Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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i think you have good attempt to improve a lot of killers, but some killer are more complex to improve then others. I think what I would do for trapper is allow trapper to throw his traps similar to placing freddy snares. This would allow him to use his power in the chase and make him more engaging to play.
Some killer are simple and just small number change or some add-on changes can improve them. other's need a bit more refinement.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443879#Comment_3443879
The banner is far from worthless. The ability to block windows isn't too useful most of the time. But being able to stop survivors from leaving through the gates is a free kill if you're close enough. The effect even lasts long enough to place down a 2nd guard before the survivor can escape. So not even bodyblocking can save them!
The Knight's Contract is by far Knight's most problematic add-on and just encourages you to face-camp people to death. It needs to be re-worked.
Whereas Call to Arms is amazing and makes Knight better at everything he does. It isn't a "feel good" add-on. It's a straight upgrade that massively boosts his power. And is especially useful on large maps where Knight often struggles.
I don't know what you're talking about with the guards. Both Carnifex & the Assassin can catch people if you create a max-length patrol path and the survivor runs in a straight line. Horsemeat helps definitely, but you can still land hits without it. Making all guards 5% faster would be such a massively over-tuned buff and would easily make Knight one of the most oppressive killers in the game. Most of the value from his guards isn't being able to land hits. Isn't zoning survivors out and herding them where you want them to go.
I'm telling you this as one of the most experienced Knight mains, (Not that there's many of those), that you need to spend more time playing him before you can make judgements about him.
that is wrong. Carnifex can never hit people if a player runs in straight line/routes correctly. Awhile back, I showned some math that proves that he can never hit anyone. Assassin also cannot statistically hit anyone that plays survivor correctly at base-kit. He can only hit survivor IF its max patrol path and you have dried horsemeat add-on. This is not guaranteed but it is very close to guaranteed
Now if we talk about this post, it is true that if you do not use Map of the realm, you can statistically run forward in any direction and the Assassin guard & Carnifex will never be able to begin the chase.
I would argue that if your detecting people mid-chase(Excluding Jailer) or getting any hits with any guard without these add-on, you are facing bad survivors that are not playing against the knight properly and do not understand the numbers of these guards.
I think iri banner is a joke meme add-on and is one of add-on that need rework. Knight's Contract can be strong but I think they need remove the whole 'require 4 guards' and just make it work on every guard. Call to arm is not bad add-on but because of statistics on how guards work and the base-kit detection being poor, The other two add-on are superior because of how vital those statistics are. You can run Call to arm+Map of the realm but then you can only Zone survivors using his guards and not get actual hits. The obvious issue is that you can do that without call to arms so there is no point in that add-on if you are not drawing long patrol paths to get hits. Knight issue is that he wants 3 add-on base-kit but can only pick two. The other two are superior.
Making all guards 5% faster would be such a massively over-tuned buff and would easily make Knight one of the most oppressive killers in the game.
I disagree. It would put him exactly where he needs to be. Highly rewarding killer to play when played properly.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443744#Comment_3443744
You can definitely play him without the map if you use Iridescent Banner + Call to Arms for an end-game build. And focus on using your guards for zoning rather than getting into chases. But there's no denying that most of Knight's add-ons are garbage.
iri banner is worthless man. I rather use his iri exposed add-on and 3 gen. call to arm is feels good add-on. Its not really needed but it is decent for drawing trails. The problem is that if you use call to arms, then you need to use dried meat for Assassin to hit people because his base-kit cannot hit anyone that is running forward. As this post explains, if you put a guard directly on top of the survivor, the guard statistically cannot detect you if you run forward in any direction because radius is too small without map of the realm. You have a problem where you need 3 add-on's but can only select two of them.
I still think Knight guards should gain 1-5% increase movement speed based off length of patrol path. the fact you need dried horsemeat to make 1/3 of your guard(Assassin) relevant for hits is silly. What is worse is that Assassin hitting a survivor is not really reliable either. Lots of investment for inconsistent reward.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443861#Comment_3443861
With the new changes 3-gens will be harder to protect even for Skully...since BHVR seems to ignore Gen Speed Perks, tool boxes and BNPs....
We will see three gens fly even faster than ever before.
something tells me that dev's will buff gen speed perks more. I think Thalita Lyra perk which is called friendly competition that increases repair speed by 5% for 45/60/75 second will get buffed to 6% with no duration similar to Deja Vu.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/377638/when-is-the-skull-merchant-rework
No a Freddy level rework SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN....look at Freddy and Slinger they are the laughing stocks of the Killer roster...Trapper is more feared than them combined
yeah.. freddy and deathslinger reworks... ouch. there is no reworks. Learn to play issue with 3 gens.
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I use map of of the realm+dried horse meat every match on him. it sucks that only assassin can counter hold-w with dried horse meat. I think carnifex should also be able to counter hold-w and get hits. Map of the realm is pretty essential for him. Knight is almost unplayable in my opinion without the map.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443486#Comment_3443486
And hearin lies the problem. Basically nurse and blight didn't care anyway. These 2 killers should basically be ignored when looking at balance concerns affecting killers as a whole because they don't play by the same rules as everyone else.
it still works against them because it put their power on cooldown. Your analytic on both perks is brilliant. I understand these analytic which is why I still use DH.in all honesty, i think that survivor get too much of speed boost from health-states and the killer have too high cooldown on their attacks. M1 basic killer should not be this badly disadvantage towards second-chance mechanics. Second chance should help the survivor. Not auto-win the game for them.
