Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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purple tonic in this post is wesker's infection. clown is all about burst, on demand speed. The over-time hindered and over-time speed boost killers are Wesker & Skull merchant respectively. clown has his own identity and place.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692208#Comment_3692208
Something. Anything useful I agree
haste would be better in my opinion. Maybe you get 50% haste whenever you are invisible.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692150#Comment_3692150
I also wanted to push his movement speed while raising knives EVEN LOWER than the 6 knife 4.4 version, I love the "punish window" that Huntress has when she misses her Hatchet because the Survivors can use this opportunity to find better cover but it also comes with Huntress having better instantaneous damage than Trickster, I personally feel we've lost the entire sight of this mold and Trickster doesn't feel like he mimics this extremely enjoyable gameplay loop at all anymore.
The current version is so disappointing but bringing him back to a fun ranged experience takes work, I've made a ton of changes to the base-kit that shouldn't be overlooked, movement speed is very touchy on Trickster so you cannot simply nerf the "raised knife" movement speed by .8 meters per second at highest ramp without a notable tradeoff, a tradeoff that I think would pay off in gameplay enjoyment significantly on the Trickster's end (because he feels rewarded for being accurate at mid ranges as well as close) and on the Survivors end because if you force the Trickster to miss or make a good read, you are rewarded with distance and feel you can get away if you make the clutch play.trickster is inherent not suppose to be about burst damage. he's chip damage. damage over time. many have assimilated this as ranged legion that inevitable downs you however dev have tried to put a "healing" over-time mechanic in his kit.
I agree that modern day Trickster feels agonizing to play against, hehas this issue where he has PTB Huntress movement speed where he can sit on your back for around 3 loops around shack. I am seeking to solve this "No point to do anything in chase" style, because I find it bogs down his enjoyment factor on both sides.
The Survivor feels they explode and cannot meaningfully get anything from forcing the Trickster to miss
In many instances of trickster, they have tried to lower his laceration timer from 15→10 seconds to reward survivor for LOS his knives but in every instance, the change was always reverted. part of that is that he did not feel powerful enough to warrant healing in the chase.
I sought to nerf it and roll some of that into the base-kit (yet another nerf i'm adding that is not small to make way for better 4 v 1 pressure).
trickster already has good 4vs1 pressure. His main event is an extreme integral part of his map pressure because it allows him to slug survivors and get muti-downs. By slugging survivors and getting muti-down at key opportune moments, he can slow gen down by keeping survivors on the floor. He doesn't have any defence or secondary objective mechanic but he can build his own game-delay. Nuking his main event is nuking 4vs1 map presence.
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@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692064#Comment_3692064
This change unfortunately does not address any concerns both me and Wacek (who agrees with my assessment) have with the current Trickster, and makes him more addon dependent. There was a version of Trickster back in the day that had Yumi's murder (Melodious Murder as it's called today) as a -1 to laceration meter addon, this addon was awful and required for the same reasons modern day memento blades is.
Core-kit problems need Core-kit solutions, Melodious murder going back to a previous version that they already found an issue with in the past (because it was mandatory for good feeling gameplay and allowed for little addon diversity) does not feel good and doesn't attempt to solve an over dependence on Bamboozle for window vaults which every long playtime Trickster feels forced to run against players who are skilled at combating Trickster.
Wacek is my peer, I always try to involve him, Endzej, Gorbo, Brandon (Worstdwight) and the other Trickster mains in my takes when given the chance. We've always wanted base-kit solutions to Tricksters dependency on a select few playstyles. My post seeks to alleviate those concerns without making Trickster overwhelming in chase and also give a swath of addons that can now be played with because they do not largely fiddle with the base-kit without sizeable downside if high impact.
Thanks for commenting on the post and giving your thoughts - Revvium <3In the ptb, he used to have memento blade base-kit. it was a slightly better. i believe it was 0.25 fire-rate. Idk, survivors complained he was too strong. Now he has slightly worse version that is 0.27 fire-rate with add-on. we settled with trickster that is slightly add-on dependent.
My thoughts is that killer have certain base identity and you can manipulate strengths of your identity through add-on's. my point contention with making memento blade/Melicious murder base-kit is that trickster can run add-on's like tequila+waiting watch for you or like trick blade+iri photo card on top of said base-kit. your suppose to be choosing what points of strength you want to focus on with add-on's. Not just have all add-on's base-kit.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692051#Comment_3692051
Ahh okay, my bad. I could’ve sworn I saw this on One Pump Willie’s Channel. Anywho, I still think it would be a neat suggestion.
I am just bummed she’s incomplete. They’re are still so many things wrong with her.
yeah unfortunate. their schedule suggests that they're reworking freddy and Myer's but no outline for what is changing. I do think sadako will rework/revisited but I have feeling that it won't be till June 2025. Maybe if you keep making posts from now till dec, changes show up sooner but I don't know.
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this is way too complicated. a more simple fix is
Melodious Murder: Decreases the survivors laceration capacity by -1.
Now you can use Melodious Murder to have 7 knives which is close to 6 knives for old trickster. They have still yet to fixed memento blade animations. throwing animation has been bugged with this add-on. they have yet to fix it.
