Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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maybe they make invocation perk that respawns all pallets or re-builds pallets passively.
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Equip lightborn.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698505#Comment_3698505
That would make him significantly less fun to play as and against imo. Now he's basically just the snail that moves incredibly slowly and kills you instantly. It's not even like that would make him stronger, as map mobility is already his biggest issue and this proposed nerf makes him as fast as a survivor. He's Nurse with no map traversal and even less counterplay when he does get in chase.
This would also be a horrible idea on indoor maps, and I don't think I need to explain why.
make it an iri add-on. what is that useless thing he has? Hellshire iron? irrelevant undetectable add-on. I would equip that add-on to have 0.15 wind-up for moving at 96% or 100% m/s.
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@RFSa09 said:
without speed addons blight have almost 0 anti loop, idk why bhvr nerfed them just to make iri tag
they're goal was to nerf blight's add-ons. the speed add-on were obviously the most potent ones but it seems that they're bringing them back with iri tag and 10% summoning stone.
Iri tag is now new green blighted crow add-on and summoning stone is new blighted rat. whooping 30% m/s increase.
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@ArkInk said:
He's got a fairly good chase power, he just needs either his old TR back or 115% speed imo. As fun as quickscoping was as killer, it really sucked as survivor because you could be shot basically whenever you were in his LoS.
They also need to remove a ton of the invisible walls so he can do more cool shots! Idk why they started adding them in the first place.
As fun as quickscoping was as killer, it really sucked as survivor because you could be shot basically whenever you were in his LoS.
that entirely the point of the character. honestly just make slinger 100% m/s or 96% m/s. just bring back quick scoping.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698465#Comment_3698465
Do you only think theres 4 cures? And who should i compare him too Pyramidhead? You cant cleanse AT ALL except getting hooked or caged Not to mention Nemesis nullifying stealth aint a gamechanger plus how terribly easy it is to cleanse weakness with that bad buffer
Unknown's UFX is compare to Artist birds. you need 2 hits for an injury. Nemesis whip is counted as a hit. not as debuff. It is just that debuff does nothing for Nemesis. Only helps survivor. that is why i don't understand why he has infection cases or why he even has that tier system because it only self-weakened his power.
He'd be stronger killer right now if he just had no infection, had no cases and his tiers were just his base-whip.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695650#Comment_3695650
Totally disagree.
While the instant mori was an issue for what you listed, the base kit UB was absolutely a huge issue that was complained about. It was not received positively or even neutral for that matter. It was unanimously hated and viewed as something that would ruin DBD. If we had a solely UB PTB it would be extremely negative, that is not an exaggeration.
my opinion is that instant mori was well designed change to to prevent killer toxicity but i think the change needed to work like EGC where it has a timer.
Base-kit unbreakable really didn't work. the number were way off for what was required to implement such a mechanic. 45 second at base was too low and 100% recovery speed which result in 22.5 second pick-up was silly. 90-120 seconds is where the mechanic needed to be at. I would be more inclined to try something like that.
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unnerfed lipros lichen so that portals are not just a 3 gen tool and can be used for information and map presence.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698222#Comment_3698222
it’s easier than ever to counter her condemn. Survivors are practically having their handheld to make it happen. If they bring back passive condemn on tapes, I don’t care about the one second tape insertion or the hook limit we currently have.
if they take away the hook limitation you can leave the one second tape insertion, I think I am a very reasonable person, and I’m not asking for all these changes to happen, but there is no counter currently that’s where I draw an issue especially with how many flaws I have pointed out with videos on the forums
i think all rework were major success except for Sadako. While twin's rework is somewhat pushing a mixed-message with trying to remove slugging, it is not ultimately bad. It is just that I think it is trying push twins into something that killer is not.
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yep. it is a valid win condition.
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big no to 90% of those changes. Way to killer sided.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697854#Comment_3697854
If between Spine chill "know aura being shown" and Distortion "know aura being shown + hide aura + hide scratch mark". Im sure people still use Distortion.
Even if you buff to have Spine chill hides scratch mark, and nerf Distortion to only hides aura. Distortion is still more useful. Because you know…killer is seeing your aura, not scratch mark.
i wish for opposite. i wish most of killer perks were hidden from the survivor and not globally announced. I hate how survivor can tell what my build is in 20 seconds and i don't know what survivor builds are.
Adrenaline? No clue who has it.
Decisive strike? Only clue is survivor bodyblocking.
Unbreakable? Barely any clue other than noticing the recover animation being quicker.
Deliverance? No clue.
The killer perks too easy to sniff out. faster wipe, faster pallet break, exploding gens. It is like nothing is a secret meanwhile killer needs PHD to figure what the survivor is using.
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you picked wrong time to be playing this killer.
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new ultimate weapon is still really good for tracking. the issue is distortion. It is weird because now i want to use ultimate weapon to avoid decisive strike but the nerf shows up exactly on decisive strike patch. what a coincidence…
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697621#Comment_3697621
Buba sadly can‘t facecamp effectively now and agree. No other killer could do it like buba did.
well just so you know, they're buffing facecamping in next update. One of the changes they're doing is that whenever a survivor innate an unhook action. the unhook action cannot be canceled.