I hope BVHR continues to lower speed of health-states and further decreases attack cooldown of basic m1 killers while lowering impact of STBFL as a perk for m1 killers. I think a good target for them is to take 1.25 second speed boost and 2.25 second hit recovery with 2% on STBFL instead of 5% per stack.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438470#Comment_3438470
Ghostface needs to be toned down if anything. He shouldn't have an addon that makes stalking 20% faster.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9TYNLQJYB7HE/image.png
That's not what a brown addon should look like.
that used to be his iri add-on. it was 40% faster when leaning but -20% when not leaning. they made leaning slower but normal stalking faster. the only change i want for GF is ability to hit a survivor without losing all stalk progress. The cooldown changes are very nice though. sadly survivor plays always complain when the killer gets improved.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443558#Comment_3443558
It's tough. I agree that it makes for boring gameplay, but it's tough to space out gens without making maps too big.
i think dev should consider inventing a boon perk that allows you to link 2 generators. When repairing linked generator. you repair another generator 0.30/0.35/0.40 c/s. The generator being repaired is paused. This would allow survivor teleport generator progression and prevent killer from proxy camping generators that are too close to each other.
In total, it would take 225 seconds to repair a generator as a solo survivor. 112 seconds with two people and 75 seconds with 3 people.
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@jesterkind said:
Half of Kindred should be basekit, pretty unambiguously. The survivor aura half absolutely should be made basekit to better prop up solo players without giving SWF anything extra.
The killer aura half, though, would be too strong as a basekit thing, and honestly kind of unnecessary once the anti-camp change goes through. That part being on the perk is 100% reasonable, I think.
I would go step further and just make give global aura reading to survivors at all times. Empathy already does this but only when injured. Just make it work on healthy and injured. Kindred is limited to hooks only. I don't see why everyone BVHR is scared for solo survivor to just be at similar level to SWF.
Do they think SWF is broken or something? They could always improve killers and balance around SWF. Vice versa, they could also globally weaken survivor if survivor is indeed too strong. I think survivor and killer as a whole is pretty balanced, but I think a lot of killer powers could be a bit more... challenging. You know, more satisfying to use. DBD goal should be to make survivor fun to play and killer fun to play. I imagine survivor's fun factor would skyrocket for soloq if they implemented aura reading for teammates.
Killer could be very fun too in this environment if they put some effort and make every killer feel good to play vs SWF but this would be a more long-term goal.
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@FrostySeal said:
< New Asymmetrical multiplayer game comes out
< Wowzers this game is so awesome and cool! I betcha this will finally be the game that kills DBD!
< One month passes and the player base for said game drops by 90%
< Second month hits and the game is completely dead and deserted.
It happened to VHS, it happened to home sweet home, and it happened to last year. This game will be no different.
those asymmetric games did not follow dbd formula. TCM is following DBD formula. It has windows in the form of cracks on the walls which can create infinities. It has pallets in the form of doors where if you slam a door onto the killer, you can stun them and drop them on the floor. Leatherface can break the doors and pre-drop pallet locations aka breakable walls. The game has decisive strike in form of bones that stun killer. It also has lockers in form of fountain wells that you drop from to get away from killer. The game does not contain generators, but you could argue that their version of generators is more interactive. You pick-lock doors which is killer version of pallets for survivor and then you perform an interaction to unlock exit which is close to doing a generator.
The locks and victim objective is extremely fast but that is similar how dbd started with old 60 second gens. On top of that, there is perks for victim perks and family perks. TCM is closest game to read DBD 2. It takes a lot of DBD mechanics and arguably improves a lot of them. If the game got live serviced for 5 years and made bunch of new killers, survivor perks, 20+ maps. that is as close as you get to DBD 2.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443598#Comment_3443598
that would make the perk insanely strong
The perk used to work like that on PTB. It was 3 protection hit or 3 unhooks. perhaps the perk could be 4 protection hit or 4 unhooks.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443467#Comment_3443467
It would be nice to increase the protection hit range from 10m to 12m
Or make this perk flash when in range of protection hit
maybe make perk work on unhooks though they need to be careful to not buff this perk too much that it is in every game.
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a perk might be invented for gate regression. With good values such as gates regression 50/75/100%(0.5 c/s, 0.75 c/s and 100 c/s). Remember me could be a strong game-delay perk. It would be funny if all regression perks so bad that late-game gate regression becomes meta game-delay.
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if texas massacre was not about texas massacre and it was just called survival massacre where they could invent any killer. that gameplay loop is danger to dbd. that is first asymmetric game that can threaten and compete with dbd. I think the downfall of that game is narrow scope. That game will die because of lack of content since it only has leatherface's license. BVHR is kinda lucky. If the dev of that game expanded the game to invent its own killers, that game can potentially replace dbd if not careful.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442155#Comment_3442155
agree with gift of pain being better than thana and even getting a sloppy butcher effect...yeah about gave up on trying to make dying light work it isnt worth the bad effect
Dying light needs all of its negatives removed. the immunity to slowdown for obesssion, the faster healing and immunity to gaining tokens when hooking obsession. Until all those negatives are removed, the perk functionally gives no advantage. the time you add to gens saved by faster healing. Thana needs revert. gift of pain is too inconsistent and the reward is pretty low considering it only debuff 1 survivor out of 4 potencial survivors that can work on gens while the dying light and thana affected the entire team. Gift of pain would be good if it worked on every single hook like pop goes weasel but its scourge perk so that will never happen. I tried running all 3 of them 1 build with leverage. no value.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
The only issue I have with it is it working through floors. Now until we get more info (that's if the Devs will even give us precise details) a Killer could be punished for "camping" if they are on another floor within that range while chasing a Survivor. I have seen some hooks spawn within some nasty jungle gyms that a good survivor could loop the killer around or even the Killer Shack with open windows and a pallet.....
