-time instant heal and one guy with stypic needle. not 4 toolboxes like you describe. none of your survivors have MFT+Sprint burst. your first post I have ever seen complain about SB+MFT. i was just wondering if you run this as your survivor build.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562400#Comment_3562400
Slugging for pressure is normal gameplay.
4 man slugging is not until bleedout is not.
what makes you say that? is 3 man slugging also not normal gameplay? 4 man slugging is not normal to you because nobody does 4 man slugging gameplay. this is because if you just randomly down everyone, it will take an eternity for any survivor to die. that is why nobody dares to do that. killer only dare to consider slugging as strategy when it is 3 or less people. that is because they're not playing to bleed out. they're playing to down everyone then hook everyone. that kinda cements that slugging is not that threatening unless your on verge of winning. Most killer state that once you are in a 3vs1, you are more then likely to close out the match in most instances.
@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562233#Comment_3562233
I dont know if we should call slugging abnormal gameplay. Breaking it down survivors are still able to play a normal match involving stealth, chases, saves and even death. The only normal aspect removed is the limitations of chances before elimination with oppurtunities only increasing with good teamwork.
I agree with your post. the gameplay of hooks and slugging is not really that different.
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564436#Comment_3564436
She gets haste and undetectable for a couple seconds after placing a drone.
only undetectable for 8 seconds. haste only occurs if survivor gets hit by red lasers.
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@jesterkind said:
(In my opinion, of course!)
So, we'll start with getting the pure balance changes out of the way, and then we'll move on to a few other elements I think will push MFT into a much healthier niche than it currently occupies:
- Remove the Endurance. I think it's relatively uncontroversial to say that, even though it comes into play less frequently, Made For This having the Endurance effect as a secondary element of its design makes things overtuned. It's not necessary for an already strong perk to have this as a secondary effect, so just straight up remove it. Put it on another perk, maybe; I don't think it's strong enough to be a perk all on its own, but pairing it with a weaker primary effect would work.
- Prevent stacking. Whether this is a survivor-role-wide change to prevent Haste stacking at all, or just a stipulation for Made For This specifically, it should be obvious that pairing MFT with other sources of sustained Haste (most notably Hope, but not exclusively) makes things spiral out of control. If it's the former, MFT should increase your running speed while injured (and not Exhausted) up to 3%, depending on whether you currently have a Haste effect. If what you have is lower than 3% (like Dark Theory), it's raised up to 3%. If it's higher, that higher number applies and MFT doesn't.
Those changes would bring this perk into line, at least in terms of numbers and theory, but I think an additional change should be made to help bring it into line in terms of actual game experience.
- Give survivors under the effect of MFT a unique running animation. Largely inspired by the (admittedly very brief) visual tell for Dramaturgy, I think that survivors who have MFT equipped (and are affected by it, so this would disable while Exhausted and/or healthy, for instance) should have a visual tell so the killer knows to play around it. Holding their arms differently, or something, I'm not a visual designer.
With that, I think the perk would be healthy. A lot of people would drop it anyway because any nerf is seen as killing a perk (looking at you, Iron Will and Circle of Healing), but even disregarding that it'd make the perk actually healthier.
MFT: The perk is so powerful that I cannot tell whether the survivor is using it so you need unique running animation.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564549#Comment_3564549
Tell me you don't know what a true 99 looks like without telling me.
I do not see survivors running Sprint burst +MFT. your complaint is like complaining that self-care+no mither is too strong.
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@zarr said:
She is still much too effective at 3-genning, it's only that rather than holding the game hostage, she can now actually win fairly fast by doing so. Which is an improvement in terms of the playing experience insofar you get out of the match more quickly, but it still makes for a rather boring, frustrating gameplay loop that is also much too strong for how mindless and skillless it is to execute.
BHVR thought that with drones not doing anything to stationary survivors, they couldn't be used to defend generators effectively. But survivors have to move to get to and away from gens, which will inevitably build lock-on. Sure you can stand still and crouch to avoid detection, but not only will this be a huge timesink, but it is impossible if Merchant is around. The minimum distance between drones also seems to not be working properly, she can have drone zones overlap with one another. And she still gets Undetectable and info on survivor locations. What this means is that if she drones the hell out of a 3-gen cluster and keeps patrolling it, survivors will inevitably and constantly be injured, deep-wounded, broken, Hindred, while she will be Undetectable and have Haste. She gets free downs galore out of this, and can combine this with a build such as Jolt, Eruption, Weasel and Overcharge, for which she still has Shotgun Speakers and Adi Valente. A non-coordinated (non-voice-comm-SWF) group of survivors will die to this every time if the 3-gen setup is even just halfway decent for the killer.