What this means that you can run add-on's like iri head and iri-coin on deathslinger and just aim down sight. as soon as survivor begins unhooking, they are guaranteed to get hit by iri head or iri coin because they cannot stop unhooking action.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697599#Comment_3697599
I know those killers can do that, but I don’t like playing those. I don‘t mean with camping waiting until someone dies more like wait for someone to come to the hook and chase him instead of searching for someone, but 1 it‘s not worth with anti camp 2 they can see it filling up and tell it their team.
Insidious basemnet buba is till a legend.
face-camping is reserved for bubba and machine-gun type killers. it shouldn't be universal strength.
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One. Flip a switch, remove the parameters of "The timer is paused when running or in the process of Mending." Just delete that line of code. That's literally it.
That used to be in the game. The old condition for deep wound to not go down was being in terror radius.
This would result in Legion equipping Beast of Prey, a perk that grants undetectable. The survivor would eventually bleed out in 15 seconds passively resulting a free down in the chase. This was immediately changed to not go down during running.
I used to get deep wound downs with Doctor's snap out because Doctor's snap out would prioritize over mending on random occasions. if you forced snap out 2 times, you could force it implicitly. So it used to be possible to get downs with doctor. This was removed.
I think only thing I would do is make timer deplete at 3x rate when a survivor is doing an interaction. This would prevent survivors from opening exit gate and cleansing totems. Other than that the mechanic works ok. Survivor should be prioritizing deep wound and should not be able to do interactions when in deep wound.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697463#Comment_3697463
A killer should not have to play one certain way, that‘s just boring. Also camping was easy to counter. The only time you had to leave someone to die on hook was when buba was Face camping, which was not the end of the world. I‘m also not against the anti-camp, but not as base kit mechanic. It should be a part of all those hook based perks (reassurance…)
you can still face-camp. in fact one of biggest memes in dbd right now is tombstone myer's face-camping. machine guns like huntress can still face-camp by re-downing the survivor quickly. all that mechanic does is give survivor the ability to unhook themselves instead of die to automatic regression. It is not enforcing you to do anything.
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@YayC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696763#Comment_3696763
3/7 is extremely easy to maintain because you are able to prevent condemn being pushed in the first place so easily. Every single oreo I've played against since 3.0 has never managed to push more than 3 stacks of condemn on me the entire match.
Currently the trade off on the time you waste in chase to get that guranteed condemn lock is not worth it because Sadako is so easy to loop. It's just an effect that happens if you happen to get a hook. Locking in 4+ stacks is something that would definitely be worth detouring for since you can conceivably push 3 or less stacks in a chase. The extra 1 stack while being able to cleanse in Sadako's face is a massive breakpoint and if you are 4 or more stacks locked in turning off extra TV's when you cleanse wouldn't be worth risking. I honestly think 4 stacks locked in would be the threshold to make the mechanic useful
Let's do an example, I have 3 stacks locked in meaning I need 4 stack to die. I grab my tape, do my gen on my turned off TV. 3/4 of the way through this gen the TV will turn back on so I go turn it off getting a 4th stack. I do this gen and now I need to deposit my tape. Preventing 3 more stacks before I can deposit it, this is extremely easy to do for reasons like the video. Sadako would basically need to know you did the gen, immediately pressure you off the gen finish as you run by multiple turned on TV's. She would also need to injure you so you can't insert it in her face. This makes cleansing those last stacks ridiculously easy and even if you die inserting the tape, you haven't died on first hook so you've done your job.
Now lets say I have 4 stacks locked in in the same scenario. If I want to complete that gen, all Sadako would need to do is TP twice in a chase to kill me since you'd be at 5 stacks after turning off the TV to do the gen, this is very conceivable since you'd only need to do a single TP during the chase then the injure then the TP on the tape you need to insert it on. You're now mori-able at 1st hook.
If you're at 5 stacks of condemn lock in, you wouldn't even risk turning off the TV and finishing the gen. Infact in this situation, your best bet would be to grab a tape opposite of a gen you want to do, then deposit that tape next to the gen you want to do. Start doing that gen then grab the tape when it turns on 3/4 of the way through the gen. That initial trip to grab a tape and deposit it on a gen is slowdown you just gained because of those extra 2 locked in stacks of condemn.
It's also important to not in the latter 2 scenarios, you're more likely to kill them through mental. What I mean by this is they'll be so worried about not having condemn pushed on them they'll be much more likely to mess up in chase because 4+ stacks is when you need to start worrying about your condemn.
3 stacks is just under the threshold of when you really need to being worrying about condemn so it doesn't affect passable players gameplay so isn't worth doing.
I have watched countless amounts of gameplay of Sadako and my own, nobody right now is playing with condemn lock in mind. They just play and then if they lock in some condemn it's whatever on both sides. This was meant to be a major mechanic and it is barely affecting the gameplay in the current state. Bad players are too bad to notice it's even happened, good players don't care because they can prevent getting to a point where it holds a threat in the first place because it's so easy to prevent condemn and cleanse it.