I think trickster is fine. I play a lot. he's my favourite ranged killer. His memento blades having a bugged animation is my main grip on him. I think other complaint that Wackey has about new trickster is that you cannot punish animation locks. If you had Melodious Murder+Memento blades(without animation bugs), this could be play-style for trickster that revolves around using two add-on for animation locks. Other than relying on main event for animation locks to punish animation locks, he plays fine.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692029#Comment_3692029
The current ring drawing was Basekit in the PTB as soon as they changed her from 2.0 to the PTB version. Not the PTB version after the Devs received a bit of negative feedback from her changes.
nope. you can check patch notes. the only changes were stack lock from infinity to 2 stacks(now 3 stacks) and cooldown for tv tp spamming which was removed. there was never any punishment for carrying the tapes for 3.0 sadako. Just free counter with no negatives.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692029#Comment_3692029
When/where did they say she is going to get reverted. The only thing I heard before the last rework was she will be closer to the original version.
Honestly it would be cool to get the slugging ring drawing and old iri tape back.
in Q&A, it was said that Sadako would play closer to her original version. Part of made her play closer to her original iteration was this add-on.
I don't want to be begging for revert every day but the changes to Sadako are anti-fun :(
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Increases invigoration effect of yellow bottles by 3%.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Ring drawing unfortunately is pretty weak now.
My suggestion - Give ring drawing its previous function. Make the current function base kit like it was on the PTB.
You previously made ring drawing so it wouldn’t give survivors condemn upon pickup. (Healthy change) however why, change it to make it weaker?(1 of several issues with current Sadako.)
Thank you for listening :)the current ring drawing was not base-kit in the ptb. it was always gain 1 stack of condemn for tapes. not a good add-on. spreading condemn through healing is a lot more lore accurate.
they said that sadako is supposed to be reverted but where is add-on revert on this add-on?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691607#Comment_3691607
Blight's power allowing him to slide was in fact, not intended for a long time. It was labelled as a bug for years.
both of tech are related killer hitbox detection. they fixed killer detection which allowed killer to get an advantage.
where is survivor hitbox detection fix where survivor get an advantage?
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they should keep cheap gin bottle at +2 bottle capacity and make soda grant +3% m/s speed invigoration. that way, both add-on have unique effects.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Unlike Billy, Blight or Demo, you're supposed to be able to crouch to dodge his power.
His hitbox comes from the top down, so if you crouch behind something, it won't hit.
blight's power allowed him to slide and this was also intended due to how the collision hit detection. blight detection is getting fixed. it is only fair to fix killer detection's.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690759#Comment_3690759
Boons create a secondary objective for the killer though. If they are too strong, the reality is, that the value survivors gain from them is more than the value it takes for them to place the boon and that's not even factoring in the time the killer spends getting rid of it.
You have to know where the boon is, spend time walking over to it, then "fiddle" around because the prompt is so finnicky you end up fiddling with it for 2-3 seconds before you get it to come up, then you need to stomp it which takes 1 second.
In total, even if you knew exactly where the boon is, you are probably spending at least 15-20 seconds removing the boon, but now factor in that survivor time is multiplied by 4 and you see the problem.
I would say boons need a complete rework:
- Make boons map wide (yes map wide)
- Killer now sees the aura of boons when within 24 meters of them (similar to noed).
- Killer now gets a notification showing WHAT boon the survivors have put up (just like hexes for survivors)
- Boons now have 5 tokens on them, you spend 1 token to bless a totem
- Blessing over a hex totem spends 2 tokens.
- Blessing a hex now takes the same amount of time as normally cleansing a hex
- When the killer breaks a boon it breaks the totem (creates synergy with pentimento)
- Survivors can "build" and bless a totem that is broken by spending 2x the time. (but still 1 token)
- Fix the prompt/hitbox of it so the killer can just be roughly close to it and you "lock onto" the totem like how the current "pallet vacuum" works (yes i know current pallets are nothing like old pallet vacuum, but they do a little bit, you know what i mean)
With all of that, boons would now be in a much better state to be strong. The amount of time it takes the killer to remove the boon is roughly equal to the amount of time it takes the survivor to do it (because they generally know where it is) Boons aren't effectively permanent (survivors can't just have them up all the time and keep setting them up). Killers can now break the totem completely which forces the survivor to spend more time to redo the blessing if they can't find another totem or if its in a spot far away from gens for example. And it creates synergy with pentimento. Boons are now map wide so you don't have to worry about radius.
Also yes, this means that technically, a survivor can avoid spending 2 tokens blessing over a a hex by breaking the hex and then building a boon, but that is intentional, because they can take 15 seconds to cleanse the hex and bless the totem for 2 tokens, or they can spend 1 token, but spend 45 seconds doing that, during which the killer knows they just cleansed a hex there and didn't put a boon up, making it quite risky.
Now they can go and buff the various strengths of the boons (not COH though) and they will be in a much better state for both sides i think.
The problem right now is boons should work like hexes. High risk, high reward. You spend a lot of time getting them setup (that is the risk) but they are strong, but if the killer keeps breaking them, you lose your perk forever. But right now they are like the opposite of hexes. They are perks that you have to setup, but can do so an infinite number of times, and thus they are weak.
Boons create a secondary objective for the killer though. If they are too strong, the reality is, that the value survivors gain from them is more than the value it takes for them to place the boon and that's not even factoring in the time the killer spends getting rid of it.
that is one my points that I was talking to blueberry. You don't need cleanse boon to win the match. cleansing the boon is suppose to be low cost investment from killer.
