DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065241#Comment_3065241
Is this the experiment that is over 4 years old now at this point?
Saving people is part of the game, you don't suddenly get to not count kills because "they could have escaped". If survivors argued that a killer "could have camped all game" and got one kill you would argue that doesn't matter either.
"Saving people is part of the game, you don't suddenly get to not count kills because "they could have escaped""
You are completely missing the point. Three of the survivors could have escaped but instead they went back to try and save the survivor. The point of mentioning the Marth experiment was because they had a rule where the team would just leave if three people could escape and one was on a hook.
Once again the point of the Marth experiment was to show that the game is incredibly survivor favored. Over and over again they proved that they could finish the gens very quickly and almost always leave with 3 or 4 players. If everyone played DBD like that then you would need the devs to implement bots.
Here is video showcasing the survivor experience. What happens? This video demonstrates how maps are too large and that Shift W is a huge problem. It shows that pallets are too close and create an environment that is too safe for good players.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065207#Comment_3065207
The most commong game path is rather
3) The generators are slow and there is lots of camping
How exactly are generators slow with lots of camping? Are the survivors afk? Are they hiding? If a killer camps there is zero pressure on the survivors to stop them from finishing generators.
@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065222#Comment_3065222
At this point the amount of "5 Gen 3 Min 4K" games Tru3 has posted he's just proving the first 3 gens don't mean much at all lol.
If you watch Otz you will often see him 4k vs bad survivors and explain that he only won because he has ~9k hours of experience. This video shows exactly the same. Three of the survivors could have just left the game "marth style" (see the marth experiment if you don't follow that reference) and it would have been a 1k game. Even one of the survivors in the end game chat said the other survivors fed themselves to the killer.
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Zubatlol is one of the original "Billy mains". Let's consider Billy after he lost Flick and compare that to the current billy. Zubat said something to this effect regarding Billy with no Flick : It's usually more efficient to just hit survivors twice with the hammer; however chainsaw hits are way more fun.
Once upon a time I was a Billy main and he was the killer I decided to PIII first.
legacy.pngBilly has had numerous nerfs since 2016.
His addons are completely terrible now.
He has a huge delay when he bumps something (and the collision detection for the saw was changed).
The overheat mechanic ruins trying to use the saw for mobility and allowing you to use it in chases.
The scream when a saw sprint is initiated eliminates "mind games" (aside from being really annoying).
Many maps had elements added so that Billy could not "sprint" easily from one side to the other. On this note : indoor maps were an artificial way to make both Billy and Nurse weaker without directly adjusting their kit(Lerys was introduced at a time when Billy and Nurse were the top killers).
Billy used to have better steering in 2016 without addons while using controller than he does now with addons while using the mouse. This fact is just truly sad to read much less even try playing Billy now if you remember how he used to be.
The volume of the saw was never reduced for anyone playing this killer - despite numerous requests.
It's laughable that LF has an easier time hitting with his saw than Billy. Horvath - the developer who made Nurse once commented that if he had been in charge Billy would have been a 110% speed killer. In all honesty LF should probably be a 110% killer but that's a discussion for another topic.
The bottom line is that Billy isn't fun. He has never really had a counter for pallet looping and is even worse at it now than he was in the past.
A part of me thinks : Billy was nerfed because who would buy the inferior LF product when the base model was free and better.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065204#Comment_3065204
When I play dbd I don't suddenly get sad and have no fun when a survivor goes down, in turn I also don't get sad and stop having fun because a generator gets done.
Consider two different game flow paths:
1) There are lots of chases and the generators are slow.
2) The generators are fast and there is lots of camping.
Which path sounds more fun as a survivor?
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065194#Comment_3065194
I honestly wouldn't care, some games I 4K with no gens done, some games I 4K with the exit gates open, people focus far too much on a gen being done honestly.
The outcome of the game in terms of kills/escapes is not a good measuring spot for how much fun you had.
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@Seanzu said:
I always skip to the end of these because he always 4Ks on these matches that he complains about gens being done too fast.
Do you think you would genuinely have had fun if you were playing killer and lost 4 generators after 2:22?
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@t0007319 said:
Jumped on after a long break and every game as survivor has been absolutely abysmal, plus the amount of hackers has somehow greatly increased since I last played.
Any similar games out there you guys have played and would recommend or upcoming games to look forward to?
Also since we’re recommending stuff and I imagine we’re fans of horrors, any decent new horror movies or shows?
By the end of this year there will be several new 4v1 games : VHS, Ghostbusters, and the Leatherface game are to be released soon™. The Evil dead game is already out but is Epic exclusive.
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Legion got buffs that didn't really increase the killer's power - only made him more annoying to play against because it makes the game last longer.
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@Sluzzy said:
Three times out of the few matches played today I have actually lost due to one perk.
A reminder that NOED is a perk that rewards failure. The survivors did well completing the objective against impossible and unbearable odds only for someone to lose because the game gives the killer a petty kill.
I wouldn't mind this perk if two conditions were true;
1) The survivor objective was much easier to complete.
2) Survivor had a similar perk.
It's not a good feeling to lose when the opponent played poorly but got rewarded for it. When the state of the game incredibly favors the killer, NOED needs a change now.
If NOED bothers you that much then have each survivor break one totem so the killer cannot use it.
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This happens on all maps as far as I am aware.
It can happen on any map where there is a generator that can be repaired by 4 survivors.
The zombie becomes completely unresponsive and stops functioning until killed.
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@Viamont said:
Genrushing = tunneling.
Simple as that, and i know a lot of survivors ate going to come out of the Woods trying to defend genrush, but st it's core it's exactly the same thing as tunneling, efectively push your objective yo complete it on the smallest amount of time needed. With that said survivors have no right to complain about tunneling until genrushing it's adreased AND punished. It's funny survivors are perfectly fine with being allowed to rush 2/3 gens in less than 5 minutes, but hell forbide the killer to be just as eficient on the game.
Tunneling spoils ma fun You horrible killer.
Just as much as it ruins a killers fun to get genrushed like crazy, now being forced to be as efective and posible and play perfecto games or be completly abuses on end chat because lol "gg baby killer, uninstall, You suck etc etc".
"It's funny survivors are perfectly fine with being allowed to rush 2/3 gens in less than 5 minutes, but hell forbide the killer to be just as eficient on the game."
When survivors play at peak efficiency they force the killer to do the same. If I lose three generators that means I need to counter with three hook states lost by a single survivor.
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"You on the one hand say facecamping is an automatic L for killers, then you got the other in here saying the top dbd streamers use it as their tactic to get wins. You camping "experts" are all over the place."
Let's define our terms. First I said camping which is completely different than face camping. When someone says Face camping I assume we are talking about a LF who literally stands within 2m of the hook and never moves. It would also refer to the end game where the killer literally has no reason to leave a hooked survivor.