If someone get hooked at 4 stacks, your poised to teleport back to the hook to increase this from 4→5. so now survivor is sitting at 5/7.
The speed at which you kill at condemn is same speed as hooking. Like if you hook survivor at 5/7 on 2nd hook, they'll die faster by hooking. If they get another stack of condemn, then you'll kill them by condemn after teleporting back to the hook a 2nd time. Either way, this is ultimately pointless because killing someone on death hook by condemn offers no reward on killer power. you'd achieve same thing by running ebony mori.
If i hook someone at 5/7, you lock in 3 stacks. you tp again back to the hook. they're 6/7 stacks. This incentives you to slug because once you down survivor, you slug them near a TV with 6/7 stacks and when survivor is picked up, they get 7/7 stacks which allow you to skip a hook-state. This is an old ring drawing strategy.
In both cases, the lock-in is not doing anything because your not allowing survivor to alleviate their condemn. In case 1, it is creating incentives tunnel off-hook and in case 2, it doesn't matter. your slugging and getting condemn kill because survivor is playing poorly.
In short, when survivor reaches a certain threshold of condemn, there is less reason to leave that survivor alone and more incentive to keep pushing condemn onto that survivor because they're closest to death. Functionally, most of the condemn kills within lock-in system are going to be death hook which is defeating purpose of the mori. that is one of the reasons why the sadako rework is total failure.
In my opinion, the only way this lock-in version of condemn is going to do anything is if hooking someone lock-in other survivor's condemn stacks. What this would do is allow sadako to simultaneously kill entire team at once.
For example, let's list survivor A/B/C/D
Say
survivor A has 1 stack
Survivor B has 2 stacks
Survivor C has 1 stack
Survivor D gets hooked with 1 stack.
Survivor A,B,C have their stacks lock-in up to 3.
This creates situation where it pushes survivors to cleanse any amount of stacks they have as soon as possible and any hook you get before allows you to lock-in their condemn progress. you will slowly keep locking-in 1-2 stacks if survivor do not cleanse stacks. By the end of 3-4 hooks. you would have lock-in many stacks of condemn on survivors that you have not hooked. This also makes Ring drawing a much potent add-on because suppose your carrying a tape when Sadako hooks someone. A survivor will increase their condemn stack by 1 and that 1 stack is lock-in. Survivor get properly punished for not depositing tapes and sadako gets rewarded for hooking.
that is what I would do if I was trying improve this iteration of Sadako.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697224#Comment_3697224
I thought you meant in general that positioning is not supposed to be counterplay and not for chucky specifically.
I mean sure, it lowered his options, but it was somewhat stupid that you could get hits this easily, and I still find scamper too strong. At least against the other killers mentioned windows do more.
As Blight you can also use bump logic to try to get the hit, but it relies on other objects being around.
yes, it is not suppose to be counter-play because it removes counter-play from the killer. the killer has to now avoid said situation and mitigate risk.
I mean sure, it lowered his options, but it was somewhat stupid that you could get hits this easily
why? those hits were more difficult to pull off then what Chucky gets as hits now.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697210#Comment_3697210
But you can just zone them out of the perfect spot... And then hit them from there on out... Just like you do as Billy with curves... That's the whole gameplay there, the survivor positions himself and you try to lead them into making a mistake and getting a hit, how is this not counterplay.
I dont know if that is true for chucky, when you made it around a corner and he started his dash before then maybe you can dodge it. But I agree somewhat that is power is almost guaranteed to be a hit.
They do become somewhat stronger, but they can still be outplayed even with those.
the survivor positions himself and you try to lead them into making a mistake and getting a hit, how is this not counterplay.
I don't understand what your talking about. Chucky activating his ability then scampering a pallet immediately → Slice & Dice does not rely on survivor making a mistake. it relies on you making a mistake as Chucky.
When Chucky uses Slice & Dice, he can vault pallets within Slice & Dice window and reset the duration of Slice & Dice. the restricted turning angle made this functionality somewhat useless in many instances because you cannot turn enough after the vault to land the hit. In my opinion, it wasn't good change because it lowered skill-ceiling of the killer. there is less cool hits you can do at loops now. you can still get the hits at loops, but there is less options to do that.
That is unlike other 3 killers that completely rely on those tech to get the hits. Like Blight relies on hug tech to slide off-cars to get hits at loops. it is not something he can do innately.
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trickster needs many hits and a lot of time to perform said injure. huntress needs los for like 3 seconds to get an injure. Buffing huntress m/s on holding hatchets makes her so strong at zoning.
Deathslinger used to not have high m/s in ADS mode. they only buffed his ADS m/s mode because they reduced his scoping speed. needlessly to say, it is not very good compensation buff.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697132#Comment_3697132
How is positioning not counterplay?
I am saying that you as killer have no counter-play in those instances where survivor positions in a way you cannot angle the hit.
At same time, Chucky can always position himself in a way where he doesn't need to do 90 degrees to get hits. With chucky in particular, his tech only allowed him to do different type of hits.