Now again we don't don't know how "slow" the timer builds while a survivor is within range and we will have to see but as the Devs have described it now it can be weponized by both Killer and Survivors..... Survivors could force a unhook on Killers that don't camp or a Killer will allow the unhook and just down the Survivor again.
my only concern 16 meters work through floors. I agree with your concern.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442476#Comment_3442476
Well then they need to change perk's description. Because it says this perk will be activated when you are injured. It included both of effects.
So it bugged on PTB or they just explained perk wrong.
maybe they explained perk wrong. you likely get endurance whenever you heal someone from dying->injured or healthy but 3% haste only works when injured and does not work when exhausted. perhaps tooltip is suppose to be reflecting that.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442233#Comment_3442233
For endurance value from Made for This, you need to heal someone whenever you are injured. So healing someone with For the People will activate Made for This because you are losing health state but you won't get endurance effect because you were healthy whenever you healed other survivor.
For endurance effect, you need to heal someone when you are also injured. So this combo can't be used.
I believe two perks do synergize. It worked on PTB. FTP injures you first then gives health-state. It is pretty strong in clutch situations, particular ones that when someone is slugged on floor and your trying to pick them up without dying yourself. If slugging ever becomes more common then this effect will really help survivors if the killer camps slugs.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441861#Comment_3441861
You're missing my point a little- it's a bad idea to pick one set of players to balance for, period. It doesn't matter which one you pick, there will be serious and unavoidable consequences for the other sets of players.
What you have to do is balance for all of them at once, which is especially relevant for Sadako. Personally speaking I'm not convinced the lullaby really is that important for lower tier players, but if it is, then she has to be balanced around that while also improving her against stronger survivors. That's simply how balance works.
i don't think that is possible simultaneously. I think a character that is upscale up in power will always affect the weaker survivor players first before affects the stronger players.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441798#Comment_3441798
Because you need newer and less skilled players to stick around for the longevity of the game. Only cater to those with thousands of hours, and you'll steadily lose players as the ones you have naturally drift away and newer ones are turned off by the balancing.
Also, because the lesser skilled players are still players, and their fun matters as much as top players?
Which is why it's a sticky subject. You have to change Sadako in a way that works for both sets of players.
killer becomes insufferable against strong survivors when balanced around low-medium level. Its that type of balancing that can make dbd not fun for killer.
@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441798#Comment_3441798
What I mean is you should buff aspects of the character that let good players express their skill, subtle improvements to chase, etc. Like adding the brown addons that buff the intermittent invis to Sadakos basekit. Newbies barely look at the killer, so weird mindgames that they help with won't make a difference. But good players would be able to take advantage of it. That's the ideal at least.
But the truth is, some killers are just noobstompers. Still a good idea to smooth out the problems they have at top level play, without buffing the things newer players struggle with (like stealth)
you mean old newspaper and rekiro watch? Sure but any buff you give to killer makes killer stronger at low-level first before it buffs killer at high-level. currently ringing noise is lullaby and it is directional so those add-on are not that good if the player understand how to read volume noises. Its similar to spirit's phase-walk. you will only buff killer at low-level where people do not understand how to use volume while very top-level is unaffected. I think you need disable lullaby first before you could buff her chase.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441800#Comment_3441800
I honestly can't decide if you are trolling or serious, and this kinda scares me.
Non the less, i think that pellet RNG would be healthy for the game, the early game shouldn't just be a mechanical run from all known pallet drops to the next, seasoned with some unreasonable greeding in between until the killer can get finally a hit.
dead serious. I generally greed pallet just enough that the killer wastes most amount of time possible while not giving the killer a free hit on loops. I have to make mistake to get hit by killer in most cases. Your post seem to just be complaining that your getting outplayed by people above your skill-level. MMR is not strict enough for you face 4 really strong survivors at looping. you only face 1 or 2 survivors at most. Its only if they remove MMR buffer do you face 3-4 strong survivors.
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@Witchubtet said:
I agree with you. I feel like pallets should be reduced but like 15 - 20 percent and need to be highly randomized. Make it so you gotta guess where the best loop is. I also truly think shack should have a small area around it where pallets don’t spawn. Having shack with pallets on either side makes shack a perfect god sized loop.
I memorize just about every single pallet location in the game. random rng pallet spawns is unfun for survivor. if you make pallets rng, then your forcing me to use window of opportunity to remove rng pallet spawns. its not survivor fault that the pallet loops are not balanced for killer to hits. for my personal skill-level as survivor, The killer has to break about half the map in term of pallets before they down me but then again, very experienced killer are unlikely to commit to me because chasing strong link over weak link is not smart play In my opinion.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440651#Comment_3440651
You can't ignore mediocre and bad survivors when balancing because they make up the majority of the playerbase. If a killer was obliterating newer players like there was no tomorrow, but sucked in high MMR, that killer should still be looked at. A good example is Freddy. Right now, he owns newer players. But is awful vs good players. If we just buff his numbers, he'll own newer players even harder. He needs big changes because of this, not just buffs. Some killers are just not very well designed.
why? The stronger players cannot become worse players. the worse player can get better at the game. do you think it is ok for the killer to get forced losses because their kit is highly limited to balance out bad players? this kinda what your saying.