The problem right now is boons should work like hexes. High risk, high reward. You spend a lot of time getting them setup (that is the risk) but they are strong, but if the killer keeps breaking them, you lose your perk forever. But right now they are like the opposite of hexes. They are perks that you have to setup, but can do so an infinite number of times, and thus they are weak.
boon are not meant to be high risk, high reward. they're meant to be mild risk for mild reward. I like to compared to scourge hook perks where you invest time to get a situational effect that might come into play at some point the match. For killer, it is more like extra walk time to get to specific hooks to activate an effect although risk is that sometimes survivor can bodyblock you and you wiggle off or cursed hook are in like a very bad spot. Your not going to equip saboteur as survivor and just sabo hooks to prevent killer from using SC. Virtually nobody on killer is going equip shattered hope and go boon hunting to destroy boons. that concept is just silly.
A boon is suppose to be that i put a totem down and maybe if killer hooks someone with bbq and you happen to near shadowstep, the perk does something. It is like this random reward. right now, the odds of getting value from a boon is too impractical. the area is just too small. It is like having 1 scourge hook spawn instead of 4 scourge hook spawns.
The perks that your talking about which are going be high risk, high reward, game-changing effects are new set of perks called invocation perks. these perks are…. scary to put it mildly. You spend 2 minutes time to channel this ultimate ability and supposedly… when you finished changeling this ultimate ability, you get some game-changing instant-win effect. These perk apparently have "drawbacks" to make them "high risk" but I cannot imagine the negatives being too great. either way, the mechanic is in its infancy. I have no clue what kind of game-changing effects are going come from these perks but I cannot see anything positive for killer coming from this mechanic.
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after 6 months since trickster rework. they still have not fixed memento blade's animations. please make memento blade's animations match his throwing knife speed. It is only annoying aspect of playing trickster.
The trickster is fun to play with memento blade's but the animation needs fixing. Base throwing mode feels underwhelming without memento blade's but animation feels awful when using said add-on.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691109#Comment_3691109
Did you try to aim your bottles at the Survivor?
the way i play clown is I use triple bottle setup. I throw 1 yellow, then setup 2 pink bottles at loops so that survivor is slowed for the entire loop. the pink bottle duration is too short. The extra bottles allowed me to spam bottles and keep hindered debuff on my opponent while timing my speed boosts at critical moments.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691097#Comment_3691097
No it’s 5 seconds and trust me it’s not good at all. You spend 2 seconds recovering from a throw and no one I MEAN NO ONE is gonna use both those add ons except for the first week lol. Shiny Pin is way better and a must run and GC is way better. It will be nowhere near as good as 10 hatchets would be.
duration is too short. if it was 15-30 second like old yew seed, then I would probably use it. 5 second. not enough. not huge loss since like double-wind up is better anyway but whatever. feels bad for clown.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Good that both Killers got their Add Ons changed.
But not so sure about giving Huntress Haste.
what… i still have ammo problems with clown. so I use cheap gin bottle on clown. 3% for clown doesn't seem worth it because he has add-on to increase the duration….. which do same thing but better.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691070#Comment_3691070
3% haste for 5 seconds is almost meaningless. MFT was complained about because it was permanent. And nobody is gonna stack double haste again because GC/ SP. I like the concept but you won’t see it, probably at all besides the first week. But I really love the idea of her getting excited and filled with bloodlust when hitting a survivor. It’s very awesome and thematic.
no, 5% haste is rapid brutality for huntress. that might be stronger then 10 hatchets because huntress already has like 8 stacks of stbfl base-kit. I wonder if it will be for 30 second duration like old Yew seed add-on.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690759#Comment_3690759
Breaking everything down to they all give value to the team is a bit disingenuous. So what if we made DS give its effect to all survivors if just one person ran it? Both are giving value to the whole team? Hyperbolic but the point is the “amount” of value given to the team per perk slot. There’s a difference between giving the whole team value from one person running it and the whole team getting the perk from one person running it.
Yes secondary objectives would be good for survivors. Calling lighting boom a secondary objective though is like calling following the killer around for head on plays a secondary objective. True, but a stretching of the phrase. Plus as we said, everyone’s not lighting booms, it’s one person.
A true secondary objective would be like if NOED was base kit so people were required to do totems. Or if they added parts you had to apply to a gen.
your going over hypothetical perk that do not exist. I am saying that the boon perk slots cost the slot of the individual using. for example, if 1 person runs 4 boons, that player is perkless because all their perks are often not the most useful perks on a selfish level. selfish perks are often superior because they provide value indirectly value to the team.
it is like comparing Dwight leader perk vs Claudette Botany knowledge perk. In theory, Leader gives entire team 25% healing for total of 75% healing increase but in practice, the selfish botany knowledge perk is more useful then Leader.
Plus as we said, everyone’s not lighting booms, it’s one person.
One person not doing generators is an early game 3vs1. booning right now is practically throwing the game. It is like giving killer 15-30 seconds of free incapacitated debuff over and over. the killer spends a negligent amount of time to remove the boon and in many cases, they have no reason to cleanse the boon because whatever boon is doing is nothing or irrelevant. Now a days, Booning is only used for bp farming. you can farm boldness BP by finding 2 totems and re-booning to max out boldness category.
A true secondary objective would be like if NOED was base kit so people were required to do totems. Or if they added parts you had to apply to a gen.
A secondary objective is an objective that is not repairing a generator. Secondary objectives do not need to be 100% killer sided. A survivor is more inclined to do said objective if said objective provides a benefit for them completing the objective. Otherwise the secondary objective will be ignored. Chests are great example of secondary objective but barely anyone is doing them because rewards are irrelevant.