In the case of these other tech's, they completely revolutionize how you play those killers and direct buff those killer powers. the killer that i am talking about are Oni, Blight and Wesker.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697009#Comment_3697009
With the 90° you can put yourself in positions where he cannot hit you when you round a corner... So that's definitely more counterplay.
I dont think hug tech on Blight should get removed, I think Wesker techs should not get removed and I don't know about Oni, because it feels his 180° is more unreliable than for example chuckies was.
I mean it is adding depth to the killer, it solely depends on if they have counterplay + if the interaction is fun. Sure oversight can happen, but that does not mean that this stuff needs to get removed... Legion tech was probably an oversight but nobody should even want to remove it... So what is the difference? It has counterplay, is on a weak killer and is very situational.
With the 90° you can put yourself in positions where he cannot hit you when you round a corner... So that's definitely more counterplay.
but that is no counter-play for the killer. I am saying you can put yourself in positions where you don't need to 90 degree for chucky resulting in the same situation that you allege is no counter-play.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693134#Comment_3693134
Funny how Chuckys tech had basically no counterplay and allowed for 180 flicks and more with absolutely insane movementspeed whereas the hug tech on Blight can be outplayed and the how to is known to the community for years... It is not really comparable.
That is somewhat similar to the stagger tech, there was not much you could do as killer about it and it could lead to somewhat of an infinite on Ormond if the window spawn was the correct one.
what about chucky's tech being removed makes him more have more counter-play than before? those two tech's are equivalent. Now question is, when is Wesker's hug tech and Oni's 180 flick tech being removed? That is clearly next target, right? Slushies says that is one of reasons/concerns why she taking a minor break from the game.
In my opinion, these tech are over-sights that killer are using to modify the balance of the killer. In chucky's case, it was negate his poor stearing in slice & dice. Blight hug tech is poor stearing, but also something else. it negates his self 1 second stun when he bumps into something. Like think about Lery's blight where fitting through doorways is tricky but if you look down then you can slide alongside the wall to change your bump logic pathing. Hug Tech for Wesker is like Billy's curving. Straight-line skill turned into jagged line skill. Oni 180 flick removes dead angles on his ability. It is a way to scapegoat his Scalp top knot add-on that got nerfed 2-3 years ago.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696595#Comment_3696595
And yet Killers can STILL stack 4 Slowdowns, which they dont even need.
playing without slowdown on killer is like playing to lose. the negative perk nerf also don't help with perk variety on killer either. there is like no good perk variety on killer where the killer feels good about not choosing slowdown.
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Likewise, abusing hitboxes with Shred timing is something that is often neglected, the range for Shred is actually further than most Killer powers which means you can often get hits that a normal M1 would otherwise not get. This can extended to getting more control over your Shred and hitting Survivors with the edge of the hitbox which ultimatelyputs yourself at a subtle stop, allowing for more free movement after a Shred, as opposed to a sudden stop, which cancels all momentum.
shred is not better than m1 at most loops for few reasons. the first is that lunges can curve, shred only goes in straight line. The second reason is charge time. charge time allows survivor to take rough edges and removes -timing ability- of playing around dropped tiles. This leaves pre-drop as huge vulnerability to demo and guess what. his pallet break is not really that good beyond corner pallet zoning. Survivor can and will chain every tile on the map. you can exactly calculate the amount you can greed as survivor without ever giving demo an angle to the shred.
Portals are unironically the simplest part of his kit. Despite a majority of Demo's addons being dedicated to making Portals or Portal travel better in some way, I find that players often neglect this part of their ability as a whole.
they take more time to setup and survivors waste almost no time to disable it. The reward also is not that amazing considering this is suppose to make demogorgon into something like stealth killer that can ambush survivors at gens akin to wraith invisibility but ability is so under-tuned that you rarely feel like your getting ambushed by demogorgon.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's a concerning trend, and it's a mistake many other modern developers are making as well. This isn't a phenomenon exclusive to BHVR. There's this notion among modern game devs that your worst players in a skill bracket need to be able to stand a chance against the best players in that skill bracket. So many games are implementing these skill floors that are also viable, and all that does is alienate your most passionate players.
The floor should not be viable. The floor should not allow for a 50% win rate against a skilled player. The floor should represent the floor. Modern Controls in SF6 shouldn't be viable against pros. Every job was completely homogenized and dumbed down in FF14 and now the devs are trying to walk that back after Endwalker semi-flopped. Support is completely broken in OW2. I could keep going.
In DbD, you see with this dumbing down of killers relative to their strength output. A killer as easy Chucky or Skull Merchant should not be anywhere near A tier in strength. Not when killers like Huntress or Singularity exist in that same tier of strength. How satisfying do you think it is for a top tier survivor to see a 500 hour Chucky scamper under a pallet for a free M1?
It doesn't matter where you put the skill floor. A certain portion of your playerbase will always find it. The floor can't be viable against players who are striving for the ceiling. You eventually end up with an apathetic playerbase after you've run off everyone who cares. I hate where modern gaming is going. Developers are completely lost.