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@Seraphor said:
Thanatophobia would have been fine being nerfed to 4% per survivor for 16% total. Would have accounted for the shadowbuff caused by gen time increases, and would still be more effective than it is now.
I wish they revert thanatophobia to its original perk. 4% healing decrease and 4% for generators per injured survivor up to 16%. I kinda miss using the perk as killer.
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@Gandor said:
I don't think survivors should be able to repair pallets and killer to destroy undropped pallets. It creates too many issues (and pallets are not created equal - so it would be nightmare to balance)
i do not see a problem with a perk like that for survivor if the perk is limited to 1 pallet per trial. at most 4 survivor can add 4 additional pallets even if the perk instantly re-build the pallet in like 5 seconds. I do think though that they might need to re-balance god-pallets though to not spend as much time breaking them as less safe pallets. Like should shack pallet and pallets like Badham's basement pallet really be 2.34 seconds? I don't think these pallet are equal to less safe pallets. ultra-safe pallets that completely block your way should be like half break time like 1.25 second to break. The perk re-build pallet is not main issue. it is the fact god pallets are not balanced for 95% of the killer cast.
The killer version of breaking pallet likely would not break pallets but instead block them for rest of trial. I suggested once upon time that Claustrophobia/Cruel limits blocks all pallets in addition to windows in 16 meter radius every time a generator is completed for the entire trial.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440150#Comment_3440150
Yeah, some players suggest removing her lullaby entirely, but that would actually make her deceptively strong. It's not like Wraith where she has a lengthy/slow uncloak. She'd just show up, and get free hits. Constantly, with almost no counterplay since she's relatively quiet too.
The problem with giving her a global lullaby is that she'd curbstomp noobs even harder than she already does. Keep in mind she has pretty high killrate already. But, if she we keep her lullaby, her stealth remains worthless against decent survivors. It's a bit of a dilemma.
Keep in mind she has pretty high killrate already. But, if she we keep her lullaby, her stealth remains worthless against decent survivors. It's a bit of a dilemma.
here is an idea. how about avoid balancing killers around survivors that play the game poorly? On the bright side, if Sadako kill-rate goes down, maybe BVHR will do something positive for killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It sounds like there are some things you're missing on Ghostface.
You actually can't body block a Ghostface if his power is off cooldown. His model doesn't have collision when he's stalking. Just tap M2 to phase through a would-be body blocker.
Yes, there are some situations where you have to hit someone you have at +75%. But it's rare for that situation to come up and for your power to be on a full cooldown at the same time. Duck behind something and lean to stalk them the rest of the way if you have to engage them.
One of his green add ons immediately recharges his power when you break a pallet. Run that add on.
He's only going to go as far as your M1 killer mechanics take you though. If you aren't solid at basic M1 stuff, Ghostface can be tricky.
the problem is losing a down to m1 stalk reset is difference between winning a match and losing a match. 1 down can make all difference.
I have been almost wanted to make monthly posts to beg BVHR to remove stalk reset m1 removal interaction but every time I have tried to write the post. I immediately clicked off the post comment button.
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@Crazewtboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433008#Comment_3433008
The issue with this though is how much times you waste forcing the pallet down at each loop. If it is one you can't mindgame, you get really screwed because being a 110 speed killer, it allows them an extra loop or so when done correctly. Then in the time you use to break the pallet and catch up, they have time to make it to another loop and repeat the process
what catch-up. your ranged killer. use your range to your advantage. the normal 115% m/s killers need to catch-up into m1 range. huntress has ranged advantage.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435275#Comment_3435275
I have another reason: I think these add-ons also suck and it would be better to replace them with add-ons that do things that are more enjoyable for killer players to use. If you have a reason for why a "mending takes 2 seconds longer" add-on is fun and satisfying for you to use, I will gladly hear it.
"It's not fun" motivates the vast majority of all feedback on this forum.
what's wrong with add-on that increase incapacitated time? did you not like eruption? Is mending time the new target? I believe mending is 12 seconds. The add-on that increases it by 2 second is 14 seconds. Original eruption was 16 seconds. mending add-on is only -2 less seconds then original eruption.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435217#Comment_3435217
The killer spends more time downing the survivor then the survivor does recovering into 2 second pick-up. The action of downing is high time commitment move from the killer. The unbreakable effect effectively add a 5th player to the match because the survivor team can sit on generators while the pick-up naturally happens as there is no need for teamwork
If the Killer picks up the Survivor and Hooks them, it circumvents this effect. One of the things I take issue with slugging is that it's functionally Hooking a Survivor in terms of available Survivor agency.
The other concern of unbreakable is that the survivor can play passively while the killer gets punished for playing passively due to self-pick ups.
I don't want that either, I want a self-pickup to be the worst option available such that it's only a good option when none are left.
it prevents 3 man and 4 man slugging completely. that is kinda powerful for base-kit mechanic that I feel like survivor should need equip a perk for that to be the case.
Base game mechanics are there to shape the core of the game. Repairing generators isn't a Perk, nor is being able to drop a Pallet.
One of aspect that BVHR wants to move away from is killer being forced to run generator-delay type perks.
And I do agree with that. I'd like to see Survivors early-game weakened, or at very least distributed across other periods of the Trial.
Sure but first down bleed out is 4 minutes long. Its impractical from time stand-point to camp.