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@Blueberry said:
I kinda like this idea too. Obviously for it to work we’d have to balance the game around 9 hooks so killers would need significant buffs but given no one could be tunneled out, literally, that seems reasonable.
i would like to see this as ptb or as one of those event modifiers like Light out. I am very curious to how the game would play out.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690700#Comment_3690700
So if we're working around the assumption we're going to leave it up, you're cool with leaving a 36 meter boon up with them just using it all game? Really?
"Survivors still need to equip those perks and those perk are competing with second-chance perks. "
This would be a valid argument if it wasn't only 1 survivor giving it to the entire team. So yes, I could see the trade off if each survivor was having to run them, but it's only 1 giving up for the entire team and you don't know which one that is to capitalize on it.
a common sentiment that has been around in the game for a long time is that survivor need secondary objectives. Boon are secondary objective for survivor. they give the survivor another objective to do but nobody is bothering to do said secondary objective right now.
all the survivor perk benefit the entire team indirectly. take lithe for example. a survivor pressing lithe and running forward is going extend their chase by some seconds. every second that they extend with the chase is more time given for the team to do gens. Decisive strike when it triggers does benefit one person but the effect that it has is that it extends chase time of that one person giving more time to do gens. the vast majority of perks directly or indirectly benefit the team. Boons are no different in that regard. they cost perk slots just as much as any other individual perk to bring value to the team.
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@Blueberry said:
Boons are kind of flawed in concept. They waste more of the killers time to go out of his way to snuff than it's wastes of the survivors time placing it (1 killer second is x3 or 4 seconds to the survivors). So you want the killer to waste time snuffing over and over, rather than snuffing being an "actual" counter play to them.
So yes I'd be down for buffing boons overall, but there would need to be more changes to them as well so that it's less detrimental to the killer snuffing them or much more time wasting for the survivors placing them. I'd personally like if the Shattered Hope effect was base kit for crushing them. Then we can feel free to buff nicely as they're a limited resource and not endless.
People also tend to forgot that it's one perk slot for four people, there is inherently a lot of value in that. By this I mean the perk should be weaker than a perk that does something similar but is only for that survivor since this one is for everyone and one perk slot used instead of each survivor using a slot.
the killer doesn't need to go out of their way to snuff the boon. perks are not meant to have counter-play on other side. they're meant to be drawback that other side can win against. currently the boon radius is too small for those perks to have any impact on the match. I would like to see them get buffed by +12 meters for a total of 36 meters.
Survivors still need to equip those perks and those perk are competing with second-chance perks.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690521#Comment_3690521
Gen regression perks are already dominant, why in the world would making old Call of Brine basekit be a good idea? Gen kick meta should never, ever come back. It is the pinnacle of stale gameplay.
part of the reason why they're dominate is because killer base kit regression is awful. perhaps you should explain why having higher base regression is a bad idea? gen-kick meta was not inherently bad but endlessly stalling the game was not healthy. the games took too long and war of attrition was too difficult on certain maps with close gen spawn.
By no means was any gen-setup unbreakable but the effort to win the match as survivor was disproportionate to effort required for killer to kick gens and drag game on. Now that this gameplay is limited to 8 gen-kicks, the gen-kick mechanic can be buffed to be more relevant in regular hook-chase-injury gameplay without being overbearing in hyper defensive gameplay styles.
previously, i would been against ever buffing base regression speed but dev went ahead and did that anyway through perks. Now I think it is fine to buff gen regression speed now that kick regression is more limited.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690494#Comment_3690494
Because the gameplay for killers is supposed to be the survivors: chase, hooks, injuries.
There are absolutely players who hyper focus on gens and will take anything as an excuse to go back to incessant gen defense. It's the same reason that just nerfing Eruption didn't stop the gen kick meta, and they had to go further with COB and overcharge. (Which, btw, you're arguing that old COB should be base kit, essentially)
Even with the current state of the game, there are players crying about wanting more kicks in a game, or that it should be bypassable if you have 4 or more gens. They still didn't get the message that survivors are the killers objective.
There's zero reason to continue to buff gen kicks. None.
i don't see the harm in rewarding a defensive play-style if the defensive play-style is balanced/winnable.
There are absolutely players who hyper focus on gens and will take anything as an excuse to go back to incessant gen defense.
so? let the player do that. The player will eventually lose after they hit 8 regression limit assuming survivor still playing to progress the game.
Because the gameplay for killers is supposed to be the survivors: chase, hooks, injuries.
the gameplay for killer will still be about chases, hooks and injuries. They will just add 1 extra element. kicking gens.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690424#Comment_3690424
Absolutely not.
They've already buffed dry gen kicks three times already, with 2.5%, then 5% chunks, then added anti-gen tapping on top of that.
If anything we should have learned over the past two years is that there are players who absolutely love to play gen kick simulator, and the devs clearly don't want that. Let's not continue to buff gen kicking and head straight back to that kind of play style.
why? the generators are blocked after 8 regression events. all you have to do is exhaust the kicks. what this would benefit is kicking gens outside of 3 gen so i can be rewarded for choosing kick gens.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690424#Comment_3690424
Yeah…no.
Ruin was a strong Perk with 200% Regression, having it baseline would be too much.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690469#Comment_3690469
Yeah, weird opinion, but it would involve nerfing a Killer-Perk, so I get it.
Seriously, it isa) extremely unlikely that it happens anyway that a Survivor is dead before Ruin is cleansed and
b) at this point the Killer is in a VERY good Spot and will most likely win the game. So why make it harder for the remaining Survivors when they will lose anyway?