I would define camping as a situation where a killer defends a hook without really leaving to pursue a chase. Usually this is done when a survivor is about to die or about to have a change in hook state. Noteably the killer was usually not there the entire hook state. Camping could also be a situation where a killer stands in a dead zone in front of a hook as some sort of "goalie" where the survivors have to rush into danger to save.
Literally anyone who knows who he is will say that Otz is a respected and talented member of the DBD community. He is the first to admit that he will camp/slug/tunnel to win if he thinks it is necessary. You can find that he does all of those things in his win streaks. He will also use those tactics in random matches where he wants to apply pressure.
But he does not face camp - except in the case of securing one last kill when there is no chance to get another. Since you seem to be confused about the topic I will mention face camping again. Generally speaking it is a guaranteed loss to down one person and stand in front of them until they die - but there are exceptions.
Every now and then when using corrupt you down someone very quickly while corrupt is still active. If you down them near workable generators then you can camp them and apply pressure to those generators. Until corrupt changes the other gens will still be blocked. It is possible for example that you might have an entire minute where only 2 generators can be safely touched. That survivor on the hook will likely hit stage two and the survivors will be very behind. Just so we are perfectly clear : this is a rare event and will no longer be possible next patch.
Until the perk gets changed however it prevents a very powerful situation where corrupt can create a very powerful face camping opportunity. If the survivors rush to complete those two generators they will very likely get the hooked survivor killed as the killer would almost certainly tunnel them out of the game.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064965#Comment_3064965
Literally nothing has changed about it
You're still going to get randomly hit by it in the endgame and be left to die
Did you not see that NOED is getting an insane nerf in that it will show you exactly where the totem is located?
Are you unaware that there are killers that have an effect better than NOED?
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You have nothing to worry about; literally no one is going to use NOED after it gets changed in the upcoming patch.
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@LastShoe said:
All he needs is to bring his flicks back.
Billy needs to be changed back to base kit 2016 Billy before multiple shadow nerfs - but he does not need the ability to flick back. And while we are on the topic Oni should lose flicking too.
@Onyx said:
Literally all Billy need to have changed is make so when overheated, rather than disabling your chainsaw entirely, it makes it so you no longer insta-down people when hitting them with your chainsaw.
why would you use the saw at all if it was not an instant down? You would just swing the hammer. Your post makes no sense from a balance perspective.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063702#Comment_3063702
Those ward addons aren't common either. I have less than 50 of them on my main survivor. My suggestion has a key spawn on the map with no guarantee anyone will ever find it.
Wards are a lot more common than you think. I have over 100 on Michael Myers. They are literally the most valuable item in the tree as it can protect two addons that might require you to spend 50-200k to get another pair.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063667#Comment_3063667
I prefer "Prestige Toll", taxes can actually serve a function while tolls are all about blocking your progress until you pay up.
If you call it an apple or an orange - nobody wants to pay 20k per prestige level.
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Replays would pretty much end cheating.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063678#Comment_3063678
If only those purple and red keys showed up in every blood web. Like I said earlier, I've spent I don't know how many millions of BPs on a single survivor and the one I have spent the most on only has around 50 of each key. If they were more common I would bring a key every match.
There is an addon/offering that let you keep the key despite a bad outcome. You only need 1 key for the 4 man team.
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@akaTheBARON said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063624#Comment_3063624
I agree, having an in-game key spawn wouldn't be a "gimme" for the survivor. I just mean, I don't think it would have a huge enough impact on the game vs how small not having an in-game key is now would even make BHVR consider it considering other things they're trying to implement.
I'm not dumping on it by any means. If they wanted to remove keys from bloodwebs and incorporate them this way, that would be something for sure as they almost serve no purpose now other than aura readings. But at this point, why have three tiers? especially when the red key has 30 base seconds (and like I said, kinda fun to use with certain addons)... but the next tier down, the purple key only has 5? It may as well be a green key... and the green key won't even open the hatch LOL.
Rework em, or get rid of the purple/green keys to make room in the bloodwebs for other (probably useless LOL) items.
if you want a key every game - bring one.
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Nobody wants a 20k prestige tax.
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The devs already said there are too many escapes - so no.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061006#Comment_3061006
It's literally a game of elimination. You got caught and eliminated.
You're not entitled to three hook states, you're not entitled to second chances, and you're not entitled to repair every gen and escape. You get to do that by winning, and getting caught by the killer is not winning.
(and you know what? Killers aren't entitled to kills either. Even when camping, it's possible to make a successful hook rescue, or at the very least a hook trade, which then results in resetting the hook timer giving the team more time to do the gens)
Now I totally get that being caught at the start of the game and eliminated by being camped is more than frustrating, but the fact remains that killers do this for a reason. Camping can be more effective than chasing, due to the nature of survivor sided maps, strong loops, chase perks and second chance perks.
This is not a "weak excuse", it's literally the root of the problem. They need to nerf survivor sided maps, strong loops, chase perks and second chance perks, in order to make 'not camping' the more effective strategy.
Even then, there will still be a place for camping, even if killers have every incentive to never camp a survivor out from the start, there will still be the inevitability of end game camping being an essential strategy, and you cannot make that impossible to do or you're putting killers in a lose-lose situation.
The problem here is using 'camping', a broad term that encompasses many different conditions, purely to described 'getting camped on first hook at 5 gens'. That is most certainly bad sportsmanship and overly frustrating for the survivor. But using it in this way discredits all of the scenarios in which camping is a direct result of survivor behaviours. Survivors running the killer back to the hook, survivors rushing the hook while the killer is hooking, survivors looping a killer around the hook, survivors creating a 3-gen by a hooked survivor, and of course at end game, the killer having no other objectives to defend besides the hook. All of these are absolutely legitimate and fair uses of 'camping', and no measure to prevent 'getting camped on first hook at 5 gens' that inhibits any of these can work.
"You're not entitled to three hook states, you're not entitled to second chances, and you're not entitled to repair every gen and escape. You get to do that by winning, and getting caught by the killer is not winning."
"This is not a "weak excuse", it's literally the root of the problem. They need to nerf survivor sided maps, strong loops, chase perks and second chance perks, in order to make 'not camping' the more effective strategy."
As long as gens are eliminated faster than survivors the only answer will be camping/tunneling/slugging. Killers must camp/tunne;/slug because it is the only viable catch up mechanic.
If DBD made all the maps fair (aka less than 9000m²), made most pallets "unsafe" and generally buffed all the weak killers then you might have a way to win without camping.
If killers could turn completed gens back off they also would have another objective.
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@fogdonkey said:
You gradually get shards as you gain devotion. That's the reward.
No that's the Illusion of a reward
@Babalonkie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062715#Comment_3062715
Nice try.