In DbD, you see with this dumbing down of killers relative to their strength output. A killer as easy Chucky or Skull Merchant should not be anywhere near A tier in strength. Not when killers like Huntress or Singularity exist in that same tier of strength.
pretty sure you create horrible imbalance the game with that logic and form radical elitism for x characters and y characters. I believe there is a term for this in video games. Was it Scrub strategies? It is like picture fighting game. a player is doing x action that makes y player lose, so Y player blames the scrub mechanic for losing rather then learning to play against said scrub strategy to defeat it. Then Y player creates conclusion that certain set character styles should not be allowed to be viable. e.g Spamming zoning moves or SPD Command grabs character shouldn't be strong. Only combo characters should be relevant in said genre because they take more skill to play then pressing 1 zoning button or 1 command grab.
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@YayC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696176#Comment_3696176
Without a limit it rewarded you by punishing greedy players. It also rewarded you catching people out with a tape and also gave you another option in your, at this point very limited arsenal. Sacrificing time for a hook for guaranteed condemn used to be good for building large amounts of pressure and would force them to really interact with your power if you condemn locked them and therefor granted very good slowdown which in turn would reduce the time they spent cranking gens.
When cleansing condemn is so easily done, being able to lock in 4+ stacks of condemn was a game changer. It also made it so when you do get a hook, they couldn't just use second chance perks to freely cleanse their non-locked in condemn like they can now.
what about current limit doesn't allow you to punish current greedy survivors? hooking a survivor a single time changes the threshold from 7/7 to 4/7.
For example, if you hook someone with 4 stack of condemn, 3/4 means only 1 stack can be cleansed. In my opinion, condemn lock doesn't make a difference right now because of this exact interaction shown by MechWarrior3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8HLaYwvbtsSurvivor don't have to worry about their condemn because as long they have a tape, they can just do tapes right in your face. The only way to actually get condemn kills is to lock in 6 stacks of condemn because anything else results in this interaction.
Furthermore, if survivor are shutting down TV's collectively in spread out open maps, there is virtually 0 condemn build-up. So the fact I can lock condemn is meaningless if i build 0 condemn anyway. you can watch Cammy's video on Sadako on Father Chapel to illustrate that.
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efficient swf is not being dethroned. it is being balanced around. Killer are actually able to compete vs swf now with pain res+grim embrace. Before, SWF were so efficient at the game that regardless of how well killer did, the result was always the same. A loss. Now the killer punishes survivors that play poorly in the chase. In other words, you have to be good at looping to win in addition to be efficient.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah poor Sadako got left in the dumpster, she’s so bad right now. I personally think 2.0 version was perfect, it just needed some small tweaks for lower mmr players like showing the tv auras close by to help them find them, that’s it.
If we’re trying to fix this current version though, we can’t be requiring hooks for it to function. This defeats the entire point of the power. A mori is irrelevant if they’re dead on hook anyway. Not wasting time on pick up, walk, hook, is what gave her time efficiency back. Bring back destroying tapes on hit, that gives Sadako some control of her power.
If we’re trying to force hooking, bring back unlimited lock in. So whatever they’re at on one hook is locked in. Also, Ring Drawing needs to be base kit with this. Again destroy tapes on hit too. I still think requiring hooking is counterintuitive to her fundamental condemn design though.
As you already said, people saying her condemn is only for slow down is flawed thinking. If it’s just supposed to be passive slow down in the background then her entire power is a teleport that survivors can control? That’s it?
I say that’s it because her “anti loop” if we wanna call it that is a joke. It does basically nothing for loops. Her “stealth” also isn’t even a real stealth since it has a lullaby. She has nothing else.
If we’re trying to fix this current version though, we can’t be requiring hooks for it to function. This defeats the entire point of the
power. A mori is irrelevant if they’re dead on hook anyway. Not wasting time on pick up, walk, hook, is what gave her time efficiency back. Bring back destroying tapes on hit, that gives Sadako some control of her power.She is glorified pyramid head now. You can mori survivors on death hook. amazing. the dev are just really anti-slugging. If a killer is slugging, they just punished killer or attempt to neuter the killer's slugging capacity. They even attempted to neuter Twin's slugging.
The dev that designs these killers almost doesn't seem like same dev that balances them.
The goal of killer design on every chapter should be, “how do we make this killer a unique experience to play as and against”. This is how you make dbd feel like it has different game modes when it doesn’t and prevent people from getting bored. They currently have way, way too many killers that play as and against exactly the same with a different coat of paint. That’s bad design.
Slugging killer are unique design. That is why we need erase them and make them all into hook designs so you can enjoy your different coat of paint!
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the whole point of condemn is to kill people with no hooks. this was going to be nothing mechanic from the start.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696137#Comment_3696137
how will that work exactly? Like will it work with the survivor injured or healthy?
very simple perk.
You are the bringer of sweet pain.
At the start of the Trial, 4 random Hooks are changed into Scourge Hooks:
The auras of Scourge Hooks are revealed to you in white.
Each time a survivor is hooked, the survivor suffers from a 10/13/16% action speed penalty to Repairing and healing.