And well, there are still really good Totem Spawns out there. But of course nobody ever talks about them.it is not baseline. you have to kick the gen to gain benefit. You still have to equip hex:ruin to benefit from said change. I do think ruin needs some nerfs in 3 gens though when defending totem. So I suggest that ruin cleanses itself when 2 gens are remaining.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
They can bring back Ruin. Or just switch the Nerf they have kept. Deactivating Ruin when a Survivor died is a fair and healthy design. Reducing the Regression to 100% is not really good because it makes Ruin quite useless. I think it would be perfect if it is 200% Regression and deactivates once a Survivor is dead.
Iron Will should also make a Comeback. There was not really a need to nerf this Perk in the first place, but if they really want to nerf it, they should just make it inflict perma-Exhaustion to the Survivor. So you have a huge Trade-Off by not being able to use Exhaustion-Perks, but not having any Grunts of Pain.
Those are the Metaperks at least. Obviously they should also revert the Nerf to Calm Spirit (or make it only apply in the Killers Terror Radius, it would make sense lore-wise that the Survivor is more careful when the Killer is nearby, so they are silent, but slower, but there is 0 point in being slow and silent when the Killer is far away… It would also be a neat thing for Stealth-Killers who would have an advantage here).
Also the nerf to Pharmacy should be reverted. Especially with Medkits way weaker than before, there is not really a reason why this Perk should only be useable when injured and not directly available at the start of the Trial.
how about buffing regression rate to 200%? this means that ruin regress gens at 200% and kicking gens become more rewarding.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690116#Comment_3690116
But I did not say to just straight up nerf it.
I suggested disencouraging it.
they're doing opposite. they're buffing DS stun so you can hold-w longer and more effectively. So when you take DS as Pig, you'll get shift-w'd more.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690308#Comment_3690308
It’s not tunnelling if you hook someone else in between.
DS condition is not disabled when you hook someone. DS condition is hooking same person within 60 seconds. In other words, if your progressing your objective too quickly as killer, you get punished.
that is another problem with DS, it is not anti-tunnel, it is anti-momentum. comparable to something like deadlock for killer where you get punished for completing gens too quickly with gen-blocks.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690291#Comment_3690291
No perk should be an instant loss that’s insane. Sometimes even when you aren’t tunnelling you accidentally get DS’d. I’ve been DS’d after hooking a completely different survivor simply because they run into me. It would be really unfair to punish someone so harshly for that.
Yes you are never forced into taking the DS but survivors can still abuse it. You are basically invincible for 60 seconds and can just harass the killer and prevent them from chasing anyone else.Perhaps you should not accidentally get ds'd by not tunneling and take the L.
Yes you are never forced into taking the DS but survivors can still abuse it. You are basically invincible for 60 seconds and can just harass the killer and prevent them from chasing anyone else.
Body blocking killer means that survivor is not on a generator, as a result, the game is 3vs1. They're not invincible. you can slug. one of my dislikes about the game is how survivor do not get punished for "throwing" themselves at you and forcing you to slug. survivor that throw themselves at you should be at risk of bleeding out. Being slugged shouldn't be rewarding action for survivor. I do agree that in that sense, DS has no counter-play because the counter-play dynamic for killer slugging you is weak and pathetic. More of an issue of poor slugging balance then DS.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690278#Comment_3690278
It would also encourage survivors to force the killer to eat the DS. 30 seconds is an instant loss at that point. It’s way too long.
5-10 seconds is more than enough.
no one can force you to take DS. your taking DS at your own discretion. taking a DS should be an instant loss for killer. If it is not an instant loss then i am incentived to power-through DS and tunnel anyway.
That is what DS buff is going to do. it is going make tunneling more popular at the start of the game because if i take early 5 second DS at 3-4 gens, it is not as bad. If i take DS at 1 gen, it is game over. So I am better off tunneling right away to power-through the DS.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690253#Comment_3690253
30 seconds is way too long I feel. I don’t think any killer really needs this draw back aside from Nurse and maybe Blight.
the whole point of DS is to punish killer for tunneling and disincentive killer to take DS. 30 second of no nurse power, no blight power will disincentive said killer from taking DS.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Nurse is already hard to stun so making her lose her tokens when stunned could give some more counter play to good survivors (and have the bonus off making Decisive Strike more punishing for her). I'm all for that change.
I don't think the other killers need it though, especially not Wesker. Maybe Blight could lose some tokens, but I would rather wait and see how his collision changes affect him before nerfing him further.
nurse used to be double-stunned by fatique & stun but nurses complained that stunning was too effective so they nerfed it. i don't think it is that stuns are ineffective rather then the killer null effectiveness of distance gain which the stun is suppose to give distance. This makes all in-chase mobility killers be excellent tunnelers.
Plague for example has a power where when you get corrupted purge, you lose your ability when you are stunned. perhaps OP is suggesting that all killer have their power silenced for 30 seconds when they are stunned.
Silenced == cannot use power.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690141#Comment_3690141
I agree he does have some very overly forgiving hit boxes so I could see that being narrowed a little, that's fair.
"an infection mechanic that gives 8% hindered that doesn't pause while in
chase, literally can cover ground as fast as you can gain on him. "I could see being made healthier, but not a nerf. How would you suggest changing this for the better but not nerfing? Maybe not build while in chase but build even faster out of chase?