The shards do not coincide with Devotion number and instead correlate to level. If devotion number just vanished it would not effect shards... ergo, you are wrong.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062693#Comment_3062693
Does not even need to be that high, a +1% per devotion number would be better than nothing (current system).
Giving more BP as a reward for higher devotion does not exactly seem fair as that is more of a have more/win more scenario.
The more fair option would be to do something like each level of devotion = +250k max BP cap. That would mean if you have been playing actively for a while you have a slight convenience advantage.
And before you ask devotion didn't exist until a few years ago (or else people like me who started early on would be like devotion 50+).
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@akaTheBARON said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060396#Comment_3060396
Well if streamers do it, it must be the way to do it right? Also, tunneling/camping IS the easiest strategy, thats why new/bad killers do it. So what if "pros" on stream do it too? They don't just do it at 5 gens. I never said there isn't a time for it. Gens are flying by and you have to put some pressure, tunnel someone out. EGC, camping is the smart play. But the "pros' don't just do it at 5 gens. If the streamers you watch just camp/tunnel right out of the gate, and you're considering them the best DBD streamers then that tells me you simply camp/tunnel as your go-to and don't watch streamers who can actually play the game very well.
And regressing finished gens? So survivors can get back hook states too then or? Nah LOL You just want easy 4Ks, there is no shortage of killers like that. A gen is done, its done. A survivor is dead, they're dead.
I've never been like 'well they successfully finished that gen but it's bull I can't kick it and make it regress."
Also "camping" generators is simply DOING generators. Maybe its both of us don't know what we're talking about though XD
You give killers all the base kit rewards you want, they'll never be happy and will still tunnel/camp cuz its just easier. Same for survivors. They cry about the game being unfair just as much. You can give them all the base kit BT or whatever else. They will still call anything and everything tunneling.
Tell you what, I'll write BHVR an email, and ask them if they can make the game 4 v 2, that way killers can double up making the game twice as easy. Maybe that will be a big enough "reward" for killers to not ever camp/tunnel?
"if streamers do it, it must be the way to do it right?"
This is an illogical statement and I'm not going to address that further. The point is that the very best streamers with tons of game knowledge know how to apply the most pressure when they really want to - and that is through camping/slugging/tunneling. You want to imply that streamers are bad at the game. I am referring to some of the very best most skilled killer streamers with hour counts in the 5k-9k range. None of them are Bad. All of them recognize the power of camping when they need it to win.
You call it low skill when in reality it is the best way to punish the survivors to get off generators. That might sound counter intuitive; If you get off gens early and make a focused 2-3 man unhook then you will safely get that unhook. If you wait until there are 15 seconds left for stage two the killer will wait for that to "punish" the gen rush.
Survivors who cry about camping either do not understand the game well enough to understand why this happens or just get mad that they rush their objective without expecting the killer to do the same.
"You give killers all the base kit rewards you want, they'll never be happy and will still tunnel/camp cuz its just easier"
I can't speak for everyone but what I want is a fair game. Most of the maps are unfair. Most of the pallets are unfair. Playing vs SWF is unfair. Most people I know don't play killer because they can't handle mid tier survivors much less high tier.
Camping happens most often when a killer feels "behind". Chases are too long or gens are too fast at high MMR. It's not fun to watch streamers play killer or play killer yourself when there are two or three hooks when the gens are all finished. The game needs a fundamental timing rework to balance the efficiency of high level play.
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@Villain_on_pc said:
Hillbilly is and will always be one of the most fun killers to play against. It has been 2 years since Hillbilly was nerfed and I'd like to offer some insight on to why no one plays him anymore.
Have you played Billy after his nerf just to stop playing him because he felt "off". Well that's because overheat wasn't what killed Hillbilly. BHVR shadow nerfed him by increasing his collision zone by 30% and completely removing aim dressing from his saw. These shadow nerfs not only made him feel really weird to play but made him extremely difficult. I understand why they removed aim dressing as it made Billy appear to snap to survivors and that made for some not so fair looking hits when combined with even the slightest amount of latency, however, justifying his collision zone increase by adding an addon that no one will use makes no sense.
Lets talk about Billy's learning curve...
For players learning Hillbilly it is incredibly difficult. He is extremely unforgiving and is not worth the effort. I'm not even going to mention how horrible it is to learn him on controller as he is already hard enough. In all honesty, if you are thinking about learning hillbilly, don't. The amount of effort it takes to chainsaw a good survivor is completely outclassed by Blight (who does the exact same things but better). I really hope Billy gets changed in the future atleast give him back his old collision zone and give him addons that are worth running other than engravings/lopro.
I really hope BHVR sees this as this is kind of an outcry from all HillBilly mains who would love to see more people play him other than the people who have put thousands of hours into a killer that has been high skill low reward for a long time.
You forgot that Billy's turning was also reduced. Back in 2016 the turning with the controller was better than it is now with the mouse.
They also increased the delay between using the saw and wanting to switch to the hammer.
The question you need to ask is : why would anyone buy LF when Billy was better and free? Once upon a time the premise of DLC characters was "pay to lose". I have a feeling the accountants said hey why dont you make them OP so people will buy them?
Remember when hag was a complete joke? Nobody played Hag - everyone got her perks through the shrine and ignored her.
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@Marius1234456918 said:
So i watched the stream of Tru3ta1ent today and he was playing a clown match. Gens was flying like almost every time you play low tier killer. After the match he was rewatching the game and realised that they got 4 gens at 2.40 min and 5 gens at 3.40 min. So how in Jesus name is the gen speed nerf only 10sec. If a survivor is solo on a gen thats 10sec more, if they are 2 survivors on the gen its 5 sec and 3.33 sec if there are 3 so it will be still possible to see matches where they did 4 gens in 3min or something. If there is a reason why they wont fix this pls tell me. I mean it is not even possible to hook 12 times in 3min so things like tunneling and camping will be seen way more often if they dont nerf gen speed.
The worst part is that people dont realize the strongest gen defense perks will be at least 50% weaker next patch. Gens are not going to take 50% longer so that means killers lose momentum.
Maps have too many pallets. Maps are too large. Most maps have loops that are way too safe. This last fact has to deal with the fact that most loops are "mini infinites" until you break the pallet. The problem there is that breaking the pallet removes Bloodlust. DBD might be a fair game to M1 killers if bloodlust were only removed by hitting a survivor (even kept active when a chase ended).
Every map needs to be no larger than 9000m². It's just silly how strong shift+w is on large maps. Small maps are fair to the killer because when someone tries to run around they will often run past another survivor during the chase. This does not happen on large maps.
Pallet density needs to be reworked so that there are already natural dead zones with no pallets. Some of the pallets should be pushed to the map edge so you have to run to a potential dead zone to use a pallet.
Meanwhile most of the generators need to be pushed in closer so that the killer can more readily walk to them
Or we can just leave all this alone and everyone will just play Nurse/Blight while ignoring all the other killers.