You hook someone, they get gift of pain debuff for entire trial. It does not stack. It is another pain res, grim embrace perk that incentives spreading hooks but the reward is -action speed instead of gen regression or global gen-block. Likely won't happen because… someone at bvhr HQ hates -action speed since they make sure to nerf it.
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i'd just rework perk to apply 16% healing penalty and repair penalty. no mangled or hemorrhage.
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he always had base-kit illusions for 1 second. Restraint buffs the duration of illusions by 7 seconds.
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@Blueberry said:
Well firstly, those numbers for getting use out of CoH you gave are extremely exaggerated. It would be significantly less than that.
Secondly, comparing those numbers to self care isn’t really accurate. This is because CoH is “one” perk for the entire team and self care would require every single person to run it, aka “four” perk slots. So any boon will “always” have less single person value since it’s for “everyone”.
A final note. The perk is still extremely good. Many swf groups will run it, it’s not uncommon. Now if you want to argue it should be changed to be better for solos and not as good for swf I could see that being a fair argument, but just buffs? No, it would be too strong on swf. Rework? Sure.
i rather my team runs like 2 botany knowledge then run's COH. It is funny how they weaken COH then release Strength from the Shadows that has infinity healing every 15 seconds…… that swf can hyper abuse.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695036#Comment_3695036
What's wrong about him?
I mean, beside his ability to tunnel with his 350 dashing speed on 92 speed of infected survivor.
that is exactly what is wrong. the healthy designed is a power that incentives tunneling and optimizes tunneling.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695539#Comment_3695539
While I agree with your principle, locking locks is so inconsequential in time that they would still do it anyway, it’s not costly. However I’m not dead set on this, we could buff nightfall in other ways.
I personally think more of their issues lie in core mechanics and outside of nightfall though. I don’t have as much issue with the nightfall itself.
i played dredge for about 100 games when he got released. i didn't find much of a problem outside of nightfall. His tp is point A→B outside of nightfall. Not fastest mobility but it does work. His anti-loop is also same strength. you play it like knight's guards, put remnant on side, go other side, squashy the survivor between the two places you can be. He's fine outside of nightfall.
His biggest issues are in nightfall. His TP is suppose to be ambush/anti-hold w tool but it doesn't work because most of the maps don't have enough lockers. this is what my Nightfall remnant change is talking about. You can hear dredge directional in nightfall which almost removes any mind games vs good looper. they legit hear you across wall…. It is like having spirit phase-walk as m1 killer and then outside of that, the nightfall simply isn't dangerous and surprisingly easy to counter. There is no stealth in his kit because… glows like christmas+sound. You can heal during nightfall so when nightfall ends, the nightfall meter builds so slowly based off # of injured survivors but if everyone heals, you end up losing nightfall charges.
I don't know, he's just a mess. I don't really play him. he was boring for me and ineffective. when I play vs him as survivor, the two add-on i typically see are Ottoman writing and Lavier's microphone. Ottoman writing is add-on that reduces cooldown for using his power outside nightfall. this is strong for a number of reasons, one of them being that you can double-tap to charge nightfall passively and other being that you can't like hold-w in the cooldown of his remnant. Lavier's microphone is like… free lethal pursuer… periodically, just spammed. really strong for just straight up tunneling survivor on death hook. It is impossible hide vs dredge. Distortion only real counter to that add-on.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695531#Comment_3695531
It doesn’t defeat the purpose because it’s only during nightfall, which is a smaller portion of the game than not. Locks would still be useful outside nightfall. I agree on your second point.
his teleport is not very good outside of nightfall. you don't need locks to outplay it. you only care about locks inside nightfall.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695504#Comment_3695504
Maybe just make Dredge during nightfall ignore locks. Make the “bang” of teleporting to lockers silent during nightfall. Also simply more locker placements would help those map issues, like if they just threw a few in the middle of the Haddonfield road next to cars.
As much as I don’t really play much Freddy or Myers I agree they are definitely more deserving of the next changes. They need it the most.
pretty sure that defeats purpose of locking lockers. powers can have drawbacks but if they have drawback, they're suppose really powerful to have a drawback.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695457#Comment_3695457
That’s pretty annoying if it’s intended and not a bug. Feels bad. I agree with your point. He has tons of counter play, just not the strength to justify all of it.
i think it is intended. the idea is that you can lock lockers in nightfall and you get 2 second chances because locker typically spawn in pairs.
regardless, i think issue with dredge is that his nightfall doesn't feel strong enough and his teleport is too map dependant. he needs rework for how his nightfall buffs his locker tp in my opinion because like… you can spawn on a map like haddonfield and there is no lockers in the middle of the map. My suggestion would be to make remnant spawns all over the map that have old trapper trap spawn rng during nightfall. Dredge can target these remnants in nightfall to tp. It would him less map dependant without changing anything about the maps themselves.
I would also buff his nightfall however i am not sure what would be a good buff for it. The two ideas that i thought to make nightfall more prevalent is to make nightfall inflict broken for duration of the debuff and to lower nightfall charges from 300 to 250.