"tunnelling play style that a lot of people default to because it's the "easiest" playstyle to play"
I disagree with this perpetuated sentiment in the community that most killers tunnel because it's "easy". I'm sure there are many that do, but that's not the majority. The majority do it because they feel forced to. Most killers would rather not tunnel as it's not as fun, chases are.
all I want for wesker is to be able to vault a pallet or window and use 2nd bound. I'd gladly take no hindered for ability to down survivors at any loop.
What they'll probably end up doing is removing wesker's hug-tech like they're doing with blight.
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@Hexling said:
What if everyones getting all mad and the new animation takes 2 seconds making it actually 3 seconds running time. Since right now its 3 seconds and 1.5 sec running time with the current animation. They already stated its a stabbing animation.
make it 3 second stunning time.
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Victor being able to break pallets and breakable walls is already a killer. that killer is called Demogorgon.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689319#Comment_3689319
that’s understandable completely, but you think Freddy has a low Kilreigh? He’s at almost 60%. 😅
perfect example of how kill-rate /= win-rate.
Combining his 4k and 3k ratio, he wins 50% of the time and loses 50% of the time. He is 10% below expected win-rate of 60/40 while having 60% kill-rate. that is how dev deceive you in thinking that all those killer with high kill-rate are in a "good spot".
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688777#Comment_3688777
Well no, that's not actually a true statement.
For an example. You can just choose not to tunnel at all an avoid it (easy counter), however playing ultra fair like that spreading hooks 1,1,1,1 fashion to avoid it is making you play extremely non efficient. IE the forced non efficient play in order to counter it is what makes it strong.
This is why it's never bad to run all anti tunnel/camp perks. If they activate, they're very strong in punishing them. If they don't activate, this means the killer didn't camp or tunnel, which means you should also be winning since they're playing so non efficient. Win/win scenario. The perks have a stronger effect than just "if they activate". The process of making the killer avoid them is an extreme strength in itself.
that is why some killer were electing to run Ultimate weapon and perks like BBQ/Nowhere to hide so that they could more easily ping-pong survivor 1 & survivor 2 to ignore DS and selectively tunnel.
that is also reason why many survivor run Distortion to counter aura perks to disallow perfect ping pong. Now that ultimate weapon is getting nerfed, the annoying aspect is how I would WANT to run current ultimate weapon to counter decisive strike but CANNOT run ultimate weapon because nerf+distortion countering it.
they're essentially nerfing the counter to decisive strike in same patch they are buffing anti-tunnel thus forcing you to tunnel. The other counter to DS is Slugging… which has its own problems with 4 minute death timers… not hooking a single person entire match just to not trigger DS is impractical counter-play in the current form.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689621#Comment_3689621
Well I don't feel like they'd be able to get into position for that flashbang in time without the aid of Background Player.
imagine a team where 2 people have background player+flashbang and 2 people have for the people+buckle up, then you factor everyone running Decisive strike. You can get games where you get following
You down someone, FTP+Buckle up → You down them again →Hook them.
You chase survivor, down them, you get hit by decisive strike, you down them again, Flashbang+Background player.
Within 1 hook stage, survivor needed to be downed 4 times because they got saved 3 times by the perks. If player selects dead hard, that is another second chance on top of all that. If player selects Med-kit with red syringe, that is another second chance.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Fun Fact: You will probably be able to camp a pallet and kill Victor with it after he hits you
i suspect that will be main gameplay. twins might less fun to play because camping pallet will be new play-style to kill victor. The loss of ability to muti-slug survivor with victor for small reward of 10% haste for 20 second to be m1 Charlotte seems low reward for high loss.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688279#Comment_3688279
Yeah, I'd personally rather keep her chase weak and have the condemn strong as that's more of a unique experience as and against rather than just making her anti loop killer #12. However I agree, if they don't want to do that they should be buffing her chase and stealth significantly. Remove her lullaby so she's an actual stealth killer, significantly improve the disappearance time with manifesting/demanifesting to make it actually usable as a mind game (it's currently a joke and more gimmicky than anything remotely practical), and allow her to walk through pallets while demanifested.
the alternative play-style would be useful vs decisive strike. I agree that unique play-styles are more preferred as long as they are fair to play against.
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gameafoot. make the obsession switch work on any basic attack, not longest person chased.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688514#Comment_3688514
Do you know how much skill it takes to shoot through those holes mid chase and hit someone? That's like .01% of the people playing DS. You also aren't getting a down through those holes, it's a chain break injure. Huntress hatchets are also infinitely easier to land.
"The fact that if even if you break free from his power it still injures
you and put your in mend state which makes 0 sense to me to this day and
time, talk about a ranged version of the Legion. "Except his shots are very hard to land compared to Legion who basically gets it for free.
Is this based on just playing against DS or have you played as him?
he's talking about how you can shoot survivors during any animation lock such as putting down a pallet, vaulting a window or vaulting a pallet and get a free injure.
If you want reward slinger for those type of shots, they should consider removing that tension penalty whenever the gun rope is going through a obstacle.
most slinger use reload add-on's because all his other add-on suck. they have no impact. the only one that has impact is that iri-coin that gives exposed hits. Even then, it is not amazing. slinger needs billy treatment. a revert.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688324#Comment_3688324
I disagree. Because in most cases you simply won't get a down in less than 60 seconds. Especially not when you consider that you need to traverse the map first and most killers have quite a cooldown on their mobility. That might work on Nurse or maybe Blight but for pretty much anyone else, that is not realistic. Personally, I don't see any issue with first delivering Pop and then starting a chase. Yes, that survivor will get a head start but you get some pretty noticeable slowdown out of it.