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@akaTheBARON said:
Camping/tunneling are the lowest common denominator of "strategies" ... and unless the game puts in measures that simply make it not worth it, killers who do those things now, will continue to do so regardless of how the game is made easier. Period.
Give them basekit rewards, they will continue to do so. And... once these rewards are no longer new, they will take getting them for granted, and just find other reasons as to why "this is why killers camp/tunnel" and do just that.
Its people wanting easy kills for the most part, not wanting to learn to loop. Sure, some maps are just ass for some killers being way too big. But tunneling/camping at its core is just people wanting to play the game on easy when looping is too hard. Or they dedicated way too much time on their first chase because their ego made them just HAVE to catch that survivor, and when they did 2-3 were "genrushed" (killers fault when that happens) and now they feel behind. Or they just want to be toxic but I mean... what can you do XD
PS, yes I play killer.
"Camping/tunneling are the lowest common denominator of "strategies"
So why do survivors do it? Why do they camp generators and tunnel them out of the game? Oh right - they do it the same reason killers do. Removing a survivor/generator is a discreet part of your objective that cannot be undone. One real quick way to make killers not camp is to allow them to regress completed generators.
You literally have no idea what you are talking about as the very best DBD streamers slug/tunnel and camp to secure kills to clinch a game.
@EntitySpawn said:
I see so many complaints about tunneling and camping (which is a massively over used term and people scream it even when it's not actually happening)
But you cant expect killers to play in a way that isn't rewarding and all round harder way especially when people are actually playing the game efficiently.
Things like a baby corrupt and a baby Scourage pain so it helps killers at the start and rewards them per hook along side punishments to camping etc. Who go down better
Also maybe if you didnt t-bag or click at the exit because the killer tried to play more fair and didnt get a kill... you're just making them want kills more than hooks and your "fun"
Until the SBMM is changed or killers are rewarded for hooks these playstyles wont go anywhere.
Side note to hookers: if you still try for hooks, well done you! While I dont see you at high mmr I'm glad you still exist ! but dont hinder your fun before ours. You're allowed try to win even through camping (just dont be toxic about it and you'll get a gg regardless from me)
You're incredibly brave for saying this. You're right by the way - killers need base kit rewards for hooking. You know what's funny? You dont get we're gonna live forever, or borrowed time if you slug. Since Pop and Scourge hook pain res are dead - the next patch might go back to a slug meta.
I still say killers should get something like this for basekit : if you are 16m away from a hooked survivor then the generator with the most progress remains blocked to survivors until that survivor dies or is rescued as long as you are 16m away from the hook.
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@Saint_Vicente said:
Got 2k hours and I main whatever, whenever I feel like it...
In this discussion im not talking much about tunneling, just annoyances regarding unhooking.
I think currently, there are various unhooking affecting perks, and other interactions that makes the game unfun, weird and boring.
Im simply going to be naming the things that i believe are the most proplematic. However the suggestions that im giving to (hopefully) fix them may not be definitive.
Id like you to give your own thoughts and adding/changing your own variables, if you think my suggestion causes more proplems and whether you believe you have a better idea.
I would also like to hear if any Behavior representative has something to say on the topic.
Keep the discussion on topic and serious.
1. Unhook grab
Proplem(s):
In a scenario where a weaker killer is standing right in front of the hook, waiting for someone else to unhook the hooked player, the killer may try to grab a survivor to stop the unhooking and then gaining 2 downed/hooked survivors whilest doing basicly nothing.
As for the unhooker, its a rather immersion breaking and unfun to bait out the grab just in order to keep the game going. In solo plays this could add up, because no one knows what everyones intentions are.
Possible fix:
Just remove unhook grabbing, the same thing was done to hatch grabs and it made the game much better.
2. Killer powers near hooks
Proplem(s):
Some killer powers can just outright turn the situation to be more profitable to killers, because of being able to do 2 hits in quick succession, or by exposure(1 hit down).
Killers such as: Cannibal, Huntress, Ghostface(depends), Myers(depends), Clown(addon), Hillbilly, Trapper(depends) and so on. By "depends" I thinks its very situational and random whether they get their power to work.
Possible fix:
What im thinking of is a new status effect, that removes killer powers for the duration. Think could possibly effect all characters or just those with strenghts in unhooking situations.
Demonstation: When within X meters of a hooker survivor, gain the Y status effect. The Y status effect lasts for Z seconds after out of range or unhooked.
3. Basement
Proplem(s):
For the most part I dont have a proplem with the basement EXCEPT for the 1 way in an out staircase. A killer has some area-control and can sandbag the staircase
Possible fix:
A. Give basements 2 ways to go in and out.
B. Remove basements completely and put basement-hooks(quad-hooks) by a landmark(just inside a shack, on top-floor of the coal tower, in the kitchen of hillbillys house, etc)
4. Borrowed time
Proplem(s):
Borrowed time is just a strange perk that only affects the one who is on the hook, but given by the unhooker. Using situational perks to solve serious proplems, just doesnt help.
I feel as if endurance effect should be given by default or MAYBE even make the unhooked unsandbaggable/unhittable for a second so the killer can concentrate on the unhooker.
Possible fix:
Give endurance by default to unhooked(unaffected by borrowed time by any means), and as an possible extra, give the unhooked unsandbaggable/unhittable status effect momentarily.
As for borrowed time...
A. If hit or downed while doing the unhooking, youll still unhook the survivor by force
B. If injured while unhooking a survivor, you gain the endurance effect as unhooker.
There are many more possibilities...
In the latest PTB, they wanted to increase the duration of endurance, but only if the unhooker is using borrowed time, which I feel is ridiculous. What if the one being unhooked has borrowed time to their own endurance effect gets enhanced?
Where's the vote down button?
You missed the boat over and over again. The devs talked about the basement at length in 2016 and the part that makes it scary is that there is one way in.
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You have Patrick to thank for encouraging camping.
We know now that DBD is like hockey and the "goals" are kills. If you dont get kills then you lost.
We have all the other devs to thank for 6 years of progress that keep giving the survivors more/better tools to win the game. Killers feel like they need to camp/tunnel/slug because it is the only way to win.
Otz did it the last time I watched his stream and so does any other big name streamer when they need to apply pressure.
You need to take a minute and look at the game from both sides - not just the Survivor perspective.
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@KateMain86 said:
Map offerings are awesome! Theres some maps I love playing on a lot more than others and if I go awhile without getting them its always good to have a map offering to take me there if I'm wanting to see something different. I only wish they appeared in the blood web more often or maybe an item trade in system where I could trade offerings I never use for them.
The problem is that most of the maps are unfair. There are almost zero fair maps for m1 killers.
Most of the pallets in the game cannot be "mind gamed". They remove any skill potential for the killer unless you can just blink through them or instantly destroy them with your power (Nurse/Blight/Nemesis). Note : this would be different if destroying a pallet or getting hit by one did not remove bloodlust.