It is impractical to camp, that's why you proxy-camp and zone, because you know where the Survivor is, and how to leverage your pathing well. It's the same thing that people are going to complain about if the current anti-camp measures come into play, because it sure as heck won't make it hard to tunnel.
There is definitely perks for this. Soulguard grants endurence when you are picked up. This is little bit like Off the record for slugging(but duration is only 8 seconds) and We're gonna live forever grants endurance for picking up the survivor from dying state which is similar to Borrow time. I think this is looking way too much in the future though.
At the very least it acts as precursor discussion to chew through, once the issues arise.
And I do agree with that. I'd like to see Survivors early-game weakened, or at very least distributed across other periods of the Trial.
I do not think this is necessary feasible. I do not want to go into explicit details in regards to pallets for why they create a bad early game but I think that killer by design is meant to be backfoot in DBD. I don't really see that changing completely. early games will likely be more balanced when loops/chases are more equal in control for killer to shorten chases as survivors are to extend the chase. I think this is more of map balance/loop design problem in my opinion.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434517#Comment_3434517
If you let the Killer spec into bleedout kills, then you would absolutely need to introduce a way for Survivors to get themselves up in some manner. Because now the Killer can "camp" a slugged survivor till bleedout and you have the same camping issues you see now.
For all intents and purposes, being slugged is effectively being on Hook. A Survivor is out of play with regards to gen-repair, and needs another Survivor to get them out of that state. The Killer gains time as they don't waste time carrying a Survivor to Hook.
The killer spends more time downing the survivor then the survivor does recovering into 2 second pick-up. The action of downing is high time commitment move from the killer. The unbreakable effect effectively add a 5th player to the match because the survivor team can sit on generators while the pick-up naturally happens as there is no need for teamwork. The other concern of unbreakable is that the survivor can play passively while the killer gets punished for playing passively due to self-pick ups. it prevents 3 man and 4 man slugging completely. that is kinda powerful for base-kit mechanic that I feel like survivor should need equip a perk for that to be the case.
The Killer gains time as they don't waste time carrying a Survivor to Hook
One of aspect that BVHR wants to move away from is killer being forced to run generator-delay type perks. This is why there was an experimental PTB where they decreased healing speed to add more base-kit and attempted to weaken all forms of regression perks. I do think this is good direction but I think their approach was a bit too forceful in terms of fun factor. In order to move away from forced generator-delay type perks, the killer need to be able to generate pressure naturally and generate slowdown naturally. 24 second of healing was admittedly a bit too brutal. Slugging is a form that allows killer to put pressure on survivors. The slowdown is more subtle as it does not increase the time spending m1 by increasing healing time or increasing generator time but it add secondary objective for the survivor by getting survivors off generators to pick-up teammates.
now the Killer can "camp" a slugged survivor till bleedout and you have the same camping issues you see now.
Sure but first down bleed out is 4 minutes long. Its impractical from time stand-point to camp. You could argue that the killer could down the survivor two times where bleed out timer is reduced to 1:30 or less then camp but at that point, the killer is attempting to reap benefits from his previous downs. I thought BVHR was a fine with facecamping since they allowed that with hooks but as of recent dev stream, they are implemented anti-face camping mechanics. So maybe in future, they might need implement anti-face camping slug mechanics assuming this type of gameplay becomes prominent. There is definitely perks for this. Soulguard grants endurence when you are picked up. This is little bit like Off the record for slugging(but duration is only 8 seconds) and We're gonna live forever grants endurance for picking up the survivor from dying state which is similar to Borrow time. I think this is looking way too much in the future though.
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@Mushmallow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434560#Comment_3434560
If someone is clearly waiting nearby to get an unhook, it is stupid to leave. It is even stupider to expect or force the killer to leave by punishing them with a free self-unhook if they don’t play stupid on purpose.
Hook trading is not a concern. BHVR’s explicit statement is that they have an issue when the unhook can be prevented. That is not the same as hook trading. If a killer is further than 10m away, they cannot prevent the unhook. They can force a hook trade. Going down after unhooking them is not a problem. Not being able to unhook them at all is.
according to how BVHR described the system, they stated that if a survivor is near a hooked survivor the system pauses. Your not getting punished for a survivor being nearby. your getting punished for hooking a survivor and standing still directly near the hook from very first second in attempts to force second hook states and third hook states. The whole concept of losing hook-states over-time is suppose to happen organically by the survivor misplaying by being late to get the unhook but camping has evolved to an entire strategy for killer to exploit and force skip hook-states/force kills. Their balance towards camping is following their scourage hook: monstrous shrine perk where the perk speeds up hook regression when your far away but does not activate when the killer is nearby.
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@Mushmallow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434017#Comment_3434017
- Doesn’t matter. Chasing is a misplay. But not chasing now punishes you thanks to this system exploit possibility.
- You aren’t denied making a save if the killer is that far away. Hook trading is not denying a save. Bubba is a solo exception problem specifically because of his power.
- Because it punishes the situational strategy being used in the exact situations it’s meant to be used and do well in, not just the “reckless camp literally any timel idiocy?
- If you actually watch the stream, you’d notice devs say they aren’t targeting proxycamping, only facecamping.
Do a favor and watch the stream before you waste time on another reply.
You cannot be chasing someone properly when your camping. Your either chasing or camping. This changes punishes facecamping.