With good mobility, you can easily catch up though, which negates the downside of giving the survivor extra distance. This again means, that mobility synergises well with the perk. The regression still buys you more time than you need to catch up again on most killers. Much more and often you can switch targets and chase after someone, who does not have as much distance (granted, a Seal Team Six SWF won't let that happen though). The killers that don't make good use of Pop (like Myers and Trapper) typically use different perks, that work better with their powers. Like for example Corrupt Intervention and Deadlock.
I played old version of pop that was 60 seconds. I would say you have to be downing survivors in 60 seconds consistently throughout entire game to be remotely effective as killer. any slower than that and the gen just fly. Killer that were proficient at the chase gain a lot of regression from 60 second+25% total regression pop due to that double pop interaction. good for m1.
With current pop, i don't notice any slowdown vs efficient teams. It is not really surprising to why that is either. The only slowdown i notice is pain res+grim embrace. nothing else.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688283#Comment_3688283
The problem with Pop is not so much that you won't reach the gen before the duration ends. At most it takes 25 seconds to traverse the map and get to that specific gen. However, the gen could very well be finished before you make it there. That's where weaker killers usually struggle and it's why it's so important to keep chases short.
With UW I agree but again, this is less an issue with the perk and more with killer design. If more killers had good mobility, then this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Mobility is one of the things that heavily impact how good or bad a killer is. Have you ever seen a killer that good map mobility but was still horribly weak? Or have we ever had a killer that had neither a good chase power nor good mobility but was still good (besides SM, who was only that good because of specific perks and addons)?
Especially that part about Distortion rubs me the wrong way. I am of the opinion that right now Distortion is not a healthy perk. It counters a good variety of killer meta perks (even when combined, which is kind of crazy) and it takes little to keep the effect up all game. So the payoff is a bit too high for how little you actually have to do (few exceptions) and it also means, that someone else will die early because if the killer can't find you, they can't go for you, which means, that someone else will take your chases and hooks. What happens now if the killer doesn't go out of their way not to tunnel? Someone is likely going to die at 4 or 5 hooks.
negative. the timer is biggest issue with pop for low tier killers. See with 60 second of pop goes weasel, a killer could commit to a chase, down survivor, see that a gen nearby had progress, kick that gen then hook survivor, get another pop and kick another gen in same area.
with current pop, your pop goes weasel expires. you trade regression for distance gain for committing to kick a gen. that is why they nerfed pop goes weasel from 60 second → 45 second. a higher mobility killer can make up distance loss, a low mobility killer cannot make up distance loss. They don't get anything out of using pop if survivor is efficient. as long as 1 survivor is on a gen, by the time you catch-up to the survivor that is hold-w from your kick, they regain all progression from pop on another gen.
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@UndeddJester said:
I am embracing the new direction of Twins to reduce slugging by allowing Victor to bounce around wounding everyone before going for a down. This is a good direction with the right intent...
The obvious problem is that this allows survivors to kick Victor after wounding a survivor... punishing Victor for landing a hit, so obviously this was removed... but creates the new problem that now Victor can hit you, can't be killed, and just runs you down and hits you again. He basically crawls up your backside and smacks you point blank, and there is little you can do to stop it...
So my proposal is allowing survivors to kick Victor when he is charging his pounce.
This makes Victor go for longer lunges, which themselves are easier to dodge, giving survivors some appropriate counterplay, but not punishing Victor for successfully landing his hits.
Now the obvious problem here, is hugging terrain denies Victor a shot, and Victor has to keep dropping pounce to get an angle, then faces issues of survivors baiting him and coming back to kick Victor in the face... though this might be fine with the faster charging speed of his pounce changes. If it becomes a problem, make Victor faster (say 6.5 - 7m/s) so he can get angles and reposition quicker, and if need be give him faster recovery on a miss... but the point is if he gets too close or doesn't pay attention to survivors around him he can get caught, and in response he can bait a pounce to lure survivors towards him and then commit, giving him a unique mind game.
Needs to be carefully made so it's smooth and functions well. I imagine the pounce may need to work like Hillbilly chainsaw where it has to dissapate (0.5s to dissipate from 99 to 0 perhaps?). It would likely need iterating on in the PTB to make it fair and smooth... but if it can be done, this I feel should make Twins more fun, pushing them to go for wild hits and long leaps, which are great fun to land, and make them more engaging to play against at the same time.
if a survivor is camping a pallet, you hit them with victor, you go into cooldown, the survivor drops a pallet, you get stunned as victor, victor dies. nothing changed.
furthermore if you drop a pallet as victor pounces, you might not get hit and victor dies.
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@Xernoton said:
You've got it backwards. It's not that strong perks are designed to be better on strong killers but that strong killers usually have the tools to synergise well with meta perks.
Take Pop and Nowhere To Hide for example. Both are often used in combination on exactly the gens that survivors work on. But to even get to that gen before it's finished you need to activate Pop quickly, so you need fast chases and reach the gen shortly after, which means you'll need mobility. Good case powers + good mobility usually is enough to make a killer good.
We had a time when weaker killers were able to use meta perks just as well as stronger killers but to be honest, that was miserable. CoB + OC worked but it wasn't a healthy combination, simply because it had no special conditions. If they were to bring back this combination now, you'd need to pair it with Nowhere To Hide and it would probably be horrible for solo queue players because they are mostly not coordinated enough to make the killer waste their regression events on all gens but pretty useless against a good SWF because they would simply bait out the 8 kicks and then push through with no trouble. Keep in mind, if you can get back on thag gen immediately, the regression is almost non existent.