He's surely killer that need changes but they first need change Freddy who is a lot worse and Myer's whoses base-kit leaves much to be desired and tends to rely… mori add-on's. Dredge & Nemesis are in the need changes department but other killers are taking their priority.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694805#Comment_3694805
Okey that could work. Most people would probably still ignore condemned.
I would probably still prefer 1.0 personally, but your version would be fine. I‘m just not a fan of the condemned tp spam and the 2 stacks by hit when playing against 2.0 (it often snowballed me out really fast). I also like passive condemned.
they already do. that is like only way you get any condemn kills right now vs decent player. the survivor has to purposely let themselves get mori'd.
I‘m just not a fan of the condemned tp spam and the 2 stacks by hit when playing against 2.0 (it often snowballed me out really fast).
that is why i also proposed that condemn build up is halved to 0.5 per tp and 1 stack of condemn per tape break. this is assuming that ring drawing still gives 1 condemn per heal. I would like her to be just average.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694693#Comment_3694693
I just wanted to say with that, that she got much rarer in my survivor rounds after the first rework. That does not mean it was the same for you.
That would make it less annoying for Sadako, but I think it would make this killer too strong. I don‘t see how you want to balance her second version and remove the problems I said. She will either be too strong or useless.
I think the best way would be to give her a global condemned addon and return her to the first version.
stats don't show that she is less popular.
She will either be too strong or useless.
how can condemn be too strong when holding the tape disables condemn mechanic?
I don‘t see how you want to balance her second version and remove the problems I said.
I just explained it. her tp mobility will not have a cooldown. instead the cooldown is condemn. This means that you can use your mobility as much as you want. This was something implemented in 3.0 version then it was removed. BVHR implemented change on wrong iteration of the killer.
when survivor grab a tape, the TV turns off for 70 seconds. Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds. 30 second is very short cooldown so much so that survivors taking tapes will barely impact her mobility because TV will turn on so quickly.
The current 3.0 Sadako verges on edge of being too potent in midwich and too weak on most other maps.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693970#Comment_3693970
The problem of TVs being turned off would still be the same.
Skitten explains it perfect.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693999#Comment_3693999
The good point of 1.0 was that turning off TVs was not encouraged. I can assure you most people did not play her for condemned back then, because I was a survivor main at that time. Her pick rate decreased drastically after the rework. Before 1 of 10games I saw one Sadako→ after rework 1 of 20 games.
Also 1.0 had counterplay, you could either turn of TVs in advance like now, but get 1 stack every 25s → 4 stacks after finishing the gen. Fair trade, she could still interrupt you. Or you could take a tape and remove stacks. They were not supposed to be taken as a shield.
The problem of the reworks is that she looses two powers by survivors turning off TVs and I think both reworks are really unfair. First rework very unfair for survivors and there were little they could do. The second rework actively stombs and targets noobs and is miserable for Sadako against any decent player.The good point of 1.0 was that turning off TVs was not encouraged. I can assure you most people did not play her for condemned back then, because I was a survivor main at that time. Her pick rate decreased drastically after the rework. Before 1 of 10games I saw one Sadako→ after rework 1 of 20 games.
that is not true. her pick-rate was always nominal at 2%.
Here's otz old pick-rate chart BEFORE she got reworked(1.0)
This is her 2.0 pick-rate before she got nerfed.
There is no stats on 3.0 Sadako but i definitely do not see her very often. The turning off TV will be the same but the degree of how much it affects you from teleporting can be severe reduced by cooldown's of survivors picking up tapes and cooldown for teleporting. For example, 30 seconds of turning off TV from survivor grabbing a tape will barely be so short that your mobility will barely be affected.
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@Skitten56 said:
I agree they should hide the TV auras, but only when they are holding a tape. This means survivors will be able to find a TV to turn off easily enough, but cannot abuse the aura reading in chase. The buffs BHVR made recently to her post-Projection speed boost however did help with this issue.
Tapes breaking on hits is one of the worst things we could go back to. 100% against this. Her first rework was just a nightmare and this was a large part of it.
I'd rather they go back to her release version where she only spreads condemn around the TV she projects to, but increase the range or stacks applied upon Projection. Also go back to how the tapes used to work with ticking condemn and survivors being discouraged to grab tapes unless they want to deny mobility. These changes and keeping all the other QoL changes along with Ring Drawing nerf would be her best version imo. It would allow for skill but also be balanced.
Tapes breaking on hits is one of the worst things we could go back to. 100% against this. Her first rework was just a nightmare and this was a large part of it.
Why? it took skill for survivor to loop to hold onto the tape. the killer gained rewards for being successful at the chase. The fact that this was removed is one of sole reasons to why current sadako is so bad in first place because the counter-play has to be so strong to prevent the killer from being able just spam TV TP and gain condemn for just existing(aka doing nothing).
@YayC brings up fantastic points to why the condemn is:
1) not comparable pig game-delay
2) ineffective(Condemn build-up)
3) held hostage by the survivor through tape mechanic.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693970#Comment_3693970
I still think she's trash tier even on multi floor indoor maps. Tapes are too easy for it to matter.
muti-floors tv's make it so you always push people into TV's because they artificially give you global condemn radius. inserting tapes is more difficult on those maps because survivor have to path around the floors on midwich to insert the tape. She is not trash in that situation. She's trash in all other situations.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693060#Comment_3693060
I think OG Sadako with all the buffs she got with the reworks would be very strong, fair and fun. The thing most people complained about were the TV cooldowns and maybe that the condemned range should be a bit bigger.