If you know how to deal with children and desserts the answer is pretty simple. For kids you tell them one will cut the dessert and the other gets to pick which one they want.
If one team uses a farm map offering let the other side pick which version is selected. This would make offerings very "unfun" for most tilesets. Why is that? Imagine you use an offering for Autohaven Wreckers. The killer will always select Wreckers Yard because it is the smallest and the only fair map out of that tileset. What about Coldwind Farm? The killer will always pick Rancid Abbatoir as it is the smallest map by over 1000m². You would never play Disturbed ward because everyone would pick Father Campbell's chapel.
All of the Indoor maps are pretty dreadful (the only fair indoor map was Hawkins). Many killers have this problem where their game crashes if anyone uses an offering to play on that map. All the indoor maps could be on the same selection - in which case every killer would always pick Midwich.
The pallet system needs a complete rework and 90% of the maps need to be made smaller with fewer pallet spawns.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055554#Comment_3055554
That is the point, swf isnt better than solo because of chasing skill, its because of time efficient from info they have. Which solo always need.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055621#Comment_3055621
There is something you have to understand that once Solo gets buffed to equal to Swf. Kill rate will drop, and killers will get buffed to get back to Devs' preferred kill rate.
By now what most killers want is just want easy match on Solo because Swfs have easy match on Killers. That only make survivors want to play Swf, the only one that hurt after that are Killers.
"what most killers want is just want easy match on Solo because Swfs have easy match on Killers"
What killers want are Fair matches. The rhetoric of buffing killer when solo queue gets addressed is 6 years old.
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@AnnoyingNarrator said:
Picture a horror movie where everyone is in the same call. That is what SWF is.
SWF with Coms is, in my opinion, the single greatest problem in the game because it throws everything off balance.
DBD has a lot of perks that can be broken if timed correctly, but they are limited in effectiveness by that exact same timing. But if you happen to know exactly what the killer is doing at all times, it can be very easy to use these perks to their fullest effect.
As Solo Que, Soul Guard is a perk that will rarely be used. In SWF, it is a very powerful way to deny a down.
Speaking of Perks, SWF can do something so evil and so broken that I consider it to be one of the strongest things survivors can do. They can all play the same character. This makes keeping track of whose who incredibly hard and can easily make it impossible to keep track of which survivor has which perk. Combine this with the aforementioned ability to make certain perks very strong, and you can make the killer have a very, very bad time.
However, it should be noted that not all SWF are like this. In fact, most SWF are just that, friends playing a game together.
This leads us to the reason why SWF is a Deal with the Devil.
On One Hand, players get to play with their friends which greatly increases the amount of enjoyment for many people.
On the Other Hand, the potential to abuse SWF to make the killer's life miserable is now there.
While I don't think that SWF are responsible for all killer's toxic behavior, I do think that it can easy lead to a sort of arms race where killers always bring the strongest stuff because they don't want to have to go up against a fully decked out SWF with a weak build.
SWF, for all of the fun it can give people, completely changes the balance of the game. What is supposed to be four strangers taken from their world and forced to work together despite their differences to escape from an crazed, unstoppable killer turns into four survivors who all have cell phones working to complete some generators in order to escape for a killer that is actually quite stoppable.
SWF breaks the game for killer.
SWF should be limited by : no character/item/perk repeats.
@serpentk1ng said:
The issue is, even a not sweaty tryhard swf is stronger than a group of lone survivors of equal level. Communication absolutely destroys half of the killers' ability to cause pressure. The correct thing for BHVR to do is to buff solo queue to the level of swf information and balance around that. Whether they do that through voice chat or some other method doesn't really matter.
SWF gives too much information - and you want to buff solo queue to have too much information- Right. What does the killer get? How about 8 perks of their choice.
@Adjatha said:
SWF should play against Killer Bots (and killer players who opt-in to SWF mode).
There's no reason why Solo Queue should suffer from the inability to balance killers against 100% solo survivors, which is exactly the problem.
If we're being real then SWF should only play against Blight and Nurse. Bad swfs will play against the bad nurse/blights and the good ones will play against the ultra try hards.
Being serious - there can never be an "opt out" option for SWF. Nobody would ever play against SWF if they had the choice in its current form. What are the benefits?
1) Less XP
2) More frustrating matches
3) People actively trying to make you angry and bully you
-Gee golly where do I sign up!?
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055493#Comment_3055493
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054532#Comment_3054532
Its just the law of spontaneous expertise. Doesn't matter what you do there is someone who can tell you exactly how to do it, how it should have been done etc etc. Everyone is an expert.
My opinion of games like this is they aren't bad games. You still get all the chases, you get a lot of interaction. The obnoxiousness of it can get tiring though as it feels very unthematic, which for me can be underwhelming. So I focus on the positive, which is the sheer amount of interactive gameplay.
I just try and keep a level head and get as many hits and downs as I can. Typically the survivors forgo their objective to such an extent that it works in your advantage, but like anything sometimes you come out on top sometimes not.
I don't really agree that M1 killers aren't viable, they are definitely more easily countered and you can exploit more tools against them but it is possible to wreck even highly coordinated teams with them.
That said... wraith is in one of the weaker spots because he basically has a stealth chase game that isn't really that stealthy and doesn't really help him shut down loops. He's a lil too dependent on mind games and they are becoming less and less viable plays.
"I don't really agree that M1 killers aren't viable"
-Why does no one ever play them in "serious money" tournaments? The answer is because they won't win.
Why would you pick a killer where they can be defeated entirely by the map? Pig, Wraith, Ghostface and a large portion of the killer cast are completely powerless in the face of god pallets as well as many of the main building loops.
This single fact got old years ago and it seems like there is nothing that is going to change it anytime soon.
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@catkillsmouse said:
Fairly hard to change it but I don't think they would have to re-work the entire way things are. Let the killer see people after they hook someone for a few seconds sounds crazy but might stop them from camping.
The easier rework would be : If you are 16m away from a hooked survivor you see any survivor touching a generator and you continue to see them until 4 seconds after they stop touching a generator.
Everyone wants to think of ways to punish the killer for camping. That's just not going to work.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054508#Comment_3054508
I am not being mean, I am being honest.
Is this annoying? Yeah. Could the Wraith player have played better? Yep.
These Survivors aren't even that good. They're meme'ing around.
Part of the reason they are goofing around is because they have 4 torches vs a wraith. Imagine if the game had been 4 medkits vs plague.
At the very least you were not being considerate. Everyone has at some point been floored by a SWF team. The problem isn't that the wraith player was bad. The problem lies in that the devs never nerfed SWF and that the game is unbalanced to M1 killers.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054519#Comment_3054519
I didn't forget to ask.