I will admit that there are still a fair few things I don't understand about Merchant because I simply haven't bothered playing and learning her, there is nothing redeeming about her design to me, gameplay and otherwise. Can she recall deactivated drones? What does "survivors detected by drones are trackable by the radar" mean exactly, and how does this relate to her Haste effect? Can she place a drone next to a deactivated drone, or one that is being hacked? Do drones really deactivate if she "walks underneath them", and if so, how close does she have to be, and for how long do they deactivate? Is the 3-second scan immunity after being scanned actually working properly? How are drone zones overlapping if the minimum distance between drones is supposedly 16m, with their scan radius being 10m?
But regardless, even if all of those things are working properly and as intended, holding a 3-gen still appears much too effective. Even if she can't recall deactivated drones, she has 6 for 3 gens. Patrolling her gens, she will also regularly interrupt survivors attempting to hack drones, which means more free injures, deep wounds, downs. And the 45-second deactivation time may not actually even be all that prohibitive to the idea of constantly having active drones on her gens, when spread between 3 gens and 6 drones, with survivors only intermittently (if at all) being able or safe to hack any.
I guess I will play a scrim sometime to try and figure out if you can actually "out-hack" a 3-genning Merchant. That still wouldn't mean much of anything for non-SWF groups however, and ultimately still wouldn't make me like this killer any better. She just has very little skill expression, little to no interesting interactions with her ability, and still the same propensity to oppressive "area control".
I hope the thing BHVR is allegedly "working on" to alleviate the 3-gen issue globally is coming soon (so in BHVR terms, at least within the next year...).
Edit: I have now learned that she can in fact recall deactivated drones. That serves to make her 3-gen potency all the more oppressive and is actually the first thing I would change about her.
I have now learned that she can in fact recall deactivated drones. That serves to make her 3-gen potency all the more oppressive and is actually the first thing I would change about her.
she had a cooldown in recalling them in PTB. it was bad because it punished her for actively chasing survivors and playing the killer. the killer camping 3 gens is map issue and game foundation problem. skull merchant is now chasing trap killer so stop blaming 3 gens on skull merchant.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564473#Comment_3564473
You absolutely can use MFT with exhaustjon perks (to include SB). SB needs a true 99 and you can't stop running but it's doable.
20% distance on every meter isn't just lag advantage, it's a massive advantage. Just the same way Resi isn't only good for lag, it turns certain pallets into god pallets as well as let you react slower to vaults (especially mid vaults).
It's already been shown a dozen ways how not every killer has a way to counter MFT, and in fact, most of them that can "coumter" it simply play around it, but ok.
Haste stacking is fine, MFT is not. If there's problem with other haste perks, then nerf those as well.
your post makes no sense. a 99% SB = Exhausted. you cannot use MFT when you are exhausted. the only perk where MFT does work with exhaustion is DH. DH is only perk to work with MFT because it is only exhaustion perk that triggers at very end of the chase. when DH does trigger, DH disables MFT. I thought about writing post in regards to why resilience is an overrated perk for vault speed but it took 2 paragraph so I decided to skip it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564042#Comment_3564042
I don't know. I'd probably try to make the Drones into mobile area denial. Like, they slowly move in a straight line. There's just really not a good way to salvage such a bad design.
And yes, there are plenty of Killers who have the same leave loop or die interaction. It's still not good design.
sounds like nemesis with 6 zombies drones. that is way too random.
what kind of interaction are you expecting in chases when vsing killer? greed loop and pallet break? I do not think every loop is an immediate die interaction. she has area denial parts that incentives linking pallets together to delay lock-on stacks and extend chase but the area denial tool is not as clear cut as say walking into a trapper trap or triggering a hag phantasm. there is some room for outplay and chase extension to some degree.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563524#Comment_3563524
Let's maybe not encourage that kinda gameplay
why not? it works perfectly with forced hesitation perk.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564003#Comment_3564003
Sorry but 3-gen playstiles have never been a problem for me. The problem is Skull Merchant 3-genning, and only this. Buffing potential energy will be a mistake, as would make every other killer worse just because of her.
As i've said, i've faced some SM playing 3-gen playstiles and it was very hard to beat: she spooked us out of her gens, waited until one of us took a claw trap, and then chased. If felt very cheap, as the SM in question was missing hits, falling for 360 and fov techs and many other things. In the end, she won not because a good dominance of her killer, but because her cheap tactics worked.
Maybe its because SM just changed and we are learning how to counter her - and some players are taking advantage of no one really knowing how to face her now - but i think the devs should monitore this killer closely as it can become a problematic killer again.
the counter-play is same as old one. Hens has youtube video where he showcases 40 minutes of beating old skull merchants with 3 gen type play-styles.
The problem is Skull Merchant 3-genning, and only this. Buffing potential energy will be a mistake, as would make every other killer worse just because of her.