My only problems with 2.0 were tp cooldowns and people constantly shutting of TVs to counter global condemneed (which is currently the same problem)
this could been easily adjusted. lowering cooldown on TV from survivor and killer would reduce downtime TV's being turned off. The tp cooldown should been condemn cooldown in which they did get right on 3.0 but it was on the on wrong version of the killer. The mobility would be untouched, the condemn build-up would work same way. maybe nerf condemn build-up to lesser degree like 0.5 condemn/1 second per tape break if it was unbalanced.
OG sadako wasn't good. it was same problem that current sadako has. There is virtually no counter-play towards spamming televisions because TV spawn near gens and survivor need to do gens to escape. The reason why problem isn't apparent is because tapes & TV's are ultra-broken in favor of survivor. this is very evident when you play Sadako on Elementary Midwich with Videotape copy add-on. It is just TP→TP→TP→TP and everyone condemn in like <3 minutes with 18 meter radius. The mechanic is beyond absurd. The OG sadako did not experience this problem because of 100 second TV cooldown. You had to run iri-tape which reset 4 televisions. Technically the problem was still there but it was based around killer getting hits which was mildly more balanced this version.
2.0 Sadako was genius design. This was because survivor had counter-play tool where they could render the mechanic ineffective and killer had a mechanic to manipulate said counter-play in their favor. Survivor that looped well and held tapes had no trouble defeating her in an average match and survivor that played the m1 game poorly quickly got killed. The mechanic was still a little rough on edges but the overall concept was brilliant. they took a cool concept and deleted it. Indoor maps, it is too strong and in outdoor maps, the killer is worthless vs good teams.
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693035#Comment_3693035
That's what I'm getting worried of. I feel like they're slowly removing the fun from certain killers and dwindling the roster of killers I enjoy playing. My recent casualties being Onryo and Pig, both of which I used to play a ton. I even had my over 100 win streak on Pig still going.
Pig is less accessible in my opinion. She can still do same gameplay as before but it takes more effort. Onryo on other hand is changed. you can't use any of your 1.0 Onryo experience or 2.0 Onryo experience to win. She's m1 killer in normal maps and almost free win in muti-floor indoor maps.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693035#Comment_3693035
I had a feeling it wouldn’t be either to be honest. I was happier we were getting close to OG sadako.
being closer has only been made her weaker. I personally don't enjoy going against current sadako or 1.0 Sadako. only 2.0 version was interesting to play against as survivor for me and interesting to play as.
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@Blueberry said:
I used to main her after she had been buffed, she was solid and competitive. Now she’s trash and unviable unless you’re just playing against bad or low mmr survivors that don’t know what they’re doing. Really hope they aren’t leaving her in this pitiful state or all her reworks were a waste of time.
it has been months with no changes. I have already accepted her current state as final state until new information is given. she is really unfun to play right now.
@MechWarrior3 said:
She’s good against people who don’t shut off TVs. (Newbs) it’s easier than ever now for a survivor to shut down her TVs and cleanse with their one second interaction.
Her condemn is suppose to be a slowdown however it’s ineffective against most teams due to the counter being so easy for them.
She’s definitely weaker for sure. This current version just isn’t clicking.I was one of the first players to say that this version will not succeed. everyone else just told me that this version was good. healthy direction. I just don't see it.
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@StarstruckFrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692197#Comment_3692197
trickster already has good 4vs1 pressure. His main event is an extreme integral part of his map pressure because it allows him to slug survivors and get muti-downs. By slugging survivors and getting muti-down at key opportune moments,
4v1 pressure that only exists if survivors make the mistake of grouping up and going down near each other is not 4v1 pressure. What you are describing is slug pressure. Unlike killers like nurse, oni in power, blight, etc who actually have 4v1 pressure: trickster cannot start new chases easily. He has to waddle around the map to find people, which gives survivors plenty of opportunities to get to safety or just hide until he goes away and they can rescue people from the floor. That is not map pressure or 4v1 pressure/
slug pressure is 4vs1 pressure. your affecting multiple survivors at the same time from being able to complete generators. normally slugging is not that good as game-delay mechanic because it takes more time for killer to do isolated chase downs then it does for survivor to pick-up but in trickster's case, his machine gun allows him to get quick downs in ME. he can use ME as game-delay.
Map mobility is ability move around the map and how quickly you begin chases. map mobility /= map pressure but you can use map mobility to generate map pressure in some instances(Like using pop to slowdown gens).
4v1 pressure that only exists if survivors make the mistake of grouping up
A very large portion of killer gameplay is based around survivor making mistakes. what about hook camping? when you hook someone, eventually someone has to come to the save. an unhook means two people nearby. when two people are on the floor simultaneously, you do not need to move around the map. the survivor will come to you.