The intention for this post was to invite people who think camping is a fixable problem to maturely explain how. It was to have, as much as is possible with strangers on the internet, a good faith conversation. There were ideas I read that made me think, "I never thought of that. That's a good point." And others that made me think, "I don't think that idea takes into account X." But still, I do understand their positions a bit better now. Of course, not everyone will share their opinions or like their ideas. Many think there are justifiable reasons to camp, or there aren't any solutions to it even if it's unjustifiable. I understand that and thought it was important to acknowledge that perspective, so I did in my final paragraph. But the purpose was to simply hear from those people who hold that particular opinion.
Camping/Tunneling: Killer :: Gen rush : Survivor
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054508#Comment_3054508
thanks bro, yeah i have 40 second matches as a trapper but sometimes i play like the video shows, its just about the mind being tired and tilted.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054500#Comment_3054500
People be like "if you dont want to deal with x thing use x perk every game" or "hey if they are abusing x map bring the map cancel offering every game"
Hindsight is 20/20 and most people forget about when they watch the video. They also love to sit on their couch and explain to buddies the play they would have called instead on 4th down to score the winning touchdown. Why? Because they know better than the professional athlete.
Anyone who has seriously devoted time to playing killer has at one point played a game like this where you get completely outclassed. But let me tell you a secret Patch : you should probably stop playing wraith forever. Why? M1 killer's are not viable - it's really that simple.
I'm not saying you need to play Nurse or Blight but you should only play one of the top 8 killers. The reality is that about 20/28 killer are not fun unless you get the "perfect storm". Trapper for example can be a lot of fun if you use his best addons and use an offering for a map with grass. He's not even worth playing if the map does not have thick grass.
What are the good killers after Nurse/Blight? Nemesis, Demo, Huntress, Plague, Pyramid Head, and Twins? You might wonder why Demo and Nemesis are on that list - the answer is STBFL. Those two killers will be even more meta after the changes come in next patch. STBFL is a wonderful perk in that it rewards the killer for tunneling.
Anyway- if you want to have fun as killer then you need to play a killer that has a decent base kit. Most of the killers do not. I love to play a game of Michael Myers every now and then but he is hot garbage without either Infinite T3 or the purple tombstone.
Sometimes I do my daily mission challenges with trapper. It can be a fun challenge to try and outsmart/outplay survivors when using no addons.
But for goodness sake if you are playing wraith and you see 4 torches - leave the lobby and find a new one.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
All right, let's try to have a thoughtful, organized, and productive discussion. We all know what camping is, and unless you're a player who likes to camp, it's generally seen as a problem.
Of those people who see it as a problem, there tend to be two camps. One camp is made of people who think, "It sucks, but that's human nature. The devs can't do anything about that." The other is, "The devs can fix it. If they make changes to the game that discourage--or even prevent--camping, camping will be a thing of the past." If you are someone who believes the devs can prevent/dissuade camping, please explain your ideas on how that can be done. I assume there will be more than one answer, since different Killers have different powers (Bubba camping is a different scenario than Trapper camping). So, what are your ideas? Please explain.
***IMPORTANT****
I know there are some of you who have nuanced opinions--or even totally different opinions. Some of you think, "If a person buys a game, they can do whatever they want. Your feelings about that aren't important." Others think, "Grow a thicker skin and move on to the next game." Others think, "It's a valid strategy--even if you don't like it." I understand you have your perspectives. However, the purpose of this thread is to hear from the people who believe the devs can change it to explain how. I'd rather stick to that topic than get lost in a sea of various opinions. Please keep that in mind. This is a very specific thread topic, and I want to understand those people's opinions and ideas.
"All right, let's try to have a thoughtful, organized, and productive discussion. We all know what camping is, and unless you're a player who likes to camp, it's generally seen as a problem."
You forgot to ask : Why does camping happen? The answer is because the survivor objective is much shorter than the killer objective. Generators can be completed in under 3 minutes by the very best survivors in a SWF and in 4 minutes by randoms without voice coms; to win as killer it requires 6-8 minutes.
As a survivor you discreetly finish generators (that is to say you finish one before trying to start another). This is the most efficient strategy because a killer cannot "undo" a finished generator. Therefore the killer will be most efficient by eliminating a survivor before attempting to hook anyone else.
If you want camping to change the killer objective needs to change.
Imagine for example if a killer could kick completed generators. A perk like Scourge Hook pain resonance would affect an uncompleted generator but Pop could be used for either.
This would make the killer focused on trying to keep many of the generators unfinished instead of focusing on eliminating one survivor as quickly as possible.
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You know what's really funny? Lag switching is one of those things that dedicated servers were implemented to prevent.
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@Pulsar said:
There were a lot of very poor decisions made by the Wraith player.
Those Survivors weren't very good either, they made a ton of poor plays.
Don't be mean.Let's stop and have a talk about what happens in a match like this.
DBD is a game that deals with frame counting. You might think about it but thats what it really is. Everytime you are doing a mind game or some sneaky movement it is to try and get a frame advantage. The survivors do this by turning on their torch and then performing a 360 to obscure their hitbox.
Anyway - the killer was getting frustrated and made a few mistakes. Then what happens is you make more mistakes than you should because you are a little tilted. In that regard the game is just like golf. DBD is a bit odd in that when you miss by making a mistake you are more likely to make a mistake again by the tiniest margin.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053017#Comment_3053017
Source: Trust me bro
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053044#Comment_3053044
Range/three blink add-ons are dumb and need reworks. Everything else is a non-issue.
The second change, lmao no. Learn to counter the ability itself.
Third change, yeah no. That's literally removing mindgaming from the equation. Each side mindgaming and baiting the other is literally part of that. It is not the catch-22 you misrepresent it as. That is just outright god-awful horrible design.
Nurse already has counterplay.
You can listen to the devs and they will tell you why their stats are bad if you thoroughly understand statistics.
Over a period of 6 years if you bothered to watch their live streams they have been asked multiple times about : do you track X, Y,Z and the answer is almost always : no we don't track that. You probably heard Almo say something to the effect of : I don't know why Freddy is op but I know that he is. He should have asked the streamers. Freddy had a 4% higher kill rate because tinkerer+teleport+gen defense perks allowed him to almost always be able to interrupt survivors more reliably than any other killer.
You can say whatever you like but you will find that the devs either do not understand or consider these questions when they build maps:
1) How long is the killer objective vs the survivor objective? Does this ratio change with SWF? (yes it does tremendously)
2) When do hooks happen? When do generators get completed? Are too many generators getting completed too early for the killer to have fun? Is that possibly why so many killers are camping/tunneling/slugging?
3) What is the frequency of pallet use? How does this change with higher/lower levels of play? What makes for a "fair" pallet?
4) How does map size influence generator completion?