So redesigning meta perks will not work. Instead we need to focus on the killers that struggle and change them accordingly. Killers need at least 1) a good chase power or 2) good mobility (often both because otherwise you need to compensate for the lack of one by doubling down on the other). Many killers have a few extra things in their kit but there is no way around these 2.
Pop got buffed to 60 seconds so that weaker killers could more easily use the perk. It got nerfed to 45 seconds. this nerfed weaker killer from using the perk outside of 3 gens without affecting high mobility killers to use the perk.
Ultimate weapon is getting same treatment. the duration being lowered from 30 →15 seconds but this will only affect weaker killers with low traversal but will not affect stronger killers. I don't think it is going to be huge drastic nerf like pop was but i dislike how perk is losing scream property which is removing option for killer to counter distortion.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687594#Comment_3687594
I also don't like the idea of mindless tp spamming for condemn, which is why I much preferred her release version. I wish they kept her as she was on release but just added some of the QoL changes from other releases like the not being able to be stunned while demanifested, the shorted TV cooldowns after projection. This plus increasing the range condemn is built from a single TV upon Projection to like 18 meters would have made her a lot more balanced a fun. Also without the old Ring Drawing add-on because slugging isn't fun for anyone.
Onryo was a lot more fun when survivors didn't want to pick up tapes in order to avoid condemn, giving you mobility options unless they decided to risk condemn. Now survivors have a lot of control over your power and mobility which is unfortunate but that is what happens when condemn risk is so heavily tied to survivors not picking up tapes now.1.0 sadako is also about spamming televisions however the tv had 100 sec cooldown so in order to turn on televisions, you had to be successful at landing m1 to turn on tv's on iri-tape. in that sense, m1 were proxy to condemn. I didn't like this too much because survivor had control over whether they were next to a tv or not. I had to slug people to force survivors to go near televisions. Not the worst thing but a poor chasing killer committing to chases wasn't ideal.
current Sadako is failed design. her design was in a good spot on 2nd iteration. if there was something i would changed, i would change the tp global condemn build up to be 0.75→0.33 to tone down the passive condemn build-up but remove cooldown on her TP. This is because hens show cased that you could spam TP and block off televisions to gain condemn by just being afk with the killer. In addition, to solving that hens gameplay problem, i would reduce the TV turn off cooldown from 70 second to 45 second and TV cooldown for killer to 30 second. this would make that more TV would constantly be on allowing survivors to always grab a tape.
At best, she needed few nerfs, not a demolition on her kit.
@Blueberry said:
I'd rather just have Sadako 2.0 version back, that was my favorite. People might call this "mindless teleporting", but to me that's not understanding what this game play was. The teleporting did nothing if you weren't good at basic m1 killer play as you couldn't remove their tape to make them vulnerable to begin with. It was trying to balance condemn build up while also having t.v.'s available for your map mobility. This wasn't mindless at all. The only change this version needed for lower mmr players was lighting t.v.'s auras up within a certain range to help survivors find them better.
Current problem she has is that the Condemn is a useless feature. Requiring multiple hooks to lock in the condemn is a failed concept. Once I've hooked them twice the Condemn is irrelevant as they're dead on hook anyway. Then all it's doing is saving some hook time, which given the time spent trying to build their condemn in the first place you wasted more time than it gained you.
Not allowing tapes to be destroyed on hit is the other failed design point. She has nearly zero control over the survivors removing their tape stacks. If I can hit them as a "not actually stealth" m1 killer with basically no anti loop I should be rewarded for that by destroying their tape at least.
The literal only thing she has going for her is good map mobility, that's it.
No anti loop, not an actual stealth killer because of the lullaby, and a very minuscule slow down mechanic.
Why even bother dropping a tape off? There's no punishment.
And why isn't Ring Drawing base kit if we're not destroying tapes on hit?
Just so many design flaws with this current version that she's left in a completely pitiful state. This is why no ones playing her. We took a bad killer, made her actually good, and then put her right back into her original bad state. What was the point of this.
The worst part is that the chase got smallest buff possible. the m/s on manifesting is barely scratching the surface. You would think they would buffing her chase by tremendously amount by making an entire curse mechanic ineffective.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687561#Comment_3687561
That's not true, Undying revealed your aura only near DULL totems. The intention was that it stopped you from dodging the effects of undying by removing the places the hex could relocate to.
Thrill's nerf was entirely so that boons couldn't be countered when they were trying to sell a survivor whose whole schtick was boons.
that is the nerfed version. the original version of undying is that it revealed your aura for cleansing all totems. this was changed to dull totems only. Thrill of the hunt gave loud noise notification when you begin cleansing a hex totem. they removed this and reduced cleansing speed.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
So we go from "slugging boring killer" to "no counter Victor".
Victor can now down you from healthy to injured in row, good luck dodging 150% speed chucky running at you with lower than 1s charge time. Everyone will now want to be injured rather than healthy because Victor is forced to hold you when downed but he can hit all healthy Survivors without needing to be recalled.
i watched Lynxi video that talk about how major it is for victor to be able to hit healthy → hit injured survivors →downed. I don't think this matters because a survivor who is hit by victor still puts victor on cooldown. In essence, you can get hit by victor, camp a pallet and then throw pallet to kill victor. There is nowhere in patch notes where it says that victor is immune to getting killed during cooldown or immune to stuns.
So much for "no counters". I still have to summon victor two times per down and healing still counters victor, all the same.