Buffing the perk in my opinion just means that survivor does not need to learn how to play against strategy. they can just take a gen that on other side of the map. go to it, charge potencial energy. go to a gen, insert 20% free progression and keep doing that until survivor finish gen to 100%. If you really struggle, you can use 4 BNP on 3 gen. I have not checked what record time of completing a gen is but I imagine it is less then 15 seconds.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562720#Comment_3562720
Poor drone placement: right next to a gen. If you put a drone into a strong loop - like a jungle gym or something like that - at least the survivor have to spend some time going out of their way to break a drone. Now, SM can drop a drone next to a gen, wait for it to be broken, recall it and put it again.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562836#Comment_3562836
She is still good at 3-genning. If you break her drones, she can comeback and put then again; if you ignore them, she can use her basekit stealth to aproach, eventually making you broken when running away from the drones.
There is a guy in my server doing streaks with her using a 3-gen build, and he already achieved 50 wins. Its not about just not knowing how to counter her, but she has the same "Sadako Rework" problem: with little effort SM can create high amounts of pressure
Its less than a week before her rework, but i still think she needs some changes, or at least a more clearer counterplay.
perhaps you should learn to counter 3 gen killer play-styles. disabling drones takes as much time as her setting them and kicking gens then walking to another gen. all that time can be spent on doing another gen across map and survivor can also co-op 2 gens at once at same time as this is all happening. Putting drones back accomplishes nothing for skull merchant. like @Xernoton stated, you can always chip generator progression on every killer as long you do not go down and trigger any regression perks or fail the easy skill-checks.
The problem is: the cumulative damage eventually will get you broken and she will get a speed boost, making survivor easy prey to her power. And its worse than before, because at least you could deny her power getting a claw trap; now getting a claw trap only makes her stronger and you weaker. Combine this with the oblivious addon and you have the perfect recipe for a mess.
there is no reason to take any cumulative damage with how crouch walking eliminates any drone threat.
If 3 gens is such difficult play-style to counter, they might end up buffing Potential Energy perk so it becomes super easy to break 3 gens. I saw somewhere recently that they are thinking of improving Potential Energy.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563451#Comment_3563451
Pre-nerfed? Septic Touch never got any changes.
no I am saying that i would not be surprised if original septic touch design before PTB of dredge involved oblivious and was changed as result of being "too oppressive". your version of the perk makes so much more sense then current version of that perk.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/393948/skull-merchant-rework-is-success
I'm glad that she isn't a 3-Gen holding nightmare anymore, but in my honest opinion...
- She isn't fun to play against. ❌
- She isn't fun to play as. ❌
- Her chase music is still a repetitive nightmare. ❌
I'm glad that people find her quite fun or passable now, but I personally still cannot find the appeal in playing against or as her.
What I wished they did instead of the drones being more chase oriented is focus more on her pockets of stealth, but it's ok, she just isn't my type of Killer haha.
she has perma stealth if she uses adaptive lighter and low-powered mode. your request for pocket stealth is exactly what she has now. my main gripes on her is expired batteries having a -50% claw trap negative. I wish the negative was just a bit less severe...
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I would rework it to be something like whenever a survivor is put into dying state, they bleed out 5%/10%/15% faster.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563183#Comment_3563183
Tracking was her big thing before the rework, but now most of the time you're not going to have anyone tracked. Her entire power is now centered on whether or not you can get a clawtrap on someone, but they only get them by being locked on after being scanned 3 times. It's relatively easily to completely avoid being scanned when not in a chase and it takes fair amount of time to get someone locked on.
any chance you think BVHR will improve skull merchant a tiny bit more? one aspect that I find baffling is that I am given opportunity to min-max her drone rays by switching direction to get faster lock-on traps but than there is 3 second immunity to not be able to do that. It is like. here's mechanic to showcase greater mechanic expertise in using the drones rays more effectively but here's another mechanic to prevent you from doing that.
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terminus should be that every survivor that is broken in end game, you gain 2% haste status effect up to a total of 8%. I could imagine BFF Legion with NOED+Terminus moving sonic speed. the undefeatable end game legion build.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563211#Comment_3563211
I don't know. Even without a Terror Radius requirement, the chances of interrupting a heal are a lot less than interrupting Generator repairs. It would only be marginally more useful on a handful of killers anyway.
Fearmonger will always be leagues more useful, as it applies Exhaustion more often and in a more useful context.
it seems the idea is to nurse calling+septic touch. that does make more sense considering dredge is stealth killer but he is only stealth killer half the time. your perk sounds like pre-nerfed version of the perk. I would not be surprised if septic touch was oblivious+exhausted instead of blindness+exhausted. I can imagine that a lot of killer perks just get slam nerfed pre-launch to be useless just like current version.