If your getting interupted from performing the unhook action, you are facecamping. Hook trading is face camping. a big reason why they are choosing 16 meter is ranged killers and while you can still be interrupted, you should be able to side-step projectile from that distance.
you are correct they are not targeting proxy camping. you can still stand 32 meters away with make your choice and directly return the hook after the unhook has been performed. they are punishing stand-still at the hook and hook-grabbing gameplay.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434528#Comment_3434528
Yes really.
A killer who feels like they're in control of the game is less likely to feel like they need to engage in those behaviors. Most killers know that those tactics aren't fun to face, so they won't use them unless they need to or survivors drop a perfect opportunity into their laps. But if the gens start spiraling out of control, then they'll reach for those strats because they don't want to get stomped. Regression helps them stay in control.
The only real exception to this is Deadlock, which does its thing no matter what.
I disagree. Most killer that are in the mindset that they are going lose will start tunneling and camping right from the start the game. The meta perks are often used along side the meta strategies of the game. A killer that runs Deadlock+Pain res+Jolt can camp, tunnel and slug right from get go while using those perks. You can reap double benefits by using the perks and applying the winning formula.
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@FFirebrandd said:
You are wrong.
Fact of the matter is that usually regression perks being strong is healthy for the game. For one very simple reason.
They make killers less likely to tunnel, camp, and slug.
not really? the killer tunnel, camp and slug is killer decision. you can equip jolt and do all those 3 actions. The change with pain res recently has made killers more campy because if your first hook is a pain res hook, you can purposely camp hooks because 2nd hook is another 25% from hook trade. even more annoying when the perk is paired with deadlock that passively blocks gens.
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I am still confused to why the game needs a counter to excessive slugging. The counter to slugging is being good at the chase. Long chases results in slow downs with no potencial to snowball two simultaneously downs. Picking up survivors from dying state has similar risks to unhooking survivors. The risk is technically lower because at least you cannot get hook grabbed when healing another survivor off dying state.
Downing survivors should be the most rewarding action that the killer can do in a match. With 30.8 seconds of recovery and 4 minute bleed outs, the killer has to down survivors 5 times before there is any risk of dying. 5x4 is 20 downs. that is a lot of downs. doing 12 hooks which is 12 downs is challenging enough. 20 downs is almost double amount downs required for bleed out slugging to be threat. I still think survivor should have some minor regression(10-15%) bleed out penalty for picking up downed survivors in dying state. It would give killer more gameplay options for killer to win the match. They'd still need to get a lot of downs for any reward to come out of it. Only then can i see Base-kit unbreakable being base-mechanic.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432781#Comment_3432781
-"As someone who still plays Billy and consistently kills with him I have to disagree with him being trash"
Can you compete with him and be on par with very good Blights? No you can't.
-"His chainsaw autolock is one of the strongest in the game, almost ensuring you are getting a down when people are moving between pallets. "
I'm guessing you don't know that it doesn't work on a downward slope. Ever have someone crouch at the shack pallet and you can't connect with them?
-"People pre-drop pallets to avoid being hit by the chainsaw, and the map traversal alone makes him insane."
"Sure, he is nowhere near as great as he was, but he definitely isn't trash. "
I dont think you really understand how he used to be able to traverse maps. Lerry's didnt exist and you could go from point A to point B with maybe only the occasional obstacle from a single direction.
Just watch a very strong Blight and you'll feel like youre playing a doctor by comparison.
he can still traverse maps better any other killer in the game. his mobility still exceed blight because it has no real internal cooldown. From point A to point B, Its straight up the best mobility in the game. the big nerf to billy are his chase potencial because of removal of charge-time add-ons. they reduced his chase potencial to basic m1 killer gameplay vs competent survivors. Only time will tell if billy ever get buffed properly but given that fact that they wanted to nerf doom engraving and yellow engraving in the PTB. Likely no real buffs will show up. Till then I'll just be playing chase bubba in memory of billy.
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incapacitated does not need rework. Eruption was survivor's complaining and getting their way on the perk. Incapatiated effect is an debuff version of generator blocking. It reduces repair speed by 100% and healing by 100% by banning you from healing and repairing for limited amount of time.
@jesterkind said:
Anything that allows survivors to work on generators while Incapacitated, even at a reduced rate, is a giant nerf to the Twins that they don't deserve. It'd be catastrophic for a survivor to be able to hold their power hostage and still contribute to the generator repair, it's already pretty bad even knowing that survivor can't be doing gens while holding Victor.
The fact of the matter is, Incapacitated should never have been put on a perk that every killer can use to begin with. It is only appropriate on Twins and on Pinhead, even the Huntress addon is a bad use of it; either the number's high enough for it to be broken or it's low enough to be useless, there's no middle ground. I think it's most useful to remember Incapacitated is not an effect that Twins use, it is The Twins Status Effect, and they also put it on Pinhead because it fit that use case.
The fact of the matter is, Incapacitated should never have been put on a perk that every killer can use to begin with.
why? 100% repair speed and 100% healing loss of healing is only as good as duration you give it. Eruption used to be 16 seconds. Nobody used the perk at 16 seconds until they buffed it. the idea that they removed an entire effect from the perk is silly. They need put back the incapacitated effect. Currently they have 10 second of aura reading and it is complete garbage. Just change it back to incapacitated. 10 seconds of slowdown is still 10 second of slowdown.
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@Mushmallow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433951#Comment_3433951
16m isn’t facecamping.
depends killer. facecamping is normally classed for when you are able to interrupt the unhook with an attack. for most m1 killers, this is around 6 meters but the system needs to accommodate all others killers which of course is ranged killers. If radius was 6 meters, you could still throw a hatchet and facecamp. the extra 10 meters is for ranged killer like corrupt puke plague, pyramid head and trickster camping.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433925#Comment_3433925
Getting away from the hook isn't enough, with the 16m range you also need to stay away from the hook.