5) Why don't we have a prevention mechanic to make sure that we don't have "stacked tiles"? Scott Jund addressed this issue in his fake patch notes. Extremely obvious examples include : No vault should ever lead directly to a pallet from another loop, no vault should lead directly to a vault from another loop that would allow a "fast vault", and no pallet should be within extreme proximity to another pallet from another loop.
If you really wanted to balance DBD it would be extremely simple. All you have to do is find a way to "standardize" looping time so that bad players loop for X seconds, Good players loop for X+10 to x+20 seconds, and great players loop for X+30 to X+40 seconds.
Bloodlust is an attempt to standardize looping but is overall a complete failure because breaking or being hit by a pallet removes bloodlust. Bloodlust is a failure because it helps you more if you are really good (as well as if you are playing a strong killer) and less if you are not.
The far easier solution is to remove Bloodlust, prevent tile stacking, and increase the survivor collision box to be equal to the killer. This last measure would have the most effect on the very best players and almost no effect on the worst players. It would also help newer players that sometimes play killer and sometimes play survivor. With a larger collision box there would be no need for bloodlust because survivors would not longer be able to go around a loop multiple times with pixel perfect pathing to have a huge advantage over a killer. Most tiles would require the pallet to be used after 1-2 loops.
If this still allowed for too much efficiency you could create a system where survivors who vault/throw too many pallets in proximity of the killer will have a permanent snare effect - let's call it Terror buildup. Every time you vault or throw a pallet in proximity of the killer your terror builds and this creates a snare effect. The effect should be small like 0.25 movement speed but the effect will only reset after you have been unhooked.
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@notJustDante said:
The upcoming 6.1.0 update has some really good changes to the game, I think most players would agree with that, but BHVR did not do anything about camping. I don't judge the devs, it's a big update, they can't change everything at once and I'm sure they know the impact that camping has in the game. What I want is to simply suggest a change that would only have an impact on "unfun" strategies that do not require skill during the match, only a strong build for slowdown and a killer that has a power that takes advantage of camping.
First of all, let's think of the situations where killers end up camping:
1- The killer leaves the hook area after hooking, the survivors take too long to save and in the last few seconds the killer comes back to secure the next stage, as a way to punish the survivors for taking too long;
2- During the endgame, the killer has nowhere else to go, and no other objective to defend, so they end up camping one survivor to secure one or an extra kill;
3- The killer either has a whole strategy with their build to camp all game and maybe still get a 3k, or they camp a survivor for any other personal reasons, even though there are still gens that need to be completed.
Those 3 are the most common situations where camping ends up happening. Situations 1 and 2 are completely understandable, even if some players still think it's "toxic" to do those things, both are valid strategies and there are things that survivors can do to avoid it (well, situation 2 is a little bit harder to avoid or to deal with, but it's not necessarily a problem that should be addressed right now in my opinion).
The big problem here is situation 3. I do know that skilled survivors may be able to deal with the situation, but that does not justify it, because the amount of skill required by the survivor part does not match the amount of skill required by the killer part. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure it's almost impossible to deal with this situation if all of the survivors are playing solo, without communication.
I do not think that this type of strat should be prevented, you should be allowed to play the game the way you enjoy it, but there should be something to discourage it and equal things a little bit.
My suggestion includes numbers that might be shocking for some players, but please keep in mind that the situations where this would affect a killer that is not doing this type should be rare.
The suggestion: Make it so that as soon as the survivor gets hooked, a 20-second timer starts. While inside a 16m range, the timer goes up, from 16m to 24m the timer pauses, and 24m and further the timer goes down (obviously won't go below 0). If that timer reaches 20 seconds, survivors get a huge bonus for gen repairing speeds (I suggest something between a 25% and 50% non-stackable bonus, like I said, shocking numbers) and, if there are any gens still left, non-stackable bonus speed for unhooking actions (+100%). On top of everything, survivors start seeing the killer's aura. The killer should get a visual warning that the mechanic is in use. If the killer leaves and the timer goes down to less than 20 seconds, the mechanic is deactivated. The timer should be able to accumulate up to 25 seconds.
Shocking, I know, but if you really think about it, the only strategy between the common ones that would be affected by this is the number 3. Since the bonuses are non-stackable, survivors wouldn't be able to take better advantage of this with perks and items, but it does help survivors to do something about it. This would also require more skill on the killer part since they would need to learn how to deal with this mechanic.
I do understand this wouldn't solve the problem by 100%. Nurse exists, Deathslinger has the iridescent addon that lets them instadown a survivor if they land a shot from 12m or further, and Hag has Mint Rag which they can use with Make Your Choice... But strategies that work around camping from a distance are more about hook trading than forcing the next stages and preventing rescues, which technically gives more time for survivors to do gens and also more space to deal with whatever that strategy is.
There is also a more uncommon situation, where the killer hooks a survivor right next to a gen that is very close to being done and camps to try to wait for that gen to regress, and I do recognize that this could hurt that strategy, but unless you have perks that increase the regress speed (Call of Brine, the new Overcharge), that strategy can most times be very ineffective, and if you do have those perks, then 20 seconds should be more than enough to make that gen not an immediate threat anymore.
Why does a killer stay on a hook? They get punished for leaving the hook. You get off the hook and they potentially have no one to chase.
If they camp you and no one comes then that represents 1/2 of their objective. Why go for a healthy objective when you have easy prey when someone comes for the rescue?
The more you try and make a stiff punishment the more camping will happen. What you need to do is give the killer a buff when they leave the hooked area. Let's consider two extremes:
1) Imagine if the killer got this "base kit" : If you are more than 16m from a hook then after four seconds you see the auras of anyone repairing a generator while you have someone on a hook. Their aura is visible for four seconds after they stop touching a generator.
2)Imagine a more extreme version for "base kit" (not in conjunction with the other power) : If you hit another survivor they will be exposed if you hit them while another survivor is on a hook more than 16m away.
I'm not saying either of these needs to come to the game but you need to realize that the killer needs base kit buffs to leave a hook. It could be something far more simple like :
When more than 16m from a hook the generator with the most progress becomes blocked indefinitely while that survivor is on a hook (progress meter is locked and does not change). If the affected survivor dies on the hook then the affected generator will be blocked for 90 seconds.
Or we could do something far more simple like make all chases shorter. If killers felt less powerless overall they would not need to resort to hook camping.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Because nurse it the hot topic killer recently I just want to give my opinion on it
I do feel nurse needs some things to make her a bit more balanced. I don't think we should go overboard just something that's makes her a bit more balanced.
1. Make her blinks count as special attacks and not basic ones.
I feel she gets too much use out of exposed perks. Imo a killer that can go through objecs should not have am insta down. It's just not fair. Blight, another s tier killer, doesn't have his attacks as basic and he is doing fine. Why does nurse?