16 meters is not that big in normal maps. my major concern with system is that it might work on double floors. for example you could be playing elementary school or gideon meat packing plant and the game might class you as facecamping despite fact that you are on different floor. So I assume they thought of this and hopefully it only works on same floor where the survivor has direct line of sight, similar to Rebbeca Reassurance perk.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433888#Comment_3433888
The method exists because of the 16m range and because the bar still fills when another Survivor is nearby. How fast the bar fills only decides how effective the method is. The possiblity, no matter how small, of a bar-assisted self-unhook against a not-face camping Killer, doesn't need to and shouldn't exist, but with this system it does.
it has to be pretty fast because hook timer are 60 seconds. You need to kobe from a hook before 60 seconds otherwise mechanic is failure because if the killer is still getting 2nd stages by sitting on hook then the system ultimately is ineffective at being anti-camping. If I had to take a guess, It would likely be 15 seconds. 15 second is plenty to get away from the hook. If you haven't went away from hook by 15 second then you probably are just face-camping which system is trying discourage.
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@Crazewtboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431960#Comment_3431960
I've played a decent amount of games lately. Some as Huntress and some against her when I play survivor. Every experience I've had has been that Huntress struggles to throw over most walls at loops due to their height, forcing them to follow round till the pallet is dropped. Some of those games (as survivor) we ended up losing in the end anyway because the Huntress was dead accurate with her shots, but the loop walls prevented her ability. I mentioned in my original post why I suggested it. Read it again if you missed that part :)
you don't throw over loops as huntress. you break pallets and throw between loops. there are still loops you can throw over though.
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monstrous shrine is a perk. it increases the speed that survivor die at by 20%(120%). anti-face camping changes are somewhat necessary. Its kinda been problem in the game for long time that has went unaddressed.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
The anti-camping solution seems like a step in the right direction, but it doesn't even remotely affect the Killer that dominates the camping meta in the first place: Cannibal.
Why? Because The Cannibal has a little ability to simply continue swinging his chainsaw after hitting the Survivor off of the hook. So he'll still be camping, just with an extra step.
But what can be done to fix this? Well, this is an absolutely necessary change:
- The Cannibal will now automatically go into chainsaw sweep cooldown upon hitting a Survivor affected by the Endurance status effect.
This change would allow Cannibal to have his strengths, but now actually makes it so that his camping prowess with the new mechanic is not as good as it will be. He'll need to actually take a lot more time to chase you than simply sweeping his chainsaw and tearing through your health states after unhooking.
no the change is huge nerf to leatherface because what makes Leatherface facecamping problematic is the fact his instant down straight up prevent you from unhooking. Leatherface will need to be mindful of where he hooks because if he tries facecamp and he purposely let survivor unhook, he has to rev his chainsaw and make sure that his double hit endurance does not lead into window or pallet. This is also very bad for killer like Myer's 99 EV2, Pinky finger clown and Billy, etc. Pushing people into 2nd stage will very difficult for killer. Some of these killer greatly benefit from this type of gameplay.
What this changes does not address is proxy camping. Many killer in the game excel at proxy camping so killer like Hag will still deploy 10 traps around hook. Trickster will still hold his knives from 16 meters away as he pebbles any survivor trying to get unhooks. Same with huntress. You will still see blatant camping. The only killer who will be able to properly facecamp post-changes will be pyramid head who does not have hooks and instead has cages which do not follow the hook rules therefore if you want to play face-camp killer, you can do so by playing Pyramid head and holding your M2 ability while being near a cage.
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BVHR is going figure out why bloodlust is terrible mechanic because what happen on many maps is that bloodlusting is completely useless. Like Just look at Gideon's meat packing plant. you can give me exposed on an m1 killer like trapper and it won't change how broken the pallets on that map are. the pallets are so safe that they're bloodlust 3 infinities. Like, you cannot bloodlust those pallets.
On flip-side, weaker pallets will just be an instant down because killer won't down you. they'll just purposely bloodlust 2 you then down you because loop is so unsafe that the killer can down you whenever they want to down you making those loops pointless. an example is Badham car loops that spawn just outside school on front and right side.
Bloodlust as mechanic unequally punishes unsafe loops but does nothing to towards safe loops. It is not good mechanic. What killer needs is ABILITY to get hits on every loop by winning 50/50's on pallet slides/pallet bluffs. Currently, your odds of getting hits against good survivor is close to zero on like 70% of the loops and you get nearly guaranteed hits on weaker loops because even if you fail 50/50's, you will eventually win loop just by bloodlust itself regardless of how bad you play.
This is why what they need to do with pallets in this game is following:
1) Increase killer lunge distance so that more pallets are possible to win 50/50 mindgames. I recommend 50% though numbers can vary.
2) Decrease size of long-walls on loops that are too long for killer to do 50/50 mindgame on( E.G long-wall single pallet tile and the classic jungle gym long-walls need to be shorten)
3) They need invent a new type of pallet in the game called Light-wood pallet. This pallet has 50% less durability then normal pallet. It breaks 50% faster. This pallet should be used in places where the pallet blocks the killer from advancing forward. An example where this pallet be used is Shack pallet. Its impossible mindgame the pallet and its force break which is bad design since the killer is in a lose/lose. If they break pallet, the survivor gets massive shift-w distance that wastes killer time which translate into poor gen pressure. If they do not break pallet then m1 killer physically cannot down the survivor. So pallet like Badham school, The garden of joy main building right side pallet and a bunch of Gideon's pallets that block your way would be turned into Light-wood pallets. While these pallet would still be detrimental to the killer, they will not waste as much time as normal pallet breaks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431428#Comment_3431428
I like Freddy's mobility more, to be honest. I don't have to commit to it, I can chase while channeling it, fake it, etc. And it's faster, with the tradeoff being the cooldown. People underestimate the 16m non-directional lullaby and dream world tracking. Survivors are highlighted in blue for Freddy. Dredge doesn't have a huge tracking advantage.
To each their own though. I really dislike how Dredge plays. Way too clunky and slow for me. Regardless, neither Freddy or Dredge is hanging with the top dogs.
dredge gains 16 meter killer instinct every time he teleport to a locker and the cooldown for is not high at all. I think he has best tracking in the game in nightfall. This makes a very good tunneler. I believe freddy is 32 meter non-directional lullaby. the freddy lullaby only works on Gidean meat packing plant. On the other maps, the map is more vertical so the 32 meter lullaby still gives decently precise information once you enter their radius. from on paper perpective, Dredge has better stealth and better tracking when nightfall is active.
I think faking freddy power is mostly noob-stomp mechanic. I want to explain how I play against freddy and a lot of weaker killer in dbd. In essence, if the killer power does not punish me enough for doing particular behaviour, I will hard-disrespect the power to the max. What I do against freddy in term of teleporting is that I nearly always stick on generator because I want freddy to commit to teleport on me. Freddy's chase power is so easy to loop that I want to get chased by freddy. Before freddy nerfs, it used to be very threatening for freddy to tp hit you because if you got hit with his forever freddy add-on, you would instantly face a -30% healing penalty from sloppy butcher, jump rope, swing chains and your entire team would lose a total of -7% repair bonus which amounted to a global 24% repair bonus loss. You heavily got punished for attempting to disrespect freddy teleport. WIth current freddy, there is almost no punishment for him hitting you because his dream world has zero 4vs1 impact. As a result, I just disrespect freddy completely and just smash gens. There is no incentive for freddy to chase me because you will be nearly breaking every single safe pallet on the map.
In conclusion I do not think freddy is very good. you can basically give him 100% sleep-time and completely disrespect anything he does and still defeat him. sounds like very weak power.
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he needs revert on his changes. He was alright before his negative changes. The kit is too clunky now. His snares do not feel smooth to use and his entire add-on list does nothing along with his dream world.
@[Deleted User] said:
I was top 50 or something at one point in survivors put into the dream state. I've played a stupid amount of Freddy and still play him quite a bit. I'm currently playing Freddy only from rank 20 to 1 because there's nothing else to do in this game except make up challenges.
He's not that bad. He's not strong, but he's not bottom tier. You have to get really creative with his teleport and mix up 99'ing it and actually sending it. You should be spamming that at a gen if it's not on cooldown. Establish that you're going to fake it every time and then actually send it on the 5th time or whatever. And it has a lot of utility in chase. I get a lot of hits in chase off of teleports or faking the teleport to alter pathing. I wouldn't really change his teleport.
His actual chase power is his issue. It's not strong enough to be a part time ability. Pallets are a throw pick against good players on comms. I know what the data says about dream pallets. I'm saying the data is misleading. You're really limited to just snares. If you start on a map like Cowshed without Red Paintbrush, you might be in for a rough time if you're a good killer and matchmaking randomly worked. BUT, I also get the other side of it. Spamming 3 or 4 snares at a loop is completely braindead and skill-less. It's a problematic power. You pre-drop the pallet to completely counter the snare, and if you don't, it's an automatic hit if Freddy places the snare correctly. There's no skilled interaction happening.
I'd like to see them utilize a power creep mechanic relative to the number of survivors that are asleep. One of the main points in Freddy vs Jason was that Freddy gained power as more people remembered him and feared him. Put the alarm clocks on a cooldown and incentivize Freddy to spread the pressure and utilize the mobility. Let Freddy manipulate the map with different dream objects, some of which are only accessible once everyone is asleep. Or give him a special ability to activate.
I do not see why anyone would play freddy in his current state. your better off playing Dredge who is directly upgrade to freddy. The remnant teleport back is same gimmick as freddy snares where pre-drop is required. Dredge has a lower cooldown teleport and his nightfall is arguably more impactful then dream world because it gives dredge unparalleled tracking. The bad survivors will also make more looping mistakes because they haven't memorized pallet spawns. if only dredge did not have that ambient lullaby, he might be decent stealth killer in nightfall. Oh well.
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I use we'll make it since COH change.
@Sonzaishinai said:
Sadly i am cursed, whenever i run We'll make it everybody runs away from me and doesn't let me heal them
that is fine. it means player does not want healing.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430755#Comment_3430755
You're entitled to your opinion, however if you look at it objectively, it's just a matter of time constraint and certain things being prioritized over other things.
Also Peanits even commented on one thread about Sadako
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9ZMFBLK2GL1Y/peanits.png
The post states that Sadako is believed to be #1 most deadly killer and #4 most deadly killer at 5% MMR. I do not think it is time constraint more so that they think Sadako is strong thus needs no positive changes. Little bit scary for a weak killer to be that good. for me it was most wow moment when I saw that chart. Sadako just put me in complete awe.