2. Please nerf some of her addon.
Even some experienced killer players and nurse mains agree some of her addons are too much that makes it extremely difficult to deal with. I'm not sure how to nerf them but they definitely needs to be changed. Im not saying make them completely useless but balance them alonge with her bad addons. There needs to be a golden mean for them.
Honestly I feel this is all she needs. She is a unique killer that survivors should change their strategy to counter her but I feel she should be toned downed a bit.
These changes won't possibly make her useless I'm sure. She is still strong but more balanced to deal with.
Nurse has a number of balance problems. She is slightly overpowered when you use a perk like Starstruck and combine that with her insane movement speed. I don't see a problem with making it so you can't use her power with Starstruck. Her blink shouldn't be a "special" attack though because she is literally built to be impossible to chase with "normally".
Change 1:
Many of her addons need to be removed (anything that deals with more distance for a blink or faster blink recovery). In a more fair world we would see the most overpowered and crazy addons on the weakest killers. If nurse's current best addons were turned into a trapper addon we would get something like this : Loose pan (green adddon) - Attempting to disarm a trap without holding an item will trap the survivor as soon as they finish or stop the interaction. Disarming a trap with an item makes the item fall to the floor and causes the trap to be reset. The item can be picked up when the trap is disarmed.
Change 2:
All killers need to have a "damage cooldown effect". In short if a huntress throws a hatchet she gets a 3 second cooldown as if she had use a M1 attack. Perks like STBFL would reduce the animation cooldown. For nurse this means she would wipe her blade and then have fatigue. This would require her to blink for distance to continue a chase. It would make perks like lightweight and Iron Will very strong against her.
Change 3:
Nurse loses the ability to cancel a blink by looking at the floor. If she is on ground level and tries to blink down she will charge in a straight line. This will force a nurse to blink at the correct distance or "pay the price". It will remove her ability to hold the survivor with a "catch 22" tactic. In short by holding a long blink if you run she catches you. If you stop short she cancels the blink and catches you.
This would change the situation so that a survivor has more counterplay. They can read into how long she is charging and play accordingly. Since her blinks will always be uniform there is only a question of how long will she charge. This would make Nurse miss slightly more often than she does currently. It would also raise her skillcap slightly - but I don't see a problem since she is already so much better than all the other killers.
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@SkinnyPringles said:
I was watching streams on the ptb and when Otz was testing Ds on Nurse and it was barely noticable that you used it.
So he made a good suggestion that if Nurse gets stunned by ANY means she losses all her charges this could also go well for Blight.
They catch up WAY to quickly even if they make a mistake.
Also I don't know why Nurse got a buff on her range add ons where it increases her speed of blinking.
The survivors cannot react in any way to dodge her it's basically a gamble if they use range add ons it shouldn't have been a thing to begin with.
"I don't know why Nurse got a buff on her range add ons where it increases her speed of blinking."
I know the answer to your inquiry. When you collect poor data you get a terrible picture from which to draw conclusions. For pretty much Forever the devs have gathered the wrong data. How do I know this? Because I've talked to their "stat guy". I asked them three questions around mid 2018 and from those answers determined the team doesn't have a clue about what they should be looking at.
What type of data should they be collecting? They should look to answer these questions:
1) How long is the killer objective vs the survivor objective? Does this ratio change with SWF? (yes it does tremendously)
2) When do hooks happen? When do generators get completed? Are too many generators getting completed too early for the killer to have fun? Is that possibly why so many killers are camping/tunneling/slugging?
3) What is the frequency of pallet use? How does this change with higher/lower levels of play? What makes for a "fair" pallet?
4) How does map size influence generator completion?
There has never been a data collection of any note where they look at real players playing real games (DBD office members dont count - because they dont play the game at a competent level). They don't look at when hooks happen compared to when generators get completed. Kills is the only metric that matter and has been - forever.
When you look at kills it becomes painfully clear the Nurse is the weakest character - therefore she needed buffs. That's a joke right? No sadly that was the thinking process of the developers when last they adjusted nurse. They gave her incredibly powerful addons that let you blink more distance for less charge time. It will be impossible to have a "fair game" against nurse as long as these addons exist.
We asked if her best two addons were bugged and the devs responded : No we wanted her addons to be like that. Unfortunately that just paints a worse picture.
The biggest problem with nurse is that she is so difficult to use that most people don't even try.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
I think alot of people are over estimating how much time 10 seconds a gen is. I keep see people say it adds about a minute but that only is true if survivors are doing 1 gen at a time. In normal gameplay at the start you have 3 survivors on 3 different gens that pop back to back so really that's 3 gens done in 10 more seconds then normal then you got the last 2 gens are around 10 extra second total.
The killer buffs really aren't that big of a change you can run sbfl and enduring which are bigger increases then the basekit buffs and notice that untell you get around 6 stacks before it really starts to make a difference and with enduring 9/10 the survivor still makes it to a new loop and enduring really didn't help because your now back at square 1 with a fresh loop.
The biggest problem with the killer buffs imo is they are only going to be noticeable on rare occasions. Think about how many times the survivor just made it to the window or pallet, now how many times out of that did you break a pallet or kick a gen? Like 1% most of the times you almost got the hit was because they left a gen and you went straight in to chase or found the out in the open it wasn't because if only it would of taken .2 less of a second to break that pallet I would of gotten the hit
It's much worse than that. Pop right now with 4 kicks gives you 80 seconds. Most of those kicks post patch will be 4-8 seconds. Pop and Scourge allow you to instantly take of 40% of a generator. That means in some cases you have to start completely over.
The reality is that they should have made the first generator +20 seconds. Any generator being done at the same time does not "upscale" after the first one finishes so you basically wasted time. And then the last gen should take +20 seconds.
This whole +10 seconds nonsense is a huge netloss overall if you run strong gen defense perks right now.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It's not an issue.
Then camping/tunneling/slugging isnt an issue either and no steps should be made to adjust those tactics - because the 99% door problem causes those things to happen.
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Camping already has a punishment mechanic - do gens.
If the killer is waiting by a hook to secure a hook stage it very likely means that you took too long working on a generator and should have tried to save sooner.
Remember : Friends before gens.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
Just open the gate yourself.
You seem confused. The issue is not that killers want the survivors to hurry up and leave. They want the survivors to be forced to make a choice.
1) Open the gate so you can leave at at any moment
2) Don't open the gate so you can have as much time possible to make saves.
The reality is that survivors want both these options in a single package with no counterplay:
Leave the door 99% open so it can be opened instantly and there is no consequence or fear that the gate can be "undone".
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The killer plays against 12 perks and only has 4 perks. That's fine as long as no survivor can talk to anyone else. But the reality is that 75% of survivors play in a SWF group (according to the last time the devs graced us with statistics). We also know that plaing in a SWF gives you a 15% higher chance to escape.
To be honest the Killer should have 6 perks base kit if they are going to be so weak.